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I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Tandy 100. There is still a lot of support out there, such as Club100, etc.

Someone should really make a new one with the same keyboard, maybe a better screen and WiFi that still runs on AA's.

There's the alphasmart, which is getting there, and runs PalmOS.

The Dana seems more useful!

Imagine if you could have the Notepad (hell, stick with the greyscale LCD screen if you want, just make it a little wider and a little taller) which used USB flash and could connect to Ethernet instead (wireless might be a stretch because that's quite power-hungry). Authors, casual users, word-processors would be using them everywhere you go.

Isn't that pretty close to the AlphaSmart? Shame it doesn't sell in massive numbers.

http://www.alphasmart.com/Retail/

Try that. Doesn't do OpenOffice formatting I don't think, but it seems to fit the bill otherwise.

I know just what you're looking for...

http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html

Modern semiconductors? Check.
Useful storage capacity? 16 MiB is useful for this class of device... Check.
A little more CPU power? It's got a Motorola Dragonball, although I'm not sure of the clock speed... still, even if it's the slowest 16 MHz model, which I'm almost certain it isn't, that's better than a 2.4 MHz 8085. Check.
A better display? 240x64 monochrome in the Model 100, 560x160 16 greyscale in the Dana. Check.
Instant boot? Check.
AA batteries? Check. And, it comes with a LiIon pack, rated for up to 25 hours, as well. Smooth.
Palm OS? Check. (4.1.2, though.)

Oh, and it's got one other feature that I've seen mentioned as desired in a Model 100 successor... optional WiFi. (Then again, WiFi is much less useful on Palm OS 4.x than it is on 5.x...)

The only downside is, I've not heard great things about AlphaSmart's keyboards. Which is kinda sad, seeing as their original devices were meant to be... portable keyboards.

What you are looking for then is the AlphaSmart Dana http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html which is all of this and more.

My older Alphasmart 2000 was just a typing machine, but as such it was amazing. It got, I don't know, hundreds and hundreds of hours of battery life from 3 AAs. I was always shocked when the batteries died, once every eight or ten months.

The Dana and Dana wireless uses 3 AA batteries.

160x560 graphical screen runs PalmOS v4.1

Appently still avalible for $350.

To bad Access doesn't suport v4.1 anymore so you can't get the SDK anymore.

I'd say the real question is, why aren't things like these sold at Wal*Mart for $20 a pop? They're great for students, who don't really need full wordprocessing and internet capabilities all the time, just enough to type some things and then use a real computer for markup & such.

But they cost as much as an OLPC, what gives?

Why not give an AlphaSmart a try for your writing? Runs PalmOS (though the wide-screen aspect ratio will royally confuse apps that make poor assumptions about resolution) and lasts darn near forever on 3x AAA alkalines. I don't work for the makers, but I do know several professional writers who love the little machines.

Sadly, this won't help you with your photo conundrum, but you might consider one of those hard-drive based photo wallets (perhaps something like this) and visit an internet cafe periodically to replicate to a server.

I think most of you are missing the point. Im a teacher and work with kids 6-12 years old. Kids dont need a full PC setup with bells and whistles to use a computer in a way that assists their learning. 90% of our computer use is surfing for info, mainly on wikipedia and google, and simple text editing. The kids dont use email much, they prefer IM and all of them have MSN accounts that doesnt work in our network anyway. The most popular computing device we have is a couple of Alphasmarts. Why ? Because its easy, small, light and no hassle at all to use. Its a lot faster than the laptops we have both to turn on and off and occupies less space and its quiet. The fact that you can bounce it off the desk without breaking it or losing the contents helps as well. Ruggedness and ease of use goes a long way even in a first-world country.

I've always been rather intrigued by the AlphaSmart Dana (where do they come up with these names...). 25 hour battery, full sized keyboard, decent sized touch screen (looks like 640x200), wireless, USB, some mysterious expansion slots (can't figure out what kind), and above all it runs PalmOS. Which means you can use your own applications on it.

Does anyone actually have one? Or has seen one?

For general word processing, how would the Asus Eee PC 701 compare against the Alphasmart Neo?

vhogemann said:
>There were also some company building a greyscale PalmOS device
>with a full keyboard attached to it... but I can't remember the name.

That'd probably be the Dana AlphaSmart:

http://www.alphasmart.com/

William

Does anyone nowadays make a small computer with a decent sized keyboard and without a big flippy screen?

Take a look at AlphaSmart's portable computers. The Neo goes for $250 and is roughly equivalent to a Model 100.

so what would consume more 32gb SRAM or 32gb disk?

MK3006GAL: 1.8" HD, 0.01W/GB, 1.1W power consumption during operation 0.4W idle, 0.07W sleep.

Now, SRAM is a different story. I only checked digikey for SRAM, and the biggest one they had was 128Mbit, but it was actually DRAM that is accessed like SRAM. With 128Mbit chips, you are looking at over 1800 chips! Even with the "low power" chip I found, those 1800 chips consume 375mA in standby mode (not including the insane amount of support chips required to drive 1800 chips!) To actually use the RAM, each chip has an "initial access" power rating of 35mA, making a whopping combined 65A, talk about some thick PCB traces!

I don't have time right now to look up the power requirements of 32GB of flash or SDRAM. There is a link somewhere in the comments for this article to a device that supposedly lasts up to 100 hours on batteries. It is a sort of large, palm os based device with only 16MB of memory, but can run on AAs. perhaps that would suit your needs for now.

At a fifth of the cost, with a 100 hour battery life, and probably more software.

http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html

Lately I've bought an Alphasmart Dana, which looks like the Tandy you describe, and is a Palm system with a battery, changeable for 3 AA batteries, leaving you with a 25 hour autonomy. If that is not enough, you may still get; from the same manufacturer, the simpler "Neo" offers a whopping 700 hours autonomy, and 8 text buffers (no PalmOS this time), and some basic connectivity to a PC.

http://www.alphasmart.com/products/

Not exactly "feel the power" kind of stuff but imho, these do nicely match the portability, general resilience and autonomy requirements. They're rather expansive, too.

Another interesting way is to adjoin a Bluetooth keyboard to a PDA.

Just my 2 eurocents.

Word processors are also small eletronic devices that are generally a keyboard and a small thing that does one thing: word processing. http://www.alphasmart.com/ comes to mind.

If they can actually make an OLPC with the specs of the most recent prototypes, it'd still be a good deal at $300.

It's a significantly more capable machine than an AlphaSmart Dana, and those sell for more than $400. There's a definite niche for rugged PC-companion machines with full-sized keyboards. The OLPC beats every previous entrant in that category by having a much better screen - everything else has a "mail slot" black and white screen with pretty miserable resolution.

The Dana is, I think, the best of the breed at the moment, since it has a 560 by 160 greyscale LCD screen and runs Palm OS. The dual-mode OLPC screen beats that by miles, and the OLPC also runs (or will run, or is alleged to run...) Linux.

I'm surprised that people haven't used modern technology to make something with a similar size and power consumption, but with better specifications. Journalists, students ... anybody who has to take notes could find it to be useful.

I bought a Dana a week ago, as a writing machine. It has:

  * B/W landscape screen
  * Full-size keyboard, one of the best I've ever used, on any computer
  * Standard-sized rechareagble batteries (3 x AA)
  * Runs 30 hours on one charge
  * Two SD slots
  * Infrared
  * USB connection for printer
  * USB connection for synchronisation, also charges the device
  * Wifi

The screen works in direct sunlight, and also in dim light. The only drawback is that it does not fold in half, but in compensation, the device is extraordinarily robust. Almost unbreakable. And you get that lovely instant-on Palm response.

I'll probably get a second smaller Palm to act as a lighter clone, since I can easily sync the data between the two.

I guess the issue is should it be "required". Sure, having a laptop would be nice but should everyone be required to get one?

I wonder how "require all students to have notebook computers" applies to part time students and people who take a single class? I've taken two classes that weren't part of a degree program at a local college. Should I be required to have a laptop for them? Should all degree programs be required to have them?

Given the different learning styles, this may not work for every student. My son (12 years old) qualifies for an Alpha Smart but finds that he misses a lot of the class content when he tries to use it. Now it might be that he is still learning to type, but we can't assume that every college student can type with any proficiency as well.

Technology is not the answer to every problem.

Sure it is, you just have to frame the question differently. e.g.:

Problem: "Our school doesn't have a roof over it!"
Answer: "You should have a fundraiser to buy roofing construction supplies and some alumni to volunteer labor"
Results: New roof for the school, community strengthening, cost of roof spread out among the entire community via the fundraiser.

Whatever. That might be cost effective, sustainable and useful. Really, you should say:

Problem: "Our school doesn't have a roof, we need CAD software, new computers and a trained IT specialist to help us design one!"
Answer: "Let us give your education ministry a loan from the IMF or DevBank to pursue a CAD-in-Schools project, delivering top-of-the-line CAD-capable desktop computers with the latest non-F/LOSS software on it, spending millions of loan-dollars that we'll have to repay later."
Results: New computers in every school which get ruined as they got delivered during the rainy season to schools with no roof.

But seriously. The problem of course is Negroponte can create buzz with a $100 laptop-for-every-child program, whereas "put a roof on every rural school" just doesn't quite get the same level of interest from most folk, despite the fact that the cost would be lower and benefits per cost much higher. Try arguing that for the value of ventilated pit latrines (or, gasp, running water) -- people blink at you, because they don't get the fact that that is a need for many schools in the developing world. Cheap computers, they grok.

This is not in defense, just explanation and frustration from my own experience.

Basically, I agree -- If you're gonna pony up $100US/child, lemme suggest, oh, maybe, a billion better projects you can direct that towards.

On the other hand, if you've got some of the basics, not having basic computing skills can be a real barrier in getting a good job. Current solutions (that I've seen enacted in programs!) are keyboards with a tiny lcd screen and palmOS for $200+, so a fully functional laptop with some made-for-3rd-world ruggedizing, solar/handcrank power, etc. concepts built in is a potentially valuable idea.

I find it interesting, however, that (according to http://laptop.media.mit.edu/):
"Please note that the $100 laptops--not yet in production--will not be available for sale. The laptops will only be distributed to schools directly through large government initiatives. "

I for one would pay twice the price to get a ruggedized, hand-crankable, low-end, paperback-book-sized laptop. I smell something funny, economically speaking, going on here. Either the hardware cost will be at a loss and there's service/support/gov't contracting fees to balance it, or something else funny. I'd imagine the demand for these in the developed world would be reasonably high, so by doing this he's killing his profits that he could use to improve the design for the developing world...

I have severe problems with writing [think kinder gardener level] to the point that the local school district has issued me an electronic aid to keep my notes on and do some assignments. Without this I could never finish taking notes in time and be legible. Now I can be done before most people are half way finished since I am able to type faster then I can write.

Though the device I use is a glorified palm pilot with wifi and a full size keyboard it is still better for me then using a pencil. http://www2.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w.html

-FL

I'd like to recommend looking into the Dana by Alphasmart. It runs over 10,000 Palm OS Applications, and costs $379.00. Or, you could try the dana wireless which uses 802.11b and costs $429.00. I haven't personally tried it, but it looks like it might be worthwhile. They have a Quickoffice Pro module that looks a lot like MS Office: http://www2.alphasmart.com/danastore/software-feat ures-quickoff.html Dana can be found at this site. http://www2.alphasmart.com/danastore/dana-features .html

I'd like to recommend looking into the Dana by Alphasmart. It runs over 10,000 Palm OS Applications, and costs $379.00. Or, you could try the dana wireless which uses 802.11b and costs $429.00. I haven't personally tried it, but it looks like it might be worthwhile. They have a Quickoffice Pro module that looks a lot like MS Office: http://www2.alphasmart.com/danastore/software-feat ures-quickoff.html Dana can be found at this site. http://www2.alphasmart.com/danastore/dana-features .html

I have owned an Alphasmart Dana for about a year and a half now, and it lives in a backpack that goes with me pretty much everywhere I go. It is not as small as a clam-shell style device might be but it is lightweight, has a full size keyboard (that is a joy to type on) and is durable as hell. The battery lasts about 20 hours even after a year and a half and it will take three AA batteries in a pinch. It runs Palm 4 and has two SD/MMC slots, allowing for back-ups on the fly (with 3rd party software like CardBkup or Back-Up-Buddy) and a whole lot of additional storage (I have the complete American Heritage Collegiate Dictionary and Roget's Thesaurus on mine, as well as a bunch of other things).

At the time that I bought it, the other option from Alphasmart was the AS3000, which did not appeal to me at the time. Since then, though, they have released the Neo. It is essentially the same as the AS3000 but with the form factor of the Dana and a screen that falls somewhere between the two. It runs for 700 hours on three AA batteries. If they had these when I was buying I would likely have chosen a Neo over the Dana. In fact, my mom and I split on a Neo for my sister who is in college now. She has a laptop (a fairly nice one, too) but wouldn't take it to classes unless she absolutely had to (for the normal reasons: weight, boot time, battery life) but the Neo is light and tough and instant on.

Alphasmart has a great user forum that I lurked through for quite a while before purchasing. I still go there from time to time to see what's up.

And no, I don't get any kickbacks from the peeps at Alphasmart. I am just a fanboy, apparently.

http://www2.alphasmart.com/ its incredably handy, my brother used to own one, not perfect in a corperate setting ,but we just called it 'the poor mans laptop'

I work in the library at a semi-under privileged high school. A lot of our kids don't have computers at home, but they still have the same requirements as every other high schooler in the country. Reports: typed, double-spaced, etc.

So, we check out AlphaSmarts. Basically, they are keyboards with a 3 or 4 line LCD screen and built-in word processor. The units we have can store 8 different files of decent length.

When kids are ready to transfer documents, they hook it up to ANY computer with a standard USB cable and hit Send. The AS then emulates keyboard input and transfers all the characters to whatever application is active (ideally, a word processor).

They are pretty slick and robust enough to withstand high schoolers, and not too expensive second hand. A quick look on eBay shows newish models for $50.

(*Obviously, I get no compensation for this plug. Just a satisified middle-man spreading the word.)

We used AlphaSmarts in English class a few years ago... They worked really well for typing stuff up during class, and we'd just pritn everything out at the end. It's not quite as portable as one would like, but it's the closest I've seen to such a device.

Heard of the AlphaSmart 'Dana'. It's a PalmOS based word-processor with WiFi. There's some other products in their range as well (although I'm unfamiliar with them).

See http://www.alphasmart.com/

I've got one of these, and it comes in handy from time to time.

http://www1.alphasmart.com/

...an Alphasmart? they're not incredibly expensive, relatively well-featured, light, and good with batteries..I use one for school, works quite well, granted, its not a laptop...
http://www.alphasmart.com/

I'd love something like the Alphasmart Dana except in clamshell style. Doesn't need to be incredibly tiny, just as big as a small keyboard.

Unfortunately, even if I liked the size of this device, it costs around $600. Smaller and cheaper than a laptop, my butt. I'm currently using a used IBM T21 laptop that cost $425.

I can recommend the Alphasmart Dana. Palm based with a large display, decent keyboard, and built in word processor. http://www3.alphasmart.com/products/dana.html Shameless plug - great keyboarding tutor for the Dana - http://www.bytesoflearning.com/UltraKeyProduct/UKP almOSEd.html It's listed at $379

Check out the Alphasmart website. They make modern word processors. Their products have full-size keyboards, extremely long battery life, and are very durable. The Dana, for example, is made of ABS plastic molded into a great form factor. It weighs 2 pounds and the rechargeable battery lasts 12-15 hours but can be replaced by regular AA's if you need to. It runs PalmOS.

the Alphasmart 3000 is the cheapest version. The battery will last pretty much forever. It is an absolutely basic writing tool (other than paper and pencil) and has a good reputation also.

http://www.alphasmart.com/

Doesn't quite meet your specs, but worth looking into.

I remember using these things in elementary school (I'm in college now) -- they seemed decent then, and I'm sure they're even better now. They're a bit bigger than what you were looking for, but they are a simple, portable word processor.

The very first hit led me to these two devices which seem to fit the bill exactly.

Alphasmart
Quickpad

Look at the Alphasmart. Full size keyboard, monochrome display, Palm OS, Cheap (though not sub-$100).

There is no reason why some device like what AlphaSmart makes couldn't be manufactured today for $100. It's primarly non-technical issues that prevent such things...

It sounds like you want an Alphasmart keyboard. It's a PDA stuck on a laptop-size keyboard, essentially. Much like the Mac eMate, if you remember those. Check out the text-display on the Neo--it can be quite large.

There was an earlier version that was more keyboard and less PDA (essentially a buffered keyboard with a tiny display.) You might be able to find a used one of those on eBay. I think they were $100 brand new, so it would fall within your budget (if these don't--they're cagey about the price.)

That leaves the second page. Going through methodically, and accessing every single URL mentioned on it, I removed all those that are in a language I do not understand, that do not have IrDA products that I can find relatively easily, and that do not state clearly and categorically that they support Macs on the product pages relating to their IrDA devices. That left me with just two companies: Alpha Smart and ZephIR. ZephIR's website doesn't have a working Store link; and their support information regarding OS compatibility was last updated in July 2000. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Alpha Smart is therefore the only company left, by elimination. Checking their products reveals a couple of IR pods that may be useful. They say that they will work with Mac OS 8.6 or later. They do not say anything about Mac OS X. Given that OS X's architecture is so radically different to OS 9 and earlier's, I'm not about to buy without checking with them first.

So now I need to contact them, and ask them what's what with their IR pods. If they support Mac OS X, especially 10.3, great -- my problem's solved, at least inasmuch as hardware is concerned. If they don't, I'm back to square one. Every other page that is referenced on either of those aforementioned URLs either does not have anything remotely resembling what I want (ie: an IrDA device that hooks in via USB), or does not have a clear commitment to Mac OS X support. If you want to dispute that, put your money where your mouth is, and point to one -- just one -- website that disagrees with me. I'm not asking for a long list. Just one URL will do the trick just fine.

"no built-in keyboard, unless it's a full 10-finger typeable keyboard" -- CAIMLAS

"PDAs are stuck in the middle [between cell phones and lap-tops]. If they try to evolve in either direction, they end up becoming a cell phone or a lap-top." -- prakslash

So true.
For a PalmOS device, the Dana has a huge screen and a wonderful 10-finger typeable keyboard. http://alphasmart.com/
But it seems to have become a lap-top. One with a tiny, black-and-white screen, and insufficient memory. (What did you expect for $379 brand new ? OK, $429 if you include Wi-Fi.).

Still, what other laptop, at any price, has an on-time even a quarter of Dana's 25 hours of on-time?

What other PalmOS device, at any price, has a built-in 10-finger typeable keyboard ?

Try http://www2.alphasmart.com/. Their Dana units are essentially eMates for the 21st century. They run Palm OS, have greyscale screens, WiFi, IR, USB, and a 30 hour battery life.

In terms of form factor I want it to be like the old eMate...Basic text editing and internet applications...A decent enough screen for reading and writing...about 1-2 lbs...And some basic calendar and address book software that syncs to my computer would be nice too; again PalmOS has most of what I would need here

Alphasmart Dana

Alphasmart Dana Wireless

Virtually indestructable, designed for people who tend to beat it, drop it, dunk it or slam it - i.e. for my teenage daughter, and me.

And has a great keyboard.

'nuff said.

Alphasmart Dana

Alphasmart Dana Wireless

Virtually indestructable, designed for people who tend to beat it, drop it, dunk it or slam it - i.e. for my teenage daughter, and me.

And has a great keyboard.

'nuff said.