Nonsense. All that means is that they are either running Wine as an embedded part of the OS (likely) or developed a new 'clean room' emulation technology based on the Windows API set (unlikely as that would cost lots o' $$$ and WINE has already done much of it).
Is it Netsafe?? Doesn't sound like it.
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Lindows Reviewed
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· Score: 4, Insightful
The single biggest issue I see here *is* that Lindows has you do everything while running as root.
That is the *stupidest* thing I have ever heard of. Aren't something like *half* of the script kiddie root hacks out there depending on someone being dumb enough to go onto the net while logged in as root?
Also, there was no mention of any kind of firewalling on this setup. I have a linux server running in my home office. I can say from experience that if there is no firewalling (ipchains/iptables) installed, configured and running, that you are *asking* for trouble.
I understand that this is a Linux distro for the Win98 crowd, and that Win98 isn't secure in the least, but I really hope that the Lindows people give the Win98'ers a fighting chance. Otherwise the k33bler pr0n elves are going to be visiting some new Lindows boxes *real* soon....:-/
Well, first, you are talking about the Enterprise version of the product. That product comes with a total of about 5k USD worth of software including Borland Enterprise Server, Interbase, JDataStore, etc. Sounds like a pretty good deal, from my perspective.
If you want a less expensive product, check out the professional version. If you want to go *real* cheap you can always download the personal version for free...
Also, if you don't feel the product is worth 3 grand, then just don't buy it! Vote with your wallet.
FWIW, yea I'd like to see it be cheaper also, but that aside it *is* a very good product. Certainly better than most of the AS/400 titles out there..;-P
I use JBuilder every day. JBuilder 6 is excellent. The integrated test harness (thanks to JUnit), UML, and refactoring tools make all tiers of development MUCH more productive. And EJB development is a breeze in JBuilder. Remote debug facilities have always been top-notch as well.
But where is Borland to go now? As I see it, two areas they need to focus on (just my opinion):
- Improve/Revamp the visual designers (they haven't overhauled this in at least two major releases.
- Provide profiling and memory monitoring tools as part of the IDE.
Now thanks to their investment in OptimizeIT we'll see that (hopefully) with the next release.
Good investment on Borland's part and good move on the part of the OptimizeIT staff and crew. Sold out? More like 'everyone wins'.
But the script kiddies can. And when a new kernel hole is found in an old kernel, Aunt Tille is going to have lots o' warez and pr0n uploaded to her computer in the wee hours o' the morning whether she likes it or not.
And that issue is timely turnaround of getting updated kernels from the commercial stewards.
For example I've given up on Redhat ever providing a newer kernel for RH 7.1 than 2.4.9. If I wanted 2.4.16 it was clear I was going to have to build it myself.
The single biggest reason that dear old Auntie needs this ability? Because dear old Auntie doesn't want the dear old script kiddies leaving porn on her computer when she's not using it, that's why. Building newer kernels (with their security fixes) helps make sure this doesn't happen.
But building kernels is *hard* to learn. Yea, sure make xconfig makes it easier. But, hell, I have a Comp Sci degree, wrote my own OS in college and *I* had a hard time figuring out now to build a kernel with the same base feature set as my stock kernel with RH 7.1. So if *I'm* left scratching my...uh.. head.. I'm sure dear ol Auntie is going to be totally overwhelmed, and why should she be? Doesn't it benefit *everyone* if people's computers aren't being exploited by cyber-vandals???
If we're going to get linux distros in more hands it needs to be more available to people. Even if it's only an 'easy config' or 'auto config' for a limited option set to allow the less adept to build 'stock variant' (for lack of a better term) kernels. Over time these people *can* learn the more 1337 t00lz out there like make xconfig...;-)
I've said this multiple times... and posted it on my website titled the RIAA can bite me
Wanna send a clear message to record labels that we won't put up with this? Here's what to do:
Go to you local music store.. if you see a CD that you *know* is copy protected (because a friend has told you or it has a warning label) - even if you don't like it.. buy it. Unwrap it and then *return* to the store for an exchange for something that you *do* like and is *not* copy protected. This way, when record labels get all of the CD's that are protected *back* they'll get a clear message from the music buying public that we WON'T PUT UP WITH THIS TREATMENT!
Oh wait.. that's not what you're talking about, is it?
Both SNK *and* George Harrison??
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Farewell to SNK
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· Score: 1
This has been a lousy day.
Since I can't speak much about George (tho I loved his Wilbury's and Beatles work) I *do* have this to say about my first time - with the Neo Geo that is...;)
The first time I saw the Neo Geo was actually in a 'mom and pop' type store in the early 1990's. The two things I first thought where:
- WOW look at the graphics, features and gameplay!!!(and)
- HOLY $**7! Look at the price tag!
There it was.. US$750 and the games were going for US$150 each. This was *not* my idea of what to pay for a console gaming system. But it was a very impressive system, nonetheless...
When I heard about their pocket game system that would work with the Dreamcast I *hoped* this would save them.. I knew they were in trouble when the Dreamcast was cancelled.
Now.. they're just a footnote in Game Console History.. *snif*.
I suppose for both George and SNK I can say the same thing...
Still my guitar gently weeps...
Just making MS Customers happy...
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.Net for VJ++
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Look, Java bigots can like it or not, but VJ++ was *liked* by MS-bigots.. a lot. So much so that VJ++ is *still* being used by a large group of MS developers out there. Any why not? It does what it's advertised to do -- it makes it possible for people who like Java to write MSWindows-based applications. And at the time, it was the *best* Java IDE available. If you wanted to write MTS components, you wanted to write Windows applications that talked and played nice with the Windows API and Windows controls: no problem!! Just use VJ++. And if you wanted to use Swing (non Java-2 version of course), or write an application that you could deploy with the Sun JDK - again that was no problem. I was certainly able to do it, as were many other Java developers. Fortunately JBuilder and like tools have stepped up in their quality and deployment capabilities and now we can look back on VJ++ as a nice tool for it's time.
I personally never thought it was going to be a threat to Java (and clearly it's never going to be since Sun and Microsoft can't come to a licensing agreement with respect to the Java 2 technologies). Also when they tried to directly compete in the Java space they pissed *everyone* off, even a lot of MS-specific shops. Hence the reason J# is coming out. VJ++ for.Net is to make the MSJava people happy and provide them a stepping stone over to J#. It won't impact anyone but shops who are already dedicated to providing MS-solutions. It's not going to make people leave J2EE (certainly not a my company, anyway), but if anything, it'll help keep their existing customers happy. Kinda like.. oh.. what Sun is doing with the JCP and JDK 1.4.
The MSVM is real good.. however.. this person did say general performance. I would not consider a mindless for loop something that people *generally* do (unless just learning BASIC, of course). Also you might want to look at the IBM JVM for 1.3, which - without a hotspot engine - is easily on par with MS *and* Sun's JDK 1.3. And have you looked at the JDK 1.4 betas yet? Apparently there are some real nice Swing-oriented performance enhancements to be had there. That might be well worth taking a look at.
Also, is the Java 2D API the VM's fault? Or is that the fault of developers writing flabby code?? The Swing implementation that you can run with the MS-VM, IIRC is the JDK 1.1-specific release and is rather different from the version that ships with 1.3 (including the J2D-API, I think).
BTW, your Jin interface is nice. Obviously a good example of how to write clean high-performance code.
That all sounds pretty cool. My only issue is that *why* would I want MS Winbloat choking my Sparc or PowerPC CPU when I can use Linux and Java, or JavaOS and Java, or Windows on Wintel and Java... or... Get my point? Now if someone wants to write a tool for other OS's that takes that MS bytecode and lets' me run it outside of Windows -- THAT would be interesting to me. I'd still not use C#, but at least it would now be interesting to me.
Still, based on what I read here, creating languages that compile to an intermediate code and then are interpreted/recompiled at the OS-level sounds like a good approach for MS. But.. I can't help but think I've heard of this approach somewhere before.... hrm.... Could it be... Java and Hotspot???;)
Normally I wouldn't respond to anyone who doesn't have the balls to post any way other than anonymously, but what the heck...
Dunno about you folks - but after working with C# for a few months now the C# environment on MS Platforms is everything I wished Java was and more (snappy UI's, super-easy access to the platform,, full support for services and the like, and a great deployment model). I've been _struggling_ for 5 years to get Java to do half as much and frankly gave up on the freggin' language 3 years ago.
Huh??? It sounds to me like you only worked with the language for *two* years and *that* was three years ago. A lot has happened since then....
BTW, has anyone actually programmed a large app in Swing?
Yes.. JBuilder from Borland is 100% written in Java. The Appgen Software companies move their software platforms over to Java so they could deploy to Mac OS/X and Windows *and* Linux.
Granted, there could definitely be more applications, but apps *do* exist and they *do* work. The only reason they're aren't more, AFAIC, is because of idiots who think Java is still "Write Once, Debug Everywhere".
However, I'm glad you're finding a tool that you're productive in. When you get right down to it, that's all that matters....
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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· Score: 1
If C# is so damn much like Java, then why are they making J#?!?!?!
Sorry, you haven't sold me on it.
Oh.. and as for Properties, Events, Delegates (Methods) Java 2 has a PME and has had one for a while. Borland helped Sun with the initial implementation and design of it. The 'Attributes' do sound nice, but could easily be implemented in Java. Again, you haven't sold me on it.
I'm only as confused as you are brainwashed.. ok?
Of course, if you can use it to write killer first person shooter games, then I'll be all for it..;)
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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Actually, PK never wrote a line of TP. One of his friends did and brought it to him. That person was Anders' predecessor.
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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Delphi/Object Pascal happens to be one of the largest non-MS languages/environments that gets used in a business environment. In my opinion, it is designed quite well, and has been for years. It optimizes quite well, and creates really fast code. The reason MS hired Anders was b/c he was responsible for parts of the language that worked very well in practice, not just in theory.
Largest non-MS language used in business? Based on what?? Have you done a job search for programmers lately. For every 100 jobs out there you'll see the that C++ has the highest demand, followed by Java, then VB and THEN (if you even SEE it) Delphi.
Yea I suppose it's one of the largest non-MS environments out there, but Java's is bigger.
And all Anders did was make the Delphi UI. He did NOT come up with the parts of the language that you speak of. The guys who are still at Borland busting their butts are the ones who did that.
As for nobody writing a C# compiler for GNU/Linux, check out go-mono.com.
I'll look into it. Still I doubt I'll find a de-balled C compiler very interesting. I mean - even MS doesn't have faith in it. Don't believe me? Can you say "J#"? I think you can...;)
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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· Score: 1
No.. he did not. His predecessor did (I can't remember the guys name right now).
All Anders did was put Borland Pascal into near obscurity. If he hadn't had this 'brilliant idea' that became Delphi his title wouldn't be 'Distinguished Engineer' at Microsoft. It would be "General Manager" at the Denny's in Scotts Valley.
Get your facts straight and have the balls to post as something OTHER than 'Anonymous Coward'.
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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· Score: 1
I'm the masses.... I run Linux...;-)
Look, my point is that if we continue with this point of view (that Swing isn't going to cut it 'for the masses') it's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally I'd rather be more of an evangelist than that...
Re:Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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· Score: 1
There's something you are missing here...
IT RUNS ON MORE THAN ONE OS!!
Therefore it *is* for the masses...
But thanks for your two scents.. it's much appreciated.. x-P
And, FWIW I've been developing in Java since 1.0 as well. So what's your point?
Why are /.'ers even READING Cringely?!?!
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C# To Crush Java?
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Let's keep a few things straight... Shall we? Oh, I think we shall.
First.. Cringely is a moron. In fact, he's not even the *first* Cringely! He's to tech journalism what the Dread Pirate Roberts in the Princess Bride is to that whole story line! He's a buffoon who took the name from the *previous* Robert X Cringely (and he's either the 4th or 5th RXC the last time I counted). He has no real background in computers and is *hardly* qualified to comment on anything tech related, forget about commenting on languages. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he won't the right to take over the name in a poker game over a few (dozen) beers.
Next.. Let's talk about the creator of C#, Anders.. aka the near killer of Borland Pascal. This guy doesn't have a CLUE about what makes object-oriented languages truly functional. And perfect examples *include* Delphi and C#. Delphi is finally becoming a 'real' OO language *since* his exit from Borland. And what does he do when he first get's to Microsoft? He makes ANOTHER Delphi - including all it's early shortcomings as a developing language, but changes the Pascal syntax for C syntax. The end result is a language (based on C) that is effectively castrated of it's most graceful and useful (C-specific) features. Ander's did you learn nothing from your years at Borland?
Also, how in the name of hell is C# (a Windows-only compiler at this time) going to EVER enter the Java (cross platform) space?? The answer is simply, it won't. No one is going to write a free C# compiler just for Linux and Solaris and with Java available in those platforms already C# is going to have an uphill battle (to say the very least).
Next - and you people who keep saying this either don't use Java or read the Microsoft websites too much - SWING IS NOT DEAD! Swing has more commercial applications written in it now than ever (JBuilder, AppGen, and basically everything from TogetherSoft is just the tip of the iceberg and are just to name a few). Now I'm *terribly sorry* if Java has pump a crimp in your plans to take over the world with Visual Basic, but now it's time to learn a REAL language and use REAL tools to develop REAL applications. Not a damn OLE automation controller with a half-ass scripting language.
OK.. so saying 'it's not as fast as firewire' was understating it a bit...;-)
Seriously.. Yes.. it takes 5 hours to record a 5 hour minidisc. HOWEVER, it's *still* cheaper and more accessable by the masses than the aPud^H^H^H^H iPod.
Besides, what are you using the audio output on your computer for when you're sleeping, anyway?;)
Well let's see here.... I think I can tell you why iPod is iLAME. Here's why I won't be buying one.. Out of the four computers in my house...
None of them are Macs.
None of them have Firewire.
This means that none of them can run iTunes.
This also means that none of them can charge the thing.
You want portable music? Get a portable MiniDisc player.
You can get 5 hours of music on 1 MiniDisc and 1 MiniDisc costs 1.50 (using MDLP mode).
*And* I can record to it from my stereo, my Wintel box *or* my Linux box. *AND* it's full digital recording from a CD-player or computer with a digital audio output.
It might not be as fast as Firewire, but it sure as hell is cheaper..!
CIO's can bitch all they want to, but the simple fact is that CIO's are the ones who *started* the 'planned obsolescence' movement. It's called doing business and satisfying your stockholders.
It's *also* called making sure your software is updated along with changing times.
Do you like paying for updates? No? Then you *should* be looking at Open Source solutions. Just remember they aren't exactly a nirvana, either. Open source is great, but not if the open source software you use has been abandoned by those who could do updates to it.
If you want open-source package 'A' to be updated and it's been abandoned then *you* could be the one funding that effort - in which case paying for the commercial package *may* in fact be cheaper..!
Slashdot Mirror
Nonsense. All that means is that they are either running Wine as an embedded part of the OS (likely) or developed a new 'clean room' emulation technology based on the Windows API set (unlikely as that would cost lots o' $$$ and WINE has already done much of it).
The single biggest issue I see here *is* that Lindows has you do everything while running as root.
:-/
That is the *stupidest* thing I have ever heard of. Aren't something like *half* of the script kiddie root hacks out there depending on someone being dumb enough to go onto the net while logged in as root?
Also, there was no mention of any kind of firewalling on this setup. I have a linux server running in my home office. I can say from experience that if there is no firewalling (ipchains/iptables) installed, configured and running, that you are *asking* for trouble.
I understand that this is a Linux distro for the Win98 crowd, and that Win98 isn't secure in the least, but I really hope that the Lindows people give the Win98'ers a fighting chance. Otherwise the k33bler pr0n elves are going to be visiting some new Lindows boxes *real* soon....
Well, first, you are talking about the Enterprise version of the product. That product comes with a total of about 5k USD worth of software including Borland Enterprise Server, Interbase, JDataStore, etc. Sounds like a pretty good deal, from my perspective.
;-P
If you want a less expensive product, check out the professional version. If you want to go *real* cheap you can always download the personal version for free...
Also, if you don't feel the product is worth 3 grand, then just don't buy it! Vote with your wallet.
FWIW, yea I'd like to see it be cheaper also, but that aside it *is* a very good product. Certainly better than most of the AS/400 titles out there..
I use JBuilder every day. JBuilder 6 is excellent. The integrated test harness (thanks to JUnit), UML, and refactoring tools make all tiers of development MUCH more productive. And EJB development is a breeze in JBuilder. Remote debug facilities have always been top-notch as well.
But where is Borland to go now? As I see it, two areas they need to focus on (just my opinion):
- Improve/Revamp the visual designers (they haven't overhauled this in at least two major releases.
- Provide profiling and memory monitoring tools as part of the IDE.
Now thanks to their investment in OptimizeIT we'll see that (hopefully) with the next release.
Good investment on Borland's part and good move on the part of the OptimizeIT staff and crew. Sold out? More like 'everyone wins'.
OK.. it happened to me... I had to reformat my system and start completely over. You happy now??
I think I'll be 'atken' seriously now.. thank you very much.
But the script kiddies can. And when a new kernel hole is found in an old kernel, Aunt Tille is going to have lots o' warez and pr0n uploaded to her computer in the wee hours o' the morning whether she likes it or not.
;-P
And that issue is timely turnaround of getting updated kernels from the commercial stewards.
;-)
For example I've given up on Redhat ever providing a newer kernel for RH 7.1 than 2.4.9. If I wanted 2.4.16 it was clear I was going to have to build it myself.
The single biggest reason that dear old Auntie needs this ability? Because dear old Auntie doesn't want the dear old script kiddies leaving porn on her computer when she's not using it, that's why. Building newer kernels (with their security fixes) helps make sure this doesn't happen.
But building kernels is *hard* to learn. Yea, sure make xconfig makes it easier. But, hell, I have a Comp Sci degree, wrote my own OS in college and *I* had a hard time figuring out now to build a kernel with the same base feature set as my stock kernel with RH 7.1. So if *I'm* left scratching my...uh.. head.. I'm sure dear ol Auntie is going to be totally overwhelmed, and why should she be? Doesn't it benefit *everyone* if people's computers aren't being exploited by cyber-vandals???
If we're going to get linux distros in more hands it needs to be more available to people. Even if it's only an 'easy config' or 'auto config' for a limited option set to allow the less adept to build 'stock variant' (for lack of a better term) kernels. Over time these people *can* learn the more 1337 t00lz out there like make xconfig...
I've said this multiple times... and posted it on my website titled the RIAA can bite me
Wanna send a clear message to record labels that we won't put up with this? Here's what to do:
Go to you local music store.. if you see a CD that you *know* is copy protected (because a friend has told you or it has a warning label) - even if you don't like it.. buy it. Unwrap it and then *return* to the store for an exchange for something that you *do* like and is *not* copy protected. This way, when record labels get all of the CD's that are protected *back* they'll get a clear message from the music buying public that we WON'T PUT UP WITH THIS TREATMENT!
This is crap! Take a look at the ratings as compared to other SciFi shows:
The X-Files 6.2
Smallville 3.9
Dark Angel 3.3
Enterprise 2.8
Charmed 2.8
The Tick 2.5
Buffy 2.5
Angel 2.5
Special Unit 2 1.8
Roswell 1.4
The Tick is only slightly behind shows like Enterprise. And that tripe roswell is STILL on the air.
This is totally lame and totally sucks. The Tick ROX and Fox should have done more for it than a handful of episodes...
First the Lone Gunmen and now this. What a bunch of puds.
In my kid's diaper..
In that catbox....
Oh wait.. that's not what you're talking about, is it?
This has been a lousy day.
;)
Since I can't speak much about George (tho I loved his Wilbury's and Beatles work) I *do* have this to say about my first time - with the Neo Geo that is...
The first time I saw the Neo Geo was actually in a 'mom and pop' type store in the early 1990's. The two things I first thought where:
- WOW look at the graphics, features and gameplay!!!(and)
- HOLY $**7! Look at the price tag!
There it was.. US$750 and the games were going for US$150 each. This was *not* my idea of what to pay for a console gaming system. But it was a very impressive system, nonetheless...
When I heard about their pocket game system that would work with the Dreamcast I *hoped* this would save them.. I knew they were in trouble when the Dreamcast was cancelled.
Now.. they're just a footnote in Game Console History.. *snif*.
I suppose for both George and SNK I can say the same thing...
Still my guitar gently weeps...
Look, Java bigots can like it or not, but VJ++ was *liked* by MS-bigots.. a lot. So much so that VJ++ is *still* being used by a large group of MS developers out there. Any why not? It does what it's advertised to do -- it makes it possible for people who like Java to write MSWindows-based applications. And at the time, it was the *best* Java IDE available. If you wanted to write MTS components, you wanted to write Windows applications that talked and played nice with the Windows API and Windows controls: no problem!! Just use VJ++. And if you wanted to use Swing (non Java-2 version of course), or write an application that you could deploy with the Sun JDK - again that was no problem. I was certainly able to do it, as were many other Java developers. Fortunately JBuilder and like tools have stepped up in their quality and deployment capabilities and now we can look back on VJ++ as a nice tool for it's time.
.Net is to make the MSJava people happy and provide them a stepping stone over to J#. It won't impact anyone but shops who are already dedicated to providing MS-solutions. It's not going to make people leave J2EE (certainly not a my company, anyway), but if anything, it'll help keep their existing customers happy. Kinda like.. oh.. what Sun is doing with the JCP and JDK 1.4.
I personally never thought it was going to be a threat to Java (and clearly it's never going to be since Sun and Microsoft can't come to a licensing agreement with respect to the Java 2 technologies). Also when they tried to directly compete in the Java space they pissed *everyone* off, even a lot of MS-specific shops. Hence the reason J# is coming out. VJ++ for
The MSVM is real good.. however.. this person did say general performance. I would not consider a mindless for loop something that people *generally* do (unless just learning BASIC, of course). Also you might want to look at the IBM JVM for 1.3, which - without a hotspot engine - is easily on par with MS *and* Sun's JDK 1.3. And have you looked at the JDK 1.4 betas yet? Apparently there are some real nice Swing-oriented performance enhancements to be had there. That might be well worth taking a look at.
Also, is the Java 2D API the VM's fault? Or is that the fault of developers writing flabby code?? The Swing implementation that you can run with the MS-VM, IIRC is the JDK 1.1-specific release and is rather different from the version that ships with 1.3 (including the J2D-API, I think).
BTW, your Jin interface is nice. Obviously a good example of how to write clean high-performance code.
Still, based on what I read here, creating languages that compile to an intermediate code and then are interpreted/recompiled at the OS-level sounds like a good approach for MS. But.. I can't help but think I've heard of this approach somewhere before.... hrm.... Could it be... Java and Hotspot???
Dunno about you folks - but after working with C# for a few months now the C# environment on MS Platforms is everything I wished Java was and more (snappy UI's, super-easy access to the platform,, full support for services and the like, and a great deployment model). I've been _struggling_ for 5 years to get Java to do half as much and frankly gave up on the freggin' language 3 years ago.
Huh??? It sounds to me like you only worked with the language for *two* years and *that* was three years ago. A lot has happened since then....
BTW, has anyone actually programmed a large app in Swing?
Yes.. JBuilder from Borland is 100% written in Java. The Appgen Software companies move their software platforms over to Java so they could deploy to Mac OS/X and Windows *and* Linux.
Granted, there could definitely be more applications, but apps *do* exist and they *do* work. The only reason they're aren't more, AFAIC, is because of idiots who think Java is still "Write Once, Debug Everywhere".
However, I'm glad you're finding a tool that you're productive in. When you get right down to it, that's all that matters....
If C# is so damn much like Java, then why are they making J#?!?!?!
;)
Sorry, you haven't sold me on it.
Oh.. and as for Properties, Events, Delegates (Methods) Java 2 has a PME and has had one for a while. Borland helped Sun with the initial implementation and design of it. The 'Attributes' do sound nice, but could easily be implemented in Java. Again, you haven't sold me on it.
I'm only as confused as you are brainwashed.. ok?
Of course, if you can use it to write killer first person shooter games, then I'll be all for it..
Actually, PK never wrote a line of TP. One of his friends did and brought it to him. That person was Anders' predecessor.
Largest non-MS language used in business? Based on what?? Have you done a job search for programmers lately. For every 100 jobs out there you'll see the that C++ has the highest demand, followed by Java, then VB and THEN (if you even SEE it) Delphi.
Yea I suppose it's one of the largest non-MS environments out there, but Java's is bigger.
And all Anders did was make the Delphi UI. He did NOT come up with the parts of the language that you speak of. The guys who are still at Borland busting their butts are the ones who did that.
I'll look into it. Still I doubt I'll find a de-balled C compiler very interesting. I mean - even MS doesn't have faith in it. Don't believe me? Can you say "J#"? I think you can...
No.. he did not. His predecessor did (I can't remember the guys name right now).
All Anders did was put Borland Pascal into near obscurity. If he hadn't had this 'brilliant idea' that became Delphi his title wouldn't be 'Distinguished Engineer' at Microsoft. It would be "General Manager" at the Denny's in Scotts Valley.
Get your facts straight and have the balls to post as something OTHER than 'Anonymous Coward'.
I'm the masses.... I run Linux... ;-)
Look, my point is that if we continue with this point of view (that Swing isn't going to cut it 'for the masses') it's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally I'd rather be more of an evangelist than that...
There's something you are missing here...
IT RUNS ON MORE THAN ONE OS!!
Therefore it *is* for the masses...
But thanks for your two scents.. it's much appreciated.. x-P
And, FWIW I've been developing in Java since 1.0 as well. So what's your point?
Let's keep a few things straight... Shall we? Oh, I think we shall.
First.. Cringely is a moron. In fact, he's not even the *first* Cringely! He's to tech journalism what the Dread Pirate Roberts in the Princess Bride is to that whole story line! He's a buffoon who took the name from the *previous* Robert X Cringely (and he's either the 4th or 5th RXC the last time I counted). He has no real background in computers and is *hardly* qualified to comment on anything tech related, forget about commenting on languages. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he won't the right to take over the name in a poker game over a few (dozen) beers.
Next.. Let's talk about the creator of C#, Anders.. aka the near killer of Borland Pascal. This guy doesn't have a CLUE about what makes object-oriented languages truly functional. And perfect examples *include* Delphi and C#. Delphi is finally becoming a 'real' OO language *since* his exit from Borland. And what does he do when he first get's to Microsoft? He makes ANOTHER Delphi - including all it's early shortcomings as a developing language, but changes the Pascal syntax for C syntax. The end result is a language (based on C) that is effectively castrated of it's most graceful and useful (C-specific) features. Ander's did you learn nothing from your years at Borland?
Also, how in the name of hell is C# (a Windows-only compiler at this time) going to EVER enter the Java (cross platform) space?? The answer is simply, it won't. No one is going to write a free C# compiler just for Linux and Solaris and with Java available in those platforms already C# is going to have an uphill battle (to say the very least).
Next - and you people who keep saying this either don't use Java or read the Microsoft websites too much - SWING IS NOT DEAD! Swing has more commercial applications written in it now than ever (JBuilder, AppGen, and basically everything from TogetherSoft is just the tip of the iceberg and are just to name a few). Now I'm *terribly sorry* if Java has pump a crimp in your plans to take over the world with Visual Basic, but now it's time to learn a REAL language and use REAL tools to develop REAL applications. Not a damn OLE automation controller with a half-ass scripting language.
OK.. so saying 'it's not as fast as firewire' was understating it a bit... ;-)
;)
Seriously.. Yes.. it takes 5 hours to record a 5 hour minidisc. HOWEVER, it's *still* cheaper and more accessable by the masses than the aPud^H^H^H^H iPod.
Besides, what are you using the audio output on your computer for when you're sleeping, anyway?
Well let's see here.... I think I can tell you why iPod is iLAME. Here's why I won't be buying one.. Out of the four computers in my house...
None of them are Macs.
None of them have Firewire.
This means that none of them can run iTunes.
This also means that none of them can charge the thing.
You want portable music? Get a portable MiniDisc player.
You can get 5 hours of music on 1 MiniDisc and 1 MiniDisc costs 1.50 (using MDLP mode).
*And* I can record to it from my stereo, my Wintel box *or* my Linux box. *AND* it's full digital recording from a CD-player or computer with a digital audio output.
It might not be as fast as Firewire, but it sure as hell is cheaper..!
CIO's can bitch all they want to, but the simple fact is that CIO's are the ones who *started* the 'planned obsolescence' movement. It's called doing business and satisfying your stockholders.
It's *also* called making sure your software is updated along with changing times.
Do you like paying for updates? No? Then you *should* be looking at Open Source solutions. Just remember they aren't exactly a nirvana, either. Open source is great, but not if the open source software you use has been abandoned by those who could do updates to it.
If you want open-source package 'A' to be updated and it's been abandoned then *you* could be the one funding that effort - in which case paying for the commercial package *may* in fact be cheaper..!