"By contrast, the Windows-based PC is designed to be an open platform. Anyone can load software on it; it is easy to write software for it, because all the interfaces are well defined and published; and there are many good software tools available."
We didn't deploy it. We wont begin testing for a long time. Vista doesn't offer us anything worth spending money on. Eventually we will get it, around SP1 time. The group of 30+ machines are for testers.
1. SMB2: Vista introduces a new variant of the SMB protocol called SMB2, which may pose problems for those connecting to non-Microsoft networks, such as Samba on Linux.
Purely speculative >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You're response is speculative too. At the large company I work at, none of the Vista(read 30+) can connect to our samba shares. We still have yet to resolve it.
This is a common mistake, but the OS should do very little. It's applications that do the work. And applications should be separated from the OS. It's things like integrating IE into the OS which has caused MS a lot of grief.
An OS, can and should support SMP. It can benefit from it. Just not in a way that gaming can.
Another thing to think of - is the OS, should be simple and elegantly designed. If your OS benefits from 300 cores, than you're doing something wrong in your OS design. Lets not forget what the OS should do.
infinitely parallel. Gaming on one hand, can be very much parallelized. With physics and an ever increasing amount of vertices to transform and AI to calculate, and in general crap to render.
A lot of other software is not. Such as: Office productivity, operating systems...(these can benefit, but ultimately they'll reach a limit).
The other question is, when you put hundreds of cores on a chip, how do you handle logistics of accessing cache? Or cache coherency?(not required) They it'll go up to 16 or so cores before they might run into some cache latency issues.
I think the other question is... how long till software catches up? We're at a point where hardware has been carrying software. Software is coded for the most part, pretty crapily(thanks to out of order cores). When are the software designers going to get with the program and leverage hardware more? I know hardware is very dynamic. But, now we're seeing hardware reach it's limit, and that multiple cores don't do anything unless some key multi-threaded apps are running.
That said, I'm going to suggest that you people talk to your COMPANY
LAWYERS on this, and I'm personally not going to merge that particular
code unless you can convince the people you work for to merge it first.
In other words, you guys know my stance. I'll not fight the combined
opinion of other kernel developers, but I sure as hell won't be the first
to merge this, and I sure as hell won't have _my_ tree be the one that
causes this to happen.
So go get it merged in the Ubuntu, (Open)SuSE and RHEL and Fedora trees
first. This is not something where we use my tree as a way to get it to
other trees. This is something where the push had better come from the
other direction.
I think he's more worried with legal implementations.
WHAT? Look, if I wanted to goto prison, I'd commit a crime. I think parents should have some overview of kids. But, when is enough enough? Why can't I have any privacy? And, for your information, I moved out the day I turned 18. The parents should have some type of relationship with the children so they can teach them the right way.
For instance - My parents always stressed the difference between real life and video games. I played mortal kombat and every other violent game you could think of. And, did I need to be monitored? No, because I never did anything bad. Because I knew the difference. So, do I want my parents to see everything I do? No. They trusted in me to do the right thing.
To quote Bush to terrorists: "Bring it on!" Result: We're getting our asses kicked.
To quote MS to Blackhats: "Bring it on!" Result: Look at XP and they didn't invite anybody.
MS has enough problems with BHs already. To invite them? WTF? Lot's of people at MS are already saying they wont make it in time and that the code is bad to begin with. Do they not listen to their own people?
these new chips are still based on the AGTL+ bus, which doesn't compete with HyperTransport. While it'll add perfomance, can you imagine a 4way 4x4 setup with Intel? You will have 16cores sharing one bus w/ half the bandwith of HT, NOT PRETTY!
Intel got lazy because AMD wasn't a threat. Then, AMD opened up a can of whoop ass, and showed Intel how to make a chip. Even newer chips that came out still didn't hold up to AMD. But, NOW! Look at Intel go. Finally we have some interesting competition.
Ok, back to my concern. This processor is considerably better than anything else out there. Can, AMD rectify this? Will Reverse-HT be all that it's cracked up to be? 4x4? Can AMD stay alive long enough and be smart enough to keep up the competition. Or will AMD be a one hit wonder? I hope AMD will stay in there and keep Intel in check. I think Intel needs to be around to keep AMD in check.
But, what about the saturation rate? I mean, sales may decline, but most likely due to saturation in the market. Once people have a PC they don't want to buy another one. The number of nerds who buy multiple computers is low, and the nerd freaks that buy parts every 3 months for 1/10th fps faster are even lower. and the number of people don't want to upgrade. I can't remember, but who knows how many people are still running Windows 98? I've had to work on 98 machines just because people had no reason to upgrade. (There are lots of reasons) But in their mind they didn't give a damn. It worked for what they needed.
Slashdot Mirror
From http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output _protect.mspx
From the doc
"By contrast, the Windows-based PC is designed to be an open platform. Anyone can load software on it; it is easy to write software for it, because all the interfaces are well defined and published; and there are many good software tools available."
Open platform? By who's definition?
LOL!
"the truth is Vista is pretty much the only game in town."
Read: We didn't have another choice. Nobody else offered us money.
We didn't deploy it. We wont begin testing for a long time. Vista doesn't offer us anything worth spending money on. Eventually we will get it, around SP1 time. The group of 30+ machines are for testers.
1. SMB2: Vista introduces a new variant of the SMB protocol called SMB2, which may pose problems for those connecting to non-Microsoft networks, such as Samba on Linux.
Purely speculative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You're response is speculative too. At the large company I work at, none of the Vista(read 30+) can connect to our samba shares. We still have yet to resolve it.
This is a common mistake, but the OS should do very little. It's applications that do the work. And applications should be separated from the OS. It's things like integrating IE into the OS which has caused MS a lot of grief.
An OS, can and should support SMP. It can benefit from it. Just not in a way that gaming can.
Another thing to think of - is the OS, should be simple and elegantly designed. If your OS benefits from 300 cores, than you're doing something wrong in your OS design. Lets not forget what the OS should do.
infinitely parallel. Gaming on one hand, can be very much parallelized. With physics and an ever increasing amount of vertices to transform and AI to calculate, and in general crap to render.
A lot of other software is not. Such as: Office productivity, operating systems...(these can benefit, but ultimately they'll reach a limit).
The other question is, when you put hundreds of cores on a chip, how do you handle logistics of accessing cache? Or cache coherency?(not required) They it'll go up to 16 or so cores before they might run into some cache latency issues.
I think the other question is... how long till software catches up? We're at a point where hardware has been carrying software. Software is coded for the most part, pretty crapily(thanks to out of order cores). When are the software designers going to get with the program and leverage hardware more? I know hardware is very dynamic. But, now we're seeing hardware reach it's limit, and that multiple cores don't do anything unless some key multi-threaded apps are running.
I think he's more worried with legal implementations.
All your database are belong to Oracle!
MS: Open source sucks!
People: Why?
MS: Uh, because, it just does.
People: Oh, ok. Thats neat.
Yeah, this is obviously an open and shut case.
There are some amazing closed source products. None of which are produced by MS. There are also amazing open source projects.
So?
Embracing F/OSS imho, is good. I love the community aspect. And, when done right can be worth while.
WHAT? Look, if I wanted to goto prison, I'd commit a crime. I think parents should have some overview of kids. But, when is enough enough? Why can't I have any privacy? And, for your information, I moved out the day I turned 18. The parents should have some type of relationship with the children so they can teach them the right way.
For instance - My parents always stressed the difference between real life and video games. I played mortal kombat and every other violent game you could think of. And, did I need to be monitored? No, because I never did anything bad. Because I knew the difference. So, do I want my parents to see everything I do? No. They trusted in me to do the right thing.
Seriously, it's bad enough that parents want to track kids. Now kids are helping parents track kids.
Wake up!
Please tell me I'm not the only one who's thoroughly dissapoined in no new iPod?
To quote Bush to terrorists: "Bring it on!"
Result: We're getting our asses kicked.
To quote MS to Blackhats: "Bring it on!"
Result: Look at XP and they didn't invite anybody.
MS has enough problems with BHs already. To invite them? WTF? Lot's of people at MS are already saying they wont make it in time and that the code is bad to begin with. Do they not listen to their own people?
how do you like those space apples?
playing tux racer on this?!?!?! How about Starcraft? Omg!!!111 1zeryg rUSh!!!!11!!loL1zer
but, my eyes aren't encoding with divx ;)
So, if what I see is roughly the same throughput as ethernet.
Maybe I should rub my eye against a cat 5 cable connected to a computer!
then I believe we can have world peace.
these new chips are still based on the AGTL+ bus, which doesn't compete with HyperTransport. While it'll add perfomance, can you imagine a 4way 4x4 setup with Intel? You will have 16cores sharing one bus w/ half the bandwith of HT, NOT PRETTY!
...when technology to track us gets better?
Raise my hand if your a telepath.
Believe me! Sunlight is good!
Can we also blame Windows for the number of viruses and exploits available? If so, it should switch to using an open source model.
I have some concerns here -
Intel got lazy because AMD wasn't a threat. Then, AMD opened up a can of whoop ass, and showed Intel how to make a chip. Even newer chips that came out still didn't hold up to AMD. But, NOW! Look at Intel go. Finally we have some interesting competition.
Ok, back to my concern. This processor is considerably better than anything else out there. Can, AMD rectify this? Will Reverse-HT be all that it's cracked up to be? 4x4? Can AMD stay alive long enough and be smart enough to keep up the competition. Or will AMD be a one hit wonder? I hope AMD will stay in there and keep Intel in check. I think Intel needs to be around to keep AMD in check.
But, what about the saturation rate? I mean, sales may decline, but most likely due to saturation in the market. Once people have a PC they don't want to buy another one. The number of nerds who buy multiple computers is low, and the nerd freaks that buy parts every 3 months for 1/10th fps faster are even lower. and the number of people don't want to upgrade. I can't remember, but who knows how many people are still running Windows 98? I've had to work on 98 machines just because people had no reason to upgrade. (There are lots of reasons) But in their mind they didn't give a damn. It worked for what they needed.