agreed. we have more programmers at my office that are engineering than computer science majors. i think it is easier to teach a physicist programming than vice versa, but its difficult to teach either to be good at the other. id like to think that ive learned something important in the last 4 years that a mathematician couldnt pick up in a couple months. conversely, i dont think i could pick up biochem quickly. you have to be good at taking on a thought process completely foreign to what youve known in the past, i think.
i agree totally. we have a class here at okstate called numerical methods that gives an intro to this sort of thing. newtons method, etc. there should be much more of it, i think. a buddy of mine is a double major with math and cs, which seems like a great idea to me.
we have to know math because the math majors cant program, usually. as a programmer, youll have to work with NUMEROUS different people from all sorts of other fields. you might be designing heat control systems, biochem simulation software, or electronic simulation software like me. the more you know the better in this field, i think.
well, if youre gonna be a prick about it at least understand what i meant
1: knoppix is a GNU/Linux livecd distro
oh good lord. you think?
2: you have 2 (two) installers for putting it on a harddisk
so how dows that affect showing people what it can do as a live cd? that was the point of the parent of my original post. he was embarrassed when it didnt work in front of friends.
3. there are many GNU/Linux livecds
what relevance to what i said does this have? yes, there are several hundred if not thousands of live cd distros. so?
4. it is used extensively for GNU/Linux evaluating (ie. Sun used morphix, based on knoppix, for their JDS evaluation version)
again, so? i said it was fine software, didnt i? how does this contradict anything about what i said? my point was that it is unfair to expect a livecd to behave as well as an installed OS.
5. how can you compare something that is free with something that isn't?
ummm... the same way windows users do, how about that? again, the original parent to my post said that he was embarrassed about it not working in front of friends. this make it seem to them like linux sucks because it didnt work on a box that windows is obviously working just fine. how does the fact that its free matter? people want windows because it is windows. we have to prove to them that linux can do a superior job for free. this isnt easy when you expect knoppix to be perfect. knoppix is a good way to show people about linux, but i think its unfair to expect it to work perfectly on every machine when it has the restriction of running live. yes, i know you can install it, but i dont know many people that want to see linux installed on their machine just to play around with it.
in short, there are better ways to disagree, expecially when you are mistaken. perhaps i was a bit vague, did this make my point a little more clear?
how do you update it to the cd? if you install, thats a whole different story. of course i can do that, its got apt-get. am i missing something?
as for teh installer, i agree that it is very simple. what im not impressed with is the fact that some of the hardware detection goes away when you do that. i had clusterknoppix working perfectly live and as soon as i installed it, the network card no longer worked. that doesnt make any sense to me at all. it is awesome software, but its no perfect. my point was only that its kinda unfair to compare its live versino to other installs that are updated, etc. often times windows wont work properly until it gets new drivers from the update. i think knoppix does a fine job of handling most anything right out of the box.
knoppix is much different from linux, tho. knoppix isnt given the opportunity to update anything because it runs from the cd. there is not similarly well-functioning windows equivalent that i am aware of, so there is nothing to compare it to. knoppix is fine software and should not be used to evaluate linux to any serious extent because it is limited to running live. just MHO
i have no idea who teaches it, or even if we have somebody that does, unfortunately. we program in assembly for computer systems I, but past that we really dont have to see it again. probably not a good thing, but i think the major is full enough as it is as far as requirements. there are several classes id like to see added for electives, but they dont listen to me much.
compsci 1 and 2 are java here at oklahoma state, have been at least since 3.5 years ago. imo, java has a nice, shallow initial learning curve. no pointers, memory allocation is simple, no destructors, etc. not that these are difficult ideas, but they are just more things on top of basics you learn in cs1 & 2. ive dont quite a bit of c++ and java (with java first) and i think i learned them in the correct order.
Apple making a foolproof DRM scheme and cracking down on the freedoms they today permit
has anyone accomplished anything that hasnt been cracked given (even a reasonable) time? i think they might come up with something that is hard enough to do that they can still make money despite a crack for it, if thats what you meant.
at the time of me writing this, you are modded flamebait. i disagree with that. i think you are dead on and there is no way i woudl give my credit card number for a "free" song. if they wanted to give these things away, they should have actually been free. if this is a failure, i think they did it to themselves.
when i go to a show, i like to enjoy it and remember it. i dont spend money just to be at a show, i want to hear it and appreciate it.
Re:Practical or somebody's thesis?
on
Robocones
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· Score: 5, Funny
The only thing that worries me is a driver getting distracted from looking at the new technology.
i agree that this might be a problem, but i think a bigger problem would be the workers driving this things around trying to play frogger with them, hehe. i would.
i feel your pain on that one. the trick, however, is to drive a burly enough machine like mine to be able to handle just such an occasion:-) on the bright side, sometimes this behavior can be used to your advantage. have you ever had somebody just driving in your blind spot? just turn on your signal to that side and they will pass you in no time. stupid drivers are usually at least somewhat predictable.
With the same tires, my car would probably stay neck and neck with this thing up to about 30 MPH, but then my ability to accelerate starts being limited by horsepower instead of tire traction
i call BS. care to prove that? i dont care how much traction my little 92hp eclipse has, it isnt going to take the bugatti even to 30mph. that little engine just cant pull hard enough to get my car moving along with that 1khp beast. it isnt going to happen. put stickies on mine and put my tires on that bugatti and it wouldnt matter. im willing to hear some proof from you.
it was my understanding that they havent been able to with the bugatti. last i heard, if you had one and wanted to attempt a top-speed run, they woudl fly a guy out to you with race wheels and tires to help you try. anyone with a link to that?
first of all, id like to think im capable of discussing without flaming. that has been my intention, at least. honestly, i must be slow or something... at any rate, be it my stupidy or your lack of clear explanation, i think i understand most of what you are saying.
your exampble of IE being like GTK makes sense in the respect of libraries and not as identical uses. i see what you mean about that.
If you can't articulate and justify why some tightly grouped set of software should be treated differently than another tightly grouped set of software, then the decision is arbitrary.
i understand what you mean(good lord, i hope so), i simply pose that with linux i can make that choice arbitrary and with windows i dont have a choice at all. i can have any little part i want of linux, but im stuck with what im given with windows. this is not a big deal in most areas.
(And before you ask, yes, IE acts as a supporting library for the Windows shell.)
this was my original point almost exactly. i didnt know it was a matter of IE library being used to write explorer, but its close enough. based on this, IE cannot be removed. youre right, thats a silly thing to ask for windows to be done without it. it is like gnome w/o gtk. however, i dont have to use gnome on my linux box. if i dont like gtk, i can use kde with QT, not a problem. i dont see a similar alternative in windows.
Same with Windows and IE. But in any case, that's irrelevant
i disagree, tho. it is relevant, because if i dont like the way the IE library handles things for the OS, i cant change anything. i cant switch to a QT/arbitraryDE setup. its just my preference for choice.
im not even a linux zealot, i use windows more than i do my slack install. its just the point that microsoft makes me install exactly what they want and i cant change it. the 40MB or whatever IE takes up when i use opera is insignificant and doesnt rot my hd. my problem with it is that if i dont like the way that library does things, a completely different OS is my only choice. there are parts of windows i really like and since the IE library does a decent job running exporer, its not even an issue with me other than the lack of choice.
no hard feelings if you want to leave it at this, and im not flaming. oh, one more thing, you replied with just as many misrepresentations of what i said as vice versa. they are called misunderstandings, often found in discussions and arguments, it happens.
Windows provides a set of basic functionality for your computer. There are many alternatives to Windows. However, Windows itself a complete unit.
Gnome provides a set of basic functionality for your computer. There are many alternatives to Gnome. However, Gnome itself is a complete unit.
windows and gnome are each complete units, sure. but saying that they are equivalent is absurd. they operate on completely different levels. gnome is just a display manager on top of an OS(linux, unix, what have you). windows is the OS. i fail to see how they do the same job.
This is a strawman; that's not what I was saying. The arbitrary distinction you are making is that that software that provides the functionality of Gnome should be subject to different rules than software that provides the functionality of Windows. Where do you draw that line? At the OS kernel? At kernel-level utilities? Userland utilities? And what justification can you make for that line?
aha, ok, i finally understand what you mean there. i suppose the major difference is that with linux, i can make the distincion anywhere i want. with windows, there is none. i take what they give me, no choice. with linux, i have the source to include whatever i want. 74nova flavor of linux, if i had the skills.
No, what you're seeing is the shell using IE for some things. That doesn't make Internet Explorer the window manager
some things, eh? like displaying contents of folders, previewing images, and browsing the hard drive? tell me, what exactly does the windows manager do without IE? remember where the last window was? that seems like an awefully small job. seems to me that IE does a whole lot more for the window manager than you suggest. i call it (not 100% accurate, sure) the window manager for this reason.
Windows needs some of the functionality of internet explorer to provide some of the services of the OS. Saying that you want to completely obliterate it is like saying that you want to replace GTK+ in Gnome with QT. It just doesn't work that way.
that doesnt even make sense. are you suggesting that the toolkit used to make apps in gnome is the same as its window manager? replacing gtk with qt in gnome doesnt make sense because it is the toolkit it was written with, not some program that provides services to the OS.
The two functions are logically independent; they just happen to share code.
what? is that why microsoft argued in court that IE could not be removed from windows? yeah, its one of those logically independent entities and it cannot be removed. how is it independent? they share a whole lot of code if ms says IE cant be taken out.
This isn't true. If you don't install windows, you can install Linux, or BSD, or get yourself a Mac, or do something else
oh come on. of course! my point is that if i dont install the gui for gnu/linux, i still can have gnu/linux. such a thing is not possible with windows. my distinction is not arbitrary. what i AM saying is that MAKING me use IE as my window manager is not what i want. there is not an arbitrary difference between bundling the browser and integrating it permanently into the OS.
Second, you seem to be confusing window managers and browsers. The Windows window manager isn't the same as IE
dont believe me that IE is the window manager? open up my computer(or any folder) and type http://slashdot.org into the address bar. what do you see? now, open up IE and type in c:\ into the address bar and what do you see? microsoft themselves used this very fact as the reason they couldnt remove IE from windows.
Also, there are other window managers available for windows.
yes, i was going to point that out, but they still leave IE in tact and not completely removed from being used in the OS.
Slashdot Mirror
agreed. we have more programmers at my office that are engineering than computer science majors. i think it is easier to teach a physicist programming than vice versa, but its difficult to teach either to be good at the other. id like to think that ive learned something important in the last 4 years that a mathematician couldnt pick up in a couple months. conversely, i dont think i could pick up biochem quickly. you have to be good at taking on a thought process completely foreign to what youve known in the past, i think.
i agree totally. we have a class here at okstate called numerical methods that gives an intro to this sort of thing. newtons method, etc. there should be much more of it, i think. a buddy of mine is a double major with math and cs, which seems like a great idea to me.
we have to know math because the math majors cant program, usually. as a programmer, youll have to work with NUMEROUS different people from all sorts of other fields. you might be designing heat control systems, biochem simulation software, or electronic simulation software like me. the more you know the better in this field, i think.
in short, there are better ways to disagree, expecially when you are mistaken. perhaps i was a bit vague, did this make my point a little more clear?
how do you update it to the cd? if you install, thats a whole different story. of course i can do that, its got apt-get. am i missing something?
as for teh installer, i agree that it is very simple. what im not impressed with is the fact that some of the hardware detection goes away when you do that. i had clusterknoppix working perfectly live and as soon as i installed it, the network card no longer worked. that doesnt make any sense to me at all. it is awesome software, but its no perfect. my point was only that its kinda unfair to compare its live versino to other installs that are updated, etc. often times windows wont work properly until it gets new drivers from the update. i think knoppix does a fine job of handling most anything right out of the box.
knoppix is much different from linux, tho. knoppix isnt given the opportunity to update anything because it runs from the cd. there is not similarly well-functioning windows equivalent that i am aware of, so there is nothing to compare it to. knoppix is fine software and should not be used to evaluate linux to any serious extent because it is limited to running live. just MHO
i have no idea who teaches it, or even if we have somebody that does, unfortunately. we program in assembly for computer systems I, but past that we really dont have to see it again. probably not a good thing, but i think the major is full enough as it is as far as requirements. there are several classes id like to see added for electives, but they dont listen to me much.
compsci 1 and 2 are java here at oklahoma state, have been at least since 3.5 years ago. imo, java has a nice, shallow initial learning curve. no pointers, memory allocation is simple, no destructors, etc. not that these are difficult ideas, but they are just more things on top of basics you learn in cs1 & 2. ive dont quite a bit of c++ and java (with java first) and i think i learned them in the correct order.
at the time of me writing this, you are modded flamebait. i disagree with that. i think you are dead on and there is no way i woudl give my credit card number for a "free" song. if they wanted to give these things away, they should have actually been free. if this is a failure, i think they did it to themselves.
when i go to a show, i like to enjoy it and remember it. i dont spend money just to be at a show, i want to hear it and appreciate it.
i feel your pain on that one. the trick, however, is to drive a burly enough machine like mine to be able to handle just such an occasion :-) on the bright side, sometimes this behavior can be used to your advantage. have you ever had somebody just driving in your blind spot? just turn on your signal to that side and they will pass you in no time. stupid drivers are usually at least somewhat predictable.
see, that way of doing things makes more sense to me. just keeping everything up to date. i dont want to reformat every year, either.
speaking of karma whoring, thats not the first time ive seen that exact post somewhere else. am i missing out on an inside joke or are you trolling?
im having trouble feelin the Sport in SUV with that one, unless you mean crushing civics with aluminum wings... huh...
your exampble of IE being like GTK makes sense in the respect of libraries and not as identical uses. i see what you mean about that.i understand what you mean(good lord, i hope so), i simply pose that with linux i can make that choice arbitrary and with windows i dont have a choice at all. i can have any little part i want of linux, but im stuck with what im given with windows. this is not a big deal in most areas. this was my original point almost exactly. i didnt know it was a matter of IE library being used to write explorer, but its close enough. based on this, IE cannot be removed. youre right, thats a silly thing to ask for windows to be done without it. it is like gnome w/o gtk. however, i dont have to use gnome on my linux box. if i dont like gtk, i can use kde with QT, not a problem. i dont see a similar alternative in windows.i disagree, tho. it is relevant, because if i dont like the way the IE library handles things for the OS, i cant change anything. i cant switch to a QT/arbitraryDE setup. its just my preference for choice.
im not even a linux zealot, i use windows more than i do my slack install. its just the point that microsoft makes me install exactly what they want and i cant change it. the 40MB or whatever IE takes up when i use opera is insignificant and doesnt rot my hd. my problem with it is that if i dont like the way that library does things, a completely different OS is my only choice. there are parts of windows i really like and since the IE library does a decent job running exporer, its not even an issue with me other than the lack of choice.
no hard feelings if you want to leave it at this, and im not flaming. oh, one more thing, you replied with just as many misrepresentations of what i said as vice versa. they are called misunderstandings, often found in discussions and arguments, it happens.
i sure hope youre right on all your points