New Clie Handhelds from Sony

A Commentor writes: "Sony has release two new handhelds including a super slim high-res color model, which has 16M and "AV Remote Control feature". It is also covered at news.com." Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown.

Comments

Mix it with Ericsson

[Anonymous Coward]

Mix it with Ericsson's mobile phones and you have a hit; after all that is what their consortium is all about I guess.

for the price

[sroddy]

I sure wish these were around when I bought my palm pilot. I paid $450 for my palm Vx a year and a half ago.

Re:for the price

[Anonymous Coward]

And I sure wish these were around back in '97 when I bought my palm. I paid $300 for my PalmPilot Personal.

You're a loser. Who gives a shit?! Quit your whining and shut the fuck up.

Remote Control

[Nick Number]

There's already shareware out there that allows you to use a Palm's IR port as a remote control. I only get a range of about 10 feet with my Visor Deluxe though. Hopefully these new ones will work from across the room.

Re:Remote Control

[Sc00ter]

the IR for data transfer and the IR for controlling your TV are in different parts of the spectrum, that's why you Visor and most Palms for that matter don't do a good job at controlling your TV. You can get an IR transmitter for a Visor that fits into the springboard slot that's in the correct part of the spectrum.

Re:Remote Control

[alanh]

The new CLIE's have a stronger IR LED than previous Palms.

Re:Remote Control

[tit4tat]

Sony's website states that the range is ~15 feet. Whether or not that's "across the room" will depend on the size of your room.... ;)

Re:Remote Control

[karnal]

I haven't done any real research on this, but..

WHAT???

Now that I have that out of my system, I must say -- I was always under the understanding that the Palm IR couldn't control the items from a distance because of the weaker IR. The palms don't need a really strong IR interface -- let's face it, the original design was just to beam applications/business cards, and mebby hotsync with a laptop (which is the coolest use, IMHO).

I know that OmniRemote sells an IR device for the Palm, and I believe it uses it's own batteries (save on yours!)

Re:Remote Control

[Nick Number]

the IR for data transfer and the IR for controlling your TV are in different parts of the spectrum, that's why you Visor and most Palms for that matter don't do a good job at controlling your TV. You can get an IR transmitter for a Visor that fits into the springboard slot that's in the correct part of the spectrum.

True, but 60 bucks is a little steep when you can get a universal remote for around 10 at Radio Shack.

Now what these things would really be good for is cheating at laser tag. Too bad it's gone out of fashion.

Re:Remote Control

[Liquid(TJ)]

Well, seeing as how I spent my rent money on handhelds, This thing should have no problem controling the TV from across the refrigerator box!

Re:Remote Control

[Anonymous Coward]

I tested the B/W 415 and am happy to report that the remote works VERY well and I had no problem using it from about 15-20 feet away. :)

Re:Remote Control

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had no trouble at all with the shareware remote control. It accepted the commands easily and worked from around 30 feet away. In fact, it was alot of fun a few nights ago to watch my wife trying to change the channel with the regular tv remote while I kept switching it back with my Visor :)

Re:Remote Control

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else think it's odd that Sony's web page lists a "NO" in the PEG-N760C column for Universal Remote Feature?

HandEra!!!

[Ender_Stonebender]

Sorry, but in my book, the HandEra 330 takes the crown for coolest Palm-compatible PDA. 240X320 screen, virtual Graffiti area. All it's missing is color.

Ender

Re:HandEra!!!

[Gambit Thirty-Two]

I know how you feel. When i was tossing around ideas on what to upgrade to, i was jumping between the s320 clie and a handera 330. The old palm IIIe was a bit outdated, and i needed more than 2megs of space.

Handera's virtual graffiti was what almost won me over. That is DAMNED impressive, and i can say that in all the achievements that these new models have been coming out with, the retractable gf area is the most appealing.

I decided to go with the S320 though. The memory stick was very appealing to me, and with sony's promises for a memorystick camera and gps, i decided it was worth the investment. however, now those are only going to be available for the 600/700 models, i feel i may have made the wrong choice. too late now.

I wanted to get a handheld that was different than the typical palms and handsprings. To me, 2001 showed no vast improvements to the handhelds of those two product lines. More memory, and better color screens. Whoopie. Palm found it necessary to flood the market with very similar handhelds... m100, m105, m125, m500... only big difference is the memory and the availability of a memory slot. There was no single new improvement that REALLY made it worth upgrading this past year.

For the most part, unless you drop or sit on your handheld, theres no real need to upgrade. PalmOS based systems do the same stuff. OS changes arent significant enough to make it worth buying a handheld just for the upgrade. If you've got a memory expansion slot, then theres virtually no reason to upgrade. Need more memory? pop in a bigger memorystick or compact flash and sell the old one on ebay. There are numerous applications now that let you run your apps right off these expansion cards, so thats not even a drawback now.

I honestly feel that palm has to slow down and focus more on what they're putitng into their products to make them stand out and be different. Achievements that set them apart from the other PalmOS models, and from their own previous product line. Just adding more memory is not enough for me to dump my current unit and upgrade.

Re:HandEra!!!

[motardo]

you also forgot "big as a brick" :)

-motardo

Re:HandEra!!!

[rsmartin]

"All it's missing is color."

And 320x320 screen resolution

-Rich

Re:HandEra!!!

[Chelloveck]

When I went looking for a new Palm last summer, I looked long and hard at both the Handera 330 and the Sony 710. The virtual Grafitti area is sweet; I wish other manufacturers would come out with it. But two things drew me to buy the Sony instead.

1. The Handera's 240-pixel width isn't an integer multiple of the standard 160-pixel width. To view standard low-res Palm apps in full-screen mode means the machine must scale by 1.5. In some of my tests, this caused bitmaps to look really bad. The Sony's 320-pixel width is exactly double the standard. While doubling the pixels makes things look blocky, they still look better than a stock color Palm or Visor.
2. The Sony's screen had much better contrast in all lighting conditions. I wanted a hi-res screen specifically so I could read books. Sony's screen wins, no question.

The Memory Stick format blows. I really wish Sony would adopt something the rest of the world agreed with. But frankly, the 8MB stick included with the 710 is more than enough for me. I just treat it an extra non-removable 8MB of storage anyway, so it doesn't really matter that it's incompatible with everything else I own. For my uses (books, once again; I don't care about MP3s) the stick is fine.

Re:HandEra!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

The killer advantage to the Handera is that it now supports the CompactFlash 802.11b cards. I
have the Symbol version in my HE330 right now
and it sure is sweet.

When's that Sony 802.11b Memory Stick coming out?

Re:HandEra!!!

[llamalicious]

For those who want an easier to use setup for Graffiti, try ScreenWrite, it's a hack (so you'll need hackmaster)

ScreenWrite has some nice features, "local echo" of your graffiti, so you can see it... making the whole screen a writing area, Caps/lowercase detected by size of your characters, etc... I'd highly recommend it.

or, if you just want a whole different HW recognition engine, try Jot.

As for new palm pilots, I'm still loving my Palm III with 2MB. For simple PIM apps it's great, and overclocking it makes my favorite breakout-style games run awesome.

Re:HandEra!!!

[carling_ZA]

...
The Memory Stick format blows...

I just got a 770 (the UK version) two weeks ago. And the main reason I went for the Sony, is exactly the thing that most people won't like: the memory stick. I already own a Sony digital camera, and my work laptop is Sony Viao. When faced with the choice of a Palm or another PDA, running the same OS but supporting my existing portable storage, there was really no choice, it just made sense to be able to move mp3's, images, and movies easily between these devices (even though the movie player is so bad it's almost unusable)

I expect that Sony invented the memory stick specifically for suckers like me. Once I had one device using (semi?)proprietary technology, I had to continue buying the same brand.

PS. Travelling (and commuting) lots, I must admit to loving the MP3 player - and it will be even better once a (the next?) version of Palm OS is released allowing me to listen to MP3's and use other apps at the same time.

Re:HandEra!!!

[pbiba]

You can listen to MP3s and use the other apps at the same time! Go into the audio player and set options/preferences to background play.

Re:HandEra!!!

[Guillaume Ross]

I prefer having a rectangular screen on a handheld, as it allows for a bigger (physical) screen.

Re:HandEra!!!

[abischof]

Actually, FWIW, ScreenWrite v2 uses "Inkverse Extensions" instead of HackMaster.

Re:HandEra!!!

[hacker]

Handera's virtual graffiti was what almost won me over. That is DAMNED impressive, and i can say that in all the achievements that these new models have been coming out with, the retractable gf area is the most appealing.

Thank you. This was originally my idea back in 1998, when #palmchat was still on Dalnet. I was complaining of the waste of screen real-estate, and constantly brought that up as a possible alternative. Apparently they listened. At least my ideas are making their way around now. I'm sure people who were there have logs going back that far, you can validate it. This was long before TRG, Handera's previous name even existed.

"remote control feature" not a new thing...

[Wakko Warner]

Any Palm with infrared (which is just about any Palm) should be able to do this; there's a payware universal remote control app that's been out for a while.

- A.P.

Re:"remote control feature" not a new thing...

[Malic]

The difference with the new Clie is that the extended range of the IR makes it practical. A standard Palm doesn't have the range.

Re:"remote control feature" not a new thing...

[b0z]

20 feet sounds practical enough to me. I may even be able to get further with it. I have a Palm III (actually an IBM WorkPad) that I have used to control a TV from about 20 feet away. The only thing that annoys me is there is no free remote control software out there, and OmniRemote is not good enough to be worth $20 in my opinion.

Re:"remote control feature" not a new thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

But none of them work. Every time I try progamming my Palm with my remote, it registers as though it is receiving signal, even get the frequency, but fails to work.

Sony to loose the crown?

[toupsie]

Looks like Sony will continue to hold the coolest Palm clone crown

Though I wish the "iWalk" wasn't a fake, I got a note in my e-mail from Palm that they are releasing some whiz bang, got to buy it, new Palm Pilot (oops cant call it that anymore). But, of course, they won't tell me what it is and I haven't found a Palm rumor site like the Mac guys have. Given that most of the Palms released after the Palm III sucked, I am really hoping Palm does something cool. I haven't bought a new PDA since 1999. There has been nothing on the market to excite me since.

Note to Apple: BRING BACK THE NEWTON!!!

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[motardo]

I can already tell you that it's going to be another wireless handheld. If you go to http://www.palm.com and click on the picture that says "Shhhh.", it says this:

Fill me in.
I'd like to hear more about the new wireless Palm(TM) handheld.
Please put me on the advance notification list.

My guess is that it is probably an m505 with a built in receiver, or maybe another palm phone.

-motardo

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[kisrael]

There is palminfocenter.com for Palm rumors, but I haven't noticed anything about this teaser campaign there.

Someone else in this thread point out that the palm site has a "Shhh" link on their frontpage. Which is kind of funny, because when you click it, it has not just a add me to mailing list link but a set of "Spread the news." blanks, to enter your friends' email and first names. So they're not being as secretive about it as their e-mail teaser tried to imply.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[TheGreenLantern]

Common opinion seems to be the new Palm is going to be the i705, which was rumor-mongered here when the FCC let the cat out of the bag a few months early.

Oh, and Palminfocenter is probably the best place to go for Palm-related news and rumors.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[aussersterne]

Note to Apple: BRING BACK THE NEWTON!!!

No doubt. I'm still using my Newton 2100. I recently bought two more on eBay as a "just in case it breaks" measure.

The Newton display's color limitation (no color, only 16 shades of grey) sucks, but the 480x360 resolution of the Newton 2100 is unlike anything else ever in the PDA world. The StrongARM processor at 162.0 MHz is still very snappy and compares well with other PDAs currently on the market. I have 24MB memory and a 3Com PCMCIA ethernet card in the unit and use it to browse the Web, e-mail, read news, etc. And the NewtonOS operating system and Rosetta handwriting engine kick ass--far beyond anything else on the market right now. Far beyond. Hard to believe this thing has a manufacture date of 1997.

I owned a Palm III, a Palm V, a Vadem Clio and a Cassiopeia E-11 (two PDAs from each of the other families). Since owning these I also have played with friends' color iPaqs and a HandEra 330 that I was given on loan for a semester earlier this year.

So far, I haven't seen anything to want to make me trade in my Newtons. Now if only Apple would get their head out of their ass and re-release Newton OS, in a new device with a 480x320 color display with two CF slots down the side and a thickness of 0.5 inches, I'd be willing to pay $1000+ for it.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you perhaps mean to say "lose" the crown?

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[Mike@AP]

I really hope Palm does do something good, and soon. There hasn't been a reason to buy a Palm produced device since the original Palm V and Palm VII. Most of the innovation on the platform has come from Handspring and Sony, while Palm has sat relatively still (and don't give me that m500 stuff...that was a complete stopgap upgrade just so they could have product in the pipleline).

And as for Apple, I tend to doubt it. Makes no sense for them to get into PDAs when Palm, Handspring, Microsoft and Sony are all spending millions and slugging it out -- unless Apple can really, REALLY add value to a PDA device, like it did with music players via the iPod. And I have no idea how Apple would do that.

Unless Jobs & Co. bought Palm...hmmm... :)

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[Anonymous Coward]

'cept that the palm v sucks ass compared to the vii or any of the iii series. the screen is so god damned small that you need a magnifying glass to see anything.

Re:Sony to loose the crown?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who could have imagined they let retards on /.

That's the market for the Philips Pronto gone.

[armb]

I can't see anyone buying just a remote for more than half the price of a PDA with AV remote functionality built in. Mind you I couldn't see anyone paying that much for a remote in the first place and people did.

Re:That's the market for the Philips Pronto gone.

[mccalli]

I can't see anyone buying just a remote for more than half the price of a PDA with AV remote functionality built in.

Well, if more than one person lived in the house they'd either all need a PDA, or you'd need to leave one of these constantly in the home. Otherwise, as soon as you took your PDA out of the house everyone would be scrabbling around for the original remotes again.

If you're going to leave one constantly in the house just for use as a remote, then you may as well get the Pronto for half the price.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:That's the market for the Philips Pronto gone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a Pronto, and no, I'm not going to replace it with my Palm. Why is the pronto worth it to me? It replaces the 5 different remotes for my home theater (cable box, RCA DTC-100 HD receiver, Lexicon audio processor, Philips DVD, CrystalImage scaler).

No way I'll replace this with my Palm. The Pronto's hard buttons are more convenient to use for the things I do all time (volume, mute, channel, etc.). They're larger and easier to find than the Palms. The Pronto's screen is larger, so the software buttons are bigger and thus easier to hit with my fat fingers.

I've ALMOST got my Pronto to the point where I can teach my wife to use the system...

New Clie over Palm m505

[Ween]

If I had my time to go over, I would have purchased a Sony Clie instead of my Palm m505. These new ones with memory stick (you can buy it at walmart and its cheap, unlike the m505 cards) and the oh so impressive audio out feature make this a must have. Palm should pay attention before their market share on devices dwindles more.

Re:New Clie over Palm m505

[timbck2]

You left out the most compelling feature of all -- the Clié's crisp, gorgeous screen with twice the resolution of any Palm (320x320 vs. 160x160)!

Re:New Clie over Palm m505

[vrmlknight]

But what I need for work and personal stuff is a memory stick ethernet adapter or modem I'm not gonna be picky about it just something that was ultimately the reason i switched was the lack of expandability for it and even with 16 megs built in memory (mine had much less) and a 8 meg memory stick (which are freekin expensive compaq flash is cheap)

I think that the handheld market needs a few things before it moves further first. If your going to have the ability to play MP3's on your handheld device have the ability to store more than 3 songs 2 CD's worth's would be nice and not have to clear out all my programs to do so is a plus if you cant do this and i have to change memory stick (or what ever type of external mem that is being used) every 2 songs don't bother putting that feature in because you will save more money in the long run on product price

And keep it small and light (Sony has done a wonderful job at this and most palm devices winCE are a bit larger) if it is as heavy as my laptop in a different form factor and gets as hot (granted none of the handhelds today do this but I could see a iPaq7835 having cooling fans) and give it a vibrate function because I'll be damned if any one ever hears that pizo speaker beeping in your pocket or case

Well I'm getting of track and forgetting why I was pissed to begin with so that about wraps this up

Re:New Clie over Palm m505

[Anonymous Coward]

Palm is paying attention and are very happy with Sony doing what it's doing! They make money on any PalmOS handheld sold.

Re:New Clie over Palm m505

[rif42]

> the Clié's crisp, gorgeous screen with twice
> the resolution of any Palm (320x320 vs.
> 160x160)!

You are very right, I also hold this as major advantage, I'd say it's even 4 times better than Pale Pilots resolution. ;-)

The 160x160 resolution is just to little to view any resonable amount of text.

In the past Palm data sheets always avoided to talk about the screen size (and processor), only the memory size is listed. Only in some document for developers they would list the lacklustre screen size.

On the plus Palm has always been good in battery longevity, a point which other handhelds like Ipaq cannot claim. Stating the weight of an Ipaq ought to include the weight of the recharger. ;-) I do not know yet about the Sony devices.

For a good comparison on handhelds, check out the German paper magazine C't edition 25 from 2001.

- RIF

Cool memorystick add on

[davidfsmith]

I love the memorystick camera...

better go and update my wish list !

although I still think they should come with a bigger memorystick as standard 8Mb is a lot small, esp when paying 450 USD the top spec clie

----

Re:Cool memorystick add on

[fizz-beyond]

two things, none of sony's Clies have come with any memory sticks since the S300 (the S360 is more or less the 3rd revision of that device). as for the addon's... my personal favorite is the yet to be released GPS (who knows if they will ever actualy release that thing)

Re:Cool memorystick add on

[mliu]

Heh, I know it's cliche to point out America-centrism on Slashdot now, but the GPS has already been released here in Japan. I've played with it at the big Sony display building in Ginza. Neat little toy......

Re:Cool memorystick add on

[fizz-beyond]

I knew it was released there, but that doesn't help me get my hands on it... although I can't really aford it, and I don't really need it...

Cached version of the page

[ekrout]

In case sony's servers go @!#$ (which they probably won't), here's Google's cache of the page.

Re:Cached version of the page

[Anonymous Coward]

How is his comment redundant? It was the first post (sort by time posted).

Might Win Me Back

[jamesoutlaw]

After my second Palm died, I decided to go PDA-less for a while. The Sonly Clie is probably the device that will win be back... mainly because of the high resolution screen. I've yet to see one in person though... my main complaint with the Palm was that it was difficult for me to read for long periods of time (ie. eBooks, PDFs and stuff).. I am hoping that the 320x320 res on the Clie is a lot better.

Would any of you care to comment/share your esperiences with the high-res Clie?

Re:Might Win Me Back

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I don't have one, but what bothers me is that the screenshot of this high-res clie only shows three icons horizontally on the screen per row on the home screen. If this was running at a higher resolution than my Palm IIIxe, shouldn't there be more than three icons? It looks like the same resolution, unless they scaled those icons.. but why would they do that?

Re:Might Win Me Back

[hmallett]

I was going to buy a Palm m505, having had my Palm III stolen. When I was in the shop however, I compared the screen with the Sony N770/U. The Palm simply didn't stand a chance. The Sony was much brighter and clearer. I'm still not a fan of reading books on a screen that size though.

Re:Might Win Me Back

[mliu]

I have a Clie 760, the Japanese version of the 750. It works great. The high res makes all the difference in the world. There's a reason after the Clie 700 was released in Japan it stayed on the #1 best selling Palm OS spot ever since (maybe not anymore now though). After you use hi-res you just can't go back anymore. The standard 160x160 screens just look like pure crap. Especially here, with the Japanese fonts with the extremely intricate details, on the 160x160 displays I would call that borderline useable, just barely legible. 320x320 produces a beautiful smooth chinese character. Add in using an ebook reader like Wordsmith that can do ClearType (the LCD font smoothing technology) and they really look completely smooth to me, no jaggies at all. So if the reason that you stopped using Palms was because of the bad screen resolutions, I urge you to drop by your local electronics retailer and take a look at the new Clies on display and see what you think.

PS the Clie 415 is an exception to this. It is B&W and has a hi-res 320x320 screen, but is completely illegible due to bad contrast. Don't use that as an example.

Re:Might Win Me Back

[jamesoutlaw]

Cool, man. Thanks for the information!

Re:Might Win Me Back

[Lemuel]

I love the high-res screen on the Clie. It looked nice, but then when I viewed some of the pictures that came with it I was really amazed. Photographs actually look like photographs, without dithering. I use my Clie for learning Chinese, and the characters come out very crisp and clear.

The downside to the screen is that it only looks this nice with the backlight on. The backlight gives the screen a white background that makes for good contrast. Without the backlight, though, the screen is very hard to read because it is too dim. I'll go without the backlight sometimes, but not for long. For this reason I have to make sure I charge it every night, because the backlight sucks the juice out of the batteries. I'm willing to live with this, though, because the screen is just so beautiful.

Re:Might Win Me Back

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lots of eBook readers now that do sub-pixel font smoothing and anti-aliased type; most finally also work with the Sony Clie hi-resolution. The difference is amazing.

Check out DeepReader (http://www.rzanerutledge.com/deepreader/), which in my opinion is the best of the hi-res bunch for reading eBooks on PalmOS.

Shame about the Memory Stick

[PhilHibbs]

I really dislike it - it's just too damn expensive. And only Sony support it (AFAIK).

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[mliu]

not so bad anymore. Previously this was true, but now that the cheapest price on the net is around $50 for 128 megs, that seems fairly reasonable to me, comparable with other flash memories (besides CF, which is the king of cheap, but super big unfortunately).

And memory stick production has been picked up by other manufactuers as well now. Lexar and Sandisk, I forget who else.

I'm rather fond of them myself. All the toughness of compact flash cards, with a size compromise with the flimsy smart media form factor cards.

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[Zocalo]

It's the Memory Stick that's turning me off Sony as well, although the two high-res colour models they now have are winning me over. This new model is just what I would want from a PDA with current tech levels as I don't need multimedia stuff, just an organizer that I can sync with my desktops/laptops and run a few other tools on to help with my job.

What I'm hoping for is that Palm's "community development" method will pay off and they will fold all the neat new Sony stuff, especially the screen, back into the general product line in time for the 515 launch around March. If not, then I'll probably end up getting the Clié and living with the semi-proprietary memory stick.

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[swv3752]

Erm... no. The best thing about it is how durable it is. If you drop it and step on it, you are not going to break it, try that with some other flash.

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[Zocalo]

Looking down that list, there is a large number of companies that have little or no connection with PCs. There are lot's of automotive manufacturers of all things, and other industries, and I'm sure that some of them probably refine the silicon that others turn into wafers that others... Sony might be citing 218 companies, but I doubt the number of consumer facing ones is into three digits.

It's not that I have anything against MemoryStick as such, it's just that other similar technologies are far more interoperable with a broader choice of devices, and surely "durability" is a secondary goal to "interoperability". It's an old chestnut, but you have to love standards; there are so many to chose from. :(

Re:Shame about the Memory Stick

[PhilHibbs]

Another major expense is the adapters - you can get a Compactflash PC card adapter for $12, or USB for $20, but a Memory Stick adapter for PC card or USB will set you back $60. Plus I have an existing investment in compactflash memory - a 48MB and a 32MB card for my Psion orianiser and Kodak camera.

16M? 16 mega what? lcd pixels? [rant]

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop being sloppy writing 16M (16 mega) or 16mb (16 millibits).

mega -> M
byte -> B

therefore it is 16 MB, and case sensitive, you FAT32 freaks!

nice...

[sluggie]

... but it looks like the Sony incompatibility mafia did it again.

Only compatible with Sony headphones, Sony memory stick, Sony software etc etc.

So, when looking at the contents:

Sony CLIÉ Handheld
Headphones
Audio Remote Controller
USB HotSync® Cradle
Detachable AC Adapter
Memory Stick (8MB)
Stylus
Sony CLIÉ Installation CD-ROM
Read This First
Registration Notice
Add-on Application Guide
Graffiti Sticker
Protective Cover


you can be sure that even if only the stylus brakes you're going to pay lots for a new one.

To imagine what a new cradle or AC adapter costs is left to the reader...

Sure they look cool, have a sleek design, but are not compatible with your favourite headphones / removalble media etc...

Re:nice...

[bpowell423]

USB Cradle $50 bucks
AC Adapter $30 bucks
Stylus 3 Pack $15 bucks
Doesn't seem too bad...

Also, only compatible with Sony software? It runs the PalmOS, which means it's compatible with the largest selection of software available for any PDA.

Or maybe you were just trolling...

Re:nice...

[mliu]

Ouch, +4 informative for this?

"Only compatible with Sony headphones, Sony memory stick, Sony software etc etc."

Funny, my Clie 760 right now has a pair of generic no name headphones attached (didn't like the clip ons that came with it), has a Sandisk memory stick inserted, and is running a myriad of programs designed by 3rd parties. Oh, and don't forget my 3rd party stylus......

Re:nice...

[Anonymous._.Coward]

USB Cradle $50 bucks
AC Adapter $30 bucks

You need to buy an AC Adapter? I've got a little check box that says "Post Anonymously", just above the submit button, that seems to do the trick.

Re:nice...

[ptomblin]

Only compatible with Sony headphones

Where do you get that from? I have a Clie PEG-N760C and at work I have a regular $9 Radio Shack ear buds that I use with it. The headphones that come with it are "better" (for certain values of better - I don't like them much) because they have a little "stick" about half way along the cord with volume, stop/pause/start and skip forward/back controls on it. I guess that's for when you have the thing in your pocket and you don't want to fish it out to control the music, but I don't tend to use that feature. Maybe when I buy a bigger memory stick.

By the way, it runs most Palm OS software just fine - you don't have to run "only Sony software". The Clie CD-Rom includes the USB drivers for the USB cradle and a slightly modified version of the familiar Palm Desktop.

By the way, it syncs just fine using coldsync and Linux kernel 2.4.17. I can even mount the memory stick as a vfat file system to delete the old mp3s and put new ones on.

Re:nice...

[Keith Russell]

Or maybe you were just trolling...

We have a winner. Either that, or Slashdot need a new moderation option: Misinformed.

Right off the bat, Sluggie is quoting specs from the wrong model. He's looking at the N760, not the T615.

The T615 doesn't have a headphone jack at all. It uses an external MP3 decoder that connects to the hotsync port. The external decoder, and N700's built-in audio, use standard headphones.

bpowell423's points are correct. Sony's prices for cradles, AC adapters, etc. are comparable to others. And PalmOS is PalmOS.

Sluggie's right about expansion, though. For simple memory expansion, I don't think there's a practical difference between Memory Stick and MMC/SD. Step outside the handheld space, and support for either format is equally thin. But I really wish Sony would add Compact Flash support. There's a sled for the T-series in Japan, but it's not available in the States. (If you follow the link, it's the PEGA-CF60. Babelfish helps, but with Japanese, it's as, um, entertaining as it is useful.)

Re:nice...

[cheezedawg]

Yeah- no kidding. I regularly plug my Clie into my computer speakers at work to listen to music, and I've got a Lexar memory stick too. And what does he/she mean by "only compatible with Sony software"? It comes with a Sony picture viewer, movie player, audio player, and memory stick manager, but I've seen 3rd party software that does all of that stuff too. And you can use the standard Palm Desktop.

Re:nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice post. All true.

And you can plug those $9 ear buds of yours right into the little "stick" remote. Just unplug the OEM headphones and plug yours in.

I'm very pleased with the 760C with the exception of the MP3 player gagging on some files for no apparent reason. I'm paranoid enough to blame it on some nefarious Sony digital rights management thing, but I haven't dug in enough to prove it.

infoSync article

[TheCrunch]

infoSync has an article with big pictures.

Better PalmOS & Devices

[rhekman]

Cooler packaging and whiz bang features are nice, but I want to see a platform upgrade with BeOS tech and faster processors!

Regards

Re:Better PalmOS & Devices

[rmayes100]

I recently got an email from palm source titled: " Test your app on Prototype ARM Hardware at PalmSource" apparently I ended up on their email list when I signed up as a palm developer. At any rate palm appears to be pushing towards ARM hardware. In fact wasn't there an announcement recently that palm had some kind of deal with Texas Instruments to produce the ARM processors for them? Hopefully some more multimedia features (from BeIA/OS) will coincide with the move to the ARM hardware or shortly thereafter.

Re:Very sad day

[fryke]

Is this real? Okay, sad. Now back to Sony's new Cliés.

Right, Sony *does* make the best machines for the Palm OS. But I can't believe just how far away from each other their divisions are. It's almost unthinkable that they haven't yet made a Clié with an integrated mobile phone... They're leaving the market to Handspring and Nokia (Communicator)...

Yes, but....

[Bartmoss]

Does it help them? Sure, Sony is huge and can absorb losses, but my impression is the PDA market is hopelessly saturated. Or is it?

I gotta say

[Anonymous Coward]

these look nice,. but my Newton is still nicer.. i dont need no stinkin color

Coolest Palm clone?

[Cutriss]

It's got great color, and it plays MP3s, but I hesitate to say that it's the coolest. I'm absolutely in love with my HandEra 330. This sucker has support for SD memory as well as CF+, meaning that it supports Ethernet connectivity, 802.11b, GSM cell modems, etc. etc., as well as huge honkin' memory cards and the Microdrive. I can run a shell on my HandEra to my uni's Unix server. Can yours do that?

Mine also has a high-resolution screen which makes many programs easier to use since they can fit more data on the screen. It also has a Lithium-Ion rechargeable battery pack available, it comes with a built-in microphone and voice-recording software (Which can record straight to SD or CF if you want), it has that cool jog-dial button so that you can scroll text or start apps with it...and it has a virtual Graffiti area, so that I can reclaim the space it uses if I'm reading e-mail or PDFs. Also, using CardPro, you can install Palm apps directly from SD or CF without syncing. You could even get an FTP app or a web browser and download apps and install them that way.

If color is your thing, HandEra's already got a color model slated for release in a few months. But the flexibility and capability of my unit *far* outweighs the benefits of a measly MP3 player.

Re:Coolest Palm clone?

[mliu]

The Handera is definitely a good machine, I'd put it right up with the Sony Clie line for best/most innovative Palm OS design. It's maybe the geek's PDA. But I can't resist a jab at a line you made.

"But the flexibility and capability of my unit *far* outweighs the benefits of a measly MP3 player." Hehe, '*far* outweighs' in more ways than one......

Re:Coolest Palm clone?

[BlueStreak]

I too have a Handera; all the points above are very true.

What is particularily interesting about the Handera is the fact that it has the CompactFlash and SD ports, thereby making it available for use with all the pheripherals that are currently available or that will come out soon. It's terribly useful for when you have a memory card for data and a pheripheral (you can use them both at the same time).

Also, the Handera has kept with the Palm III form factor so a lot of add-ons (especially older ones, like old hard cases) fit perfectly.

These two main features of the Handera make it perfect for a work environment; companies can buy add-ons for this device without having to buy more specialized devices (i.e. some of the Palm OS powered devices from Symbol). It ends up being cheap and very powerful.

An example: my father owns a septic & toilet rental business. With a Handera I've connected to his database of customers & work orders (keeping all his clients on the memory card), I can add a GPS unit to keep track of the location of his toilets (especially useful when they are way out in the woods), a bar-code scanner can be used to keep track of inventory and quickly identify toilets when he's servicing them. He can also use one of the many Palm III keyboards to enter data on the road.

I've heard that one of the more popular uses of Handera devices are in warehouses with 802.11 networks & barcode scanners to manage inventory.

Sony PDAs are great but they are consumer oriented. BTW, the Handera has a 240x320 resolution (very crisp).

Re:Coolest Palm clone?

[bark76]

If Handera came out with a Palm V style device (with all those features) I would be a very happy boy. I know I'm dreaming, but I just hate the size of the III style devices.

PEG-N610C

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wish they waited a little longer to release this. I bought the "newest" PDA from Sonay this summer in about July and here they are already with a better one :-\ I tried searching on their website for my model and the only page that exists now is the warrenty page!

With Included Content "Protection"

[Eagle7]

From the product info page for the one that play's music:

A standard 8 MB Memory Stick® media is included with your CLIÉ? PEG-N760C handheld. This is adequate for storing a few, non-secure, music tracks at a time. To carry more than a few tracks at once, or to download and play secure music (ATRAC3? audio content) requires a larger MagicGate? Memory Stick® media (sold separately).

It seems that it will play all the "insecure" MP3s you throw at it - but I love the wording of this. In-secure music vs. Secure music - as if the insecure music will somehow send out emails on the device to your boss or something.

Bravo to Sony for creating a neat product... but a slap on the wrist for attempting to brainwash the consumer into shooting him/herself in the foot.

Re:With Included Content "Protection"

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what they mean is: music with digital-rights-management (read: lots of extra data, lots of multiple-key encryption) gives you music files so large that you need to buy a load more memory for the device.

Hmmm, files you can't copy, and have to pay $ hundreds more for the memory, or files you can copy, and take less memory... I wonder which will become the more popular?

Imagine...

[keiferb]

...a beowulf cluster of these!

beat me, please!

Better the real or another totally different thing

[mirko]

I'm actually a little afraid of the Sony thing as it imho doesn't seem as easy to integrate under linux or others environments as the original thing (for example, I don't like this memory stick thing that looks it's here to force me to adopt a newer kind of yet unrecognized device under non-proprietary envts... The Sony spec also read "windows" and neither linux nor even MacOS[9X]).

One, month ago, Palm announced some forthcoming evolution (multitasking,e tc.) to their OS which seems quite promising since they actually bought Be...

I may wait a little and either buy some of these new devices or something totally different, yet exciting but pricier.

News for nerds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stuff that matters?

Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[Cinnibar CP]

I wish someone would slap one of those hi-res displays on something with a little more memory behind it. Palm handhelds are cute, IMHO, but it aint worth it to me to blow $400+ on a gadget if it doesn't do everythign I need. Yeah, some play MP3's, but why would I trade my Archos for one? I wish someone would put together something with the best features of a portable HD and a handheld...

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[mliu]

These exist. They're called Pocket PC's. You can get a Toshiba eGenio, featuring a 206 Mhz processor, 240x320 64k screen, dual expansion slots, a reasonably small size (for a PPC) and then drop in a CF Microdrive for a gig or two of storage and be off and running.

Seems like exactly what you're pining for.

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget that unfortunately on slashdot, pocket PC's suck, even if they are the same size, have better expandibility and functionality, and cost just the same. Pocket PC's are just irrelevant. Everybody is getting worked up over shit which has like 4MB of memory, when they could buy a Genio with 64.

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a Clie760, and yes, you can use the memory stick as a portable HD. When you sync music, a drive appears under "My Computer". Sony plans on releasing a 256MB memorystick this year with a 1GB version by 2004.

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[Anonymous Coward]

mod the original up!

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[Cinnibar CP]

Hmmm... a gig or two would be nice. 6gig+ would be better. If you've already got hi-res and better storage in a Toshiba eGenio, I can't understand why you'd want one of the Palm-line. (Other than the obvious preferences for OS vendor that some people have) It's actually kinda interesting the way the handheld market is balanced with multiple vendor OS's and manufacturers. Seems to be spurring healthy competition that will likely end up with the consumer benefiting more.

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[cdipierr]

You can get 5gb PCMCIA hard drives from Toshiba that will plug into an iPaq (assuming you have the PCMCIA adapter). It makes the device extremely bulky for a PDA, but if you need the storage, it's there.

Re:Higher res is nice, now give me memory

[mliu]

"I can't understand why you'd want one of the Palm-line"

There are IMO only two reasons to buy a Palm OS handheld these days, but they are two of the most important factors in handhelds. Palm OS handhelds, on average, completely blow away PPC handhelds, on average, on size. And Palm OS handhelds, on average, completely blow away PPC hanahelds, on average, on battery life. Considering that portable usage is what could be called the defining characteristic of PDAs as opposed to regular general computers, these are obviously pretty big things to take into account. On those two reasons alone I got a Clie instead of a PPC.

There are also two (IMO bad) reasons that are frequently trotted out by Palm supporters. That PPC is a big, slow, hard to use operating system, and that PPC is made by Microsoft. While the first of those is an opinion matter, these days the PPC interface has improved a lot, and a lot of people are just bitter about how much the original WinCE sucked. The 2nd argument, well, I guess that's up to the person.

So there you go, hopefully now you understand why anyone would want one of the Palm-line. If battery life and size are not high on your priority list, I would 100% recommend you to go with the PPC line, no reservations. But then again, your handheld can be the best handheld in the world, but if it's out of batteries, or if you didn't bring it with you cause it feels too big in your pocket and is sitting at home on your desk, then it doesn't make one bits difference.

Re:Very sad day

[Anonymous Coward]

oh my god, I just found out this is true. This is terrible. Shame on you moderators for putting the parent down, no doubt as you will to me...

Doh!

[conan_albrecht]

Great. Anyone want to buy my Clie 760 which I just purchased for $100 more?!?

Re:Doh!

[Chelloveck]

If you find a buyer, ask if they have a friend who wants to buy my 710 (with 4.0 upgrade).

My only complaint with the new models is that they replaced the up/down buttons with a dinky little paddle thing. Not too bad for "serious" applications (since I use the jog dial more than the buttons), but it blows chunks for games.

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[ZZamboni]

I have a Clie N710C, and I use it both with a Mac (MarkSpace sells the software for doing this) and Linux (kernels since around version 2.4.13 have worked OK with it, maybe even earlier). Sony does not officially support anything other than Windows, but that doesn't mean it does not work :-)

The MarkSpace product allows mounting the memory stick under MacOS, and on Linux, it can be mounted as a usb-storage device, it is formatted as a VFAT file system.

Processor Speed?

[SWad]

I find it interesting that Sony doesn't list the processor in the new CLIE lineup. Especially these days when speed sells (from a marketing point of view). Is it a secret, or are they still using the 33MHz? Because if it was faster, you'd think they would promote that.

Weird Memory Stick stuff

[jvmatthe]

From the page on the N760C:

A standard 8 MB Memory Stick® media is included with your CLIÉ(TM) PEG-N760C handheld. This is adequate for storing a few, non-secure, music tracks at a time. To carry more than a few tracks at once, or to download and play secure music (ATRAC3(TM) audio content) requires a larger MagicGate(TM) Memory Stick® media (sold separately).

This makes me wonder a couple of things.

• With language like "non-secure", which probably sounds to the uninitiated like something bad, how serious is Sony about pushing secure content? After all, they do own the rights to a ton of music. Wording like this makes me think they're planning to lock it all up and make the general public think they're doing the right thing when they rent their "secure" music from Sony.
  
• Since they've clearly got "secure music" in mind, will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music? If they did so, how open is the Sony hardware to creating third party players that would play "non-secure" music.
  

I mean, to me it looks like they want to (a) start sell^H^H^H^Hrenting their "secure" music while (b) tying the use of that music to increasing hardware sales (of MagicGate Memory Sticks) and then (c) use scary language and possibly locking up their hardware specs (Warning! Wild speculation!) to prevent the unsaavy from playing "non-secure" music.

Again, just wild speculation there.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[mliu]

heh, no speculation about it, just fortunately for us it all flopped.

"Since they've clearly got "secure music" in mind, will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music? If they did so, how open is the Sony hardware to creating third party players that would play "non-secure" music."

All of Sony's standalone 'MP3' players to date don't play mp3s, they play ATRAC's and that's it. The public has collectively taken one look at them and said (cool designs they might be but) 'you want to make it HOW inconvenient for me to do the things I want to do' and failed to purchase them. They must have released at least 3 of those things now, truly beautiful designs all of them, and they've all been tremendous sales flops I think. Even more pertinently, originally the Sony Clie 700 couldn't play mp3s, only ATRACs. And people hated it, and complained so much that Sony gave in and released a patch so that MP3s could be played as well. So in short, it's not the end of the world yet. Sony tried to bring it about, but fortunately they were too clumsy about it, and the public was too discerning (or inconvienced) to fall for it.

What we have to be worried about now is just Sony learning from its lessons and coming back with an implementation that doesn't totally suck. Then we're all in trouble.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[snowbike]

will we see a day when their stock MP3 player won't play "non-secure" music?

I saw the day about two months ago, and it really bummed me out. I hope someone can correct me, but the very attractive (except for the Magic Gate) MP3 player by Sony (the NW-MS9) requires the magic gate memory stick and software which only works in Windows (possibly Mac OS?). I have the Sony Vaio Picture book with a memory stick slot, and the Sony PC-3 camera which uses the memory sticks. I love the memory sticks, they work fine under Linux. And I would love to be able to just slap mp3s on the memory stick and throw them in the Sony NW-MS9--it is exactly what I want in an MP3 player. No stupid cables to find/carry around. Tiny, tiny, tiny.

If anyone can (truthfully..) tell me that the NW-MS9 will play mp3s on a non-magic gate memory stick, I'd order one today.

But alas, the day has come, Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[swv3752]

Actually, the n710 could always play mp3's. The patch gave better support for mp3's other than 128kbs. The rest you are pretty correct on. In fact Sony tech support pretty much recommends against OpenMG (the ATRAC3 mess that requires Magic Gate-Secure) and to just use regualr mp3's.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[swv3752]

Unfortunately the only memory stick mp3 player that will work with Linux is the Clie.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[mliu]

Heh, yup, the n710 could always play mp3's. But you will note I said the original Clie 700, which was the same model released here in Japan by a month or two before it was in America. At first it couldn't play MP3s at all. The patch was created later on due to overwhelming demand, and the American 710 customers got to be lucky enough just to ride on the fruits of the complaints of Japanese customers......

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[seafoodbuffet]

Wild speculation indeed. I believe what's hapening here is that by using ATRAC3 (Sony's proprietary audio encoding format, used by MiniDiscs) Sony is trying to limit the number of digital copies of a particular piece of music. In real world terms, this means that you can not copy a bunch songs to your handheld, walk over to your buddy and simply upload them to his/her machine. While there may be a more sinister element (ie tying hardware sales, etc), Sony's notion of "secure" music has been used by MiniDisc owners all over the world without much apparent complaint.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[swv3752]

Strange, I thought Japanese consumers didn't complain. :) But, ya, OpenMG really blows.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[__aaanwh8370]

Sony introduced the MagicGate memory stick to allow them to effect DRM for their MP3 player. MagicGate sticks (they're the white ones) and the standard sticks (they're purplish ones) can be used interchangeably in any sony device (mavica, vaio, dv camcorder, clie, etc..) EXCEPT the MP3 player, which requires the MagicGate stick.

And it sucks. Horribly. Not only does it force ATRAC3, but i limits the number of times you can move certain pieces onto and off of the memory stick, whether you own it or not. Certainly crappy.

But the Clie is awesome. I use the 415 (the b/w version of the 615) and its fabulous. Same resolution, form factor, etc...

My favorite part is the geeky cool body, which is 100% real metal (aluminum), not the polished plastic you get with the handspring edge. The width makes a massive difference over my old visor. Can't turn back now, so hopefully sony won't bend me over by cramming too many DRM initiatives in my devices.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[Beautyon]

What we have to be worried about now is just Sony learning from its lessons and coming back with an implementation that doesn't totally suck. Then we're all in trouble.

The Magic Gate that SONY has been trying to foist on the public is a gate that locks out MP3s and freedom and which locks you in to their proprietary system. No one is going to buy these devices while gigabyte carrying Ipods and other devices that allow you to do what you want are on the market.

If SONY really learned its lesson, it would DROP ATRAC completely, finance OOG and use it to as the basis of the next gerneration of Mini Disc recorders.

It would release its next generation portable players with the ability to play OOGs and MP3s by default and any other format through third party plugins. It would release an SDK so that this could be done easily, and it would not sue people who hack SONY software as in the ABIO case.

They actually believed that people whould be bewitched by the design, buy the players and then use the software bundled with them to convert thier whole collecions to ATRAC. Only the most stupid of people would buy into having to rip thier music twice just to play it on a pretty piece of metal.

What is also amazing is how SONY tries to appropriate the language of software movements. "OpenMG copyright protection technology" There is nothing "open" about "OpenMG". In any case, they are not fooling anyone: as it says here

The real problem is that the SONY of today is not the SONY of the mid 70's when the original Walkman was released, which is a shame, because they have some fantastic engineers and designers.

Re:Weird Memory Stick stuff

[Keith Russell]

IIRC, Sony never sold a "Network" or "Memory Stick" Walkman that directly supported MP3 or non-DRM sticks. They all convert MP3s to ATRAC3 before uploading.

Interesting note: The Network Walkman is the only Memory Stick device that forces DRM. Clies will play MP3 or ATRAC3. VAIOs with built-in stick readers typically support MagicGate, but add-on readers (USB, PC Card, or floppy) don't. However, Memory Sticks are removable drives to the OS, so you just have to mount, navigate to PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO/, and tune in.

Sony is attempt to force me to accept digital rights/wrongs that I don't won't. When will the companies remember--"the customer is always right"?

You remind them every time you vote with your wallet. Instead of buying an NW-MS9, buy a Nomad. Or an Archos Jukebox. Or an iPod, if you're in that 5% of the market enclosed in the JRDF. Let them know that, given a choice, consumers will choose the path of most convenience. (See also: Circuit City DiVX vs. DVD) Maybe if everybody imposed DRM as vigorously as Sony, the Network Walkman would be competitive. As it stands now, their only customers are members of Hillary Rosen's immediate family.

Sony IR communicating with others?

[Kopretinka]

When I was buying my palm, I was considering Clie, too, but I was told that Clie IR only communicates with other Sony devices. Is this still true?

Re:Sony IR communicating with others?

[swv3752]

That was never true.

Re:Sony IR communicating with others?

[bkim]

When I was buying my palm, I was considering Clie, too, but I was told that Clie IR only communicates with other Sony devices. Is this still true?

Whoever told you this was wrong. The IR works fine with other Palm devices. The Clie is just Sony hardware running the Palm OS with some extensions to support extra Sony features.

Re:Sony IR communicating with others?

[Anonymous Coward]

All PalmOS hardware uses the same guidelines. I hope you didn't end up buying a 505 just because of some salesman's pitch.

Re:Sony IR communicating with others?

[b0z]

It works fine. My cousin bought a Clie and I sent him about 30 programs over the IR port from my IBM Workpad (Palm III)

Re:Sony IR communicating with others?

[Kopretinka]

No, I was going after the cheapest reasonable stuff (I usually do that when buying the first thing of its kind for I cannot know what I really need) so I bought me a nice m105. 8-)

Oh, and I was a bit time-pressed then, too.

Big sales from Home Theater people possible

[JoshMKiV]

If people are willing to pay almost $1,000 for the new Pronto remote, and MUCH more for other remotes, I can see this selling in large numbers if the IR range was bumped up. Perhaps this device will have a serious impact on high-end remote control prices. Try RemoteCentral for remote info/reviews.

Why would someone buy this?

[Anonymous Coward]

$400 for a palm powered device with 16 megs of ram? Am I the only one who wonders why anyone would buy this when you could buy a vastly superior jornada or ipaq for only a little more money?

Sony: the next Microsoft?

[stereoroid]

Is there any other company that has its fingers in so many pies? e.g. in the music world, OK, they don't make synthesisers, but they make mixing desks, recorders, mastering gear, CD-pressing kit, MiniDisc pressing kit, MiniDisc players & media, "MP3" players, and Memory Sticks. Oh, and they own the band and their music too (just ask Pearl Jam etc.)

TV? Same thing - film on Sony digital cameras, master to DVD on Sony kit, play it back on a Sony TV with a Sony DVD player.

Now they're invading the PDA world. Am I the only one who finds all this a bit disturbing?

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[aussersterne]

Sony was Microsoft before Microsoft was. People were talking about Sony being in pretty much every market even before the launch of Windows 95.

Don't you remember those "Fuck Sony" shirts from the early '90s? Or am I getting even older?

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[phong3d]

...film on Sony digital cameras, master to DVD on Sony kit, play it back on a Sony TV with a Sony DVD player.

I'm disturbed by seeing kids decked out in head-to-toe Tommy Hilfiger logo clothes, but they have every right to dress that way if they want to. :) Sony has a number of products - some of which are very good - in the electronics market, and if you find their product to be superior, nobody's forcing you to buy it. Now, if I buy a PC from Dell or Micron or - yes - Sony, I'm forced to have Windows Whatever installed on it; I have no choice (until I get it home) what OS to put on it.

Sony can put out all they want, and if people like what they put out and choose to buy it (be it for the quality or something petty like the label or color), then so be it - that's the market for you.

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[stereoroid]

Oh, I agree about the need to vote ¥€$ or ÑØ with money - I do not own a single piece of Sony gear, not even a Walkman. I do own an IBM ThinkPad, so I'm not really "independent", nor do I feel the need to be. It all just reminds me of the Road Runner cartoons, where everything's made by ACME..!

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Half a year ago, when Sony and AOL were being mentioned as possibly Be buyers, nobody found it disturbing.

Re:Sony: the next Microsoft?

[bkim]

Now they're invading the PDA world. Am I the only one who finds all this a bit disturbing?

I don't think you can really compare Sony to Microsoft. Microsoft is in a league of their own when it comes to being a monopoly. At least Sony manages to create some noteworthy products. Just take a look at some of their professional products: Betacams are still being used in the news industry. Their digital mixers and DAT decks are being used by some big names in the recording industry.

Don't forget about VEGA or SACD, either. It's awfully hard to beat the picture quality from a VEGA XBR. Audiophiles have given Sony SACD products good reviews, as well.

Microsoft, on the other hand, just produces a lot of crap that people buy because they either really don't have a good alternative or because they have to if they want to remain compatible because everyone else is using Windows. M$ usually buys out their competition to help make your buying decision easier.

There are a lot of alternatives to buying Sony gear. Just take a look at your local electronics superstore. It's not like Sony is the only thing on the shelves. But, take a look at the computer section in the same store. Chances are, all the computers they're selling have Windows on them.

C'mon

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, the thing is cool lookin' - but so is my IPAQ. And with the microdrive, I have TONS of storage for mp3's. I love the thing. Nothing compares to the IPAQ .

I don't get it

[Lxy]

So, this is the latest and greatest... why? $400 seems like a nice price for a color PalmOS based PDA with 16 MB, considering the only thing similar is the Visor Prism for around $300. So it's got a remote control feature. So does my Visor Deluxe. It's got Omniremote, a pretty sweet shareware remote app (www.palmgear.com). I suppose I could get audio addons and software for it, but how many MP3s can you really store in the 16 MB Sony anyway? Cool product, yes, but all this talk about blowing Palm and Handspring off the market... not a chance. Where's the expenasion slot? Can I pop a Magellan GPS unit onto it? Can I get a V.90 modem for it?

IMHO the Handsprings beat the crap out of every portable on the market because of the Springboard slot. Sure, you have to pay $$ for those expansions, but at least they're available.

One last rant: If Sony is bragging about how thin they are, why do they only show them from the front? :-)

Re:I don't get it

[bpowell423]

Couple of things...

First, you're right about the springboard slot, in a way. There are lots of modules available for it, then again they're a little pricey. On the other hand, Sony has a camera is supposedly will have a GPS module soon, for the memory stick slot.

Okay, so what really makes this thing tempting? 320x320 color screen. Compare that to 160x160 for the Visor Prism or the color Palms. Throw in Documents-to-Go, which is included with the Sony. It'll cost you $70 at PalmGear. Throw in an enhanced IR port, which I take it would compare to the Handspring OmniRemote module ($60 from Handspring). So right there is $130 in add-ons that are included with the Clie, already making it a better deal than the Prism.

Also, looks like the best price for a SpringBoard 16MB memory card is about $80. For that you can get a 64MB memory stick.

One last thing: Click on the product tour for the Clie. First pic is a side shot of the Clie. Yep, it's thin.

Now, I'm not necessarily sold on this Clie. I'm currently the proud owner of a Visor Deluxe, which I've had for a couple of years now. But it cost me $300 originally, so $400 for 4x the resolution, plus color, plus style, plus whatever else seems to me to be right on the money.

Now, I have a birthday coming up... I wonder if I can convince my wife how much I NEED a new PDA...

Re:I don't get it

[cornflux]

$80 is not accurate for a 64mb memory stick. you should be able to get 128mb for that.

in fact, if you're in the market for a memory stick, you can get a 128mb for $61 at buy.com and there's a $15 rebate.

Re:I don't get it

[n-baxley]

First pic is a side shot of the Clie. Yep, it's thin.

I know this was the last thing you mentioned, but it's still 1/2 an inch. The Palm IIIs were about .7" Were are you sticking this thing that you need the extra .2"? Maybe I don't want to know.

Impressive

[image]

From the site:

Enhanced IR can reach AV products several feet away

So can my arm.

Re:Impressive

[swv3752]

One the few times where marketing understates something. A friend had a t415 and had no problem controlling a TV from 30'. One caveat, it was a Sony 50", not that it likely makes any difference. Now my Agenda can do that, but I have yet to see any Palm do that (including one attached to an arm with fingers :-p ).

Re:Impressive

[russmay]

Luddite.

What's the point of technology if it can't do things that you already can do, but better! And faster! And use batteries! And fit into your pocket! Sheesh.

Re:Impressive

[jea6]

Through the aid of an enhanced built-in infrared (IR) port and CLIÉ Remote Commander software, users can transform the CLIÉ PEG-T615C model into a universal remote controller to control home entertainment components from up to 15 feet away.

Re:Impressive

[dogas]

Actually, I have the t-415 model (not the best one by far) and it could easily reach the TV at the crowded bar I was at (TV was roughly 25-30 feet away). I wowed and amazed people that I could change the channels with my clie just by knowing the manufacturer of of the TV.

The screen isn't as good as the 6xx/7xx

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen this unit firsthand and while the screen is good, it's about 15% smaller than current 6xx/7xx models, slightly dimmer, and not as vibrant.. though overall contrast was a bit better.

One thing I do love about the new Clie's is that Palm FINALLY has decent audio... even better than the Handera. ;)

that's your opinion

[2ms]

In my opinion the Clies have always been the most frivolous and/or bad Palms. Non-standard screen, non-standard memory stick crap, gay leather cover and name, obnoxious wannabe sheik (but just dumb) styling. Please let's not make Clies the cool thing to have like those lavender cheap plastic Vaio pieces of crap were. It's embarassing for me that so many linux users go around showing off that they think the second-rate, pretensiously designed stuff is cool and then diss the truly well designed stuff like Apple products.

Re:that's your opinion

[TurkishGeek]

What exactly is the "sheik styling" you are talking about? Perhaps they are targeting the affluent Saudi Arabian market, but I doubt there is a high demand for PDA's in that part of the world.

Is this "sheik style" related to "chic styling" in any way?

Re:that's your opinion

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming Apple actually makes a competition...

And for those about HandEra screen fitting more.....HandEra is 240x320, while Clie 320x320....which can fit more? you do the math!

The HandEra PDA is soooo HUGE it's almost as big as a PPC!

Before iWalk is reality, don't say "well designed stuff like Apple", cuz when compared, Newton is not exactly a competitor to T615.

Re:that's your opinion

[thinktanq]

the Vaios are awful. I have lots of Sony audio & video gear at home, very happy with it. But every time Sony goes near laptops, they just don't seem to get it right. weird size, cheap feeling, yuck colour, fragile, unreliable. I saw so many broken Vaios last year. It puzzles me why Sony can't make this stuff.

The thinnest palm powered color handheld?

[zsmooth]

Why do they claim it's the "world's thinnest Palm-Powered(TM) color handheld"?? According to the specs, it's .5" thick. The Palm m505 is also .5" thick. Of course, the Clie' screen beats the m505's screen hands down, but still...

Re:The thinnest palm powered color handheld?

[mliu]

As I recall in millimeters, the Clie wins in thickness over the M505 by a slim margin, maybe by a millimeter or three. Pretty insignificant, and basically invisible to the naked eye. But I guess they are being truthful even through their marketing speak........

pocketpc rulz

[Anonymous Coward]

palm droolz. why why why won't they ship 256mb 206mhz+ strongarm with sony's 320x320 16bit color screen.

Basically WinCE sucked ass and then out of nowhere came PocketPCs with 10 times more power, sexiness and functionality.

Sony needs to come up with their own OS or join MS (that's gonna happen).

-10 Flamebait

Availability in the UK

[vohlish_n]

The original hi-res colour version has only recently become available in the UK. I have held off buying one wondering what Sony was going to release next, and now comes this super-slim one. Do I await its release in the UK, or purchase the one already out? If I wait for the new one to be released here, will they quickly follow that up with a new release in the US?

Maybe its Sonys Clié division's policy to only release in other countries a 6 weeks before a new version is announced. If so, I'll never buy one!

please put things into perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

Only compatible with Sony headphones, Sony memory stick, Sony software etc etc.

Any headphone works, and for software... Sony doesn't own the PalmOS, does it?

you can be sure that even if only the stylus brakes you're going to pay lots for a new one.

How the hell did Sony design a peice of plastic to be incompatible with other peices of plastic from other vendors?? This is newsworthy in and of itself...

To imagine what a new cradle or AC adapter costs is left to the reader...

I guess if you're nuts enough to be actually somehow break a cradle (usually sturdy), you'll have to buy from sony, but AC adapters are pretty much universal. (only volt and amp output matters.) In my house alone there have been billions of AC adapters. Ive never heard of anyone breaking one before.

The only point you make is the memory stick. Handhelds don't come with as many expensive peripherals as in PCs. And memory sticks are cool anyway. I think there was a Slashdot poll on portable memory a few days ago, may still be up.

Tongue Twister

[bachelor3]

...the coolest Palm clone crown.

Try saying that 3 times quickly.

One

[Anonymous Coward]

But I don't believe you.

accessory (high) pricing

[subgeek]

it does give pricing on the website.

• accessory pages for:
• peg-n760c
  
• peg-t615c (new)
  
• peg-t415
  
• peg-s360 (new)
  

• prices you wondered about:
• stylus - $14.99 for a 3-pack
  
• cradle - $49.99
  
• ac adaptor - $29.99
  

my favorite is the audio adaptor for $129.99, which is the only thing that looks like headphones on the accessory page for the t615c. on the bright side you could get the audio adaptor and the t615c for just slightly less than the price of the n760c and have an ultra-slim mp3 playing clie. too bad to play mp3s you would probably want the 128MB memory stick ($149.95).

it's cool, but not cool enough for me to part with that much cash. at least not just yet.

Why Sony, why Palm?

[dzym]

Get one of these babies instead. There's ActiveSync type software for Linux, and if you tire of PocketPC 2002 OS, you can always put Linux on it.

For $430 (after rebate) you get 240x320, 96MB of storage, 206MHz StrongARM processor, expansion pack capability including "compactflash" and PCMCIA cards, infrared capability, USB, and it plays whatever audio Windows Media Player will take, up to and including MP3.

The question is, why Palm?

Re:Why Sony, why Palm?

[Anonymous Coward]

The question is, why Palm?

Because it's not Microsoft. You're new here, aren't you :).

~~~

What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation?

[acceleriter]

A GPL violation was brought to the community's attention here. Has Sony made the source available to those who downloaded the emulator without redistribution restriction, in accordance with the GPL? Or did we just let them get away with that little shenanigan and then advertise for them on the front page?

It would seem particularly fitting that a company so invested in protecting it's intellectual "property" (q.v. the "Churchill" speech about blocking P2P music sharing, harassment of Aibo fan sites, SDMI memory sticks) shoud be hoisted on its own petard.

When are the PalmOS ARM models due?

[Belly of the Beast]

I thought I'd finally dropped my HandSpring one too many times and was afraid I'd have to buy another DragonBall (68k) model to hold me over until the ARM models arive. Palm and ARM are going to rock!
P.S. I just had to do a full reset to bring it back to life. Hot Sycn and I was goo to go (except for having to reload a password for my Bonsai Outliner)

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[swv3752]

Apparently it is corrected as there is now support for clies in the latest linux kernel.

GPS??

[benshutman]

Has anyone heard anything about possible release dates for the GPS addon?

Re:GPS??

[mliu]

It's out in Japan, and Sony refuses to comment on release dates for it, if ever, in the rest of the world.

Re:GPS??

[Anonymous Coward]

they already have a memory stick gps unit availble on there website, dont' remember where, but saw it the other day

Mr. CaN

I don't get it

[maj12_lovebuzz]

I honestly don't see the point in having one of these things. All my addresses/phone numbers are on my cell phone, as well as my web browser. I don't relish the idea of carrying my remote control around. In terms of programs and funtionality - they suck. I'd rather lug around a 10 lb laptop that can run Counterstrike than play Solitaire on one of these useless pieces of silicon. If you have one: what do you people use them for? Really?

I've played with both

[jbf]

I've had a 3870 for about a week. I use a Vx as my regular PDA. The 3870 is kinda neat, with its color screen, but it's too bulky to carry everywhere.

I could see using a 3870 as a laptop replacement with an 802.11 card. As a PDA with WinCE, its calendar sucks compared to DateBk4, it doesn't have travel management software like TravelTracker, the lack of something like MidCapsHack on the block recognizer makes it somewhat less useful, things run super-slow, and there's no free SSH client. Oh yeah, and the dev environment is a pain in the tush.

The Linux support for the 3870 is coming slowly, but it's not going to replace my datebook. There isn't a decent calendaring program yet for iPaq linux, and that's a necessary prerequisite to being a PDA. Not to mention the total lack of an address book. And don't get me started on power management issues...

Synce doesn't work yet, either.

Obviously, there's a reason I have an iPaq, but it sure as heck isn't because I think it's a PDA. If I lost my Vx, I'd get a PalmOS box, even though switching over to the iPaq would be free.

Sony Handheld Boycott

[BonziDogFace]

I recently purchased a Palm m505. While I really like Sony's features and such I really don't like Sony's actions as part of the big 5 entertainment group. They are a strong advocate of the DMCA and seem to be on the forefront of actions to restrict a consumers ability to use their personal property. As such I have made a decision to avoid their products.

Breakable screens

[MJArrison]

A word of warning to handheld owners: No matter which handheld you end up with, Do not carry them in your back pocket!. I even had a hard aluminum case on mine, and the screen craked straight down the middle. That fast it was rendered totally useless. Granted, I have a larger than average backside... I'm just saying be careful.

Re:Breakable screens

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh!

Re:Breakable screens

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like it's not only the hardware that breaks if you do that. My M505 crashes consistently when I carry it in my back pocket. Must have to do something with my behind touching the screen all the time. Anyway, talked to palm about it and got the standard "we do not recommend carrying the thing in your back pocket" answer.

what os?

[theAmazingTom]

What OS are you running on your ARM processor?

:)

Re:what os?

[jerk]

Wouldn't it still be Palm?

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[conan_albrecht]

I've got a sony clie and I use Linux 100%. JPilot works perfectly with Palms (including Sony). The USB interface doesn't work, but there are two other options:

1. I use the IR port to my laptop for syncing. A little slower, but it works on the road and I don't have to take the cradle.

2. I also ordered a serial port cable for it from a third-party company in Hong Kong. I don't remember the company name, but I found it on an old post of slashdot 6 months ago or so.

The memory stick, while I wish they had used more standard cards, is not that bad. I have the sony PCMCIA card reader for memory sticks, and Linux (Mandrake) recognizes it perfectly as /dev/hdc. It's just a VFAT filesystem that can be mounted like anything else. No drivers or installs, I just slid it in and it was recognized as a removable hard drive.

760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[jmorse]

The high-end model with an MP3 player has DRM "features"...the MP3 software won't simply play MP3s off a standard memory stick. You have to buy their "copy-protected" memory stick and use their software to upload the songs....which limits your uploads to one computer and only 3 uploads per song. I bought one of these last month and am totally dissappointed. The screen res is great, but the MP3 player (the main reason I bought this model) is totally worthless. It's as if Sony wants to implement pay-per-play for music you already own.

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[mliu]

Please mod the parent post down from its current positive moderation as uninformed.

I find it hard to believe that you actually own the 760 and say those things, but on the off chance that you aren't trolling, then you are simply underinformed on the 760 you own. It plays regular mp3s. In fact, you have to buy a special magic gate memory stick that doesn't even come with the machine to get access to the DRM 'features' (ie proprietary ATRAC format playback).

Maybe you'd be a lot less disappointed in your product you purchased if you plugged it into your computer and tried putting some mp3s on that blue memory stick that came with it.

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[ptomblin]

the MP3 software won't simply play MP3s off a standard memory stick

Bullshit. I'm playing The Pogues "Sunnyside of the Street" off the 8mb unprotected memory stick that came with it as I type this. I stuck the Clie in the cradle, ran MS-Import, mounted it in Linux (love that usb-device support), copied 3 mp3 files on, and then went into the built-in MP3 player and they all played fine.

The mp3 software won't play "protected" mp3s that you get from Sony's web site without the protected memory stick, but who the hell would want to do that?

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[ptomblin]

As an addendum to the above, I'd like to mention that I've only use MP3s that I've ripped myself from CDs that I own (using Linux ripping tools). I have some MP3s from a CD that I bought from mp3.com, but I haven't tried them to see if they have DRM "features", but I doubt it.

I certainly haven't tried any mp3s from Sony or other pay-per-play sites that would have DRM, nor have I tried MP3s from Napster or Kazaa or other music sharing services, nor do I intend to.

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[puck01]

I have a Clie and also did not buy if for mp3 playing purposes. However, I do use it to play mp3s quite often and what you are saying in my experience is just not true.

If you use the purple memory sticks, which are the only ones I ever see for sale, you can play mp3s with the Clie, as many as you can fit on the memory stick.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by you have to "use their software to upload songs". I know of several ways to put songs on the Clie. First, if you get a MS reader, you can copy any and all files to and from the stick thru USB.

There is a driver that comes with the Clie, when installed, that allows you to use the Clie as a MS reader. With the driver installed, everytime I plug my Clie into its craddle, the memory stick appears on my computer as a "remote drive". Using the feature, I can copy files back and forth, no restrictions.

You can also use "their software" on the Clie in the audio player to copy songs to the MS if you please. I have never ran into any limits doing it this way either.

The only limit I have ran into, is when i have used a white memory stick. In that case, I've been free to copy *any* file to or from the memory stick. The white MS, however, will not allow you to *play* the mp3s on the Clie.

puck

Re:760 model has crappy DRM "features"

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I had a similar problem.
The built-in audio app won't play some of
my MP3's, but it plays others. I think it's the
encoding rate. It doesn't seem to like the 22KHz
MP3's, but likes the higher rate ones? Does
that make sense?

Also, when it fails, it gives only a generic
error.

This track is not available because of either
of the following reasons: Does not support
the copyright system or the file format. The
Memory Stick media is Write-protected.

The write-protect warning is a complete red herring!

I went looking for a 3rd party MP3 player,
but no dice. I guess the built-in audio
hardware is a custom interface, it's too
new to have any shareware for it yet.

Sony Clie Support Sucks

[Ardvaark]

I own the original Clie, and I'd recommend anyone against getting a Sony PDA. Do you remember the old Palm V clone Clie that came out about a year ago? No? Well, that's okay, because neither does Sony.

My product doesn't exist according to Sony's website. You can't find the software to support it anymore, and my repeated attempts to contact Sony tech support about it have failed. I'm almost hoping it dies so I can have a good excuse to get a Palm or Handspring (mmmmm...Treo....).

So whatever you do, don't buy a new Clie. Sony will lock you in with their inferior proprietary media formats and then cease to acknowledge your existance twelve moenths later.

Re:Sony Clie Support Sucks

[mliu]

Seems like the level of Sony bashing on Slashdot is almost as high as the level of Microsoft bashing........

I'll be the first to admit that Sony has bad product support. But funny that you say that it doesn't exist according to Sony's website and that you can't find the software to support your 1.5 year old PDA considering they just released the Windows XP support update for it just at the end of December......

http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/clie/softupd at es/S300/index.html

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[acceleriter]

That's interesting--thank you. The controversy was over POSE (the GPL'd Palm emulator), particularly that Sony added support for the jog dial and didn't release the source. I haven't been able to find anything indicating that they've changed their stand on this, but would be gratified to learn of it.

Mac?

[Richard Bannister]

Anyone know if the new Clies will sync on a Mac? Palm Desktop supports it, but previous Clies have not been compatible with the Mac Hotsync.

Re:Mac?

[Jotham]

It syncs fine with the latest Palm software for OS X

Coz you are not on bleeding edge....

[2Bits]

There's no way you can convince a geek to get an old model toy, dude. We are geek, and there's no way we leave ourself behind. We NEED the latest model, at all cost. How are you supposed to show your geekiness if you don't have the latest model?

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[i0lanthe]

I went to their third-party developers page one more time to check it out. It still says "source code will be available with the final version". (What's wrong with this picture...) There are two download links labelled Emulator ("PEG-T600C/T400/T415" and "PEG-S and PEG-N Series") and one download link labelled Source ("PEG-S and PEG-N Series"). This sounds to me like they have gotten, at most, half of a clue.

Not that I'm likely to develop for their platform when they require a fax number, which I don't have, to complete the handshake protocol for the ROM download contract, which last time I looked at it (months ago) didn't look like anything I wanted to sign anyway. (Not that I objected to the terms, but that I couldn't parse the terms. I can deal with legalese or with foreign-instruction-manual English but please not both at once.)

I would like to see an updated Psion 5mx-type PDA

[SylvesterTheCat]

I would really like to see a PDA similiar to the Psion 5mx with the following additions:

• Color display
• StrongArm 206 MHz processor
• USB port
• built in modem
• PC card type II slot
• PalmOS (whatever the version is that they will create/release for StrongArm)

Additionally, keep the IrDA port, Compact Flash slot, keyboard, and larger display that the Psion 5mx has already.

This would give a larger display with a true keyboard. I've tried the Blackberry-type and they will not work for what I want to do, i.e. create/view/edit documents and spreadsheets without having to lug around a laptop. All that would be left is for an updated verson of DocumentsToGo to make use of the larger display.

Why PalmOS you ask? I have had a IIIxe for a year and I really like their desktop PIM. It is easy to use and works well (at least for me). Also since Palm/PalmOS has great name brand recognition in the US, that would probably be good from a marketing point-of-view.

I would think that there would be a great market for such a device. Something between the traditional handheld Palm devices and a full laptop. Handera? Sony? Palm? Are any of you listening?

mp3s on the clie -- how?

[Erich]

Does the clie have a built-in DSP or does it send data out to that funky headphone thing? Or do they decode mp3s on their dragonball (or do they use another microprocessor)? I don't understand how it works.

If they have an extra DSP on there, if you can program it, it might be possible to support other audio formats (such as ogg vorbis).

Re:mp3s on the clie -- how?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a DSP. I doubt that the Dragonball is powerful to do the decoding by itself, let alone in the background while other applications are active.

There's no documentatio about any of it, though.

Re:mp3s on the clie -- how?

[puck01]

The sony clie does not use the processor to play mp3's. Its way too slow. They have a built in chip that decodes mp3s and their proprietary format - ATRAC3. The audio port is a regular ol' audio out you can plug just about any set of headphones into.

puck

T415

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got the T415 on monday and while it isn't color the screen (320 x 320) looks great. I only wish i could have afforded the color model, but if anybody wants the T415 circut city is selling them for 229.99

Mr. CaN

redundant yet informative...

[Anonymous Coward]

So this information, while new, was previously known. Interesting moderation.

finally, a no-BS handheld

[xeno]

I wholeheartedly agree, and I put my money where my mouth is. I bought the 330 this christmas, and don't have a single regret. The screen is excellent (I only see scaling artifacts in one 3rd party app), the memory flexibility is nice, the voice recorder almost crosses over from nifty to useful, and the form factor allows me to use the doodads I've invested in (such as the keyboard, modem, extra cradles, palmpix camera, etc).

I spent a long time looking for an upgrade from my Workpad 20x (Palm III), and looked long and hard at the Sony PalmOS handhelds. But when the rubber hit the road, I came to some comparatively negative conclusions about the Sony:

• color is nice but not really useful to any app I use (except maybe the PalmPix, which is just a toy)
• the form factor/size isn't so much better as to justify buying a new keyboard & cradles
• I'll buy into that proprietary MemoryStick(TM) crap when they pry my CF+ and MMC cards from my cold dead handheld.

OTOH, the 330 gave me some killer advantages:

• Screen rotation combined with high-resolution text and spreadsheet apps is a compelling combination. Being able to reference items from large collections of synchronized information is why I carry this thing around. Seeing more of it at once (esp in landscape mode) is better. I'm anxiously awaiting the update to Brainforest, which Aportis says (as of last week) is in the queue behind a scalable/rotatable version of AportisDoc.
• I can use memory expansion (MMC), network connectivity (CF), and a keyboard (serial) all at once. And I can plug in the power at the same time. It's not a laptop-killer, but then again, everything I've seen pitched as a laptop-killer is so bulky as to become what it's supposed to kill. This is as close as you can get and still shove the whole mess of system and accessories into a coat pocket.
• The buttons are concave. I wouldn't have believed the difference this makes, but after using a Workpad for almost 3 years, the buttons on the 330 are a godsend. It really does make a huge difference in ease of use if you can just poke a button with the stylus and keep writing, rather than shifting your hand to finger it, then going back to the pen. These guys were being thoughtful in the design.
• The LiIon battery is a very nice touch, balanced by the practical ability to pop in some AAA's if you don't have the recharger with you.

Overall, I just found the 330 a better combination of practical features than any other option.
That's my $0.02
-Jon

Clie = fancy aluminum patchwork

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony's Palm-cloning "achievements" have left me unimpressed. What they are doing is tacking consumer devices together (mp3 player + Palm, etc.) and covering them with a metal shell. What's the big deal here? Their integration is nothing more than a glorified duct-tape job. The Compaq iPaq and other Pocket PCs are powerful enough to play back MP3s using the built-in system hardware, not with a dedicated co-processor that adds to the cost and general OS weirdness.

All Sony did was throw in new hardware that can only play MP3s and write a Palm front-end to it. Meanwhile, the rest of their system can only play blips and beeps through the tiny grating piezoelectric speaker. Why doesn't Palm just write a better OS from the ground-up that doesn't work around technology limitations from 1997?

Sony make TV's

[obi-1-kenobi]

I would not use this PDA... Sony make TV's and really crapy laptops... Buying a sony PDA is like buying a Nike watch. Sony can only make good TV's that is it.

Re:Very sad day

[Anonymous Coward]

Not Necessarily! Sony doean't have a mobile phone presence in North America (yet). They will be bringing new toys to the market soon. Remember, Sony likes to wait until technology is mature to release it. When they enter a market, you can be sure they will have researched it, and carefully designed their device. (They learned that from their original attempt ot enter the American cellular market)

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[Anonymous Coward]

Your problems with the ROM contract are completely wrong. Have you even tried to read the agreement?

1) You are not required to provide a fax number. If you do not have a fax machine, you can fill in "999", and they email you scans of the signed agreement.

2) The ROM contract is not in Engrish legalese. It's just legalese. Most of it was drafted by Palm and Sony US.

(The developer site itself and the instructions about downloading the ROM are in Engrish, though.)

MemoryStick

[Kanasta]

does anyone know the difference btwn the blue MemoryStick and the 'MagicGate' MemoryStick?

I know the MagicGate costs more and the sales persons said MagicGate can be used to hold data files (what the hell is everyone storing on the blue ones if it's not data?). If the sales people can't explain the difference...

Re:MemoryStick

[Anonymous Coward]

the grey one is for secure music and has some kind of copy protection. the blue one is just your everyday memory stick, with a little overwrtie switch thing on it.

Re:MemoryStick

[puck01]

Blue memory stick = play mp3s (plays "insecure music")

White memory stick = can't play mp3s (plays only "secure music")

There is no good reason to get the white ones, that I know of, since the blues ones are exactly the same except they allow mp3s to be played.

Re:MemoryStick

[Anonymous Coward]

The grey ones have "MagicGate" support built into the stick. I guess it's in the firmware?
Anyway, the blue ones are more or less just a media. They don't support any special MagicGate stuff.

This difference can easily be compared to "CD-R Audio" and normal "CD-R". One supports SCMS, the other doesn't.

If you buy a Sony digital audio player that uses Memory stick, you have to use the MagicGate Memory sticks.

Also, take a look at your PS2 Memory card. That has MagicGate, too! Cool, huh?

IR Port

[nick_davison]

Hopefully the enhanced IR actually means an enhanced IR port as opposed to just coming bundled with the software.

I own a Clie and love it for almost everything - particularly the style of a Palm (as opposed to the bugly Visors) and the more sensibly priced memory sticks - so I'm generally biased towards, not against, Clies. Even so, the Clie's IR port appears to be the worst implemented of all the variants. Running the existing remote software, you can only actually control stuff if you're facing it perfectly from a few (read less than 3-4) feet away. Unless they sort out the hardware, all the great software in the world won't make it worth using.

On the other hand, it is still amusing to record people's IR keyless car entries and screw with them.

It could be great but I hope you'll end up getting more than just higher resoultion and a branded version of a web download for that extra $90 (S320s are going for about $160 at the moment).

Gray, but cool

[fm6]

Oh yes, I want one. "Virtual graffiti area" is kind of a silly term, though. What the 330 does is give you a bigger screen, then use the extra screen area to draw a graffiti area you can hide. Very, very nice.

The only deficit is that it's a grayscale display -- and is that really a deficit? Face it, Palm-based products are successful because they're basic and simple. Silly to try to make them into multimedia devices. A color display does add a little to readability, but not enough to justify the extra cost and (more important) the shortened battery life.

important!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

when will you stupid americans realise that the correct spelling is COLOUR
by using COLOR you are only making yourselves look
stupider than you already are

Not too expensive anymore

[puck01]

Last I checked I could buy 128 megabytes for 45.00 at buy.com after rebate. That is certainly comperable to CF and secure digital.

puck

Does the screen still crack easily?

[jessh]

I have a friend who has had two different recent models of Sony Clie, the first ones screen broke the day after he got it, it was dropped from about 2 feet up, yes that shouldnt have happened but it broke so easily that it seems like bad design to me, he bitched at the place he got it at until they refunded atleast some of his money, he then bought a newer model with a really nice waranty so if it broke they would replace it for free. Well it broke, I dont remember exactly what happened, and they replaced it for free but the waranty didnt cover the new one. The third one broke while he was walking around with it just in his pocket, he couldnt think of anything that would have caused it.

I admit they have great features but they dont seem very durable. He didnt treat them that bad and the same piece broke 3 times on 2 different models, sure seems like bad design to me, btw sony said it would cost $100 to replace the screen.
My Handspring Visor on the other hand has put up with me treating it like shit, it is in my pocket all of the time, sometimes in my jacket, it has been stepped on, dropped everything and its in great shape. dont get me started about the Dell laptop though.... grrr....

sony bad, bad dmca, bad sony!

[motherhead]

over the last five years i have had a number of PalmOS devices, four Palms (Pilot, Pilot Pro, IIIC, VII) and a Handspring Visor Prism Deluxe (door prize at a tech conference). I like the PalmOS and can write in graphitti as quickly as i can english with pen and paper.

with that said i just picked up an HP Journada 568. Yes i feel traitorous and wrong. no i am probably not going to install embedded linux on it. this is why i bought it: blah blah memory, blah blah expandibility, blah blah resolution, blah blah handheld gaming (which is why the HP and not the iPaq)

this is my point: Sony is evil.
I will explain; i love the PalmOS and the sexiest version is probably the Clie, it stinks of quality and chicks dig it. but the fact is sony is only allowed to sell me DVD players and a Playstation2, Why: because they feel they have a right to dictate and mitigate what digital media i choose to store on my personal devices. they are a major backbone of the MPAA/RIAA mafia and they support that vile little storage device protocol that will "inhibit" consumers from duplicating copywritten materials. They were the company behind getting the DMCA forced through washington.

for these sins against humanity i can never bring myself to blowing coin on any media device that stores my personal data that they produce.(if you want to tell me how a PS2 is just such a device, blow me, i am not putting mp3s, oggs, and whatever else on my PS2)

too bad because i love sony consumer electronic devices. but no, politically they are the anti-christ.

Re:Better the real or another totally different th

[hacker]

I've got a sony clie and I use Linux 100%. JPilot works perfectly with Palms (including Sony). The USB interface doesn't work, but there are two other options:

If I were you, I'd return it for a working unit with USB.

USB (though it's still using a serial protocol across that USB interface) works perfectly well under Linux with pilot-link and Coldsync. Join us on Efnet on #pilot-link for help if you need it. I'm releasing a new version of pilot-link which does protocol auto-detection, so Handspring (old "USB" protocol) and Sony devices (new "USB"/net protocol) is detected and used properly. People have had no issues. Works with JPilot (with a slight update) and Evolution (AC_PILOT_LINK) and other apps.

I'm disappointed

[Salamander]

I was really drooling over the 610, which seems to've been discontinued in favor of the 615. What's disappointing is that a large part of the 610's appeal for me was the viewable-in-all-light reflective screen it shared with the higher-priced 760. According to the specs, the 615 is using a boring old transmissive TFT with a backlight. Now I can only get the cooler screen if I pay more $$$ for a 760 that has features I don't want. :-(

Sony still doesn't learn. (re: GPL violation)

[hacker]

I've been hoping they'd learn, but they still do not. I just checked the Sony Palm Developer website, and they have a Windows binary of POSE, the PalmOS Emulator. This binary covers "PEG-T600C/T400/T415" models and another binary on the same site covers "PEG-S and PEG-N Series" models. The source code that they have available only covers "PEG-S and PEG-N Series" models. These are all from November 20th, 2001.

Sony, where is the POSE source code for the "PEG-T600C/T400/T415" series version of POSE? You have two new models of Clie devices on the horizon, and I'm sure that developers would like to begin supporting them, further increasing your sales margins. You have a Windows binary of POSE available that supports these models, you are legally bound to provide the source code which generated these binaries.

Here's a quote from your PalmOS® developer page:

The source code will be available with the final version.

Sony, listen closely.. you really need to make yourself aware of the GPL before you blindly violate it like this. If you come back with the excuse that you are "cleaning up the code", you are still in violation. "Cleaned up" code will produce a different binary. You are bound, by the GPL, with releasing the source code which generates any binary you create and distribute from that source code, Windows, Unix, or Macintosh.

I will be in attendance at Palmsource in a few weeks, and I hope you will be as well, because I intend to fully bring this to the attention of yourself, and everyone else there. I have been quiet about this issue, but believe me, I am not backing down.

I have reluctantly added support to pilot-link for the Sony devices, most of which are randomly designed in nature, so that you can see increased sales due to the non-Windows users purchasing your hardware. How about giving back to the community that has been supporting your bottom line for the last two years, instead of raping and stealing from it?

I see only one way that you can claim that you are allowed to proceed with this violation, and that would be if the original copyright holder of xcopilot relicensed or sold the copyright to that code to Palm and then they in turn relicensed it to you. I do not see that being the case, since all previous versions of POSE that you have made available have been based on publically available GPL versions of the codebase. From your own site:

This is the same software level as Palm OS® Emulator 3.0a8 (PEG-S and PEG-N Series) and Palm OS® Emulator 3.2 (PEG-T415), distributed by Palm,Inc.

I anxiously await your public response to this matter.

What!!

[Dr_Bones]

I've owned one of these for months!! Ok, I do work for Sony, but... Seriously, this is old stuff

Now all it needs is a screen

[metamatic]

Apparently I'm the only person who wants a larger screen on these things. Not more pixels or smaller pixels -- I want a screen that's actually comfortable to read books on. That'd be a reason to upgrade.

Ah well.

Re:What's Sony done to correct their GPL violation

[i0lanthe]

Like I said, I hadn't read the agreement in months. It does look better written than I remember from last year, disregarding various typos - I may well have hashed it into the same mental bin as their API documentation by mistake (I will assume that that has improved in the meantime). But you've failed to mention that although I don't actually need a fax receiving number (if I have an email account with enough space to receive a scanned contract that might be all 8 pages if they're feeling thorough), I do still need to fax them the contract after I sign it.

I could go down to Mailboxes Etc. and pay them for the privilege of using their machine to send and/or receive, or I could even go down to Office Despot or whatever and buy a fax machine of my Very Own for perhaps the price of a double latte at Starbucks.

And then I could support a platform that involves having to reboot from linux to windows on every compile-and-test cycle just to use the emulator. Handera was extreeeemely borderline for this reason, and requiring me to jump through an extra hoop for the ROM contract, trivial though it may be!, puts Sony one baby step over the edge. If they switch to a clickwrap, sure, I'll suck it up and reboot a lot for them too. Or if a linux port of their emulator magically appears (fat chance even if they do release the source), sure, I'll cough up the dough for their little fax handshake, seeing as how I have now spent more time posting in this thread than it would have taken me to walk (uphill both ways, in the snow,) to the nearest copyshop that offers fax service.

Of course my own personal quibbles (about which no one but me really cares and I'm not even sure about me) are beside the original point of this thread, which is that yes Sony is still in violation of the GPL with respect to the executable-only release of their latest emulator.

These things are going to break in half!

[Tranchula]

I didn't think palms could get any thiner...well...I'll get one,put it in my pocket,forget its there and the next thing i know I'm pulling misc. parts out of my pocket. 400 dollars worth of parts. Mabey when they go down in price.