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There are at least a couple on the market. My nomad II mas a small mic (look for the pin hole just below the wheel on the picture in the link), and the archos jukebox recorder has a line in for recording.

IIRC, Sony never sold a "Network" or "Memory Stick" Walkman that directly supported MP3 or non-DRM sticks. They all convert MP3s to ATRAC3 before uploading.

Interesting note: The Network Walkman is the only Memory Stick device that forces DRM. Clies will play MP3 or ATRAC3. VAIOs with built-in stick readers typically support MagicGate, but add-on readers (USB, PC Card, or floppy) don't. However, Memory Sticks are removable drives to the OS, so you just have to mount, navigate to PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO/, and tune in.

Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

You remind them every time you vote with your wallet. Instead of buying an NW-MS9, buy a Nomad. Or an Archos Jukebox. Or an iPod, if you're in that 5% of the market enclosed in the JRDF. Let them know that, given a choice, consumers will choose the path of most convenience. (See also: Circuit City DiVX vs. DVD) Maybe if everybody imposed DRM as vigorously as Sony, the Network Walkman would be competitive. As it stands now, their only customers are members of Hillary Rosen's immediate family.

(Sure, USB 2.0 can do it-- but who has USB 2.0 support on their MP3 player?)

Pros:
- 20 GB drive
- USB2 (i.e. Firewire speeds, but still backwards compatible with ubiquitous USB1 when you need it)
- Records :-)
- 10 hour life
- Usable as portable harddrive; you can put non-MP3 files on there and get them off again (unlike iPod)
- Cheaper: US$369

Cons:
- 350g

Summary:
It ain't as small & sexy as an iPod, but it's undoubtably more useful. ALL your music on tap (OK, a lot of it at least), a portable drive that plugs anywhere and is usably fast, and it records too :-)

The new Archos Recoder 20 looks nice as well. Anyone have any experience with Archos?

-z

Archos has a 20GB mp3 player/recorder (analog and digital hardware mp3 encoding on the fly), it's only slightly larger than the iPod and uses USB2.0 (about 12MB/sec, not firewire but a vast improvement over USB1.0).

It's $369 and available Feb. 1

http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_500277.h tml
http://www.archos.com/order_desk_na.html

-z

Archos has a 20GB mp3 player/recorder (analog and digital hardware mp3 encoding on the fly), it's only slightly larger than the iPod and uses USB2.0 (about 12MB/sec, not firewire but a vast improvement over USB1.0).

It's $369 and available Feb. 1

http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_500277.h tml
http://www.archos.com/order_desk_na.html

-z

Personally, I'm waiting for one of these... MP3, WMA, Mpeg4 on a tiny 320x240 LCD Just the thing for the morning train commute.

Their latest gadget is really neat: high speed transfers via USB2.0 (I'd prefer FireWire, but...), and it can do MP3 music quality recording and encoding right in the box. They are a bit bigger than the iPod, but so is the Rio probably.

Everything has to be compared violently to Apple, eh? Kill the iMac and kill the iPod! :)

What might be a killer product but not an iPod killer is the Jukebox Multimedia - Portable Entertainment Center. Archos makes some interesting products. I have an Archos Jukebox 6000 but now use an iPod -- its nice but the size and firewire device of the iPod make it my choice. The Jukebox Multimedia - Portable Entertainment Center is a handheld entertainment center, which combines an MP3 and WMA music player and recorder, plus built-in microphone, photo album and carousel, still camera and camcorder, plus video player and recorder according to their web site. The player has a 10 Gig hard drive. It uses USB 1.0, USB 2.0 and Firewire for transfering information back and forth. It even has a little LCD window to view pictures and movies on the device. Looks like it is the same size as the Riot. Could be a nice data wallet/purse.

I can't understand why Slashdot is focussed on this device, which doesn't support most operating systems and is non-hardware upgradeable and therefore limited to a tiny 5gb of storage space.

How many times do we have to say Archos Archos Archos!!

For those who don't wish to follow the link - it points to the Archos jukebox recorder 20, which has a 20Gb disk drive and can record from analog or digital sources direct to MP3. The disk drive is a standard 9.5mm height 2.5" IDE drive (why do we always specify height in metric but diameter/width in imperial?) and so can be replaced with a 40Gb drive if required, and presumably bigger ones in a fe months time as they become available..

It's no more expensive than the iPod and works with Mac, Windows or Linux, doubling as an external hard drive.

I just don't get it..

Q.

As i was reading the article, i thought the item was a fake (all those badly rendered images), so i went to archos's site and here is the official page on the device. however, it still sounds like vapor to me.

Due Q1 2002....and no mention of price.

This is obviously a marketing ploy, and a sign they have been hit hard by the release of the iPod. The specs on this thing will be in flux for months, and it could never really see the light of day. Archos is playing catch up...isn't that cool :)

Is there some reason you didn't link to the Archos site instead?

Where they talk about future products?

This thing will be high price and high weight and low battery life....it's already a dead duck.

Too bad Apple has already left the building.

Why complain about the Treo? I got my 20 Gg MP3 player at http://www.archos.com/. It works fantastic.....I have 4 gigs of songs, more than I could ever need, as well as a backup of all my important files, like my resume!!!!! A USB connector and cig-lighter power lets this thing go from work to car so I can listen to tunes on the ride home. Has anyone else got this as well?

What is this, an ad for the iPod?

Seriously, anyone with a PC and/or lacking Firewire should check out the Archos Jukebox. 20GB, USB 2.0, recording. File transfers. Works great.

Archo is SCMS compliant (link), from our friend of the riaa (link)

Perhaps not SDMI, but SCMS http://www.archos.com/uk/support/tech_jbrec_rh.htm l...

Just a little problem with archos:
he implement SCMS. see http://www.archos.com/uk/support/tech_jbrec_rh.htm l

mp3.com reviews a large selection of mp3 players, many of which are not SDMI.
Any combo hard-drive/mp3 player like the neo jukebox, the archos or the nomad jukebox can't be SDMI compliant.

And of course, no SDMI anywhere in sight.

Have you upgraded to the latest firmware (1.21d) listed on their page, yet? I'd be curious as to what, exactly, "Serial Copyright Management System", and how it affects the usefulness of this device.

I get the Archos from the car, plug it into her computer via USB. Drag & drop file transfer.

You hear the song, you want it then. If it sticks to you, later you buy the album to get more.

Altough the software still has a few minor bugs, it is a very good box (don't forget you get a *real* usb hard drive for your money also). I have the Archos Jukebox Recorder which I primarly use for professional audio recording (yes, that's right, we use it to create live cuts of our DJ sets at various clubs). At the studio, I just plug the recorder into the workstation, and upload the realtime-encoded MP3s to the web. Unfortunately, the Jukebox Recorder only does VBR encoding, but with around 170kbps it is sufficent.

Cheers,
Timo

It is a little bulky for carying around, but is great for use in the car and office.

At least thats what thinkgeek claims here. Too bad it is not officially supported by archos. The drivers are here.

There is a company making software for iPod for Windows but you really need a Mac to experience the real power of this amazing MP3 player. So the best gift I think you can give this holiday season is an iBook w/ and iPod. Apple Flavored UNIX and Firewire Music, what a great gift!

P.S. Steve Jobs wants me to say, "Don't Steal Music!".

it just amounts to more people shouting out "here's something you can only do on a Mac."

This would hold so much more wieght if essentially the same product wasn't available from the wintel crowd... I've had one of these for a year now. Granted, it lacks firewire, but the size is about the same and the capacity is quite a bit more. Current versions are 20g. Did I mention it costs roughly half as much?

Honestly, I'm not sure what the big event is here...

The Archos 6GB recorder mentioned further up the page does exactly that. The Creative/Nomad Jukebox also has a mic input, but (AFAIK) only records to WAV.

I was about to buy a Jukebox Studio 20 when i heard about this new iPod. Could Slashdot readers give their opinion about the 2 players, Pros and Cons about both systems?
I'm still wondering which one to buy..

Here is the link to the Jukebox Studio 20:
http://www.archos.com/uk/products/product_500205.h tml

Thanks in advance.
-J

iPod 5GB: 4" x 2.4" x .78" at 6.5oz, $400
Archos 6GB: 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3" at 12oz, $250
Archos 20GB: 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3" at 12oz, $370

Just how much is that size/weight difference worth to you?

iPod 5GB: 4" x 2.4" x .78" at 6.5oz, $400
Archos 6GB: 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3" at 12oz, $250
Archos 20GB: 4.5" x 3.2" x 1.3" at 12oz, $370

Just how much is that size/weight difference worth to you?

Archos 6GB MP3 Player/USB hard drive - $249 from the manufacturer
Archos 20GB MP3 Player/USB hard drive - $369 from the manufacturer

So you're paying $150 more for a slightly smaller size and Firewire (their 6GB Firewire drive (no MP3) is $229), or $30 more for a slightly smaller size and Firewire, with 25% of the space. And your combination, at $60 less (the price of a 128MB flash card and 4 high capacity NiMH AA batteries) can also be used to store digital camera pictures, which is a big advantage. So where's the advantage of the iPod? Sure you can transfer the MP3 files over faster (which you wouldn't be doing frequently anyway), but only if you have an "Apple computer with built-in FireWire port" running "Mac OS 9.2.1 (or later) or Mac OS X v10.1 (or later)." Ok, you can use it as a $229 portable Firewire hard drive, but that is only an advantage if you need a Firewire hard drive and an MP3 player at the same time - otherwise you can get two devices, one for each use (12GB total), for $80 more, or some other combination to fit your needs. So really, this is only a good deal if you specifically need the exact capabilities of this device.

Archos 6GB MP3 Player/USB hard drive - $249 from the manufacturer
Archos 20GB MP3 Player/USB hard drive - $369 from the manufacturer

So you're paying $150 more for a slightly smaller size and Firewire (their 6GB Firewire drive (no MP3) is $229), or $30 more for a slightly smaller size and Firewire, with 25% of the space. And your combination, at $60 less (the price of a 128MB flash card and 4 high capacity NiMH AA batteries) can also be used to store digital camera pictures, which is a big advantage. So where's the advantage of the iPod? Sure you can transfer the MP3 files over faster (which you wouldn't be doing frequently anyway), but only if you have an "Apple computer with built-in FireWire port" running "Mac OS 9.2.1 (or later) or Mac OS X v10.1 (or later)." Ok, you can use it as a $229 portable Firewire hard drive, but that is only an advantage if you need a Firewire hard drive and an MP3 player at the same time - otherwise you can get two devices, one for each use (12GB total), for $80 more, or some other combination to fit your needs. So really, this is only a good deal if you specifically need the exact capabilities of this device.

something like that exists, it's the Archos Jukebox . It's a 6Gb portable mp3 player. There's also a site out there that can convert it to a 20Gb player for another $100 ... i just can't remember which site right now.

I could have been FP but I bothered to read...

I was wondering what /.'ers have experienced re: Archos mp3 players/recorders, aside from the aforementioned inverse-power-polarity-blows-it-up. Good? Bad? Ugly?

I recall that when the RIAA lost their suit to keep the original Diamond mp3 portable player off the market, there was a voluntary agreement among some player mfg.s to include only voice-quality recording on the devices. It wasn't part of any settlement, law or contract but seemed to be self-regulation.

There are now high fidelity mp3 recorders. The Archos Jukebox Recorder is one that records to hard drive so you can fit entire concerts on it without having to change a DAT or MiniDisc.

I've always wondered what the beef with hi-fi analog-in mp3 recorders would be in the first place. Digital recorders have been around for a while and the only objection has been on their digital inputs. Faster-than-realtime access to the music (not possible with DAT/DCC/MiniDisc) makes swapping the music easier, but hard disc recorders (including ultraportable laptops with hi-fi audio i/o) have been around for a while, also without objection.

While I've only seen the record-feature-missing Archos Jukebox with my own eyes, Archos does make the Recorder version available on their website, seemingly without complaint or objection from the RIAA.

-M

Good luck to them prosecuting me, I'm not American and will happily never visit ANY country which would extradite me to the US for breaching the DMCA by playing my music on my Linux supported mp3 player/USB hard disk.

Actually it's Archos and their website is avaiable at http://www.archos.com

I have an Archos Jukebox 6000, which is essentially a USB HD with the ability to play MP3s. Granted it doesn't have all the expandability that this thing does, but you can get one for a third of the price ($200).

I find it very handy to transfer up to 6GB of files from work to home, and play MP3s in my car while doing so.

What I'd really like is for my Archos to be merged with my Handspring. I don't understand why no-one has done this yet. Add in Bluetooth connectivity to my phone, and I'd be a happy man. That would solve pretty much all my portable electronic needs.

For those who don't want to buy the iPAQ, Hard drive, and enclosure, you can just get the Archos 6G handheld mp3 jukebox and it's practically the same, without all the extra wires and crap. It can send music to the car stereo in the same way as the setup outlined in the article.

it's a lot cheaper, too.

Archos Website

east_bay_pete

Well Archos sell a nifty MP3 player built arround a hard drive that can be had for $250 or thereabouts with discounts that also doubles as a 6Gb USB drive. Not only does it not require the overpriced docking station you can use it to play tunes.

Don't even bring up the "portable" firewire and USB hard drives, because not only are they MUCH larger, they are MUCH heavier, and require MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE POWER.

Nope, thing runs for 8 hours on the internal batteries (NiMH) and is smaller than my Palm VII on two dimensions whilst being only slightly thicker.

Now IOM are offering slightly more capacity, but Archos have been out for several months now and I'll wager that a 12Gb disk will not be long coming.

For long term archival storage I just go down to CostCo and plonk a 60Gb drive in my cart, take it home, run a backup then take it offline and store it in the firesafe. Total cost $180, I keep a second in my desk drawer in the office. Vastly cheaper than any tape system and much more reliable.

I cannot imagine any need that I have that the IOM drive solves for me. I use my archos box for really big file transfers and CompactFlash (or the Internet) for the rest.

IBMs 1Gb compact flash drive has enough capacity for any imaginable still photography needs I might have. If they could get the price down low they would also be good enough for my video needs too.

As an exercise I actually tried taking videos with a simulated 2Gb cartridge - I cut a box of 10 DV tapes down to 2 minutes so that I had to keep changing the cartridge. It was not all that bad.

My prefered video solution would still consist of a detached CCD head and optics connected to a hip mounted battery pack and hard drive.

... IOMEGA may just has a 20gb solution coming

So Real Soon Now, I can get an incompatible 20 gig drive, that is almost as fast, nearly as small and more expensive than the one Archos has been selling for months? Why, I only have to buy three disks at $200 a pop, and I'm saving money!

Wow! how can anyone pass this up?

In the portable MP3 world that would cost me, assuming $50 per 64 meg memory card and I can put what, 2 CD in that space?, that would be 25 cards or $1250.

Think again. Current MP3 players store 6 GB (100 CDs @128kbit), cost $350, are about the same size as your MD player (smaller but thicker), double as portable harddisks and last for 8 hours on a charge.

Use the Archos Jukebox 6000 instead. It has a few similarities to the Nomad: it's an MP3 player built onto a ~6 GB laptop hard drive, which interfaces with your PC via USB.

However, there are a number of differences which make it better IMHO. The Archos appears as a FAT32 formatted drive with a drive letter, to which you can drag and drop your MP3 files and directories (yes, that's right: directories, nested as deeply as you like). The Nomad has a proprietary closed means of getting the music to the device, and you need to use their special software to do it. And since the Archos is just a USB hard drive to the computer, you can use it to store more than just MP3s. The display for the Archos is smaller than for the Nomad, but full text of the song title (ID3 tag info) will scroll past, so that's no sticking point.

Windows 2000/98 treats the Archos as a USB storage device, loading the appropriate drivers for that. This is at least a degree closer to being hackable than the way Creative does it. I think most linux hackers would prefer to write a driver for a generic USB storage device than write a driver for a proprietary device with a narrow range of usefulness. Also, Archos, or the people who they license their USB bridge technology from, may be more willing than Creative to open up their interfaces for writing open-sourced drivers.

Here's some links:
Archos website
Review of Archos Jukebox 6000 at Fun MP3 Players

For alternatives, look at Archos 6000.

Cheaper. And can double as a portable USB hard drive! Don't know if the USB protocol is open though, but I don't think archos need to guard the specs like Creative do.

The archos jukebox 6000 which is supposed to have excellent sound quality and pretty similar battery life to the nomad jukebox and 100 dollars cheaper.

The pjb which superior to the nomad jukebox, (longer battery life and comes highly recommended), thinkgeek sell this, very expensive ($690 I think)

And also you should keep an eye out for the treo which is going to be pretty gun, 8 hours of battery life, tiny, the next incarnation of the pjb and only $400 dollars

Also there is the neo-25 which is cheap, but only got mixed reviews, so I would be a bit careful about buying it.

Cheers
Sam