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EA Calls for Open Platform/Single Console for Games

eldavojohn writes "EA's head of international publishing made some interesting comments on what he'd like to see in the future of gaming. 'We want an open, standard platform which is much easier than having five which are not compatible.' While the rest of his comments imply that he simply meant 'one' platform instead of removing development licenses, it is an interesting concept. This is obviously a move designed to cut their development time and costs. But could this have other implications - like easier homebrew development for consoles?"

188 comments

  1. Good luck with that by eln · · Score: 3, Funny

    I want a unicorn. I bet I get my wish before you get yours, EA.

    1. Re:Good luck with that by Nossie · · Score: 1

      "EA Calls for Single Games Publisher for Consoles"

      There... fixed that bullshit for yah.

      The quicker EA falls apart the happier I'll be.

    2. Re:Good luck with that by Zencyde · · Score: 3, Funny

      Too late, the PC was invented a while ago. ZING!

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    3. Re:Good luck with that by dtml-try+MyNick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am not a developer but I can imagine that it would be far far easier to develop a game that has to run on 2 or 3 standard (console)platforms then on a PC.

      Every console has a fixed set of hardware. If it works on a console it simply works. No worries after that about compatiblity.
      If you design a game for the PC you have to factor in a gazillion types of hardware which seems to me a much harder job to do.

      --
      Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
    4. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not a developer but I can imagine that it would be far far easier to develop a game that has to run on 2 or 3 standard (console)platforms then on a PC. Why would it be easier to do it on the consoles first and then on the PC? I can see how focusing on a narrower range of hardware first and then expanding to a wider range later might be easier than going for a wide range straight away but you can develop on a narrow subset of PCs first if that's what you're trying to achieve. I guess your way might give a marketable product quicker though, that's a real advanatge but it doesn't make the process easier as such.
    5. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already screw their employees for more profits... now they want to screw OUR hardware solely for their profits. Jam it up your ass and chew 32 times, EA.

    6. Re:Good luck with that by CogDissident · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, thats really just a cop-out used by console-makers. If a game runs on windows with the same minimum system specs, it will run on basically any windows machine with the same specs regardless.

      The only problem comes with video cards, and even then you really only have to develop for nvidia and ATI, and even if you don't develop for those specifically the game will run fine, just a bit slower.

  2. They tried that and it didn't work too well. by qweqwe321 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Remember the 3DO?

    1. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by ewhac · · Score: 1
      Damn. Beat me to it.

      They've been pursuing that Holy Grail for at least 15 years. Maybe the generation of consoles following the current one will be the set that's visually rich enough and fast enough that anything beyond it falls into the realm of diminishing returns.

      Schwab

    2. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >Remember the 3DO?

      Yes and that was the brian child of the founder of EA (Tripp). So they don't remember their own founder's failures which is even worse.

    3. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by Surt · · Score: 1

      Not even close. Maybe in 3 more generations. There is so soo sooo much you could do better with a lot more compute power right now.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing it's more likely they do remember, and would really like for it to happen while making for damned sure that it's someone else who hangs their success on it.

      Of course, they're also glossing over the fact that every console maker also wants this--they just want their proprietary console to be the One True Console of the generation.

    5. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "They tried that and it didn't work too well. Remember the 3DO?"

      That's hardly a useful metric considering that the 3DO's failure was a combination of a high price and next-to-zero killer apps.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    6. Re:They tried that and it didn't work too well. by Victor+Antolini · · Score: 1

      Indeed, that's what I always think. Try to put yourself 10 years ago. The predictions you could have made about the state of tech we are into right now would have been a bit low. I mean, I can try to predict stuff in 10 years, and it's more likely that it will much more awesome than what I come up with!

  3. Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds great! And then we can license the platform to other companies to produce lots of different versions of this console... and it can be produced by some a EA director seeing as they're pushing the idea, and we can call it the 3D-------oh wait

  4. Linux Game Console by HartDev · · Score: 0

    This is the only way I see that happening, I read in a xbox hacking book that the Sega Dreamcast died when they could pirate games for that system. My best bet would be making a really good tv out card driver and then making console like games for the Linux PC and making sure a really good controller has support.

    --
    To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
    1. Re:Linux Game Console by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

      hunt the wumpus doesn't use a jostick.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:Linux Game Console by stevenvi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You make a good point, but it is flawed.

      Consoles are dedicated video game machines, and as such are much more affordable than fully functioning computers. So once people buy their hot new video game console they have more cash left over for games.

      Oh, wait a minute, it seems that the cheapest PS3 on the market is more expensive than a desktop computer+flatscreen monitor combo...

    3. Re:Linux Game Console by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read in a xbox hacking book that the Sega Dreamcast died when they could pirate games for that system.


      Urban legend. The decision to discontinue Dreamcast production was due to lackluster hardware sales (software sales were brisk), the decision was made by Sega of Japan based on the Japanese market (where piracy is uncommon), and it all went down long before DC piracy became widespread on the net.

      (And really, it would make no sense for a company whose fortunes were ruined by piracy to reinvent themselves as... a software development house.)
    4. Re:Linux Game Console by nschubach · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Good luck playing any games besides Solitaire on that $400 PC.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    5. Re:Linux Game Console by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      My laptop cost $400 and plays all the EA games quite well.

      You were saying?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    6. Re:Linux Game Console by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      My desktop cost about as much as a PS3, and it runs C&C3 and TF2 as smooth as butter.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    7. Re:Linux Game Console by MaXiMiUS · · Score: 1

      My desktops specifications are very similar to that $400 PC (200GB HDD instead of 160GB, nVidia 6200 instead of 6100, considerably worse, but overclocked P4 processor...), and I can run Team Fortress 2, as well as all of the other Half-Life 2 derivatives (see: Portal) smoothly. It also runs BioShock (which, IMHO, is a HORRIBLY overrated game), with some tinkering -- smoothly as well.

      I guess it's just because you CAN'T fuck up a console with crappy software and misconfiguration, that people think they outperform similarly-priced PCs. FYI: My PC was built in 2002, and I bought it used.

      --
      It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
  5. Dear EA by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dear EA,

    Make your own, and publish games exclusively for it. Let us know how well that works out for you.

    Thanks.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
    1. Re:Dear EA by solcott · · Score: 1

      It would probably work out pretty well for them. I mean the way people flock to $sport - $year games, The Sims franchise, and the Battlefield franchise they would probably easily have more than half of the gamers in America right there.

    2. Re:Dear EA by morari · · Score: 1

      I wish they would! The other consoles' display areas wouldn't be cluttered with EA's crap then! :P

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    3. Re:Dear EA by Osty · · Score: 3, Informative

      Make your own, and publish games exclusively for it. Let us know how well that works out for you.

      They should ask EA founder Trip Hawkins how well that went ...

    4. Re:Dear EA by Surt · · Score: 1

      Since they own the Madden (and all the other sports) franchises, it would probably go quite well for them.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    5. Re:Dear EA by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Make your own, and publish games exclusively for it.
      Seems to work pretty well for Nintendo. Apple too, if you replace "games" with "operating system and programs".
  6. Yes by trickonion · · Score: 1

    Yes, I'm sure they do, I'm sure they do.

    --
    I got you an Andes mint, but it melted in my pocket
  7. Open platform? by Blackhalo · · Score: 1

    "But could this have other implications - like easier homebrew development for consoles?" I am pretty sure that is NOT what EA is looking for. I am pretty sure they enjoy the high cost of entry that the console market provides. If they had any sack, they would develop their own X-Box like system and develop to that. I think that they have enough licenses in the sports arena alone to drive sales. Hell find a partner, negotiate an exclusive agreement and go.

    --
    "There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
  8. Interesting, but no. by Sta7ic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Short form: homogeneous consoles => fewer console sales => less money

    EA's hoping that the console turns into too much of a gaming appliance, which isn't going to happen. The economics behind it are just plain shot when you take a number of products that have their unique differences, such as platform-specific games and platform-specific controllers, and attempt to homogenize them into a group that has limited differences. The asymmetric competition between the consoles is the reason why sales are quite as high as they are, since a consumer may end up purchasing a Wii and an XBox 360 if they want to play Game X and Game Y, rather than being able to purchase a generic console that will play both games and take both the wireless pad and the nunchuck.

    A standard set of requirements isn't going to happen either. While Sony and Nintendo are happy to work with OpenGL, for example, it'll be a very cold day before you see Microsoft embracing modern OpenGL support alongside their DirectX baby. Each console manufacturer wants to have a share of the market based on what their console can do that others can't -- see the Wii. Some are going to go after the newest technology and play Blu-rays, others are going to have DVD remotes, some will include hard drives. The console manufacturers will not see any particular utility in adding "allows competitors to play 'our' games" to the list of requirements.

    Emulation may happen, by comparison, in one fashion or another. However, the above still applies, since any game that can be run using a standard engine can also be run by their competitors.

    Devs would love the idea, I'll wager. Learn the technology once and keep developing for the same, iteratively improving target. They'd love it up until the publishers stop getting paid for platform-exclusive releases.

    1. Re:Interesting, but no. by PrinceOfStorms · · Score: 1

      Devs would love the idea, I'll wager. Learn the technology once and keep developing for the same, iteratively improving target. They'd love it up until the publishers stop getting paid for platform-exclusive releases.

      I don't know about that. At the moment, different consoles not only suit different consumers, they potentially also suit different developers. Homogenising the console would also tend to homogenise the games and the development process. Maybe developers like variety as much as consumers?

    2. Re:Interesting, but no. by grimdawg · · Score: 1

      Actually, in a perfect world, homogeneous consoles would not only increase that amount of money gamers had to spend on games (where these people make their money - not on the console sale), but would dramatically decrease costs for devs.

      It costs an arseload more cash to make a game for PS3 and 360 than it would for just one console.

      In a perfect world.

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and nine other kinds of people.
    3. Re:Interesting, but no. by Phisbut · · Score: 1

      A standard set of requirements isn't going to happen either. While Sony and Nintendo are happy to work with OpenGL, for example, it'll be a very cold day before you see Microsoft embracing modern OpenGL support alongside their DirectX baby.

      And that is exactly why EA should put their money where their mouth is. If you really want open standards to develop on, then realize that OpenGL is just that for the PC, and stop releasing games that require DirectX. As long as a company won't do that, I won't believe their "We want open standards" bullshit.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    4. Re:Interesting, but no. by Sta7ic · · Score: 1

      Again, the developers would love the idea of "write once, run anywhere" sort of software/games. The console manufacturers would NOT appreciate it, because their market would go the way of the desktop computer. Dell, Compaq, HP, PeoplePC, and DIY'ers all make what is inevitably the same product from different pieces, and that market is as stable as it is because of the skills required to put a PC together AND the volume of computers consumed. The console market is a different kind of beast because of the lower volume, the differentiated products (XBox vs. Wii vs. PS#), and the elastic demand for new consoles (you don't NEED one, you WANT one, and can live without one).

      Surviving in the console market isn't all about winning the hearts of developers, it's about putting out a superior product that is more fun, provides more useful functions (DVD playback), or can run games better, than the next machine. The developers are only in the equation for getting more games on the platform, which is being done through developer acquisitions and publishing contracts.

  9. I blame accounting by Volante3192 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone in accounting realized they could increase their profit margin if they didn't have to pay 3 teams of developers.

    Rumours that this same accountant found that the sweet spot of sales was 850 copies at $77.10 each have, as yet, been unconfirmed.

    1. Re:I blame accounting by obarel · · Score: 1

      Three teams of developers? Why three? A single team can work a little harder, a little faster, a few more hours every week, and produce the output of three "standard" teams. And since there's no overtime pay involved, there's no actual increase in profit margin.

      It only means they'll burn out a little faster, when they have to produce three games in the time it takes them to produce a single game now (but since we're talking about three identical games, built on the original 1995 engine, it doesn't make much difference).

  10. We already have one by Hells · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's called the PC.

    1. Re:We already have one by tyrantking31 · · Score: 1

      Damn it. I was going to post that. Five minutes too late.

      --
      We willna be fooled again!
    2. Re:We already have one by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what OS are you running? I bet it's not linux or os x since there aren't very many games out for those because they're different platforms. Yet they're still PCs.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    3. Re:We already have one by morari · · Score: 1

      And what OS are you running? I bet it's not linux or os x since there aren't very many games out for those because they're different platforms. Yet they're still PCs. Last time I checked, Macs aren't PCs.

      You're right though. PCs would have to have a set standard for it to work. As it is now, it's probably even more hectic than developing for consoles since you have to take into account the various possible hardware configurations. Still, I'd generally rather see and play games on my PC than a console.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    4. Re:We already have one by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fine. Too many operating systems on a PC to qualify? I have another platform for you.

      It's called meatspace.

      Card-battle game? Sell cards.

      Strategy game? Print it on cardboard and sell plastic or metal game pieces.

      Puzzle game? Sell puzzle pieces.

      Want a first-person shooter? Sell guns. (Respawning limited by player's faith.)

      Third-person shooter? Add VR goggles and a tethered floating camera to follow you.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    5. Re:We already have one by networkassault · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've gotten a solution for you. It's called WINE. It consists of open sourced libraries designed to mimic Windows libraries. In fact, it can even incorporate MS libraries like DirectX. All apps are compatible with it as long as it doesn't make any weird calls for some mysterious driver. For instance, there's a healthy community of players on WoW who use their Linux boxes, thanks to WINE.

      --
      "I'm glad I'm going to die because, when I do, the world's gonna go to the dogs." -Me on aging and the next generation.
    6. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PC is far from being a uniform platform. Thanks though, nice try.

    7. Re:We already have one by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I love PC gaming with the keyboard/mouse, and I have had a joystick, gamepad and steering wheel over the years. Somehow, though I don't know how we could miss it we never got a 4-port controller extension and some semi-standard multiplayer controller. Even the games that we used to play two-player usually meant each of us using one half of the keyboard each. That was the single biggest failure of PC gaming in my opinion, and it happened exactly because there was noone willing to stand up and commit to it. Don't get me wrong, I think consoles have their advantages - but I wish the PC was at least a player. Because, well there's PC games and then there's this huge market for games where the PC doesn't register with a blip.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, Macs aren't PCs.

      I dunno... Intel x86 processor and you can run the same version of Windows that you'd install on a PC on them. I'd call that a PC for all practical purposes.

    9. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, Macs aren't PCs.

      Please check again. The abbreviation "PC" is commonly used to mean "personal computer" these days, rather than referring to the specific IBM-PC or compatible devices. Few people today care if their personal computers are compatible with the IBM-PC.


      By this common usage, a Mac definitely is a PC.

    10. Re:We already have one by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      You know, even Apple disagrees with you.

    11. Re:We already have one by MacTO · · Score: 1

      I rarely played games for 15 years because of PCs, even though there are a few games that I love. Then I bought a console. The console solve the problem of hardware and software compatibility. I can buy used console games and not have to worry about dysfunctional copy protection mechanisms injecting themselves into my system. (Whatever they do with consoles just works.) The console keep my entertainment separate from the work I do.

    12. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [sarcasm]
      Yes, clearly Apple is an unbiased party in such matters.
      [/sarcasm]

    13. Re:We already have one by scott_karana · · Score: 1

      Thanks, that'll allow me to play PPC MacOS games.

    14. Re:We already have one by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, like Marathon, Snood, Breakout... Super Breakout... Photoshop...

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    15. Re:We already have one by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      apple just does that to make fools think their crap is "special" somehow. Even microsoft is getting in on this act with their "games for windows" brand trying to push "windows" as the platform instead of the generic "PC" name. I just wish the moron gamer kids running windows would realize that "Linux" and "PC" are as comparable as communism and democracy. "PC" means either x86-compatible or generic personal computer, it doesn't mean "windows" you fuckwits!

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    16. Re:We already have one by Gabest · · Score: 1

      OS? Consoles don't have that. Just program the hardware (x86) as real men do!

    17. Re:We already have one by TheQuantumShift · · Score: 1

      With 3 versions of Windows, 1 Mac OS, and approximately eleventybillion Linux distributions. And it's size (If you want hardware capable of today's games) and noise (unless you shell out for a true quit case/fans) preclude it from the living room. And it just looks fantastic when using an SD display. So yeah, lets ditch the consoles already.

      --

      Shift happens. Fire it up.
    18. Re:We already have one by psyph3r · · Score: 1

      exactly my thoughts, not to mention the years of experience accumulated in the industry. probably why the 360 is so easy to develop for

    19. Re:We already have one by byolinux · · Score: 1

      I'm running IA64 you insensitive clod!

    20. Re:We already have one by scott_karana · · Score: 1

      Nah, you can do Marathon in Aleph One.

    21. Re:We already have one by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      would realize that "Linux" and "PC" are as comparable as communism and democracy.

      Funny, but you're right for the wrong reason.

      In theory, communism and democracy work just fine together. In practice, the guys who are ruled by their baser nature cause enough disturbance, that either communism dies or democracy does. Capitalism works because it aligns the most amoral drives of society with those of society as a whole: for something to displace capitalism, it will have to overcome this serious advantage.

      In a like way, "PC" is a personal computer. It is intended to be used by a non-programmer, to do tasks that are relatively mundane compared to classic computing works -- writing, accounting, maybe playing a few games. Linux, thanks to the GPL, doesn't cater to this market very well; the base nature of the programmers prevents them from bothering to make a computer for someone else, and the base nature of the owners keeps them from fiscally rewarding those who would try so.

      OTOH, if you said "socialism" instead of "communism", and "home computer" instead of "PC", well, then Europe and the Tivo would prove you right.

    22. Re:We already have one by aichpvee · · Score: 0, Troll

      No, I'm right for the right reasons and you are a bit of an idiot. Linux can run on a "PC" or a "PC" can run something else, regardless of how one defines "PC." Communism is an economic system that can or can not be run democratically. That you don't understand these concepts is not surprising, but it's pretty fucking sad anyway.

      To sum your post up by paragraph:

      1) You're wrong. You are correct that your post is funny, though.
      2) You're wrong and clearly don't know what you are talking about, but you're trying very hard to sound like you have a clue about anything.
      3) You're wrong, again. Your comments on the state and nature of Linux shows that you have no idea what you are talking about and your blaming of these imagined ills on the GPL is beyond absurd.
      4) Communism is a form of socialism, moron.

      Thanks for playing, but you've failed spectacularly. Feel free to agree with me again in the future, but don't bother trying to break me down unless you bring some sense or at least a passing knowledge of the subjects at hand.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    23. Re:We already have one by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

      Why not have every game on a LiveCD of some sort, which can connect to the net and download updated drivers as needed onto a USB stick? The USB stick data can also be downloaded and copied in case the LiveCD can't even get you on the net.

    24. Re:We already have one by hrieke · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't really matter now, would it- if EA wrote their own OS that the system boots into to play the game, and if they gave it a place to store the save games to a web site, USB drive, or read / write access to a hard disk.

      --
      III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIIIV IIVIIIIIIVIII...
    25. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here we have it, the most ignorant post in the thread. morari, please step forward and claim your award, your very first dictionary.

    26. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, it's a good thing for you there's a place to be an anonymous asshole without risk of getting your teeth smashed in.

    27. Re:We already have one by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      Sure is, for a coward and moron such as yourself. You must make your teddy bear collection in your mom's basement tremble in fear with anonymous threats like that. Not everyone outside is a coward like you, buddy. Quite a few of us would break you down if you even thought that kind of thing in "real life."

      So take your ignorance, stupidity, and cowardice back downstairs and ask your mom if she'll make you some tea for that tea party you have to attend with Mr. Bear. Don't forget to put on your very best dress, you know how he likes you in pink.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    28. Re:We already have one by FigTree · · Score: 1

      Which is essentially what modern consoles are.

    29. Re:We already have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My, what a hate-filled prick you are.

    30. Re:We already have one by brkello · · Score: 1

      We are talking about gaming. I don't think you need to specify an OS when talking about PC gaming. You can assume it is Windows. If you are talking about gaming on a different OS..then you need to specify WINE, Mac, etc.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  11. There is one, it's called the PC. by EWAdams · · Score: 1, Troll


    OK, so there's a certain amount of variation in the hardware configuration. :) That's what you get with open standards.

    Personally I think consoles mostly suck for playing games on. The controller is a crappy input device and the television is a crappy output device. The reason they're such a hit with the public is that they're 0.5 to 0.1 times the price of a PC, and the reason for THAT is -- aha -- they're not open-standard.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by TexVex · · Score: 1

      and the television is a crappy output device
      Heh. My 360 looks freaking gorgeous on my 56" 1080p DLP. It's very nice to play with the screen across the room, not right up in my face like my computer monitor.

      Oh, and my PC display looks nice hooked up to it as well.
      --
      Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
    2. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by ch0ad · · Score: 1

      since when was a microsoft OS considered an "open standard" on slashdot :p

    3. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The controller is a crappy input device and the television is a crappy output device"

      Ya those 60 inch LCDS are terrible compared to those 20 inch LCDs :p Regular TVs suck compared to a monitor but with HDTV and 5.1 surround sound - those consoles aren't lookin so bad if not superior to most PC gaming set ups.

      and some games play better on mouse/keyboard - some on a joypad - depends on the game

    4. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by BlueCollarCamel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Heh. My 360 looks freaking gorgeous on my 56" 1080p DLP. It's very nice to play with the screen across the room, not right up in my face like my computer monitor.
      Oh, and my PC display looks nice hooked up to it as well.
      Doesn't make your penis any bigger.
      --
      1&1 - Cheap domain and web hosting.
    5. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by BarneyL · · Score: 1

      The thing is gaming PCs are not cheap, compare the cost of an Xbox 360 to a PC that is up to running the likes of Oblivion and Bioshock.
      It's better to buy the console and a cheaper PC/Laptop that is up to running everything excluding games. Not only does it save money but Mum and Dad can use the PC while the kids play games (or vice versa). Also once you have the console you know it will run everything released for it, my experience of PCs is that the time after which you need to drop in a new console priced graphics card (if not more) to run the latest games is far shorter than between console generations.

    6. Re:There is one, it's called the PC. by btgreat · · Score: 1

      I used to feel the same way about consoles, but ever since the wide dispersion of HDTVs and HD output from consoles, I really don't think the television is a hindrance any more. Have you played an Xbox 360 or PS3 yet? 780p is enough that I have nothing to complain about graphically. While I do believe that PCs will always be superior graphically, I don't believe the difference merits the "crappy" description you gave it.

      And as for the controller, it seems clear that you are either an RTS or FPS gamer. While these two genres of gaming are particularly well developed on the PC, the controller really isn't lacking in many other game types. The platform, adventure, (console) RPG, fighting, and racing genres all take excellent advantage of the controller, and I would much prefer to use a controller as opposed to a mouse/keyboard in nearly all of those game types. There is no question (at least, not in my mind) as to the dominance of mouse aiming in an FPS or keyboard versatility in RTS, but there is a very diverse collection of games and genres (wii sports comes to mind), more popular outside of the PC scene, for which a controller is certainly not a "crappy" input device.

  12. Two good things by RichPowers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One: the console fanboys will have nothing to argue about. Wait, scratch that. We'd probably have posts about how UniConsole's red scheme is outselling the white scheme, but behind the jet black scheme followed. This would be followed by pages of overwrought analysis, flame wars, and someone posting goatse before the thread lock :p

    Two: EA believes that in THE FUTURE, gamers might play on Nintendo "channels" and Sony "channels" through some universal console. Doubtful, but I hope virtual console offerings are expanded across the board. Digital distribution is relatively cheap and EA, Nintendo, etc. could sell games for years or even decades after release. Maybe a Steam-like system that allows me to transfer games from console to console with guaranteed compatibility?

    As it stands, there are hundreds of games that are effectively lost to time for no good reason. Consoles come and go, games stop being manufactured, and eager players either have to buy rehashes (and the required hardware), expensive used copies, or resort to emulation (which doesn't always work, especially with PS1 games). With digital distribution there's no reason why classic games, which aren't inherently scarce, have to be so difficult to find. Plus digital distribution will help bankrupt the assholes at Gamestop...assuming Comcast doesn't throttle your game downloads!

    1. Re:Two good things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sony has been selling downloadable versions of PS1 games for the PS3 and PSP on the playstation network since last year. They've unfortunately been pretty slow to get them out, but unlike a certain other console manufacturer, they seem to have at least some commitment to backwards compatibility.

  13. 1991 called... by fo0bar · · Score: 1
    1. Re:1991 called... by spleen_blender · · Score: 1

      Link, mah boy!

  14. Sure! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sure, dude. I'm sure we can all agree on using linux and programming everything with ncurses. right, guys?

  15. Hmm by Hsien-Ko · · Score: 1

    I wonder what happened to Infinium? It tried to do this.

  16. easy solution: live cds by drfrog · · Score: 1

    just make a dvd/cd that can be used in any compute//console

    have it cache data files to a harddrive if possible

    done!

    --
    back in the day we didnt have no old school
    1. Re:easy solution: live cds by Solra+Bizna · · Score: 1

      just make a dvd/cd that can be used in any compute//console

      How?

      -:sigma.SB

      --
      WARN
      THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM
    2. Re:easy solution: live cds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me, drfrog, how I may go about becoming a "member of the international web community". Where do I send my application?

  17. Of course... by JK_the_Slacker · · Score: 1

    One console means less negotations about buying out the company.

    Also, somewhere, Steve Ballmer throws a chair.

    --
    I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
  18. Sure, great idea. by ucblockhead · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Either the "open standard" will be extremely flexible, in which case you'll have all the problems you have with PC gaming, what with random problems with devices and confusing requirements, that drives people to consoles in the first place, or the "open standard" will be inflexible, in which case, forget expecting any innovative features like the Wiimote.

    --
    The cake is a pie
    1. Re:Sure, great idea. by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Either the "open standard" will be extremely flexible, in which case you'll have all the problems you have with PC gaming, what with random problems with devices and confusing requirements, that drives people to consoles in the first place


      I think what drives people to consoles is that the price:performance ratio at entry is better because consoles are heavily subsidized (very narrow margin, or actually sold at a loss) which gets made up for on the tail end by the cut of game sales the console makers demand in exchange for access to the platform.

      Of course, that means the long-term cost probably isn't much different, but the entry cost is, and that keeps consumers buying consoles, because its cheaper to buy a console than a computer as well built for gaming, and once you have the console, it makes sense to keep buying more games.

      Of course, that whole model doesn't work if the platform is open, since the console-maker can't recoup the subsidy.
    2. Re:Sure, great idea. by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Maybe. What drove me to console gaming was being fucking sick and tired of getting new video cards every year, dealing with DRM that refused to work with my CD drive, and games that crash without the latest of 15 patches. I got fucking sick and tired of deciding to sit down for a half hour of Diablo II or Counterstrike or Unreal Tournement only to be told "Sorry...you don't get to play without an our long upgrade process!" It wasn't price that drove me to consoles. It was knowing that if I go to Best Buy and by a game that has my console's name on it, it is 99% likely to work without any frustration.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    3. Re:Sure, great idea. by Gnostic+Ronin · · Score: 1

      I don't think so.

      I get a console over a PC for a couple of reasons. Cost isn't one of them.

      1.) Developers mess with my DLLs. Sometimes this breaks other programs I'm already using. I've had a few programs die this way. I use my PC for other things besides gaming, and I need them to work.

      2.) With consoles up to this point (and I think it could change now that they have HD choice) it's been simple to figure out what works on my machine. If it says ps2 on the box, it works in my launch day ps2. Even if it were released tommarow for ps2, it will work on any ps2. PC gamers have to worry about graphics cards being up to date, drivers, RAM, disk space, OS type, etc.

      3.) A lot of buggy PC software gets released -- they'll freeze of crash or they just plain won't work. The solution seems to be to wait for the developers to fix the problem and release a patch. A console game works right out of the box. I've never yet had a game refuse to work in my ps2.

      For me, it boils down to convienience -- I don't have to worry about whether my system will play a random game. If it has the name of the console on the box, it works in that console. Put it in and play.

  19. Well, duh. by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    EA's head of international publishing made some interesting comments on what he'd like to see in the future of gaming. 'We want an open, standard platform which is much easier than having five which are not compatible.'


    Of course you do, your business is selling entertainment (including console) software.

    OTOH, the people whose business is selling development licenses to entertainment software platforms (that is, console makers) don't want that, and you whining and stomping your feet about it isn't going to get them to change as long as you keep helping them out by making software for their consoles. And if you stop making software for their consoles, well, you'll cut off your own major source of income, and probably not change their behavior at all.

  20. Certainly possible... by NekoXP · · Score: 1

    The three top-end games consoles currently run PowerPC processors - a change from the last generation where it was x86, PPC and MIPS.

    The two major games consoles run MIPS and ARM. But there's no good reason for that other than simple wealth of development talent for those two processors - Gameboy has always run ARM (since moving away from the 6502 in the Gameboy Advance) and Playstation ran MIPS so the PSP runs MIPS. It is always a wrestle to get your entire development community to switch processors. No games console developer wants to do an "Apple to Intel switch" every 3 years and the mindshare problems with it.

    PowerPC might be the answer for the CPU - a standard, long-lived architecture which is only going to be going places. Along with a graphics card standard they can all rely on, not necessarily all ATI or all nVidia, but a unified API on top - OpenGL 3.0 (upcoming) and the other OpenML, OpenVG, and so on for accelerating graphics.

    The onus on each major console developer would be to produce consoles which fit this format, and they can add and subtract features as they see fit. A differentiator may be the media format for the console - after all, you need some unique features in order to keep the things marketable. If the PS3, XBox and Wii all run a PPC and all have OpenGL-capable graphics chips, isn't the only difference here the media capability - DVD, Blu-Ray, and Gamecube/Matsushita discs? The game development community could then concentrate on something really simple, and the same development costs as a PC game can be entertained. Not the difference between "my console is completely wired up differently and has a wildly different architecture" but the difference between "some people have dual-core chips and some people don't" and "I can use Vertex Shader 3.0 but some people only have Vertex Shader 2.0".

    The same game works, but people get to keep their platform loyalty, perhaps buying a Wii-classed console for the kids (so they can play lower graphics-quality games on 14" analog TVs with mono speakers) while the parents have a PS3 downstairs (on the main 42" digital HD plasma TV with the 7.1 THX sound system). The media format matters less if games move into the downloads territory - after all, a game like Half-Life 2 can be played when only 60% of it is on your hard disk (even less, but I think Steam is overzealous). You don't need to download the later levels until you get close to them, after all. Downloading a 7GB file set on an average cable connection would only take a few days anyway..

    How about this; you buy a games console. You buy games as "predownload kits" and go online to authorize playing, locked to the console as most XBox Live accounts and Wii Friend Codes etc are now. The DVD is just so you can start playing right away, but the main executable, maybe some first-level data files and obvious extra add-ons are installed as you authorize to stop people pirating games. After all, if you could not play the game without a code key and the special executable and data files and unlock code, piracy is moot; copying game DVDs becomes a useful strategy to get the games to your friends, rather than stealing.

    1. Re:Certainly possible... by faedle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Point of order:

      The original Game Boy didn't use the 6502 processor, it used the Sharp x80 processor.. sort-of a Z80 without the coolness factor of the bazillion registers the Zilog chip had, while still having a lot of the useful instructions Zilog added to the i8080 instruction set.

    2. Re:Certainly possible... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Gameboy has always run ARM (since moving away from the 6502 in the Gameboy Advance) What 6502? Game Boy and Game Boy Color used a Sharp CPU based loosely on Intel 8080 and Zilog Z80. The NES and Super NES used the 6502 architecture.

      If the PS3, XBox and Wii all run a PPC and all have OpenGL-capable graphics chips, isn't the only difference here the media capability - DVD, Blu-Ray, and Gamecube/Matsushita discs? That, and the number of threads they can run without bringing the frame rate way down, and the number of textures they can have in memory without bringing the frame rate way down, and the supported OpenGL extensions, and the input, and the audio, and the operating system calls (the console APIs certainly aren't POSIX), and the digital signature requirements, etc.

      you buy a games console. You buy games as "predownload kits" and go online to authorize playing Not everybody can afford a 4-year commitment to high-speed Internet access in addition to a game console. Will the online activation be compatible with bargain-basement dial-up providers such as NetZero/Juno?
    3. Re:Certainly possible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong unfortunately.

      The reason console games work, and PC games historically don't, is that the developers do not need to anticipate that the player of the PC game has certain hardware and performance.

      With a PC, a -smart- user can just replace the aging component if they want to play the new game, but most users are idiots and just buy name brand garbage that has onboard video comparable with a 8 year old computer.

      Note how a new graphics card comes out every 6 months and costs the same as a wii. Try telling average Joe in the states that brand new game isn't gonna cut it on that console that's 6 months old.

      Not to mention the reliance on how many buttons the controllers have. we have usb HID, why aren't we using it on the THREE consoles that have usb ports? They all switched to a varient on bluetooth.

      This is why a unified open platform will not happen, the closest we will get is standardization on prefabricated parts, eg, nintendo, microsoft, and sony all using powerPC with ATI graphics chips, and it would benefit IBM the most since they produce the chips used.

      What would make logical sense however is the switch to internet-only games, that would get rid of the disc capacity issue. Download each -level- while playing the previous.

      Also each console should support the ISP's IPTV service with PVR support therefor getting rid of the TV's STB. Hell I can do this with TelusTV right now on the PS3 running Linux(with VLC.) Now if only the console came with a native version of VLC we'd be in business. The Xbox360 requires a PC to capture and transcode from a broadcast source. The best you get with the Wii is MJPEG on the SD card or the flash player 7 in the internet channel. Keep in mind that the Wii doesn't play DVD's either.

      If we want to reduce the number of living room boxes, each new generation of console should support backwards compatibility with ALL the previous consoles, therefor instead of three simultaneous but incompatible consoles, each manufacturer can release a progressively better console and other third parties can try if they purchase the rights to be backwards compatible. This way, at least, people can remain loyal to whatever brand they want and not have two to four additional boxes in their living room. It's much easier to justify one 500 box every 3 years instead of 3 300-700$ boxes every 3 years. Hell, we semi-do this right now with re-releases. If we went internet only, it's a tough sell to abandon your previous game library. The concept of 'nintendo channel' could work, and in fact:

      My idea only differs from your idea in that I'm only advocating backwards compatibility of previous consoles in all consoles. It doesn't solve EA's problem, but it doesn't force you to re-buy your entire game library with every new console either (which is what happens with different media.) It would also partially solve the piracy problem, by removing the issue of regions and modchips. You can't pirate what you don't have.

    4. Re:Certainly possible... by NekoXP · · Score: 1

      Oops. I got it mixed up with the NES.. and SNES for that matter. Well, keeping your systems the same chip makes sense, up to a point (the N64 was MIPS - same as Playstation, I think that helped some development like the port of Wipeout 2097 etc.)

    5. Re:Certainly possible... by NekoXP · · Score: 1

      Well, Bluetooth has a HID specification too, but you can be damn sure they don't use it (Wii remote is a special protocol, XBox controllers require "special" Windows drivers too). USB HID causes problems when you can't predict where the buttons will be.. it means everyone needs to configure their game before they play it (god forbid if they prefer a joystick to a gamepad and you need two analogs...)

      Certain things you just can't standardise on :)

      Microsoft have the right idea by locking XBox 360 peripherals into a kind of quality-control program. Nintendo have the right idea by letting people use the I2C port to add new controllers, but keeping an officially Nintendo-sanctioned Wii remote as the only reasonable controller-controller on the market. That helps a lot. But since they all use USB, or Bluetooth, why can't you share them?

      The same way every Wii owner has to plumb out to buy a remote AND a nunchuck AND a bloody Classic controller (and probably soon some other f**king mindless variant) to get anything done, having a set of controllers different for different batches of games would probably just be a harsh reality of a standardised system.

      But, most of the things you mentioned are abstracted by things like OpenGL, TCP/IP, and filesystems.

      Shaders are for the most part encapsulated by a compiler and a standard language; you can use any OpenGL shader on any OpenGL card, and the compiler built in to the OpenGL driver handles it (and optimizes it). OpenGL extensions are here nor there; this is a Windows problem in that it only exposes OpenGL 1.1 procedure calls and not the 15 years of development and updates it's had since, it is not so much an OpenGL 2.x or OpenGL 3.0 problem (which barely has any extensions, or conceives a practically entirely unique API respectively).

      Why would you need to be "compatible" with dialup? Surely most people have internet, and they have it with.. wow, this standard protocol they invented in the early 1960's. Downloading a couple of files on dialup is not a problem - 8k/s, well, I download torrents at that speed sometimes and if they're a few megabytes, it doesn't take too long to get there (certainly, why not put the code in before dinner, let the system leech off the game DVD and download the necessary files for AFTER dinner?)

      As for which media it supports, who cares what media you buy - it may well be console-specific but contain much the same files, even files for every console if they are only very slightly different. If a console supports reading DVD media (the Wii does! It just hasn't got any DVD player *software*) then that's fine. Hell, all of them do that.

      As for multithreading and chip differences, this is handled by the software; and usually, the libaries capable of interfacing a console to it's weird and wacky hardware are provided by the console makers (Nintendo, Sony) as binary blobs anyway. You don't think they are hammering the RSX at a register level from documentation, do you? Nintendo and Sony also provide OpenGL, OpenVG and suchlike, and a bunch of audio APIs, and the controller APIs (Wii's remote software is a binary blob too - as is the SD card/internal flash memory interface, as it was on Gamecube).

      What they should do is standardise on the level of support for these APIs - and their exposed features. A standard game console operating system (Microsoft would love it to be Windows XP Embedded, I bet) with standard APIs, chips which do much the same things, would work. Why can't you have a set of games which all run roughly the same (maybe some extra shine on some consoles than others)?

      What's the difference between running a game in 720x480 on a Wii, and running it in 720x480 on an XBox 360? Well, usually the XBox game can run in 1280x720 and 1900x1080 too! Does it get any new features from running at a higher resolution? Does Halo 3 look all the more awesome with higher resolution textures when you run it in HD? No. It uses the same textures, but it has more pixels and sharper

    6. Re:Certainly possible... by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      Well, Bluetooth has a HID specification too, but you can be damn sure they don't use it (Wii remote is a special protocol, XBox controllers require "special" Windows drivers too).


      The Wiimote uses Bluetooth HID. It's just that they layer their own higher-level protocol on top of a nondescriptive HID report descriptor. However, all the lower level stuff is the same, and the Wiimote is a legal HID device - it's just that no host knows what to do with its data without some extra drivers. Try it for yourself: press 1+2 on the Wiimote and scan for devices with your computer. The Wiimote will register in any BT host as a HID compatible game controller.

      Xbox 360 controllers use a proprietary wireless protocol. Xbox (1) controllers (and USB 360 controllers) are similar to the Wiimote in that they use the USB HID protocol, but with no descriptor (and a few extra vendor-specific commands). PS3 pads are crippled Bluetooth devices IIRC.

  21. So EA's going to port their games to Linux? by r_jensen11 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah right. EA doesn't care about open platforms. All they care about is the latter part of the thread's subject: single console.

    Linux has been available for a long time, large games (e.g. Unreal, Doom, Wolfenstein, formerly America's Army) have been available for it for quite some time. And yet they havn't ported shit over.

    1. Re:So EA's going to port their games to Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Yeah right. EA doesn't care about open platforms."

      Sort of. They would like to be able to publish games without paying anyone else a licencing fee, though.

  22. What about innovation? by diamondmagic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First of all, I assume the Personal Computer does not count, because a console only has one hardware configuration (but that is what the operating system is for). The standardized game console they talk about wouldn't turn out to be too different then the PC, I can imagine, not evolving much except in minimum requirements.
    Innovative features would go away. I shouldn't have to cite examples, but I know Nintendo has been on the innovative path, you would have never seen a pointer in a game controller or a touch screen on a portable, it would be the standard controller and buttons galore, not much else.

    Having multiple consoles allows us the power of choice. Standards do not drive the console industry, competition does.

    1. Re:What about innovation? by freezingweasel · · Score: 1

      > but I know Nintendo has been on the innovative path, you would have never seen a pointer in a game controller or a touch screen on a portable, it would be the standard controller and buttons galore, not much else.

      > Having multiple consoles allows us the power of choice. Standards do not drive the console industry, competition does.

      That may not be the best argument for... several DS games have left me wishing I could use the full set of controls over the stylus. The stylus is a perfect fit for some games, but Nintendo doesn't seem to realize which games they are and doesn't always offer a choice of normal controls only. (The touch screen is a 50% annoyance, the microphone I've yet to find a good use for. I haven't played the lawyer game yet, but so far EVERY time I've seen the mic used, it's been a pain)

    2. Re:What about innovation? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      you would have never seen a pointer in a game controller or a touch screen on a portable, it would be the standard controller and buttons galore, not much else.

      You know you don't need a completely separate console for that, right? The only reason the Wiimote needs a Wii is because Nintendo hasn't licensed it for the PC, Xbox 360, or PS3.

      The PS2 has the EyeToy, the SNES had the Lightgun -- all by basically letting people develop accessories. Why should a standard console be any different?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  23. One easy console to work on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Isn't a single, easy to develop for console exactly what the XBox was created to be?

    Why suffer through a train wreck like the PS3, when you have Microsoft designing their consoles around what developers are asking for?

    1. Re:One easy console to work on? by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      If you think microsoft dominating the games industry is good for anyone you are either stupid or stupid and incredibly foolish.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    2. Re:One easy console to work on? by joystickgenie · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you missed the word open. Xbox is hardly a open platform.

    3. Re:One easy console to work on? by pasamio · · Score: 1

      The XBox was the extension of DirectX, Microsoft's attempt to lock development into one platform from Microsoft. Moving to stuff like OpenAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL) and OpenGL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL) is what I think EA is hinting at given that OpenGL support is available for every major platform. In fact I would suggest that Xbox is the last thing that developers are asking for given its the only one supporting DirectX with Windows. Providing for the missing open layers (e.g. the network ones) would be enough to make it one platform except for Windows/XBox. Though given that MS is working hard to destroy OpenGL I don't give much hope that they will do it. Though if you look at the members of the group you see players for every major platform except for Microsoft, and given that the XBox uses ATI/AMD GPU's the entire hardware graphics side of the gaming industry is interested in OpenGL.

      --
      I always wondered where this setting was...
    4. Re:One easy console to work on? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have MS dominating than Sony or Nintendo. At least MS doesn't treat the U.S. and Europe like complete shit.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:One easy console to work on? by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Actually they do, you just like the taste of their shit better than Nintendo's and Sony.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
  24. Gee, I wonder why? by LordZardoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A common platform for console games really only benefits companies the size of EA, and to a lesser extent, 3rd party multi platform publishers of any size. It would cut down on development costs.

    However, there is no way that this will happen, at least not voluntarily. Doing this would effectively kill all but one of the platform manufacturers. Nintendo is not likely to do this. Too much history, and institutional pride. Also, even when they do not excel or lead the market, they are always profitable. Why share the golden goose?

    Sony would probably not go for this either, despite the current difficulties with the PS3. The last time they tried to collaborate with another console manufacturer, they got burned by Nintendo. And they did do pretty damn good with the PS1 and PS2. And finally, assuming they do not self destruct from bleeding money and need to spin off or shutter their game development, they are playing for the long term. The PS3 is a good strategy to push Bluray along, and I have no doubt that it will work out for that if nothing else.

    Microsoft may go for this. They are primarily a software house. If EA's plan did come about, I would bet that the side that works with Microsoft would dominate. Game developers just love their development tools. Having worked with Wii, Xbox360, and PS3 dev hardware, I can say that Microsoft's dev gear is the best.

    Still, I just do not see this happening. Unless EA decides to boot strap the damn thing into existence, it will just not happen.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:Gee, I wonder why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Microsoft may go for this. They are primarily a software house. If EA's plan did come about,
      > I would bet that the side that works with Microsoft would dominate. Game developers just love
      > their development tools. Having worked with Wii, Xbox360, and PS3 dev hardware, I can say that
      > Microsoft's dev gear is the best.

      Except Visual Studio is a Piece of Shit (seriously you don't need all the hidden features all over the place). This is comming from sone who started programming back in the day of Think C on the Mac and then on to Symantic C and then to Codewarrior. I really wished SN/Sony would not have gone the Visual Studio integration route with the PS3 and bought a real company to do their IDE.

    2. Re:Gee, I wonder why? by freezingweasel · · Score: 1

      > Unless EA decides to boot strap the damn thing into existence, it will just not happen., it will just not happen.

      If EA decides to boot strap the damn thing into existence, we'll have 4 consoles competing instead of 3.

    3. Re:Gee, I wonder why? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      And without the damn EA sports games, the Xbox will die. ... Go EA!

  25. Where are big monitors for 4 players on one PC? by tepples · · Score: 1

    OK, so there's a certain amount of variation in the hardware configuration. :) But there is one tendency in the hardware configuration of Windows PCs: the median monitor size is way too small to comfortably fit me, the 8-year-old, and the two friends he has over. Most people don't think to connect their Windows PC to a television monitor.
  26. It doesn't turn out to be that useful by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    From the point of view of development cost, the value of a standard platform is proportional to how long it remains the standard to develop for. On the other hand, from a hard-core gamer's perspective, the value is inversely proportional to its longevity since no significant hardware advances will occur until a new platform is developed.

  27. bad idea by Bizzeh · · Score: 1

    a single open platform will kill the technology. competition is the reason technology advances. if there is no need to better the other guy, there is no need to rush to create better technology than them.

    1. Re:bad idea by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 1

      Precisely. Where's the incentive to squeak out more features in console X if they're just going to show up in console Y in six months (or less)?

      EA wants to eliminate competition and the huge black eye that they got programming for the PS3 (others don't have this problem, EA... complacency perhaps?) Bah... EA's not the same as it was back in the old days... it's an IP hoarding monster that spews out crappy games, or buys good ones and screws them up to the point they are exactly like the original crappy IP they put out themselves. :)

      Since EA wants to be the monopoly game maker, they want a platform that they can monopolize as well with fewer talented people and more drones. They want to eliminate competition... brazen of them to veil it in the cloak of "open standards". Horseshit... that's marketroid speak for "screw the little guys"

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    2. Re:bad idea by tepples · · Score: 1

      a single open platform will kill the technology. competition is the reason technology advances. if there is no need to better the other guy, there is no need to rush to create better technology than them. Then why did we stick with VHS for so long, and then DVD for so long? Those were movie platforms that were reasonable and non-discriminatory to even the smallest self-publishing movie studios. The three major console makers at any given time, on the other hand, didn't care about smaller developers at all.
  28. TV output? by tepples · · Score: 1

    The standardized game console they talk about wouldn't turn out to be too different then the PC, I can imagine, not evolving much except in minimum requirements. For one thing, unlike a mini- or mid-tower PC, a standard console would encourage end users to connect it to a screen larger than the typical 17 to 20 inch computer monitor, such as the family room TV. Sure, I can plug four USB gamepads into a hub, but I can't fit four people around a 17 inch monitor.
  29. Not true by tkrotchko · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I read in a xbox hacking book that the Sega Dreamcast died when they could pirate games for that system"

    No, not really. The Dreamcast died when Sega was in it's last days as a hardware vendor. They could or would not properly advertise or support the system. Plus, once the rumors were out that the Dreamcast was dead, it was for all practical purposes dead. Rumors are like that in the gaming industry. Pirating was not a large phenomenon until after it was pretty clear the Dreamcast was dead.

    In my opinion, the Dreamcast began to die the day that Sony ran it's successful campaign that convinced people the PS2 was the future of gaming not the Dreamcast. Sega did nothing to counter that feeling, either, because after the wildly successful 9/9/99 launch, they basically did very little to push the console.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:Not true by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "No, not really. The Dreamcast died when Sega was in it's last days as a hardware vendor. They could or would not properly advertise or support the system. "

      Close. Sega was in financial trouble. In order to really see profit from the DC, they needed to sell another 10 million units. Unfortunately, they didn't have anywhere close to amount of money they needed to actually build those 10 million systems. They were forced to give up.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Not true by blueZhift · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, EA contributed greatly to the demise of the Dreamcast by refusing to support it with their sports titles. Sega was already fairly weak by that time, but this time the three console holders are all fairly strong. So it'll be somewhat harder for them to play king maker this time.

    3. Re:Not true by freezingweasel · · Score: 1

      Sega was killing itself for a while.

      While Sega certainly met the demand for their mascot (Sonic 1-3, Sonic and Knuckles and as many or more of the same on the Game Gear, disregarding kart racers and other spin-offs) early on, the Sega CD had one good Sonic game. The 32X was a disappointment all around. (Also the 1st game system that ever blue-screened on me, ironically playing a port of a PC game, Wolfenstein or Doom) The Saturn was a nice system, but had no proper Sonic games, just the Sonic Jam rerelease of previous games. The Dreamcast brought Sonic back in 2 games many love to hate (~ 50/50 here)

      Did you like Shining Force 1 and 2, and the one on the Game Gear? Sorry, afterwards the Shining series became action games. Did you like Phantasy Star? Sorry, it dropped off the face of the Earth. (For a while.)

      Nintendo dropped the ball as well, after Super Mario World 1 traditional Mario died for a while. Metroid was loved but in far too short supply. Zelda kicked butt and took names. Mega Man slowed for a while before hopping to Sony and kicking out a few more X games and letting the original series die.)

      Final Fantasy never graced Sega's systems, it could have moved a few units. It definately sold a few 360s. (FF11)

      I found a number of games on just about every Sega system that I loved (excepting the Master System (only 4-5) and 32X (1), but Sega wasn't good at having something they could point to and say "You know and love this, come back and get some more of it!".

      (Shining Force 3 epiosodes 2 and 3 being a no-show didn't help either)

      One cool thing about the Saturn, many of the discs had several of the games music tracks available to play on any normal CD player. I think the Sega CD did this too. Some Dreamcast games had goodies on the discs if you popped them into a PC. PSO was one.

    4. Re:Not true by masticina · · Score: 1

      Sega had already been through a few true console flogs. Things didn't all just work out for them! The Sega CD extension definitely didn't do much good and well the 32x extension! Lets not go there!

      Bad choices, a market that was going faster then sega could run with and money troubles. Done with! Now they are a software company which isn't that huge but has a few reasonable franchises left. Yeah lets forget about sonic to!

      --
      Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
    5. Re:Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine was a game tester for Sega when they folded. I don't know how true this is, but this is the story he told me.

      One day a high up from the PS2 dev team came over to talk to his buddy at SEGA, he came into the office, put a PS2 and a controller up on his desk and hooked it up. The SEGA boss basically blown away by the look/feel of the PS2 knew it was the end for the Dreamcast and started shutting things down shortly after.

  30. It's called the PC... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    ... jesus christ. What EA should maybe do is make deals with PC companies and create a PC platform specifically for games, and share the costs of hardware development and deployment all around... good luck on that though!

  31. Middleware by ShakaUVM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't need one console. You need one target platform. You have have 5 different consoles, or 50, and still write to a single common platform. It's called middleware. The middleware vendor figures out all the idiosynchracies of the different consoles, and then writes an API which sits above it. The game developer (EA or whoever) pays a license to the middleware developer, and then writes to the middleare API, and things more or less work like magic on all the different consoles. All you have to do to 'port' it to a new console, or the PC, is really deal with the input issues. A Wii is not the same as an XBox360, but when a friend of mine did the port of "Cars" to the Wii, it was really just a matter of revising the input routines, and some other tweaking.

    1. Re:Middleware by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 1

      But then you end up writing to the lowest common denominator. That's not good.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    2. Re:Middleware by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is great if you are the lowest common denominator.
      You have the advantage. Why pay more to play the same game. One big reason why the PS3 isn't doing all that well.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Middleware by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      The only effective difference between your scheme and a standard hardware platform would be that the former would have lower performance. If ultimatly everybody is limited to the same set of capabilities, there's no value of having a middle layer written by a "middle-man".

      If a generic API worked worked perfectly (and in practice, they seldom do) it would be purely a legacy strategy that allowed game developers to write games that target "worst of breed" in each functional category out of a collection of target consoles. Often the games would be less capable than those that the weakest single hardware console could support.

    4. Re:Middleware by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      If ultimatly everybody is limited to the same set of capabilities, there's no value of having a middle layer written by a "middle-man".

      There is a value. It's the same reason we use DirectX or OpenGL -- an API hides away the dirty details of a specific hardware platform. If they can optimize the middleware (which they might be able to do a better job than you, depending), then there's no real penalty to it.

      it would be purely a legacy strategy that allowed game developers to write games that target "worst of breed"

      GTA: Vice City, Tony Hawk Underground, Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows were all written to different platforms by using middleware. It's hardly a controversial topic. Middleware is very, very common.

    5. Re:Middleware by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      But then you end up writing to the lowest common denominator. That's not good.

      Have you ever played a PC game? There's graphics detail options that you can turn up or down. Let's say you're writing Vice City using middleware (which it was). You know the capability of the Xbox is X, the PS2 is Y, and the PC is all over the place. You set LOD settings, view distance, texture detail settings, etc., that best match X and Y, and you give the players the options to set their own on the PC.

      There's still platform differences, don't get me wrong, but when you've got a game that runs on middleware already running on the PS3 and PC, adding the Xbox360 is about a thousand times easier than writing the whole game from scratch on the Xbox, if the middleware platform supports the Xbox360.

      That's the advantage of being able to write code to higher level APIs.

      Sure, you might not be able to do something like Okami (which heavy relied on deep magic on the PS2's EE to get it to work), but it has worked for a LOT of games.

    6. Re:Middleware by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      When console games get a frustrating to tweak as PC games, I quit. I really appreciate being able to buy the latest, greatest, Hi Def game and have it run exactly as intended. That would be a shame to give up for the sake of making things easier on game publishers/developers.

      If the middleware could automatically detect and enable features, and scaled from low end hardware to high end hardware nicely, it might work.

    7. Re:Middleware by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      As a real world example of why this is a bad idea: FFXI. Its cross platform nature (PS2, 360, PC) means it is stuck with the limitations of PS2 hardware. This has far reaching effects, mostly with the graphic capabilities but also many issues with memory constraints.

    8. Re:Middleware by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm not saying it's a good idea, necessarily. Oblivion drove me crazy with its sized-for-a-TV UI.

      But that was just a case of the developer not taking the time necessary to do platform specific interfaces correct, which are really the only thing you need to do when writing to different platforms.

      Nothing drives me more insane than when they try to map a console controller directly to mouse and keyboard.

    9. Re:Middleware by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "There is a value. It's the same reason we use DirectX or OpenGL -- an API hides away the dirty details of a specific hardware platform."

      If there is only a single hardware platform there is no need to hide anything.

      "If they can optimize the middleware (which they might be able to do a better job than you, depending), then there's no real penalty to it."

      Perhaps you don't fully understand the idea of optimization. Given the same skill set and effort, a custom solution is always going to be superior to a general one. If the general solution is also generic, the difference is just that much greater. We can debate how much the difference matters, but they will always be a trade-off involved.

      "GTA: Vice City, Tony Hawk Underground, Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows were all written to different platforms by using middleware. It's hardly a controversial topic. Middleware is very, very common."

      I'm not suggesting that middleware is controversial or uncommon, only that it is sub-optimal. The greater the number of targets and the longer the standard exists, the more sub-optimal it will be relative to creating new hardware platforms with advanced capabilities.

  32. It will happen... by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It will happen, just not soon (unless EA dumps a serious amount of money into it).

    Not a single hardware platform, but a standard open format that games can be written in. Similar to how you can view the same web-pages on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, XBox, etc.

    --
    Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    1. Re:It will happen... by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it won't. While there is a huge incentive for game makers to have just 1 format, there is absolutely no incentive for game system manufacturers to allow that. All of the money that console makers earn is from licensing games and that sort of things, most of the time they lose money on each console.

      If they were to start making money on the hardware, it could happen, but it is still extremely unlikely as the amount of money to be made on a single console is just not big enough to justify the change.

      Basically, this is just EA's wet dream, the ability to make all of the money and leave the hardware manufacturers completely out in the cold.

    2. Re:It will happen... by mikael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They should learn from the experience of MSX - the universal game console architecture. The idea was basically that everyone would share the same basic hardware architecture, but it could be extendible in terms of custom controllers and peripherals. And that's where everything went wrong - some vendors chose to have that bit more memory in their consoles that others. Some chose to support light guns, others didn't.

      Each company assumed that all the other companies would conform to the basic architecture for compatibility with their console, but that their added features would make their console, the one console system that the consumers would buy. Well, of course, with that level of incompatibility, the market just disintegrated.

      The best we could hope for, would be standard programming API's, and perhaps even standard specifications for the provision and naming of assembly level vector/matrix programming instructions. Looking at the DirectX/OpenGL revision history, some companies couldn't even agree on which vector arithmetic operations to support.

      Unfortunately, it is obvious that Microsoft isn't going to give up on DirectX, and that other companies aren't going to give up on OpenGL or the embedded system version of it. But everyone would have to agree on the same functions for using DMA for streaming, and all of that is going to vary according to how the console systems are designed.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    3. Re:It will happen... by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1

      The system manufactures will fight this for as long as they can but, in the end, I think a standard format will have to win out. I don't see this happening in the next 5 years. Maybe not even 20. But it will happen.

      The system manufactures' position is becoming increasingly artificial. The hardware is using more "off-the-shelf" parts than custom chips. Even with the millions Sony dumped into R&D, its hard to see where the PS3 is much better than the XBox360; and neither look that much better than a high-end Windows machine.

      So the system manufactures have turned to buying exclusive rights to games. It might work in the short run, but this can not last forever. The next step is lawsuits, which is where this will probably all end up before in collapses in on itself.

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    4. Re:It will happen... by HAKdragon · · Score: 1
      It will happen, just not soon (unless EA dumps a serious amount of money into it).

      Sadly, I can see it now.

      EA presents the Madden box! Plays the best NFL football video game ever made, all for the low cost of $399*. Coming this Holiday season!

      *Plus annual subscription cost of $60
      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
    5. Re:It will happen... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      The system manufactures' position is becoming increasingly artificial. The hardware is using more "off-the-shelf" parts than custom chips. Even with the millions Sony dumped into R&D, its hard to see where the PS3 is much better than the XBox360; and neither look that much better than a high-end Windows machine.

      I could be wrong, but we do already have those things, they're called computers. And they don't seem to have killed off the console platform.

      Don't get me wrong, in most respects I would love to be proven wrong on this one, I just don't think that the console manufacturers are ever going to go along with this. Perhaps the game makers will get together and just make their own system, but that is about the only way that I can imagine that happening. Most of the time systems aren't even created with the idea that somebody is going to have to actually code games for them.

      I suppose a bunch of open source fanatics could probably get together with some hardcore hardware people and put something together that is a hobbyist platform for the masses, I just don't think that is likely any time soon.
    6. Re:It will happen... by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1

      I don't think the console manufactures will go along with this either. Why would they (other than Microsoft who has two horses in this race)? But I don't think they can fight it forever.

      There has been a lot of issues with PC gaming in the past that kept it from beating consoles (lack of standards, high cost of entry, easy of use, etc.), but most of these are becoming less of an issue.

      It use to be that console systems had a huge technical advantage over home PCs when it came to games (e.g. the N64 vs. Windows95). Like I said in my parent post, this is no longer the case. And EA already releases most (all?) of its games for the PC as well as console.

      When HP and Dell can release a home PC with better graphics than the top console, with the same easy-of-use, and at the same (or less) price, developers will start developing for that. And the console manufactures will really start to worry. ;)

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    7. Re:It will happen... by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      OK, standard gaming APIs. SDL 1.4 (or whatever the latest is) with OpenGL 2.0 support.

      Those already run on every system under the sun.

  33. Re:We adyalre have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    spaceMeat? Some of us live in lelitt anendi erseunivs you nsitinseive clod!

  34. What's in it for the gamer? by boyermike · · Score: 0

    I would expect that any common platform would be an evolution toward a common denominator or least common denominator. The opportunity to select a platform based upon performance characteristics or specialized capabilities would me moot. (Wii controllers, HD support, # of processors) Of course, I am sure (giggle) that EA would pass some of the development savings onto consumers! Perhaps $59.95 games would now retail for $58.49. Let the market choose how many and how differentiated the available platforms should be.

  35. Dear EA, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's called the PC.

    Good talk.

  36. No, it doesn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    With your 1080p on a 56" TV, each pixel is about the size of a baseball, and if it's a normal TV your frame rate is a truly pukeworthy 30 FPS no matter what the game may be doing. From six feet away your field of view is what, about 30-40 degrees? Normal human vision is capable of about 120.

    A 24-inch 1080p monitor 18 inches away looks reasonably decent and starts to give you a little peripheral vision. It also does 100-120 Hz.

    Neither of these come close to the printed page at 1200 DPI and no flicker at all, of course.

    What you have is a Bubba-impressing burglar-magnet.

  37. Phantom by Amphetam1ne · · Score: 0

    EA should feel welcome to take it's anual franchise games and develop them on the phantom. I'll be over here, playing Tabula Rasa, Bioshock, Portal, etc.

    At the end of the day, what EA wants is unimportant compared to what the gamers want. You will never reach a wide audience with a "1 size fits all" console, because 1 size never fits all.

    Wii is great for the family market and seems to be helping to bring wives and girlfriends into the gaming lifestyle in a way that's never been seen before.

    Xbox 360 and Live are doing exactly what they were made to do.

    PC is still the platform of choice for the hardcore shooter, stratergy and MMO market.

    The PS3 is doing ummm... Somthing... Oh yeah, virtual house decoration and streaming media to their handheld, for those people that want a "gaming lifestyle" without the actual games part.

    If you wanted to try and capture all of the above then your product would most likely be £1000 per unit over cost, and 3 years behind schedual.

    --
    I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
    1. Re:Phantom by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      Well, if they adopt and code for the Phantom, the only choice for a first release would be Duke Nukem: Forever.

    2. Re:Phantom by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      You will never reach a wide audience with a "1 size fits all" console, because 1 size never fits all.

      Tell that to the people using the PC, for anything other than gaming. The biggest problem now is software -- one OS doesn't fit all -- but one hardware platform certainly does.

      And that "one OS doesn't fit all" is largely a result of existing OSes not cooperating on a standard, the way the hardware manufacturers do.

      However, most of your reasons are pure bullshit.

      Wii has the Wiimote -- why shouldn't that be able to plug into any console? Or into a PC?

      PC is for the hardcore -- bullshit. I'd say people who make six figures winning Halo tourneys are pretty hardcore.

      Xbox is doing what it was made to do -- which is what, exactly?

      And why should the PS3 be different than the PC, exactly? The only real advantage here is price and exclusivity, which are, again, bullshit reasons.

      There is no technical reason why this can't happen. All the reasons are bullshit financial/business reasons.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:Phantom by Amphetam1ne · · Score: 0

      Other consoles could have the Wiimote, but they still wouldn't have Nintendo's attitude towards games and would probably not market them in the same way that Nintendo have. It's not just about the hardware or the software, but about the way that they've been put together in a cohesive package and

      I never said that the PC was *only* for the hardcore. I said it was the platform of choice for the hardcore Shooter, Stratergy and MMO markets. Although shooters exist on consoles, there is no mod/mapping scene due to this type of content being a) not quality checked, b) a possible source of security exploits and c) somthing that might stop you from buying the manufacturer's add-on content. Pro gamers are not somthing that I'm giving consideration to here.

      What the 360 is doing is taking the Xbox brand to the next level by providing a reasonably priced platform that's easy to develop for and makes it very easy for the user to get into online gaming and content. Live is a well thought out and cohesive experience, which generaly "Just works". This was somthing that was required to get more people into online gaming. However, to renforce my earlier point the hardcore shooter market will want private clan servers and modifications. This is somthing that you can't get with Live.

      --
      I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
    4. Re:Phantom by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Other consoles could have the Wiimote, but they still wouldn't have Nintendo's attitude towards games and would probably not market them in the same way that Nintendo have. It's not just about the hardware or the software, but about the way that they've been put together in a cohesive package and

      Hmm... and apparently you can't finish that thought.

      Let me finish it for you: Anyone can do a "cohesive package", on any platform, open or not. Steam, on the PC, is a nice, one-stop, "just works" platform for gaming, like Xbox Live -- but you can do PC gaming without Steam, and you can do other things with your PC.

      What I don't like is that consoles are multiple, closed platforms, each controlled by a monopoly. Nintendo makes good games, sure, but because they control the Wii, they get to decide whether, for instance, it supports high-def. They can make more specialized hardware inside the box, too, to make it cheaper, but if I'm willing to buy $1000 worth of computer on which to play games, I still won't be able to use it to make Wii games look any better.

      Right now, for a developer to support every platform out there is somewhat difficult. But for a gamer to be able to play any game out there is downright impossible. You justify it by implying that each console comes with an Experience (TM), and that some people like some experiences, and other people like others. Well, I like shooters, strategy, platform games, Zelda and the Wiimote, and fl0w. Why should I have to buy a $1k computer, a $200 console, a $400 console, and a $600 console, just to be able to play any game I want?

      Why can't I just buy a $1k console, and have that be the end of it for another five years?

      I said it was the platform of choice for the hardcore Shooter, Stratergy and MMO markets.

      You do know it's spelled "strategy", right?

      And no, it's not. Strategy and MMO, maybe. Shooter, well, maybe it's just me, but almost everyone I know who has played PC games has also played Halo, and I can't say the reverse is true.

      However, to renforce my earlier point the hardcore shooter market will want private clan servers and modifications. This is somthing that you can't get with Live.

      Mods, no. Private servers, yes, easily. Have you even tried?

      And why do "hardcore" n00bs with l33t mods get consideration, but not professional gamers?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    5. Re:Phantom by Amphetam1ne · · Score: 0

      I should probably use the preview button when posting at 3am.

      At the end of the day you don't have to buy all of the hardware and certainly not all at once. Last gen of consoles I bought the Cube 1st on day of release, then the Xbox 9 months after that when there was a good package offer on it and finally got a used PS2 around a year later when I wanted to catch up on the titles I'd missed (By which point prety much all the games for it were dirt cheap as well). The PC is a constant and just gets a hardware upgrade every 2-3 years for about £300-£400. This time around I got the Wii 1st (last Xmas), did the PC upgrade 2 weeks ago, Will grab a 360 for myself some point in the next 6 months and will get a PS3 when the price comes down a lot or when I can find a compelling reason to do so (RFoM is just not enough to buy a console for).

      Last thing I heared from MS about private servers on Live was that they were not going to release dedicated server software. Unless they've changed their stance then renting a clanserver is not an option.

      Pro Gamers don't get consideration because they're a tiny minority. There are more people that play games on mobile phones than there are pro gamers. Why do mods get consideration? Once there was a game called Half-Life, for this game there was a mod called Counter Strike. HL and HL2 servers are at the top of the list way ahead of any other game on the server listings and 90% of the servers are running CS 1.6 or CS:S http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/. User created mods are more important to the fps market than pro gamers. All of the current big engines on PC let me create my own content for them using a well documented and community supported suite of tools. Where as players who were caught by MS playing custom Halo 2 maps against their friends over live were banned.

      --
      I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
    6. Re:Phantom by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      At the end of the day you don't have to buy all of the hardware and certainly not all at once.

      And that makes having to buy redundant hardware right?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    7. Re:Phantom by Amphetam1ne · · Score: 1

      Well, there's no redundancy between PC and console for a start. I don't want to sit on the sofa with a keyboard accross my knees for 4 hours playing Tabula Rasa. Likewise I don't want to try and get 4 people round a 19" monitor to play Wii. TBH, I like having a collection of consoles. I can lend them to friends or move them into another room for other family members to play on.

      --
      I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
    8. Re:Phantom by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Well, there's no redundancy between PC and console for a start.

      While one of our more interesting new business models depends on people thinking this way, that's simply a choice you (and game developers) have made.

      I don't want to sit on the sofa with a keyboard accross my knees for 4 hours playing Tabula Rasa.

      Xbox controllers can plug into a computer, with an adapter. I believe 360 controllers can use USB cables. I imagine PS3 controllers can pretty easily now, too -- I know those are USB.

      In other words, you're making a (wrong, stupid) assumption that a keyboard is the only interface to a computer. The only reason this assumption has any validity is because everyone agrees on it -- an "emperor's new clothes" situation. Many PC games support a joystick, and you can buy many controllers to plug into a PC, and you can buy PCs (or video cards) with TV out (even HDMI)...

      Likewise I don't want to try and get 4 people round a 19" monitor to play Wii.

      Now I know you haven't thought this through.

      At work, I recently got a TV for my desk. It has an HDMI port on the back (for which you can get a DVI->HDMI adapter), as well as straight VGA. Basically, with no fuss at all, you can plug a computer into it. Most new TVs will be the same.

      Similarly, at home, my monitor has component video inputs. I could, in fact, plug a Wii into my 20" monitor if I really wanted to.

      The only difference between a TV and a monitor anymore is that TVs can get away with overscan, which is cheap-ass bullshit to begin with.

      Now, I can see there being redundancy if we're talking about more than one person -- for example, I could use the PC while you use the console. So there is some value to having a collection of consoles -- but why must they all be different, mutually-incompatible consoles (and computers)?

      In other words, why can't you have the computer at a desk, one computer at each TV, etc? That way, you don't have the issue of everyone wanting to play the same game, or even two different games that you only have for one console. (If you say "but they could take turns", you've negated the advantage of having multiple consoles. If you say "but they could play a different game", that's yet another artificial inconvenience.)

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  38. limits by spykemail · · Score: 1

    If this one "open" platform is controlled by Sony, Micro$oft, Nintendo, etc or any organization one of them can monopolize... no thanks.

  39. Platform != Console by nickthecook · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who thinks they may be talking about a software platform, like a Universal SDK, rather than a single console?

    A Platform is anything that your code runs on. Yes, the PC is a platform, for Windows and linux (among other things). Windows is, in turn, a platform for applications. A JVM is an application whose platform is some OS that is itself a platform for Java applications.

    If there were some SDK which could, for example, introduce the concept of a "job" that managed some aspect of a game, like AI or audio, the libraries for the PS3 could dispatch that job to a SPE, while the same application code on the Xbox360 could create just another thread running on one of the PPCs. While on the Wii, the library would return null because there wasn't enough hardware resources to handle another job. I kid.

    But seriously, "Platform" does not necessarily mean "hardware".

  40. Yea-hah, baby by Tarlus · · Score: 1

    And I'm still calling for a gold-plated toilet, but that just ain't in the cards.

    --
    /* No Comment */
  41. Alright, the one console for all.... by Sasquatch6 · · Score: 1
    Coming to stores this holiday season, it's..... The WiiStationBox!

    More seriously though, a fixed platform isn't necessarily a bad thing. Someone has pointed out that competition drives technological advancement. I would contest that demand also drives it, and if the console owners don't demand more, the content developers *will*.

    As for the advantages of having a single platform, they remain the same as with the various consoles when seen individually: A console is a fixed set of hardware with a fixed software platform, for which a developer can create. That fixed platform allows the developers to be 100% sure that the end user can run the game. When the developers hit a wall in how much the console can do, they'll start clammering for the console developers to make a new, better model. The developers also reap a benefit in development costs, since they don't have to develop for multiple platforms.

    It's also consumer friendly. I would much rather have 1 console which runs everything, than have to buy 3 consoles just to ensure I get the full range of games being developed.

    As for the open-ness of the platform, we should strive to make sure it isn't *too* open. A game shouldn't modify the platform, and games being released at retail *should* be certified, but as long as the certification process is relatively cheap, I don't see that being an issue.

  42. One console by freezingweasel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If we had a single console, people would make "mistakes" putting it together, and you'd occasionally have to swap to another model to play a game not supported on yours. (Sega CD BIOS and Lunar for an example of what can happen) Given MS and Java, I wouldn't want them designing one of these.

    3 companies currently have a taste for the money involved with being the console provider. Which is going to willingly give it up? Whether your game rocks or tanks, you pay them for the privledge of releasing it for their console. With one console, prices would skyrocket. As it is, the greed of individual companies is somewhat countered by the fear of driving a hit to the competition. This is part of why Sony WON'T back down from Blu-Ray. Forgetting the players, owning the standard is fairly profitable. (And a powerful tool negotiation-wise, at least until it's so broken with DRM that consumers CAN'T use it and give up.)

    Also, would you want Nintendo owning it, perhaps making all the games for 6 months nearly unplayable from insisting they rely on the latest gimmick? Would you like Sony to control everything, blocking series you like (Working Designs, 2D games for a while when trying to push 3D), making nasty decisions (DRM breaking consoles, going ahead with the only plays on one console game-disc).

    If a system like this was incrementally upgraded like PCs, it would have the standard PC problem of inconsistent play between consoles. Remember popping DOS games on Win95-98 class PCs and watching the on-screen blur? Even little timing mismatches could be nasty for twitch games.

    Competition as some have noted above means companies will take more chances on off-beat games, always a plus. Staggered releases also force a bit more exposure for well-timed games. Most anything around the release of a new console will get tried. It may be crap, but an early game will get plenty of sales form parents who don't know better just because it's there, and their kid doesn't already have it. While it pushes crap, it also pushes potentially good games that might have gone unnoticed otherwise.

    We need multiple consoles to keep the console fanboys arguing. A generic system is quickly forgotten about. When's the last time you argued about which brand of TV or DVD player was best? HDTV type perhaps (lcd, plasma...) How about sound systems? Your friends might have a few compliments for your new system, but it's for most, too generic to pay much attention too. The debate over what's best keeps the buzz going, and the systems fresh in people's minds.

  43. Open letter to EA... by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

    Please stop bitching about missing the boat with the Wii, and work on the console. Thats what this announcement was really about. One platform wouldn't involve them watching Nintendo from the sidelines as they make money hand over fist one cheaper to develop games. Even after all of that, they are again trying to say the 360, or PS3 will dominate, yet the numbers sure as hell say otherwise.

    1. Re:Open letter to EA... by Shados · · Score: 1

      I agree. The tech (and thus, gaming) world is filled with self fulling prophecies, and for once, with the Wii, that wasn't completly the case... so EA is annoyed, and want to make their own prophecy. If they'd just shut up and develop GOOD games for the Wii, they could make a bundle too.

  44. dont scream too loud, it might exist already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least in the mobile market there is an open platform where everyone can participate

    http://www.gp2x.com/

  45. Not more M-rated first-person shooters by tepples · · Score: 1

    Linux has been available for a long time, large games (e.g. [M-rated first-person shooter], [M-rated first-person shooter], [M-rated first-person shooter], formerly [T-rated first-person shooter]) have been available for it for quite some time. And yet they havn't ported shit over. What other big-name commercial games are ported to Linux that aren't first-person shooters? Specifically, what big-name commercial games are ported to Linux that are rated E or E10+?
  46. One possibility by Mr_Blank · · Score: 1

    One way for EA's vision of one console to come to fruition would be for one console maker to establish a monopoly-esque dominant position. Once one console has 90%+ of the market, the other console makers have three choices: 1) Jump on the bandwagon to make a better version of that platform - thus establishing the standard 2) Join forces to make a united platform console that developers and consumers like better than the monopoly console 3) roll over and die.

    ... ok 4) They could sue - monopolies always put enough blood in the water to attract lawyers.

  47. Hybrid solution should be best.... by DrYak · · Score: 1

    ...or you can imagine a situation where console still contain very weird innovations, but still provide a simple common layer.

    Games are either manufacturer-exclusive and exploit all special bells-and-whistles (original new controller, clever usage of the steam coprocessors or whatever) or games target a special set of API and hardware capabilities that exist across all major player.

    The concept is somewhat similar to what currently happens with some developing toolset that let developers cross compile software for several consoles (id software's next engine which works on PC, XBox 360 and Playstation with one single toolset is such an example).

    The only difference is that current such tools are done by 3rd party, have to be acquired separately, and finally produce console-specific disc wich bundles game data with console-specific runtime layer, whereas EA's idea could be implemented if every console offered in it's firmware a "standarised environment".
    It could be something similar to what smart phones (and to some extend, the interactive capabilities of high definition disc players are doing) are already doing : most of them have different and specific hardware and OS platform (Symbian, Linux, Windows CE, Palm OS, ...) but all have Java MIDP which can be targeted as a standard unified platform, it doesn't provide all the niceties of native binary but is the kind of "one target to rule them all" that developer are looking for.

    In the console realm, an open-source stack based around Linux + SDL + OpenGL + some scripting language (like python's pygame. Or better Parrot Bytecode engine for more language flexibility) could provide such a unified target. Specially since some console already have linux (PS3, PS2) and other are getting it hacked in (Wii) or have already had (Xbox 360, DS, PSP (somewhat. An uCLinux proof-of-concept currently),XBox, GameCube, Dreamcast... )

    Actually, in contrary of what they think, allowing linux on the consoles could somewhat drive piracy down. Currently both pirated games, linux and homebrew all share the same need to circumvent the cryptographic locks that exist inside consoles (either to crack the games, or just to be able to run their own non-signed code). So efforts are shared among all those groups.
    If Linux gets an official support from companies, the linux community won't need modchips and such anymore, and in addition to commercial game developers looking for a standard platform, homebrewer will get a platform they can target too, without needing to circumvent cryptography. Thus less efforts go into the development of methods to circumvent the cryptographic lock around vendor specific platform for games.

    The only draw back is that cross-platform developers targeting Linux for commercial games won't benefit any more from the copy protection provided by the cryptographic locks and will have to either invent other protections that will work on this standard platform (cue in StarFuck and all associated problems), count on log-ins for on-line games or accept risk and take into account the possibility of being easily copied.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Hybrid solution should be best.... by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      You'd base a console on a bytecode interpreter!?

      --
      The cake is a pie
  48. Java by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

    We have this. It is called Java. And the performance just screams.
    http://www.java.com/en/games/

    It is Java http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language) , so by design it will work on any modern console. My Wii w/Opera and Java, my Mac, my Vista box, or my Suse box.

    Personally, I like the Flash ones better;
    http://www.addictinggames.com/whackyourex.html

    (Note, sarcasm implied)

  49. Windows is the standard by Asmor · · Score: 1

    PCs would have to have a set standard for it to work. There is a standard, and it's called Windows.

    Love it or hate it, that's undeniably the single biggest thing Windows has going for it. Microsoft dominates because Microsoft dominates.
    1. Re:Windows is the standard by bipbop · · Score: 2, Informative

      What? No. Windows is *multiple* standards :-) At the moment, the most relevant mutually incompatible systems are XP and Vista.

  50. Already done by MarklarOfMarklar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's already on the market, and most game producers are already developing on that platform. They're called PCs. PCs are cheap, and are -everywhere-. There are more PCs that are 2-years old or younger than all of the game systems that have ever been produced combined. The 'standard' PC architecture is constantly climbing in its capabilities, so any PC game produced today, even if it requires 'top-of-the-line' hardware will be usable by most PC owners within a year or maybe two, and again, we're talking about many, many times more prospective costomers than owners of games consoles. Oh yeah, and games produced for the PC today will work on most PCs that are produced two years from now. You can't say that about game consoles. All they have to do is produce GOOD products, and people buy them. (Blizzard is grossing over $1Billion/year right now. Yes, that's Billion, and that's only for WoW.)

  51. Not the whole console by DrYak · · Score: 1

    You'd base a console on a bytecode interpreter!?

    Not the whole console. Not as in "Java bytecode interpreter".

    I suggest that all consoles should, among other, export a standard bytecode or script interpreter and standard 3D API, as a target for homebrew and indie developper.
    Something that could be easily targeted whatever the console is.

    Bytecode or some other script language have a couple of benefits :

    - Not dependent on Processor ISA : this generation happens to use PowerPC and derivative. But it wasn't the case of last generation and it's not sure about next generation. With a bytecode interpreter or some scripting language like Python, you can run the same program whatever the actual processor is. Or run some setup startup script witch could subsequently load processor specific binaries and libraries if needed.

    - What tales up most of the processing power in a games are the graphics and other multimedia stuff. If your console provides in its firmware native binaries for stuff like SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL, auxiliary stuff like libzip, libjpeg, etc. maybe even some scene library or some physics library, and corresponding bindings to the bytecode VM or scripting language (like PyGames, Perl::SDL, etc.) most of the hardwork will be handled in the native libraries.
    Several Linux games have proved that you can actually develop decent games in Perl and Python, as long as the intensive part is taken care of in native libraries.
    (Even in commercial games like most recent from id software, a huge part of the game is ran inside a VM)

    - As an extreme example there are a lot of quite well done Flash games. And flash only provide a fraction of what libraries' binding I suggest should be available on a byte code console subsystem (Flash doesn't provide accelerated 3D, nor 3d audio, etc.)

    - Such system would be used for small (in term of complexity) games anyway : like puzzle games, adventure games, 2D platformer, dating sims, 2D strategy, rythme games, etc. (the kind where you have 2D or stylised 3D cute graphics).
    Huge multimedia productions (like halo 3) that show of the console need to be hardware specific anyway in order to push the platform to its limits, and thus are not going to be cross platform anyway, so I'm not even considering this in my linux/SDL/opengl common cross platform target.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  52. This won't work. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    You can't even make one that will work in every computer without periodically updating the disc.

    Game consoles do this by storing updates on the hard drive. But at that point, why not just boot an OS off the hard drive to manage it?

    In short... not gonna work, even on a PC, let alone consoles. I could rant for quite awhile on why it won't work, and why it'd be a bad idea even if it would, but for now, the fact that you've even suggested the idea tells me you haven't seriously thought it through. So do the research, or take my word for it.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:This won't work. by drfrog · · Score: 1

      your word? is nothin but negative and dismissing. my research? well before you infer i have done none, maybe you should do your own and ask if i have or not.

      ive used quite a few good linux and windows based live cd's
      the topic isnt new, as much as you want to nay say it, the possibility is there.

      all work in various forms, yes some have had problems, but so have most o/s's so that is a pretty dubious argument.

      fact is a game isnt going to need all the over head a full o/s would
      one could chop out a lot of cruft and specialize the games os to run full out for gaming, not to mention reduce the memory footprint

      the developing company would have complete control over the games os ...this is a big advantage over having to integrate with an os you dont have control over.

      --
      back in the day we didnt have no old school
    2. Re:This won't work. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      the topic isnt new, as much as you want to nay say it, the possibility is there.

      I know. There are even a few out there. Gentoo put out a LiveCD which had America's Army, for instance.

      And that no longer works -- the drivers don't support newer video cards. Which is fine, though annoying, for America's Army -- you can just download another one. But it sucks for a game you paid for, and it still sucks for America's Army -- why download another 700 meg livecd (or 4.3 gigabyte DVD) to patch some 5-10 megs worth of drivers?

      And you're right, it's not new. There were a couple of old DOS games which shipped on a bootable CD, maybe even a bootable floppy. All of which are painful to play now, because of the same reason -- no hardware support. Plus, a modern computer could play probably ten or twenty copies of those games, simultaneously, if they didn't depend on booting this specialized OS.

      It wouldn't even work for new games. The day Doom3 came out, both nVidia and ATI had new drivers, with improvements for OpenGL.

      I am not saying that you can't make a game that boots from a DVD. I'm saying you'd have to be retarded to try it, when it's so much less work simply to port it to the OS. If it's really such a big deal, write your game in Java -- then you won't even have to recompile for other CPU architectures, let alone OSes.

      all work in various forms, yes some have had problems, but so have most o/s's so that is a pretty dubious argument.

      Most OSes can at least patch themselves.

      one could chop out a lot of cruft and specialize the games os to run full out for gaming, not to mention reduce the memory footprint

      Which has nothing to do with livecds.

      Also, memory is hardly the bottleneck. CPU, video card usage, network performance, etc, these things matter, but they are also not something that the OS (besides Vista) will interfere with.

      the developing company would have complete control over the games os ...this is a big advantage over having to integrate with an os you dont have control over.

      And a big disadvantage as soon as you want -- oh -- a savegame. Then you have to integrate with a filesystem you don't have control over, without the benefit of the OS drivers for it.

      Let's not forget the cost of rebooting. Ever notice how long it takes to load a livecd? Now consider that you have to stop everything else the computer is capable of...

      I would very much like to leave my torrents running while I play games, thanks.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:This won't work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me, drfrog, how I may go about becoming a "member of the international web community". Where do I send my application?

  53. Linux and OpenGL. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Even just OpenGL on Windows, they could do without paying a licensing fee. (Not sure what's needed for DirectX.)

    And there are plenty of open source libs, even engines, some BSD-licensed, which could give you a "platform" that is a compile away from any desktop OS.

    So why do they use DirectX on Windows, and consoles? (Hell, I seem to remember EA embeds IE on Windows.)

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  54. That doesn't make it better for users. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Developers, yes. Middleware means you can and will have ports to all consoles.

    But users still have the choice between the Xbox 360 for its exclusives, the PS3 for its raw power (unless the 360 is enough), or the Wii for the Wiimote. And once they have one of these, they lose all the benefits of any of the others. Were they to switch, they'd still have games that only work on one.

    So, simplest example: Say you buy an Xbox 360 and a Wii, which seems the sanest choice (vs a PS3, which might still cost as much as both). Now, when you see a new game that's out for both, do you buy it for the 360 (superior graphics), or the Wii (cool controls)? Even if you bought both, which do you play, since you can't port savegames?

    Why should you have to choose?

    Had consoles died, say, five years ago, the Wiimote might exist anyway, but it'd be a PC peripheral. That would mean you could develop a game that'd be both -- it would demand the very highest performance, and a Wiimote. Or you could ship exactly the same game, and have it use a Wiimote if available, and a mouse if not.

    I'm not saying I want consoles to die, but I am saying that it's not enough to have a single software target for developers -- for it to be effective, this must also be a single target for consumers. The PC is close, but consoles are too much cheaper, and Windows just makes this suck.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  55. News Flash by iamghetto · · Score: 1

    I believe that's called a computer.

  56. Middleware? by jythie · · Score: 1

    Isn't this exactly the role middleware fills?

    If you want a common engine that will run on multiple platforms, then go to a company who's business model is, well, making a common engine that will run on multiple platforms.

    Granted EA would probably be happier if the entire industry just changed to suit them rather then paying a license to some other company for something they want.

  57. As long as... by GWBasic · · Score: 1

    As long as there are platforms with highly unique capabilities; there will be no common API. How could one create a WiiMote if the Wii had to execute a common platform?

    I predict that the common platform will only be viable for games that are using minimal hardware. An example are Flash games that run in the browser, yet really aren't very technically advanced.

  58. Not to sound like a troll... by Vacardo · · Score: 0

    But the PC is the closest thing we're going to get for a 'standard' machine where everyone can meet.

  59. As well as CD-i, MSX and the 3D0... by CelticLo · · Score: 1

    There was also TAOS released in 1992 by the Tao Group which advocated an OS that was based on a Virtual Machine, with emulators for this virtual processor available for a plethora of platforms including the 680x0, x86, ARM, MIPS (for Sony's PS1) and Inmos transputers.
    Further reading here

    Another interesting take on this idea was the Nuon from VM Labs who developed a games machine on a chip that could be added to DVD players. Around eight Nuon DVD decks were released but only Jeff Minter's Tempest 3000 and the VLM-2 lightsynth were ever released along with a handful of Nuon enhanced DVD titles. (Both these titles migrated to the xbox360)

  60. EA = Evil Assholes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Evil Assholes aren't very smart if they think there will ever be a time where there is no competition in the gaming hardware market. But we already knew they weren't smart. What they are is greedy, uncreative, slave-driving, hope-destroying Evil Assholes who want to buy all game companies until they are the only one, and have only one console, and eventually even just one game (Madden). EA should die, they are a pestilence and a plague upon us all.

  61. EA wants 'open gaming platform' by xkhaozx · · Score: 1

    "EA wants 'open gaming platform'" Yeah, it's called a PC.