As mentioned, they have yet to release any product worth much this century --- say that slowly to yourself!
Are you completely mental, some of their biggest products have been this century:
Xbox
Xbox 360
windows XP
Office xp
Office 2003 .Net .Net 2.0
Those are just off the top of my head... your comments have no basis in reality
I also value my private time and don't feel a need to be contactable 24/7
I've always thought this was a bullshit argument against cell technology. If you don't want to be contacted, turn the fucking phone off! It's that simple. I can't think of a single landline based phone that has the same capability. You either have to unplug from the wall or leave if off the hook. At least with my phone off, I can still get a voicemail.
The certification acronym is MCSE - Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. Not MSCE, if you are going to show how useless a certain certification is, you might want to correctly identify the certification. People could think you are talking about windows ce, or perhaps the Master of Science in Clinical Epidemiology degree.
ActiveX has failed to make Dot-NET take off in the web application world. Why do you think that Silverlight will do any better?
ActiveX has nothing to do with.Net. It is legacy (think vb6). The.Net technology on the web would be Asp.Net. So you could say that.Net has taken off in the web world in a big way. If required, you can use activex with.Net, but you don't need to by any means.
No, they aren't.
yes, they, are
from tiobe:
The ratings are based on the world-wide availability of skilled engineers, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, and Yahoo! are used to calculate the ratings. Observe that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.
dedasys also uses web stats, along with projects in freashmeat, well that is a language bias right there, why not include codeproject or sourceforge? Also in the normalized chart he doesn't include the jobs/1000's of google hits where c# dominates java. From dedasys: C# looks to be an up-and-comer in the corporate world, with lots of jobs posted, but not as much traction on the web. One might speculate that, since it's the future for the Microsoft platform, companies are requiring it as a skill for new hires. Metrics are a tricky thing, they only tell so much, it is very easy to get an incorrect bias in any direction.
Yeah, the new version had great new features for a low low price. But customers don't always want to be on a treadmill. Most just want their apps to work.
Every language progresses and in the process drops and adds features (deprecation). The Runtime Callable wrapper allows legacy code to run with no code changes. This makes them just work. It also allows for time to re-factor/update code into.Net an assembly at a time if so desired.
I can always tell when people have maintained a large codebase and when they haven't.
Oh really? Awfully pretentious of you to think so.
C# !=.NET.
I never said that, and I'm not sure where you are getting the assumption that I think as much. I said.Net is a set of technologies, not least of which includes the language. You said.Net is a language which is a fallacy..Net supports many languages, too many to list. Notice the critical missing piece?
What do you think happens when you want to leave Microsoft?
Never said I wanted to
What do you think MS does when they've got you locked in? What they always do. What any vendor that gets you locked in does. They bend you over a barrel.
Like when Sun had complete control of java? It's only been since November 2006 that it was open sourced. So that's what like 12 years of lock-in. And you try to pawn yourself off as an open source proponent.
taking advantage of actual marketplaces full of innovation and competition...
Trying to claim that the.Net world has no innovation or competition, that's rich, thanks for the laugh.
That is the definition of openness - when you don't have to pay MS a cent to use.NET.
I'm glad we agree, because you don't have to pay them a cent. You can get the.Net frameworks (all 3) for free and all of the express editions of the programing languages are free along with SQL server express.
.NET has never been ported anywhere, and it never will.
(Go ahead, say that Mono will do it. I dare you.)
I don't need to, they already have. 1.1 is fully supported and 2.0 is well on the way. Your arguments are so full of holes it's not even funny. You have pie in the sky dreams for java and open source. Fine, I have no problems with that, I wish both the best of luck. But your analysis of.Net just being tired and dying at the moment is completely false. It may be dead someday, I really don't care. A language is a tool, a means to an end. I'll always use what best suits the job and not get caught up in language bigotry. It makes me more marketable and higher paid.
So those references you gave are just a compilation of web search hits based on language. This in no way reflects size of community or language activity. You would be dense to believe that these numbers reflect anything more than search criteria. I might as well take the number of books listed on Amazon for each language to see what is the most popular. It's all bullshit.
It sounds familiar because the VB guys said the same thing. Look what happened to them.
yes, what did happen to vb6? Well they upgraded the language to.Net and allowed.Net to call COM libraries seamlessly through the RCW. So you get a more powerful language and don't lose any of your old code/functionality. Boo Fucking Hoo.
Most languages we use widely today are truly open.
If Microsoft wanted to beat the crap out of Java all they'd need to do would be to put down the patent gun, open up their sources, and let.NET embrace cross platform. They could perhaps out-Java Java.
This I agree with
We both know very well they wont. It's because.NET is not designed to win the language wars or be the best language. .Net is a set of technologies, not a language. You keep waxing intellectual about.Net, but yet, I keep having to correct you. And as for the open sourcing of.Net that is yet to be determined.
coming up with a.Net clone
Do you mean mono? Because the article was talking about the Microsoft created CLR on other OSes. Mono is a whole different conversation. The CLR isn't a.Net clone, it is in fact the.Net runtime or VM if you will. If the runtime is cross platform, you have the potential to use whatever language you want, compile it to the.Net CLR and take advantage of any.Net library written with any language on any OS that the CLR is implemented on. That's pretty damn powerful. So if that's where this is all going, I'm on board. So I don't think I missed the context as you claim, because this is pretty much what the article was saying. You did read the article right?
Perhaps I did guess wrong about what you know about.Net, but I think it's pretty obvious that.Net is not dead/dying. It's being used and updated quite frequently. And I don't want to get into a dick swinging contest about Java vs..Net, both have their places. Personally I prefer.Net, Java doesn't do much for me, never has. But the point is.Net is getting new development and it has quite a large developer base. Like it or not,.Net is a major player.
That C#/.NET hype is so damn tired. It's a dead-end platform, unless MS opens it up, or chooses to add some truly novel features to it in the future.
I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about.Net, which is why I'll correct you....Net 3.0 was released recently with 4 MAJOR new components:
Windows Presentation Foundation
Windows Communication Foundation
Windows Workflow Foundation
Windows CardSpace
Plus.Net 3.5 is on the way
So A,.Net is NOT dead/tired, and B they have added truly novel features. Do some research instead of making asinine comments.
I hope the iPhone is a success enough so that the other cell phone companies will start making decent phones again. The one feature that I truly want and can never find is a phone that makes good quality phone calls and is a decently small size. It's a phone people, that should be the main feature. I couldn't care less if the stupid thing has a camera, color screen, flips, flops, or makes my breakfast (although that last one might be nice).
Only on slashdot do you get an involved conversation about who is creaming who without any hint of innuendo. I would be proud of the level of maturity but again this is slashdot.
I totally agree, because those cameras are pretty much the same as your standard point and shoot. The problem is that they claim the picture is "better". Which is a totally subjective term. When I use my SLR, I can adjust the aperture to get the depth of field that I want and adjust the shutter speed to get the lighting I want. This is just not possible with this type of camera. So given certain conditions it can take a good picture, the SLR is infinitely more adaptable to any given situation. This allows for creativity and artfulness where the fixed lens camera phone will always take a photo with the same depth, it tends to give much flatter boring photos.
How does Microsoft know what the iPhone can and cannot do?
Because apple has said that the iPhone is a closed system. Which means only approved 3rd party app if any will be able to run on the iPhone. Which means the large corporations which write mobile applications won't be able to leverage the iPhone. Which is the point you totally missed.
I forgot to add the fact that MS will have plenty of their own stock, but I don't think that counts as cash on hand. So while it is technically an asset, it doesn't go on the books as cash. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
...and stock is going to tumble. *That* then becomes the real financial loss for MS.
That's actually not true, only on the IPO does the company see money influx, or if they happen to have some other public stock offering. The price in the stockmarket is just the amount that people are willing to pay for 1 share. Therefore if you have a low price, it is either because shareholders don't have confidence in the company, or perhaps that the company is very stable and giving out dividends (which would be the MS case)
So the stock price could be $0 and MS wouldn't see any financial loss, although investors wouldn't place any confidence in the company and that could cause big issues.
This is a sign of lazy or stupid programmers not doing proper checking of the input.
While I agree on this point, it also is becoming blatantly obvious that MS's testing is really lackluster as well. Proper testing should have brought this to light long ago.
Am I the only one who welcomed XP over 2000? The driver support alone made that decision easy. Plus I had much more stability on XP, even on the initial release. Also remote desktop in XP Pro was built in... that was nice.
Slashdot Mirror
Mine doesn't, Idaho...
...and for the kill... Depends on what your definition of "is" is
As mentioned, they have yet to release any product worth much this century --- say that slowly to yourself!
.Net
.Net 2.0
Are you completely mental, some of their biggest products have been this century:
Xbox
Xbox 360
windows XP
Office xp
Office 2003
Those are just off the top of my head... your comments have no basis in reality
I also value my private time and don't feel a need to be contactable 24/7
I've always thought this was a bullshit argument against cell technology. If you don't want to be contacted, turn the fucking phone off! It's that simple. I can't think of a single landline based phone that has the same capability. You either have to unplug from the wall or leave if off the hook. At least with my phone off, I can still get a voicemail.
The certification acronym is MCSE - Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. Not MSCE, if you are going to show how useless a certain certification is, you might want to correctly identify the certification. People could think you are talking about windows ce, or perhaps the Master of Science in Clinical Epidemiology degree.
ActiveX has failed to make Dot-NET take off in the web application world. Why do you think that Silverlight will do any better?
.Net. It is legacy (think vb6). The .Net technology on the web would be Asp.Net. So you could say that .Net has taken off in the web world in a big way. If required, you can use activex with .Net, but you don't need to by any means.
ActiveX has nothing to do with
No, they aren't.
.Net an assembly at a time if so desired.
.NET. .Net is a set of technologies, not least of which includes the language. You said .Net is a language which is a fallacy. .Net supports many languages, too many to list. Notice the critical missing piece?
.Net world has no innovation or competition, that's rich, thanks for the laugh.
.NET. .Net frameworks (all 3) for free and all of the express editions of the programing languages are free along with SQL server express.
.NET has never been ported anywhere, and it never will. .Net just being tired and dying at the moment is completely false. It may be dead someday, I really don't care. A language is a tool, a means to an end. I'll always use what best suits the job and not get caught up in language bigotry. It makes me more marketable and higher paid.
yes, they, are
from tiobe: The ratings are based on the world-wide availability of skilled engineers, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, and Yahoo! are used to calculate the ratings. Observe that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.
dedasys also uses web stats, along with projects in freashmeat, well that is a language bias right there, why not include codeproject or sourceforge? Also in the normalized chart he doesn't include the jobs/1000's of google hits where c# dominates java. From dedasys: C# looks to be an up-and-comer in the corporate world, with lots of jobs posted, but not as much traction on the web. One might speculate that, since it's the future for the Microsoft platform, companies are requiring it as a skill for new hires. Metrics are a tricky thing, they only tell so much, it is very easy to get an incorrect bias in any direction.
Yeah, the new version had great new features for a low low price. But customers don't always want to be on a treadmill. Most just want their apps to work.
Every language progresses and in the process drops and adds features (deprecation). The Runtime Callable wrapper allows legacy code to run with no code changes. This makes them just work. It also allows for time to re-factor/update code into
I can always tell when people have maintained a large codebase and when they haven't.
Oh really? Awfully pretentious of you to think so.
C# !=
I never said that, and I'm not sure where you are getting the assumption that I think as much. I said
What do you think happens when you want to leave Microsoft?
Never said I wanted to
What do you think MS does when they've got you locked in? What they always do. What any vendor that gets you locked in does. They bend you over a barrel.
Like when Sun had complete control of java? It's only been since November 2006 that it was open sourced. So that's what like 12 years of lock-in. And you try to pawn yourself off as an open source proponent.
taking advantage of actual marketplaces full of innovation and competition...
Trying to claim that the
That is the definition of openness - when you don't have to pay MS a cent to use
I'm glad we agree, because you don't have to pay them a cent. You can get the
(Go ahead, say that Mono will do it. I dare you.)
I don't need to, they already have. 1.1 is fully supported and 2.0 is well on the way. Your arguments are so full of holes it's not even funny. You have pie in the sky dreams for java and open source. Fine, I have no problems with that, I wish both the best of luck. But your analysis of
So those references you gave are just a compilation of web search hits based on language. This in no way reflects size of community or language activity. You would be dense to believe that these numbers reflect anything more than search criteria. I might as well take the number of books listed on Amazon for each language to see what is the most popular. It's all bullshit.
.Net and allowed .Net to call COM libraries seamlessly through the RCW. So you get a more powerful language and don't lose any of your old code/functionality. Boo Fucking Hoo.
.NET embrace cross platform. They could perhaps out-Java Java.
.NET is not designed to win the language wars or be the best language.
.Net is a set of technologies, not a language. You keep waxing intellectual about .Net, but yet, I keep having to correct you. And as for the open sourcing of .Net that is yet to be determined.
It sounds familiar because the VB guys said the same thing. Look what happened to them.
yes, what did happen to vb6? Well they upgraded the language to
Most languages we use widely today are truly open.
Newsflash: C# is open!
If Microsoft wanted to beat the crap out of Java all they'd need to do would be to put down the patent gun, open up their sources, and let
This I agree with
We both know very well they wont. It's because
coming up with a .Net clone .Net clone, it is in fact the .Net runtime or VM if you will. If the runtime is cross platform, you have the potential to use whatever language you want, compile it to the .Net CLR and take advantage of any .Net library written with any language on any OS that the CLR is implemented on. That's pretty damn powerful. So if that's where this is all going, I'm on board. So I don't think I missed the context as you claim, because this is pretty much what the article was saying. You did read the article right?
Do you mean mono? Because the article was talking about the Microsoft created CLR on other OSes. Mono is a whole different conversation. The CLR isn't a
Perhaps I did guess wrong about what you know about .Net, but I think it's pretty obvious that .Net is not dead/dying. It's being used and updated quite frequently. And I don't want to get into a dick swinging contest about Java vs. .Net, both have their places. Personally I prefer .Net, Java doesn't do much for me, never has. But the point is .Net is getting new development and it has quite a large developer base. Like it or not, .Net is a major player.
That C#/.NET hype is so damn tired. It's a dead-end platform, unless MS opens it up, or chooses to add some truly novel features to it in the future.
.Net, which is why I'll correct you... .Net 3.0 was released recently with 4 MAJOR new components:
.Net 3.5 is on the way
.Net is NOT dead/tired, and B they have added truly novel features. Do some research instead of making asinine comments.
I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about
Windows Presentation Foundation
Windows Communication Foundation
Windows Workflow Foundation
Windows CardSpace
Plus
So A,
I hope the iPhone is a success enough so that the other cell phone companies will start making decent phones again. The one feature that I truly want and can never find is a phone that makes good quality phone calls and is a decently small size. It's a phone people, that should be the main feature. I couldn't care less if the stupid thing has a camera, color screen, flips, flops, or makes my breakfast (although that last one might be nice).
Shit hardware is going to run like shit no matter what OS you use. Maybe you should have tried a thinkpad.
3-A. Change marketing currency to British pounds 4-A. Profit More
It also takes into account its very specific target audience
it's purely a laptop for children, particularly those in developing nations.
Also, unlike those products, this is not a niche product.
Confused? Me too.
niche: "A special area of demand for a product or service"
Only on slashdot do you get an involved conversation about who is creaming who without any hint of innuendo. I would be proud of the level of maturity but again this is slashdot.
I totally agree, because those cameras are pretty much the same as your standard point and shoot. The problem is that they claim the picture is "better". Which is a totally subjective term. When I use my SLR, I can adjust the aperture to get the depth of field that I want and adjust the shutter speed to get the lighting I want. This is just not possible with this type of camera. So given certain conditions it can take a good picture, the SLR is infinitely more adaptable to any given situation. This allows for creativity and artfulness where the fixed lens camera phone will always take a photo with the same depth, it tends to give much flatter boring photos.
How does Microsoft know what the iPhone can and cannot do?
Because apple has said that the iPhone is a closed system. Which means only approved 3rd party app if any will be able to run on the iPhone. Which means the large corporations which write mobile applications won't be able to leverage the iPhone. Which is the point you totally missed.
I forgot to add the fact that MS will have plenty of their own stock, but I don't think that counts as cash on hand. So while it is technically an asset, it doesn't go on the books as cash. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
...and stock is going to tumble. *That* then becomes the real financial loss for MS.
That's actually not true, only on the IPO does the company see money influx, or if they happen to have some other public stock offering. The price in the stockmarket is just the amount that people are willing to pay for 1 share. Therefore if you have a low price, it is either because shareholders don't have confidence in the company, or perhaps that the company is very stable and giving out dividends (which would be the MS case)
So the stock price could be $0 and MS wouldn't see any financial loss, although investors wouldn't place any confidence in the company and that could cause big issues.
Dear Everyone,
There is no all-in-one bullet proof solution to every IT issue/problem. Stop looking, stop asking.
Cordially,
Bean
P.S. It's a good thing!
the big guys are only going to do it if they can control it internally
And they can...
This is a sign of lazy or stupid programmers not doing proper checking of the input.
While I agree on this point, it also is becoming blatantly obvious that MS's testing is really lackluster as well. Proper testing should have brought this to light long ago.
Am I the only one who welcomed XP over 2000? The driver support alone made that decision easy. Plus I had much more stability on XP, even on the initial release. Also remote desktop in XP Pro was built in... that was nice.
The real quote: The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn't Exist where the devil is keiser sose, not satan