Domain: befunk.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to befunk.com.
Comments · 31
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Torrent for iTunes6
FYI, I've put up a torrent for iTunes6 here
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Re:Goody?
I agree there's nothing special here. KDE running under X11 has worked on OSX for the past two revisions at least. I've been using it under DarwinPorts (I use Kopete, KMail, and Konquerer from my work machine via X11 Forwarding over SSH back to my powerbook to avoid any personal info being kept on my work machine or in the work proxy/filter logs).
What would be cool is not KDE under X11, but KDE as a native OSX application running under Cocoa. Konquerer itself is well worth using in place of the Finder. While Apple's Finder is decent, Konquerer is much more feature-rich. Same for Windows, a native KDE port would be nice, mostly so I could use Konquerer in place of Windows Explorer.
There are alpha builds of KDE for Aqua and for W32, if anyone is interested:
Info on getting KDE for Cocoa built: http://wiki.befunk.com/tiki-index.php
Info on getting QT3/Win and compiling KDE for native Win32: http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32/
Now these projects, when they progress a little further, warrant a slashdot posting about KDE running natively. -
Re:Erm... Why?
http://wiki.befunk.com/tiki-index.php
They say it's pre-alpha level code, but I did try it (ages ago). I know a friend who switched from Linux to a Mac, but still starts up X + KDE just to use KMail to check his mail. It would be nice to see more KDE apps running natively. -
Re:looks
Ahem, yes, I thought you were being sarcastic.
Excuse...
AFAIC the racoon is the only one trying to get KDE running natively on OS X and he's also a KDE on Fink contributor. Seems the best guy to approach for bug reporting and such. Be nice, I have the impression he works really hard on all this.
Cheers
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Hunting WOMBATs
At the X11 layer, Apple should provide good window management,
That's the WM layer, but close enough. The only significant difference from native apps is that all X11 windows are grouped together. An 'obvious' improvement would be to create a dock icon per X11 window group, but that would demand an inconsistent menu bar policy.clipboard integration
Already there.keycode management
I don't know what you mean by this, but the X11 keyboard layout can be synchronized to the system layout or set independently with xmodmap.printing
CUPS.and a small extension that would let X11 apps access Apple-native features through the X11 protocol.
One already can hook an X11 app into Carbon and Cocoa pretty much the same way any other app does it: including the headers and calling the functions. Virtually nobody does, because most developers place a high value on either consistency with the platform (i.e., not X11) or consistency across platforms (i.e., not Carbon and Cocoa).
Getting back to the original point, though, few modern mainstream applications use X11 per se. They use cross-platform, high-level toolkits: GTK, Qt, Swing, wxWidgets, XUL, VCL, etc. It's a lot smarter to integrate platform-specific code once at the toolkit level (again: like so) than to force hundreds or thousands of application developers to duplicate that work (even ignoring the cost to Apple).
The rest (menu bars, etc.) the Gnome and KDE developers would do if Apple's legal department only would let them.
Between this comment and your other, I have to conclude that your conception of "look and feel" is only skin deep and that you don't understand the difference between themers illegally redistributing pixmaps and developers building applications (or toolkits) on a platform. Apple hasn't acted against the Aqua ports of wxWidgets or Tk, promotes Qt/Mac for some scenarios, and maintains Java--all of which, especially the latter two, compete with Carbon and Cocoa far more than does X11.See, that's one of the problems with Apple's X11 server: it is so big, heavy, and inefficient.
In other words, it's XFree86, what was then de facto standard desktop implementation. Get back to me after X11R7 stabilizes. -
Re:Well... it's sort of a joke
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Qt/mac is GPLed
the mac version has been gpled on the os X platform I think in 2003. Go and see some cool project http://ranger.befunk.com/blog where they try to port KDE to OS X natively.
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I DO NOT AGREE! reasons:
I do not agree!
Qt apps can look quite nice on MacOSX, okay it OpenWriter will not look as native as Apple's own 'Pages'.
Pages:
http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
Native Mac apps often have different GUI layouting. An as you say...
> Mac people like polished apps ... Mac users like that.
OSX apps do not just use Aqua for the Widgets, they have a completely diferent approach to GUI design!
I think the Qt NWF http://people.redhat.com/dcbw/ooo-nwf.html
will be a good basis for a version of OOo that blends in with MasOSX, since:
- Qt uses more native Aqua routines in every new release
- if there is a MacOSX version of OOo using Qt-lib then it will be much easier to just ajust the GUI of OOo that it matches the OSX feel (i.e. get some nice big icon in that toolbar)
Conclusion:
Yes, I do have confidence in the Qt road to a MasOSX port of OOo, because it is a much better startingpoint than the current OOo version running on OSX:
http://www.openoffice.org/screenshots/images/swrit er_osx.png
Which is plain ugly (as you can see) and needs X11 AFAIK.
Just see how KOffice (using Qt) is doing in comparison:
http://ranger.befunk.com/screenshots/qt-mac-kword- 20040101.png
And this is only a proof-of-concept kind of quick-port. No addional GUI refactoring has been done! Since that is what every GUI apps that is ported to OSX needs!
Last screenshot to prove my last statements:
http://www.openoffice.org/screenshots/images/compa re_ms_osx.png
This is the current difference between OOoWriter-for-OSX an OSX' most used wordprocessor: MS Word. This prove 2 things IMHO:
- OSX users do massively use badly intergrated apps (i.e. MS Word)
- OOo cant get much worse...
_cies.
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KDE/Darwin project page here
Check out this page for progress.
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Re:Surprisingly, a patch is already out
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Re:The Brother Chaps stencils...
The site's slashdotted now, so I can't see how good of a job they did, but the one I did from the stencil is reading... a-duh-email.
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Re:Mac OS X native
It seems to be a bit stale (updated Jan '04) but we've got better luck wishing for this.
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Re:hmmm
Nothin' perfect, yet. NeoOffice and NeoOffice/J are two projects trying to Mac OS X-ize OpenOffice. NeoOffice/J is largely usable, but also very large (~500MB, memory usage typically runs above 100MB) and slow. It's also ugly as sin.
I haven't been following it much, but someone is also in the processing of using Qt's cross-compatibility to port KOffice to OS X. -
try KWord.
The native KDE stuff is still a beta thing but if you don't mind to leave some of its functions like import filters you might want to give it a try. Works fine for me. Have a look at its Wiki over at KDE on Darwin.
Also available are binaries. -
Re:Kinda unfair this contest...
Though RangerRick has done a lion share of the work (vastly more than probably the rest of us combined) there are a lot of other people involved in the project as well who have contributed a lot of time (Martin, IceFox,,ChArles etc..) albeit with less to show for it (with the exception of IceFox) I personally blame X11's virtual keyboard.....*damn you X11 virtual keyboard implementation*
But yes, things are coming along quite nicely in the KDE-Darwin land =)
Drop by and say hi! irc.kde.org channel=#kde-darwin or visit at KDE on Darwin HomePage
We are always looking for help! -
Kinda unfair this contest...Unfair because the winner seems to be obvious. Take a close look at what this Ranger Rick has done so far: Ricks Blog on Qt/Mac
That guy has almost completed porting KDE to Mac OS X. That is really cool stuff.He and his companios really deserve the G5 and iPods and whatever else is to win
:-) -
OS X Native
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OS X Native
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OS X Native
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KOffice for OS X still moving forward
And, don't forget that Ranger Rick is still working on porting KOffice to OS X. There are now binaries available and if you're going to download all the KDE-on-OSX packages, you may as well use the all-packages torrent.
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Re:Native, but not standardFrom the corresponding log entry:
Also, yes, I know it's a bit ugly, KDE styles are a bit messed up. When you run anything it always complains "KThemeStyle cache seems corrupt!"
When that happens, it falls back to a default theme, one which does not use the Appearance Manager. -
Re:Native, but not standard
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Re:KOffice would be great!
Well then check out the screenshots.
;) -
Re:Unicode?
Take a look at this...
There are a few more screenshots, just go to the parent directory.. I hope it doesn't kill his server. :) -
Not yet complete, but getting there
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Circular dependency
You mean this circular dependency? It's been fixed. Also note that they don't recommend doing selfupdate-cvs anymore. Instead, do selfupdate-rsync once to set the mode to rsync and then just do "fink selfupdate" from then on.
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Re:a native port of kde on osx
Depends on what you mean by "native". KDE is already working with X11 on OSX.
We're still working on making it build with Qt/Mac.
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Re:Anybody have a binary?
You'll need Qt/X, the KDE libraries and an X server for that.
You are misinformed. This makes it quite clear, I think, that X11 is not needed for running KDE applications - notably Konqueror. Yes, it's quite OK to make "ooooh" noises at the eye candy.
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It needs a lot of work...
But it fits into my code bounty.
:)I'm really hoping Advanced Tracker takes off, he's got a great design but nothing much yet, code-wise.
I've also been working off and on on getting CheeseTracker going on MacOSX, but it's got a lot of weird GTK issues. Reduz is working on porting it to Qt right now, though, so maybe it'll be a possibility in the future.
All I know is, there's crap for trackers on OSX (and Linux for that matter) now. Here's to finding something that works, dammit!
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Too funny!
I load up the article, and what do I see?
Screenshot
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Re:"As if KDE was already ported"?
Yeah, it's not 100% but we've got things mostly working. I've got screenshots (including KDE in rootless mode, very nice =) up at my web page.