Yes computers are fully utilized... but there are many reasons why. I think the problem lies in not having a flexible system that is really useful. At the high school i volunteer at, students are allowed to store files on one big share - that is only mac accessible. Ironic isn't it? Now idealy it would be nice if every student had like a slot of storage accessible via computers & internet. Now as far as teachers not knowing how to use the computers... Teachers are often forced to go to intro classes to learn how to use such and such software. The problem is, the software is crap, i will elaborate, and teachers who already know the software are forced to go. An example of crap software is the new attendance and email system set up. The server crash continuesly and sometimes your password works, sometimes it doesn't. Really the problem lies in poorly implented solutions
When i was a lot younger, and nintendo (8bit) was still around, i used to play this game called spiritual warfare, along with some game about noah. It was actually fairly fun, and compared well to other games at the time. One thing that did bother me however was that the game brought in doctrine (stuff not really based on the bible, but rather speculation if u ask me) that drinking was bad... but then this was a kids' game. Anyways, there was this bad game that was coded like shit and was simple. But that applies to secular games as well. Anyevent, if the game is good, ill play it. If u ask me, switchfoot is a good band, but ya, there are others that are basically the backstreet boys, but just singing love songs to jesus.
oye, people are so limitted in thinking.
One of the major things of christianity is that the world of the non-physical is of greater consequence then the pysical. I set forth the following arguments:
Now lets just say everything was handed to mankind on a silver platter, what would happen to us? We would stagnate and never grow (mentally or socially). It is rather human nature to create inbalance (seperation from rich and poor) and to inflict suffering on others to increase one's comfort. Yes this is sad, yes God(s) could step in, but what would be the point? Mankind would again digress and God(s) would find itself stepping in constantly, taking away any purpose to live. Now i know the whole, well God knows what we do before we do it, etc,etc, but that would be good for a whole new thread of discussion. For now i will adress why life _is_ suffering(Budha pointed that out). I know that wasn't a satisfying argument, but lets take another route of reasoning
Suppose there is no higher power, no God(s), then that would mean there is no purpose to life other then to seek pleasure. It also means that those of us that do good deeds for the benefit of the community and not the benefit of ourselves (often intertwined) are fools, and should concentrate on manipulating the system. If this is the case, then mankind is surely doomed, and if not doomed, then this is really sadder then thinking there is a god who just sits back and lets "bad" things happen. The reason for that is at least we can assume there is a purpose for those events if there is a god, if there is not a god, then life just sucks, and has no meaning, and i should just go rape women and kill myself before i get caught (i wouldn't do such a thing).
So while both paths of reasoning end up highlighting that life is suffering, the focus is that there is either a purpose to the suffering, or no purpose at all. We are left with that choice to make, a 50/50 chance because this is out of the realms of science (for what good is science outside the universe). I choose to believe there is a purpose other then satisfying my biological wants and needs, and that the genetics/personality that makes me kind and generous to others is not a flaw.
Viruses are simply encapsulated DNA with simple crap - they don't manufacture anything. Instead they use other cells to manufacture more of themselves. So a Virus for a Virus would mean for every bad virus in your system, you would need one anti manufactured. Anyevent, now if u had engineered bacteria that i guess would be the equivilant of a "honeypot" in that a viral latches on, but the engineered bacteria destroys incomming DNA etc. But then that would mean the bacteria would be very resistant to various forms of genetic therapy. Just imagine what would happen if the bacteria grew out of control (they need a food source), or mutated into something rlly bad. Do i need to elaborate?
Anyways, im more worried about new bacteria that is now resistant to antibacterial soap and such. Many of those strains are friggen hard to kill. Granted i could imagine engineering bacteria to kill this.
I know im just rambling on here, so lemme just sum up what would probably needed to be done to help ensure this new disease fighting bacteria doesn't become our worse nightmare:
Engineered life cycle, ie a counter for how many times the bacteria can reproduce
Possible activating agent? Have these bacteria only work if a certain protein is present, etc
Deactivating agent - simply again, something innate that can be introduced into the blood stream that would cause the bacteria to dismantle itself.
The odds of the bacteria mutating such that the life cycle and the deactivating agent is ignored before the life cycle is expired would hopefully be enough. Then also consider your body's natural immune system,
I have no clue how long it would be before bioengineers can do all this, but it is most exiciting
To be honest, i don't recommend Gentoo for most users, just ones with special needs. For example:
At local high schools there have been major budget cuts, so we need to squeeze out as much as possible from our machines. I have a p3 (with crappy hardware) running apache, mysql, samba dhcp, netboot (for system repairs), proxy + filtering, and some other junk i can't remember. Now i used to have redhat running this server, but it was laggy, so i slapped on gentoo and performance is better - i know cuz i timed the logins, page loads, etc.
Ok story #2
I also used to run www.archspace.org and performance was a serious issue. Using optimization flags significantly increase performance - again i used benchmarks. Optimizations do go a long way on high demand servers - trust me.
With that said, I wouldn't recomend my grandma using gentoo, mainly cuz its not user friendly. Lack of a graphical installer certainly scares people away, along with source installs. SO ya its not meant for most people - but don't go and say something like optmization flags do nada. -march makes a definate impact. Now i don't go messing around with junk like -funroll-loops and other fine detailed things, cuz in those instances, i found little performance was increased. (funroll loops made the program bigger, so bleh).
The other nice thing about gentoo is the minimalistic attitude. THis is a double edged sword. Personally its great, i like to choose what gets installed, "screw xine, i want mplayer dammit!" etc.. Lastly rpms rather suck (yes debian pwnz in this area)
Sweeeeet!!! now web pages can see my desktop and add new icons automatical... o wait, they already can. Does this mean it will be any easier for spyware to move throughout the system? Got to give props to MS for finding out a way to integrate IE into the OS even more. (i didn't think it was possible)
At my mom's school we have 30 computers. 29 run windows 98, 1 runs linux (acts as a server). Our school does not have the funds to upgrade our OS, and if they did have that kind of money, we would ask for new hardware first!. Seriously though, i am out of spare parts - if anything goes wrong on one of the computers, i do not have the parts, or the funds to fix it (not even $5 for a mouse). I seriously doubt the celeron POS could handle xp too well. Anyways, its no suprise, these machines get the job done and then some. At school, when u get new software, u need new books. Yes i know the software may look practically the same, but most students get confused easily. Really what we need is 3 new mice (preferably the ones without the balls... they tend to disapear) a spare hard drive, a spare nic, 128mb dimm, and a ceiling projector (i can dream can't i?).
welll with openc++ there really isnt a new to use boost, but ya you could i suppose. Its really nice since you can actually use C++ code to modify C++ code:-p The end result could be truely amazing. Have openc++ read an xml file describing a database and have it adapt a person's objects to that database and auto resolve all needed functions and handle all the relations. End result - fast development, fewer bugs, major runtime performance increase
i find boost is really ugly... mainly cuz template programming was never meant to be used that way. Now OpenC++ is a very nice project where u can modify/generate code at runtime using relfection like principles. It is very extensible and the limits are far from seen. http://opencxx.sourceforge.net/
better yet, if i found out, i would undoubtadly try to hack it. If it proves too difficult, go low tech, ie tv + vcr + teaddy bear looking at tv. Go out on a lan party while they see me doing homework....
This is a bit different... but at archspace we use a sort of db cache system. It involves many of the same problems, just at a larger scale. We cache the db into mem, generate values based off the db etc. Without getting into too much detail, every object inherits a Store class. When a db related variable is changed it checks if its already appended for update, if not, it puts itself in a update stack (sometimes it is a better idea to divide the update stack by object type because this is obviously a threaded game). Every 5 mins the updates are executed. The parent reminds me a bit of this since its all divided up. (its a tad more complex though)
lets ignore the increase in computational power, MITM attacks require the attacker to _know_ the encryption alogorithm. If [insert your favorite p2p app] supports plugin type encryption modules, a select group could write their own encryption module and keep it in their little circle. This would effectively keep the ISP from MITM (unless the module gets leaked)
Second is the ISP has to recognize that the people are encrypting it, if someone engineered a different handshake protocol, then this could become troublesome for the ISP to MITM.
The MPAA will always go for the biggest targets, but people are dispersing onto smaller, closer knitt communities. I currently use two, one that uses IRC and another that not even google caches. The little groups could easily implement their own encryption methods thus keeping safe from the idiotic MPAA.
Yes.... just tell that to the normal users that simply use their computer for pr0n or for simple searches
Most people dont know where to get software like firefox or spyware removal - let alone even know it exists
Microsoft will either bundle it for free, increasing the value of their OS (again most people don't know about alternatives) or MS will charge for it, making more $$ - in the end, average joe will think MS is their hero for saving them from spyware (o the irony)
Re:So why is Gentoo the right choice for this?
on
Embedded Gentoo?
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Many people make jokes about gentoo and the whole compiling issue. But I myself have used gentoo on servers and there is a significant amount of performance to be gained.
One thing to consider, gentoo does have the capaibility to install from binary packages. I think this system here would simply compile once, and distribute the binary packages so others don't have to compile
Gentoo also only installs what you want (typically anyways), and on an embedded device with limited resources, that is important. I can't tell you how many times other distros automatically installed some package i didn't want, or favored kde over gnome, or vise versa.
I know im going to be called a ricer after this, but Im not. Me and my friends run a multiplayer web based game, and trust me, optimization flags do count. Granted i don't sit around for 5 hours testing every single flag. I typically set the march, -O3 or -O2, and the frame pointer one. I've seen the results first hand, Gentoo itself is not rice - but other people make it into rice.
Maybe its a freudian slip...
Im sure taxing oxygen fits into their plan somewhere
Ok that was an unfair remark, on a more serious note
What about open source p2p clients? How will these be plastered with advertisements?
The other thing is they are baseing this off the same arguments, that p2p is only good for illegal stuff, didn't they already rule that wasn't true?
Yes there could be a third reason, but lets think about this.
When a hurricane comes, you want non-perishable foods. Computer geeks like myself, like poptarts cuz you just open them up and eat em, and those things don't go bad for a while. No need for a microwave or stove, something you would want for soup and such.
SO if a hurricane comes by and wipes out gas & electric and everything is friggen wet, you need something that requires no cooking or heating -> poptarts
Of course 7 fold does seem a bit high
I had a spare p3 box so i now use that as my musc station. I tucked it in an amuar and slapped on the following programs:
mpd (music player deamon)
phpmp - frontend for mpd
apache - to run phpmp
cdmp3 - easily rip to ogg
slap on a 4 line autorun script, stir, and you have a computer that will automatically rip cds upon insertion and eject when done. Use your pda as a remote, or use a script to interface via lirc - with the help of mpc (i only have it so i can flip through the songs on the playlist curenntly:/)
About 2 years ago I was a High School Student, and students were required to take a computer class or take the computer literacy test. The test wasn't just extremely simple (at least for me) but it was also a "take home" test....
I remember seeing a few students helping each other with the test at lunch time. In all reality, the test was a joke, from the test itself, and how it was taken.
Do not expect this new test to be complex, when they say problems they probably mean, the computer isn't turning on, so check the power cable.... but yet even that is beyond some people. - And yes that is true, my mom teaches computers at the high school, and many have the problem.
As a game programmer/designer, I completely understand. You can never make everyone happy, and the masses happen to be n00bs:/
I currently develop http://www.archspace.org/ with some of my other friends and the game is dieing. The game used to have thousands of people but now it seems that is just a memory. Currently we are forced to consider changing the dynamics of the game to make it more "n00b" friendly. Such changes include protection, attack cool down, etc. I fully detest such changes, but it seems we have little option for the game is dieing.
We have tried to avoid making such changes, and added other features to the game... Our last ditch effort will be integrating irc into the game so hoefully the n00bs wont feal so disconnected from the archspace community.
Then this might just simply be the natural life cycle of this game for it is over 4 years, but when I compare to games such as outwars.com (yes i know im biased) I see that www.archspace.org has much more in depth strategy, and yet fewer players. I fear the majority of people don't like games with a little complexity anymore, and simply want it to be mindless:(
Vi is good for coding, but does not show real time design. Dreamweaver lets you modify by code, or by design thus increasing the productivity of the user. Ya sure it may not be 1337 thing to do, but lets face it, if linux is to ever become a desktop power, it needs easy to use applications, Vi is not one of them.
Quanta is nice and is fairly easy to use, if you understand html. But Joe the average user probably does not even know what html stands for, let alone what it looks like. So many times have I told users to right click and view source, and then they type a reply like, "oh wow, thats soo complex." HTML seems to overwhelm the minds of the typical user, thus if this project ever suceeds, it will be a great contribution to linux. - Thats if you dont have to own a version of lindows or jump through some other hoop.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes computers are fully utilized... but there are many reasons why. I think the problem lies in not having a flexible system that is really useful. At the high school i volunteer at, students are allowed to store files on one big share - that is only mac accessible. Ironic isn't it? Now idealy it would be nice if every student had like a slot of storage accessible via computers & internet. Now as far as teachers not knowing how to use the computers... Teachers are often forced to go to intro classes to learn how to use such and such software. The problem is, the software is crap, i will elaborate, and teachers who already know the software are forced to go. An example of crap software is the new attendance and email system set up. The server crash continuesly and sometimes your password works, sometimes it doesn't. Really the problem lies in poorly implented solutions
When i was a lot younger, and nintendo (8bit) was still around, i used to play this game called spiritual warfare, along with some game about noah. It was actually fairly fun, and compared well to other games at the time. One thing that did bother me however was that the game brought in doctrine (stuff not really based on the bible, but rather speculation if u ask me) that drinking was bad... but then this was a kids' game. Anyways, there was this bad game that was coded like shit and was simple. But that applies to secular games as well. Anyevent, if the game is good, ill play it. If u ask me, switchfoot is a good band, but ya, there are others that are basically the backstreet boys, but just singing love songs to jesus.
oye, people are so limitted in thinking.
One of the major things of christianity is that the world of the non-physical is of greater consequence then the pysical. I set forth the following arguments:
Now lets just say everything was handed to mankind on a silver platter, what would happen to us? We would stagnate and never grow (mentally or socially). It is rather human nature to create inbalance (seperation from rich and poor) and to inflict suffering on others to increase one's comfort. Yes this is sad, yes God(s) could step in, but what would be the point? Mankind would again digress and God(s) would find itself stepping in constantly, taking away any purpose to live. Now i know the whole, well God knows what we do before we do it, etc,etc, but that would be good for a whole new thread of discussion. For now i will adress why life _is_ suffering(Budha pointed that out). I know that wasn't a satisfying argument, but lets take another route of reasoning
Suppose there is no higher power, no God(s), then that would mean there is no purpose to life other then to seek pleasure. It also means that those of us that do good deeds for the benefit of the community and not the benefit of ourselves (often intertwined) are fools, and should concentrate on manipulating the system. If this is the case, then mankind is surely doomed, and if not doomed, then this is really sadder then thinking there is a god who just sits back and lets "bad" things happen. The reason for that is at least we can assume there is a purpose for those events if there is a god, if there is not a god, then life just sucks, and has no meaning, and i should just go rape women and kill myself before i get caught (i wouldn't do such a thing).
So while both paths of reasoning end up highlighting that life is suffering, the focus is that there is either a purpose to the suffering, or no purpose at all. We are left with that choice to make, a 50/50 chance because this is out of the realms of science (for what good is science outside the universe). I choose to believe there is a purpose other then satisfying my biological wants and needs, and that the genetics/personality that makes me kind and generous to others is not a flaw.
Here's the flaw with that simple idea:
Viruses are simply encapsulated DNA with simple crap - they don't manufacture anything. Instead they use other cells to manufacture more of themselves. So a Virus for a Virus would mean for every bad virus in your system, you would need one anti manufactured. Anyevent, now if u had engineered bacteria that i guess would be the equivilant of a "honeypot" in that a viral latches on, but the engineered bacteria destroys incomming DNA etc. But then that would mean the bacteria would be very resistant to various forms of genetic therapy. Just imagine what would happen if the bacteria grew out of control (they need a food source), or mutated into something rlly bad. Do i need to elaborate?
Anyways, im more worried about new bacteria that is now resistant to antibacterial soap and such. Many of those strains are friggen hard to kill. Granted i could imagine engineering bacteria to kill this.
I know im just rambling on here, so lemme just sum up what would probably needed to be done to help ensure this new disease fighting bacteria doesn't become our worse nightmare:
Engineered life cycle, ie a counter for how many times the bacteria can reproduce
Possible activating agent? Have these bacteria only work if a certain protein is present, etc
Deactivating agent - simply again, something innate that can be introduced into the blood stream that would cause the bacteria to dismantle itself.
The odds of the bacteria mutating such that the life cycle and the deactivating agent is ignored before the life cycle is expired would hopefully be enough. Then also consider your body's natural immune system,
I have no clue how long it would be before bioengineers can do all this, but it is most exiciting
I dub you Sir Troll.
To be honest, i don't recommend Gentoo for most users, just ones with special needs. For example:
At local high schools there have been major budget cuts, so we need to squeeze out as much as possible from our machines. I have a p3 (with crappy hardware) running apache, mysql, samba dhcp, netboot (for system repairs), proxy + filtering, and some other junk i can't remember. Now i used to have redhat running this server, but it was laggy, so i slapped on gentoo and performance is better - i know cuz i timed the logins, page loads, etc.
Ok story #2
I also used to run www.archspace.org and performance was a serious issue. Using optimization flags significantly increase performance - again i used benchmarks. Optimizations do go a long way on high demand servers - trust me.
With that said, I wouldn't recomend my grandma using gentoo, mainly cuz its not user friendly. Lack of a graphical installer certainly scares people away, along with source installs. SO ya its not meant for most people - but don't go and say something like optmization flags do nada. -march makes a definate impact. Now i don't go messing around with junk like -funroll-loops and other fine detailed things, cuz in those instances, i found little performance was increased. (funroll loops made the program bigger, so bleh).
The other nice thing about gentoo is the minimalistic attitude. THis is a double edged sword. Personally its great, i like to choose what gets installed, "screw xine, i want mplayer dammit!" etc.. Lastly rpms rather suck (yes debian pwnz in this area)
Sweeeeet!!! now web pages can see my desktop and add new icons automatical... o wait, they already can. Does this mean it will be any easier for spyware to move throughout the system? Got to give props to MS for finding out a way to integrate IE into the OS even more. (i didn't think it was possible)
At my mom's school we have 30 computers. 29 run windows 98, 1 runs linux (acts as a server). Our school does not have the funds to upgrade our OS, and if they did have that kind of money, we would ask for new hardware first!. Seriously though, i am out of spare parts - if anything goes wrong on one of the computers, i do not have the parts, or the funds to fix it (not even $5 for a mouse). I seriously doubt the celeron POS could handle xp too well. Anyways, its no suprise, these machines get the job done and then some. At school, when u get new software, u need new books. Yes i know the software may look practically the same, but most students get confused easily. Really what we need is 3 new mice (preferably the ones without the balls... they tend to disapear) a spare hard drive, a spare nic, 128mb dimm, and a ceiling projector (i can dream can't i?).
welll with openc++ there really isnt a new to use boost, but ya you could i suppose. Its really nice since you can actually use C++ code to modify C++ code :-p The end result could be truely amazing. Have openc++ read an xml file describing a database and have it adapt a person's objects to that database and auto resolve all needed functions and handle all the relations. End result - fast development, fewer bugs, major runtime performance increase
i find boost is really ugly... mainly cuz template programming was never meant to be used that way. Now OpenC++ is a very nice project where u can modify/generate code at runtime using relfection like principles. It is very extensible and the limits are far from seen. http://opencxx.sourceforge.net/
better yet, if i found out, i would undoubtadly try to hack it. If it proves too difficult, go low tech, ie tv + vcr + teaddy bear looking at tv. Go out on a lan party while they see me doing homework....
This is a bit different... but at archspace we use a sort of db cache system. It involves many of the same problems, just at a larger scale. We cache the db into mem, generate values based off the db etc. Without getting into too much detail, every object inherits a Store class. When a db related variable is changed it checks if its already appended for update, if not, it puts itself in a update stack (sometimes it is a better idea to divide the update stack by object type because this is obviously a threaded game). Every 5 mins the updates are executed. The parent reminds me a bit of this since its all divided up. (its a tad more complex though)
lets ignore the increase in computational power, MITM attacks require the attacker to _know_ the encryption alogorithm. If [insert your favorite p2p app] supports plugin type encryption modules, a select group could write their own encryption module and keep it in their little circle. This would effectively keep the ISP from MITM (unless the module gets leaked)
Second is the ISP has to recognize that the people are encrypting it, if someone engineered a different handshake protocol, then this could become troublesome for the ISP to MITM.
The MPAA will always go for the biggest targets, but people are dispersing onto smaller, closer knitt communities. I currently use two, one that uses IRC and another that not even google caches. The little groups could easily implement their own encryption methods thus keeping safe from the idiotic MPAA.
Yes.... just tell that to the normal users that simply use their computer for pr0n or for simple searches
Most people dont know where to get software like firefox or spyware removal - let alone even know it exists
Microsoft will either bundle it for free, increasing the value of their OS (again most people don't know about alternatives) or MS will charge for it, making more $$ - in the end, average joe will think MS is their hero for saving them from spyware (o the irony)
Many people make jokes about gentoo and the whole compiling issue. But I myself have used gentoo on servers and there is a significant amount of performance to be gained.
One thing to consider, gentoo does have the capaibility to install from binary packages. I think this system here would simply compile once, and distribute the binary packages so others don't have to compile
Gentoo also only installs what you want (typically anyways), and on an embedded device with limited resources, that is important. I can't tell you how many times other distros automatically installed some package i didn't want, or favored kde over gnome, or vise versa.
I know im going to be called a ricer after this, but Im not. Me and my friends run a multiplayer web based game, and trust me, optimization flags do count. Granted i don't sit around for 5 hours testing every single flag. I typically set the march, -O3 or -O2, and the frame pointer one. I've seen the results first hand, Gentoo itself is not rice - but other people make it into rice.
Next thing you know, going to the bathroom during commercials will be illegal :-P
Maybe its a freudian slip...
Im sure taxing oxygen fits into their plan somewhere
Ok that was an unfair remark, on a more serious note
What about open source p2p clients? How will these be plastered with advertisements?
The other thing is they are baseing this off the same arguments, that p2p is only good for illegal stuff, didn't they already rule that wasn't true?
Yes there could be a third reason, but lets think about this. When a hurricane comes, you want non-perishable foods. Computer geeks like myself, like poptarts cuz you just open them up and eat em, and those things don't go bad for a while. No need for a microwave or stove, something you would want for soup and such. SO if a hurricane comes by and wipes out gas & electric and everything is friggen wet, you need something that requires no cooking or heating -> poptarts Of course 7 fold does seem a bit high
I had a spare p3 box so i now use that as my musc station. I tucked it in an amuar and slapped on the following programs:
mpd (music player deamon)phpmp - frontend for mpd
apache - to run phpmp
cdmp3 - easily rip to ogg
slap on a 4 line autorun script, stir, and you have a computer that will automatically rip cds upon insertion and eject when done. Use your pda as a remote, or use a script to interface via lirc - with the help of mpc (i only have it so i can flip through the songs on the playlist curenntly :/)
ok so its a bit involved, but lots of fun :-P
About 2 years ago I was a High School Student, and students were required to take a computer class or take the computer literacy test. The test wasn't just extremely simple (at least for me) but it was also a "take home" test....
I remember seeing a few students helping each other with the test at lunch time. In all reality, the test was a joke, from the test itself, and how it was taken.
Do not expect this new test to be complex, when they say problems they probably mean, the computer isn't turning on, so check the power cable.... but yet even that is beyond some people. - And yes that is true, my mom teaches computers at the high school, and many have the problem.
As a game programmer/designer, I completely understand. You can never make everyone happy, and the masses happen to be n00bs :/
I currently develop http://www.archspace.org/ with some of my other friends and the game is dieing. The game used to have thousands of people but now it seems that is just a memory. Currently we are forced to consider changing the dynamics of the game to make it more "n00b" friendly. Such changes include protection, attack cool down, etc. I fully detest such changes, but it seems we have little option for the game is dieing.
We have tried to avoid making such changes, and added other features to the game... Our last ditch effort will be integrating irc into the game so hoefully the n00bs wont feal so disconnected from the archspace community.
Then this might just simply be the natural life cycle of this game for it is over 4 years, but when I compare to games such as outwars.com (yes i know im biased) I see that www.archspace.org has much more in depth strategy, and yet fewer players. I fear the majority of people don't like games with a little complexity anymore, and simply want it to be mindless :(
Vi is good for coding, but does not show real time design. Dreamweaver lets you modify by code, or by design thus increasing the productivity of the user. Ya sure it may not be 1337 thing to do, but lets face it, if linux is to ever become a desktop power, it needs easy to use applications, Vi is not one of them. Quanta is nice and is fairly easy to use, if you understand html. But Joe the average user probably does not even know what html stands for, let alone what it looks like. So many times have I told users to right click and view source, and then they type a reply like, "oh wow, thats soo complex." HTML seems to overwhelm the minds of the typical user, thus if this project ever suceeds, it will be a great contribution to linux. - Thats if you dont have to own a version of lindows or jump through some other hoop.