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How the ESRB Rates Games
Ant writes "Joystiq mentioned a short Slate story on how the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) reviews and rates games. (Seen on Blue's News.)"
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Not based on content added/unlocked by modders of course!
it's a complicated process mostly involving some bits of paper, a hat and a dart board.
No violence, swearing: For all
Violence, no blood, no swearing: 12
Violence with blood & swearing: 15
Extreme violence with blood & swearing: 18
Boobies: OH MY GOD 25 AT LEAST WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN??????
Well why wont they stock them, do they have a problem with making sure that the people buying them are over 18?
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A dark Cave. In the middle, a Caldron Boiling.
[Thunder. Enter the three Witches.]
FIRST WITCH.
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.
SECOND WITCH.
Thrice; and once the hedge-pig whin'd.
THIRD WITCH.
Harpier cries:--"tis time, 'tis time.
FIRST WITCH.
Round about the caldron go;
In the poison'd entrails throw.--
Toad, that under cold stone,
Days and nights has thirty-one
Swelter'd venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i' the charmed pot!
ALL.
Double, double, toil and trouble;
Fire, burn; and caldron, bubble.
And we all agree, rate this one E for Everybody!
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
This truly shows how the world has changed... but in a strange way. I'm sure everyone knows National Lampoons 'Vacation.' The movie was rated PG if I remember correctly. today, we are in a more liberal world with "sex, drugs and rock and roll" being more excepted... yet some video game ratings are getting people upset.
arl with a k - a blog of mine.
From the article
But by speaking with the raters in person, a company's representatives might learn, for example, that a particular character is probably a bit too busty for an "E."
Heck, a lot of the people on the street are a bit too busty for an E, so I guess we won't be seeing models like them in video games eh? This censorship must stop! We must stand up for the rights of well endowed computer generated game characters! Next they'll be picking on the over or underweight. Where will it end?
Okay, okay, it's a slow day...
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Since when are bigger breasts considered to be offensive? Kids aren't supposed to know that some women have larger breasts than others? Are we really corrupting a kid's mind when he sees a sexy woman (not naked, not scantily clothed, just busty) in a game?
It's kinda OT... but I prefer the more readable Pan European Game Information (www.pegi.info). Their base tag displays a more readable 3+ (for 3 years old and more) and so on.
:) I'm a Nintendo maniac. :D
I'm 31 years old... and still prefer the 3+ games.
Home of Faramir Paint Shop Pro scripts
Blue's News is an old Quake news site that's hung around and generalized itself.
Most people who were big into Quake know about it.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
It is always comforting that the Video Game industry started a group to make parents feel safe in a system that still lets a 5 year old buy Grand Theft Auto. I really wish the liqour companies had figured this one of these systems when I was in High School.
You make fun of France once and your Karma is never the same...
5 moderation levels saying which age is appropriate.
1. Is there sex (S) in it? If yes, 18+
2. Is there excisive violance (V) and S in it, well, 18+, V only no S 12+
3. Is there S,V and bad language (L) in it, 18+, L only is 6+
4. Is it all in another language than dutch (so subtitle bad language only): All ages.
5. Is it done by a famous actor/singer/director, then it must be art, so 12+ whatever happens (for example Spielbergs movie "Schindlers list", rated 12+)
In other words: How fine is the line which is being drawn?
What not mentioned factors in the article will take care that something can be broadcasted at prime time anyway?
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
You can buy games with an M rating at 17. You can buy games with an Adult Only rating at 18. Evidently, that one year that spans the junior and senior years of high school makes all the difference in the world...
Well.
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
I had always assumed it was in some kind of formula based on kick-backs and relation of the producers to the members of the board.
Philosophy.
Wal-Mart has Low Prices but high Morale standards; they are based out of Arkansas for Sam's sake.
You make fun of France once and your Karma is never the same...
I'm not saying that all Americans are uptight. However there is a certain skewed view of sexuality versus violence in America. GTA SA gets a M rating for shooting police officers but some think it should be rated OA because of sex? How can sex be more offensive than violence?
UNIX/Linux Consulting
...If the game industry did the honourable thing and gave a fair share of their profits to the hard-working, democratically elected politicians. In fact, not only would this not be a problem, but if they all did a quick whip-around, they could out-bribe Wal-Mart and get legislation in place to force those shelves to be full of AO-rated violent sex-fests. Heck, get EA Montreal to send down some of that primo mary jane they've been bogarting and Bam! - a new war is started in some piss-pot hellhole and EA has exclusive rights to all games based on the conflict.
Or, alternatively, someone could actually use their fucking mind in all of this and get a decent, well-enforced rating system in place so the vile opportunists that are advancing on this industry will get nothing out of their perverted actions.
This comment was formatted for readability, but I forgot the line break tags
So this a Slashdot article, linking to a Blue's News article, linking to a Joystiq article linking to a Slate article about the ESRB? Wow, it's like the internet version of telephone...
In defense of the ESRB it should be pointed out that the violence and criminal activity in GTA is quite cartoonish and stylized, and given the overall feel of the game (the exaggerated car crashes, the tounge-in-cheek storylines, the the fact that the main character cannot die, hijacking firetrucks and earning money by putting out burning cars and pedestrians, skydiving out of moving jetliners, etc), not meant to be taken seriously, and thus, cannot be seen as detrimental to sensitive minds.
Sex, on the other hand, even cartoonish, unrealistic sex, is, for whatever reason, still sex, and remains a hot-button (giggle) issue.
This is a general theme in human culture. Stylized violence has always been more mainstream than sex (check out old Samurai movies and TV shows - lots of violence, not much sex; Indian action movies - lots of gunfights and fistfights, no sex; cowboy movies, the Iliad, Norse sagas, violence yes, sex, hardly... the list goes on and on).
"Wal-Mart has Low Prices but high Morale standards; they are based out of Arkansas for Sam's sake."
You forgot low business ethics. The employee wages, and tactics against employee rights is far more offensive to me than violence, naughty words, and nudity.
Is there perhaps a (B) rating for Bukkake?
How about (IB) for "inadvertent bukkake"? -- that is, stuff that looks pornographic, but is innocent?
I just wish someone big (e.g. Rockstar Games) would go unrated on their next big hit, thereby making the ESRB superfluous. They'd have to decide to either be cowed or be irrelevant.
If a kid has access to a computer, he's got access to porn. ESRB ratings don't help one bit.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Hillary comes home early from a hard days work. Bill is sitting naked on the living room floor, with PS2 game controler in one hand, and his [your name for shlong here] in the other
Hillary - Oh Bill, not again! WTF???
Bill - Oh uhh, baby it's not what it seems.
Hillary - Bill, you promised this wouldn't happen again. Where is she?
Bill - No, no, baby look. It's called a "video game" and you play it with this "video controler". Look baby, I got a thing called a "mod" and now I can have sex with girls, and I don't have to cheat on my wife!
Hillary - Well, let me see it.
---Hillary takes controller from Bill---
Hillary - Oh wow Bill, that is neat.
That's just the begining baby, look here, there's a secret code I can put in., U,D
---Bill grabs the controler back and taps in the following...---
L1,L1,L2,R1,X,TRIANGLE,L,U,R,D,L
The game pauses for a moment, then BOINK! A cigar appears in hand.
Hillary - What's that for?
Bill - Here baby, watch this....
Time is comparison of movement to other movement.
Vacation was Rated "R" for language(Clark is always cussing) and the famous Beverly Deangelo shower scene, the naked Christie Brinkley swimming pool scene, and underage drinking(Russ sharing a beer with Clark) and Pot smoking with the cousins. That's all I remember off the top of my head. But it seems like a pretty easy call to me why they made it "R". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085995/
TODO create witty sig.
What?, did you think I was born yesterday?
oh wait....
anyhoo, this is EA games we are talking about. After all they are based in California.
Violent video games (or god forbid sexually explicit video games) and dodgeball are the biggest problems facing the American youth of today, and both should be banned immediately.
Won't someone think of the children. Thank god for Hillary.
Laugh
You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
How very explanatory of you.
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
Classic Is it considered impolite to wet your pants laughing?
Then I realized it was just another mindless henai game. Blech. I guess I should have expected as much.
If only 18 games have been rated AO, that must mean that the vast majority of the hentai games made are never submitted. Which makes sense.
Ultimately, I think the AO designation isn't so scary in that sex is going to corrupt my children more than games where you can kill cops, it's that the game is likely to just be just plain bad, with `have sex!' being the attaction, and actual gameplay being an afterthought. (Though LSL:MCL isn't a great game, it's somewhat entertaining. Which is unusual for it's rating.)
Oh, now I get it. The latest Leisure Suit Larry must have two versions -- the standard `M' rated version, and the `Uncut and Uncensored' version, which is rated `AO' and probably removes the [censored] marks from the `M' version. Not sure why seeing Larry's schlong makes it adults only, but that's the ratings for you. [I must have seen the `M' version, though I've heard there's a patch for that ...]
I recall pulling out Virtual Valerie 2 at parties for shock value, but back then it was novel. Now it's just boring.
As for `Hot coffee', it actually fits into the GTA game. Yes, it's really poorly simulated sex (I've seen the movie of it) but it does make sense that the hero of the game might have a girlfriend, and might get to have sex with her. (It would make more sense if he at least pulled his pants down, however.)
It's pretty sad that this `easter egg' (one that can't even be accessed without jumping through some serious hoops) has upset all these people so much, so much more than things like getting points for beating a hooker and taking your money back after paying her ...
What are these 18 games?
Actually, I think American lip-service to prudery is good thing. Sex leads to more people, violence leads to less people. (Unless it's violent sex. )
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
How about we put the burden of raising children on the parents who chose to had them. How about instead of futilely trying to childproof the world we let people decide for themselves and their own children what's appropriate.
If a kid has $50 bucks to blow on the new hotness their either have their parents permission (ill considered as it may be), too much for an allowance, gainful employment, or an entry level position in a criminal enterprise. None of these is the problem of developers or retailers.
Besides, none of the GTA games come close to the sex and violence of the bible. Babykilling and incest? Check. I want to see Rockstar do a Bible game like GTA, where you can wander around brutally killing and raping anything.
About the "hidden sex scenes" specifically. How can we be expected to make an informed decision without having observed anything ourselves?
Actually I'm serious about this (surprised there isn't anyone else being casual about it though). It seems like it could still possibly be a sex scene not much worse you'd see in James Bond or something, which gets PG-13s.
Seriously though, would you rather have your kid growing up knowing how to satisfy his or her instincts by having sex, or by hurting people? Games with huge amounts of violence will get T ratings... Ever seen Microsoft's title Dungeon Siege? It had gibs for crying out loud (chunks of bloody flesh)! Thats a different topic though, Big Business abuse of the system...
Somewhere, the GTA/SA sex scene was developed, and must have been "auditioned" pretty widely. Developers responsible for it are not speaking up, of course. I think it would be especially funny if this "extra scene" came from an animation department in India.
1. Is there sex (S) in it (just boobies don't count either)? If yes, 6+
2. Is there excessive violence (V) 21+
3. Is it all in another language than French (L): Banned.
It's an enforcement issue, both on the retail and parental fronts.
As long as the majority of retailers treat ESRB ratings merely as guidelines rather than policy (the fact that they were originally intended as guidelines only is moot at this point), 12 year olds exposed to GTA and irrate politicians will remain. It's also the fault of parents who refuse/neglect to monitor their children's activity, and what the activists are really screaming for is a Big Brother to ensure from the top down that kids have a harder time playing them.
<rant>
As a side rant on the GTA sex game debacle, it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to be outraged at a game maker over content that was discarded and locked out of the game prior to release, only accessible via a hack. For whatever reason, the developer chose to remove it, and like scenes cut from a movie the game should be judged based on what it is, not on what it is when any number of hacks or Gameshark codes are applied to it (nude Tomb Raider, anyone??).
</rant>
Typical. You mention factual statements and you get nailed as flamebait because it goes against the liberal /. groupthink. You should know better than to insult two prominent libs here.
... well, perhaps "on top of", "sex", and "Ashcroft" is not the best one-sentence combination to use, considering that he couldn't deal with a nude breast on a freakin' statue.
For those mods who clearly don't have a f*cking clue, Hillary (clearly not a conservative) is actively pursuing the current GTA3 situation and Tipper was one of the main activists who was responsible for the Senate hearings regarding language/violence/drugs in music several years back. I also need to remind the mods that the initial politician who raised a stink in order to impress his constituents is a democrat from California. So - karma be damned - will the GP and the idiot mod who nailed the parent with -1 Flamebait kindly get your heads out of your asses and tell me once again where conservatives are causing the problem with the GTA3 issue?
Whereas the republican side of the isle is known for their own bits of censorship, particularly where issues of morality come into play, the current GTA3 rigamarole has not been started and is not currently a molehill being made into a mountain by republicans or conservatives.
Now, if that moron John Ashcroft was still in office, then you liberal, knee-jerk reactionaries might have cause to bitch about conservatives. Ashcroft would have been on top of the sex issue like
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
So if Rockstar is responsible for content they removed which got revealed later (If you can't access it legally it's been removed from the game pretty much), why arn't they recalling all Disney DVDs like the adventurers which contain 1 cel which is pornogrphic.
Surely if they're going to flip out about a game made for mature people (18+ in the UK) seeing some woman on a poster with her tits out is MUCH worse because it's labeled PG. Little kids will never notice it just as most people would never have known of the mod if all this press didn't come out about it.
I finished GTA:SA last night and all I can think is "So the corrupt politicans want to hide the story of a corrupt cop getting his ass handed to him" when it comes to all this pointless censorship.
I like muppets.
Everyone who has experienced violence first hand, raise your hands ... (counts hands)
Everyone who's parents had sex, raise your hands....(counts these hands)
Seems like more people are victoms of sex than of violence, so it only seems appropriate we protect them from sex (boobies being a distant relation to sex and all...) /I am only kidding, I get it/
Something I've never seen mentioned in the Hot Coffee discussions all over the net. Not only the coffee session turns into a sexual minigame, but (PC version, at least, that's what I play):
:P
- Sometimes (haven't noticed a regular pattern, only happened with Denise thus far) when on a date and walking on the streets, if you kiss the girl, she will give you a blowjob after the kiss. Right in the open!
- On the "mission date" with the croupier girl (don't remember her name ATM) and if you date her wearing the gimp suit, you won't have straight sex with her, but spank her hard instead.
So we can add (at least) exhibitionism and BDSM to the GTA-SA checklist. Does the ESRB have a 30+ rating?
Well, I agree with you except I'd call this a bipartisan issue if only because Jack Thompson is a Republican.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
So basically ESRB was completely vulnerable to gaming their particular system. Things have apparently changed and become much more thorough now, but theoretically if you sabotaged your own game so it wouldn't run, you could get them to assign you almost any rating you wanted just by answering their questions the right way. (Obviously getting an M game assigned a rating of E would be pushing your luck, but you might get it down from an M to a T.
-- Old Man Kensey
With respect to the overall topic, your statement is fair. I still consider that to be the same lines as the democrat from California -- Yees, I believe. "Let's make it look like I'm offended so that I can curry favor with the constituents."
/.
Still doesn't change the fact that the inital GTA stink was started by not one but two democrats and that the GGP is a knee-jerk reactionary who looks for any excuse (informed or otherwise) to slam conservatives.
Oh, well. Another day on
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Wow! If only parents took enough interest in their children to actually pay attention to what they are buying or playing at any given time, we wouldn't even need asn ESRB! Always trust your kids, and always check up on them!
erin go bragh!
Titus Andronicus had quite a bit of gore, I doubt anyone could have come close even with a BFG 9000.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
the Democrats are a right wing conservative party also.
Right on. If you feel that way, you shouldn't shop there. Personally I'd rather pay higher prices at Target than Wal-Mart because a) the Targets in my area are well maintained, not dirty pits like the local Wal-Marts; b) Target pays health benefits, so I don't have to subsize worker visits to the ER with my tax dollars; c) Target has much cooler ads and merchandise, and you can occaisionally find something there that wasn't manufactured in China. I know, it's rare, but it happens.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
where Natalee Holloway is more important than a war and being a traitor against the state by ratting on a CIA agent is less important than a video game that wasn't on sale to children anyway.
The founding fathers would be deeply ashamed.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
At least three raters watch the videotape and answer a series of questions about its content. They are more likely to be homemakers than hard-core gamers.
They have homemakers rate games? That's like asking the [stereotypical] humanities major to look over your PCB design for an EE project!
I wouldn't be surprised if the offensive bit of the game was there, and the raters just couldn't find it. Rockstar probably figured that if the ESRB couldn't, it wasn't going to be a problem.
Solution: always have a real gamer involved in rating games.
... a Oujia board?
A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
methinks the parent deserves a better mod.
I think it should be -5 funny, or perhaps "insightul"
not a -1
So when employees look discouraged, they get sacked?
"We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" -- Kurt Vonnegut
Ok I'll take a crack at this one.
First and foremost: this is purely an issue governed by religion, I think we can all agree about that. Religion has driven the whole "sex is evil" mindset for centuries upon centuries.
Next, and this is crucial: religion is about power. Control of the people. Note that sex within marriage (read as: within the confines of a relationship sactioned by aforementioned religion, and I'm not just picking on Christianity here) is not sinful so long as the purpose of sex is procreation (the expansion of the religion's population). Only sex outside of marriage is evil, because this results in babies who might grow up free, outside the indoctrination rituals and practices of the religion.
Violence is only sinful if it is, again, without the sanction of the religion. If you are committing acts of violence in the name of the church (or whatever god the church is about), you're lionzed.
Thus we have today's typical religious culture: don't have sex unless you're approved to do so by your church.
It's not a lie. It's the truth with lossy compression.
"A UK-centered study carried out by Swiss research firm Modulum, and reported on by BBC Online, shows that one of the biggest problems with the video game rating system in the UK may be parents' inability to take it seriously.
t ory=5758 [gamasutra.com]
The survey, which canvassed 1,000 adults by phone and 100 customers in stores, indicated that, despite awareness of the 18 rating (the UK's equivalent of the ESRB's North American M rating), parents would often let their under-age children play games marked as such." - http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?s
For those mods who clearly don't have a f*cking clue, Hillary (clearly not a conservative) is actively pursuing the current GTA3 situation and Tipper was one of the main activists who was responsible for the Senate hearings regarding language/violence/drugs in music several years back.
And don't forget Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) who's railing against the upcoming game "25 to Life".
As far as I can tell, though, the problem comes when politicians from either side of the aisle try to pander to conservative "values voters". Republicans do it when those folks are their main base of support (as opposed to big business or libertarian voters); Democrats do it when they're trying to expand their base.
Hillary has been doing that a lot lately, and it's one reason why I, a liberal libertarian Democrat (wrap your brain around that one!), won't be voting for her if she ever makes a Presidential primary bid. This morality crusade does not represent what I, or most other liberals, believe in.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
some people knew all along... but some of you don't understand.
the reason of in-game sex being rated so high:
because it's much, much easier for potential criminal to rape than murder.
rape is something that we can 'casually do'... many women/men who've been raped don't report, many people who had unconcented intercorse don't consider themselves as rapist(and subsequently don't feel guilty as much). Hack, so many child molesters can get free...
Now think about murder. I don't think many of you can murder in cold blood. Nor you have chainsaw/machine gun/katana/rocket launcher/etc. to rampage on the street.
Sex crime is so easy to commit, and oftentimes it doesn't carry the same weight as murder... That's why ESRB is so shitty about this adult content.
You thought ordinary rational people won't rape? badly, terribly, horribly wrong opinion on that.
Heck, look who got fried recently.. That chairman(or ceo, whatever) of huge firm, jackson dude, even former prez. clint got scandle involving 'sex', didn't he.
I can't believe how stupid and hypocritical many North Americans (most notibly the US) is when it comes to violence and sex. Now, both violence and sex are important parts of life and exposing anyone to violence and sex at any age isn't bad; but the portrail of this sex and violence may be a bad influence. What it all comes down to is the context in which the content is presented in.
Now, in my opinion, most violent videogames and movies are fine for teenagers to play; provided that the violence is not too graphic and you (as a parent) understand how your child reacts to this violence. If parents in North America weren't so uptight you could have the same (basic) mind-set about sex; these Japaneese 'Dating' games from what I have seen are not too graphic and, as long as your child can keep their hands out of their pants while playing there isn't any real problem.
One thing that I will say that many people will disagree with is that both Violence and Sex when taken too far (in graphicness or portrail) is not only negative for children but for anyone who is exposed to it. I personally don't think that anyone has a right to draw a line where a portrail is appropriate, but I do think that game developers should be careful not to go overboard; in particular, with how graphics and physics are improving in a handful of years we could have developers producing 'physical deformations' at a reasonably realistic level which could be damaging to everyone.
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to live in a society where people are becoming 'shell-shocked' from playing Doom.
liberal libertarian Democrat (wrap your brain around that one!)
:)
:)
Oh, damn it! That hurt like hell! Don't ever use that phrase again!
This morality crusade does not represent what I, or most other liberals, believe in.
It's not even the whole morality thing, because even I as a conservative do not necessarily believe that my morals are superior to others'. They're mine; they're good for me. To try to push them on others makes me no better than the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who trespass^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H pay a visit every year.
What disgusts me about her is that she is clearly pandoring to a group that she does not represent in an attempt to soften her image. Yet if she ever got the top spot (if there really is a god, he/she/whatever must never let that happen), she'll turn back to the hard-as-concrete lib that she always has been -- up until a year or two ago, that is. Okay, this was off-topic, but you started it.
{groan} Ah, man. I'm still hurting from the liberal libertarian Democrat paradox.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Everybody's fussing about "poorly simulated sex", but thats exactly the point. If gamers found out that it invovled anything but lying on eachother and moving in repetitive patterns, all of them would desert their consoles in search of some. We can't have the gaming industry fail now, can we? Or wait, thats why it was invented, we never did get any.
No, they're not liberals. As a liberal ("open-minded") person, I think their stances on censorship are shameful, and no, I wouldn't vote for either of them. Actually, I'd vote for Hillary over Bill "Video Doctor" Frist or Jeb "pro-life when it's convenient to appease the fruitcake fundies" Bush.
In this instance, both sides are being completely idiotic and are just playing to the crowd. But republicans are keeping their mouths shut because they're alreadying dealing with Red Rove-r problem.
~X~
~X~
What disgusts me about her is that she is clearly pandoring to a group that she does not represent in an attempt to soften her image. Yet if she ever got the top spot (if there really is a god, he/she/whatever must never let that happen), she'll turn back to the hard-as-concrete lib that she always has been -- up until a year or two ago, that is.
Well, to be fair, that can be said about many politicians from either side. If you compare the current President's actions to the claims he made before he was elected, there's plenty of contradiction. The very nature of politics is that you try to appeal to as many voters as possible... as long as you need them to get elected.
Ah, man. I'm still hurting from the liberal libertarian Democrat paradox.
["liberal"] I have no problem with paying taxes or regulation of business, since our laws and courts facilitated much of those businesses' success in the first place. I have no problem with spending that tax revenue on public services, such as health/retirement insurance or border security, in cases where the private sector can't provide them adequately to everyone who needs them. Government services obviously have some drawbacks, but they're different from the drawbacks of private services and sometimes preferable.
["libertarian"] But I absolutely do not want the government telling me what I can do with other consenting individuals, or what I can buy, sell, broadcast, distribute, put into my body or remove from my body (except for a handful of extreme cases--e.g. atomic bombs--and as long as no fraud is committed). Regulations shouldn't make a product or service unavailable unless there's a reasonable equivalent, nor should they be a substitute for learning about a product before you buy/use it or changing the damn channel. I want the government to step in, collect taxes, spend them on preventing force, fraud, and unnecessary discrimination (and providing a few other important services the market can't or won't address), and then get the hell out.
["Democrat"] I believe the two interests above are best served by a vote for this party, mainly because of the relative priorities I place on certain aspects and the amount of influence I think the kooks of each party wield. I don't think the recent bleating by Hillary and Schumer has enough support in the party to go anywhere; it's basically a publicity stunt for the idiots who care that they're "tough on red pixels".
If I think voting for another party will serve my interests better, I won't hesitate to vote for them instead, but unless the GOP kicks the religious right to the curb, or we reform our electoral system so third parties have some chance of getting power, I don't think that's likely to happen.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
you know what, if you don't like the wages, if you don't like the lack of benefits, than don't work there. there are plenty of other places to work.
nobody's forcing you to work at walmart. it isn't illegal to pay low wages and not to give benefits.
there are plenty of small businesses out there that pay the same and don't give any benefits. i would know, i work at one.
Typical. Someone writes a rant about how stupid and liberal people are on slashdot and immediately get modded as +5 insightful.
Who are you kidding? More than likely it was because I slammed John Ashcroft. ;)
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Probably the same reason they won't sell birth control pills.
Mario's head is too big for his body. He can also change directions in mid-air, fly if he gets some "tail" or a pimp cape. And, he's also been known to vomit fireballs.
So, a man can have bigger features, but not a woman. Sexism! The Princess is going on strike!
I8-D
"there are plenty of small businesses out there that pay the same and don't give any benefits."
Yes that's correct, and no it isn't illegal to create wage slaves, but it should be. The reason I target Walmart is because they use their money and influence on legislators. They also actively seek out and remove any potential disruption to their way of doing business.
At least 2 stores in Canada closed their doors shortly before an attempt to unionize came through. How fucking sad is it that they'd put hundreds of people out of work so they wouldn't have to treat them as well as the dirt Walmarts executives have in their back yards.
So yeah Walmart is no different than any other retail outlet, but they have the ability to make things better or worse. Unlike the mom and pop corner store they CAN afford to have their employees live above the poverty line and still make billions a year.
Anyway got a bit long winded there. Don't worry because when I'm Prime Minister of the world we'll see some social responsibility in multi-national corporations.
LOL, you deserve the moderation I was going for: Funny
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
...and it was on VHS, not DVD. There is no Disney film called "the adventurers." Disney found the scenes before anybody else did, the public didn't know about them until after the recall. Disney claims they were added by the post house.
http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/rescuers.htm
Minor correction, the current issue is unrelated to GTA3, it is about a mod to GTA:SA (San Andreas).
meh
That's right, if you are flat, you aren't sexy. Also if you are sexy, you aren't "ok for everyone:"
"company's representatives might learn, for example, that a particular character is probably a bit too busty for an "E." "
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
What 13 yr old is going to want to play a game rated for 12 yr olds? My generation had video nasties, as soon as one was mentioned in the press we all went and got a copy to see what the fuss was about. When a game has been mentioned as causing abberant behaviour in our young people (i.e. as an excuse for taking an axe to annoying little sister) sales have gone through the roof
Its all about marketing
Doom 3 got rated M (17+) and that's totally correct. I've played it when I was 17 and again when I was 18.
I must say I've jumped when some monster appeared suddenly LOADS of times. I can't play the game for longer than an hour because I haven't got the nerve.
If ESRB rated it T, I'm sure some kids would've plainly got scared to death. In fact, I knew people who were frightened of Starcraft's Infested Marine or whatever-it-was-called unit.
What makes me wonder is that the gap between M and AO is just one year.
First and foremost: this is purely an issue governed by religion, I think we can all agree about that. Religion has driven the whole "sex is evil" mindset for centuries upon centuries.
No major religion in the world says that "sex is evil". Most condemn homosexuality, sexual infidelity and premarital sex. But none of them say that "sex is evil".
Furthermore, the purpose of sex within marriage is not solely procreation - any priest or rabbi will tell you that. It's an extension of the love that the married couple shares, and children are a natural result of this love. Also, no major religion insists that you MUST have kids when married.
As far as your erroneous theory of control goes, there is more to the major religions than the desire to control the world. Religiions were set up to serve as the backbone of a society, to serve as a guideline that makes life for everyone much easier.
Violence is not endorsed by any religion. If you read the Bible from beginning to end, you'll see the evolution of the human perception of God:
- God is only violent if we do something bad (an easy explanation for floods and fires).
- God is violent, so he doesn't mind if we're violent in his name (an easy explanation for killing your enemies).
- God is not violent but we have to serve him for him to love us (seeing that violence is not the solution, but still fearing God).
- God came to earth to serve us because he loves us (Jesus dies to save human kind).
The perception changed because people evolved from cave-dwellers to farmers, to warriors, to scientists with many steps in between.
I'd go on but this stuff could fill a book. I suggest you take some theology classes or at least some Bible. You don't have to believe what is taught, but at least you'll know how to criticize religions without sounding like an idiot.
Yes. That's why Walmart has such a bad reputation.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
True enough. I caught that after I posted. For some reason, GTA:SA feels more like a stand-alone expansion pack to GTA3 than its own game. Oh, well. That's for another thread. :)
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
It's not liberals vs conservatives, it's our parents vs us. Most us in the 20-35 range have a much more tolerate view of human sexuality in the public eye than do the baby boomers, regardless of their political affiliation. To characterize the differing opinions on the matter as conservative nuts vs enlightened liberals is wrong. Clinton doesn't even care, in her case, she just wants soccer moms in the suburbs to think that she (Clinton) gives a shit about their their (the mom's) precious Tanners, Taylors, Tylers, and Connors are seeing when they play video games. We've got a rating system on games, one that is NOT mandated by the government. Don't think for a minute that Clinton and her ilk wouldn't love to get government involved in telling you which games are ok for your kids.
Tipper was one of the main activists who was responsible for the Senate hearings regarding language/violence/drugs in music several years back
The "censorship" issue bounces back and forth between the two parties. Sort of like the abortion issue. Al Gore was pro-life until he was on somebody's vice-presidential ticket. And Bush 41 was pro-choice until he found himself having to pick up Christian swing votes.
tell me once again where conservatives are causing the problem with the GTA3 issue?
Conservatives are causing problems with media censorship, but my point is that the phenomenon is not unique to conservatives. We just readily leap to blame them because we already don't like them. It's a psychological flaw in the human mind. See Hayakawa for an explanation of why this happens. While you're at it, Hayakawa can provide the answer to questions many of you have. Like when you meet somebody that is totally brilliant and highly educated and then you say, "God I hate George Bush" and your newfound brilliant, educated friend says, "Why? He's a good guy, I voted for him." And your jaw drops and you think two things, Pavlov-style: (1) How can somebody this smart like Bush? (2) He's not that smart, he's a fucking idiot.
Go read that book and get the answer #1, and see why you're wrong about #2. While you're at it, learn why everybody else you disagree with isn't evil and stupid.
Now, if that moron John Ashcroft was still in office, then you liberal, knee-jerk reactionaries might have cause to bitch about conservatives.
I think the liberal, knee-jerk reactionaries have cause to bitch about them now, even regarding censorship and morality in media. However, I think it's misguided, unfair, and self-serving to bitch about it while ignoring what liberals are doing on this front as well. Clinton may only be appealing to conservative voters, but as I mentioned above, that's the same reason a lot of Republicans buy into this bullshit too. To just assume Republicans are all Christian nutjobs who embrace this stuff sincerely because you hate them is unhelpful.
considering that he couldn't deal with a nude breast on a freakin' statue.
I wonder if he showers in the dark so he can't see his own genitals.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
Unless you count Hillary's main advocates and co-sponsers/supporters on the issue who are both conservative republicans (Sens. Santourum (R-PA) and Brownback (R-KS))or the far right National Institute on Media and the Family which started the whole thing by issuing a "National Parental Warning" (read: self-promoting and hyperbolicly hysterical press release) on the mod.
Like Hillary Clinton? Tipper Gore?
Yes, just like them. Democrat != liberal, and in fact the US Democrats are considered right wing in the rest of the western world. They might be a little less right wing than Bush, but if they're pushing for the enshrinement of fundamentalist christian 'morals' in legislation, they're definitely both conservative and unreasonable.
When I think liberal, I think no censorship, decriminalised drug use, free speech (inclusive of flag burning etc), right to trial, right to religious belief or lack thereof (including islam and atheism), sexual freedom, universal health care and education, heavy regulation of business, a pacifist foreign policy etc. I don't think the US has ever even come close to that.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling