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Government Pressure on ESRB
Alex Blonski writes "There is new CNN coverage on the recent pressure the government is putting on the ESRB to crack down on mature-rated titles, after the Grand Theft Auto Debacle. ESRB President Patricia Vance says that 'It is very important for people to realize that this game is rated " for mature,' Vance said. 'This game is not a game that was rated for children. Regardless of what if anything was modified, it's a game that the ESRB has made as clear as it can that it was not intended for anyone under the age of 17.'"
If a child decides to emulate the antics of a character in a video game, it is not the game's fault...it is the fault of the child's parents who have failed to instruct the child in the fundamental differences between fantasy and reality. They are the ones who should and must be held accountable for the misdeeds of their progeny.
When parents use their televisions and consoles as nanny and babysitter, they shouldn't be too surprised when their children begin using them as role models.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
From TFA: Critics say the board's guidance is toothless and does little to help parents trying to protect impressionable children from questionable content.
It's like clockwork. After "Won't somebody please think of the children!" comes "Won't somebody please think of the parents!" After all, kids can't vote, so it's important that the demagoguery focus on the most politically valuable "victims."
My question is, what do the parents want? Of course the ratings are toothless. They're just a guide. The "Mature" rating tells parents that a game labeled "M" is considered by the ESRB to be potentially inappropriate for people under 17. The ESRB is basically saying: "If you're in doubt, and your kid is under 17, don't allow this game in your home." If a parent is really in conniptions over video-game sex, violence, whatever, then they only need to exert minimal effort to convert their fears into action.
For parents that care to be more nuanced and/or involved, there are strategy guides in every game store that present the content of games in great detail. And there's also gamefaqs.com, which is free and convenient. Parents don't have to be gamers to avoid being totally oblivious. Now, I certainly don't expect every parent to be this savvy from the get-go. But the parents who claim to give a shit could educate themselves with what I think is a reasonable amount of time and effort.
But no, let's legislate the fuck out of the video-game industry because Hillary Clinton is running for president.
According to the article itself, the "unlocked nude sex scene" only applies to the PC version of GTA. That means that any kiddies that get exposed to it must first find and download the mod off the internet, then apply it to the game. If the child can/will do this, then he is already being potentially exposed to all the pornography on the internet. In other words, whats the difference between downloading and applying this mod and just downloading porn off the internet? Ratings are meaningless when children have unfettered access to the internet. It all comes back to parental oversight. Government is not a substitute for parenting.
I find it quite telling that when GTA only allowed you to pay for sex and then murder the prostitute in cold blood to get your money back, it was commented on but there was no big push to governmentally censor games.
But now that you can actually see yourself engaging in consensual sex with your in-game girlfriend, we need to "protect the children".
Doesn't this seem a little backwards? Apparently violence and murder is completely fine, but a little sex and the pols all go batshit.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
..and have no idea what is going on here's the dirty video
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
I don't know about some parents, but if I was a dad and my kid asked me to pony up $50 bucks for a video game, I'm sure as hell going to find out what its about. Plus most stores have the "M" games on lock down, anybody under 17 can't even buy them. This means a lot of these kids are getting adults that should know better to buy it for them. But as they say, money talks, bull**** walks, and these games are racking in the dough like crazy, more than what some blockbusters make.
insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here
I just have to say that I would've voted for Clinton if she made a run for President before she had diarrhea of the mouth and brought up this unrelated shit. She made a completely wrong (as we all know), completely uneducated statement, and based on factually *wrong* information called for a revamp of the whole system. That was a bad move on her part if she was expecting any of the geek vote. We all know what game mods are, and they've been around since the early days of computer gaming. Her statement was ignorant, and irresponsbile.
for the ESRB. It is both outdated and, quite frankly, useless in our society. It must now realize it's obsolescence or fail spectacularly as more and more games get higher ratings and still maintain incredible sales - as the core of the problem likes in the RETAILERS and the PARENTS and not in the rating itself. Do you honestly believe the parents who bought a rated M game for their 5-year old will even scoff at buying an AO game? Especially when their kids start claiming "XXXXX down the street got it from HIS dad!"
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
Why doesn't a blanket "Ratings may change according to game experience" cover this game? I see those on boxes of online games all the time. If someone posts a porn picture in an in-game chat for an MMO, it doesn't mean the game should be rated AO... This is the same thing.
Only lobbying and public pressure will. That leads to the situation we're in. If you have numbers or well-funded lobbyists behind your cause, you will get your freedom. If you don't, you're stuck. Freedom doesn't belong to you. Religions and uptight parents have the numbers. Gamers geeks and freaks don't. This is the essence of the America mob rule democracy. The mob makes the rules and the individual gets the shaft.
This is such classic "Think of the Children" fever hysteria. And there is a simple solution. Some enterprising game hacker needs to release a mod for the Left Behind Trivia Game that causes it to display explicit hardcore porn photos.
Either the crazy censors will go much too far and try to ban all video games, or maybe just maybe they will realize that THERE IS NO WAY FOR A COMPANY TO CONTROL WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO TO/WITH THEIR PRODUCTS.
check this out http://www.videogamesareevil.com/
Why 17 and not 18, or 21? Deciding by committee for every child in the US is stupid. They should use a system that lists the 'level' of sex, violence, dirty language or whatever and let parents choose appropriately for their own fears.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Never mind the crimes she committed and got away with by claiming "executive privilege" and shredding evidence? Not everyone in the early stage of the race is a felon. There are alternatives at this point.
It's like suing a satallite tv provider for having the possibillity of purchasing porno channels in the guide. They took out the hotcoffee mini from the game. It's no longer part of the retail game, it's not even a secret or easter egg. In fact, besides unless you're into gta more then the average gamer who goes online to read about it, AND have the PC version, chances are the average person would never find this in a lifetime even if they were paralyzed from the waste down fed through a tube playing GTA all day
It's really quite simple. This game was rated M, for mature players 17 and older. I'd like to talk to the parents of under-17 children playing GTA. I mean, COME ON. The name of the game is GRAND THEFT AUTO. It has a big ol' M on the front of the box. Who in their right mind thinks this is made for kids?
Parents are ultimately responsible (and held accountable!) for what their children do and are exposed to until the age of 18, at which point they become personally accountable. That's part of being a good parent. Read the ratings and use them in your purchasing decisions. Keep up on what your child is into and does with his/her time. BE A FUCKING PARENT, for God's sake!
If little Timmy played GTA at a friend's house, bitch to their parents about the game and then explain to your child why they shouldn't be playing Mature-rated games. You have the ultimate say-so in what your child does, so use that to RAISE THEM!
The way I see it, this is a complete and total non-issue. The ratings are there, broken down into the actual reasons why the game got that rating. Use them. End of story.
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
This whole thing smacks of what the music industry experienced with the "explicit" sticker that is put on CDs. Essentially, it looks like the govn't is trying to say what should / should not be played by people.... Out of curosity, what happens if a publisher/developer decides not to have the game rated by ESRB? Will retail outlets still sell the game?
Oooh, ooh this is where I point out how stupid your post is and we argue about it right? Yeah sure you flamebaitng troll.
It's protected speech, it's labeled mature. If you don't like it go fuck yourself.
They don't show any violence [that I recall] during the commercials and frankly if you give your children enough money to go out and buy stuff unsurpervised then them at home playing GTA is the LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES.
Kids could just as easily use the money for drugs or what not. If you're not surpervising your young children [16 yrs] then letting them play a game is the least of your worries...
Anyways, nice to see you with a super high ID and posting flamebait almost makes me question if you're here for legitimate dicussion.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Although it seems that questionable was (intentionally or not) included in GTA: SA, how far does this kind of thing extend? If the ESRB has to change the rating for GTA because of something found after the game's release, then why not do retro-active reviews of every game with questionable content? If this logic holds, then little Susie shouldn't be playing The Sims, as there are a number of sites out there that offer equally "questionable" content.
Go, and never darken my towels again! -- Rufus
How have children been targetted in Grand Theft Auto advertising? Is Joe Camel playing Grand Theft Auto now?
If the ESRB has already rated a game as Mature, what is it these rabid parent groups expect everyone else to do? It is up to the parents to ensure their children aren't buying these games. It is up to the parents to ensure their relatives aren't giving these games as gifts. It is up to the parents to ensure their children's friends aren't bringing the games over to play.
It is not society's responsibility to censor such content just in case some parents are too lazy or inept to keep an eye on their own kids.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I must have missed that GTA San Andreas and Manhunt ads during saturday morning cartoons.
How exactly do they market to children.
"I am a kernel in the linux army"
The problem is with the parents of the kids that play these video games. However, it isn't the iresponsible parents that are trying to stop this stuff. Most of them probably do not care enough to put a stop to it. It is people concerned about the overall health of our society and concerned about other peoples children that want these controls. To blanketly say that there should not be any government censorship is to say that a messed up parent has every right to mess up their 12 year old child. That frightens me.
I am apalled at Microsoft for their blatent disregard of our children. Apparently, it is possible to enter in a special code into a search engine, and get Internet Explorer to display lude pictures. This is outrageous!
I was also informed that other Microsoft products have similar problems. Outlook has a built-in feature for detecting pornographic emails and filing them into a separate folder called "junk." The product even comes with a built-in list of keywords to help the search!
I think we need the government to step in and regulate this stuff.
Oh oh! Slashdot fanboys to the rescue! Won't someone please think of the poor corporations!
You're not even arguing against my post. Again, you're putting up a straw man and knocking him down.
See the irony here is that you're saying that parents need to take responsiblity for their children. I agree with you. I also don't think GTA should be banned. I never implied anything else.
But Rockstar also needs to stop whining and take responsibility for their games. They're trying to scapegoat some modder, deny that there is pornographic code in the game, etc. They lie.
They asked for it, and I they really deserve no sympathy.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
Parent my children for me, for I cannot do it myself. Protect my children from my laziness and unwillingness to do the 5 minutes of Google research it takes to find out the contents of a game rated M. While you're at it, let's get rid of R rated movies. I know, it has the R rating on there, but somehow my kids are going to see it. After all, I don't keep track of their whereabouts, nor take an active role in their daily lives. Also, get rid of profane music. Tipper was right; the kids will still get their hands on it, and it'll scar my little babies even more than my completely incompetent parenting skills.
"In a video game, you're actually pursuing and simulating a person. You're under hypnosis. You're a person that is dramatizing, that is living the example of what is going on." How do they think I deal with stress without going out into the streets with a baseball bat?
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
But a good dose of government oversight is exactly what is needed, says Rep. Joe Baca, D-California. He has been trying for three years to get legislation passed that would require the FTC to determine if the video game industry's labeling practices are unfair or deceptive.
The ESRB is finding itself under the scrutiny of political strife. I commend the ESRB President on her steadfastness and willingness to state "don't hold your breath".
The ESRB was developed by congress, however it is not a government operated entity. It does not conform to any government pre-sanctioned template of acceptable usage, and that is as it should be. In fact, ESRB ratings is not by law required to be placed on video games. Through its retailer acceptance however, retailers often _require_ that a game be ESRB rated; or they will not sell that game in their stores.
I believe the ESRB is doing a fine job in their approach at handling video game ratings. The whole kickoff of this political campaign was by Senator Clinton receiving a 'hacked' copy of a video game, that as I understand was attainable only through "less than acceptable" means. Tell the boys in the thinktank to get off the eMule servers and focus on the public released versions in use. They will find that the ESRB ratings are in keeping with the standards of the industry.
My Thoughts, Kyndig
(Assuming you're a Democrat...)
She may have lost your vote in the primaries, but let's face it -- when it comes down to it, and she's running against some Republican asshole whose position on video games is "Yeah, what she said, only more!", you'll hold your nose and vote for the bitch.
When the rating system became a requirement for the video game industry, everyone seemed to think that the system used for the motion picture industry would be adequate. However, the video game makers could not accept that because it would have been a major hit to their bottom line. So they put a few dollars into the legislative vending machine and out popped a pretty ambiguous rating system.
Instead of an "R" rating, we have "M" for mature. Of course, every parent would like to think that their child is mature. This probably increases sales, rather than decrease. Had the motion picture rating system been adopted, GTA would have an NC17 rating.
Thank your congressmen for half of the problem. I agree that the other half is the fault of the parents.
More
How exactly do they market to children.
Oh give me a fucking break. Have you ever opened a gaming magazine? Seen the fucking cartoon billboards? Seen the schwag that only a child would wear?
Honestly, it's like your totally happy letting Rockstar think for you.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
Really, this issue is getting tiresome. It isn't just parents, it is the ratings system and the developers too.
Yes, absolutely, it is the parents above all else who should be aware of what their children are playing and have them play things they feel are appropriate for their age.
But, the game industry is *not* helping them. And why should they as long as they can get away with it since they make that much more money because of it. The problems are:
- Games are not always properly rated
- Ratings are confusing(why not use the same system as the movie industry?)
- Stores don't enforce ratings, ever.
- Stores don't even advise on ratings hardly ever.
- There are so many games out there all jumbled together, for older parents who are not gamers themselves, its pretty much impossible to tell one thing from another.
Games need to be rated better, the ratings displayed much more prominently, and ratings checked with each sale. This isn't something hard to do and the game industry could do it without a problem, no government intervention needed. The problem is they aren't.
Developers are a problem too. I mean come on, Rockstar was an idiot with this whole sex game thing. They obviously didn't include it in the normal game because they felt it was too much. They should have never left that content in the game. And, if they are bound and determined to make an "adult" game, they need to stop being so half way about it and just make an adult content game.
The government is going to end up getting involved in this unless the industry gets their act together. It is amazing how much of a free pass the game industry has gotten so far actually compared to music and movies. They have been given ample opportunities to just do what they promised: "Self enforce a ratings system". And while I don't want government intervention any more than anyone else, its going to happen and soon if things don't change.
You are who you are, let no one tell you different. But, never close your mind to a new point of view.
because the sex scene is the primary point of debate over the rating. Prior to the patch, children could only violently murder people. After the patch, they could see a nipple. Apparently, the latter will do more harm to people than the former. Think of all the babies who have been mentally scared from having their eyes open while breast feeding.
This whole situation with the rating it overblown and politicians just continue to issue stupid statments like "we will get to the buttom of this" just to get their names in the news and so they will look like they are concerned... Sims had nude mods and there wasn't as much fuzz about it. The game is already rated strong sexual content. and the original off the shelf game doesn't have the sex mode.
Visit my site @ http://www.madtorrent.com
Now how exactly do they market to children , There marketing campaigns seem entirely standard amongst the entertainment industry for action movies/games .It just so happens that children love this stuff. ,20 somethings and beyond also respond to this stuff .
,comedic style and cultural references.
. .
Honestly remembering back when i was 13 or so (possibly older or younger i don't remember) I loved games like slaughter house , HKM and all manner of gore filled blood fests. Just so happens that teenagers
In my experience they do their best to make the games appeal to those of college age and beyond , typically in the music
Also i wouldn't call them idiots , have a look at the sales figures since this slipped out . The game won't get banned and this hype just makes people want it more
It's a calculated risk and its paying off. It may be food for censors , but its also food for the media
They eat this up , every sensationalist story about the game will drive the sales higher and higher.
Sure it was perhaps a slip to blame the modder , but i haven't really thought about that too much . It could have been another PR move
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Also, kids can get bored of new things quickly. This occurs when fantasy play time gets shittier, the more they realize that reality is only minutes away (bedtime).
Why? Because no one sells AO games. Block Buster, Circuit City, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, GameStop, etc don't sell AO games (as far as I know). Just like most theaters don't show NC17 movies.
So games that should be Adults Only like the GTA games (let your kids play them if you want, but it should be your decision since you'd have to buy it) don't get the rating because they wouldn't sell many places (GTA is large enough that it would probably get an exception, but think about other games like Manhunt or State of Emergency (which I think is MUCH worse than GTA)).
I think the solution is a new ratings classification. Either P (Pornographic), or X (eXplicit). Sex games go under those. Extremely violent wont-someone-think-of-the-children games would go under AO (which stores could sell without having to sell pornographic games) and then this problem would be closer to being fixed. You must be 18+ to buy an AO game (get legal enforcement behind that like the 17 or older rule for R movies).
Now, I realize that enforcement for R movies isn't perfect (and often VERY shoddy). And I'm only talking about GTA with the violence and "minimal" sex (before Hot Coffee). With the Hot Coffee content in there, my opinion would be it should go under P or X. Without it, AO. Whether you agree with my views or not, that's my theory; and I think it would at least help.
On a side note: what is wrong with Rockstar? Surely SOMEONE must have thought it would be a good idea to REMOVE THAT UNUSED CONTENT off the discs? That would have solved all this. The only reason I can think of for it to be left on there is either 1) they were going to use it later or 2) they wanted it to be found. They hung themselves on this one (over-reactions not withstanding).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
As long as you can be drafted at 18 and shipped off to a foreign country to shoot strangers, I think you can handle a videogame with an M rating.
Esoteric reference.
They're trying to scapegoat some modder...
Who can prove it's not the modder who's lying? Talk about jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
The scenes are in the PS2 version as well and easily unlocked.
What about the theatre?
Once, for theatre class, I had to play a character who "liked little girls. Girlfriend: You mean, little women? Me:No, little girls." I was "dramatizing, living the example" that was layed out in the script for me. I was training how to *be* that guy, who just so happened to have a penchant for very young ladies...
How is are video games like GTA subjected to such reviews when there are so many plays with such infinitely more disturbing content that people not only like, but consider classics? Which is worse, letting a child play a game where he goes on a game-long mission of killing all the drug dealers that have been destroying his town (the *PLOT* of GTA:SA), or letting a child read/see a play where the main idea behind it his the worthlessness of mankind, the pointlessness of existence, or something like that?
Think about the horrible things that could happen to the mind of an impressionable child if he reads something post-modern, but doesn't quite get the whole self-liberation part of it. Or hell, if he reads something modern and *does* get it! Just like playing this game, I wouldn't let my child read something like that without *my guidance*.
A little more realistically, what about Tom Clancy? I remember one of his books, the one where Clark goes and kills a bunch of drug dealers (can't remember the name...), has the same basic idea of GTA:SA. Hookers being beaten, raped, and killed. A vigilante going out and killing drug dealers in horrible, horrible ways (the decompression chamber?). No one said a damn thing about that. I managed to check it out my middle school library (I went to an uptight, north-easter style private school in the heart of Texas, the Gay-Straight Alliance wasn't allowed official club recognition even though half the faculty were members because they were afraid of parental retribution) without anyone saying a thing. That is, until my dad read it when I was through with it and banned me from reading Tom Clancy for a few years (which I completely ignored...).
How is GTA any worse?
No trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
Parents have a responsibility, wether they like it or not.
SYS 64738
I'd like to reiterate an earlier point about how ludicrous our country is when it comes to sex vs. violence. I mean, come on people. Without this sex mod, GTA encourages gang warfare and random acts of violence and depicts them luridly and without reservation, blood spilling on the streets. We all know there was no outrage for this. But then we get this 3rd party complicated sex mod and NOW there's an outrage? You mean two people are having sex? NOOOOOOOOO!!!! It makes me sick. I'm going to get my M16 and shoot somebody.
Take responsibility? They did, they put a big M on the front cover [and prolly the back too].
What? Are they supposed to go out and say "our game sucks because it has violence, please buy it!"... Fuck you. The game is hella fun and a good way to pass some downtime.
I don't "love rockstar" but I also hate hypocritical kneejerk "concerned parents" who want to make hell for everyone else because they fear things they don't understand.
You know what? It's fun to drive 90mph down a dessert road and bump a car off the road. It's fun to hear the cartoon "splut" as you hit someone. It's fun to open fire on cartoony looking cars and make them explode. It's funny that cars explode when upside down. It's cool how much detail there is. It's cool how well the entire world works together in the game, characters seem to be alive, etc...
It's a good game with a lot of work put into not just the graphical bits [e.g. violence] but the AI, structures, etc...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
What the heck are you talking about. Its an effin gaming magazine, flip through it and you'll see more jugs and scantly clad women ,who do those cater to kids as well?
Not exactly sure what specific ad your talking about but the shit I see for the GTA SA ads have been the game artwork of the main character or various characters mixed in with screenshots.
If there is an ad with fuzzy bunnies and lollypops with grover and elmo bustin caps and fuckin bitches then i'd like to see it.
"I am a kernel in the linux army"
What legal enforcement is there behind the R rating besides that it's illegal to show/sell porn to people under 18?
Who can prove it's not the modder who's lying? Talk about jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
Anyone who looks at the data files shipped by Rockstar. If there is content (art, data, scripts, etc) or code specifically for that scene in their game then they are trully idiots and deserve be financially reamed by retailers who should return all copies on their shelves for a refund and demand replacement copies with the offending data and/or code removed. No government involvement is necessary.
Well... Not as such, anyway. The "mod" is re-enabling stuff that was left in the game but just sorta edited out.
That is, they originally programmed the Hot Coffee stuff in there in the first place, then added code later to cause it to skip that bit. The "mod" just makes it not skip that bit.
How do we know this? Because there are codes for the PS2 version (using a Game Shark or whatever the equivalent is) to do the same basic thing: re-enable these hidden mini-games.
This isn't stuff added by the hack, it's stuff re-enabled by the hack.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
"They know very well that if it said "Adults Only" these would not be displayed at a Target, at a Wal-Mart or any of the other video game (retailers), because they wouldn't be sold," Baca said in an interview."
I wonder if this is true. Since Wal-Mart's a business, and GTA games are one of the highest top selling games, would they not carry it because of an AO rating? I don't think so. It would take some sort of parent lobby group to do that (and then it would already be too late). 12-17 year olds would get that game one way or another, whether it's through older brothers, cousins, other family members, older friends, copies etc.
I'm fully in agreement with the people who would say it's the parents' resposibility to monitor these things for their children. The question is:
* Do these sorts of games cause problems for the children and society?
* If the parents don't do anything about these games, then do we just let the damage happen anyway?
* Do parents have increasingly less control over what their kids do?
We have to accept that these days that between single parents and two parents at work, there's less parental supervision going on. Even when there is that supervision, there's more ways for kids to get around it. I know my parents banned me from R-movies when I was young. However, all I had to do was go over to my friend's house to see the movie I missed. Unless most parents are on-board, then even the most conscientious parents are going to have a problem.
I think it's going to be unproductive to have a law to legislate ratings for games, but at the same time, IF it is determined that media like this does have this effect (and I've seen both sides), then we need to clamp down on it in an effective way. The preferred and more effective way will be a culture shift away from this sort of thing, and if the law is going to work on this problem, it needs to encourage that shift, rather than simply trying to pull every weed that pops up.
However, the important thing to grasp is that if we don't work to voluntarily deal with this, then a backlash law WILL pop up. Enough of these kind of laws and you have your police state/theocracy/whatever, and it will be 100% our fault for allowing it. You can't go on simply pushing the bounds of what is allowable, just because it is possible, or you start breaking down support for free speech and creativity. If that happens one too many times, you will eventually find someone who will want to severely limit those freedoms in the name of something, and there will be enough people who are just tired enough of the excesses that they allow it to happen.
Let them make their own decisions.
This is the most fundamental principle of liberty.
The information is a self-explanatory game ratings.
The decision is whether or not to buy this or allow your child to play it.
I know, I know. Precious Little Johnny (er.. Taylor or Tyler or Hayden or whatever the hell you people name your kids these days) leaves and goes over to his friend's house and plays GTA on little Mikey's (er... Connor or Tanner) computers, and he's out of your control. Well, it's your job as the parent to go meet Mikey's mother and find out if you can trust her to oversee your child for a few hours.
My girlfriend's son came home the other day and bragged about how his aunt let him play a game that was rating "M". He wanted to throw it in Mom's face that he got to play one. That landed his ass banned from his Game Boy for about a week and then she didn't know what to do. "How do I get him to make good decisions?" I suggested that the KID be made to go talk to Aunt Ignorant and that HE explains to her that he's not allowed to play rated M games and that he should have told her the game was rating M, but he made a bad choice. The kid did it, Aunt Ignorant was horrified at her transgression, and said that it just never crossed her mind.
I promise you that if it was a movie, Aunt Ignorant would have thought about it, but video games are "kid's stuff" to that generation, so it's not part of their decision-making to consider that the game could be inappropriate.
Anyway, the point is that my old lady is responsible for her child and trying to teach him how to make good decisions by turning situations like this into learning opportunities for her son. And that's a hell of a lot better for a kid than having some paternal-minded windbag like Senator Clinton spending our tax money on investigating how in the world a video game that is intended and rated for adults ended up having adult-only content.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame games for things people do. But the fact is that once a kid's 12 or so they're quite capable of going out and buying the games for themselves, and probably hiding them from their parents. I think it would make sense to say shops can't sell these games to anyone who looks underage without ID. Parents can buy them for their kids if they're willing to let them have them, if not the kids can probably get them anyway but we've done all that's reasonable, if the child's willing to go to that length they're probably already too far gone.
I am trolling
They will modify and censor CD's movies and magazines to make sure they fit their "family values".
You're not likely to intimidate Walmart with threats.
"Devils? Oh no! They're worshipping SATAN!"
I dislike it when such people fail to realize that the majority of people are capable of telling the difference between what is real and what is not. Regardless of whether you're a psycho in a video game, you still know that murder is wrong and you'd be punished severly for it. Anyone who cannot tell the difference between a video game and real life needs professional help.
Remember the RSAC when they still rated video games? They had a different method, whereby the content of a game was rated in four categories: language, sexual situations, violence, and... I can't remember the last one. It's been too long.
But I liked it because parents could decide "My child can handle himself around violence, but I don't want him looking at nudie pics" and know what the game has.
It was more specific than giving a letter, and didn't preach on age levels. It simply gauged the content and let parents decide what was appropriate.
I'm so glad we have these politicians to tell me I've been hypnotized by playing these games all these years... here I thought I was just having a good time, but really I'm not... they just make me think I am! Ooooh the horror! 50's - 70's -- Rock Music 80's -- Dungeons&Dragons 90's+ -- Video Games Will the scapegoats never end?
"f there is an ad with fuzzy bunnies and lollypops with grover and elmo bustin caps and fuckin bitches then i'd like to see it."
Elmo "Elmo Loves ho "
Big bird "what you say about my mamma"
*Big bird ices Elmo*
*The grouch rushes to the scene*
The grouch "ELMOOOOOOOOOOO"
*big bird flees*
The grouch "I am going to find you Big bird and bring down you for the good of the street biotch"
And so begins GTA Sesame street
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
This whole thing smacks of what the music industry experienced with the "explicit" sticker that is put on CDs. Essentially, it looks like the govn't is trying to say what should / should not be played by people....
You are so wrong. Ratings and stickers for movies and music keep the government out. Your "explicit" sticker is simply a tool that lets the parents make a quick "no" decision if they are so inclined. These stickers do not prevent any adult from buying any product. The game industry is, and should be, following this model. For those of you who are too young to know any better that "explicit" sticker basically stopped Al Gore's wife Tipper from generating dumb-ass laws that would have gotten government involved.
where is the emmulation of games like Crash Bandicoot? I see no kids jumping on/smashing wooden crates, jumping from ledges with jet-packs and so on...
I played Asteroids, yet I have never tried to shoot things out of the sky...
How many millions of copies of Doom, Quake, Unreal*, tekin, halo, and GTA have been sold over the years? and how many nut jiobs have acted out?
If a kid commits a crime and says "the playstation made me do it!!!" I say toss him in the assylem and toss ihis parents in the slammer for neglect (not getting help when they noticed the problem, letting him play stuff that is not appropreate for them and just being lazy fucktarts in general).
And when in the high hell are these beuracrats gonna look at the MPAA and local cinimas? I see TONS of little kids in R-rated flicks all the time...it makes me mad because they often have an outburst and I cant help but wonder what it does to them.
If a kid is born to irresponsable slackers and they let the kid see/play this crap and it does influence them, ARREST THE MUTHER FUCKING PARENTS! HOW DARE THEY PUYNISH SOCIETY/AN INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE
Out of curosity, what happens if a publisher/developer decides not to have the game rated by ESRB? Will retail outlets still sell the game?
No they wont. Not big ones anyways.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
The 'Mature' rating has always been a reasonably bad way to classify a game; but how playing 'Mature' games became acceptable adult behavior is similar to a variety of other behaviors. In general, the Restricted rating on movies, Adult only nature of pornography, the age restrictions on alcohol and smoking, and the 'Mature' ratings on games were put in place because the acts involved with these products were potentially detrimental and (when taken to excess) are very imature actions. Most people who think of someone who watches endless amounts of pornography, drinks excessively, smokes a package of cigarettes a day, and refuses to play videogames that not 'Mature, think that they are immature and childish. In contrast a 13 year old thinks that if they're not allowed to do some thing by doing it they are acting in a mature fashion.
The reality of the situation is that the most mature games (if there is such a thing) are those that are rated E (or at most Teen) and can excite the mind of an adult.
Every time the ESRBs are brought up I am reminded of Mortal Kombat; a ton of copies of this game were sold simply because it was more graphic and violent than other fighting games. At the time Mortal Kombat was released it wasn't that good of a game; Street Fighter was a far better game. The Media (and politicians) all ganged up against Mortal Kombat and talked about how it was warping the minds of a generation, thereby giving it a ton of free press. In all honesty, if it wasn't for the imature attitudes of teenagers and the over-reaction of the Media I suspect that Mortal Kombat wouldn't have sold that well; and without these initial games I suspect that the 'we'll push the limits on violence to sell more games' attitudes of certain developers would not exsist.
*sticks hand up in agreement* . Amazing that politicians have nothing better to do than regulate the gaming industry:). I've never been a fan of any content ratings at all, but I'm also not a fan of the current administrations conservative viewpoint towards all this. So a fifteen year old see's some skin in a video game, big deal. It's time for the government to get back into its assigned role and stop meddling in our personal affairs
"The boy is dangerous, they all sense it, why can't you?"
It devalues sex as a commodity and puts the woman's sexuality into her own control. In this context, killing the prostitute is not only acceptable, it's preferable. The prostitute is doing something wrong (taking control of her own sex), and gets punished. It's a morality play.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
This is because such a division is fundamentally successful. You can go back to the Federalist/Jeffersonian Democractic-Republican split: While other issues like abolition and international strategy waited in the wing (and eventually emerged), political debate remained more or less single-issue.
You see, by having one or two issues on which you base decisions (and being willing to negotiate away the rest), should you get your guy elected you can make a great impression on these one or two things that really matter. This system benefits from the fact that Americans conveniently tend to recognise the same issues as important (Abolition, Abortion, civil rights).
Those who didn't share first-tier issues with a major party traditionally sacrificed them in favor of second-tier issues shared by a wider base. This seems to have broken down in recent years, hence the rise of the Third Party.
It never ceases to fascinate me the way that "liberal" is a word whose definition is created and defined by absolutely everyone except whoever the liberals themselves are supposed to be. Ever notice that? Practically no one ever stands up and says "I am a liberal, because I believe this". We just get people going "you are a liberal, because you believe [blah]". The word is starting to be like "commie" or "nazi"; it isn't a political category, it's an insult.
Also fascinating that Bob Dole and George W. Bush are apparently "modern liberals". Who knew?
Why not choose some less ambiguous terms to describe Hilary Clinton, like "socially conservative"? Or why not just ditch the idiotic "liberal/conservative" dichonomy altogether, stop playing shell games with words that may or may not mean the same thing to different people, and discuss things in terms that actually describe what is going on? Here, I'll give you an example:
Hillary Clinton supports media censorship and is not worthy of anyone's support. If anyone looks at this in terms of "she's just lost my vote", then this means they weren't paying attention 10 years ago, because she's always been like this.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I think you hit the nail on the head. Rockstar and other game companies are doing exactly what music labels and movie producers have been doing for years. They know how difficult it is for parents to control what their children hear, see, and play. They know what titilates teenagers, a market with tremendous disposable income and the time to spend it.
Of course Rockstar can't control who plays their games, regardless of how they are labelled. But it could also be said that as a purveyor of wildly successful games, they have a responsibility beyond the bottom line. I find it bothersome that people get on Slashdot and bash the crap out of Microsoft, Apple, IBM, et. al. for their business maneuverings, but the moment anyone cries foul at the games industry, the shield goes up and everyone rallies around companies that promote murder, misogyny, theft, and a host of other sociopathic behaviors.
I'm not in favor of legislation forcing Rockstar and other game companies to change their games. I think the rating system could use better enforcement. I also think game companies are out for big money, and they don't really give a rat's ass about the effect their games have on society.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
> But Rockstar also needs to stop whining and take responsibility for their games. They're trying to scapegoat some modder, deny that there is pornographic code in the game, etc. They lie.
The "pornographic code" contains scenes of sex where the participants don't even take off their clothes.
The hotcoffee mod adds content, specifically some naked textures for the female models. They couldn't even be bothered to mod CJ. Probably because modding the mesh is hard, and it would take some extra polygons in an area where CJ is no doubt modelled like a Ken doll.
Congress is wagging its jowls over a hacked copy of a game. This is the best thing the leaders of our country can do with their time.
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Most of the posts here, presumably, will be of the "blame the parents" variety, many, I suspect, from children themselves.
But, such attempts to exonerate game makers for playing to the purient interests of children. Sure, responsible parents ought to ensure that their kids don't buy or play any game they think is inappropriate. But, frankly, parents cannot accompany their kids on every trip to the mall and they certainly cannot stop their kids from playing any game they choose at a friend's home.
The people who make and market games have as much responsibiility for the impact of their products as do the people who make and market heroin, tobacco, or assault weapons.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Rise? The cadaverous fellow from recent years (who acted just like he was being paid by the Republicans), and the "little feller" before him could only act as spoilers.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I really don't think Clinton gives a damn about this issue. She's using that DLC triangulation strategy to garner support among fence sitters and Democratic leaning cultural conservatives so that she (and the party) can say that Democrats care about the Culture Wars too. It's classic political opportunism, little else.
had provided the unlocked content to the ESRB it would have been rated AO (Adults-Only), and they would have lost the precious Walmart and Target shelf-space.
Ok so has anyone here played God of War? That game has more titties then in any rated R movie I've seen and yet it's only rated M also. So why aren't people mad about that game? Because its content is well known before you even play the game.
The argument can be made that even if a parent was to review GTA before they let there child play, it would do no good. It's not like they explain in the manual how to unlock the sexual content. How would the parent know that it's there?
Of course parents should be involved and control the games that they let their children play but the problem comes in when the questionable content is "smuggled" into the game. The parents should know about and stop their children if they're Googling for "GTA nude hack" but what happens if they get the information from a different source, like a friend at school?
I think in this instance Rockstar is the one to blame because the ESBR and the parents had no *reasonable* way of knowing. Key word being reasonable, I would says it's not reasonable to say parents should be scowering internet forums for hacks that might unlock undesirable content. And also it's not like they give the source code to the ESBR, so it's not like they could have figured out the hack in the time they review the game.
goddamn people are stupid.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Yeah, mod the parents DOWN!
Here's how I think about the current ratings fiasco:
For years video games rated by the ESRB have had short explanations which tell you exactly why the game recieved the rating that it did. Recently, the movie industry began to do the same. To me, this indicates that the game industry in fact is doing a better job with their system than the movie industry. Not only that, but you can go to many many many stores and rent/buy R rated movies, no matter what your age. So what's the deal here? Why on Earth are we so content to put down the video game industry. I don't really CARE what kind of bullsh*t is flying around, at least we can fling mud where mud is due. Or is that just too much to ask in a society where politics is not driven by anything close to what is good for the country, but only what is good for the candidate.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
Apparently she's borrowed Tipper Gore's playbook!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Sadly I must side with the government. I used to play Math Blaster when I was young, then one day in high school I snapped and blaster my math teacher with my parents gun. I blame the video games, and now I am stuck spending 25 years in jail. Please think of the children like me.
Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.
Amen, brother. Instead of pioneering in space, we're gonna be stuck down here because everyone is to damned worried about their bread and circuses. I don't want to go on a rant here, but people practically shit themselves at the sight of a tit, but say nothing about the tremendous violence (real and simulated) that's portrayed everyday on the television. We need some fucking priorities straightened.
Can you just see it? First, Tipper Gore went bonkers on the music industry. Now, a few newer idiots, getting a helping hand from Hillary "My husband can't keep it in his pants" Clinton, is going after video games. There's no reason the GTA series shouldn't have gotten an AO in the first place. But, there are so many grey areas when it comes to this kind of thing. And, if it was a movie, it would get rated R, no matter how much the violence. Personally, I think it is comical that you can show hundreds of folks getting gunned down in cold blood, often for no reason at all, and the movie is R. But, you show too much T&A, and it's NC-17. Seen the "Kill Bill" movies? I remember in one scene, Uma Thurman's character cuts off a guy's arm, and the blood spurts like 20'. Funny thing is, on a clean amputation like that, the arteries tend to "snap back" into the body to an extent, and most amputations don't bleed anything close to that. So, the spurting blood was for shock effect, and not a sense of realism. But, darn, that's just good movietime! Rating, R. But, if right after that, she had unzipped her top to bare her breasts, tweaked her nipples, and said "I hate when I get blood on my boogs. It makes them sticky" and then licked it off, NC-17. Gotta wonder where it ends. There are no black and whites. It's all grey, baby!
Classic examples: Legalize marijuana, but make it illegal as hell to drive while intoxicated by marijuana because it's the intoxicated driving that directly injures other people, not the actual intoxication.
A 2002 review of seven separate crash culpability studies involving 7,934 drivers reported, "Crash culpability studies [which attempt to correlate the responsibility of a driver for an accident to his or her consumption of a drug and the level of drug compound in his or her system] have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes"
There has been a move in the UK to make driving while under the influence of canabis illegal ON TOP of simple possesion, and they had a study comparing the effects of alcohol, canabis and sleep deprivation to justify their new law.
They were dismayed that canabis not only didn't seem to impair driving, but that the test subjects were actually performing better "high" than "sober". Not only that, but sleep deprivation turned out to be much more devastating on driving skills than alcohol intoxication, yet they weren't making a law againts that.
The one thing that bugs me the most about this whole thing (aside from the idea that consentual sex is worse than random acts of murder) is all the talk of "explicit" sex. Have these people never seen a porno? That's explicit sex. This is just badly-drawn simulated dry-humping, not even as "explicit" as can be seen on late-night cable TV most nights of the week.
If you answered, the parent, did the parent bother researching the game, understanding the reasoning and similar instances that had brought about the ESRB system, or did they just decide to give Li'l Billy whatever he wanted to stop complaining.
If the game was sold to the child directly, then investigate the business that sold mature-rated game to the child to begin with.
If none-of-the-above, rant hysterically.
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
The people who make and market games have as much responsibiility for the impact of their products as do the people who make and market heroin, tobacco, or assault weapons.
Post says: Videogames are the same as 2 addictive substances that can kill you with an overdose, and weapons.
That ignorant piece of nonsense get moderated up?
We elect fucking idiots.
I mean, seriously, why is there so much outrage for something that wasn't originally in the game?
They can't use common fucking sense, and along with their technological illiteracy, they can't realize that someone else, non-affiliated with Rockstar, modified the game to unlock this.
Besides, the game is already rated M. M is 17+. How old do you have to be to legally buy porn? *gasp* 18.
The only problem here is the number of complete fucking imbeciles that we elect to power.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
OK, let me put it this way.
1. GTA:SA is already rated 17+, so no-one under seventeen can purchase it.
2. GTA:SA isn't being displayed in public, it is only being used at home in private.
3. GTA:SA doesn't even contain the stuff that people are screaming about... you can only view the content after you apply a third party modification.
4. The sex is so tame and non-offensive, with a fully clothed character, that any kind of outrage over it is pure insanity.
Now, if the government can get involved in a case, where a product sold only to adults can be MODIFIED to do something so completly non-offensive, then there is no speech that is safe from government intervention.
Don't decieve yourself. If you support Hillary Clinton and the other totalitarian politicians who are upset about this crap, you are against freedom of speech and expression. Period. End of story. Saying you are not is like saying "I am against War, but I support bombing country X". There is no way you can take the side against rockstar games and call yourself pro-free-expression. To deny you are pro-government-censorship is to say "war is peace", and "freedom is slavery".
So what can we do about this nonsense? What can I do to help ensure that congress quits wasting their time on meaningless crap like this and focuses on real problems? Where is our ACLU and ALA for video games? How can we remind senators and voters that this same exact thing happened with comic books in the 60s and it failed?
What can I do to stop these immoral twisted politicians and psychotically controlling parents from wrecking our freedom to play violent and sexual video games?
I think its good that they're taking the stance that its not for kids rather than some wacko senators trying to ban it. More to the point, if you buy this game for your kids and then your kids go and shoot people, there is absolutely, ZERO, NON, NO MOTHER FUCKING WAY you have any right to blame the game or its creators, if anything your child is retarded (im sorry to break it to you but millions of kids have been able to play violent video games at a young age without negative effects) and you are very much to blame for your parenting. Don't try and fob the blame off to the kid who works at the game store, sure he has part of the blame but your part for being a fucking crap parent overshadows all. If you're not ready to have kids and give them the attention they need then don't, you can use contraception, the morning after pill, hell if you're Catholic or Christian and have issues with condoms there's that whole abstinence method - practice what you preach you fuck tards.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
...quit your sanctimonious carping about "parenting skills".
I'm perfectly happy to actively parent my children, thank you. I would be a bit more effective in my use of time if I didn't have to bit-level scan the freaking game disks looking for little zingers left in by the media companies but never mentioned nor accounted for, before feeling comfortable letting my kid play it. What's the point of a rating system then? Yet Rockstar agreed to play by one. Apparently, pretty lazily.
Of course, with your mindset, even if I did Google everyone of my kids' games, you'd complain about what a facist, untrusting authoritarian parent I am, wouldn't you?
And your 'R'-rated movie anology? Ludicrous. A better analogy would be if, after accompanying my kids to a R-rated movie, we sit down and, 10 minutes in, the lost reel of "Debbie Does Dallas" appears.
If you're going to bother adhering to a rating system, at least try to play by the rules you're accepting, however grudgingly. Is the rating system inconvenient for Rockstar (and other media companies)? Probably. Is it an absolute barrier to doing work? Hell, no. Deal with it--they'd still do quite fine, without the simulated shagging.
I'm quite comfortable letting my kids experience anything they're prepared to handle. But they're not prepared to handle everything they might actually be exposed to, at any given age. And if you believe that they can, regardless of age and credulity, you're either not a parent or you're a fool.
Not if you sit on a fire ants mound...
My Gawd WTF...
It amazes me the hypocracy that goes on here. A majority of the posts whine and complain about the government getting involved, then insist that parents who make the informed choice that their child can understand the difference between real and imaginary are somehow bad people.
When you take the stance that letting your kids play these games are inherently wrong, and that parents would only let their kids play them if they are failing at being a parent, you are screaming for legislation.
It's great that they put some kind of information on the box. But, the real key is in teaching kids the difference between real and fantasy.
I'm still amazed how many parents whine about content, then let their kids watch Shrek 2 over and over again just because it is rated PG. This is the movie that is loaded with sex and violence, including a scene where a woman walks in on a guy sucking his own cock!
Starting tomorrow all registers at CompUSA will prompt the cashier to ask the customer for verification that they are able to purchase any product that would fit into a category requiring an age check. While 'we' were always told to ask, not everyone did when it came to mature purchases such as movies or vidoe games. This does not make it 100% certain that it will happen, but boosts the chances.
I moderd that over-rated , I am clearly retarded and a troll :D :D :D :D We iz a terror
* Does teaching children that government censorship is ok cause problems for children and society?
* If the parents don't do anything about this censorship, then do we just let the damage happen anyway?
* What age was considered a child historically, as opposed to the last century? Do parents have increasingly less control over what their 15 year old does?
didn't god of war already have a similar sex game - and you didn't have to unlock it.
not only that, but again, the game is already rated M for mature. most stores don't allow children under 17 to buy the game the only legislation i would agree with would be to require ID for kids under 17.
let's just hope that the government doesn't take over the actual rating system.
Both ratings systems, video game and movie, are 100% voluntary and totally created by the industry, without legslative mandidate. The thought was if you self regulate, you can avoid the government stepping in and forcing regulation.
There are plenty of movies out there that are unrated, as in they were never submitted to the MPAA for rating. That's perfectly legal and they are sold all the time. Some are like Van Wilder, in it's orignal form the movie was to get an NC-17, so they made changes suggested by the MPAA to get an R rating. The orignal was released on DVD as an unrated film (you can also buy the R rated version if you like). Some are simply small/indie works that never bother to submit for rating. They aren't NC-17 material or anything, they just do not bother to get rated.
Likewise with videogames. The industry created the ESRB to rate games. Now they had to come up with their own system, the MPAA system is copyrighted and trademarked up the ass so only the MPAA can use it. The ESRB system is likewise, that's how they prevent people from misuing their ratings logos, it's their trademark and you'll get sued for using it without permission.
Hence the different ratings. Had they used the film ratings, the MPAA would have come after them. So they made their own manifestly similar system with different names, letters and a different logo style.
It's all voluntary, including on the part of the stores. Most stores voluntairly choose to stock only ESRB rated games. If you game is unrated the simply will decline to stock it. Also most voluntairly check ID on rated M games and refuse sale to minors. None of this is mandidated.
So stop jerking your damn knee for a second and get the facts.
http://www.filmratings.com/
http://www.esrb.org/
We should actually encourage people to have guns... particularly on airplanes. I mean, say you got a terrorist on an airplane. If everyone's packin, he'll think twice before brandishing that nail file in a menacing manner.
The ESRB said that if the Hot Coffee mini-game had been rated, it would have been given an AO rating.
- a huge budget deficit
- thousands of people without health insurance dying each year from treatable illnesses
- a war in Iraq and Afghanistan that at this point looks like it has no end, killing thousands of US soldiers (both KIAs and other theater related deaths) and over 100k (by some counts) Iraqis
- "Plan Columbia" that is pissing off most Columbians, causing everything from birth defects to cancer and destabilizing a good chunk of South America
- Decent, full-time manufacturing jobs being replaced with poor paying, part-time service jobs (many with no health insurance)
- the "War on Drugs" which costs over 60 billion USD each year with little to no results.
- public schools that are crumbling right before their very eyes and the best they can do is "No Child Left Behind", which is a piss poor program that is grossly underfunded.
Gay marriage yesterday, "Hot coffee" today, Bush's announcement of his SCOTUS replacement (which he'll make tonight) next week. It's all "bread and circus" to the US Congress. Most of them only care about their $158k to $203k USD paycheck and getting all the shit they can steal without getting caught.
Fuck'em. They're doing it to you.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
So let's say, hypothetically, that the video game did indeed cause the child some sort of irreperable harm; damaged its mind in some way, or what have you. Wouldn't the more logical solution be to bring the parents up on charges of child abuse or neglect? Granted that's pretty extreme, but no more so than blaming game manufacturers for violent games. That'd be like blaming the porn industry for your 16-year-old son going out and getting some 16-year-old girl pregnant. Logic, anyone?
My question, then, "Why did the company distribute its titles to Toys R US. That's exactly where my wife got a copy for our 8-year-old son. And, yes, I did return it and ask them why they should have any part of teaching my son that it's cool to murder cops and beat up girls with short skirts, aka prostitutes.
The company can't have it both ways. They can't claim it's for mature adults, then sell it to kids from every possible distribution means possible, including Toys R Us.
What gets me is the game has been out for a while and the government was only mildly concerned with the violence and mayhem. Hell, games where the main objective is to kill everything in sight have been around for a while. But as soon as there is some nudity or sexual situation, the government freaks out.
I am saddened by the message this sends. okay kids, be good little soldiers and kill things, but for the love of God, don't do anything that involves your nasty bits.
Please don't even think about drinking until you're 21.
-Valiss
If they find out that Rockstar put the sex scene in the game with the intention of leaking the hot coffee hack later, there is a problem. However, assuming that it is what I think it is, a deleted scene, people just need to get over it. This is like attacking the Maxis because of the nude patch in the Sims. Sure, sims have boobs, but Maxis never meant for you to see them.
i mean really, these games are expensive. where is the money coming from for these games. most hot new titles are in the $40-50 range. most kids i know don't have that kind of cash from taking out the garbage. so who is buying them?
most major game stores won't sell games rated higher than their esrb to children. so it is either 1) that they are getting them from their friends who either have big bros/sisters or are just rotten parents or 2) parents are just blindly buying what the kids wants to shut them up or are thinking they are good parents because they provide the children with what they want.
i would imagine it is a combination of those in most cases. parents buying things thinking "gee, they can't sell something sort of adult oriented in game stores" and then get surprised when they find out what is in the game. sort of like what has happened in the world of comics for many, many years.
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
Rockstar's real motive:
1. Re-release GTA:SA without 'Hot Coffee' content. Retains M rating.
2. Release GTA:SA+HC with 'Hot Coffee' content included, active and playable. Earns AO rating.
3. PROFIT!!!!
...the government doesn't have better things to do, than to crack down on sex in games, in a mature rate game, when there could be other potential problems at hand.
THIS IS THE INTERNET. PLEASE PICK UP YOUR SERIOUS BUSINESS SUIT AT THE FRONT COUNTER.
I still don't get the huge deal over this. Okay, so we push the game up to an AO rating..now what? Oh, that's right, now you have to be 18 or older to buy it compared to 17. You think the difference of one year will make the game any less available to children? As if the parents that bought the mature rated game for their kids aren't going to suddenly stop and thing if it says AO on it.
Hmmm...
I'm looking at my copy of GTA:SA right now...
There's a big "M" on the front, with the "Mature 17+" above it. On the back it has the same "M" and further lists specifics:
"Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs"
Now, I'm looking at my DVD copy of "A Clockwork Orange" which features scenes much more graphic than anything in GTA:SA...
There's nothing on the front describing the content. If you look closely at the back cover, towards the bottom, there is a small square with the letter "R" in it, with no explanation of what that means.
CLINTON LIED!
This really sucks, if I had it my way, all game developers would boycott the ESRB tomorrow. I've hated the rating thing since it started.
Ok, let me put it this way, I was 9 or 10 when I first played Doom, and ever since the FPS genre has been my favorite, but I have not ONCE seriously thought about killing any one, because my PARENTS actually taught good from bad as a kid. Also, most stores here in Iowa (at least in smaller town Iowa) actually check to make sure the customer is old enough to buy this stuff, but that doesn't stop the parents from buying it. The problem does come down to the parents, AND the stores, but I think they are doing enough already, and we don't need the government stepping in. If that happens, its not going to help at all, the kids can still go to an older friend, and give them the money to get it, just like they can and do for smokes and alcohol.
I don't know everything.
I don't know that this would help that much.
In Canada, there is already legal enforcement that you are not allowed to sell an NC-17 game to a person under the age of 17. This might be true for other countries as well.
This doesn't stop under 17 year old kids from buying it though, they just get their parents to give the cashier the nod. Most parents don't seem to realize that video games can contain potentially violent or innapropriate content.
My wife and I, both ex-Futureshop (like Best Buy) employees, used to go out of our way to convince people not to let their kids by NC-17 games. We would explain that the game is rated NC-17, explain that it contained graphic violence, or explicit language, and explain that it contained adult themes. We would liken it to an R rated movie, or a CD with the Explicit Lyrics mark on it. Parents just let it go in one ear and out the other.
I think that we only twice received a reaction; both times it was when we compared the game to an R rated movie. The parents were temporarily shocked out of their head-nodding, and asked their kids why they were buying an R-rated game. The kids would say 'Johnny has it, I want to play online with him' and the parents would hand over the visa.
The wierd part is that Parents would often refuse to buy R rated DVDs or Explicit Lyric CDs.
If parents don't care, or don't listen, then the ratings do nothing.
(For the record, we tried to dissuade parents from buying the games as a personal challenge to see if we could do it, not because we had a problem with kids playing the games.)
Have anyone here even remotely considered the stance that your child is a self-aware sentient being, capable of making it's own decisions? Even if he/she might be lesser so than yourselves?
Most posters here that are concerned about the parents not "having control of their children" seem to percieve the children as inanimate objects, that only reacts blindly to what they are exposed to; incapable of thinking for themselves.
To simply forbid a child to play a game does not, in effect, work. The child _will_ play the game in question, and _will_ be exposed to *gasp* THE REAL WORLD (unless you manage to lock him/her up completley under your control. Witch would probably hurt the child more than playing the game.)
The parents role, and the only role the parent can ever hope to achieve, is to help the child find enlightenment through discussion and feedback.
The final choice lies with the child. To block information (concerning drugs, slaughter, the general agonies of mankind) from the child is just a bad excuse for parenting.
I think the inherent problem here is that video games don't get a vote. If they did, I'm sure there'd be politicians just as interested in absolving them as they are parents.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
She's the head of the ESRB.
Kind of a MILF if you ask me.
http://www.esrb.org/about_newsletters.asp
My favorite part is when the one worm comes in with a hammer mounted on a cart. Pure. Gold.