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FlipStart to Replace Your Laptop?
WED Fan writes "Paul Allen has a new hardware venture, smaller than a laptop, larger than a blackberry. According to the Seattle P-I, the vision is to replace the laptop for most everyday use, such as office applications, email, and web surfing. 'Really, FlipStart gives you everything that your laptop does [...] We're not promoting the idea that you would do CAD design on it, but for Office applications and most of what people do with their laptops, it's great.' But at a $2000 price tag, this could be a little bit out of the range of many users. The product will launch on FlipStart.com in the not to distant future."
So let me get this straight: They sell you a small brick for more than a notebook computer costs. You get a slow processor, small screen, small hard drive, worse battery life than the average PC or Mac laptop, a keyboard you can't type on, and you're supposed to believe that it's revolutionary? I'm not following.
Sony tried this years ago with their Vaio sub-notebook line of computers. (Here's a picture.) Unlike this... thing... its keyboard was actually fairly decent, the screen was bright, and it was overall fairly useful. It's only problem was that it just wasn't large enough to be practical. You can't really type notes on a keyboard of that size. Nor are you really going to squint at the small screen while typing letters/memos/spreadsheets. That's why the entire market moved more toward the ultra-thin notebooks that were nearly as portable, but offered larger screens and keyboards.
The only advantage I can find with this thing is that it's a sub-notebook with Wifi. (Based on the comments about replacing the BlackBerry.) Possibly even GSM/EDGE support. I don't think that's going to make up for the lousy form factor, especially when you can get a $50 PCMCIA card from your cell provider to do the same thing.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I got one of these with just about the same specs 3 years ago. It was called a Sony u101. Flipstart seems a little "dated"
Any old OS can run firefox and open office and putty and xmms.
This might catch on in 10 years. Once the price falls. Of course the whole idea might be obsolete by then, replaced by cell phones, or something.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
$2000 is enough to buy a desktop replacement machine with a core duo, two gigs of ram, and a gigantic display. If you're not going to go balls-out, then you probably only need a tiny subset of your computer's power, and a super-cheap device like an OLPC machine would suit your needs. Very very few people need a tiny but complete PC, because almost all of the jobs that require that kind of power require a reasonably-sized display as well. The form factor is nice, but the price is at least twice what it should be for a device sold into this market - which itself is vanishingly small.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
$2000! Just get yourself a computer from the $100 Computer Project!
Alternately, for $2000 I could buy a shiny new MacBook Pro. Well, using a student discount anyhow. Add in Bootcamp +/- Parallels...why would the Flippamajigger ever replace my laptop, again? Yeah, it's smaller, but why would anyone willingly subject themselves to typing on a bloated blackberry keypad?
Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
Google 'flipstart' - you'll find that this thing has been Vaporware since before 2004.
I'll believe it when woot has it on sale...
To put a witty saying into 120 characters, jst rmv ll th vwls.
And not only that, the $2000 device can't even do what the $1000 laptop could.... I just don't see this going very far. Maybe if it cost $600-800.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I presume it's IBM-compatible...
Since 2002. And what have they produced since then? Nada, but some demo product shots. OQO managed to get some hardware out there, but this project seems to be going nowhere.
God is real unless declared integer.
Sucky things: If it is too big to fit in your pocket you have to hand lug it and the size is not a huge benefit over a regular laptop. Screen is really too small, even for word processing etc.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Literally almost everyone who's going to be in this market already has a DS, and it's about the right size... a small cartridge loaded with a PDA-style application or three could clean up nicely. It's not going to be a laptop, but it's a nice cheap in-between that with a few key features could clean up big time.
Too small for writing/note-taking. Too expensive for a neat gizmo. I wonder, though, if it squirts...
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
As usual, the Japanese already have a tidy solution in this camp - the Sharp Zaurus C3200. Unlike North American Zaurii this is a combo swiveltop tablet/laptop that runs linux, has full color 640x480 screen that really is awesome to look at.
:-)
64mb ram, 6gb flash drive
http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/main.shtml
I don't sell them, or even have one, but I sure want one
My Fujitsu slate was thinner, larger, more useful, and more powerful. Plug in a Happy Hacker when at home, and it was sufficiently powered. I also used Verizon CDMA...
This thing is a brick, which very often is harder to store/transport than a larger slate. Think notebooks. Once these things are as large as iPods/cell phones, they will become revolutionary, though I hazard to guess that the interaction models, and new ways of generating thinking artifacts will be the revolutionary part.
As a disclaimer, I'm a college student in a software engineering program. I do more than just browse the web or use basic office functionality on my laptop.
Why would anyone want this?
At 6 inches wide, it's really tiny. I don't see room for a highly productive screen or keyboard on this thing. I've had a laptop for about 4 months now, and I'm still getting used to the laptop keyboard when I'm not at my desk (I don't lug a full keyboard around with me to classes, but I do have one plugged into my docking station).
A 30 gig HDD isn't that big. Especially when you start saving word processor documents, e-mails (potentially with attachments), start installing programs and applications. I wouldn't want anything less than 100 gigs in a machine, which is what I have now. Even then, I would want a larger external drive for archival.
The processor...Pentium M. Is there anyone who can get by without a Core 2 or something similar? The article mentions Windows Vista. I'm not running Vista, but from my experiences with it, I wouldn't want to run it without a Core 2 Duo and 2 gigs of RAM at the bare minimum. I wouldn't even want to run XP without at least a Core 2 and a gig or gig and a half of RAM.
3.5 hours of battery life? If you aren't getting 5 or 6, I can't see businesses buying these for anyone.
And finally...$2000? I paid that for my current laptop + docking station + wireless mouse. If you can get something better for the same price (or cheaper), why buy this?
--Thomas J. Owens
Wow, this is so old it's painful. This thing has been around since at least 2004.
I've been following the Flipstart for over three years, seeing if they release.
You're much better off buying an OQO instead of holding your breath.
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/sony_ux180/Sony-Va io-UX180P.htm
N800 can use foldable bluetooth keyboards, or bluetooth virtual keyboards...
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
This is silly. You can do similar stuff with any of the Open Source Cell phones being developed. Let's see, there's OpenMoko, SVHMPC, and Trolltech. Plus, last week at O'Reilly's Etel conference, two other Open Source designs were announced.
The price range is from about $250-$650, depending on what you want to do. Adding a bigger display and a keyboard still doesn't bring you any where near $2,000.
Paul Allen is going to have to heavily subsidize this effort if he's going to get any where near the Open Source efforts currently going on. But hey, he's well known for dumping hundreds of millions of dollars into lost causes (can anyone say "Interval Research", among others).
Even so, by the time this stuff comes out, there will be other implementations already available.
Honestly, this is DOA.
I could live with the reduced performance for general purpose applications. Especially if you could pare down the OS a little so I didn't notice too much. But the real catch to me is the size. It's not so small that you could put it in a pocket, even in a coat or cargo pants, so it's not really any more convenient to transport than a laptop. Worse, really, since it would require a handbag to schlep it around. And women already have one handbag, and most men don't want one. So where does one put it?
I understand why they picked the size they did: the keyboard is around the lower limit of touch-typing form factor. But I'd prefer to carry either a laptop-size computer (and display) that only weighed 1.5 lbs or a pocket sized device with WiFi, depending on what I needed to do. They try for both, but it doesn't really sound like it would work.
I am not a crackpot.
"The FlipStart promises to do everything a full-sized laptop can do."
Except give you a screen you can actually see, and a keyboard you can actually use. Hm, there goes the output and input pieces, yep, its doomed for failure.
Sorry for the brief comment... the review is here.
Anyone else remember http://www.oqo.com/ ? Exact same business strategy from what I remember.
With the direction they're going with the iPhone, you know it's only a matter of time before Apple whips that technology into something with a 5"-7" display in a far more attractive package with superior software. I mean, look at that thing... not an ounce of industrial design, it doesn't seem like you'll be able to thumb-type on it like a Blackberry, and it's too big to fit in any coat pocket or to be carried on your belt.
And is it just me or is Paul Allen grinning like a paedophile holding something illicit in his hands? I can't believe their marketing team let that through (they probably don't have one, mind you).
Yeah, it's pricey, but the big question that the article doesn't address is screen resolution (and why isn't that given so often when discussing new notebooks?) Yes, we've had sub-notebooks before that failed, but I think one of the big reasons they fail is that the screens are typically 640 pixels across. You can't do anything reasonable with 640 pixels!
If this thing has 1024 pixels horizontal, and the price comes down a bit, I'd be all over it.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
^^^
Look above
... but does it run Mac OS X?
How is flipstart different from this.
The FlipStart team is also working on:
--a revolutionary car bigger than a SmartCar but smaller than a Mini Cooper
--a revolutionary porridge heater that will heat porridge warmer than "too cold," but colder than "too hot"
--a revolutionary Budweiser bigger than a 10-ounce but smaller than a 12-ounce.
Laboratory prototypes of the latter include a 10.5-ounce Bud, an 11-ounce Bud, and an 11.5-ounce Bud. "Really, they give you practically everything that 12-ounce Bud does," said a FlipStart spokesman, appropriately named Budd.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Looks about the size and shape of a Toshiba Libretto, but a little bit more expensive. Toshiba built these in the early '90's and they were very small, lightweight, but functional laptops. They were also rather pricey. Toshiba discontinued them for a while, but then came out with new models a few years ago. I didn't see them at the Toshiba web site, so they may have been discontinued again.
[Insert pithy quote here]
I'd rather buy an iPhone. Oh, and since we're obviously advocating commercial articles, I'd like to mention that I'd be using my iPhone while driving my Honda Fit, listening to the Russ Martin Show.
... elipses...
I hope Paul Allen doesn't have too much invested in this little device... it looks like something from 5 years ago. If it's going to cost 2 grand, why not just save some space and power and use flash-based storage? It's only 30GB anyways. It might help it look a little less like a brick, also.
It looks like it might be an interesting device... Although, not much different than something like the OQO devices that are already available.
I just don't think a scaled down laptop is going to cut it. On the one hand, it's too small to be used efficiently as a laptop, on the other, it's too large to be a carry-everywhere device.
I think the better direction is a mid-sized tablet device. Not a clunky windows PC with tablet functions duct taped on, like MS has provided thus far. I'm thinking more of a scaled up iPhone-like device. Maybe 5in x 7in, or so, thin and durable.
Give a couple generations of low power CPU improvements, battery enhancements (or alternatives), and especially software development, and you may have a device that people would actually carry.
There was a Greg Egan book, maybe Teranesia, where the main character carried a small tablet device like this. He made a convincing description of the device in an environment of high CPU power, embedded GPS-like positioning, and ubiquitous high speed Internet access. That's all I want.. is that so hard?
Isnt this pretty similar to the Ultra Mobile PC idea?
It looks slightly different with the flip design from most UMPCs I've seen, but its still the same concept right? Built in wifi, CF & PC Card expansion...
Did I miss something on the FlipStart that makes it revolutionary?
Seriously, I have a MacBook, which I love. It's great to be able to be mobile with my computing. It's small, light, powerful...
But I'm a web developer. I spend hours on it every day. The only way this can stay ergonomically practical is by using an adapter to use an external monitor and using a USB mouse. Otherwise, my neck and wrist will start screaming at me.
A device even smaller than my laptop would be good for using a few minutes at a time, to check email, or look up something on the web. Little more. It's impractical to think it can be a replacement for a desktop or even a laptop.
Sugapablo
People get a laptop instead of a QQQ or Blackberry or smartphone usually because they need to do serious work, this usually requires prolonged reading of the screen. This means the screen size is an important factor...
"5.6" display"
Next please.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
This thing costs $2k. Why?
Because it needs to be x86, with in turn means that it needs to have a bigger battery, fancier engineering, special cooling. A hard drive because it needs to swap due to Windows memory needs and usage patterns.
Kill off Windows, and then you have a bunch of better processors - PPC, ARM, whatever. Smaller battery. No special cooling. No need for a hard drive. No Windows license. Room for other features - cell phone/modem? Bluetooth hub functionality?
BTW, it has pretty much been done... Too bad it isn't Linux.
if p. allen really wanted to do something to improve the world he could focus on his ISP Charter and get us symmetric broadband at speeds and costs as good as Korea instead of pissing around with 2000$ baubles for billionaires
This invention is another solution to the same problem and another recycling of a solution that doesn't work very well. The problem is this: How do you make computing extremely portable? Currently the laptop is one solution. It is somewhat portable but not as small as some people would like. With electronics shrinking, one day we will have computers the size of a deck of cards. The issue that manufacturers are shrinking the form factor but not doing anything about the user interface. In this case there was no real development of UI but just a miniturization of the same UI as the laptop. From many earlier examples, this doesn't work well. People's hands are not shrinking and their vision isn't getting better. My opinion is that the best bet for the UI is some sort of holographic projection technology for the screen with the holographic interface like in the Matrix or Minority Report. That or direct mental interface. These are somewhat in the realm of science fiction right now.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
- Apple Newton. With a form factor too big to fit comfortably into a pocket, just one of the (many) reasons Newton never really caught on.
- The cramped keyboard. Lots of failed products had these; pick one. Squeeze the keyboard too narrow and it makes for uncomfortable typing.
- IBM Thinkpad 701. Getting past the cramped keyboard, IBM made a laptop with a butterfly keyboard. But it turned out that customers were more concerned about the narrow little screen that went with their narrow little keyboard. Sort of like the narrow little screen on this thing.
The bottom line is that he's trying to market a device that crams into the space between the laptop and PDA. And the market for that is just too small to squeeze in Allen's "next small thing."===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
I'll take this instead: http://www.my-symbian.com/s60v3/review_e90.php
Maybe you can't handle its keyboard, but I can. I have much practice on small keyboards, which, I'm sure if you had you'd be fine too. Plus, this is based on an OS that's actually designed to deal with the deficiencies of small limited devices.
I have a similar phone, until the E90 comes out: http://www.my-symbian.com/s60v3/intro_e70.php
It has a flip out keyboard with similar total dimensions to what the previously mentioned E90 will have. I easily take notes, manage my PIM, browse the web (and it's a very nice web browser, even handles javascript dropdown menus and other things you might not expect from a phone browser). I manage, read, and edit Word and Excel documents regularly. I use my work Exchange server email and also my gmail via pop, with the gmail J2ME app for extended access to searching and other gmail features.
I have an IRC client, a google chat client, a podcast aggregator, an ebook reader that supports plain text files (see: Project Gutenberg). Did I mention this thing supports WiFi, Edge, and 3G?
All of these features plus more (read: 800 pixels wide internal screen!) will be available on the E90. I will not be able to justify a laptop after this device. With a powerful desktop at home and a powerful desktop at the office, there is absolutely no reason for my to carry a device that can't fit in my pocket and won't run for more than 2-4 hours on a charge. I easily make use of my E70 for 10-12 hours of active use per charge, plus many more inactive hours.
Those who mentioned subnotebooks, you are probably right. This little thing does remind me of that. But, those who think sony did it first? Try again, subnotebooks have been done by Toshiba for at least 10 years. They STILL sell the libretto! Also Fujiitsu actually has some nice subnotebook offerings.
Honestly though, I'd take the E90 over any of these alternatives, simply because I'm going to have a phone in my pocket 24/7 anyway, it may as well give me nearly all of the features I get from a laptop without the disadvantages of poor battery life and huge space requirements, and of course, the weight of a laptop.
Oh and for the issue of storage, when is 2GB not enough for documents and the like? The practical uses of these tiny devices are easily covered in such an amount of space. 2GB Transflash/microSD are available for a relatively low price, so nothing stops you from buying a couple, one for work/documents, and another for your multimedia desires, or whatever.
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
At a fifth of the cost, with a 100 hour battery life, and probably more software.
http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html
Wow. A Microsoft alum has reinvented the Newton 2000, 10 years later. How revolutionary.
~Philly
I have a nokia n800 and love it. It can easily fit in a jacket pocket or a bag without having to think about it. Its big screen, wifi, and bluetooth, make surfing the web a breeze. I use it a lot to read news and documentation in coffee shops or on trains. With a folding bluetooth keyboard, or the on screen one, I can easily write quick notes or docs. And its linux and comes with a full featured terminal I can use to SSH into work and get some things done. Plus its only $400
The genius of the n800 I think is that it is not a laptop and not a pda. It is its own class of device, with a UI designed specificly for its small high resolution screen, touch screen, and set of buttons.
I am still waiting for a computer that looks like a small book, but where the screen itself folds in half, to become a tablet with a reasonable screen size. Apple dreamed of such a device called the Knowledge Navigator years ago in the following video, and I hope display and voice recognition technology will make this something real within the next 5 years.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3WdS4TscWH8
.. you could use an OLPC for $100:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/The_Children's_Machine
For years I've been waiting for the FlipStart to debut but it hasn't yet. I'm a current owner of a JVC 7310, OQO, and Sony UX series. I would have not bought any of those had the FlipState been available. Last I recall checking the website in early/mid-2004. No dice yet. What does Mr. Allen thing will come of this now? Chalk this one up as more vaporware.
This is great if
A.) You do not need a laptop and have enough money to optimize for size or percieved coolness. 0.1% of population
B.) You have enough money to plop down $2K at a whim and you like to have a continuum of gadget sizes on your person (watch phone flipstart laptop). 0.5%
C.) Only have a bag big enough to hold this thing but not a laptop or really big pockets and you are happy with carrying a brick in them. 0.5%
D.) Are not smart enough to wait for something better. 10%
Number of people who would buy this thing
(P(A)P(C) + P(B))P(D) ~ Steve Jobs (to use it as a paper weight... you know for laughs)
Sony tried this years ago with their Vaio sub-notebook line of computers.
[snip]
It's only problem was that it just wasn't large enough to be practical. You can't really type notes on a keyboard of that size.
And yet, a folding keyboard, when attached to a Palm III, is quite usable for taking notes, writing travelogues, etc. It mostly suffers from the limitations of the Palm: very limited and volatile mass storage, no networking.
But the folding idea allows for a reasonable sized keyboard to fit in a small space. Whey haven't subnotebook vendors picked up the idea? The device only needs to be ultra small when carried.
The royal court of /. has proclaimed this device unsuitable for their needs! Reasons for are as follows.
My computer is faster! (crowd murmers)
My computer is cheaper (more murmering)
Does not keep the opposite sex away like being hunched over a keyboard. (crowd murmers)
Any notions that anyone needing something bigger and more useful than a crackberry, but easier to travel with than a laptop shall be sentenced to public humiliation in the town square!
Hear Yee. Hear Yee. That is all.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Ok, this thing will replace my Blackberry and my Palm and maybe my phone, and it weighs ONE AND A HALF POUNDS?
I have a feeling the iPhone will be able to do all this gizmo does, at a fraction of the weight and cost, a bit slower perhaps, but at 10x the [babe version of yor choice]-magnet factor.
I'm not trying to plug iPhones, but what kind of cool stuff has Vulcan lately, versus Apple? (Besides spiffing up downtown Seattle.)
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
It always amuses me how execs think men will suddenly start carrying around purses.
Will it run WOW?
Life needs more saving throws.
These mini PCs are not going to boot laptops in any time soon. I personally don't think they ever will. One smart phones get better why use one of these giant pieces of hardware?
WTF?
No thanks, I'll keep my $600 laptop that I *can* do CAD design on.
There is a war going on for your mind.
My desktop can do a lot more than my laptop. At a fraction of the price.
Unfortunately, my desktop isn't as portable as my laptop. And this device is for those who desire the functionality of a laptop with higher portability. All I want is a good battery, terminal, browser and keyboard, and I can tolerate plugging in the keyboard.
Is it safe to assume you're a gamer, and all computers are nothing more than gaming terminals to you? (Or a photoshop user, or something else that requires a powerful computer right in front of you (the terminal is enough for my apps that need power))
I've been looking for a useful device in this space. Each one I've seen obviously has to make tradeoffs around battery life, screen size, keyboard size, and processor speed, and it's hard to compare one device to another based on features when it's really a question of whether one device achieves a better balance of tradeoffs than another.
That said, anyone interested in this space might want to take a look at the following devices:
- Sony Vaio UX series (official site w/ too much flash)
- Nokia N800 internet tablet (official site, user forums)
- OQO 02 (official site)
- Sony Mylo (my review, official site)
Short summary: the Mylo is possibly the best handheld Skype phone on the market and comes with Google Talk as well and has great UI and case design, but is expensive and has a poor keyboard. The Nokia N800 has fantastic battery life and a great browser that can handle nearly any website except Youtube, and also has a Nokia-supported very active open source development community - the device runs Debian, but lacks a keyboard and ships with apps that are too rough for non-geek end-users. The OQO 02 is a complete laptop with the best keyboard of the bunch and a lot of nice hardware UI touches, but isn't shipping until April, is expensive, and has fairly short battery life. The Vaio UX series has the best display and most processor power of the bunch, but is a little too large for comfort and has a terrible keyboard - the worst of the lot).
For my purposes, the OQO 02 has the best balance of features and tradeoffs, but I could have chosen the Nokia N800 if I wanted a maximally hackable portable computer.
--Pat
Real keys, dual mode screen, mesh networking and Linux and its Python-based shell installed by default. Windows is painful enough without a low spec.
My little Linux and tech blog
When will these companies get a clue. Users need battery life measured in weeks not hours.
I've said it before and I'll say it again the last mobile device that really worked for me was the psion 5. I don't need a color screen, sound or mechanical drives. Ideally a 1024x768 gray scale coupled with a low power cpu and 32GB of SRAM. Keep your power guzzling features and let me have a weeks vacation and no need to plug the thing in.
Of course we can't have that, that would be useful.
Yeah this thing looks like it does less than the last Fujitsu P1000 which is just slightly wider (barely larger footprint than a paperback book), and has a touch screen which is an anchient 800mhz Transmeta system. This isn't even replacing a $1000 item with a $2000 item. This is at most a $400 item these days. For $2000 I could get a highly pimped out Fujitsu Lifebook P7230 (I dig Fujitsu's sub-notebooks, rugged lil bastards) that does everything that does, has a whole fucking lot more, and the only drawback would be a slightly larger system (would be even smaller if they dropped the optical drive).
No, the arguments are not the same between laptops and desktops, because a laptop and desktop occupy fundamentally different form factors categories. A laptop is portable, a desktop isn't. Fundamental difference. This is more like laptop vs notebook.
There are basically 4 broad categories of form factor based around the effort involved in carrying them, which I will call Pocket, Portable, Luggable, and Immoveable.
Pocket is your cell phone, your pda, your blackberry. They fit in your pocket, so they're easy to take anywhere.
Portable is too big to fit in your pocket, but small enough to fit easily in your carry-on bag or backpack.
Luggable is like the old style "portable" computer, a big-ass destkop with a built in keyboard and a handle. Designed to be moved around, but not something you'll take on an airplane. For this reason you rarely see it anymore, though you could say that some of the bigger "desktop replacement" machines fall in this category.
Immoveable is a system not designed to be moved, your PC with a separate keyboard, mouse, monitor, and a mess of cords connecting them.
This device falls squarely in the Portable category. It's too big to fit in your pocket, so you're going to have to have a bag to carry it in. If you're sticking it in your backpack or briefcase, then an ultrathin notebook is going to fit better than a taller but narrower device, and give you more screen/keyboard real estate.
That's what the argument is. Laptop vs desktop is something portable vs something not. This device is not a signficant change in portability over a notebook. Just like there are different form factors within the broad category of "portable", there may be room for this new form factor in the portable regime. But it doesn't appear to offer any advantage in portability over other ultra-portables, while making a screen and keyboard size sacrifice more similar to that made for Pocket devices. Thus this is an odd and ungainly choice of form factor, not suited well to either of the categories it straddles.
The enemies of Democracy are
Am I the only person on the planet who finds laptops an ideal size. Good screen estate for working with, a little smaller than I'd like TBH but hey, it's portable. If I wanted something smaller I would have, wait for it, bought a smaller laptop.
*bang head against wall*
If I wanted something much smaller, I'd have bought a Psion Revo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Revo ), which isn't some twisted halfbreed between a laptop and a PDA (it's more what PDAs were, before someone got handwriting recognition working well, and suits those of us who can type significantly faster than they can write).
Isn't he the guy who ran the Trailblazers into the ground, lost their arena during bankruptcy, and is begging the city to subsidize them? Finally, he brings his management genius to the palmtop race.
I swear, if you say that management is like a college coaching staff, Microsoft would be Duke. The main guy (Coach K) is really good, but his high profile mentees are pretty awful (Synder at Missouri, Amaker at Michigan).
ceci n'est pas un sig.
The reason for the size of a laptop is it needs to be large enough to be useful. The reason for handhelds is they are portable and fit in a pocket. This device appears to be in the middle and not server either purpose. Is this a joke or a hoax?
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
Next Sunday, A.D., right?
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
I'll use my O2 XDA Mini S as an example here its a small phone as you can see it doesn't rival this machine in specs, far from it but it like many others do a good job of working on the go. Most of the current brand of PPC's all use Word Mobile, support pop3,imap,hotmail and pocket explorer. It helps me write reports, make spreadsheets on the fly when I need to but the keyboard (very similar to the one in TFA) isn't good for long term work, I don't mind taking the occasional notes in class on it but if I had a choice between my laptop and it, I'd want my laptop. These range of PPC's (all networks do their own versions) already allow a person to do much of what this device wants, I even think that WM5 does it really really well. There also free on the £30 tariffs, and usually less than £100 on lower tariffs, this is £1000 and doesn't get you all those free minutes or texts.
When I want to do real work I want a mouse, a keypad that lets me use all my fingers and a 12"+ screen that why I don't think PPC's will be moving on much further, screen size has become a growing limitation with them. Tablet Pc's fill the void between PPC's and Laptops and we see these arent particulary popular
...sure got real pricey now didn't they? ;P So that's what old Negroponte was up to in the back room...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
check out the sony ux or the OQO2. This already exists and is very cool. I use a UX as my primary machine. I dock at my desk and pick it up and walk away with desktop functionality in my pocket.
I simply cannot understand the stupidity .... This certainly proves (what I have long suspected) that Paul was just lucky, and intelligence has nothing to do with his fortune.
"The product will launch on FlipStart.com in the not too distant future."
Fixed.
Somebody invested in this idea? Sheesh. I am 100% certain I could do a better job if somebody gave me the start-up capitol. Of course, I'd be making an entirely different product.
The first thing I'd do is to establish who my market is. Mine would be people looking for a dedicated word processor/reader with internet abilities.
My machine would have these features. . .
1. No moving parts! (Other than the keyboard and flip top.) It would have no Hard Drive or CD/DVD drives. It would run on removable memory cards.
2. A touchpad and a 9" keyboard. Yes, 9" is bigger than a PDA, but it is smaller than a laptop. Think a sub-notebook but without all the billion bells and whistles. Something you can actually type on properly. The primary purpose here is word processing and document reading.
3. It would run a version of Linux designed specifically for the system. It would have both basic and advanced versions, (you choose while setting up your device). The Basic OS would work like a standard Palm OS so that anybody could make it run, and the Advanced would give experienced users the ability to do whatever they wanted with the system. Hiring excellent programmers would be a major focus.
4. It would use the latest battery tech. Long battery life is essential. The old Jornada 800's, (similar in design) could run for about 6-10 hours depending on usage. I think, using today's technology we could do about the same, given that the CPU would be faster and screen a bit brighter. 6-10 hours is pretty good.
5. PCMCIA card access, so you can plug in a wireless card. The OS would be prepped up to handle it and cards made optional add-ons. The little guy would have a basic phone modem built in.
6. USB2, Firewire, Ethernet ports.
7. A headphone jack.
8. Rugged, but not over 1" thick.
9. A 9" screen.
10. Whatever the most power-efficient, older generation X64 CPU we could find is; something you can get for chump change. Maybe in the 500 Mhz range.
11. Instant on/instant off.
12. 64 Mb of working memory. For websurfing and wordprocessing, that's plenty, and it'll cost very little. Extra memory can be added with dynamic memory cards.
That's it!
When you cut out CD and hard drives, top-notch processors, gobs of memory and crazy video-cards, as well as not having to pay an OS license, the finished product could probably sell for under $600.
Or maybe I'm deluding myself. Am I the only one who'd be happy with such a device? I don't want to watch movies on my portable. I just want to be able to write and surf on the go. I spent $300 on a used Jornada 800, and it's fantastic, but an updated version would be marvelous.
-FL
The Nokia 9XXX machines are basically next generation Psions with a phone built in. The 9300 has a usable but not good keyboard. The 9500 is better, but obviously bigger.
It fits in the pocket and can do pretty much everything a laptop can do. The really massive benefit though isn't readily apparent. That is, you always have all your data with you.
Deleted
If you use the WayBackMachine there is a picture which might be what this device will likely look like:w ww.flipstart.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20040622161920/http://
Adventure City Tours
When Psion pulled their devices out of the market, they said they would be back when the rest of the world caught up to them....perhaps this is just the signal they need? Unfortunately, Epoc became Symbian, which is now a beast compared to the old mx device days....
Once it gets above a certain size (too big to fit in a suit pocket or purse) you'll have to carry it in something, so you might as well go the whole hog and get a proper laptop. Not to say that such things as the Toshiba Libretto aren't cute, though.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
told me everything I need to know.
Where there is visual frippery and distraction, sound engineering is surely not to follow.
And the thing's plug ugly to boot.
Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
A hard drive because it needs to swap due to Windows memory needs and usage patterns.
I have no problem running my 2GB RAM desktop with a 0GB swap file and it runs nice and smooth. The HD is not needed for Windows' swapping, it's needed for Windows (and all the other software you want to use). An interesting concept, though, would be to use flash memory instead of a hard drive to store the OS - now that would be a fast compact system!
These 'mega rich' people are just out of touch with the rest of the world. A 2000$ oversized ( rather clunky looking ) PDA? I dont think so.
Ever hear of the newton ? Oh wait, this is Paul Allen, of course he didnt watch watch Apple was doing, and is doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Wait a minute. Maybe there's a better name for the thing.
;-)
If I remember right, one of Allen's other ventures tried to launch another sub-sub-notebook lookalike some years before. It also was supposed to cost $2000. It also was supposed to run Windows.
Considering that a Sharp Zaurus
http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/main.shtml
costs around $800 in the U.S. and that the Zaurus seems to be similar in form factor and capabilities. It just doesn't run Windows. So with the FlipStart, this is a hefty $1200 premium just to run Windows.
I'd rather prefer to call Allen's latest baby "FlipFlop".
Walter.
P.S. Some kind of Windows obsession with Paul Allen has to be understood, of course. But then again, he might be doing this kind of projects just to get some tax-deductible expenses.
They won't last.. They will work for a few years and then break. We need something better than LCD before this kind of unfixable, unserviceable little plastic creakbox will be considered reliable enough for business use or durable enough to be bought as a personal toy. All laptops suffer from missing scan lines when the sellotape they use to assemble the screen comes away. This one will be impossible to fix when dropped or when left in a car and the movement stress area connecting the screen, or the sticky tapes carrying the signal to the rows and columns, pulls away unnaturally. Psions have suffered from this problem for years. So this is an insignificant and unoriginal gizmo.
And the $1000 laptop can't even do what the $500 desktop could...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
This looks like a mid-eighties handheld - stylewise. If it where as cheap as an old handheld (remember that late Atari handheld? That was kinda cool) and run just as long it would be cool. The thickness aparently doesn't transfer to offgrid runtime and the price-tag is prohibitive. The OQO is kinda cute for those who have the cash - but this is just ugly. And won't fly.
Talking about Pocket Computer uptime: My Sharp PC-1403 H runs 150 hrs. on batteries. My Palm runs aprox. 20 hrs. And that's the minimum I can bear. Until a device comes close to that I won't buy it.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Shameless plug; I work for this company.
Thaddeus Computing will buy your Used Handheld, refurbish it, and sell it. Some of these do give me a sort of "They don't make 'em like this anymore" feeling -- little DOS handhelds that are faster than modern PocketPCs because, although they run at 3 mhz tops, DOS doesn't have to do as much as Windows Mobile does.
Right now, I've borrowed an HP Jornada 720 and a wireless card. It comes with Windows CE, but I run a distro based on Debian ARM on it.
And that's where I find things like this brick to be stupid -- why go out of your way to allow an x86 OS to run on it when you can just port the OS? I guess if you're locked into the Windows world, that's a problem, but with source code available to so many things I depend on, it really can be as simple as "just recompile it". Hell, I could even run Firefox on this thing, if I liked pain (Firefox doesn't play nice with 32 megs of RAM...)
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
JK On the run has a video of it in action. apart from his very amateurish video work, you get a pretty good appreciation of the device.
in summary... powerful but chunky!
Seriously, build me a laptop with:
1. A full-size screen that uses available light
2. A full-size keyboard
3. A wireless net connection
4. A USB connection
5. Flash memory--no hard disk
6. Linux or Plan 9
That would be a winner in my book; a light, portable, comfortable system. This thing manages to combine the disadvantages of a laptop and a PDA.
Trying to compare the Vulcan to a laptop somewhat misses the point of a device of this size and portability.
1) This device *will* fit into my coat pocket.
2) It isn't meant to be sat down on a desk. Hold it in both hands and thumb-type on it. That takes care of both the screen resolution problem and the complaints about the keyboard. That's how I use the Zaurus clamshells, and I love it. Thumb typing is fast and I don't have to look for a surface to set the thing down on before I can use it - just try that with your laptop!
That's where earlier ultra-portables like the Libretto U100 and the Sony Picturebook failed - they were too big to use without setting them down. You can't thumb-type on them because they're too wide and holding them in one hand and pecking on them with the other was uncomfortable and unstable. And even when you sat them down on a table, you still couldn't touch type unless you were a 12-year old girl. Also, the ultra-high resolution of the screens (the 7" 1280x720 screen on the Libretto is nearly 200 dpi) is too small to use off of desk, but just about right in the hands, so you could only read it if you were holding it.
The 1.1ghz CPU is plenty of horsepower - it's the same CPU as the Libretto and that will take anything I throw at it.
1024x600 is a usable resolution - finally. The 800x480 of the Kohjinsha and OQO, and 640x480 of the Zaurus just doesn't cut it. The 1280x720 of the Libretto (1280x800 in the Macbook) is nice, but would probably be too much for a pocketable device. 1024x600 is a minimal usefull resolution, but it is genuinely useful.
I want one of these things and want it pretty badly. The drawbacks being that the price is ridiculous - the same specs can be had in a Sony UX for $1000 less while also nabbing you a better docking station and touchscreen - and the 512mb of ram. Like the screen, 512mb is a usable minimum. Unlike the screen, there's no reason whatsoever to have compromised the size of the ram like that.
Given the price and ram limitations, I'll probably end up replacing my Libretto/Zaurus combo with a Sony UX for now. Doesn't mean that I won't be dreaming of the clamshell goodness offered by a future V2-non-braindead revision of the Vulcan, though.
Looks bulky and unpractical for such an "innovate product", by looking at the specs vs cost it's just a giant mp3 player...... I wonder how much money is this guy gonna loose?
RUPERT! I TOLD YOU TO WATCH THE BAGS! You were looking at the boys again, WEREN'T YOU.
I remember the FlipStart they showed the device at DEMO 2004. Three years seems like a long development cycle. Watch the video to see their original concept.
my first internship in college was testing on winmobile devices for a network company in seattle... they had some OLD ass legacy devices, like the mini vaios and stuff... they were almost unusable, as i'm sure this thing is. (tiny, barely raised buttons? is the keyboard designed for spider monkeys?) also, does anyone else think it looks suspiciously like the hardware styling was done in like 95? i really cant see ANYONE wanting to own one of these.
Microsoft promised us $500 UMPCs a year or two ago, and we ended up with $1500 UMPCs a few months after that. They have done poorly because of their high price point and because they are not competitive in terms of power with mcuh less expensive laptops.
I'm glad they've solved the cost problem by adding another $500 to the price tag. I bet they'll be a big success this time around.
or else!
"Really, FlipStart gives you everything that your laptop does"
It doesn't have OS X. So no. It doesn't give me everything my notebook does.
This sig kills fascists.
is apparently as dumb and non-innovative as ever.
I can hardly believe how expensive the thing is.
For that price you can get a MacBook, an iPhone, and an iPod video and still have change left over.
I would love to see a study of one FlipStart user over one year vs one iPhone user over one year. What did they do with it? How did it make them more productive?
It's a Zaurus SL-C, but less sexy!
Psion did hardware of this nature years ago. It was a sad day indeed when they stopped doing hardware to focus exclusively on the Simbian OS.
I am unimpressed. The device looks like Flybook for double the price (I own two of them). They even have the same screen resolution and the same CPU. I would expect more originality and innovation from Paul Allen.