or they would wait for us to mature as a species (i.e. grow out of our current selfish greed-driven, xenophobic, belligerent ways) and then make open contact with us.
That is if you assume all life evolves the same way and undergoes the same probable events to come to a common endresult.
Imagine a square world, the entire conceptualization ability of creatures living on a square world would differ so greatly they might be unable to grasp our sphere shaped one and the implications with al the results.
Their biology, mathematics and all that would differ: they wouldn't have radiants, they wouldn't use degrees but will have a more firm understanding and derrived knowledge about squares. They won't really know Pi as they might have a hard time conceptualizing circles or spheres.
Events creating our culture, would have a entire different timeline as well; they might not have the same symbols, ideals, social constructs, "moralities", art or any of that.
Now, imagine then, to come to a planet, and observe a society, which takes its own references and mental constructs for granted, but for the onlooker, its alien. It's horribly abstract to grasp, and quasi impossible to trace back all those habits and structures which have evolved over the years.
The same way you find a "redneck" a "lower form of human", they might consider it otherwise. Take this thought-experiment; in a place where space is scarce, he who lives in the open might be considered elite. In the same way, you might end up with a preconcept of creatures who are codependant and the ones being independant are considered king. What you find "disgusting" or "lower value" about a redneck is just cultural and is based on your frame of reference, conditioning and what you consider "wealth" or "health". To a species, alien to our, these nuances might be completely lost. Maybe they greet kings by anal probing them, as they can afford to be gay and do not require to fornicate to maintain their reproduction as they can afford some alternative means which might be considered more fashionable or they communicate through anal glands and feel frustrated humans are retartedly hysterical and fart (=screaming) uncontrollably when they try to engage into conversation.
I think it's an impossible task to conceptualize the unknown with all its probabilities.
So, why then, don't we think out some learning phases we need to build a really good AI and stepwise implement them as capcha's?
Ofcourse they will be cracked eventually, so why not use the challenge constructively?
Each time a new captcha algorithm is cracked, we could use a next phase and end up with a true AI, in a collaborated effort with "the evil crackers". Each time utilizing an aspect of "human intelligence" which we cannot teach a computer yet, and have someone desperate solve a captcha challenge, solving the problem of emulating a cognitive ability, one at the time?
without forcing the people to buy a 3D acelerator card (thing that is kinda impossible to do on most laptops)
Who forced you to buy a more 3D oriented graphics-card?
These days you can pick your system oriented to your usage, if you want to play alot of games, do alot of encoding or work alot with media, you'll get a more advanced graphicscard and are willing to make a bigger investment in that. If you don't, you're perfectly fine with an integrated graphicscard. The choice is there, and it's to be made by you. You're not "forced".
Why not just do a software mode driver for em?
What would software be able to do, which a 3D graphics card is pushed for to do? If you're going to emulated your 3D operations you otherwise have a dedicated chip for, on which they compare the performance on frames rendered? I believe directX allow transparant use of "software"/"hardware" acceleration.
You could read more up on it in wikipedia. It sounds silly to implement another redundant driver to get the same or even wors results.
What's up with the black interfaces?
It reminds me to this cellphone I bought, it was all "web 2.0". The interface was black/grey/orange. It made me feel depressed just using it even though it had pretty dropdown shadows. Gah, I threw that thing out within the week. What's so "cool" about black interfaces?
I like the highlighting and compact info displayed in google, this site is lacking this, and hiding data behind fancy 2.0 collapsed menu's. Added to that, on my widescreen laptop I only see 5 results at a time. Thats incredibly insufficient if you want to quickly filter ALOT of data. It wont scratch my searching itch. Nice try, but not really.
Monty Python is stupid. Only someone with a 2-digit IQ could relate to that kind of "humor". Which is the wrong word because there's nothing funny about it.
It takes 2 digits to "relate" to it, one additional digit to "get" it.
you'd see local infrastructure long before any serious tourism and surveys long before investments in local infrastructure... We're just monkeys so they don't feel the need to hide, wouldn't you expect them to have built a nice resort for their tourists?
Well, you have the ancient towns "visited by gods" or even run by them if you can believe certain archeologists (like Inca and Aztec golden cities).
Surely there would be at least one of them to ignore the "do not feed the animals/do not knock on the glass" signs
Sounds like some might've crossed "that fine line", if you take Nephilim as partial fact.
since when are tourists the modest kind?
Yea, those damn kids with graffiti everywhere! Nazca lines. Some literally seem to display "monkeys live here, don't bother."
While wanting to help your son in his curiousity, I think you shouldn't guide him too much but provide help when he gets stuck or something he tries to do doesn't work.
For me personally, I learned programming by experimenting, doing, my curiousity and drive to do something on a PC often brought me into different fields of programming. It's the curiousity and that geeky drive that made me want to discover more. Often, when I found a good resource on how to do a particular task, it bored me as the challenge got lost. The same goes with having a peer with "all the answers", it makes you shut off your own creative process.
Programming is to me exploration and experimentation, building on past "discoveries" and solutions you've thought up. If you'd want his curiousity sparked, allow him to be creative, think out new things to push himself further and constantly feeling a sense of realisation or achievement. Something that is "your own".
Wherever that's on Linux, some flashmovie, a "hello world"-movie, for some a HTML-page, a clever JavaScript, it doesn't matter.
I wasn't really aware of datamining until a lecture not too long ago, given by a handful of enthousiasts and I was sold; just possible implementations and new approuches to the way we approach data is just mindblowing and is just so freaking cool.
The subject seems soo specific yet its implemenation in our large databases becomes more important and relevant.
Just because you can produce a working program doesn't mean you understand the concept, outsourced or not.
Yes, agreed. But there's a difference between logical reasoning and understanding and actual implementation.
Basically you're saying, in this context; "I understand the logical approach. So there's no need for me to put time in implementing it. A monkey without any sense of logic could produce a program with the same output."
So you'd like someone, who you value "unable to understand the deeper underlaying logic", to write your program representing the way you understood the problem and how it could be solved?
It's to me also a very troubling progress; people being trained to become programmers or who will have to program, but already,before being skilled enough or having any experience, have the attitude "oh, I can outsource it!". Once those end up in the industry, what are those worth? "I can't be bothered with it. Let them outsource it"... And everyone throws their arms in the ari "oh noes, were are our jobs going?"
Having done alot of projects "in the real world", it's rarely who put the project together who are the ones brainstorming how to make it fit more logcally without breaking the design. Those "finger in air"-documents, created by those with a simular attitude, without practical "hands on" knowledge *think* it's all fitting as a glove. But once you try to implement it you're bumping into alot of surprices and burning money with heaps. Ideally someone with alot of practical knowledge should lead these sorts of projects just for this reason. But where are you at when you're even not willing to gather a bit of experience, because it seems "unnecessary"? It's a combination of experience and skill (ability to logically understand the whole), to verify your analysis into practice, link back and evolve in your skillsets that help you to be better at what you do.
I've stood at both sides in projects, and it's also not as straightforwards to come up with something that works perfectly. It all might be very logical, it's not definite and bringing it into being, you always have a surprice here and there.
There's never perfection and you never know enough, each day I still learn and finetune my skills. If you're starting to outsource your potential even before you can assign yourself a certain title, it's a bit of a dubious thing to do.
It reminds me of this engineer, taking huge pride in a job well done after his equations and calculations were all perfectly done, with added whitenoise buffers calculated to the point he felt he could be pleased with himself and nothing could go wrong. The moment his creation came into being, he spent weeks finding the "sweetspot" to make it work. His clash with the "pure theory and logic" and the actual world were a tough lesson.
I was 15, playing it like mad, when I grew tired of it I discovered the development tools on the CD and just went crazy with it. Hopefully they'll persist that tradition.
Playing the game back for nostalgic reasons wasn't as fun though, standards have greatly shifted also socially. (as a 15yo, the girls in DN3D were attentionworthy.)
When we have to resort to cannibalism to survive, the fatties will be hunted
You underestimate a fatty with an appetite.
In order to remain their X and Z dimensional occupation, they'll need to persist a constant intake of nutricients. Those will be you.
If that happends, those who can persist this behaviour, will be the new social elite, as being around them, will mean there's food available. (If a person with a mass twice as mine sits on me, I cannot run. If a group of people with a greater mas encloses me, I cannot push them away either.)
It's always been like this; when food is scarce, those who are fatter are those with/in power. Nothing will say "that guy is hot and will increase my chances of gene survival", as being fat when there's no food around. You forgot to take the variable "social structure/values/situation" into account.
but the average person (at least in North America) would little more than flinch, so long as their own city or state is not affected.
I suppose this is true. I think it's partially because of becoming desensitized and not allowing it to affect onself too much because of the flood of these messages. Numbers also are meaningless to many; if one would report 3000 people being killed, noone would react. If one would give 1 person a face (documentary, reportage,...) people would feel affected and connected. (disgust, confusion, empathy,... depending on what's being brought across.)
This connection would fade over time though, as it's not related to one's own life. If someone in your family or environment dies, you're confronted with his or her absence on a regular base. The memory of some flickering screen is less strong and doesn't integrate or reconnect as strongly with your frame of reference as your own, direct experiences.
Perhaps it's a good coping and survival mechanism, to be able t shrug it off. If I wouldn't be able to shrug of the news I hear every day, I'd be unable to live my life; I'd be saving puppies and bulls in Spain, protecting seals on the north pole, trying to end world hunger, giving Russian futureless boys perspective to lower the crime rates, start an organisation to help people with difficult personal problems, fight at the side of the innocent in Iraq, protest at the White house for more US citizens rights, would pound my fist on the table in the parlement, reform the police, reshape the educational system, take away the need for fugutives to emigrate, spend my life finding cures against AIDS and cancer, shelter all the homeless, and build rockets to fly to Mars. (because that would be cool)
If I sum it up, it's almost like news is there to give you a feeling of helplessness, and accept the fact your influence in the world is limited and puny.
This is just in! A first alien message! It's estimated to be 500,000 light years away and even more radio year.
After years of crunching our most heavy quantum computers, we decoded; "HELP. WE ARE THE LAST KNOWN SURVIVING SPECIES IN THIS UNIVERSE. HELP. THEY FINALLY HAVE CREATED WEAPONS OF MASS... - NO CARRIER.".
Although, if you're the right-wing type who thinks of athesits as god-less satan worshippers...
Wow. Just wow. This must be the most valid point to strenghten your position in a discussion. "If you do not agree with my above statement, you must be also part of this other group I loathe with all evil and despicable people and followers according to my processing ability of what I believe is factual data, where I take emotion entirely out of the equation."
I must say, you're a strong conversationalist.
btw, I live a country where you have dosens of political parties, no "black/white", before you ignore me away as a "evil other-then-me"-type of person falling outside of your comfy frame of reference which you try to enforce no matter what; "it is so because I say so. And if it isn't, I shall make it so!" comes to mind. You must be god, in your own frame of reference. Also, your answer is quite conclusive, you must be very intelligent and have weighted every possible aspect of every possible stance to be able to so shortly summerize some issue as this. As if you're saying "nah, I don't feel like cookies right now. I'm more concerned about how I can generate alternative power from a bee. I'm almost there. This cookie decision making is puny."
Please, can grant me three absolute answers? Your powers might help humankind. Or else you're probably one of these retarted Americans who think in black and white. You couldn't be that, you posess absolute knowledge.
especially after the phrase "I only watched the first 6 seconds of it." Surely you must understand these people don't play guitar hero controllers all of the time
I've watched 40 seconds of it. (I actually finished to see them get the applause while writing this comment.) It gets worse. You make it sound that operating "guitar hero controllers" (designed to be easy to use by children. What's the target age of these things?) is like operating an actual instrument.
Look, I can play a real guitar. I sortof suck at it, but at least I can take pride in the fact I'm so skilled I can make it sound equally sucky.
Slashdot Mirror
That is if you assume all life evolves the same way and undergoes the same probable events to come to a common endresult.
Imagine a square world, the entire conceptualization ability of creatures living on a square world would differ so greatly they might be unable to grasp our sphere shaped one and the implications with al the results.
Their biology, mathematics and all that would differ: they wouldn't have radiants, they wouldn't use degrees but will have a more firm understanding and derrived knowledge about squares. They won't really know Pi as they might have a hard time conceptualizing circles or spheres.
Events creating our culture, would have a entire different timeline as well; they might not have the same symbols, ideals, social constructs, "moralities", art or any of that.
Now, imagine then, to come to a planet, and observe a society, which takes its own references and mental constructs for granted, but for the onlooker, its alien. It's horribly abstract to grasp, and quasi impossible to trace back all those habits and structures which have evolved over the years.
The same way you find a "redneck" a "lower form of human", they might consider it otherwise.
Take this thought-experiment; in a place where space is scarce, he who lives in the open might be considered elite. In the same way, you might end up with a preconcept of creatures who are codependant and the ones being independant are considered king. What you find "disgusting" or "lower value" about a redneck is just cultural and is based on your frame of reference, conditioning and what you consider "wealth" or "health". To a species, alien to our, these nuances might be completely lost. Maybe they greet kings by anal probing them, as they can afford to be gay and do not require to fornicate to maintain their reproduction as they can afford some alternative means which might be considered more fashionable or they communicate through anal glands and feel frustrated humans are retartedly hysterical and fart (=screaming) uncontrollably when they try to engage into conversation.
I think it's an impossible task to conceptualize the unknown with all its probabilities.
Nice insightful feedback, I didn't look at the problem like that yet. Thanks :)
So, why then, don't we think out some learning phases we need to build a really good AI and stepwise implement them as capcha's?
Ofcourse they will be cracked eventually, so why not use the challenge constructively?
Each time a new captcha algorithm is cracked, we could use a next phase and end up with a true AI, in a collaborated effort with "the evil crackers". Each time utilizing an aspect of "human intelligence" which we cannot teach a computer yet, and have someone desperate solve a captcha challenge, solving the problem of emulating a cognitive ability, one at the time?
What is this "notepad" you're talking about? What's handy about it and where can I download it?
Who forced you to buy a more 3D oriented graphics-card?
These days you can pick your system oriented to your usage, if you want to play alot of games, do alot of encoding or work alot with media, you'll get a more advanced graphicscard and are willing to make a bigger investment in that. If you don't, you're perfectly fine with an integrated graphicscard. The choice is there, and it's to be made by you. You're not "forced".
What would software be able to do, which a 3D graphics card is pushed for to do? If you're going to emulated your 3D operations you otherwise have a dedicated chip for, on which they compare the performance on frames rendered? I believe directX allow transparant use of "software"/"hardware" acceleration.
You could read more up on it in wikipedia. It sounds silly to implement another redundant driver to get the same or even wors results.
It reminds me to this cellphone I bought, it was all "web 2.0". The interface was black/grey/orange. It made me feel depressed just using it even though it had pretty dropdown shadows. Gah, I threw that thing out within the week. What's so "cool" about black interfaces?
I like the highlighting and compact info displayed in google, this site is lacking this, and hiding data behind fancy 2.0 collapsed menu's. Added to that, on my widescreen laptop I only see 5 results at a time. Thats incredibly insufficient if you want to quickly filter ALOT of data. It wont scratch my searching itch. Nice try, but not really.
It's geekporn. A geeky girl, soldering, throwing together electronics and showing you her enthousiasm for hacking and electronics? This *IS* porn.
Why do you think there aren't as much reactions?
... I doubt they'll shwo the alien pictures too.
Well, you have the ancient towns "visited by gods" or even run by them if you can believe certain archeologists (like Inca and Aztec golden cities).
Sounds like some might've crossed "that fine line", if you take Nephilim as partial fact.
Yea, those damn kids with graffiti everywhere! Nazca lines. Some literally seem to display "monkeys live here, don't bother."
All taken with a large grain of salt, ofcourse ;)
While wanting to help your son in his curiousity, I think you shouldn't guide him too much but provide help when he gets stuck or something he tries to do doesn't work.
For me personally, I learned programming by experimenting, doing, my curiousity and drive to do something on a PC often brought me into different fields of programming. It's the curiousity and that geeky drive that made me want to discover more. Often, when I found a good resource on how to do a particular task, it bored me as the challenge got lost. The same goes with having a peer with "all the answers", it makes you shut off your own creative process.
Programming is to me exploration and experimentation, building on past "discoveries" and solutions you've thought up. If you'd want his curiousity sparked, allow him to be creative, think out new things to push himself further and constantly feeling a sense of realisation or achievement. Something that is "your own".
Wherever that's on Linux, some flashmovie, a "hello world"-movie, for some a HTML-page, a clever JavaScript, it doesn't matter.
I wasn't really aware of datamining until a lecture not too long ago, given by a handful of enthousiasts and I was sold; just possible implementations and new approuches to the way we approach data is just mindblowing and is just so freaking cool.
The subject seems soo specific yet its implemenation in our large databases becomes more important and relevant.
SQLServer datamining
Datamining blog
XMLA
Only if you zip it twice and shake your laptop (or wiggle your PC) during the process for randomizing some bits.
Yes, agreed. But there's a difference between logical reasoning and understanding and actual implementation.
Basically you're saying, in this context; "I understand the logical approach. So there's no need for me to put time in implementing it. A monkey without any sense of logic could produce a program with the same output."
So you'd like someone, who you value "unable to understand the deeper underlaying logic", to write your program representing the way you understood the problem and how it could be solved?
It's to me also a very troubling progress; people being trained to become programmers or who will have to program, but already ,before being skilled enough or having any experience, have the attitude "oh, I can outsource it!". Once those end up in the industry, what are those worth? "I can't be bothered with it. Let them outsource it"... And everyone throws their arms in the ari "oh noes, were are our jobs going?"
Having done alot of projects "in the real world", it's rarely who put the project together who are the ones brainstorming how to make it fit more logcally without breaking the design. Those "finger in air"-documents, created by those with a simular attitude, without practical "hands on" knowledge *think* it's all fitting as a glove. But once you try to implement it you're bumping into alot of surprices and burning money with heaps.
Ideally someone with alot of practical knowledge should lead these sorts of projects just for this reason. But where are you at when you're even not willing to gather a bit of experience, because it seems "unnecessary"?
It's a combination of experience and skill (ability to logically understand the whole), to verify your analysis into practice, link back and evolve in your skillsets that help you to be better at what you do.
I've stood at both sides in projects, and it's also not as straightforwards to come up with something that works perfectly. It all might be very logical, it's not definite and bringing it into being, you always have a surprice here and there.
There's never perfection and you never know enough, each day I still learn and finetune my skills. If you're starting to outsource your potential even before you can assign yourself a certain title, it's a bit of a dubious thing to do.
It reminds me of this engineer, taking huge pride in a job well done after his equations and calculations were all perfectly done, with added whitenoise buffers calculated to the point he felt he could be pleased with himself and nothing could go wrong. The moment his creation came into being, he spent weeks finding the "sweetspot" to make it work. His clash with the "pure theory and logic" and the actual world were a tough lesson.
Where is the variable "Iraqies"? They're people too, aren't they?
I was 15, playing it like mad, when I grew tired of it I discovered the development tools on the CD and just went crazy with it.
Hopefully they'll persist that tradition.
Playing the game back for nostalgic reasons wasn't as fun though, standards have greatly shifted also socially. (as a 15yo, the girls in DN3D were attentionworthy.)
They're detaching the screens now. Get on NASA TV now, and see it live.
In 20mins it's all over.
You underestimate a fatty with an appetite.
In order to remain their X and Z dimensional occupation, they'll need to persist a constant intake of nutricients. Those will be you.
If that happends, those who can persist this behaviour, will be the new social elite, as being around them, will mean there's food available. (If a person with a mass twice as mine sits on me, I cannot run. If a group of people with a greater mas encloses me, I cannot push them away either.)
It's always been like this; when food is scarce, those who are fatter are those with/in power. Nothing will say "that guy is hot and will increase my chances of gene survival", as being fat when there's no food around. You forgot to take the variable "social structure/values/situation" into account.
I suppose this is true. I think it's partially because of becoming desensitized and not allowing it to affect onself too much because of the flood of these messages. Numbers also are meaningless to many; if one would report 3000 people being killed, noone would react. If one would give 1 person a face (documentary, reportage, ...) people would feel affected and connected. (disgust, confusion, empathy, ... depending on what's being brought across.)
This connection would fade over time though, as it's not related to one's own life. If someone in your family or environment dies, you're confronted with his or her absence on a regular base. The memory of some flickering screen is less strong and doesn't integrate or reconnect as strongly with your frame of reference as your own, direct experiences.
Perhaps it's a good coping and survival mechanism, to be able t shrug it off. If I wouldn't be able to shrug of the news I hear every day, I'd be unable to live my life; I'd be saving puppies and bulls in Spain, protecting seals on the north pole, trying to end world hunger, giving Russian futureless boys perspective to lower the crime rates, start an organisation to help people with difficult personal problems, fight at the side of the innocent in Iraq, protest at the White house for more US citizens rights, would pound my fist on the table in the parlement, reform the police, reshape the educational system, take away the need for fugutives to emigrate, spend my life finding cures against AIDS and cancer, shelter all the homeless, and build rockets to fly to Mars. (because that would be cool)
If I sum it up, it's almost like news is there to give you a feeling of helplessness, and accept the fact your influence in the world is limited and puny.
This is just in! A first alien message! It's estimated to be 500,000 light years away and even more radio year.
After years of crunching our most heavy quantum computers, we decoded;
"HELP. WE ARE THE LAST KNOWN SURVIVING SPECIES IN THIS UNIVERSE. HELP. THEY FINALLY HAVE CREATED WEAPONS OF MASS... - NO CARRIER.".
Wow. Just wow. This must be the most valid point to strenghten your position in a discussion. "If you do not agree with my above statement, you must be also part of this other group I loathe with all evil and despicable people and followers according to my processing ability of what I believe is factual data, where I take emotion entirely out of the equation."
I must say, you're a strong conversationalist.
btw, I live a country where you have dosens of political parties, no "black/white", before you ignore me away as a "evil other-then-me"-type of person falling outside of your comfy frame of reference which you try to enforce no matter what; "it is so because I say so. And if it isn't, I shall make it so!" comes to mind. You must be god, in your own frame of reference. Also, your answer is quite conclusive, you must be very intelligent and have weighted every possible aspect of every possible stance to be able to so shortly summerize some issue as this. As if you're saying "nah, I don't feel like cookies right now. I'm more concerned about how I can generate alternative power from a bee. I'm almost there. This cookie decision making is puny."
Please, can grant me three absolute answers? Your powers might help humankind. Or else you're probably one of these retarted Americans who think in black and white. You couldn't be that, you posess absolute knowledge.
Now there's a challenge!
I've watched 40 seconds of it. (I actually finished to see them get the applause while writing this comment.)
It gets worse.
You make it sound that operating "guitar hero controllers" (designed to be easy to use by children. What's the target age of these things?) is like operating an actual instrument.
Look, I can play a real guitar. I sortof suck at it, but at least I can take pride in the fact I'm so skilled I can make it sound equally sucky.
Reminds me of this episode of South Park.
It is. Half car, half plane. A hybrid.
Yes. It's called dietbetis.