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Landline Holders Increasingly Older, More Affluent
netbuzz writes "More than a quarter of the under-30 crowd has decided you only need one telephone — and it sure as heck does not plug into a wall. The trend towards an all-mobile lifestyle is accelerating, according to a new survey. Besides younger people, lower-income people are also more likely to have cut the cord. And while businesses may be a bit slower on the cell-only uptake, there appears to be little doubt at this point that the traditional landline will be joining rotary dials and party lines as a relic of the telecommunications industry."
Oh yeah, I'm over 30. So what.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
I'd like to get rid of the landline, but unfortunately cable & wireless is still rather poor here in Australia. Mobiles are all well and good, but I wub my interwebs too much to stop paying the line rental.
Between the falling angel and the rising ape
Hmm... the article mentioned businesses switching exclusively to mobile services.
:-)
It would be interesting if a wireless carrier introduced PBX-esque switching and operation. If service is good enough (a factor I'd assume holds most people back from ditching the land line), I'm sure a lot of small businesses would forgo a PBX-based telephone for a more easily set-up wireless based system.
I'd certainly get a cell phone with blinky lights that indicate a call coming through on line three!
This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
You go with cellular. I did this in '00. Won't go back.
Camping on quad since 1996.
That's fine if that's what you value. Me, after many stubborn years, I've learned the fine art of the two hour phone call. And that takes a quality phone line where you can hear the other party breathe. Otherwise, it's just multitasking distractions. Yuck. I do too much of that at work to want to run my personal life that way.
"More than a quarter of the under-30 crowd has decided you only need one telephone -- and it sure as heck does not plug into a wall.
I'm in that category - I own a mobile, but unfortunately, here in Australia, you need to rent a landline from the monopoly PSTN provider (Telstra) if you want to have broadband internet (ADSL anyway).
So I have a landline I never use.
God they're filthy (Telstra) - hopefully we'll have a change of Government soon & get rid of the current spineless Prime Minister John Howard - who can't stand up to Telstra.
I am not sure about anywhere else in the world, or even if the technology demands it, but in Australia, you need a landline to get broadband. That is the only reason that alot of people I know still have a landline (and paying $AU20 a month for it). Other then that, my mobile trumps home phone everytime. It's alot better for me, as I am rarely home (and yes, I am under 30).
Correct me if I'm wrong. If phone lines aren't hampered with having to carry voice communications, will DSL be able to grab more bandwidth?
I remember reading the term "Party Line" in Mad magazine. That lead me to believe that it was some kind of telephonic swingers service. Following the link from the article I'm even more confused than ever! What the heck is a party line?!!
I probably would have cut the cord a long time ago, but every time I start looking at cell phone plans, I just get mad. Especially with the various taxes that are always listed separately. Look, I don't care if you have to pay this tax, that fee, your company's hydro bill or for your CEO's lunches, just tell me what the bloody thing costs.
:p)
Besides, don't DSL companies still charge you the $10 or so for a landline?
Anyone care to suggest a cell phone provider in Toronto that won't get my blood pressure up (too much?
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In the US, the land line thing has been a racket for many decades.....
Sure, they shelled out for the copper run all over the place.....decades ago. For that, I have no problem with them getting a cookie.....until about 1965.
OK, I admit that I never caught the cell phone bug. I have one, but it's provided by work, so what model I have is their choice. I got one for my wife for emergencies and occasional use, and we talk with each other on it, but that's about all.
So how do you handle extensions? You know, someone calls you, and you want to say, "Honey, pick up an extension." so you can talk together. Do you just 3-way the call?
And how do you handle guests? Do you simply assume that if they want to make a call, they just use their own cell phone?
I certainly have nothing against cell phones, I jut never really felt a pressing need.
Oh, and how do you handle devices that need to "dial home" periodically? (ReplayTV box, DirecTV box, etc.)
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
I converted to cell-only not because I'm always on the go or because of any cachet, but to avoid the constant barrage of telemarketer and solicitation calls I received at my land line. Getting on the "do not call" list was only marginally successful; most of the telemarketers who kept calling claimed they were exempt for some reason or another. It was a constant annoyance, and still the #1 reason I refuse to get a land line again.
If we do go all-cellular, I wonder if the legislation about telemarketers being unable to call cell phones would change. I'm praying it won't -- I've been enjoying the peace and quiet, quite frankly.
Paul McNamara, I suggest you get a different job. I suppose you were paid for the nonsense you wrote.
Cell phones are nowhere near as reliable as land lines, and all VOIP phones are worse. Not only that, but cell phone providers and VOIP providers save money by being unreliable, and there is no evidence that they plan to change their behavior.
I think you know this. That makes your lies fraud, in my opinion.
I guess your handlers call themselves NetBuzz because they think they are good at advertising. But they aren't. They and you are just liars, in my opinion.
Everyone who needs reliable telephone service has land lines, and there is no evidence that will change in the near future.
Anyhow, we don't want your kind corrupting our discussions of technology on Slashdot. Stay away.
I haven't owned a landline in almost five years now. Even now that my wife and I live in another state, we still have our original cell phone numbers , which is a little awkward when giving our phone numbers to businesses as we have totally different area codes, but I don't think twice about it when giving my number out to a friend or coworker. The only reason I can see us getting a landline is for when we have kids and they have a 911 emergency or something. I know 911 cell phone calls are advanced, but I would just feel better knowing it was being placed by a landline.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Thanks to good 'ol taxes that bump the price up to 25 bucks a month, then the fact cell phones have that "when your car breaks down" or "I have an emergency" convience that almost makes them a requirement, it makes no sense to not have a cell phone. And if you have a cell phone, why pay extra for the landline? The only reason not to have a cell phone really is if you absolutely cannot afford them (which is nobody in the US except for the homeless) or if your scared of them (which is surprisingly more than you might think).
Can someone explain why the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did a survey on cellular phone usage? Did they read Stephen King's Cell and take it seriously?
What about calls from your cell phone service provider, trying to sell you cell phone service? Almost everyone I know gets those... (I wish I were kidding)
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Land lines are a huge revenue earner for the telcos, but it's not seen as a growth area. Cell phones and Enterprise VoIP are where they're going.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
I've been contemplating for a long time to cut off the landline at home. Right now we're only using it for our broadband connection. We hardly ever get or make any phone calls using the line.
As celcos here in Malaysia are starting to provide more and better broadband options, I've recently been thinking about also terminating that broadband connection, and to go with what the celco is providing. There's one provider that has a 3G-based broadband service, which has double advantage for me -- on the go, I can surf/email on my mobile phone, and at home I can use the mobile as a modem connected via bluetooth/IR/whatever.
Right now I've heard great things about the service, but that's probably due to lack of uptake. Once more and more people jump on the bandwagon, it'd be interesting to see how the increase in usage affects connectivity speed.
The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
That is sensationalist crap, the thing about landlines being obselete. Maybe young students or people with apartments, but come on. There are huge advantages to a landline. It's more reliable and jamproof, and if you want an extra phone you pay $10 at the grocery store instead of hundreds (and repeating that every few years as they get obsolete). The voice quality is better and it doesn't run on freaking batteries. It's on the wall so you always know where it is and you don't lose it in the couch cushions. I can't imagine having a house without phones on the walls. What the hell do you do if you have kids and you have to hire a babysitter? Leave her your cellphone? Then what do you call home with? You can call her cellphone from yours but then there's still no number for the household, say if the neighbors want to tell you there's a fire next door or a prowler. And so on.
We can do both already. It's just a matter of keeping the airspace clean enough for the radio waves to travel.
And THAT is why it will be a while before businesses get rid of their lines. You want the cleanest voice connections you can get. Yo don nt c st m rs o ha e t dea ith al s re ki g p.
I ca 't wa t f r th en ire worl to be o c ll lar te eph nes. he ell lar s rvic an ca l q ali y ha gr dual y g tte wor e to th po nt t at m st of the ente ce ust e gu ssed ro c ntext.
I look forward to guessing the meaning of all my calls in the future
Dekker Dreyer
How about the slow adoption rate being because many businesses have their own PBXs and want to control their voice mail? For many companies, switching to wireless phones simply isn't a viable solution and probably won't be for a long time. Sure, they're more reliable than they used to be, but they're still not as reliable as POTS. Keeping track mobile phones may also be difficult. Example: My mom's work phone still had service over 6 months after she quit her job.
Additionally, many companies would probably be reluctant to outsource their voicemail for security and confidentiality purposes. Besides, do you really want to answer work calls wherever you go? Talk about taking your work home with you. Work phones should stay in the office. If employees want to answer calls on the road, maybe their employer should consider some kind of call forwarding functionality. Juggling multiple phones for home/work/etc is not something I'm interested in.
I don't have decent cellular coverage in my house, and I live one mile from downtown Palo Alto in Silicon Valley. Five cellular stores (not counting the Apple store) within walking distance, and I have to go to a window to get more than one bar on the phone. Gigahertz RF doesn't go through trees, you know.
Only it isn't just broadband, there are tons of people stuck on dial-up that hate it, but have no other choice.
I'm one of them. Too far out for DSL or wireless, and my only choices are very slow dial-up or satellite. Now I would love to ditch the phone and just use my work cell phone, but I'm not sure about satellite. I've just heard so many bad things. Heck, I even used to work for a satellite dealer, and I hated our demo...but I have heard they have made some improvements since I did that.
Transporter_ii
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
Cellphones will not completely supplant POTS land lines for some time. I never use my cellphone if a real phone is around. The call quality is better, the calls are cheaper, and as far as battery issues are concerned there is just no comparison. You don't even need a battery at all with POTS. What makes POTS a pain in the ass is the separate monthly bill to pay, since most people now have a cellphone bill anyway. Plus, there is Rotary Phone Disorder to contend with. People get attached to the technologies they're familiar with, if they think they work well enough, and they won't want to waste time learning how newfangled technology works. Old people especially seem to get stuck to the form of telephony they're used to. My own grandmother was still using a rotary phone just a few years ago until I found her one of those art deco touch tone phones with the buttons in the same positions as the old rotary dial finger holes.
The article sounded like what we were around 5 to 6 years ago. Now everyone is expected to have mobiles from school kids to my grandmom (84 years old).
A prepaid subscription costs around RM8.90 (USD1.00 = RM3.8) with no obligation to stick to it. If you don't like the plan just throw the sim card away.
The single overriding factor why I will never ever use a mobile phone in North America is the dual-billing fiasco. I am Canadian who has been travelling all over the south pacific (NZ, Aus, Fiji, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, etc.) for the past few years. Every single mobile plan here is "caller pays". When I went back home I was shocked to see that not only was I paying to make calls, but I had to pay to receive calls. And, I had to pay a nice premium to use a pay-as-you-go service.
As one of my Aussie friends said when he visited Vancouver early this year, "I was a bit shocked to hear how rude people were on the phone". After I told him about the dual-billing, he realized that people were only trying to keep their conversations short.
Hmmm, does dual-billing actually keep people off their phones? I wonder how much money a company makes just by having credit expire because people are afraid of paying for receiving calls?
Does VOIP count as cutting your landline? I just installed a VOIP-only Asterisk solution at work, and I am using the exact same setup here at home*. While I count as in the over 30 crowd, I have a cell phone, but I don't always carry it.
I think that POTS is dead, and just does not know it. There is a use to VOIP at home, and cell while you are away from home.
*(Now if I could just find a good FXO solution for my Asterisk Unslung NSLU2 at home... No, not for regular POTS.)
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
...becaust the Internet is unreliable.
Have a nice day.
My sig can beat up your sig.
I assume this is the case for you, as the thread is about phones. To spell it out for you, You don't need phone service to use the same copper cable for dsl service. They have nothing to do with each other. I know people who have their internet connectivity from company A and phone service from company B. Personally, I have a GSM and aDSL on my landline without phoneservice. If the ISP is telling you that you must have a phonesubscription to get dsl service, you call Bullshit!
m10
Until I can get a cell signal down here in my parents basement, I've got no choice but to use a landline.
*sigh*
literally. I cut the wire at the back of my house/home office and let it fall then walked back to the pole and cut it again. I'm pissed off at SBC and I will NEVER have a land line again, ever. I already had a cell phone so I just changed my biz cards to show my cell number as my business number. I'm saving money and headaches, I never miss calls because I carry it with me everywhere and never power it down. Life is much easier this way, I only wish I had thought of doing this several years before, I could have saved a medium sized fortune in phone bills and would have enhanced my business abilities back when I really needed to be doing so.
This isn't for everyone of course but if you have a small business that you run from a home office it's the way to go. Just set specialized ring tones for your personal friends and a generic ring tone for unknown callers so you know who's calling, friends/family or customers.
I've never had any on sprint in almost 10 years of service.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
When was the last time anyone cared what a 'broad poll' had to say? It's the pointed, narrowly focused polls that drive people to action. Heck, even the very poll used by the CDC to generate this data from 14,000+ households was not a 'broad poll.'
I have to wonder what the heck the CDC was doing checking up on people's phone situation? Did they also ask about car ownership, house ownership, or if they owned a washer and dryer or used a laundramat on Saturdays?
Error:
Businesses are not being "slow." If it's a business phone you want a phone attached to the freaking business and not in one person's pocket. Like, the front desk phone can be a landline phone that sits on the front desk, and whoever is running the fron desk can use that front-desk phone. It's really quite elegant. I don't know what you'd have, mabye a silver Motorola KRZR on one of those little ball-chains they keep pens on at the bank. I used to always steal those pens when I was a kid.
If you are too dumb to figure out how to turn off your land line when you "need some sleep", you need a dope slap not "some sleep".
From the RSS feed, or as I call it, arsefeed, right below the article is an ad for AT&T.
It's a very dark ride.
This has to be the biggest "duh factor" /. post I've ever seen. We, as a people, tend to move toward new technology, discarding the old.
1 8
7 59210
But it reminds me of two other posts which led to a purchase of mine.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/08/01422
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/26/1
Just because you're not paying for land-line service doesn't mean those wires in your walls need to go to waste, nor do you need to put up with lousy cell signals in your home. I'd like to see this sort of capability be far more prevalent in newer phones but my wife and I have discovered it's not very popular among the hardware manufacturers.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
I wonder if this study accounted for VoiP users as well for the sharp drop in regular landline users?
spoken like a true ILEC representative
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
SBC (and Cingular) is now the "new" AT&T.
AT&T. Your World. Delivered. Straight to the NSA.
-- haaz.
Oh no! What will happen to those poor bees now!? WHAT! TELL ME! WHAT WILL HAPPEN OF THEM!!!
Same here.
The telemarketeers stole my land line. I was getting more calls from them than calls I wanted and had gotten to the point of ignoring my land line most of the time anyway. Soon enough, my friends realized I would almost always answer the cell phone and rarely answered the land line. After a couple of months of that, it just seemed silly to keep paying for the phone that only rang when telemarketers called.
Push the button, Max!
...from my cold dead hands.
Never thought I'd quote Heston on anything, but it's true when it comes to landlines.
Nothing beats a landline on quality and reliability. Even if those properties don't matter to you, most people save money with a landline anyway. So what if it costs $20/month? The benefit is that unlimited long distance on a landline only costs about $5/month. Try that on a wireless. That same $25/month if spent on wireless wouldn't last long for most people.
I think I've only had two on t-Mobile. And after talking to the sales rep about the kind of customer I am (the kind who gets off contract and STAYS off, buying replacement phones unsubsidized) I never got called again. I also took the opportunity to make a few complaints the salesmen didn't have a response for. I think I'm on some unofficial "don't bother trying" list now. :-)
I'm an early adopter for technology I want (home theater in 1988, camera phone in 2003, PDA phone in 2005, etc.) and a luddite for technology I need (taxes -- pencil and paper until this year; taking notes at work -- pencil and paper; home phone -- land line until VOIP can be powered from telephone line current).
Speakeasy (my provider) assures decent QoS. Of course it still relies on a solid internet connection - and that's absolutely what it's been for me with Speakeasy in the 4+ years I've been with them.
I realize not all VoIP providers do this, but if you're willing to do a bit of investigation, you'll find that there are a few companies that do provide it. They won't be cheap, but if you're tired of the crap customer service provided by the Bells (the new AT&T), it's a decent, valid option.
Reminds me of Wayne's world to. Anyway, just for fun: "I can't wait for the entire world to be on cellular telephones. The cellular service and call quality have gradually gotten worse to the point that most of the ... guessed ...?"
I'm curious as to what that says.
What cracks me up are the radio ads that go something like "Are you tired of your complicated cell phone plan? Well sign up for Verizular's new anytime family direct, and enjoy 1000 free anytime minutes for only $26 per month to the three people you call the most on even numbered weekdays. What could be simpler! Rates subject to change, void where prohibited, network maintenance surcharge and cost recovery taxes apply...etc"
It's the same as credit card promotions, grocery club cards and coupons, mail-in rebates, etc. You and I may realize how pointless all these offers are, but so many people love playing the game and thinking they got a great deal by finding the perfect plan that was made Just For Them. Nobody does anything unless there's some game aspect to it - warfare, terrorism, finance, dating, business, taxes, politics, you name it. We are so desperate to play games that we'll create them even for things as ridiculous as cell calling plans.
And more importantly for the industry, the pricing games allow them to avoid to avoid their service becoming a simple commodity. If the plans reflected their actual cost structure they would simply charge per bit, and fierce competition would quickly drive everyone's margins to nothing. But as long as they keep it a marketing game of adding ridiculous "value add" services and tricking you into complicated pricing traps, they can keep gouging.
first po...
damn this dial up internet connection!
'Cause let's face it: "Landline" just sounds cooler than, "Cellie."
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Also, in Australia calls to Mobiles cost the person calling you, so if you have no landline, all those people who want to chat to you for hours on the phone would need to pay huge rates per the minute. Compared to a local untimed call which is, what, 30 cents or so.
In the US isn't it the case where the receiver pays? It was something like that for txt messages etc when I was over there, thereby making mobile spam horrid as you ended up being charged for receiving spam, whereas here in Aus if they spam you it costs them, not you.
As such, we can't get rid of our landline really...
I can't help but think that "lifestyle" is overstating the very simple and practical aspects, such as the mere bottom line.
My mobile phone costs less than a landline. The fact that it also just happens to actually reach me, instead of being a voicemail box, is a bonus.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Riiiight, wireless carriers less reliable than land lines? I have some news for you, they all suck. For starters, at least in this area, the lines in the ground are usually 60+ years old, and the LECs (this is Ohio, we have.... roughly 5 million different local exchange carriers) show no sign of planning to replace any lines. If you have line noise, they send a guy out, he plugs in at the demarc, hears noise, cuts you to a spare copper pair. If you call back six months later with another problem, there is a good chance some guy will cut you back to the original pair. Call again, more useless dodging the actual issue, ad nauseum. Then there is the problem running a phone switch, which Sprint United/Embarq/whatever the hell they are called these days seems to be particularly adept at. We regularly get irate calls from customers who tried to call us from their land line, only to be informed that we are "not accepting calls." Not a problem on our end, not a problem with our carrier, just a standard sprint error when a customer tries to call outside sprint's local calling area on a day when their switch techs have forgotten what a phone is for. Sprint has caused this issue twice in the past year alone, Verizon North has a similar issue they like to cause whenever my life is a bit too simple. My point is, this whole, "wireless is less reliable because it doesn't go over a wire" is just annoying nonsense. It is all unreliable crap, pick your poison, and enjoy it, but stop kidding yourself with this belief that land lines are somehow magically more reliable than their wireless counterparts. Each carrier has managed to find some aspect of their network that is just god awful, be it line provisioning issues, frequency conflicts, or the ever popular incompetent guy running the switch problem, something about them all sucks ass.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
I am getting old enough and affluent enough to the point where I don't care about the few extra bux a month it cost me to keep my land lines, vs going all cable voip. God knows they ask me to switch every month.
I just want to be sure that when I call 911 for my heart-attack, I get a connection.
Sooner or later there will be a "test case" and the God-damned lawyers will sort it out, "for sure".
Until then, "whatever".
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Mod parent up. So true. Cellphones sound like shit.
... specifically at the socioeconomic numbers. The article mentions how hard it is to survey people with only cell phones (being left out of polls, and such), and then cites the study of households indicating that people with only cell phones are disproportionately lower income - more than just age would account for.
How accurate is this? (I obviously need to go find the original survey). I know my own circle of friends - perhaps thirty people, all mid-20s, all professionals with good incomes and mixed race, and I can't think of a single person who has a landline. Maybe we're all on the cutting edge of pacific northwest young-adult culture, but the survey numbers from this study seemed way low.
--------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
As a landline phone company employee, I only have one because I get free phone and discounted DSL. The only time I use it is when my mom or grandma calls.
Yes the company has seen the writing on the wall and is putting up wireless internet towers and installing underground fiber in new subdivisions. It is also (in some areas) allowing customers to have DSL without also having phone service, due to said writing.
The problem with DSL is that it maxes out at around 20mb bandwidth, which is nowhere near enough for HD TV and not even good enough for reliable non-HD TV. Its good for cheap reliable high speed internet but in ten years 20mb will be considered slow to everyone but our grandmas.
I've never gotten one. I've had Verizon for about 6 years.
I'm not interested in being available all the time, or talking while driving, eating, or whatever. People who need to contact me have my work and home numbers and can leave a message if I'm not there.
While I'll agree cell phones can be useful, their (general) necessity is overrated.
Now stop TXTing on my lawn!
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Maybe you U.S.-North Americans should put down the fluoridated water & poisoned, nutrient-free food and do something about your situation.
I live in Europe, and from here, have seen the North American infrastructure get more like a third-world region than any other description. Your basic services are unregulated and privatised to the most connected bidder - the true tune the politicians play is how much they can get their greed fed through bribes. The propaganda has you talking in circles while the wealth of capital, human and otherwise, has been drained directly under your feet - excepting for a percent of the population, who have their landlines under their feet, immune to storms.
This comes from a guy with a site named "Future Power (R)"? (R)? Jeez...
Youngsters who have grown up with technology don't expect reliability anymore. Just ask your average windows user. Crashes, outages, dropped calls...all expected behaviors. Cell phones are reliable enough.
Hey, I like rotary dial phones and I recently installed one in the kitchen of my house.
Then again, I'm also a relic of the telecommunications industry.
I can really see a receptionist who runs a 200-line switch being able to switch to a cell without hassle. And yeah, most of us don't need a landline...oh wait, the internet, we might need a line for that. What unmitigated wank.
sentences just get guessed from context?
This sig is false.
Mine was $30 including $30 of talk time. I think it costs me about $8 a month at the moment (I don't use the phone much :)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
I have a landline phone precisely because it's cheaper than any cell phone plan I can get, so why do cell phones appeal to low-income customers? Also, I have yet to find a cell phone plan that works like I want: I pay for minutes as I use them, just like a traditional landline phone. I don't talk on the phone much at all, so even the typical cheapest cell plan, at ~300 minutes and $30/month, is a huge waste for me. Thus, cell phones are out of the question until either a) they offer the service option I want, b) are more economical than landline phones, preferably both. And no, I'm not over 30. I'm 22.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
These comments are scary reading. Where I live the landline basically died 5 years ago already.
Excuse me, but(!), how do I connect up my DSL/FiOS without a land-line? POTS is just a free extra after that.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Well, actually this isn't that hard. I know Avaya has a feature called EC500 and I would assume other PBX systems have similar. It basically lets you forward all calls from a given station to a cell phone or whatever other number you want. The phone number that appears on your device is the number that is calling your "desk phone" (extension, station, whatever) and being forwarded to you, so you still see your boss's number. Or there's always VOIP clients too, which to the receptionist would still appear as a normal station on the PBX. She'd have no real idea what was on the other end. It would really not be much hassle at all. This is the beauty of modern phone switches which can support a lot of different types of distributed endpoints while still appearing as one centralized system when need be.
and to be a bit more precise, you don't necessarily need a landline for internet either. I would suspect you have more companies doing similar to my friend's mortgage company, where they all just have a 3G cellular card. Granted it's a very small company. Large companies have economies of scale to lower costs for infrastructure and more people to control which requires more standardization. Little companies could probably give everyone a Blackjack or Treo with an unlimited data plan and not worry too much about land lines at all other than reliable faxing.
No, I'm not a spy--a writer. I conduct phone interviews pretty often for freelance articles, and though I'm sure the throngs can find many a way to record a conversation from a cell phone, I don't trust anything other than my wiretap to record calls at the exact moment I need to conduct an interview.
Other than that, though, it would make financial sense to go cell-only. I pay USD$40/mo -- and that includes all taxes/fees -- for all of the minutes, texts and mobile Web I need, and I don't have to fret about long distance calls. That's already about the amount I'd pay for a landline with long distance, and that doesn't include 1) free personal voice mail, 2) options like caller ID/call waiting/etc, 3) mobility and 4) mobile Web use. And I don't know what everyone else's deal is with call quality--my phone is crisp as the dickens both ways AND allows me to use a convenient headset.
Until scientists scare me off with definitive links to cancer, I'll continue to grow the tumors on the right side of my head with this Sanyo phone of mine...
I live in Finland and frankly I do not know anyone younger than 55 that has a landline phone subscription. These days the only thing connected to the wall is either ADSL (you do not need a landline subscription for that here) or RJ-45 (in the newer apartment buildings etc.) Heck, neither of my parents have a landline. These days only old people and businesses have them.
911.
Until cell phone service is line powered like land lines, I'm not cutting the land line for time when the power goes out. Call me silly and old fashioned, but if the power goes out there may be a darn good reason for me to call 911.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Just give me a Cell phone and a high-speed internet connection. I keep waiting for service providers to make plans that only bundle those options. A land line phone is mostly a pain in the ass. No telemarketers bother me now that I am cell only.
Party at O'zorgnax's Pub! Buy me a Slurmtini aye?
This post is a perfect occasion to read http://dynamics.org/Altenberg/MED/CELL_PHONES/6039 .pdf .
The only reason I keep a phone line is because I prefer DSL.
I've been burned by poor quality service from COX too many times in the past.
I think laws should be put into place such that I don't need a phone line if all I want is DSL.
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
You were modded unfairly. You've pretty much hit it. They can't handle the truth. I'm watching from the outside, and that's exactly the way I and many others see it also. Crumbling, extremely fragile infrastructure accompanied by corrupt government, getting more so by the week. Authoritarian airlines with deteriorating service and nasty "let them eat cake"* attitude. Any complaints will put you on the no fly list, or at the very least subject to more extensive frisking. And just wait to see what happens to cell phone prices when the landline option is gone. They don't seen to notice though and will be voting for more of the same in 08. I've been speculating over the last few months that they like the abuse. Serious sadomasochism action going on there. "Just relax and enjoy it" is what they tell the victim. Makes me feel all sexy an' stuff. Kinda like "sitting on a big hand".
...the fluoridated water & poisoned, nutrient-free food...
That could very well be it. I was thinking it was the soda pop with the associated sugar and caffeine overdose, but that stuff is consumed worldwide, so you might have something there.
*If the SOBs would only serve some.
What?
3-way conversations normally you just to with a speaker phone, which most cellphones have. Works pretty well, especially since it isn't that usual that you'll need a 3 way conference. Also, you can simply call and conference in the other cellphone, same as you'd do at an office with multiple lines.
For guests it generally isn't a problem since nearly everyone has a cellphone these days. I've never had someone ask to use my phone, they just get theirs out and use that. In the event I did have a guest that didn't have a cell, well they could use mine. It's not coded to my DNA or anything, they can use it as well as any other phone.
Phone home devices, you'd probably need a landline for but then, I don't have any of those and there don't seem to be many. Most things these days, to they extent they need to check something, will do it online. That it not a problem as I do have high speed Internet.
Really, it isn't hard to just have a cellphone if you want to go that way. Not saying it is the only way to go, but there's just not a real problem.
No, you still need a landline for ADSL. What, also use it to make phone calls with? Only if you count VOIP :-)
Cell phones are nowhere near as reliable as land lines ... in the US. Here in Sweden it's vice versa, on the other hand. Cell towers are run on diesel backups when there's been a storm and the landline is cut and we have cell coverage over everything but the extreme desolated mountain areas and out at sea (!) - where there are no landlines either.
it's in my head
With several kids, 911 was important. For that reason (and quality), voip was out. that left us cable and qwest. Both sux, but in the end, qwest still beats comcast. So traditional phone bill. Considering that our verizon connection is spotty and comcast has far too many outages here, qwest was the better choice.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Analogue phones are extremely low bandwidth. Like 4kHz. Really, not kidding. It's just analogue audio, and not very high quality at that. To eliminate any interference, DSL upstream starts at 25kHz and goes up to 138kHz, downstream is 138kHz up to 1104kHz. So if you totally eliminated the voice and used its spectrum, and you assumed that you get total efficient use out of it, you get like 18% more upstream.
... but with time I have switched the opposite way. Now I use the landline whenever possible, and my mobile (cell) phone only for emergencies (and texting).
Why? you may ask.
The reason is that mobile phones are so unreliable. All the mobile phones I have had:
* Provide poor sound quality. Either it sounds like I'm yelling or nobody can hear me because it sounds muffled (and vice versa). Plus the sound is tinny and compressed, not pleasant for long conversations.
* Horrible reception (in areas of my flat there is no reception for my mobile)
* Sometimes a call just fails half way through (even with perfect reception on both ends), most of the time the phone keeps cutting out, so you miss letters, words and sometimes whole sentences.
* Sometimes I don't even receive a call. People call me on my land line and say that they have been trying to reach my mobile for ages. My mobile does not ring, it does not even mention I have a missed call in such situations (it would tell me eventually, like a few hours later). And yes, I have good reception in these situations.
Not to mention the phones themselves are unreliable:
* I cannot rely on my mobile to always be working. Its just so complex that it is prone to crashing every now and then. I don't remember the last time I had to check my landline to see if the phone was still responding.
* Battery life. I sometimes have long conversations. Its nice not to worry about running the battery down. Or not finding out that the reason nobody can call you is because your battery ran down without your knowledge.
Other reasons:
*Mobile phones are expensive. If I break a landline headset. I can buy a new one cheaply. Mobiles cost a lot of money (unless you get a contract which gives you a phone for free or cheap, but then the monthly bill will be more expensive then my current mobile bill and landline combined).
*I always know where my landline headset is, because it stays in one place. Rather then digging around while my mobile rings incessantly (But this is just my disorganization rather than a problem with my phone).
These are the experiences I had with many different mobile phones on many different networks. The only thing that has stayed the same is that I live in the UK. Maybe the infrastructure here is just a P.O.S (wouldn't surprise me, most of the infrastructure here sucks, from the rail to broadband). The only advantage is that calls to other mobiles are cheaper for me then from a landline (because all my friends just use mobiles).
I'm not saying that there is not a place for mobile phones (I do like mine for the mobility, texting and the ability to talk to people out of the house). But I still believe landlines are better and will use them whenever possible, at least until some of the above issues are ironed out.
And no, I am *not* over 30.
here in the uk if you want broadband you pretty much have to either go with a provider using BT lines (i'm sure i heared some rumors about them starting to offer ADSL without phone but i don't know of any easy way to actually get it) or if you are lucky enough to live in a cabled street virgin media (who right now do seem to be offering broadband seperately at a reasonable price but in the past the cablecos that became them were not generally known for doing so, also thier phone service includes free basic cable TV).
Its really not in a telcos interests to sell you DSL without phone. It doesn't take up any more physical lines to your house to give you DSL and phone than to give you just DSL or just phone and i very much doubt putting dialtone on a line costs much.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I pay BT (British Telecom, AKA Bastard Tossers) GBP25 a month for my DSL. To get DSL (from prety much anyone), I have to pay GBP10 a month for a phone service I never use, to - you guessed it- BT. BT are still, to all intents and purposes, a monopoly. (Yes, I did ask them if I could go onto the "light user scheme" or similar, and was told nope.) (And that's before I moved house and they started taking an extra £2 a month - while dropping my bandwidth allowance from 20GB/mo to 6.) It's a fucking scam.
Interesting.
Ignoring the hype, the one big advantage of landlines (in California, at least), is that the landlines tend to be battery-backed-up, whereas cell phone towers seem to die whenever there's a power failure (I hope this is changing, though). This can be important, here in earthquake country (although, admittedly, I wouldn't expect landlines to last more than an hour or two after a major disaster).
Cell coverage is also best in the major metropolitan areas, and spotty outside, due to the large geographical area covered by California.
All telcos should be government run.I know everyone thinks voip is great but we all need a stable secure system that we can depend on.
My wife works for local Canadian telco that used to be government run. It was stable, rates were reasonable and most importantly,when you called 911 or 411 you got a knowledgable employee that had been with the company for years that could tell you any small pissant little town or burg or street you needed,especially in an emergency.
Now with privatizing and layoffs and voip competition, 411 has been sold to some company that probably doesn't even know where Canada is let alone what town your from.911 has been transfered too.
What I worry about with voip and the different cell providers, is what happens in the event of a real emergency? I'm talking about a natural disaster or major event
Is there a voip operator or cell operator you can call or are you going to run to your landline only to find no one there?
I rent in London; because of this I have no control over the landline, and use the mobile for all my phone needs.
I've recently been telling off a company I deal with as they, along with most UK companies, have only special 08xx numbers for their customer service departments. Now, in Britain, the 08xx number may be free to landlines (as in 0800) or charged at special rates, both lower and higher (0845 and 087 numbers). At any rate, these are not ordinary local numbers, and CANNOT be dialled from overseas (as anyone who has booked with EasyJet and tried to cancel from France has discovered).
Now get this: in the UK, even though most customer service companies use 08xx numbers, they are NOT included in the mobile phone "minute" packages. Instead they are charged in addition to whatever minute entitlements the mobile phone user has.
I simply refuse to call most company customer service lines because I'm not prepared to pay extortionate rates for what is otherwise a free (or lower-cost) call from a landline.
Sigh; the UK is really messed up.
Completely offtopic, but I predict that one of the two main parties in the US will be replaced within a decade. I suspect it will be the Republicans, and I fear they will be replaced by the Libertarians. Lookup the history of politics in the US, it has happened many times before.
Free beer is never free as in speech. Free speech is always free as in beer.
and as far as battery issues are concerned there is just no comparison
Until I read this, I thought "true" was as true as any statement could be. You have constructed a statement that I evaluate to be much truer than just "true." In addition, you've provided evidence that depth is orthogonal to truth.
If I could get high speed internet in Spain with no landline, I would get rid of my landline, but I am required to have it for DSL here, and cable internet is not available in my building.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Landline Holders Increasingly Older
So that explains the grey hair I found this morning! It's my damn landline.
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
Holy retrotech, batman!
Let me guess, this is stats on US?
In Finland about 40% of households HAVE "regular" phone these days. And for the record, I have ADSL and no, I don't have to pay for an useless phone line to get it.
In order to have (A)DSL service on your landline you must have an active phone service. These days it's not so bad as many companies provide both phone and ADSL as a discounted package.
Two things:
1) Sodas use High Fructose Corn Syrup, not sugar. Sugar would be a lot better! Also, diet sodas have a HUGE market.
2) Caffeine has a number of beneficial effects on the body.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
That's all.
I can understand people with cell phones not wanting to pay for land lines. What I can't understand is with all of this new technology.. CDMA*, UMTS..etc Cell phones still use crappy low bit rate codecs which sound like crap. (See EVRC, GSM and 13k) What makes it worse is when people use bluetooth headsets which over a perfect channel sound like crap because of the low bit-rate encoding... but when combined with a cell phone push the envelope from sounding bad to plain not being understandable at all. I talk to people from all over the world every day and voice quality has continued to errode stedaily over the years. Combined with accent/language problems it really stinks sometimes. I would much rather have a real phone system than a fragmented untrustworthy POS the PSTN appears to be devolving into thanks in large part to VoIP and Wireless phones. IMHO cell phones would be fine, except for crappy codecs, radio/tower reliability and totally broken encryption. I've been through several hurricanes and had the lights go out for about a week on several occasions. Fallen trees/power lines right down the street... never once did our land line ever go out.
Maybe you should move out of the third world.
Honest questions here. When I was younger people would call my house to see if I wanted to hang out. That's how they got in contact with me, the home phone.
1. What do parents with cellphones do in that situation?
2. Are all called filtered through the parents now to get to the kids?
3. Do their kids answer their parent's cellphone?
4. Do their friends now have to have both parent's cellphone numbers to make sure they can get through to the one with their friend at the time?
5. When is it time to get your kids a cellphone for themselves?
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra
the rest of the world welcomes the US to the 1990's!
Your competing systems seriously held back your adoption of wireless. When I left the states in 2000, hardly anyone I knew had a mobile phone. When I got to Europe, almost everybody had them, even the wrinklies.
need a free COBOL editor for Windows?
Yes, I'm over 30 (36 to be exact) and I don't have a cell phone. I don't have a need for it. Landline quality is better and it's always there, working when it needs to be. When I leave my house, it's to run errands or to get away from it all. If I have a cell phone to take with me, then I'm not getting away from anyone or anything.
My landline can adjust the volume, work up to 100 feet away from its base, and, if the power goes out, I have another phone jacked in that requires no power for it to work. While many people enjoy cell phones, I've found that I don't have a need to be constantly attached to a communication device. I prefer to enjoy being away from home and not being bothered by life's interruptions.
If you follow this type of logic, one could also conclude that having blue hair or blue pills makes you more likely to use landlines.
For us the last straw was when the phone company wouldn't send out a tech unless we were willing to foot the bill if the line in the apartment proved defective - regardless of the fact that we had just paid the day before to have the damn thing *installed*. Good-bye TelWest - hello Sunrocket and pay-as-you-go cellphones. That was two years ago. We have 911 and mobility on the cells, VOIP for unlimited long distance with easy blocking of (most of) those annoying telespammers. It has nothing to do with age or wealth per se. We're definitely over 30 and we could certainly afford to give those Baby Bell SOBs more of our money but we choose not to and because we are aware of the technological alternatives.
I too spend less than 30 min/mo on the phone, but I'm not spending over a dollar a minute to do it.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Very American viewpoint actually. I have lived in Finland and India and have visited the US a couple of times. The problem with the wireless networks in the US is that they are expensive and the tariff plans are inconvenient. Charging the customer for incoming calls when in the home network only happens in the US as far as I know. I get a feel that the service providers do not intend to the cellphone to be the primary connectivity channel for the consumer -- they want the consumer to have a cellphone as a supplement to the landline.
As opposed to that situation, in the third world, a large number of people have actually bypassed the landlines to get themselves a mobile phone, as have I. It also makes a lot of financial sense since GSM/CDMA being a mature technologies, can be deployed with a fraction of the copper which would be required for a PSTN. This dramatically cuts down the network deployment time and cost which suits the third world just fine.
In the developed world, as in Finland, all the existing copper is used for DSL. The primary connectivity device is the GSM phone.
As regards the significant volume of comments vis-a-vis the voice quality of cellphones, I do admit that the air interface is not physically capable of producing CD quality sound, but sadly, neither is the normal landline. In all honesty, the difference of quality is minimal. Bad quality of sound on wireless phones at most times is not because of the technology, but because of network coverage. If the service providers are good enough, one will not face a problem with voice quality. I have not used a CDMA network in the US but have used the GSM networks, and I have to admit that the quality of GSM coverage in the US is not very impressive. The signal strength in many parts of the suburbs are rather bad.
All in all I somehow think that the wireless people in the US are in cahoots with the landline people and actually do not want the cellphone to replace the landline in the US, hence the problems.
because around where I am land lines require credit checks and a stable address (duh on the last part). There used to be "services" that would get you a land line regardless of your credit. Basically you paid them a horrendous fee and they got the line on their name for you.
Cell phones are handed out without so much of any check other than your breathing and you can make the initial fee.
Finally, there is societal pressure that some low income groups subcumb to that makes having a cell phone, and using it in public, a must have item. Now with wireless mics (bluetooth) I see an increasing number of people with these devices who you can tell by appearance, car, location, that they don't make squat but are buying into the status symbol thing.
Frankly I think a lot of the 20s and even some 30s have cell phones only because it still confers some type of "status" to them
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
It's not just sodas that have HFCS. I bought some jam in the US, it tasted like shit. When I looked at the label HFCS was the first ingredient. Co-incidence?
What are these benefits of caffeine you speak of? As far as I know you're better off having never touched caffeine than having a good slug of it very morning.
In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
I live in Finland and here it is more of a norm to get only cell phone service. I'm turning 28 and I have never owned a landline. First cell phone I got in 1999 and reason for not wanting a landline was that it was more expensive than cell phone service. Thing is that in Finland it does not cost you a cent to receive phone calls on cell phone, only calling out costs. Same is with landline, but the 'installation' price of a landline was prohibitive at the time (currently it's not that bad, previously they were charging quite a hefty sum of money for just connecting your house hold on the grid, even if you already had wires going out from your house to the phone company's box). Still today it is cheaper to get a cell phone as you can choose to not to pay any per month costs, only pretty competitive per minute charge (around 6c per minute) and usually you get some 'free' calling time with it.
Also the coverage of cell phone is excellent in Finland, most of the time you can call with your cell phone in the middle of the woods. For example, my father uses cell phone while hunting to keep in touch with the other hunters in his group. And service breaks on cell phone service is usually happening only when the cell phone network gets overloaded, ie. too much users in the same place. For example some times it is hard to call or receive calls in a big concert or some other event where a lot of people come from out of town. The new 3G (aka UMTS) network is not so good, and usually it is better to use 2G network as your primary network here.
Also we don't have to get a landline phone for broadband either. Usually the wires for the phone line are installed in every house and those are used for the broadband service, but no requirement is that you need to get a phone with it, so most that don't already have a landline leave that out. Currently the new houses build in my area are fitted with fiber instead of copper lines, as the number of landlines are dwindling and the core competence of local phone companies has shifted to offering broadband services.
I live in The Netherlands, and mobile service here has been pretty much perfect for the last couple of years. Not actually having service is extremely rare (generally only happens in closed metal buildings or elevators).
:)
My experience in the US however in that regard is quite horrible. Even if you manage to get connectivity, the quality is so far below useful that you can just as well use a carrier pigeon.
Most European countries have excellent coverage, and pricing is quite good as well. I'd guess that the penetration of mobile services over here is much better than in the US. (In Finland for example, the average mobile phones per user is larger than one
And I haven't had a landline for the last 6 years or so, and never missed it. Although for that matter I don't have a TV either, so I might just be weird.
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
1) During a recent 1-week power failure, my neighbors needed my old-fashioned landline to make a phone call since they suffered from some combination of unavailable cell service and/or dead batteries.
2) Landlines show your location to the dispatcher if you call 9-1-1 while cell phones show the address of the cell tower you're using at that moment or your billing address or both.
3) There is no risk of brain tumors or cognitive effects with landlines.
4) Landlines can be used with a 'dial-up' connection for internet access.
I'm getting rid of the landline for good next week.
There are numerous reasons for a landline besides the obvious...
Fax Machine (yes, they still do come in handy...If I need to send off a hardcopy on the fly)
TiVo/DirectTV
Children at Home (who don't need cellphones until they can pay their own bills)
A big factor though, is a contact point for credit card companies, banks, public service, co-workers, any subscription services, and basically anybody else who you find a need to have contact with, but don't want disturbing you when you're out to dinner, on a date, or anywhere/anything else when you don't want to be available for calls from any but a select group of people.
The whole rest of the world has moved to GSM (well, apart from Japan, who are as always a couple of generations of technology ahead). It's time you left your ancient analogue mobile phones behind, and while you're at it you might like to try using the same frequencies as everyone else.
Listening to Americans talking about poor mobile phone service is like watching reruns of 1970s comedy shows.
I don't know about you, but my landline phone has a switch for turning the ringer off.
Chris Mattern
Most of the comments I've seen have to do with quality, reliability, and costs... I'd say that much of this depends on location. It is my perception that mobile phone technology is still significantly further developed in Europe than in North America.
My company decided last year to go completely mobile (drop the PBX in favour of a software switchboard + mobile phone). I think we've had problems with the service in the office once, where the provider had to reboot one of their masts. We still had a signal from a farther mast, though. It's way cheaper and much more flexible.
Also last year, we consolidated our home installations so all of the landlines were replaced with VoIP. No problems here either (and it's a sales unit, so the users aren't particularly savvy). The provider there has made a great package of DSL + VoIP that just works.
Maybe the required infrastructure development just hasn't happened in the US yet?
I get some of those on my landline too. They're easily dealt with: "Fuck off and die. Thanks! Bye now!"
-b.
I hate the collapse of manners that has accompanied their arrival - people chatting on the phone whilst being served in a shop, taking calls in restaurants, talking about nothing on my commute ("I'm on the train") and so on. If people were more considerate in their use, I'd be more keen on getting involved.
I also value my private time and don't feel a need to be contactable 24/7.
Finally, being slightly risk averse, I don't like having a small microwave transmitter next to my brain for prolonged periods of time.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
I still use the actual physical cell phone as a PDA. I did not like paying $50 for something I only ever really used at home. I didn't like using it when driving and don't like people who do. I have a job where a cell phone isn't a good idea. I never road trip. And it got terrible reception where I lived. Why pay $50 for something that blows connectivity wise from where I live? I reverted to a $20 a month landline. I feel no need to go back to a cell.
That's all it is. Cell phones are a necessity and land lines aren't. It has little to do with the technology. If cell phones were expensive and land lines were cheap, which they aren't, young people would be forced to give them up as well.
The phone company is actually forcing us to switch over to the more easily maintained cell network because it offers them higher profit margins. That is the REAL driving cause behind the disappearance of land lines.
And find out that unlimited plans have a limit. MCI Neighborhood is 7000 minutes a month I think. Try doing that with a cell phone plan.
I am so glad I have never owned a cellphone.
It's bad enough we have a landline in the house. One of my life goals is to someday live in a house with *no* telephone. For the time being, though, we do have a landline. Actually, it's funny the article summary should mention rotary, since we have a rotary phone hanging on the kitchen wall. It's not the only phone, of course, just the oldest one we've got. We also have three touch-tone phones of various vintages in three other rooms, which as far as I'm concerned is *entirely* too many. The newest is even cordless, which naturally means it's the one that doesn't work when the power goes out. There's progress for you.
As for cellphones, I cannot imagine wanting one. Nothing people might want to call me about is so all-fired urgent that it can't wait until I'm home. I'm just a computer guy, not an EMT or something. It can wait. It's not like I'm out wandering around town and country all that much anyway. I do occasionally go for walks, but when I do it's precisely because I want to get away from chattering people and other such distractions and be able to hear myself think for a while. Taking a phone along with me is the last thing I'd want.
Yeah, call me a wrinkled old curmudgeon. I'm all of 20 years old. (Okay, okay, that's actually 0x20. Still.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Cell phones are nowhere near as reliable as land lines, and all VOIP phones are worse.
never used a real Voip Setup have you.
Many big businesses use voip, when you call long distance you are using Voip.
Voip over a non consumer level throttled and latency plagued internet connection is rock solid.
Justbecause you tried voip on your DSL or Cable does not mean that is voip's problem. it's your ISP that is either intentionally screwing with Voip traffic (comcast) or has that kind of traffic throttled, or you simply dont have the outgoing bandwidth to support the call + other traffic. I have installed at least 35 different Voip systems at businesses and they all work perfectly. Hell even a slow T1 line from an office to another supports Voip over it far better than DSL and cablemodems at 10X the bandwidth rating simply because there is near zero latency.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
On Mother's Day, my mom was asking about how much I pay for my cell phone bill and how many telemarketing calls I receive on a daily basis. She seemed truly interested in ditching the landline. So I had to remind her that without a landline the security system installed in their house will not function properly. Needless to say that ended that conversation. Security systems, such as ADT, require a house to have a landline. So until they change their practices and allow for VOIP or some other telecommunication avenue, the landlines will not be going away.
Here on the Helsinki University of Technology campus the landline service is getting discontinued this year because no one is using it. My parents haven't had a landline telephone service since 2001 either - it's only used for ADSL.
and I still cling to my landline and do not own a cellphone.
However, I really hate the telephone in general. It's intrusive. When someone calls I have to drop what I'm doing to screen the call and then more often than not it's someone that I don't want to talk to. I much prefer e-mail where I can read it at my leisure and get back when and if I have feel like it / have a chance.
I have had a cellphone in the past for work and I admit there are times when it's convenient but I try to minimize those occasions because I can't be a hypocrite. If I reach into my pocket to phone someone while I'm in a grocery store (for example) I have to justify that with the only reason I'm doing it is because IT CAN'T WAIT. I find those situations to be extremely rare, and do everything that I can to keep them so. Because if I were on the recipient of such a call (which I often am) I would be annoyed.
I'm all for instant communication. If it weren't for the Internet I wouldn't have a job. But the nice thing about other forms of instant communication is that you can tend to them at your convenience, block the overly annoying and intrusive ones etc. I know someone will respond with "well you can turn a cellphone off". Yup, you can. Point is mine would always be turned off.
This is just silly. How many rural places do you go where there is no cel coverage. In a town that has maybe 100 residents, you think cel companies are going to pay to put up towers when there are already physical circuit?
Just remember - if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
This seems like a very good idea on the surface. But has anyone stopped to consider what type of a culture the US is slowly becoming? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but we are looking to stay mobile and to be able to travel light. What does this point to in the long run for our society?
http://timcol6.freehostia.com/
I calculate that around 2012, nearly all folks will be using POTS, if this excerpt from Wikipedia is correct:
"The last solar maximum was in 2001, and on 10 March 2006 NASA researchers announced that the next cycle would be the strongest since the historic maximum in 1958 in which northern lights could be seen as far south as Mexico."
Aren't we just one or two Coronal Mass Ejections from having all our satellites (and cell service among others) go kerflooey?
Perhaps they're more affluent because they don't pay big bucks for a new phone every year[1] and however much a pop to add a new ringtone or transfer a file.
[1] Yeah, sure you can get one for free - it doesn't count if it's per month, right?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
Almost 75% of the under-30 crowd view a landline as a necessity.
Since we still don't know the cancer effects of cell phones... and since there's a possibility that cell phones might be related to the disappearance of honey bees (studies show that bees will avoid a hive if a cell phone is placed near it) and the colony collapse disorder, maybe people shouldn't be so quick to drop their land lines.
Add on to that the fact that you have a limited # of minutes per month, you have outages, and you are SOL in a power failure... I think my generation is being foolish to not have a regular phone in addition to their cell phone.
Eggs in one basket people.
One thing that stuck out to me when I heard it years ago.... With a landline you call a location, with a cellphone you call a person.
I agree, although I don't see the correlation between cell use and lower incomes, etc. If anything, I'd think more and more young professionals would be solely using mobile phones. Out of my group of friends, I can't think of anyone who still has a land line, and my boss just gave up his to go entirely mobile.
The way I see it, the use of a landline for me is outdated. People are calling *me*, not my home. Why should I keep it at the house then? If I don't want to be bothered with it, there's no reason I need to answer my cell phone, I'll just let it go to voicemail. But if it's important (as assumed by me via caller ID), I'll pick up. The key is to not become a slave to your technology.
I'm 27 and have been using a cell phone as my primary phone for probably the last 6 years or so. It's made sense as I move from place to place. Now that we're looking to get a house, both of us have our own cell phones and we don't really see the point of getting a land line, unless it was needed for DSL. Luckily, we have the cable monopoly available.
Really, the only reason I can think of having a "house phone" for would be once we start having kids. Having a number that can be reached by someone outside of us would probably become necessary. Or further down the road, we wouldn't want their friends calling either of our numbers, so we'd need something else. But would it be a landline? I dunno....hopefully by that time the wireless landscape might be different, but I'd probably just consider adding another line to the wireless family plan, or looking at something like Skype for the home.
Just my $.02.
I don't really understand why you are saying this is nonsense. Do you not think that there are actual people out there living with a cell phone as their only means of voice communication? I can tell you that as soon as I got my first cell phone in college, I never used my land line in my dorm room, ever. And once I moved in to an off campus house with my friends, we never got a land line because we all had cell phones. And, all of my fraternity brothers who lived in our fraternity house only used their cell phones and did not pay for land lines even though every room was wired for phone access. And now that I am out of college, I can tell you that the same reasons hold true for every one of my friends and me. Having a cell phone and a land line for personal use is rediculous because of the added cost and the fact that the person now has 2 phone numbers, and 1 is never going to get used. In fact, I was going to get DSL when I got my own place out of college, but then I was informed by the DSL company that it would take 2 weeks for internet access to start because I'd have to wait 1 week for the telephone to work, and then another week for the DSL to work. When I heard that, I literally told the person on the phone, "Oh, no thanks then. I'll have cable internet this weekend."
As for businesses going completely wireless, I think that will never happen, especially at my company and I'd assume other companies are the same. In my office, cell phones do not work. Period. I have a cubicle right next to a window, and I barely get reception if i leave my cell phone sitting on the sill. Also, I work in construction, and I can tell you that Nextel is huge in the industry. As such, every contractor I talk to has one and they all have crappy service. They always drop calls and I always get to hear "Please hold while the nextel subscriber is located" when I make a call to them. I can only assume that the walkie talkie aspect of the Nextel service is what attracts so many contractors to get it, as I can see that being useful for coordinating things on site.
All the cell phone plans suck. First of all, I don't want a phone from the service provider for various reasons (avoiding lock-in, ability to change when I want, getting one to my liking). I'll buy my own phone and then choose a provider. Second, I don't want term plans. I want to just sign up, get competitive per minute rates, and pay month-to-month. I don't even mind pre-paying. But the pre-pay services now are overly expensive (it's a plan intended to rape the lower economic classes).
As soon as a cell phone service provider figures out they will be very competitive with a "plan" that provides the lowest, or near lowest, per minute rates, reliable coverage, and no term period for those who "bring your own phone" (BYOP), then I'd be ready to cut the cord. In fact, I may well just cut the cord and not get any cell service at all since everyone who does call I don't want to talk to or listen to anyway.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
What about brain tumors for all these smart under 30 folks?
I don't speak on the telephone much. I prefer to either email/chat or meet my friends in person. My work allows me to communicate with email and chat as well. The pay-as-you-go phones were irritating with the requirement to keep track of minutes, and the minutes-per-month plans were way overpriced for what I needed. I don't give a shit about some crappy camera on my phone, or the ability to play a few MP3s when I own a good camera and a 40G iRiver.
My wife and I cancelled our cellphones a few months ago and have been saving at least $80 a month. A year of savings is going to let us go on vacation for a few more days next year.
The service is overpriced, and the gimmicks they use to justify that price do not appeal. I guess I'm a freak, but I'm a freak with $960 more to spend on vacation next year!
Blar.
Please. I registered and after the two week wait... no more telemarketers. Call and report the violators, they're breaking the law.
Answering machine.
On my land line, I have an answering machine. I screen 98% of my calls.
If you really want to talk to me, leave a message. I also got caller ID
on it.
Telemarketers call all the time. If it is right about dinner time, you
can be certain it is a telemarketer. But they here my answering machine
message and hang up. I get a little kick out of it. I imagine them
saying "Is this guy ever home?"
People that know me, know they have to leave me a message.
When I want to talk to someone in my family, I use the landline because
it sounds much better.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
You have to pay for the service and the phone, then you need to remember to turn the damn thing on and off. Fuck that. I relish the convenience and privacy granted me by my landline. I have no delusions of being so desired that I must have 24x7 connectivity.
Blar.
You must be a non-USian, because we have a do-not-call list here. If you sign your ph# up for it, the only unsolicited calls you will get are 1) politicians (of course), 2) companies with an "existing business relationship" with you (that's interpreted loosely sometimes), 3) charities, and 4) pollsters.
l t107.shtm
More information, for the ignorant USians among us:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/a
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
How does that work?
Somehow I can't see that conversation happening (outside of Dilbert).
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
I have a land-line and a cell phone in my office and at my home. Having a cell phone is a no-brainer, it allows me to communicate where ever I am. However, cell phones are notoriously fickle, and there are quite a few dead spots in my office and in my house. Therefore, a land line is absolutely necessary for business calls (I don't want my clients to think I am cheap) and a pleasure (so I can hear my relatives and loved ones voices clearly). I have had more misunderstandings between myself and clients and loved ones, because of a piss poor cell connection, than any other reason combined. Not to mention, I have a inexpensive plan, and it is cheaper for my cell friends to call my landline, than both of us talk on our cell phones at the same time.
If I could, I'd cut the landline and save some bucks. but my cell phone works so poorly at home that I think that would be a bad idea. it drops calls, a lot. It sounds like people are gargling when when I do have a connection. And this is with the provider with the biggest network.
Come on, when was the last time someone jammed your cellular phone. Its about as likely as someone cutting your phoneline, ie not very.
Personally I almost never use a phone so economically the only thing that makes sense is a pay-as-you-go cellular ($100 canadian per year).
Funny thing about this, as it relates to this discussion, my home security system doesn't use my landline anymore. My alarm company installed a cellular unit into the alarm system. The cellular unit can still be used if the "bad guys" are able to cut the landline, and the cell unit is powered by the battery for the system.
Ramen
the only unsolicited calls you will get are 1) politicians (of course), 2) companies with an "existing business relationship" with you (that's interpreted loosely sometimes), 3) charities, and 4) pollsters.
That helps on the volume, but charities were always the worst of those calls, anyway.
While I primary use my cell phone (as does my wife), we still keep a landline soley for the purpose of business. Bills, stores, everyone other than friends gets the land line number. I've been doing this for a few years and am really happy about the fact that these people aren't calling me on my cell.
-- A cat is no trade for integrity!
If it costs 10x more to make mobile service reliable, and with good call quality, but people still flock to it for convenience, then why pony up the $$? Mobile service in the US sucks. It's overpriced, low quality, and unreliable.
Speaking of this, does anyone know of a make/model of GSM cell phone where you can have it send the call to voicemail or just not ring OR vibrate if the caller ID is not in your speeddial/address list?
I can almost do this on my samsung phone by recording an empty ringtone, setting that as the default and then assinging people in the address book another, real ringtone... but then if I set the phone to vibrate (which it nearly always is for me) all numbers will ring.
People dont get attached to technology they are used too, they get attached to technology that works for them. If there is something better around the corner, people at any age have no problem adapting.
Heres the reality of life that you should understand. It took me a while, but now that im almost 34, im starting to get it.
1) There is much more to life than technology. In fact, the more you enjoy life, the more annoying technology is - such as having to charge a cell phone, or find your phone, or deal with a bad signal. $30 a month for no worries and management of these problems is worth it when you have the money.
2) As you get older, and have money, you compare the technology you have versus the future technology, and what features you will use. Not many 30 yr olds text messaging their BFF JILL. Is it reliable? Can it self charge or something? Thin is great, as it makes it more transparent (in carying around etc).
You become aware of gadgets, marketing schemes and all that crap that you buy into as you upgrade from your 3.6GHZ P4 to your 3.8GHZ.
I used to think old people are herbs and didnt know. I realize now that this is complete ignorance. There is something to be said about a grandma not being bothered to set her VCR and having kids do it. Your not smarter then them; they just view these technology problems as 'your problem', a quality problem of 'your' generation. Spending your time looking for cell plans by the minute, searching for deals every few months etc. is extremely low quality living, an annoyance, wasted time. Most people that have money dont want to be bothered. Think it through!
Then you can tell each charity that calls "don't contact me at this number again" and they're legally obligated to do so.
You should write down their particulars before hanging up, though.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
I just turned 55 last month, my mother was kind enough to inform me on my birthday that I'm now eligible for senior citizen discounts (gee mom thanks for reminding me how close I am to a dirt nap).
But like you, I have no land line. Maybe I'm younger than my years? I live alone, why in the hell would I need more than one phone? The cell phone has "free" long distance while the landline company charges, and half the people I call are long distance. I get enough monthly minutes it might as well be a fixed per-moth cost, and that cost is lower than a landline. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone in my position would have a landline.
My friend Ralph is 86, and he has no land line, either. Yet he has two cell phones! I think the reason he has two is so he can lend one to his whores once in a while.
My mother and her husband have a land line and a cell phone. Seems a waste to me.
My dad has become something of a luddite in his dotage. "I've lived 75 years without one and I don't need one now." I remind him that his late former father in law said the same thing about indoor plumbing, although my uncle put an inside bathroom in Grandpa's house anyway. Dad and his wife refuse to get either a computer or a cell phone, despite the fact that a cell phone would be a lot cheaper than a land line. He says it's because they like to each get on an extension to talk to people.
I think the old man is getting senile. Maybe that's why old farts have land lines? Because they're losing their mental faculties?
-mcgrew
I guess I'm not the typical slashdot user. Both my wife and I have cell phones and we also have a landline that we have no intention of getting rid of. I don't mind when people call either my cell phone -or- my home phone. Yes we get annoying telemarketers, but that's what caller id is for. I get spotty cell coverage at home and feel that having a 100% working phone is a requirement. Switching isn't an option because to have cell phone coverage at work I am forced to use Sprint/Nextel.
I actually *enjoy* having family and friends call to see how I'm doing, or asking if I want to do something. If I'm busy, or can't be disturbed I turn the ringer off. It's really that easy. I also like the convenience of being able to call when I'm in the store to ask if there's anything else I need to get. It certainly saves the effort of a second trip, which is a lot more annoying to me.
Oderint dum metuant
I live in the middle of a major metroplex and when I carry our oncall phone, I can't get crap for bars at my house (WTF?). So *how* am I supposed to get excited about spending hundreds of $$$ on a phone that sounds like crap that I can't use from home?
.... don't want it again.
Not to mention the unknown effects of placing such high radiation right next to my ear. Studys DON'T know the long term effects, but scans DO show that the brain is "hot" on the side where the phone is. And no, not "hot" temperatures, hot as in active somehow.
I have had cancer once
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Most opinion polls are run on phone#s. Most of those surveyed are on landlines, because most listed phone#s and answered phones are landlines, not to mention their geographical cross-referencability.
So therefore most opinion polls are increasingly biased towards older, richer people. Who tend to be Republicans, even though the country is tending dramatically away from being Republicans.
--
make install -not war
Don't forget us older 'early adopters'. I'm an old (55), wizened technology freak and I've been landline-free for more than a decade. Dial-up Internet service was my only reason for having a landline for the last three years or so I had one. Once broadband became available, I dumped my landline and never looked back.
:)
PS I also first got online with Compuserve at 300 baud, when it cost $15/hr. plus long-distance charges.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
1. For my home security system
2. For my DSL
Until I can get around those two requirements, I will have to keep my landline active.
(Score:0, Flamebait)
YES! It was designed to inflame(engorge?) passion, and that other thing. After all, what's dirty, filthy sex without lots of hot, steamy passion? AND, as demonstrated by the powers that be, passion is what gets out the vote. You damn kids should be grateful for the flamebaiters of the world, otherwise you would still dragging ox carts behind you and throwing your poop out into the streets. And you'd like it! Works much better than those silly things like logic and reason. That stuff is boooring. If you want to win at all costs, you must fight fire with fire. You must provoke the instinct. You have to wake up the beast. Kick the dog until he bites back. No, wait, you must offer the nice doggy a treat, then whack him on the head until he submits.
And furthermore, we old farts don't want just landlines, we want our morse code and telegraph back, dagburnit!
Ingrates...
What?
No, its not that they refuse to learn new technology. Its that as you move up the demographic tree you find folks less and less willing to constantly abandon what works simply because something newer and shinier has come along.
Heck, I'm (currently) in my mid-40's, and I didn't stop regularly using my rotary until the mid-late 90's. I bought the phone in the early 80's, and consigned it to storage in the mid 90's... Last year when we bought a new house and need a phone in the garage, I dug it out and plugged it in, and it Just Worked. Meanwhile the average lifespan of the pushbutton phones I am required to have in order to deal with [censored] menus has been under two years.
Charities, political calls, and research are exempt.
Nobody selling for profit is exempt.
I highly doubt you received many telemarketing calls if you were on the list. Be honest.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
If you have a cell phone and a VOIP phone, you are going to have better reliability than if you just have a land phone.
If you compare VOIP+cell to land+cell, both have reliability figures close enough to 100% to be indistinguishable.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I would love to say that Landlines are staying but that is far from reality.
The fact is they have basically ripped out all the copper infrastructure at least here in Southern California and many other places NY,MA, etc...
I work as a general contractor and every new building project I have come across recently residential/industrial there is no copper or landlines being layed as we used to as of 2-5 years ago. You have TWC coming out and doing all VOIP to the structure what was told to me by the foreman.
Every person who transits to work I know usually has to get a cell phone to survive out here and usually these days you get a cellphone number instead of a home line because nobody seems to manage their time right these days; remember how message machines used to be so popular well they are now collecting dust at the stores as you see that section usually gets smaller when you have a mobile message machine.
DSLreports.com usually follows this type of stuff and know more about it than anyone here most of the time.
Specifically a recent article titled 'CLECs Worry About FiOS 'Copper Retirement'
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/83801
Quote from Verizon
Verizon had this to say on the subject to CNET back in 2005:
"Once we install fiber to a home, it stays there. We aren't going to take down the fiber and reinstall copper, but people can still get their single-line, no-frills Verizon phone service over the fiber network for the same amount as the folks still served by copper, if that's what they want. Our FTTP network is likely to be even more reliable than their already-reliable Verizon copper-based phone service."
More discussion at DSLreports to get an understanding of how copper is dying and even ask technicians who worked for companies, anyways the fiber is being laid and the copper is being torn out so you are going from basically copper to fiber(voip) back to copper. So as much as you argue that VOIP is not as reliable I believe the ones who actually operate this seem to know more than you 'most likely'.
Cheers though to all the old school guys who love copper, analog and commodore; but move to the side as the young ones or H1-B take over your jobs and carry the torch.
My wife and I each have cell phones, and we also use Vonage because we make a lot of international calls. I would consider going all cellular, and using something like Skypeout for international calls, but I cannot live with the call quality of cell phones. In particular, the latency is very annoying. I hate saying something, and then waiting with an awkward silence until the other person hears what I said and their response gets back to me:
...
JOE: Hello.
ME: Hey Joe, it's Steve, how 'ya doin'? {awkward silence} I'm calling becau...
JOE: I'm fine. How 'bout yourself?
ME: Good... I'm just getting over a cold but I...
JOE: You said you were calling calling because?
ME: Yeah, I'm calling beau...
JOE: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that you were sick.
You know, these $99-if-you-buy-all-three deals? If you're going to pay $80+ for TV and HSI, why not get landline for another $20?
I was on the list and I was barraged by calls even during the dinner hour. Honestly. My wife would get into yelling matches with them and she even had the manager at one of these places call her several times and curse her out. We got rid of the land line when we moved because there was not any point to it. We only have cell phones now. Having a land line phone is like writing paper checks at the supermarket - its for the elderly. I'm 36 and I don't see any value in having a landline phone. None. We have a kid who is old enough to be home alone sometimes (teen) so we got her a cell phone too for emergencies, etc. Most of the time she wants to communicate with a fiend, it is either via iChat or email.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I am older than you are and I would never waste time upgrading from a 3.6 to a 3.8 GHz P4. When you're older, affluent, and experienced, like me, you'll realize that there is more to life than this. If you can wait another week, the 4.0 GHz stuff will be out.
I'm with you on the food thing, but, what's wrong with fluoridated water? We like nice 'smiles' full of teeth over here.
"Your basic services are unregulated and privatised"
Err...I dunno about that, I've never lived anywhere where the power, cable, and telephone locally were not all regulated. I'd actually wish to see more privatization tried...if there were real competition, it might make for lower prices and better service, but, that's kind of hard with the basic utilities.
But, as for infra-structure....most place I've lived were perfectly fine. Nice roads, good/decent schools, good medical centers throughout the city, police and fire...etc.
It largely depends on the area you live in....for past few years, before and after Katrina, I live in New Orleans or the NOLA area. Now here...well, different story. Roads are horrible, schools are pathetic (but, getting better I think)...much of that tho, was due to corruption that was traditional to the area, and the lack of a tax base here....you had a huge poor population and an even dwindling tax base moving from the city that used to support the 'system'. But, New Orleans is an exception to the rule in MOST things...part of its charm actually. But, at least in other cities in the south, Little Rock, Dallas, Houston, Knoxville, Nashville, etc....I found the infrastructure to be fantastic...so much so that you never notice it. Roads and services are there and so good you take them for granted.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As a 25 year old with a 27 year old wife, who have a rotary telephone hooked up to our landline, I wonder what this says about us...
I myself have a cell phone, but when I'm at home I'd rather use the land-line. Clarity of voice is one important aspect, additionally I sit down and only use the phone. Otherwise you're barely paying attention to the conversation you're having. I hate talk on the cell phone while, say, taking the bus, or (heaven-forbid) driving a car. Too much going on at one time.
As someone else mentioned, I do enough multi-tasking between 7am and 4pm. I don't need that kind of stuff at home.
Also, there's this little known study:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4113989.stm
-- As much as the study reported that the risk was low, they did have to conclude this:
They found that, after being exposed to electromagnetic fields, the cells showed a significant increase in DNA damage which could not always be repaired by the cell.
and that, as far as I'm concerned, is a stone's throw from mutation. Forget our own health; I don't want my wife having a cell phone anywhere near her ovaries.
I remember first getting a cell phone years ago. It was useful for many reasons, and fairly addictive, but was incredibly irritating in that the annoying constant ringing of the house phone now follows me around everywhere I go!
I love the idea of coming home to a house with no bluetooth, no wireless internet and no cellphones, it's too bad I find these things so useful!
fyi, I'm an engineer who deals with Photonics, and electromegnetics is my favourite subject, so I understand this stuff.
but I'm sure we're the exception: I can't believe how people go all bug-eyed when they see our record collection and 2 record players!
There is actually a better solution for telemarketers - Never answer the phone, always let the answering machine pick up all of your calls (also called screening your calls). In my experience telemarketers never leave voice messages. We stopped answering the phone years ago and have not had a single telemarketer call since (we used to get them constantly before that time). All of our friends and family know that we do this, so whenever they call they start off by saying "Hi, it's X, if you're there pickup... okay here's my message..." It has been such a wonderful feeling to not be controlled by our phone (though that urge to drop whatever we were doing and go to pick up the phone as soon as it rings took quite awhile to overcome, it's amazing the sort of addictions we all have that we aren't even aware of until we try to stop doing them.)
What's a POTS phone good for compared to cell phones?
1. free calls in local area (about a 12 mi radius), but you pay long distance for everywhere else
2. don't pay to receive calls
3. somewhat better reliability
4. needed for DSL service
If you already have a cellphone with enough minutes and good signal at home, that takes care of 1-3. Broadband Internet that doesn't need a landline can be hard to find or it could cost as much as DSL + POTS combined.
Everybody in the house has their own cell phone and our house has a wired POTS line that I will not get rid of. From my experience broadband cable (VoIP) service goes out as soon as the power goes out and cell service (including wireless data) dies a couple of hours after the power goes out.
Our cable broadband service doesn't even need a power outage for it to go out. I have never known of the wired POTS line going out in the 15 years that I have lived in this house.
I haven't had a problem with quality of service on my Cell in WA, US ever. We even had the power knocked out for 3 days straight and it still worked fine...
There is a difference between "getting calls" and getting called by telemarketers.
Also, the high school kids who work at call centers have boring jobs. If they get someone who rants and raves like a crazy person, sometimes they flag the number for redial--just to share the fun with the person working next to them.
Calmly saying "don't call this number again" would be effective. Just FYI.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Do young people even know that landlines have better signal quality? I can't imagine accepting the quality of a mobile call for everything. The DSP tail and dropouts drive me nuts sometimes. I often "hand off" a mobile call to my home or office landline (via call waiting) to avoid it.
I know my hearing has degraded as I've aged, but you can't hear missing samples no matter how young your ears are.
A bunbch of old farts I know were pontificating that since a lot of kids (people 25) don't know how their technology works, they just accept whatever limitations they get (like dropouts in your calls, or not being able to copy your music to another device). So, technology marches backwards sometimes, and nobody realizes it doesn't have to.
Tangentially. I have a cell phone bill, car insurance bill, isp bill, but I give them all fake phone number contact information. When I had a landline I was the same. Point: I do not want to be bothered -- ever -- by cold callers, credit card companies' affiliates, etc. Thus they all get fake numbers. Only friends and family get my cell. If I foul up and somehow anyone majorly annoying would get through I'd change cell number.
I wonder:
Does anyone else do this?
Are we a growing set?
Does business care?
Will it one day care?
Do I care they would then care? No! ^_^ | =) | 555
Maybe it's just me, I don't want to be hassled. Perhaps others don't mind, at first, they just complain bitterly later that they are being hounded.
My email contact always works, though, so I give them a chance to reach me directly, somehow other than USPS mail.
Call Quality ? where ? When the radio channels begin to fill, you can (or can't) hear the phone co increase compression to a point of ridiculousness. While they can claim they didn't drop the call, it's so bit-starved that I can barely hear what is going on. Add to that various chops to the call and dropouts, and I save the wire phone for the really serious conversations. I find that my ham radio, or my CB, is often clearer than cell phones. If a guy from the other side of the world is clearer on a fairly simple ham set than my wife from across town, then the company has to do better. OOOh, I forgot...I live in the US where cell phone companies can't be easily changed by sim card.....darn.
I think I reject them out of disgust for all the people I see yapping on them in their cars at freakin' 8am in the morning. If you call me at 8am, somebody better be dead. I'm sure a percentage of these callers are on work related calls, but I think most aren't. Almost everyone I see in their car is on the phone at this time.
There are so many people who spend (what seems to be) their entire lives shouting into a cell phone. Is it really that hard to go a few minutes out of each day without talking? Are these peoples' lives that fascinating that they have to relate each and every detail? Is what they're saying so important that it can't wait for a face to face? And when do they find the time to do new things worth talking about? Cell phone use is clearly an addiction and although I have some pity, it's hard not to look down on an addict. I guess I know I'm old, when I just don't get it. But even when I was young, phone calls were a one minute affair to arrange a meeting. Only chics yapped on and on for hours. Must be a metro thing for the guys.
I am being honest, and frankly don't care if you believe it or not. This was about four or five years ago -- maybe things have changed since then. But the point being, I certainly don't miss my land line.
Besides younger people, lower-income people are also more likely to have cut the cord.
I guess it depends on where you live. I live in Vermont, and my landline costs me ~$35 a month. A single-line cell would be $50 for a bottom-of-the-barrel plan, plus another $20 for a line for my wife.
I'd definitely do it if I had the scratch, though. Not sure how that would effect my having DSL.
do you see the silliness of that argument? a telephone line must be (payed for) connected before any signal will be acknowledged. your life insurance should pay out, even if you haven't payed the premium. why? the insurance comapany owes you nothing unless you uphold your end of the agreement (i know, there are some restrictions and "exceptions") no signal, no transmission, no 911.
personally, i hate cellular phones. i hate dropped calls, voicemail that takes 45 seconds to leave a message (not counting the rings and actually leaving the message), ringing everywhere, babbling nonsense everywhere, people playing with their ring-tones in restaurants and at obscene volumes, people who think they're important because they have a cellular phone... do you want me to go on? i think the cellular phone is one of the worst consumer items ever and wouldn't have one except that i delivered pizza for several years (if you've done it, you understand). the other benefit is that i have many hours of free long-distance in a college town, NO ONE asks for a local number when they move here
problem solution = cellular phone; problem cause = cellular phone >:-(
that being said, i have a landline and will not get rid of it until cellular phones develop better volume control, connections, range/signal, etc. and landlines become overpriced.
"Most places in the world, local calls are 'free'"? Actually, that turns out not to be the case. In the USA and Canada, local calls are unmetered, i.e. included in your monthly line rental charge. But in every other country that I have lived in (Costa Rica, Norway, UK) and most other countries that I have checked (Kenya, France, Japan, Brazil), local calls are charged per call or per unit of time (i.e. per minute or per six seconds). In Germany and Australia, you can get line rental packages that include free unmetered local calls, but lower-priced packages charge you per call or per minute.
What would be so bad about that? Replace a neo-conservative religion-backed party with a fiscally-conservative (anti-big government), socially-liberal (do what you want, as long as it doesn't harm others), religion-neutral party? Sounds good to me.
Hoping for the Greens to replace the Republicans is just dreaming. There's too much conservative sentiment for the system to end up with only psuedo-liberal (Democrat) and socialist (Green) parties.
After seeing the infrastructure for both landlines and cell phones I would rather have one landline at home since they are much more reliable. I seen the Central Office of a several landline carriers and most of their infrastructure is more robust as in power, several physical diverse and redundant connections to and from the CO. I visited the cell sites of several cell carriers and most of them have minimal battery backup and a dual connections that run along the same physical path as the main line. Also I been through emergency situations where I got busy/no signal on my cell phone and I got clear line on my landline.
My Samsung D807 that I have now will not allow me to do this at all, it seems to lack many features that the Razr had. Caveat: I absolutely hated the Razr.
I don't know about you guys but I'm about as tech-freindly as they come and I will not be ditching my land line.
It comes down to this: my land line will allow me to call the cops/ambulance 99.999% of the time.
When mobile phones or voip can match those numbers I'll switch.
Also, mobile phone systems are waaay too over-subscribed. I have NEVER picked up my land-line and failed to make a connection (except for mis-dialing).
In an emergency/disaster situation mobile phone system regularly
also, I can use it as a 56k internet connection of last resort if everything else is dead.
Heck, even during a massive regional power outage I can take my laptop with it's built-in modem and get online for an hour or so.
I enjoy the stammering non-overlapped, halting, jerky conversations on cell phones it is soooo modern. We might as well of gone back to hitting each other the face with sticks.
"HI" - long pause - "hey". "where - WHERE ARE YOU are you at?"
WHAT?
long pause - "you there?" - long pause - "YES"
My cellular providers, both of them, often route calls to voicemail when their networks are too busy.
Both of my cellular providers allow pockets of bad reception near populated areas.
Agreed: Fiber land lines are more reliable than old copper land lines.
The issue is between cellular and VOIP providers, who cut lot of corners to make higher profits, and government-mandated quality of service for land-line providers.
It's the intention of reliability, and the fundamental reliability of the two technologies, that is the issue.
Attached to my belt right now is a Motorola Razr; pending the iPhone, this is the finest wireless telephone made. Reliable, decent sound quality, durable for a cell phone.
And yet I prefer to use my Western Electric 500 -- with a metal dial -- because it's more comfortable and sounds better. A flip-type phone and an mp3 file of a real telephone bell help somewhat but aren't the full deal.
I just recently switched back to only having a land line.
My reasoning was when I made calls, I was either at home, work, or in the car. When I'm overseas, I'm in places my cell service didn't work anyway (Japan comes to mind.) Since I shouldn't be driving while on the cell, that wasn't a consideration. I have a work phone, so I don't need a cell phone there, so that leaves the home phone. Would I rather pay at least $40 a month for a phone that has crappy reception, limited minutes, and needs to be recharged regularly? Or would I rather pay less than $20 a month for a phone that works even during the worst weather, has unlimited usage, and is powered by the line itself?
But this perspective comes from someone who is 26-years-old and more comfortable spending time with those twice his age than those of his own generation. Your mileage may vary.
They do have their side benefits though, but the major benefit, (for the Powers That Be), is that they are effective in fuzzing people out and dumbing them down just a few more notches so that they are more easily controlled.
It doesn't surprise me that cell phone and wireless technology is being pushed down all our throats. A fully microwaved society is a society which is several steps closer to not even needing totalitarian controls. --When the people are too dazed and misdirected to ever rebel by altering their behavior so that they are not permanently stressed out, tired and sad all the time, who needs Macheovelli?
My current "What the hell?!" is the multinational push to do away with incandescent bulbs in favor of CFLs. Have you seen the EM pollution which come off those things? You probably haven't. Nobody talks about that little aspect of the new magical lightbulbs. The most amazing part is that the companies are trying to sell these to us using the "environmentally friendly" angle. And people are actually buying it! Astonishing. --While it makes great ad copy, doesn't anybody else find it hard to believe GE really cares about such issues? Heck, do they even stand to make much more money, (if any), by selling CFL's than they do incandescents? I suspect the reality is more closely tied to their long relationship with the military industrial complex.
Just think. . . Every home permanently bathed in ambient EM pollution, from cell phones, to computers to the very lights in the ceiling, all eagerly installed by the people themselves. . ! It's genius! It's a fascist's dream come true. --All the little people operating within their little parameters without having to spend any extra money on troops.
Anyway. . , aren't "lower income bracket consumers" generally the same people who shop at Walmart, watch too much TV and feed their kids McFood? That they are adopting the control measures faster than any other group speaks volumes.
-FL
Qwest is POTS. Comcast uses a dedicated line for telephone - not like Vonage.
The mobile-only lifestyle is quite popular in Europe, and not just with the under-30s. But since mobile reception is so much worse in the US, I find it hard to believe that an all-mobile lifestyle will really take hold, at least without some major renovation of the infrastructure.
as a freedom loving old-school conservative (now i'm a "liberal" so whatever) libertarian american, i would have to say you are all too right. unfortunately, this nation is ruled by corporatist (read: fascist) lords who only care about themselves and their entertainment. the rest is just pan et circi for the people. as for the neocon mods: screw them and their fake "compasionate conservatism, save the children, stop the drugs, give illegals amnesty, new world order" bullshit.
Pagan? Geek? Check out #paganism on Freenode IRC
...as for the neocon mods: screw them...
Nah, I save that for the hookers. Wouldn't want people to think I'm weird. Don't want to catch anything either. I can't blame the mods too much. The truth is kinda ugly...and it does cause inflammation in some cases with those who are intolerant or allergic. All they're looking for is a pretty face, and a license from the Board of Health. Me, I just turn off the lights and pretend. It's all in the motion of the ocean, baby.
What?
My home phone is attached to my broadband and is much cheaper than paying line rental and all the other extras that Australians have to pay for. I would have a cell-type connection if they made one that had the look and feel of the old-fashioned type of phone : like the receiver and large easy to read alphanumerics. Mobile/cell phones don't have that.
We can't all be heroes - somebody has to stand and clap as they go by.
Cold call telemarketing is not a legitimate way to do business. It should be banned.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Haven't purchased nor utilized a land-line since 1999. It's been far more convenient, price effective and just plain simpler to deal with cell carriers. Not that cell phones/services don't have their quirks.
Besides, 99.9% of land-line carriers are monopolies and don't give a damn about their customers.
For those of us who use our cellphones as *phones* (rather than cameras, email clients, et cetera), we know that cells still don't touch POTS in terms of voice quality. Until cellular meets or exceeds POTS in this regard, I'm keeping my quaint, old-fashioned, landline phones, and only using my cell for what it was really intended: as an emergency substitute to pulling over and using a pay-phone.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman