Slashdot Mirror

Way to early in the AM

Do the Chinese even use Google much? I thought the most popular search engine there was Baidu. In fact, I seem to recall that China redirected Google to Baidu at least once.

In other news, Baidu implement a website to download MP3s
http://mp3.baidu.com/

GP says it's increasing slowly because the technophiles already use it, and normal people just go to http://video.baidu.com/

Also, other big services (like, say, video chat, google maps, etc) are breaking into the mainstream.

A corollary (sorry, lemma ... my math is weak nowdays) to that argument is that most people don't want to wait for anything on the internet. If it doesn't start playing immediately (i.e. YouTube), nobody who hasn't heard of slashdot will watch it.

making google unreliable is a subtle argument for chinese citizens to depend upon chinese competitors to google, such as baidu

http://www.baidu.com/

does the outlay of that page look familiar to you?

for example, if my gmail account in china is unreliable- due to no fault of google, but unreliable nonetheless, that means i would tend to use some other email provider for that vital service. for baidu, all you have to do is have a fellow nationalist stooge in the government hit the flicker switch on google's traffic every now and then. since china is filtering everything anyway via centralized national authority, that's not hard to arrange

its a subtle and effective form of protectionism, something which the usa and other trading partners of china have noticed a severe uptick of recently, due to the global economic climate. which is especially hypocritical, since china, as a major exporter, is always complaining about protectionism

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/business/economy/24yuan.html

HONG KONG -- China has begun a concerted effort to keep its export economy humming, even as demand for its goods has plummeted with the global downturn.

Risking the ire of the United States and other trading partners, the Chinese government has quietly started adopting policies aimed at encouraging exports while curbing imports, even though China, as one of the world's largest exporters, has aggressively criticized protectionism in other countries.

The government has sharply expanded three programs to help exporters, giving them larger tax rebates, more generous loans from state-owned banks to finance trade, and more government-paid travel to promote themselves at trade shows around the world.

At the same time, Beijing has banned all local, provincial and national government agencies from buying imported goods except in cases where no local substitute exists.

Manufacturer Link:
http://www.dingoo888.com/en_product.asp?id=11&classid=

Linux Support:
http://www.dingoo-digital.com/faq/usage/how-large-memory-stick-can-i-use-with-my-dingoo

Current price on taobao and baidu: 490RMB to 510RMB roughly
http://item.taobao.com/auction/item_detail--.jhtml?taomi=8aR2LQR6GJPc%2FSsefn68O%2Ffjs6U7s6vjhXJ6z0eRSvmXdPzKyl6UzTR3B%2BsJL6Yp3pkWRIEUjc1cDBtIy8ZI44SnWz2yxngDX%2Bjua%2F%2Fl4xneY5g%2FX%2BF1HE1uVrfByevZymqif0Rf4JaiIUo41U4pNrG0pKl8SyNyOfP2gorsCYm5bWEYyHjXKb8BpuCiXM%2FU%2FXlutqRb2AoqZsLjRBpg5owK3cUwKnMuX4V9mlX8GJW%2B
http://youa.baidu.com/item/3758aed4fb8e0a13b840dfc8

It's called the Dingo A320. Also known as the Gemei A320.

Display: 16,000,000 color 2.8-inch LTPS-TFT true color high-definition
screen , broadcast effect 320 * 240, the true and clear picture quality,
unique DVD Optimization technology .

Games: play games in (8 bit/16bit/32bit) GBA/3D GBA/NDS/PSP formats
and play more by upgrading the software
AV-out:AV-out technology gives DVD output quality, can be a portable DVD
player and game console.

Video player: Video function supports in various format such as RMVB,
RM, AVI, WMV, FLV, MPEG, DAT, MP4, ASF and help users encold video files
in an easy and convenient way.

MP3 player: Audio function supports MP3,WMA APE, FLAC audio format,
synchronous lyrics display function, multiple EQ options,3D virtual
sound field, surround sound effect and play mode options. Music can keep
playing while using other application.

Digital recorder:Voice recording and supports MP3/WAV formats.

Image Browser: Image browsing format includes JPG, BMP GIF, PNG, with
zoom, rotate and image slide show function.

E-book: Feather function includes bookmark, auto browsing, font sizing,
TTS oral reading and can open with music player application.

U-disk virus protection: Build in anti-virus software protect and keep
the system at its best performance.

USB2.0 Transmission Interface: Support WIN2000/XP?VISTA/MAC Operation
System.

Capacity: 4GB memory, supports inserted MINI SD card to expand capacity.
up to 16GB.

There's still Web Pages That Suck. :)

And the Chinese webmasters and users still believe in a "busy" front page.

Even portals reflect that mentality. Examples:

• Yahoo! USA vs Yahoo! China.
• Youtube vs Todou

It is rare indeed for Chinese websites to be minimalist. Examples:

• Google USA and Google China.
• Baidu

I imagine it depends what you search for on it.

I wonder what search engine he uses by the way. :)

I see Balmer as a living on the edge kind of guy.
Obviously Baidu is the natural choice for him.

these document merely have names and born year, not picture attached to them, nor any actual serial numbers directly associated with the person in any way.

Ok, how about this one.

Here is another page from sina.com, popular Chinese internet portal (baidu cache since original now gives 404)

You can see that the article is from Nov 3rd, 2007 and for those who can't read Chinese: in the middle it says "13 years old Wuhan-athlete He Kexin..."

Like the 'F** tibet' group? LOL ps. Xinnet really sucks. http://www.baidu.com/baidu?word=%D0%C2%CD%F8+%C0%AC%BB%F8

It doesn't seem to be a problem of filters. If you search using Chinese characters, results seem to be coming up fine, at least for me.

Yes, I'm a Chinese. Baidu crawls Chinese websites to index music files stored on various servers. You just need to submit your homepage, and baiduspider will index your music files along with html/etc. The link to submit is: http://www.baidu.com/search/url_submit.html The submission page itself is in Chinese. But it's still easy to use. You input your address and the Captcha code, hit the button and it's done. Good luck with your CC music.

What exactly did you search for - I just entered your name and your music seems to be available.

But Google doesn't set up a page with links to searches like that for the top 500 tracks (as well as other selections by genre) and link to that page from their homepage.

and everything seems normal. A search for ææ or gaming on baidu returns a thousand similar sites: http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=%D3%CE%CF%B7 , all of them working. Lesson to be learned: twitter isnt a great news source, and neither are twitter-derived news sites.

As a Chinese I have to say This is bullshit 0% of Chinese Internet Users trust CNNIC http://www.baidu.com/baidu?word=CNNIC+%C1%F7%C3%A5 CNNIC = Malware in CHina.

If it is just keyword match, then you could get around it with simple ROT13 lol. :D

Btw goto http://www.baidu.com/ a popular Chinese search engine.
Now try search for "Dalai Lama".
It will close the connection.

Large governments do tend to engage in nationalistic hypocracy, however, so I guess this shouldn't be terribly surprising.

Large governments do tend to engage in nationalistic hypocracy, however, so I guess this shouldn't be terribly surprising.

1. Wikipedia is redirected to Baidu knows, which is a copycat (I would call it plagiarism) of wikipedia minus all "unwanted" information of the Chinese government.
2. youtube is redirected to 6 rooms, another idea copycat.

Who needs them, when you can go to http://www.baidu.com/ and look for "www.google.com", see the results... Try clicking on the google link.

How some people treat everything "Google" as if it were special. It would be news worth *if* Google was beating local searches in foreign areas.

They forgot by far the biggest non-US competitor, Chinese http://www.baidu.com/

Persons of wealth buying the positions (in the Church and in the Armed Services) isn't something that happened (or happens) in tribal societies - nor (in the Western) world does it happen today. (It was largely wiped out in the late 1800's to early 1900's.) It was rare in feudal Japan and virtually nonexistent in classical China. It was extremely rare in classical Greece and semi-common only in later period Rome. In fact in the Western world - the practice was only widespread from late medieval times to early modern times.

Not sure where you got your facts. Buying of government positions has been a Chinese tradition for as long as recorded history. Although it was not made an official route to said positions until the Qing dynasty, it has always been the norm.

Here is an official receipt for a purchased position.

and here is a little article about this practice... if you could read Chinese.

When comrades in Russia have fallen, the victorious red flag was transferred to the hands of Chinese revolutionaries. The chorus that echoes the spirit of no charge, equality and public ownership still exists in the land of the Middle Kingdom.
Please from now on use the Chinese language to find music download.
http://mp3.baidu.com/

First open Baidupedia ( a Chinese wikipedia clone): http://baike.baidu.com/

Then try to search on some censored word like: (falun gong)

You should now get a "Connection reset by peer" message

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I don't like the way our US government is restricting my rights and invading my privacy... At least the people of China can move to the US to gain more freedom.

If they're gonna move to another country with a less invasive government anyway, then they might want to skip the US for the duration of the current administration. We're better than China, but, as you stated, we're not really doing that well. NSA phone tapping, banking surveillance, and saving the children, oh my!

On another, semi-related note, the Chinese, at least in practice, have almost no copyright restrictions put on them when in comes to music. Users of http://www.baidu.com/ (Chinese search engine) can just pull tunes off of Chinese websites. In this area, the average Chinese person excercises more freedom than citizens of other countries. I think copyright infringment is still illegal. It's just that nobody cares. So if you were Chinese and all you cared about was free music (some people I know), then it would be to your disadvantage to come to America. BTW, I haven't been able to successfully use Baidu because I can't read or type Chinese, so I'm not speaking from personal experience.

I have heard for a number of years about the idea that American (or other foreign, for that matter) companies will be able to open new markets and profits by selling their products (whether they be tangible goods or IP) or services in the People's Republic of China because they represent an "almost untapped market of new customers." But does this really hold true, especially for IT companies?

In the seventeen years I have worked in the IT industry (mostly at companies which sold software, but also for a hardware vendor) I have seen varying degrees of interest in selling products in China. For example, in the late 1980s through early 1990s, I worked at McAfee Associates, which even then had a fairly global presence due to marketing the product as shareware. We had never had any sales in China and, as a matter of fact, would regularly receive copies of our own anti-virus software from which our copyright and contact information had been removed and replaced with messages saying it was from the Ministry of Public Security and to contact them if a virus was found. Of course, changing the messages in the software also set off its own anti-tamper checks for signs of damage/infection by a computer virus, so we received plenty of copies of our own software where the warning message had been edited as well and were infected by computer viruses. Still, it is very hard to sell a product in a country whose government itself is hacking and pirating the same software you are trying to sell. When Bill Larson took over the company from John McAfee he expressed a strong desire to sell products in China, but when I left in the mid-1990s there was still no sales coming in from over there, other than the occasional ex-pat who registered a copy of the software.

Strangely enough, the only company I've worked for which has had some success in China is a telecommunications manufacturer, who makes equipment like VoIP PBXs, phones and so forth. They have had a few wins over there and even have a small sales office in Beijing. I was always surprised they never had problems like Cisco did with Huawei. But that's just one company and sales from other countries in the region (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.) outstripped those. I haven't worked there since last year, but I doubt things have changed much.

So, where are the foreign IT companies which are making money in China? Cisco may have had some success there in the past, but Huawei and their "Cisco-like" products look like they are to overshadow them, and services like Alibaba, Baidu and QQ in China are already servicing the markets that Western ecommerce, search and community/messaging have had only limited success in reaching.

if Google hadn't done this, nobody would have been helped and all that would have happened is MSN would have become the default search engine in China.

Peasants! Worried the government will come after you for wondering what "dictatorship" is? Simply use this handy XSS sploit to session hijack your neighbor, and post as them!

http://passport.baidu.com/?login&tpl=wk1&u=%22%3E% 3Cscript%3Ealert(document.cookie)%3C/script%3E%3Cb %20a=%22

The Chinese version of Wikipedia has only 67k articles for several years of development, however this Baidu encyclopedia already has more articles than that within several days. Why is that? It is because Baidu doesn't care about copyrights. According to their user agreement/disclaimer (which is only available in Chinese), the content will be released under GFDL and/or CC-SA 2.5 (which are incompatible) and at the same time all copyrights are reserved by Baidu. In fact there are a bunch of other contradictions within the same document. On the other hand, its users also doesn't care about copyrights too, because many of the articles are just copied from all the sites around the web.

Therefore we don't have to take this Baidu encyclopedia seriously, because even Baidu doesn't take this encyclopedia seriously. They launch this project just to create cohesion within its users.

<conspiracy>However there is one more interesting thing about this Baidu encyclopedia: Baidu as a search engine raises to prominence in China after Google is blocked. And if you don't know already, the Chinese Wikipedia (actually all the wikimedia projects) is blocked in China. Coincidence?</conspiracy>

Sure looks like there's already a lot of questionable content on there...

before the Chinese government gets its hands on this technology anyway.
Make way for zhoogle!

You know, I just searched for "Tank Man" on http://www.baidu.com/ (the premier search engine in China, unaffected by the firewall), and the first link that came up was http://beyondpleasure.blogchina.com/4886647.html

It indeed has the picture and the story (in brief), and the page was indeed fetched from within China.

People all know about this, and this information will never go away. But you will not see it discussed in official media or anything like that.

Aw, man... why so negative? A search for Tian'an men (in Chinese) on Baidu gave me this cool picture. Much prettier to look at than some stupid tank man:

http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=345043300& tn=baiduimagedetail&word=%CC%EC%B0%B2%C3%C5&in=290

Fuck, when I do a search for Paris on Google Images, all I get is vacation pictures and that porn star... not a single picture of Nazi troops invading the city. A search on l'arc de triomphe also gives vacation pictures.

Anyway, Tian'an men square has been the stage for many more battles than the most recent one in 1989. For the Chinese, it is not synonymous with student protests or government massacres (and actually none died on the square itself) or demonstrations in general.

It is only to Westerners with an agenda it has that bloody connotation. Wonder when those people with an agenda will start picking om Mugabe instead? Or becoming a "human shield" in Zimbabwe? There were no human shields in Halabja either, nor in Iraq or Iran in the 1980s war.

Why so preoccupied with the square incident? Will it lead to something?

http://www.sinopolis.com/Archives/Sinopsis/Sinopsi s_990705.HTM

Here's a GREAT search engine that I use.
http://www.baidu.com/

I hope it's as useful to you as it is to me.

Sure! Have a look at http://www.baidu.com/.

Google provide a unique service, that cannot easily be replicated

Wrong

Over here, everyone may worship Google, but over there they are just another player.

You mean like Baidu?

The whole thing isn't about wondering if china could do without google. They *are* doing fine without google. Google is not the number one search engine in china. That would be http://www.baidu.com/ as far as I know. And google isn't really accepting censorship to stay in, because they fear they might be banned otherwise. They are doing it to try to get in, are they are regularly unreachable in china. I don't mean that no one ever uses google there, that would be wrong. But they are not the big and powerfull company they are in the western world.
As a matter of fact, even without them doing so, google is already censored in china. try to search for "falun gong" (a governement oposing relogious group), and you request will not reach google, and all you'll get is a network error, and the need to wait for a couple of minutes before you can access their home page again. So as far as i am conserned, this is an improvement.
before:
politicaly sensitive querry -> @#BoOoOM!! -> "this web site is crap, it doesn't work"

after:
politicaly sensitive querry -> "you request is illegal in china" -> "WTF? I knew there was censorship, but I never realised that it conserned me."

Well, this Canadian doesn't need to feel safer, and sure doesn't.

The slippery slope is a perfectly valid argument. Even if you don't personally believe in it, plenty of people do, which is going to seriously harm the trust and good will that Google has built up over a decade. Perhaps not enough that people learn Chinese and use Baidu, but lots.

Also, are you sure everything in there is anonymous? How about searches like alcoholics anonymous near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC, or nuclear power plants near wherever starwed lives? No way am I trusting the U.S. government with any of my data.

And finally, why should Google be imposed upon just because the U.S. Government is too lazy to do it's own research? Screw 'em!