"MAN! This whole fiasco is bouncing around the topics here more than a superball! Alright, let's get a few things straight:"
Okay...
"You are the grandmother of a well rounded 14 year old son. He's getting angsty from puberty and general teenager stuff, but he ain't that bad a kid. His parents let him watch some R rated movies, and don't mind the music he listens to either. They are also pretty tolerant about the games he plays."
You assume a lot.
"So you know your grandson wants this game, and let's say that you know at the very least that it is pretty graphic, but IT DOESN'T CONTAIN ANYTHING HE HASN'T SEEN BEFORE! If he's watched R rated movies, he's probably familiar with the violence. If he listens to today's music, then the game's language ought to be no shock to him."
A 14 your old male, one who has the freedom to listen to and watch almost whatever he wants, has seen hard core porn. Period.
"THEN you find out that the company slipped in this mini-game that involves graphic/explicit sex, and you realize YOU were the one that bought it for him. Sure it requires using a cheat device and a cheat code, but with a little web surfing and owning said cheat device, it isn't too difficult to unlock if the effort is put into it."
That does not sound like a "mini-game". That sounds like unused code. There are a millions examples of these easter eggs - everything from cheat codes to "lost levels" and equipment. If you unlock it, then more power to you. But it is not what the developer had in mind for the final product.
"So whose fault was it? Was it the ratings board for not properly giving the game an AO rating, reserved for games with graphic sex?"
No. The game, as it was meant to be played, was rated M. AO is a misnomer unless the game shipped with the Hot Coffee Mod applied.
"So, now we have dear Flo here going to court with a lawyer who ISN'T Jack Thompson, and she, as of right now, can have a pretty good case against the company. They did NOT disclose the mini-game to the ratings board, and it went unmentioned until July when it spread like wildfire, and when something spreads that quickly, you know that it can be easily accessed by any tech savvy kid."
Why, exactly, would you disclose that buried in the code, inaccessable to normal users of the game, is this bit of code?
"1) Grandma has a case against Rockstar because they provided millions of discs to parents who did NOT want graphic sex placed before their kids. Violence and language, and sexual suggestiveness is one thing, but graphic sex is THE MOST TABOO thing possible in media. Movies, books, TV, and radio do not have graphic explicit sex material on them. Think about the last time you listened to a porn scene on the radio, watched full blown sex on TV (BY HUMANS!), read a graphically detailed sex scene in a book, and saw a full out sex scene in a movie that wasn't porn!"
Uh, dude, are you insane. Howard Stern, every morning, has some chick moaning away in some sex scene. Daytime soaps have many steamy moments, as do evening shows. Not "hard core", but neither is the sex in the Hot Coffee mod - which, I wonder, have you even seen? Books, aside from Harry Potter, have lots of sex in them. In fact, most of the books I read have some sex. Some is graphic, other is just incidental. It's really a non-issue. Not to mention, do you have any idea how much money "THE MOST TABOO" media makes each year? I don't have exact figures handy (and I'm not about to look it up at work) but I understand it makes more money than any other form of entertainment. Not exactly taboo.
"And I'm talking MORE than frontal nudity. I'm talking about the full monty!"
The male character in Hot Coffee is wearing pants and the female has no discernable genetalia.
"Chances are, she could win and Rockstar will have to pay back and accept all returned copies of the game. Going beyond that will be a tricky fight, but even refunding ALL THOSE GAMES can cost a HELUVA LOT OF MONE
So, I hope this has upset you as much as it upsets me. Reading that sniveling worm of a politician's thoughts on GTA and how they are trying to peddle smut to the kiddies makes me want to vomit. And I don't even like GTA!
Does anyone have a good site that we could use to write people involved in this "investigation"? Perhaps someone could draft a nice form letter we could all use?
another, often overlooked, restriction is on the premium theatre.
in this, glorious, theatre, everyone must be 21. No babies. No kids. Plus there is a bar. and all the popcorn and soda is part of your ticket.
it's the *ONLY* way to go to the movies.
See, this is the "self righteous" attitude that the original poster was likely commenting on.
Guess what... there are millions of people out there with views different from your own. Many of them are likely very decent and moral people (following in the "do unto others" mentality - even without Jesus!).
And now, throwing caution in the wind of being modded down to troll or worse, I ask that you kindly stick your God, Hell, and whatever service you are referring to, straight in your pooper.
"I think its okay to be upset with a product that you pay for."
I do to, but some of these people are out of thier minds. Hey, I was annoyed at having to uninstall CloneDVD to play BF2.
But for someone to complain about code left in the game for options that don't exist...how about looking at what's *in* the game, not what might have been in the game (Hot Coffee mod anyone?). Someone else was discussing the virtues of a ` and how it didn't work properly during in-game chatting.
Small potatoes.
But I suppose if we all sat here saying how great everythign was, there wouldn't be much of a discussion:)
Here is a clue: we are talking about games. Sure it's an interesting subject, but in the end, it's just a game. You don't want to play BF2 because your neighbor's friend's brother told you he had lag? You think Valve is spying on you with Steam? Too bad for you.
The reality is, HL2 and BF2 are 2 of the best games I've played in a long time. I understand that I'm buying a product from someone, and, gasp, I might not have 100% freedom to have it work like I want to. I don't recall seeing the GNU license attached to either of these games.
Gibs are no big deal - hell, I didn't even remember that there were any in DS (and I'm still not sure) and I played the whole thing and the LOA expansion. Diablo II didn't have any?
I dl'ed a video of the Hot Coffee sex scene yesterday... I think the female character was naked, the guy wasn't. Basically you played as the guy and had to get the girl's excitement meter up.
It started with the girl giving head, then moved into missionary, doggy, and some other positions. I think the faster you pumped and the more positions you got into affected her excitement meter. It was more akin to the sex scene in Team America than Bond.
I wondered what button combination resulted in a Cleveland Steamer, but I guess we will never know...
NewEgg is awesome and all - I've purchased at least 3 computers (well, the parts for 3) through them, but you can get very good deals at Buy for some pc parts. Over the years, I've probably purchase $1000 of random things from them and never had a problem. Frankly, I'm quite surprised by the low score.
Just recently I found a new electronics site - www.zipzoomfly.com (stuid name, good prices). They were $20 cheaper than newegg on a video card I wanted and had free 2nd day air. Only problem was it took 2 days to process my order...so in the end, I saved $20 bucks, but got it in the same amount of time as if I bought from newegg.
I agree - although I did just pick up an x800 xt, so im hankering for some fancy schmancy graphics.
my problem is that i cant get the voip to work using my plantronics usb headset.:(
The short end - your mileage may vary on this one - I've seen no issues with the patched version.
My roommates and I picked that up for the NES when we were in college - damn, that was a fun game. Shooting these big 'W' bullets at the enemies and trying to figure out the puzzles.
There were cutscenes between the levels that were hard because they asked you bible questions. I had to dig deep to get some of those answers.
Note: I'm an athiest - I enjoyed it because it was fun. And I was probably really messed up at the time.
You hit the nail on the head here. I barely know the hit bands, nevermind the ones that sold 50,000 copies (which, if your using that as a number to brag about, is pretty weak, imo).
"Wal-Mart sells low end crap to people who can't afford or don't want better....or people who don't think paying $.25 less for a tube of the same brand of toothpaste is Evil."
For the record, I don't think it's evil. I think it's evil that stores like Walmart can effectively push a certain set of values by not offering certain products. I.e. music, books, magazines, and movies that they won't sell for whatever reason. Even still, they are a private business, so there is nothing stopping them.
I'm saying that as a whole, Wal-Mart offers cheap products that are cheaply made. Hopefully brand name items are going to be the same no matter the cost or location.
"The CIA's estimated that 159 million Americans had Internet access in 2002. That's probably well over 200 million today, and a huge portion of the population by any means. Since debit cards are overtaking checkbooks in popularity, Amazon accepts debit cards"
Come on, no one shops online unless they have a PC in thier home or office. Stats on having internet access is sort of meaningless because they probably include everyone who has ever purchased a coffee at Starbucks - it's a wireless hotspot and they could have the internet if they had a laptop with them.
Good point about the debit cards - I didn't know they accepted them.
No they aren't. I will attempt to over-generalize:
Wal-Mart sells low end crap to people who can't afford or don't want better.
Target sells middle range crap to people who can't afford or don't want better.
Amazon sells anything to people who want it. People that shop at Amazon are probably more affluent than your average Wal-Mart shopper - they have to have credit, a computer, and an internet connection.
It would seem that Amazon, even though they are huge, cannot put the same level of pressure on thier suppliers. Sure, stuff is cheap because they get volume discounts, but I doubt they have the pull to change how something is manufactured.
I can shop at Amazon at any time of day, wearing (or not wearing) anything I want, unshaved, unkempt, with a cat on my shoulder, while drinking a beer.
They now sell "beauty" items which include a variety of...hrm, maritial aids and condoms? (is that the right expression if you aren't married?) No more wierd trips to the local "Amazing Superstore" which is filled with guys who amaze me because they pay for pr0n.
The prices are pretty good, although I think Buy beats them half the time.
The *only* think that I don't like is paying for shipping - yeah yeah, the $25 thing, but that doesn't work if you find yourself buying from an authorized seller and not Amazon itself.
I think you all need to relax a bit and maybe throw "The Breakfast Club" into your DVD player.
Here is a clue - you felt like you were oppressed and misunderstood in high school. You were. So was everyone else.
I was Mr. Introvert and didn't get close to many people - didn't have many friends, no one related to me in any deep and meaningful way. I eventually reinvented myself and went to college and then entered the workforce. Now I'm normal - whatever that means. I'm not Joe Budwieser watching sports and Nascar, but I own a house with my girlfriend in the 'burbs. Life is good.
Now that I'm (woah) 10 years removed from high school, I can see that most everyone else had the same experience. Get over it, move on, go to the beach, have a beer, smoke a joint, go to a concert, enjoy the theatre, take in a good movie, drink a nice glass of wine, go out to dinner and try something different.
You're insane if you think that people who like games like Battlefield 2 are incapable of enjoying innovatve games like KD.
I can assure you I own both and will be purchasing ELKD as soon as it's released.
I've been playing FPS's since Wolf3D. I've seen them mature and enjoyed the additional features and improvements that each generation adds to the genre.
Yes, you can say that BF2 is just another "FPS war sim army-style", but you can make similar generalizations about a lot of games.
The question to ask yourself is "does this new feature enhance the game/gameplay, or is it a gimmick (ala lensflare from a few years ago)?".
"All that being said, I believe that the Revolution will at least support 480p so the quality on a HDTV shouldn't be too bad. If it's only 480i I definitely won't touch the Revolution with a 10 foot pole."
Totally. I have to get my GC serviced - it's a launch date system and the laser has died. I'm not about to buy another one because they removed the 480p ability in the newer GC's. I have no plans on reverting back to a fuzzy 480i.
I love Nintendo games, but if the revolution is less than 480p...I dunno.
"Why the fuck should I pay an extra $40 for my revolution so you can feel better about being suckered into buying a tv that serves only to hilight the dodgey compression in modern broadcasts and dvd?"
Why shouldn't I be able to pay an additional $40 to play games on a real HDTV because I chose to wait and didn't buy an overhyped 800 lb Sony Trinitron?
Also, mate, you will not be using that tv in 10 years - at least, not in your living room.
Slashdot Mirror
"MAN! This whole fiasco is bouncing around the topics here more than a superball! Alright, let's get a few things straight:"
Okay...
"You are the grandmother of a well rounded 14 year old son. He's getting angsty from puberty and general teenager stuff, but he ain't that bad a kid. His parents let him watch some R rated movies, and don't mind the music he listens to either. They are also pretty tolerant about the games he plays."
You assume a lot.
"So you know your grandson wants this game, and let's say that you know at the very least that it is pretty graphic, but IT DOESN'T CONTAIN ANYTHING HE HASN'T SEEN BEFORE! If he's watched R rated movies, he's probably familiar with the violence. If he listens to today's music, then the game's language ought to be no shock to him."
A 14 your old male, one who has the freedom to listen to and watch almost whatever he wants, has seen hard core porn. Period.
"THEN you find out that the company slipped in this mini-game that involves graphic/explicit sex, and you realize YOU were the one that bought it for him. Sure it requires using a cheat device and a cheat code, but with a little web surfing and owning said cheat device, it isn't too difficult to unlock if the effort is put into it."
That does not sound like a "mini-game". That sounds like unused code. There are a millions examples of these easter eggs - everything from cheat codes to "lost levels" and equipment. If you unlock it, then more power to you. But it is not what the developer had in mind for the final product.
"So whose fault was it? Was it the ratings board for not properly giving the game an AO rating, reserved for games with graphic sex?"
No. The game, as it was meant to be played, was rated M. AO is a misnomer unless the game shipped with the Hot Coffee Mod applied.
"So, now we have dear Flo here going to court with a lawyer who ISN'T Jack Thompson, and she, as of right now, can have a pretty good case against the company. They did NOT disclose the mini-game to the ratings board, and it went unmentioned until July when it spread like wildfire, and when something spreads that quickly, you know that it can be easily accessed by any tech savvy kid."
Why, exactly, would you disclose that buried in the code, inaccessable to normal users of the game, is this bit of code?
"1) Grandma has a case against Rockstar because they provided millions of discs to parents who did NOT want graphic sex placed before their kids. Violence and language, and sexual suggestiveness is one thing, but graphic sex is THE MOST TABOO thing possible in media. Movies, books, TV, and radio do not have graphic explicit sex material on them. Think about the last time you listened to a porn scene on the radio, watched full blown sex on TV (BY HUMANS!), read a graphically detailed sex scene in a book, and saw a full out sex scene in a movie that wasn't porn!"
Uh, dude, are you insane. Howard Stern, every morning, has some chick moaning away in some sex scene. Daytime soaps have many steamy moments, as do evening shows. Not "hard core", but neither is the sex in the Hot Coffee mod - which, I wonder, have you even seen? Books, aside from Harry Potter, have lots of sex in them. In fact, most of the books I read have some sex. Some is graphic, other is just incidental. It's really a non-issue. Not to mention, do you have any idea how much money "THE MOST TABOO" media makes each year? I don't have exact figures handy (and I'm not about to look it up at work) but I understand it makes more money than any other form of entertainment. Not exactly taboo.
"And I'm talking MORE than frontal nudity. I'm talking about the full monty!"
The male character in Hot Coffee is wearing pants and the female has no discernable genetalia.
"Chances are, she could win and Rockstar will have to pay back and accept all returned copies of the game. Going beyond that will be a tricky fight, but even refunding ALL THOSE GAMES can cost a HELUVA LOT OF MONE
It would seem to me the truth is something like:
"Hey Fred, check out this sex mini game I just wrote!"
"Wow Barney, that's pretty cool, lets show Wilma, the boss"
"Guys, that's pretty cool, but there is no way we can use that...however I like this texture and this vocal - can we use that somewhere else?"
and so on and so forth...
So, I hope this has upset you as much as it upsets me. Reading that sniveling worm of a politician's thoughts on GTA and how they are trying to peddle smut to the kiddies makes me want to vomit. And I don't even like GTA!
Does anyone have a good site that we could use to write people involved in this "investigation"? Perhaps someone could draft a nice form letter we could all use?
another, often overlooked, restriction is on the premium theatre. in this, glorious, theatre, everyone must be 21. No babies. No kids. Plus there is a bar. and all the popcorn and soda is part of your ticket. it's the *ONLY* way to go to the movies.
Let me respond in kind with a:
"Whooooooga booga!@#" to you to, buddy.
See, this is the "self righteous" attitude that the original poster was likely commenting on.
Guess what... there are millions of people out there with views different from your own. Many of them are likely very decent and moral people (following in the "do unto others" mentality - even without Jesus!).
And now, throwing caution in the wind of being modded down to troll or worse, I ask that you kindly stick your God, Hell, and whatever service you are referring to, straight in your pooper.
"But no, let's legislate the fuck out of the video-game industry because Hillary Clinton is running for president."
You forgot the "pardon the pun"...
"I think its okay to be upset with a product that you pay for."
:)
I do to, but some of these people are out of thier minds. Hey, I was annoyed at having to uninstall CloneDVD to play BF2.
But for someone to complain about code left in the game for options that don't exist...how about looking at what's *in* the game, not what might have been in the game (Hot Coffee mod anyone?). Someone else was discussing the virtues of a ` and how it didn't work properly during in-game chatting.
Small potatoes.
But I suppose if we all sat here saying how great everythign was, there wouldn't be much of a discussion
What a bunch of whiny bitches.
Waaah, HL2 has Steam...
Waaah, BF2 won't let me play with X installed...
Waaah, "They aren't getting MY money!"
Waaah, "I'M NOT..."
Here is a clue: we are talking about games. Sure it's an interesting subject, but in the end, it's just a game. You don't want to play BF2 because your neighbor's friend's brother told you he had lag? You think Valve is spying on you with Steam? Too bad for you.
The reality is, HL2 and BF2 are 2 of the best games I've played in a long time. I understand that I'm buying a product from someone, and, gasp, I might not have 100% freedom to have it work like I want to. I don't recall seeing the GNU license attached to either of these games.
I had this issue - the culprit was CloneDVD.
Alc120% was okay...
Gibs are no big deal - hell, I didn't even remember that there were any in DS (and I'm still not sure) and I played the whole thing and the LOA expansion. Diablo II didn't have any?
I dl'ed a video of the Hot Coffee sex scene yesterday... I think the female character was naked, the guy wasn't. Basically you played as the guy and had to get the girl's excitement meter up.
It started with the girl giving head, then moved into missionary, doggy, and some other positions. I think the faster you pumped and the more positions you got into affected her excitement meter. It was more akin to the sex scene in Team America than Bond.
I wondered what button combination resulted in a Cleveland Steamer, but I guess we will never know...
NewEgg is awesome and all - I've purchased at least 3 computers (well, the parts for 3) through them, but you can get very good deals at Buy for some pc parts. Over the years, I've probably purchase $1000 of random things from them and never had a problem. Frankly, I'm quite surprised by the low score.
Just recently I found a new electronics site - www.zipzoomfly.com (stuid name, good prices). They were $20 cheaper than newegg on a video card I wanted and had free 2nd day air. Only problem was it took 2 days to process my order...so in the end, I saved $20 bucks, but got it in the same amount of time as if I bought from newegg.
I agree - although I did just pick up an x800 xt, so im hankering for some fancy schmancy graphics. my problem is that i cant get the voip to work using my plantronics usb headset. :(
The short end - your mileage may vary on this one - I've seen no issues with the patched version.
Dude, did you guys get to play Exodus?
My roommates and I picked that up for the NES when we were in college - damn, that was a fun game. Shooting these big 'W' bullets at the enemies and trying to figure out the puzzles.
There were cutscenes between the levels that were hard because they asked you bible questions. I had to dig deep to get some of those answers.
Note: I'm an athiest - I enjoyed it because it was fun. And I was probably really messed up at the time.
You hit the nail on the head here. I barely know the hit bands, nevermind the ones that sold 50,000 copies (which, if your using that as a number to brag about, is pretty weak, imo).
Guess I'm going to hell.
Too bad the game would be rated M and minors couldn't buy it.
Oh wait, it has religious significance, so the level where jesus is getting whipped *is* appropriate for children.
"Wal-Mart sells low end crap to people who can't afford or don't want better. ...or people who don't think paying $.25 less for a tube of the same brand of toothpaste is Evil."
For the record, I don't think it's evil. I think it's evil that stores like Walmart can effectively push a certain set of values by not offering certain products. I.e. music, books, magazines, and movies that they won't sell for whatever reason. Even still, they are a private business, so there is nothing stopping them.
I'm saying that as a whole, Wal-Mart offers cheap products that are cheaply made. Hopefully brand name items are going to be the same no matter the cost or location.
"The CIA's estimated that 159 million Americans had Internet access in 2002. That's probably well over 200 million today, and a huge portion of the population by any means. Since debit cards are overtaking checkbooks in popularity, Amazon accepts debit cards"
Come on, no one shops online unless they have a PC in thier home or office. Stats on having internet access is sort of meaningless because they probably include everyone who has ever purchased a coffee at Starbucks - it's a wireless hotspot and they could have the internet if they had a laptop with them.
Good point about the debit cards - I didn't know they accepted them.
No they aren't. I will attempt to over-generalize:
Wal-Mart sells low end crap to people who can't afford or don't want better.
Target sells middle range crap to people who can't afford or don't want better.
Amazon sells anything to people who want it. People that shop at Amazon are probably more affluent than your average Wal-Mart shopper - they have to have credit, a computer, and an internet connection.
It would seem that Amazon, even though they are huge, cannot put the same level of pressure on thier suppliers. Sure, stuff is cheap because they get volume discounts, but I doubt they have the pull to change how something is manufactured.
I can shop at Amazon at any time of day, wearing (or not wearing) anything I want, unshaved, unkempt, with a cat on my shoulder, while drinking a beer.
They now sell "beauty" items which include a variety of...hrm, maritial aids and condoms? (is that the right expression if you aren't married?) No more wierd trips to the local "Amazing Superstore" which is filled with guys who amaze me because they pay for pr0n.
The prices are pretty good, although I think Buy beats them half the time.
The *only* think that I don't like is paying for shipping - yeah yeah, the $25 thing, but that doesn't work if you find yourself buying from an authorized seller and not Amazon itself.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I think you all need to relax a bit and maybe throw "The Breakfast Club" into your DVD player.
Here is a clue - you felt like you were oppressed and misunderstood in high school. You were. So was everyone else.
I was Mr. Introvert and didn't get close to many people - didn't have many friends, no one related to me in any deep and meaningful way. I eventually reinvented myself and went to college and then entered the workforce. Now I'm normal - whatever that means. I'm not Joe Budwieser watching sports and Nascar, but I own a house with my girlfriend in the 'burbs. Life is good.
Now that I'm (woah) 10 years removed from high school, I can see that most everyone else had the same experience. Get over it, move on, go to the beach, have a beer, smoke a joint, go to a concert, enjoy the theatre, take in a good movie, drink a nice glass of wine, go out to dinner and try something different.
"The West has been occupying & opressing the Middle East for generations with no sign of stopping any time soon."
The West has been dependant on the resources (aka, oil) of the Middle East for generations. The West = the Money for the Middle East.
I think you are confusing tyrannical rulers that kill and oppress thier own people with the West.
You're insane if you think that people who like games like Battlefield 2 are incapable of enjoying innovatve games like KD.
I can assure you I own both and will be purchasing ELKD as soon as it's released.
I've been playing FPS's since Wolf3D. I've seen them mature and enjoyed the additional features and improvements that each generation adds to the genre.
Yes, you can say that BF2 is just another "FPS war sim army-style", but you can make similar generalizations about a lot of games.
The question to ask yourself is "does this new feature enhance the game/gameplay, or is it a gimmick (ala lensflare from a few years ago)?".
PC gaming is an expensive hobby.
Yes yes, you can run all the latest games on a $100 video card, blah blah, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
My point - I don't think there are many casual PC gamers.
Dude,
Poison kicks ass.
Thanks,
- 80's glam-metal fans everywhere
"All that being said, I believe that the Revolution will at least support 480p so the quality on a HDTV shouldn't be too bad. If it's only 480i I definitely won't touch the Revolution with a 10 foot pole." Totally. I have to get my GC serviced - it's a launch date system and the laser has died. I'm not about to buy another one because they removed the 480p ability in the newer GC's. I have no plans on reverting back to a fuzzy 480i. I love Nintendo games, but if the revolution is less than 480p...I dunno.
"Why the fuck should I pay an extra $40 for my revolution so you can feel better about being suckered into buying a tv that serves only to hilight the dodgey compression in modern broadcasts and dvd?"
Why shouldn't I be able to pay an additional $40 to play games on a real HDTV because I chose to wait and didn't buy an overhyped 800 lb Sony Trinitron?
Also, mate, you will not be using that tv in 10 years - at least, not in your living room.