HDMI and DVI are digital signals- component is still analog and subject to signal degradation. a side by side comparison of HDMI vs. a good set of component cables will result in HDMI having the nicer picture.
The article's wording is a bit off. the 400K units are for the North American launch. There's an additional 100K going to Japan. another 800K units will be shipped to North America between launch and december, and another million or so going to Japan in that same period.
1. Expandability. If you get the low end version, you're screwed if any future games *require* one of the expansions that Sony is promising...
the only differences between the two versions is a larger hard drive (by 40 gigs or so); built in Wifi; a memory card reader, and HDMI. with the exception of HDMI, all of these can be upgraded on Ps3 "core", and none of those can ever be "required" for games.
It's got the same features. It's big advantage is that it plays the whole PS2 library (hopefully) and that it's a Sony. Oh, and it's way more expensive than a 360. Does this make sense any other way than to say their exists a Japanses bias vs MS?
To be fair, in your entire post you failed to mention the 360 is the followup to a system that (for various reasons) did absolutely TERRIBLY in Japan. If a 3D0-360 or Atari JaguarStation2 was released in the US, most american gamers wouldn't go anywhere NEAR them no matter what the specs were, because the reputation of the preceding consoles was so poor.
As for why the original Xbox failed, no one has a clear answer but there's a few things that definitely stick out- The design was terrible. Nevermind the size, that's one ugly box. The system is also known for a Genre of games that simply don't sell well in Japan. it's #1 and #2 sellers are BOTH Halo, which doesn't interest Japanese Gamers. If you're a Japanese gamer not into FPS or Western RPGs (Think Bioware titles, Morrowind, etc) your reasons to invest in an Xbox are slim, at best.
It also unfortunately was a complete unknown in the console area, competing with an EXTREMELY strong sony offering that had launched a year earlier with massive amounts of hype, and a nintendo system launching at the same time with better titles. The writing was practically on the wall from the beginning. Microsoft might eventually catch on in Japan, but it's going to take a LONG time to change the perception of the average Japanese who doesn't follow gaming news, ("Another Xbox? Who cares, the first one was terrible! Where's the new Sony/Nintendo....") and just wants the next big thing.
i know this was a joke, but Valkyrie profile was just re-released last month on PSP and is quite good. It's also getting a sequel on Ps2 in a couple of weeks.
In general i agree- clearly this launch is a mess, but a few nitpicks-
Then they've got 2 units (sku's you Americans call them?) - why?!...it dilutes the market and makes it harder for developers to target a SINGLE stable platform...
Both sku's are identical from a game development standpoint. Hard drive standard, Processors and RAM are identical..the only real difference between the two is the HDMI out. everything else (memory card readers, Wifi) is irrelevant.
...then there's the loss of GTA4 as an exclusive
GTA3, GTA VC, and GTA San Andreas also showed up on Xbox. GTA4 was never an exclusive.
Then there's developer rumours "totally difficult to code for" then there's more rumours "isn't that much more powerful than 360" then there's screenshots pretty much showing it's really not that substantially better...
Developers have stated the Ps3 is difficult to code for, but leaps and bounds easier than the Ps2 was. Difficulty of coding isn't likely to be an issue. As for screenshots, we're comparing incomplete games in progress to completed games for a system that's been out for a year. hardly an accurate comparison. Besides, as consoles go the Ps3 and 360 are fairly complex, and its likely to be 3 years or more before we're able to see what they're really capable of.
Case in point, E3 last year the "mock up" PS3 came with a boomerang controller, it had 2 HDMI out ports, it supported 7 controllers and had 3 network ports, it was capable of pretty much anything according to Sony.
The boomerang controller was almost universally panned. I'd be amazed if they DIDN'T replace the thing, which was admittedly a work in progress at the time. The Ps3 STILL supports 7 bluetooth devices. Are all of these going to be controllers? that's up to the developer of the software. more likely it'll be a combination of controllers and things like wireless headsets, etc. It lost the extra network and HDMI ports (which were fairly redundant...how many were going to use two simulataneous HDTVs? exactly.) but gained a standard 20 gig+ hard drive. I'd call it an even trade.
FYI: the original version of the PS1 also used standard composite cables to connect to the TV. this was dropped in later revisions, as its a lot cheaper to just use a multi out.
the PSP will be able to play PS1 games via a downloadable service, like the virtual console on the Wii. It's expected to make it's debut later this year around the time of the Ps3 launch.
That's really the only practical way to do backwards compat with Ps1 titles, as the original CDs are FAR too large to be read by that handheld.
# PS2 had, what, 4 online games in its entire lifespan... only one of those (FF11) being anything close to a hit..
Only 4 titles? Ps2 online is bigger than you think. SOCOM 1, 2, or 3 ring any bells? That series is huge. Other titles off the top of my head- Everquest Online Adventures, Monster Hunter, Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence, Frequency, Amplitude, Splinter Cell 2 and 3, Killzone, Madden NFL 2003,2004,2005,2006 (This is a BIG deal, as the Ps2 was the only way to get online with madden for several years) Resident Evil Outbreak 1 and 2; Ratchet and Clank: up your Arsenal; Ratchet: Deadlocked...and I'm sure there's a LOT more that I didn't think of, and ALL of those sans everquest were free to play.
Can't speak for the rest of the US, but 20 minutes isn't anywhere NEAR enough time to "clear" the philadelphia metropolitan area, and last I checked we were only #6 in terms of largest cities. (Phoenix just passed us.)
From center city philadelphia, 20 minutes west on I-76 will have you out near the conshohocken/King of Prussia area (still very much a metro area) 20 minutes north, you're looking at northeast philadelphia, 20 minutes south you're on your way to wilmington, passing the philadelphia airport. East you're looking across the bridge to Cherry hill and similar parts of jersey, and that's in the dead of night with no traffic whatsoever. You want to get anywhere in Rush hour, plan for an hour+ before you're looking at farmland.
8.5 Trillion? They want it? They can come get it. Manufacturing? It's about time we bring those jobs back *here*. Where they belong.
Yes, I realize I'll be modded down offtopic but I thought this type of thinking was worth responding to. Manufacturing jobs will come back to the states as soon as americans are willing to pay for them. You can't cry and make noise about no manufacturing jobs, yet demand the "low low prices" at Walmart caused primarily by asian workers making pennies an hour.
You want American manufacturing jobs back? Be prepared to foot the bill American workers demand.
I think the idea is intended to appeal to the people who never owned a Gamecube and missed out on some good games.
That's what backwards compatibility is for. Hitting up the used racks at EB makes a lot more sense to that crowd than shoehorning the wii's control system into games not initially designed for it. I thought Nintendo was supposed to be about innovation? Make NEW games around the interface, rather than rehashing the old stuff.
I know virtua fighter was the better game, but we were discussing the 3d performance of the PSX vs. The Saturn, and in THAT area alone (and not gameplay, as toshinden sucked) Virtua fighter lost hands down.
there's some serious holes in your argument here, starting with the most obvious one:
I think the Dreamcast died for much the same reason as the Atari Jaguar died and that I think the PS3 will die; we game consumers don't really want or need that much power, at least not at that price.
The Dreamcast debuted at $199 and was down to $99 in less than a year. Of all the things that killed it, price wasn't one of them, and as for power it was the weakest of the next gen systems...Xbox > GC > Ps2 >DC.
Yet, you claim you purchased a Ps2 which is more powerful, and substantially more expensive than the DC. 5 years after it's launch it STILL isn't $99.
I agree with the poster above me- what you're saying sounds a lot like "I can't afford early adopter hardware and don't want to wait for price drops therefore everyone should cater to my needs and only produce cheap goods that fit my budget." Gamers come from all walks of life and who are you to say companies are wrong for wanting to cater to demand? There's clearly a market for powerful, cutting edge hardware, just as there's a market for the budget gamer such as yourself. one of the bonuses of a competitive market is that prices will gradually come down as manufacturers seek to appeal to all types of gamers. If a system or game you want is a little pricy, either save up or or have some patience.
I wouldn't say wayyyyyyyyyyy before. The Saturn made it's debut only a few months before the Playstation, and a Year and a half before the N64. That's not all that long, considering the Dreamcast launched a year before the Ps2, the Ps2 launched a year before the Xbox and GC, and The 360 a year before the Ps3 and Wii.
The Saturn's 3D capabilities were widely considered a tacked on afterthought. It was originally a single processor machine with the second processor added late in development to assist with 3D. In comparison, the Ps1 and N64 were designed from the ground up as (nearly) exclusively 3D capable machines, and really outshone the Saturn. Look at Virtua Fighter (launch title) vs. Battle Arena Toshinden (PSX launch title.) the two were released only months apart but there's really no comparison, graphics wise.
I'm not sure how this keeps getting trotted out. Sony made a TON of money on the Ps2 (and the Ps1) and continues to do so. They didn't profit on the HARDWARE ITSELF for about 18 months or so, but the software and the current model of the Ps2 is still VERY profitable for sony. The only company to lose money last round was microsoft, and they've learned from their mistakes- the 360 is expected to make a profit within the next year or so.
Also, the NDS is not a console- it's a handheld. The hardware and the markets they target are COMPLETELY different, and implying that the NDS is in any way shape or form in competition with the 360, the Ps2, Ps3, Wii, or Gamecube is idiocy.
you mean BESIDES the black/white ads that generated insane amounts of controversy, and were all over the news INCLUDING a rather lengthy discussion here on slashdot?
Because games as a medium have yet to "mature" to the point where they're as acceptable to the public as movies and television. in fact, when TV and movies were in their infancy, there was no highbrow entertainment to be had there, either. These things just take time.
..of thinking the vast majority of the PS3's intended audience actually pay attention to things like E3, post to slashdot, or even GET obscure humor related to "gigantic crabs."
The videogame hardcore audience has essentially already made up it's mind, but it amounts to little more than a vocal minority. Most of those Sony is banking on to buy the Ps3 know little more than that they enjoyed the Ps1 and Ps2 so the Ps3 is likely a safe bet. Will the price give them pause? Maybe. But Price is almost never an issue for the "hot product" come holiday season (Remember when tickle me elmo's and cabbage patch kids were going for hundreds of dollars? Parents were fighting each other in Walmart just to get one) and consoles ALWAYS drop in price as time goes on. In a year or two this won't even be an issue.
$10/movie doesn't strike me as a major profit center - you've got the cost of the equipment to offset, the customer service rep's time, and then, as others have pointed out, either lawyers or the MPAA payoff...
are you kidding me? $10/movie is FAR more than what circuit city makes per DVD movie sale (only a buck or two), and it's pure profit, like a warranty sale. Chances are this service will be offered to any and all potential DVD buyers, EXACTLY LIKE a warranty or replacement program, now that I think about it...and if even 1 in 20 goes for it, that's significant revenue for CC.
As for "cost of equipment" I think you've forgotten we're talking about Circuit City. There's scads of PC's and burners laying about that can be "written off" and put to this purpose, then "open boxed" and sold at a profit once it's gotten long in the tooth. The customer service reps are usually kids in school making $7/hour, (no more commissioned employees, so time comes cheap) and as someone else pointed out, circuit city most certainly does have an extensive legal team retained by corporate HQ already.
Disclaimer: I used to work for CC while in college. It was pretty routine to use product for "demonstrations" etc this way then sell it later.
your two statements are contradictory. in the first, you say that if a console ISNT supported by EA, no one will buy it.
in your second, you say that EA support isn't considered an essential for someone to buy it.
It's either one or the other. In case you missed what I was trying to say re: madden- Football is the most popular sport in the US and IS DEFINITELY a dealbreaker for a LOT of casual gamers. Without EA support (and thus, no NFL or NCAA football on the console) the wii will tank in the US and die a quick and painful death.
The fact that EA is onboard and enthusiastically supporting the wii and it's controller is a BIG plus in nintendo's column. And lest we forget, EA owns not only madden and NCAA football, which are beyond huge, but also the SIMS franchise. Those series together have outsold all nintendo properties combined by a WIDE margin over the past five years. One simply cannot have a successful console without EA's support at this point.
As I understand it Nintendo said it can do physics simulation in hardware but it doesn't use a separate PPU for that.
hardware which is substantially underpowered compared to the Ps3,360, or PC. I'm aware nintendo never released "official" specs and likely never will, but so far the estimate of "Twice as powerful as a gamecube" is still WAY below what the other platforms bring to the table, and initial screenshots of upcoming games reflect this. I expect the simulation of physics to have a similar gap.
Games that push the limits of what those machines will be able to do will NOT be possible on the wii and MAY alienate gamers who enjoy playing those types of games. My point is that it's all well and good to chase the casual audience with a new approach, but don't ignore the gamers who have built the industry into the 6-7 billion dollar juggernaut it is.
Slashdot Mirror
HDMI and DVI are digital signals- component is still analog and subject to signal degradation. a side by side comparison of HDMI vs. a good set of component cables will result in HDMI having the nicer picture.
The article's wording is a bit off. the 400K units are for the North American launch. There's an additional 100K going to Japan. another 800K units will be shipped to North America between launch and december, and another million or so going to Japan in that same period.
To be fair, in your entire post you failed to mention the 360 is the followup to a system that (for various reasons) did absolutely TERRIBLY in Japan. If a 3D0-360 or Atari JaguarStation2 was released in the US, most american gamers wouldn't go anywhere NEAR them no matter what the specs were, because the reputation of the preceding consoles was so poor.
As for why the original Xbox failed, no one has a clear answer but there's a few things that definitely stick out- The design was terrible. Nevermind the size, that's one ugly box. The system is also known for a Genre of games that simply don't sell well in Japan. it's #1 and #2 sellers are BOTH Halo, which doesn't interest Japanese Gamers. If you're a Japanese gamer not into FPS or Western RPGs (Think Bioware titles, Morrowind, etc) your reasons to invest in an Xbox are slim, at best.
It also unfortunately was a complete unknown in the console area, competing with an EXTREMELY strong sony offering that had launched a year earlier with massive amounts of hype, and a nintendo system launching at the same time with better titles. The writing was practically on the wall from the beginning. Microsoft might eventually catch on in Japan, but it's going to take a LONG time to change the perception of the average Japanese who doesn't follow gaming news, ("Another Xbox? Who cares, the first one was terrible! Where's the new Sony/Nintendo....") and just wants the next big thing.
I LOVE the "Controller Glove." It's SO bad.
Sony promised 2 million during the launch period, 4 mil by the end of 2006, and 2 mil more by March 31st 2007.
NOT 6 million at launch with 2 million per month after. Big difference.
maybe to support the people who's hard work went into the games? Just a thought.
i know this was a joke, but Valkyrie profile was just re-released last month on PSP and is quite good. It's also getting a sequel on Ps2 in a couple of weeks.
FYI: the original version of the PS1 also used standard composite cables to connect to the TV. this was dropped in later revisions, as its a lot cheaper to just use a multi out.
That's really the only practical way to do backwards compat with Ps1 titles, as the original CDs are FAR too large to be read by that handheld.
Only 4 titles? Ps2 online is bigger than you think. SOCOM 1, 2, or 3 ring any bells? That series is huge. Other titles off the top of my head- Everquest Online Adventures, Monster Hunter, Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence, Frequency, Amplitude, Splinter Cell 2 and 3, Killzone, Madden NFL 2003,2004,2005,2006 (This is a BIG deal, as the Ps2 was the only way to get online with madden for several years) Resident Evil Outbreak 1 and 2; Ratchet and Clank: up your Arsenal; Ratchet: Deadlocked...and I'm sure there's a LOT more that I didn't think of, and ALL of those sans everquest were free to play.
Can't speak for the rest of the US, but 20 minutes isn't anywhere NEAR enough time to "clear" the philadelphia metropolitan area, and last I checked we were only #6 in terms of largest cities. (Phoenix just passed us.)
From center city philadelphia, 20 minutes west on I-76 will have you out near the conshohocken/King of Prussia area (still very much a metro area) 20 minutes north, you're looking at northeast philadelphia, 20 minutes south you're on your way to wilmington, passing the philadelphia airport. East you're looking across the bridge to Cherry hill and similar parts of jersey, and that's in the dead of night with no traffic whatsoever. You want to get anywhere in Rush hour, plan for an hour+ before you're looking at farmland.
Yes, I realize I'll be modded down offtopic but I thought this type of thinking was worth responding to. Manufacturing jobs will come back to the states as soon as americans are willing to pay for them. You can't cry and make noise about no manufacturing jobs, yet demand the "low low prices" at Walmart caused primarily by asian workers making pennies an hour.
You want American manufacturing jobs back? Be prepared to foot the bill American workers demand.
I know virtua fighter was the better game, but we were discussing the 3d performance of the PSX vs. The Saturn, and in THAT area alone (and not gameplay, as toshinden sucked) Virtua fighter lost hands down.
The Dreamcast debuted at $199 and was down to $99 in less than a year. Of all the things that killed it, price wasn't one of them, and as for power it was the weakest of the next gen systems...Xbox > GC > Ps2 >DC. Yet, you claim you purchased a Ps2 which is more powerful, and substantially more expensive than the DC. 5 years after it's launch it STILL isn't $99.
I agree with the poster above me- what you're saying sounds a lot like "I can't afford early adopter hardware and don't want to wait for price drops therefore everyone should cater to my needs and only produce cheap goods that fit my budget." Gamers come from all walks of life and who are you to say companies are wrong for wanting to cater to demand? There's clearly a market for powerful, cutting edge hardware, just as there's a market for the budget gamer such as yourself. one of the bonuses of a competitive market is that prices will gradually come down as manufacturers seek to appeal to all types of gamers. If a system or game you want is a little pricy, either save up or or have some patience.
I wouldn't say wayyyyyyyyyyy before. The Saturn made it's debut only a few months before the Playstation, and a Year and a half before the N64. That's not all that long, considering the Dreamcast launched a year before the Ps2, the Ps2 launched a year before the Xbox and GC, and The 360 a year before the Ps3 and Wii.
The Saturn's 3D capabilities were widely considered a tacked on afterthought. It was originally a single processor machine with the second processor added late in development to assist with 3D. In comparison, the Ps1 and N64 were designed from the ground up as (nearly) exclusively 3D capable machines, and really outshone the Saturn. Look at Virtua Fighter (launch title) vs. Battle Arena Toshinden (PSX launch title.) the two were released only months apart but there's really no comparison, graphics wise.
I'm not sure how this keeps getting trotted out. Sony made a TON of money on the Ps2 (and the Ps1) and continues to do so. They didn't profit on the HARDWARE ITSELF for about 18 months or so, but the software and the current model of the Ps2 is still VERY profitable for sony. The only company to lose money last round was microsoft, and they've learned from their mistakes- the 360 is expected to make a profit within the next year or so.
Also, the NDS is not a console- it's a handheld. The hardware and the markets they target are COMPLETELY different, and implying that the NDS is in any way shape or form in competition with the 360, the Ps2, Ps3, Wii, or Gamecube is idiocy.
you mean BESIDES the black/white ads that generated insane amounts of controversy, and were all over the news INCLUDING a rather lengthy discussion here on slashdot?
Because games as a medium have yet to "mature" to the point where they're as acceptable to the public as movies and television. in fact, when TV and movies were in their infancy, there was no highbrow entertainment to be had there, either. These things just take time.
..of thinking the vast majority of the PS3's intended audience actually pay attention to things like E3, post to slashdot, or even GET obscure humor related to "gigantic crabs."
The videogame hardcore audience has essentially already made up it's mind, but it amounts to little more than a vocal minority. Most of those Sony is banking on to buy the Ps3 know little more than that they enjoyed the Ps1 and Ps2 so the Ps3 is likely a safe bet. Will the price give them pause? Maybe. But Price is almost never an issue for the "hot product" come holiday season (Remember when tickle me elmo's and cabbage patch kids were going for hundreds of dollars? Parents were fighting each other in Walmart just to get one) and consoles ALWAYS drop in price as time goes on. In a year or two this won't even be an issue.
are you kidding me? $10/movie is FAR more than what circuit city makes per DVD movie sale (only a buck or two), and it's pure profit, like a warranty sale. Chances are this service will be offered to any and all potential DVD buyers, EXACTLY LIKE a warranty or replacement program, now that I think about it...and if even 1 in 20 goes for it, that's significant revenue for CC.
As for "cost of equipment" I think you've forgotten we're talking about Circuit City. There's scads of PC's and burners laying about that can be "written off" and put to this purpose, then "open boxed" and sold at a profit once it's gotten long in the tooth. The customer service reps are usually kids in school making $7/hour, (no more commissioned employees, so time comes cheap) and as someone else pointed out, circuit city most certainly does have an extensive legal team retained by corporate HQ already.
Disclaimer: I used to work for CC while in college. It was pretty routine to use product for "demonstrations" etc this way then sell it later.
your two statements are contradictory. in the first, you say that if a console ISNT supported by EA, no one will buy it.
in your second, you say that EA support isn't considered an essential for someone to buy it.
It's either one or the other. In case you missed what I was trying to say re: madden- Football is the most popular sport in the US and IS DEFINITELY a dealbreaker for a LOT of casual gamers. Without EA support (and thus, no NFL or NCAA football on the console) the wii will tank in the US and die a quick and painful death.
The fact that EA is onboard and enthusiastically supporting the wii and it's controller is a BIG plus in nintendo's column. And lest we forget, EA owns not only madden and NCAA football, which are beyond huge, but also the SIMS franchise. Those series together have outsold all nintendo properties combined by a WIDE margin over the past five years. One simply cannot have a successful console without EA's support at this point.
hardware which is substantially underpowered compared to the Ps3,360, or PC. I'm aware nintendo never released "official" specs and likely never will, but so far the estimate of "Twice as powerful as a gamecube" is still WAY below what the other platforms bring to the table, and initial screenshots of upcoming games reflect this. I expect the simulation of physics to have a similar gap.
Games that push the limits of what those machines will be able to do will NOT be possible on the wii and MAY alienate gamers who enjoy playing those types of games. My point is that it's all well and good to chase the casual audience with a new approach, but don't ignore the gamers who have built the industry into the 6-7 billion dollar juggernaut it is.