I'll probably get flamed for this. I can't stand apples. They were so proprietary for so many years. In many ways, the hardware still is. I have always felt that Apple treats its users as idiots. I am smart enough for two mouse buttons, and I think most on slashdot are as well.
One reason Apple is more streamlined than Windows is that it refuses to keep backwards compatability. I'm wondering where all those switching will be when Apple gets up to OS12 or 13.
They can switch. I'll stick with *nix and free updates, and save myself $140 every other year in upgrade costs.
The largest problem with our world today is the extreme religious groups, no matter which bible they use. It's all about control. In Iraq, they're using bombs to make people act in a certain way. In the US, it's the threat of a lawsuit.
I am a Christian. I am a decon in my church. We take communion every week. I also believe in science. So many of the religious right in the US are focused HOW things happened, when they're forgetting that the important thing is WHO did it all.
After a serious review of my hard drive, I can report to the RIAA that I have NO illegally downloaded music on my hard drive either.
Hey, if it works for the justice department....
This isn't FUD. These are comments based on actual expirences.
Where I work, a student managed to get a laminated ID card slipped into the CD slot of a PowerBook. The slot for the CD drive is molded into the case of the powerbook, no tray just a slot. I didn't personally attempt to dig into it, but was told that it had to be taken to an authroized repair center to have the drive replaced, mainly due to the fact that replacement required a total dissembally of the unit.
When I bought an old thinkpad off e-bay, the cd drive went bad a year later. I got a new one off e-bay, and it only took me 15 minutes to replace it.
I'm also not a big believer in extended warrenties, wheather for computers or other appliances. If their product was any good in the first place, it shouldn't require a huge percentage of the selling price for a decent warrenty. I avoid buying from places like Sears that try to force the extended warrenty on you.
I'm not trying to start a flame war, but justifying my original statements.
I don't get it how some people are all for FOSS, but they're willing to choose one of the most proprietary hardware platforms available. Most Mac's I've seen are not made to get into. Even if you can get into it, often the parts are incredibly expensive.
BEFORE YOU FLAME, I know there are exceptions to this. However, you must admit Apple doesn't want you messing with the insides of their machines. Example, iPod with their limited battery life. What if the CD goes bad or gets garbage in it on your powerbook? If the CD goes bad in my ThinkPad, I order one off ebay for $20 and replace it myself. You cannot do this on the Powerbook. Next example, I know a woman who had both PC's and Macs had a lightning strike that took out all her network cards. To replace the NICs on the PC's, $50 and 15 minutes of my time for each machine. For the macs, they had to be driven to the nearest repair center (2 hrs away), and it cost $850 per machine to replace the nics. Next example, try replacing the blown speakers in a iMac, you can't, they're molded into the plastic case.
I'll stick with more open and fixable machines thank you.
I have a Linux Terminal server, the distribution I downloaded from K12LTPS.org. It is awesome. I had a bunch of P266 with Win95 on which I was trying to teach web design. The kids would go to one wrong website, and I would be spending 2 hours cleaning off spyware.
Then I go the idea from a group called HOSEF (at hosef.org), to make the big change. I have 22 clients (P233, 64mb ram) all running off a server, a quad p3 550, 3gb ram (under $500 off ebay, including shipping) like they were new machines. It took my kids literally 5 minutes to make the switch over. They love it. Their files are protected, no popups, no spyware. PLUS, you get free office suite (thanks to Open office) free GUI web development, free ftp, free photo editing, free games (non-violent for schools), free edutainment programs.
I have two certs towards my MCSE, and I would never ever switch back to windows after the productivity I've gained in the classroom environment by making the big switch.
I work with teenagers every day. The ones who are the best programmers I know aren't invovled with sports or AP classes. They live for getting on their computer when they get home. Most don't have jobs. I even knew a few who dropped out, got their GED, just so they could spend school hours programming away.
My comment was not a sweeping assumption of all teens. I know many kids just like you described.
Given two individuals, one in their 30's or 40's, and the other in their late teens. Assume both have the same capacity for abstract thinking. Lock them both in a room for one week with all the necessities, throw in a computer and a programming textbook. I think both would progress at about the same pace.
At this point, I think the only difference would be their past expirences, of which the adult is likely to have more. I personally feel that under these cercumstances, I would have an advantage over the teen because I've dabbled in many different programming languages over the years, and I've encountered a wider variety of technology problems in my 15 years of seriously working with computers than any teen I've ever met. I've worked with many talented teens over the years, and nearly all of them need the added expirence that just comes with years.
I believe (if I remember my human development properly), that once they cross that concrete to abstract threshold, the ability to program in the abstract is there. Wheather that improves with age is a good question. It has been my personal experience that as an adult I am more diciplined about learning programming, yet at the same time, I do not have the vast amounts of free time to dedicate to it like a teen might.
I learned basic programming back in the mid 80's. I learned Pascal in the early 90's in college. I learned Java 3 years ago when going back for my master's degree. I'm also a teacher who has had lots of classes in human development.
I believe any kid can learn basic programming. Any kid who really gets into it could really make some great programs. It isn't until an adolescent develops more abstract thinking that they fully understand all the nuances of programming. I'm sure I'll get blasted by all those who could do all kinds of programming at an early age.
Being a mathematician, I just don't see how anyone can be a decent programmer without the capacity to do upper level math.
I've had much better luck with E-Bay than I've had with Pricewatch. Once you get the feel for reputable vendors on ebay (look for high feedback, positive feed back, reasonable shipping costs, good item description) the prices are always better. I've been had by several vendors on Pricewatch. Some of the things I've gotten have been used, extreme difficulty in returning things, and so on.
What's even better about ebay, once you find a good vendor, you can keep an eye on their other auctions, or just purchase from them directly. One terminal server I purchased for an excellent price. I asked if he had more for that same price, and he sold me several more. He even had memory for 25% of market price for the servers.
Complaining that there aren't enough games for Macs is like purchasing a fuel cell car and complaining that there aren't enough hydrogen stations around.
I agree that this google search is a security problem. You won't find it on my machine. People do need to be aware of what this program can do.
With that said. I'm a web design teacher. I've got four kids in here right now trying to get caught up before quarter grades are due. They're typing up a web page, and cannot remember where they are saving it. One kid tells me he's saved it four times. Problem is, he can't tell where or under what name he saved it (I've serached about a dozen ways, I really don't think he did it). This represents about 20% of my class who cannot grasp the concept of directory structure.
If this is indicitative of the rest of the population, I can see how Google thought this would be a needed product.
I work for a small local consultant. We often get work orders for Wal Mart. They come from a company called NET. Usually the work orders request seemingly simple tasks like "Run patch cable from switch to wireless router". We show up onsite, call NET to let them start our time clock. It takes about 15-20 minutes to find someone who knows what is really going on. Then it takes about another hour or two to figure out the work that really needs to be done. For example, I had to run an 8 ft patch cable, but it took an hour to find the switch, which was hidden in a box mounted to the wall 25 ft off the floor. I had to run the patch cable a little ways down the ceiling support to the wireless router. I couldn't leave until the guys at NET called the Wal Mart home office, and they could ping the wireless unit.
Since I don't work for Wal-Mart, and my butt was the one 25ft up in the air running cable, I would call this outsourcing.
In many businesses, it is a common practice to look at the savings at doing a job in-house, or outsource. Usually, it comes down to weather the employees' time can be spent productively at a task. This seems to be the model implied here by this article.
This model completely falls apart for students. Their main task is to study, and complete the course of study. There are no outsourceing options here. This would be like a programmer trying to outsource an assignment. Why keep the programmer on the payroll if you can get his job done somewhere else.
I think some are missing the point of being a student here. Not everything you learn in school is going to be relevant every minute of every day of your life. Guess what. In the several jobs I hold, I'm assigned to do many things that are not relevant to the overall purpose of my position or my company. The chief idea for a student is that they are able to complete a course of study, reguardless of how relevant they deem the material to be.
I currently work as a teacher (high school and community college), and I'm working on my Master's degree in IT. I hold a unique position to see both sides of the coin at once here.
The US is already a major user of Linux. Pick any major distribution, what language is it in? What country does it originate from?
I think there is just a few faulty assumptions here, as well as some mis-applied logic. For example, "MS is evil" is a subjective opinion, and not really fact. If it wasn't for MS and windows, I don't think computers would be quite as widespread as they are now. "The US will follow the rest of the world", while at times they should be doing what the rest of the world is doing, the US will do what it wants, for better or worse (proof: metric system, Iraq)
I see a lot of ideas being tossed about, however, I don't see many from people who are working in the schools right now.
To begin with, yes, there are some teachers who shouldn't be in the classroom. However, I would say that this number is at worst, the exact same percentage as people in any field. Where I teach, I'd say there are about 3 teachers who should have found a different job a while back, out of a staff of about 75.
Those who want to abolish teachers unions have a point. They do tend to keep those who should go. But without the unions, teachers would be expected to be at every single school event without any extra pay. I've been at schools with bad contract negoations, and teachers were expected to supervise football and basketball games, work ticket booths, work consession stands, and clean up afterwards just to keep their jobs. All this while they're expected to get their master's degrees, keep educated on current trends in education, and in their subject area. What other profession are you expected to get up to your master's degree, but clean tables as well? If it weren't for the unions, it would be worse.
Next comes the pay. Again, with all the education, yet so little compensation. What other profession would tolerate it? People demand qualified teachers, teachers who have degrees in their subject areas, yet get upset at paying for someone who has that level of knowledge.
I'd also like to mention the students. In case any of you aren't around teen-agers on a regular basis, let me share with you. They are not always easy to deal with. I'm not saying all kids are bad. It is a difficult and confusing time in their lives, and this often leads to frustration, and they share this with whoever they come in contact with. It is also a fact of human development that teens concentrate more on themselves than anything else. They expect adults to both understand everything about every aspect of their lives as they see it, while at the same time, they don't wany adults to have anything to do with their lives. Find any human development book that discusses Freud, Piaget, and Erickson and you'll get a better picture.
Finally, there is a general trend in the US to spoil our kids. I think it comes from the depression. People were kids then decided they didn't want their kids to grow up like that, so the baby boomers were treated better than any generation before them. This has mutated into parents blindly backing their children, sometimes in ways that are not int the child's best interest. The most irritating example I run into is the old standby "I don't understand.". I've seen kids successfully pull this with their parents on the simpelest tasks. One student in my algebra class refuses to do any problem that will require him to write down more than one step. The same kids who will play "Prince of Persia" for 5 weeks straight to figure out how to get past a difficult section refuse to take 60 seconds to read a word problem, and possibly another 30 seconds to think about it.
The fault lies everywhere, not with just one group, or one person. Until everyone starts doing their jobs like they should (politicians, teachers, administrators, students, and parents), things are going to continue to go downhill.
Please read before sending flame. If Apple hadn't decided to give up their original operating system for something that people actually write software for, I honestly believe they would be gone by now. I'd be glad to hear a reason that they wouldn't.
As for Sun, I think they have enough smart people to come up with something that will work well, and that people will be willing to buy.
Let me preface by saying MS isn't my favorite company. But "while Apple will continue to do things right"? How right could they have been the first nine times they released an OS, just to totally dump it for an OS that actually had programs written for it?
IMHO, Apple is even more non-compatable than any other OS or hardware platform out there. When your hardware goes bad, you often have little choice than to go to Apple. How many processor choices do you have, Motorola or....?
I just don't agree. Wouldn't people expect the librarians to support any software? Do you know many librarians who could support open source software? I'm sure there are many who read/., but I know they don't work at my local library.
BUT, the idea isn't without merit. I think I might burn a few dozen copies of Knoppix, with the note "Put in cd drive and boot", and slide them into various books in the library.
I've always thought that this should be. Wouldn't it be great if wireless networking were as easy to come by as electricty, but without the wires.
I know it's a little communistic in thinking, but I really believe that to gain true freedom of information, we need to make the information superhighway free to use.
While I know many problems would have to be worked out, like security, but it would change everything. Imagine every student being able to turn in assignments anywhere. Imagine doctors being able to monitor patients real-time, as they were being rushed to the emergency room. Yes it would put the telcos and cable companies in an uproar. But I think that would be the price of progress.
Slashdot Mirror
One reason Apple is more streamlined than Windows is that it refuses to keep backwards compatability. I'm wondering where all those switching will be when Apple gets up to OS12 or 13.
They can switch. I'll stick with *nix and free updates, and save myself $140 every other year in upgrade costs.
I am a Christian. I am a decon in my church. We take communion every week. I also believe in science. So many of the religious right in the US are focused HOW things happened, when they're forgetting that the important thing is WHO did it all.
I second the off the hook suggestion. I do it often myself when I know I'm about to be stuck in the car for a while.
After a serious review of my hard drive, I can report to the RIAA that I have NO illegally downloaded music on my hard drive either. Hey, if it works for the justice department....
Where I work, a student managed to get a laminated ID card slipped into the CD slot of a PowerBook. The slot for the CD drive is molded into the case of the powerbook, no tray just a slot. I didn't personally attempt to dig into it, but was told that it had to be taken to an authroized repair center to have the drive replaced, mainly due to the fact that replacement required a total dissembally of the unit.
When I bought an old thinkpad off e-bay, the cd drive went bad a year later. I got a new one off e-bay, and it only took me 15 minutes to replace it.
I'm also not a big believer in extended warrenties, wheather for computers or other appliances. If their product was any good in the first place, it shouldn't require a huge percentage of the selling price for a decent warrenty. I avoid buying from places like Sears that try to force the extended warrenty on you.
I'm not trying to start a flame war, but justifying my original statements.
BEFORE YOU FLAME, I know there are exceptions to this. However, you must admit Apple doesn't want you messing with the insides of their machines. Example, iPod with their limited battery life. What if the CD goes bad or gets garbage in it on your powerbook? If the CD goes bad in my ThinkPad, I order one off ebay for $20 and replace it myself. You cannot do this on the Powerbook. Next example, I know a woman who had both PC's and Macs had a lightning strike that took out all her network cards. To replace the NICs on the PC's, $50 and 15 minutes of my time for each machine. For the macs, they had to be driven to the nearest repair center (2 hrs away), and it cost $850 per machine to replace the nics. Next example, try replacing the blown speakers in a iMac, you can't, they're molded into the plastic case.
I'll stick with more open and fixable machines thank you.
Or you could just use Linux.
Then I go the idea from a group called HOSEF (at hosef.org), to make the big change. I have 22 clients (P233, 64mb ram) all running off a server, a quad p3 550, 3gb ram (under $500 off ebay, including shipping) like they were new machines. It took my kids literally 5 minutes to make the switch over. They love it. Their files are protected, no popups, no spyware. PLUS, you get free office suite (thanks to Open office) free GUI web development, free ftp, free photo editing, free games (non-violent for schools), free edutainment programs.
I have two certs towards my MCSE, and I would never ever switch back to windows after the productivity I've gained in the classroom environment by making the big switch.
Just like the US president has shown us: if you perform bold and brash enough, often enough, people will believe just about anything you tell them.
I don't really care for this trend at all, with world politics or the recording industry.
I work with teenagers every day. The ones who are the best programmers I know aren't invovled with sports or AP classes. They live for getting on their computer when they get home. Most don't have jobs. I even knew a few who dropped out, got their GED, just so they could spend school hours programming away. My comment was not a sweeping assumption of all teens. I know many kids just like you described.
Given two individuals, one in their 30's or 40's, and the other in their late teens. Assume both have the same capacity for abstract thinking. Lock them both in a room for one week with all the necessities, throw in a computer and a programming textbook. I think both would progress at about the same pace. At this point, I think the only difference would be their past expirences, of which the adult is likely to have more. I personally feel that under these cercumstances, I would have an advantage over the teen because I've dabbled in many different programming languages over the years, and I've encountered a wider variety of technology problems in my 15 years of seriously working with computers than any teen I've ever met. I've worked with many talented teens over the years, and nearly all of them need the added expirence that just comes with years.
I believe (if I remember my human development properly), that once they cross that concrete to abstract threshold, the ability to program in the abstract is there. Wheather that improves with age is a good question. It has been my personal experience that as an adult I am more diciplined about learning programming, yet at the same time, I do not have the vast amounts of free time to dedicate to it like a teen might.
I learned basic programming back in the mid 80's. I learned Pascal in the early 90's in college. I learned Java 3 years ago when going back for my master's degree. I'm also a teacher who has had lots of classes in human development. I believe any kid can learn basic programming. Any kid who really gets into it could really make some great programs. It isn't until an adolescent develops more abstract thinking that they fully understand all the nuances of programming. I'm sure I'll get blasted by all those who could do all kinds of programming at an early age. Being a mathematician, I just don't see how anyone can be a decent programmer without the capacity to do upper level math.
What's even better about ebay, once you find a good vendor, you can keep an eye on their other auctions, or just purchase from them directly. One terminal server I purchased for an excellent price. I asked if he had more for that same price, and he sold me several more. He even had memory for 25% of market price for the servers.
Complaining that there aren't enough games for Macs is like purchasing a fuel cell car and complaining that there aren't enough hydrogen stations around.
With that said. I'm a web design teacher. I've got four kids in here right now trying to get caught up before quarter grades are due. They're typing up a web page, and cannot remember where they are saving it. One kid tells me he's saved it four times. Problem is, he can't tell where or under what name he saved it (I've serached about a dozen ways, I really don't think he did it). This represents about 20% of my class who cannot grasp the concept of directory structure.
If this is indicitative of the rest of the population, I can see how Google thought this would be a needed product.
That's pretty much my answer.
Since I don't work for Wal-Mart, and my butt was the one 25ft up in the air running cable, I would call this outsourcing.
In many businesses, it is a common practice to look at the savings at doing a job in-house, or outsource. Usually, it comes down to weather the employees' time can be spent productively at a task. This seems to be the model implied here by this article. This model completely falls apart for students. Their main task is to study, and complete the course of study. There are no outsourceing options here. This would be like a programmer trying to outsource an assignment. Why keep the programmer on the payroll if you can get his job done somewhere else. I think some are missing the point of being a student here. Not everything you learn in school is going to be relevant every minute of every day of your life. Guess what. In the several jobs I hold, I'm assigned to do many things that are not relevant to the overall purpose of my position or my company. The chief idea for a student is that they are able to complete a course of study, reguardless of how relevant they deem the material to be. I currently work as a teacher (high school and community college), and I'm working on my Master's degree in IT. I hold a unique position to see both sides of the coin at once here.
The US is already a major user of Linux. Pick any major distribution, what language is it in? What country does it originate from?
I think there is just a few faulty assumptions here, as well as some mis-applied logic. For example, "MS is evil" is a subjective opinion, and not really fact. If it wasn't for MS and windows, I don't think computers would be quite as widespread as they are now. "The US will follow the rest of the world", while at times they should be doing what the rest of the world is doing, the US will do what it wants, for better or worse (proof: metric system, Iraq)
To begin with, yes, there are some teachers who shouldn't be in the classroom. However, I would say that this number is at worst, the exact same percentage as people in any field. Where I teach, I'd say there are about 3 teachers who should have found a different job a while back, out of a staff of about 75.
Those who want to abolish teachers unions have a point. They do tend to keep those who should go. But without the unions, teachers would be expected to be at every single school event without any extra pay. I've been at schools with bad contract negoations, and teachers were expected to supervise football and basketball games, work ticket booths, work consession stands, and clean up afterwards just to keep their jobs. All this while they're expected to get their master's degrees, keep educated on current trends in education, and in their subject area. What other profession are you expected to get up to your master's degree, but clean tables as well? If it weren't for the unions, it would be worse.
Next comes the pay. Again, with all the education, yet so little compensation. What other profession would tolerate it? People demand qualified teachers, teachers who have degrees in their subject areas, yet get upset at paying for someone who has that level of knowledge.
I'd also like to mention the students. In case any of you aren't around teen-agers on a regular basis, let me share with you. They are not always easy to deal with. I'm not saying all kids are bad. It is a difficult and confusing time in their lives, and this often leads to frustration, and they share this with whoever they come in contact with. It is also a fact of human development that teens concentrate more on themselves than anything else. They expect adults to both understand everything about every aspect of their lives as they see it, while at the same time, they don't wany adults to have anything to do with their lives. Find any human development book that discusses Freud, Piaget, and Erickson and you'll get a better picture.
Finally, there is a general trend in the US to spoil our kids. I think it comes from the depression. People were kids then decided they didn't want their kids to grow up like that, so the baby boomers were treated better than any generation before them. This has mutated into parents blindly backing their children, sometimes in ways that are not int the child's best interest. The most irritating example I run into is the old standby "I don't understand.". I've seen kids successfully pull this with their parents on the simpelest tasks. One student in my algebra class refuses to do any problem that will require him to write down more than one step. The same kids who will play "Prince of Persia" for 5 weeks straight to figure out how to get past a difficult section refuse to take 60 seconds to read a word problem, and possibly another 30 seconds to think about it.
The fault lies everywhere, not with just one group, or one person. Until everyone starts doing their jobs like they should (politicians, teachers, administrators, students, and parents), things are going to continue to go downhill.
Please read before sending flame. If Apple hadn't decided to give up their original operating system for something that people actually write software for, I honestly believe they would be gone by now. I'd be glad to hear a reason that they wouldn't.
As for Sun, I think they have enough smart people to come up with something that will work well, and that people will be willing to buy.
IMHO, Apple is even more non-compatable than any other OS or hardware platform out there. When your hardware goes bad, you often have little choice than to go to Apple. How many processor choices do you have, Motorola or ....?
I just don't agree. Wouldn't people expect the librarians to support any software? Do you know many librarians who could support open source software? I'm sure there are many who read /., but I know they don't work at my local library.
BUT, the idea isn't without merit. I think I might burn a few dozen copies of Knoppix, with the note "Put in cd drive and boot", and slide them into various books in the library.
I've always thought that this should be. Wouldn't it be great if wireless networking were as easy to come by as electricty, but without the wires.
I know it's a little communistic in thinking, but I really believe that to gain true freedom of information, we need to make the information superhighway free to use.
While I know many problems would have to be worked out, like security, but it would change everything. Imagine every student being able to turn in assignments anywhere. Imagine doctors being able to monitor patients real-time, as they were being rushed to the emergency room. Yes it would put the telcos and cable companies in an uproar. But I think that would be the price of progress.