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Konqueror Compiled For Mac OS X; KOffice Next
scishop writes "Benjamin Reed has just compiled Konqueror for Mac OS X after porting the KUniqueApplication class. A screenshot of the running program can be found here. According to Reed's blog, 'next up is KOffice.'"
that this port would have taken longer then, say, the port for my pda (zaurus 5500) or cygwin?
"Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
Konquerer Kompiled For OS X, KOffice Knext?
Can we get a KTHML compatible browser compiled for Windows? Konquerer or Safari, anything... make it easier to test web designs.
Where can I DL it. I want, I want.
I wonder if there's a platform on which you get more browser choice than Mac OS X....
'course, the number of Mac/OS X only browsers sortof makes it cheating...
Tweet, tweet.
Why bother? I seriously doubt anyone would go full-tilt KDE on an OS X box. Mozilla or Firebird are great browser choices.. Why bother to port Konqueror?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
But has anybody managed to get Linux running on it?
*ducks*
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Konquerer is my browser of choice on Linux, and it's cool that we've got another choice for browser. Yeah, I use Safari, but as this is one step to porting most of the KDE stuff, I can't help but wonder if this is a big step towards the holy grail of Linux-to-MacOSX conversions, OpenOffice.
-- Funksaw
..Is using the letter "K" in every program made for the KDE Environment overKill?
Sorry if this seems like a troll, but why is this an important achievement? I guess it's nice to have another browser on OSX and all, but it seems like a lot of effort for a small result.
iKant believe it!
You certainly told 'em, Anonymous Coward, man of the people...
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
When will Linux heads learn that distributing source code is a Good Idea, but only distributing source code and not binaries is a Bad Idea. It's good that I can fix the code if there's something wrong with it, but it's idiotic that I should be forced to use a program like fink to download sourcecode (which is bigger than binaries by definition) only to then waste time compiling it with the default options selected!
Why bother when Safari runs perfectly well?
Sorry if this isnt a web browser, i dont know what this is, but that screenshot looks very much like a web browser. And if it isnt, then just mark this as a |=1|257 |)057 message.
The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
"A screenshot of the running program can be found here."
...taken just before it crashed.
In that screenshot, X11 isn't running. Does this mean that Konqueror is running w/o X Windows?!
If so, holy crap!
It would be kickin' rad if they figure out a way to replace the mac os window manager (I do not think of os x as anything more than a window manager, imho) with KDE.
If K-Office has got proper Unicode support, then... it certainly is a good idea to switch away from MS some more...
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
I've really got to ask why on this one... I mean cross compatibility and all- great stuff, but WHY? X allready has a really good, open source, web browser in Safari, it can run a native port of Mozilla, and you can run BSD apps in the downloadable X server- so what possible reason can there be to completely port it- other then perhaps 'look I ported it'?
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
Great work! Until recently, the only decent browser on MacOSX has been Safari. I've tried mozilla (too slow), Internet Explorer (trivial joke) and Opera (too unstable). So I, for one, welcome this new browser into the Macintosh world.
But, take a good look at it, folks. MacOSX. Gotta admit it: it's pretty beatiful, huh?
Now why don't we try to mimic that interface into Linux instead of everything Windows has?
Finall, a capable browser for Samba networks for Macs! Finder crashes and just plain doesn't work for me browsing Windows networks from my Powerbook running Panther. Whereas typing smb:/// in Konqueror just works like Apple claims Finder does.
This guy is way out there
I mean of course I love to see Apple exploit insecure consumers trying to purchase cool.
But I'm not gonna go work for a megacorp for free.
I mean would you show up at GM corporate headquarters and say "Hi, is there any work I can do for free?"
As an example, I use gaim on FreeBSD because its tabbed interface is simply the best I've come across. I would love to use it instead of Trillian when I'm forced into using Windows. But the Windows port of gaim, which uses GTK+/Windows, works horribly. The GTK theme doesn't match my XP settings, widgets draw slowly and work clumsily (tooltips in particular seem to spontaneously appear and refuse to go away, even when the program is minimized!), and all in all it feels like a cheap Wal-Mart knockoff.
GTK+ widgets offer no benefits over standard Windows controls -- they draw slower, they don't match the environment, and Windows is just as themable as GTK is. Going back on-topic, this Qt/Mac port of Konqueror likewise eschews native widgets for the entirely out-of-place Qt look. All I can ask is Why? Wouldn't it be far easier for Qt/ and GTK/Windows or /Mac to simply wrap native widgets, rather than poorly ape them?
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
I'm sorry if I'm misinformed, but doesn't Safari use an edited version of the KHTML engine?
And since I'm pretty sure that's right, what is the point of this? I've used Konqueror before, and it's not a very good browser in any respect. It feels like some terrible OEM product.
This is not flamebait, what is the point?
- Sherman
I'd say that covering platforms is important, because when someone says, but do you suppot Blah, you can answer that yes, indeed, you do.
Keep in mind that short term tactics are great, but strategy is what frequently offers tactical brilliance a place to shine. If KDE is everywhere, people will start to use it. That's useful. for KDE. See? Think companies, down the road.
-j, who really can't stand such heavyweight stuff.
I forget what 8 was for.
Konqueror, okay. But we've got alternatives to that all over the place. The Linux app I really want to see on Mac OS X is Ximian Evolution. I've used Apple's alternative, but I really like the way Evolution ties into Exchange, and soon to be Novell Groupwise.
Is porting Gnome apps that much more difficult? Programming-challenged poster here...
I mean, I guess this is cool, and it's not my time being spent on this, but I really don't see the point. I've used Konqueror and I honestly think that while it's not bad, it pales in comparison to Mozilla, Netscape and Opera (plus Safari on OSX). Same with KOffice, it's alright, but Open Office is far more full-featured (and MSOffice if you like that type of thing...). I'm not a huge fan of KDE in general, but there are still plenty of good things about it. However, Konqueror and Koffice are, in my opinion, not its highlights.
The porting of Konqueror to OS X is great news for Mac users, as they now have access to the fast, standards compliant KHTML rendering engine. Many users and developers prefer KHTML to the Internet Explorer or Gecko engines. I was wondering though...does anyone know of a KHTML browser which is completely OS X native? I mean, with a brushed metal skin and full integration into Aqua? It could maybe have other stuff too, like Google search field built-in or something. That would be cool! Anyway, in the meantime I'll just have to continue with Konqueror on OS X.
Is Konqueror UniKode Kompatible?
I mean would you show up at GM corporate headquarters and say "Hi, is there any work I can do for free?"
Of course not, because they wouldn't use a typical mac user who would in all likelihood show up wearing a tutu and a ball gag, even for free - they'd just kick their ass. That type of behavior is only tolerated in Cupertino.
Only then, it's more like, "Hmmf, iff ffrrr anfy wffrk ff cffn dff fffr frrr?"
Hey, tough guy. What's "also-ran" mean to you?
And how brave are you to hide behind anonymity?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Why is this flamebait? Seriously. We've been told Linux has surpassed OS/X on the desktop, and Mozilla has clearly surpassed Konqueror. Both also-rans. News for nerds? Maybe. Stuff that matters? No freaking way.
Freakin' Mac-o-philes.
with such a penchant for annoying letteriffic names for everything.
(shakes head) you dont get it at all do you... why do people put out things freeware for OS's why do people do ANYTHING nice??? because some people do things because its there, and dont really care, nor see it being that big a deal to try to make money of it themselves
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
i'm confused between the differences of porting konquerer and khtml. i thought apple essentially ported konquerer by using khtml as safari's back end. here's a link:
apple: webcore
Damn, that's some nasty kerning on that screenshot. Safari doesn't have that problem, I wonder why Konqueror does if it's using the same rendering engine?
Exactly. I say that if one does not care for this recent development, why not ignore it and move along? Instead, ACs ocme out of the woodwork to start some crap for no other reason other than to annoy. Feh.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
You don't get it all do you?
OS X isn't some open source project. It's a closed system controlled by a ruthless megacorporation.
If you want to help the Free Software community there are a lot better things you could do than to help help Apple Corporation further exploit the Free Software community for superprofits. (Or if you must boy down and welcome your corporate overlords at least fucking get paid for it ya sucker.)
In the case of OS/X, "also-ran" means nobody uses it but marketing-susceptible technophobes and elitist, but mostly ignorant lower-echelon media types.
In the case of Konqueror, it means people who are unable to muster the brainpower to download firebird.
Deal with it, community-college boy.
How has Linux surpassed OS X on the desktop? What? There are more Linux home users than OS X users? When did THAT happen?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
I've made the transition from Mandrake on a Desktop to OSX on a Powerbook. Surprisingly, KDE has some apps that are very good and designed well enough to compliment an OSX environment.
Example 1: KMail! If you haven't ever tried this email client, try it NOW. It has some of the most killer email filtering speed I have ever seen in an email application. It nicely integrates with GnuPG. It has good keyboard shortcuts. It's set up not to download images from emails. It stores emails with maildir by default. It's pretty. Did I mention that it's fast? Up until 10.3's much improved mail.app, I would have killed to have KMail running naitively on OS X.
Ex 2: KOffice. I've never used it, but it's absolutely essential that OS X has a free naitive-running office package. Unless the OO.org aqua port gets back up, this package will likely be KOffice.
Ex 3: Konqueror is a very good file manager. While the OS X file manager is very good, there are a couple of areas that it misses. For example, I can use konqueror to select all items matching the file pattern '*foo*.bar'. In OS X, I have to drop to a terminal, and loose the trash can functionality, or switch views and sort by type, which takes longer. As another poster said, SMB apparently works better in konqueror than Finder (thanks, I'll have to try that!). If konqueror can run, then so can any other KDE app, especially when you consider that Konqueror is the most (featureful | bloated) app in KDE.
So that's why people bother. Props to them!
... if BillyG can do it so can we.
Why not?
Ooh... tough words from the anonymous!
OS X has more home users than Linux. Why do you care either way?
Why does this item bother/concern you? Are you that small, that you cannot leave this story, which some folks find interesting, alone? Most likely you are.
So, you deal with it, Anonmymous Coward.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
For the same reason that Apple paid people to make contributions to the KHTML project.
Apple is a US-based corporation. The US has a capitalist-based economy. Aside from the fact that Apple makes good products, what is so wrong with buying anything from a money-making entity as long as you are willing to pay the price for what they sell?
If you aren't willing to pay the price, then it's not your place to complain.
As for the guy writing software for Mac OS X, it's also not your place to decide what other people should do with their time.
Moof.
Superprofits? Bwahahahahaha!
They barely squeak by - and they almost always lose money on the computer business - it's been their investments (such as ARM) that have made their profits. Well, when they make a profit.
Before you knee jerk whip out a -1, check the financials. It's true: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL&annual
No, kiddo; YOU don't get it.
Most computer users are just that: users. Not programmers. Some (actually, most) folks want stuff that works well. And some other folks are nice enough to submit their time and effort to give those users something.
And once in a while, it's free. And how does a port of Konqueror help Apple? Doesn't it help their customers instead? Why is this an issue with you?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
I also figured out how to get my favotite Linux game, Enemy Territory, to run on the Mac despite the fact that a Mac version does not exist, screengrabs here and here.
Of course this was cheating since it was over X11. Konq runs acceptably, but got 1-2 fps on ET.
Konqueror also supports archiving web pages as .war files (I do not know if this is an exclusive Konqueror feature or not, and I don't care - it is extremely useful).
I don't know what .war is, but a few browsers support saving entire web pages, including graphics and style sheets, in the MIME-based MHTML format (RFC 2557).
It doesn't really concern me. I just get sick of Apple groupies. If you aren't a stockholder (I actually am), get a life. Happy New Year.
So, why exactly do you care? You don't like Apple; we got it. Some of us do.
Okay. Now explain why you care about this story at all.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Since you're apparently a Linux fan, I'd expect you to agree that a relatively small market share doesn't necessarily mean something is "also-ran." The fact that more people use Mozilla doesn't make Konqueror bad, and so on. I prefer Firebird myself, but that doesn't mean KHTML-based browsers are worthless.
Hey now ... some of us happily hetero people with fashion sense and a taste for interior decorating (as well as our significant others of the opposite sex) use OS X *AND* OpenBSD.
... your onsite maintenance costs are just sooo... HUGE! Ohhhhhh McNealy! I love it when you stick me with your big overpriced hardware!"
Don't generalize/make assumptions.
As for your love of Solaris, I'd have to say that you enjoy being held over a barrel by Sun and repeatedly violated, all the while screaming "Yes Scott! Yes! Harder Scott! Faster! Ohhhhh, Scottttttt
But then, I would be generalizing.
Wait -- people who like the products a company puts out are "groupies"? How's THAT work?
And Apple (in case no one told you) didn't put out the port of Konqueror. A private citizen did. So what's the problem?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Who said anything about caring or liking/disliking Apple? It's just fun to crush little mac zealot dreams of them ever mattering. :)
Now run off and buy another overpriced Apple product, they need the money. No, really, they do.
So you're admitting you're a child? Maybe I don't understand how people like me somehow don't have a life, but people who specifically try to start fights somehow do...
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
No real problem. Just wondering why this is news. I'll spell it out really slowly.
1. Konqueror is a mediocre web browser with limited following. Many use it, few actually prefer it.
2. OS X is a bit-player on the desktop. Depending on who's counting, it is a second-place or third-place finisher.
Frankly, I just don't think it matters much.
stupid?
I see all the "Why bother" posts and have seen only one short paragraph with the obvious answer: KOffice.
The majority of OSX users may not need Konqueror, even though it seems to support many features only available on OSX through payable alternatives (GUI SSH and SFTP support with RBrowser for example), but it is a first step to getting KOffice ported natively to the Mac which could finally help OSX users drop MS software in a large number of cases.
KOffice is not where OpenOffice is but a native Mac port could spur development so that it becomes a first rate alternative to MS' Office X suite, and given that there is no guarantee that MS will ever make a Mac version compatible with it's new so called security features, this is an excellent idea.
Linux will eventually overtake and eclipse Apple's offerings, unless Apple embraces Linux. That is a good thing.
And I never said it was worthless. Just not very important.
Sorry to interrupt your rather interesting catfight - but
OS X has more home users than Linux
Good way to pull statistics out of your ass...
If you don't like it, fuck off.
1. The browser is not the point. The port is the point.
2. How do you define "bit player"? If millions of people use it, how is that "bit"?
And what does market share have to do with quality?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
It's because you're one of those "mac types".
I wasn't diminishing this guys achievement, I know that running ET over SSH is no more impressive, in theory, than runnning "top" over ssh. In fact, I am going to download it as soon as I get back in front of my mac.
Konq isn't a web browser, or a file manager...it just happens to have KIOslaves that do these things (like KHTML for web browsing). There are other kio slaves I personally use in KDE 3.2 like smb:// fish:// audiocd:// and a few more...how many of them work? They are what makes konq powerful and useful and desired.
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
"Linux will eventually overtake and eclipse Apple's offerings"
According to what information exactly?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Konq is just a clever ruse. Once everyone is using it, Emacs will pop out and open the ports in the firewalls.
Then microsoft's vision of one network, one OS will finally be achieved. (Although, perhaps not in a manner wholly to their liking.)
I was wrong! I am a victim of evil M$ propaganda. Sorry!
Because OSX is at a level of refinement and maturity that linux is years from reaching.
OSX, right now, is my choice for a workstation os, and I would give up tons of my personal time to help it become something even better.
Megacorp or not, I personally think it's a cause that will more directly benefit me.
Pretty Pictures!
1. A pointless point.
2. Single-digit market share. Duh.
Who said anything about quality? Feeling insecure?
So what? I've used the other major OSs extensively and, quite frankly, they're more hassle than they're worth FOR ME. I finally found an OS I like.
Why do you care? Have you nothing else to entertain you? Don't you own a TV or did your mom put you on restriction?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Are there any good QT-based IM clients that could be ported? In my experience, none of the current OS X offerings are completely functional within themselves.
This is the first step to the full Konqueror intergration - think smb:/, sftp:/, camera:/ - if you still don't understand, start using Konqueror, while you still have a chance to be ahead of the curve.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/
1. Why is the achievement of a port pointless? And why are you spending your time worrying about what people think about this?
2. So what? Is Windows the only OS that "counts", then? How dull you must be to think so.
As far as quality, that's part of the pro-Mac argument. And why would you act so insecure as to worry what complete strangers are doing with their free tim ewith two operating systems you obviously don't care about?
Jesus, you a simple, simple tool.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
"But then, I would be generalizing."
;-)
And that would be rude.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Sure, nobody's going to use Konqueror on X. Never mind Mozilla, the default OS X browser is based on Konqueror code! And I don't think KOffice will ever catch on, even among most KDE users.
It's just an interesting hack. That's what hackers do. A few months ago we had a story on a guy who built a CPU out of discrete components. Why bother, when you can buy a CPU that's 100 times as powerful for a few bucks? Because it's interesting, and challenging, and you learn stuff. The fact that nobody will use it is neither here nor there.
Apple is a US-based corporation. The US has a capitalist-based economy. Aside from the fact that Apple makes good products, what is so wrong with buying anything from a money-making entity as long as you are willing to pay the price for what they sell?
Repeat that but use Microsoft instead. As much as it must irk people here, the majority of windows users are happy with their OS for the games, web, and mail that they do, so your statement should apply for both companies.
I have no problem with OS' and have used all of them: I prefer Linux because it allows me to do more hands on stuff and really fix a machine to suit my needs.
That said, apple makes both hardware and software and has always had a shittier attitude towards the people that like to tinker or even those that want to learn, so Ive learned to differentiate between the product and the corporate mentality.
You can like one and not the other.
You are just the opposite of the people you chastise. Apple does no wrong in your book.
Apple makes nice products which the mainstream user will not buy because they cant justify the price difference for their use. I think most people that are slamming Apple have a hard time supporting open source initiatives AND a company who is even more protective than Microsoft.
Just like many people have problems cheering on IBM in its battle with Darl.
brian g.
I've read most of your posts today and there hasnt been one remark that hasnt been bitchy.
Lay off the caffeine or get laid finally but your atittude is starting to wear thin.
What's next? Challenge someone to a fight?
Seriously dude, get a life.
Pierre Vatefaire-Foutre
Heh, Ya my friend warned me that you mac types get like this.
If more than one mouse button is too confusing for ya just keep using whatever you can handle fella, it's ok, some people have special needs.
Yikes, freaky mac fuckers.
First, how much catching up Mac OS X still has to do in some respects to Linux. For example, one article in the German magazine "MacWelt" talks about defragmenting the harddisk (!) with Panther. There are all kinds of small things like multiple desktops that I can't seem to find (some of which are of course going to be due to my lack of experience). Of course, in some areas like multimedia Panther simply shreds Linux. When is there going to be a KDE version of iMovie, an Mac fan might ask with some justification.
Second, it is depressing to see how obsessed with money the Mac people still are. This is almost as bad as the Windows crowd. Going through the magazines, program after program is shareware, US$ 30 here, US$ 60 there. The sad part is that these programs are usually small, ridiculously simple tools that Linux includes for free. One good thing about getting KDE to run on the Quartz graphic engine is that it might give the average Apple user a clue to how bad greed is for software development.
Third, the lack of choice. You get one way of doing things with Apple -- a good, well designed, clever, well thought out, ergonomic way, for sure, but that is it. You have to get over feelings like "but where are the other browsers?" or "where are all the other desktops?" at the beginning if you have been using Linux for any period of time. Yeah, you know you're getting what you're getting into, but actually sitting there with one program of a certain time is still a shock.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm going to spend serious money for that iBook. Apple is on the right track here: Printing with CUPS, X11 now included, and bash as the default terminal, so I can go back to blackbox when I'm tried of all the bells and whistles. But when you get past the cool design and ignore the far, far superior multimedia tools, Tux can hold its beak high and proud. Apple is going to have to peddle really hard if they want to continue to want money for their OS.
I suppose if your problem is that your wallet is too heavy then using Apple products could be benificial.
Note to self: Never post in the early morning before brushing teeth. Apple might be in bloom with OS X, but they still will have not have to "peddle" hard. Argh.
Indeed, and we wouldn't want that, now would we? :)
There are some apps that have less in the way of choice on the Mac, but with Fink and the now built-in X11, there's much more choice than say OS9.
:D
:D
In regards to browsers, there's Mozilla, Firebird, OmniWeb, iCab, Opera, Safari, Konqueror, and Camino. (My favorite being Camino...)
Mail apps? Plenty. Editors? Plenty. I have 6 right now, not including TextEdit (only two cost money.)
I'm glad to hear you're moving to the Mac. I did it a couple of years ago, and my Linux box has become a server....I won't go back to Desktop Linux for the foreseeable future.
Fear not, though....there's plenty of choice. (With the exception of Window Managers..but you can run your favorite X WM fullscreen if you wish)...
I don't think Apple will have to peddle very hard to charge for their OS, though. It's indeed superior in many ways to what's available for free, and it also encompasses choice, something that was Linux's sole domain before OSX. I like linux too, but my OS of choice is worth every penny. Forget Windows...
OSX just works....I can spend hours twiddling with it, or I can set up and go with no troubles at all. That's the beauty of OSX.
---
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
According to Apple's web site, "for its Web page rendering engine, Safari draws on KHTML and KJS software from the KDE open source project".
you had me at #!
I use and love OS X, but have you checked out Sun's Looking Glass?
Looks mighty promising.
OK, back to the trolling in progress.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Yup, a native port to OSX acheives one half of this.. in terms of removing all X11 dependencies from KDE. The other half is of course, to to finish Qt/Win32-Free (port of a GPL'd Qt/FreeX11 to Win32), which is about 80% there.. See here for some screenshots
Qt/Win32-Free would eventually allow a KDE not hampered by X11 or Cygwin dependencies on Windows.
"- it was designed from the ground up and is conceptually sound, unlike mozilla which was a hack job on top of netscape's browser"
Nope. They dropped the old code and started from scratch a long, looong time ago.
"- unlike other browsers (mozilla, IE), it was designed using 'mature' technology (HTML4, CSS, etc.) and does not have nearly as many compatibility woes as IE, nor as many add-on hacks, as the other browsers had, due to changing stnadards over the years (in other words: it's a newer, fresher code base)"
Nope. Konq doesn't pass basic CSS tests that I have written. Mozilla does.
"- unlike mozilla/firebird, I can use it for hours/days with many pages open (15+) without the entire affair slowing to a crawl and/or dying"
Nope in my case. I'm not sure your problem, but I have no problem with my 2-3 windows with about 7-15 tabs each, open for the entirety my computer is on. The average between reboots on my workstation is a month. I'll close Mozilla to update to a more recent nightly, but that's about it. My hardware isn't insane either --- XP 1700+ w/ 768mb RAM.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
> You sound like a troll (nobody mentioned anything about a full-tilt KDE port on OS X, fool)
You call him a troll, yet you're name-calling?
> it has more/better features than mozilla (fish://, file://, ftp:// smtp://, etc. etc.)
Hold on, many people here habitually abuse MS for making the "browser the OS" and certainly can spot feature-creep a mile away, but when it comes to KDE's browser its suddenly okay? I like having a whole seperate browser for web and use Nautilus for file browsing. Keeping WAN and Local/LAN seperate is a big plus in mine, and many other's books.
>unlike other browsers (mozilla, IE), it was designed using 'mature' technology
How isn't Moz 'mature?'
>unlike mozilla which was a hack job on top of netscape's browser
This is just untrue. The Moz team gutten NS to the point where they were writing just about everything from scratch.
>unlike mozilla/firebird, I can use it for hours/days with many pages open (15+)
I can do this easily with Moz/Firebird on both Win and Linux. I average 20 tabs and half of them are auto-refreshing every few minutes and this is far from a top of the line machine.
Or just the web browser. Konq is an excellent file manager, and would be a great benefit for when you need to do alot of file management on OSX. Finder imho isn't quite as intuitive or quick to work with.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
According to all accounts - you got suckered!
Macintosh as a platform would have died a long time ago if it wasn't for those greedy shareware developers you have such disdain for. Some of the best pieces of software available for the Mac have been shareware applications. Most of these applications don't force you to buy them in order to get full functionality. Some people want too much money for ridiculously simple applications but you're under no obligation to purchase or use them.
Besides Mac-only shareware there's literally thousands of OS programs available through Fink, GNU-Darwin, and Darwin Ports. If one of these free as in speech apps works better or as well as a shareware one use it instead of the shareware, vote with your wallet.
There's also plenty of choice in your Mac specific applications. There's several browsers, mail clients, IM programs, media players, editors, and whatever else you want. Not all of them are free or open source but your options are definitely not limited to commercial products.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I personally can't repeat the same thing with Microsoft because "the fact that [Microsoft] makes good products" doesn't sit well with me.
Furthermore, you have strayed from the topic at hand. I don't know why you just told me your OS preference; I certainly don't care. The point of my post was not to put Apple upon the pedestal as the perfect example of how a company should be run, though you seem to think I said something like that. Apple does no wrong in my book? That's putting a lot of words in my mouth which have never been there.
So, since you seem to have become lost, let's reiterate the point:
Apple has the right to make and sell their products to whoever is willing to pay for them. You also have the right to bash Apple because they don't do everything you want as a company. And then I have the right to explain to you why they do the things they do and proceed to read your nonsensical replies.
What else is a free country for?
Moof.
It's early, and I'm going to bed. This post will be semi-disorganized and probably a bit flaming. Sorry, I'm tired. However...
1) Files fragment. It happens in any file system. If your file system is well designed, it undoes this as possible. Panther does this. As a result, no appreciable fragmentation should occur (others can fill in the technical details). So what that article was trying to tell you is the file system is automatically defragmented every time an open() call is made.
2) Yes, there's lots of shareware. And a lot of commercial software. And a whole lot of freeware (check www.macupdate.com). Guess what - Linux has only the freeware category in any significant sense. And OS X can run that exact same free software via X11 in the vast majority of cases, just as you do on Linux today. Not to mention that the vast majority of shareware is $20 or less - only a couple things like GraphicConverter cost more. (Horrors, some people spend years of their life and just *don't* want to give it all away for free. They do exist.) Not to mention that Apple bundles a truckload of free software (as in beer, folks) that quite frankly kicks the butt of any open source software I've seen (I'm thinking iTunes/iPhoto/iMovie/iDVD at the moment, not Mail/Address Book). And if you want any of the other stuff, it's readily installable by fink or by compiling it yourself. I already installed my own customized wget and other things.
3) Lack of choice is deliberate. Yes, occasionally it's annoying, no doubt about it. However, I believe the excesisve choice is a major criticism of Linux (and the associated division of labor and lack of focus/coherence). As many have pointed out, why does KDE include several duplicate programs for each basic function, rather than provide a good default up front. You want choice, you can get it very easily on your own (whether by tweak, compile, or download). There are a lot of simple users out there that really, honestly, don't want choice. They want what's included to work and do what they want to do. Apple does that in spades.
I'm going to bed. grump grump grump...
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Something tells me you don't actually have any friends, hence the weird obsession with other peoples' computers.
What an odd piece of work you are. It's late, though. and your mom will be pissed if she finds out you're using her Packard Bell on AOL this late at night. Tsk tsk... Off to bed, baby boy.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Hey the GUI is totally look like baghira with Aqua Msk window decoration & graphite icons sets.
So I think baghira is cool o the KDE is
I'm looking forward to using Konqueror on OS X, if only because the file transfer and browsing options sound interesting. Using the Finder for FTP seems to be unaccountably slow and prone to random disconnects. Anyway, the thing that really interested me in this story was the screenshot - looking at someone else's desktop gives me the prurient thrills that I imagine some people get out of Hello! magazine. Does anyone know what that little menu bar weather indicator is? I've seen similar desktop things, but they're not really worth it on a 12" screen. Ta.
The whole point of this thread was not is it ok for apple to rip off the victims of slick marketing that buy their overpriced shit. That's fine.
The point was why the fuck would you work for a corporation for free. If you want konqeuror to work on make pay me soe fucking cash or piss off corporate pigs.
It's been 2 years since that KDE screenshot was taken, and the Konq I have on my KDE desktop (v3.1.4) renders the same -- incorrectly!
Having bugs fixed in beta versions is no excuse to not have the fix in the stable version. Far too often in OSS do programmers think it's ok to only maintain an unstable tree. Most people (especially the end users we want not using other software) won't run unstable software.
My stable Mozilla has rendered it correctly for years now. Konq's CSS is only surprisingly good if your nearest competitor is a bugfest like WinIE or Lynx.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Yes, I care about Apple Corporation making superprofits off the work of the Free Software community and I use AOL. Yup.
Man you ain't to swift are ya? Any one who has to overpay that much so they click a big one button mouse on some pertah pictures obviously has a learning disability. Oh well it's understandible if you get confused, you have to use mac, obviously you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.
The right-margin offset is misrendered, the font padding on the box is miscalulated (also a bug in Mozilla), and the tooltip for the mouse-over links is bugged (it has a very strange wrap column).
/. ;)
This is a lot better than the old KDE (which totally broke on the header box, among other problems), but it still needs fixing. Naturally, the only way to get fixes in is to either do it myself or get people to notice the bugs on
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
My v3.1.4 correctly doesn't let the floatbox overlap the right-hand side border, but yours miscalculates (probably related to the on-going margin bug in Konq that's still there 2 years after I noticed it) and has overlap that shouldn't be there.
:-/
A disapointing regression
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Just keep feeding that troll you dumb noob.
"Most computer are just that: users."
It takes an apple lover to say such bullshit.
Mod this troll down. NOW!
No, you stupid fuck. Linux is the only true free OS that counts. No one cares for a $2000 OS from a evil company like Apple.
BTW. Is your real name "grubi", or do you also have a first and last name that don't look anything like "grubi"? I thought so. Look who's anonymous now.
I've found Sharity to be quite useful. It's "free" for single-server home use too....
Wonder if KDE via X on windows will be any snappier than it is under linux. I'll have to give it a shot.
Blar.
Except that its OT and seriously ugly. Ill wait for freedesktop.org Xserver instead.
Was it really needed by the OSX users? like, I still find nautilus & konqueror far less useful then Windows Explorer. Instead of porting it to propietry platforms I'd put more effort on solving urgent issues. What a young (feature and usability wise) project really needs is alot of feedback and reports fom users and for that, I think the linux community is enough for now.
Yes it was. I'm trying to take this one step at a time for you. But I think you're ready. My other point was (as you should have read in my original reply) that what this person does with his time is not anyone else's business.
And again, you have the right to mock him. And I have the right to mock you for wasting your time mocking him. I can also mock myself for wasting my time to mock you for mocking him.
And around and around we go.
Moof.
Every fool knows this Mac boy.
It's a simpel equation. Something which you can't.
No, that would be lame.
I think the big question here is: what crawled up your ass and died? I haven't been persecuted like this since junior high.
-Benjamin Meyer
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
OK, people. Is Apple a megacorporation or just a bit player? I keep seeing/hearing/reading both.
Karma Schmarma
First, how much catching up Mac OS X still has to do in some respects to Linux.
Agreed. But sometimes it's about knowing where to look--naturally, the favorite haunts of the Mac community aren't well known outside of the community itself. Versiontracker is the sourceforge of the Mac community--but much of it is indeed shareware, not freeware. Mac OS X Hints serves up nice digestible bits of HOWTO for us; especially appreciated is when a Unix LongBeard chimes in with his experience.
For example, one article in the German magazine "MacWelt" talks about defragmenting the harddisk (!) with Panther.
I don't know what they were talking about specifically, but defragging isn't necessary under Panther--apps self-optimize at launch ("Hot-File-Adaptive-Clustering"?). More from Apple on the topic of defragging in 10.2-.3. I don't know how that compares to Linux.
multiple desktops
It would be nice to see good multiple desktop support in OS X; the community feeling is that Apple doesn't implement it out of fear of confusing the grannies. However, Versiontracker lists a number of Virtual Desktop managers; folks like CodeTek's (if you're paying) and I've used DesktopManager and liked it (for free). Not quite as robust as the options under Linux, but closer.
As for your other points: yeah, lots of shareware and not freeware. That's changing, some, as more and more Linux folks try OS X and re-implement what they liked in Linux on OS X; there's a fair few free projects for OS X (Fink is a good example). And yeah, the One Apple Way: that's rather the point. Jobs, right or wrong, thinks that the ability to chose breeds confusion in the consumer and is more difficult to support; look up the history of theming in OS 9 if you're interested. I don't know if I agree, personally--I think The One Way has it's points, but I think that alienated developers and tinkerers in the process, and I don't know which is better on balance.
Finally, But when you get past the cool design and ignore the far, far superior multimedia tools, Tux can hold its beak high and proud. Apple is going to have to peddle really hard if they want to continue to want money for their OS: Apple doesn't, really, want to charge for the OS. They want to sell hardware, and the OS is a loss leader for that. How many stand-alone boxes of the OS do you think that they sell? Here's a clue: besides a EULA, each install has no DRM, not a serial number, nothing. They ask you to please not install a single copy on more than one machine, but take no action to prevent it. And don't forget about the Open Source Darwin; this gives smarter minds than mine the opportunity to bring what they love about Linux to OS X.
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$tar -xvf
So when will apple port something to Linux? The iapps will be a good start. :rollseye:
I agree. I had given up on the concept of shareware before moving to the Mac. On Windows, the free-as-in-beer software is either adware, or Free software. On the Mac, there is still a strong shareware community.
I've purchased Voodoopad, Netnewswire, and Launchbar, among other things.
I still love Free software, but the quality of the little, useful apps is much higher in the greedy Mac world than in the idealistic Linux world.
Isn't safari just a spinoff of konqueror anyway???
Eat at Joe's.
Huh. I'm smart, technical, rich, and I'm 34 and have a 38" vertical leap. I'm married to a great woman, and we live very comfortably. What's it like going around so jealous, bitter, and envious all the time? I mean, I see people like you, and I find them to be equal parts funny and sad. Perhaps you can expound for us your slightly confused mental state and we can help you become better-adjusted? I mean, we care about you. Really.
Is there a port of Konqueror or some other KHTML variant available for Windows 2K/XP?
i'm curious as to what system you're using where files never fragment?
As people have already pointed out, there are a few multiple desktop options availible for OS X, as well as Expose, which helps aliviate the need for multiple desktops.
Sure there are plenty of shareware apps that are overcharged for, but there are also many that are well worth the money, and just as many that are free, or non-enforced shareware. Try www.tucows.com and www.versiontracker.com for OS X apps of all types. Not to mention with X11 and fink, just about all of your free linux apps will run in OS X too.
As for the lack of choice, I seriously suggest you check some of the software sites before you say that again. There are lot's of choices, it just so happens many users like Apple's choices best.
Finaly, Apple isn't much in the business of profiting off the OS. The OS sells the hardware, which is where they really get their money.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Wow, as soon as the battery is charged on my TiBook, I'm going to talk to ben/rangerrick and get this running just for the hell of it.
congrats to rangerrick and i hope that KOffice isn't too hard
~Ian
e to the pi i plus one equals zero
Can we please stop it with the "OS X *just works*" posts? And the "beauty of OS X" posts too? I think we all get the point already. geez! I'd rather stick to an OS that I don't want to f**k.
-exasperated rationalizing Linux geek stuck on an x86 box
How many computer users are there in the world?
How many of them could write a simple hello world application in c on their own?
Unless the answer is greater than 50%, the statement is true.
I kthink kyou kmeant:
;)
Kwatch kout kthere. Khave kyou knot kheard ke knews? KSCO kjust kiscovered kthat kthey kown Ke Ksimpsons. Kthey khave kalready kanged ktheir kname kto KSKO kand kare kemanding ka $200k kpayment kfor kevery "Komedy K".
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Which Linux is the one true linux that counts? And for someone that doesn't care about a $130 OS from a company like Apple (hint: Linux companies make money too), you sure spend a lot of time trolling this post. Feeling inadequate are we?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
As for me, GNU/iKant believe it.;)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
I'm not sure when the bug became added. 2003122707 has it as well. Might be time for another visit to Bugzilla :)
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
The right-hand text should all be indented left the same amount as the em width of the floating menu box. This is because (if the page is longer or you resize) the float menu is pinned, and will always remain in the same spot relative to the rest of the page. Most browsers get that wrong, too ;)
I must say, the text looks pretty decent with the fonts Safari uses.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Probably get marked as a troll, but... Somebody ports an application to Mac OS and it warrants a thread on slashdot? Porting a suite of applications warrants a thread. Must be a slow news day.
Dr. Rick
- "It's such a fine line between clever and stupid" (Nigel Tufnel)
- Zort! (Pinky)
Only by having websites which look broken in IE will people change from IE. The same way people only changed away from Netscape 4 because in broke on a whole buttload of websites.
;)
Personally, I don't give a shit about IE. I use Mozilla, my friends use Safari or Opera or Firebird or Mozilla. There are lots of alternatives, and most of them are better than IE. Plus, none of them have known security problems of the severity of IE!
I think that writing kick-ass websites using standards compliant markup and CSS is a much better way of encouraging people to be browser agnostic than you think. Banks want stuff that works on all their customers' PCs -- using well established standards (CSS1 is from 1997, for crying out loud!) is that solution.
You're welcome to your opinion (hey, this is why my CSS doesn't force on/off link text or underlines, I want the end-user to decide!), but I'm going to stick with mine
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I leave the option of underlines/outlines to the user agent. Personally, I have playing the game of magic-mouse-cursor where I have to sweep the entire page with my mouse to find out what's clickable and what's not. Mozilla's user CSS rocks in this regard (Konq works great for it, too) in that I can force it on. This breaks a bunch of silly pixel-perfect layouts, though ;) But I don't have to spend 5 minutes figuring out what's a link and what's not on each page.
:p
I really hate that. Underlined links were created for good reason
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Apple does give back to the OSS community. They contribute to the GNU project (gcc), to KDE (KHTML upgrades for WebKit have been ported back) and they even provide kernel-level things (the HFS+ filesystem driver for FreeBSD comes from Darwin). Why should they give anything to Linux? Linux is just a kernel, and has contributed nothing to Apple...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Second, it is depressing to see how obsessed with money the Mac people still are.
Yeah, tell me about it. But when the landlord shows up asking for my rent, telling him "it is depressing to see how obsessed with money you are" simply doesn't work.
Though I'm pleased with the Konqueror port (for the geek value, if nothing else), I'm particularly excited about the intentions to port KOffice as well. I have a 15" PowerBook and I was dismayed to discover that there just isn't much in the way of free office suites for OS X :-/.
Sure, there's OpenOffice.org for OS X, but it feels more like a halway-port since it requires X11 and it's stuck with Unix widgets. Really, I like OpenOffice.org as much as the next guy -- I run it exclusively on my Windows box -- but it just feels halfway-finished on the Mac (and a native OS X port is only coming in 2006 or so).
So, after setting aside OpenOffice.org, I looked to other options.. and it appears that MS Office is just about the only other choice. And that's about $200 (and, no, I'm not going to cheat and buy the academic or government editions). So, a native port of KOffice to OS X would be a real breakthrough.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Opera has better CSS support than Mozilla.
Until I can get screenshots showing that it respects all styles, has proper magining, and has a proper respect for the pinned menu. Safari is broken the same way Konq is, so I expect Safari to be broken the same way as well.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I forgot about cookie and image filters. Thanks for the reminder. I agree, they are some of the most advanced/flexible I've seen.
I'd be happy with complete and solid CSS1 from any browser. I think Mozilla and Opera are very very close here. CSS2 would be icing.
Are you on OS X? My experience with iCab has all been under 8.1, and it's always been a little crashy for me. Maybe it's better with X?
Constitutionally Correct
No point repeating myself why.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
No point repeating myself why
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
1. Not a stupid fuck. Tooo bad for you.
2. Linux is hte only OS that counts? By whose standard exactly?
3. OS X costs $129, unless you get a discount, like I did. Panther cost me $39. XP still costs over $200.
4. My real last name is, if you'd bother to check my profile, is Gruber. So yes, grubi is a legitimate nickname. Seeing as my name is plastered all over my profile and my websites, I'd hardly say I'm "anonymous". Feh.
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
Burden of prrof: you state something, you'd better be prepared to back it up.
"Everybody knows" is not an argument; it's bullshit.
And if the equation is "simpel," maybe you'd be able to reveal this magic equation?
Actually, information would like a turkey sandwich.
If iCab is crap you must be ignorant.
Get a grip on Mac history and the important part that iCab plays in the Mac browser world.
Thousands of people still use iCab as their default browser. For many, iCab is virtually the only browser they CAN use seeing as many of the alternatives require OS X.
One person supporting a complex app on Mac 68K, Classic OS PPC and several versions of OS X while preparing a major upgrade to the app deserves nothing but praise.
Have you ever wondered just how many of the 'modern' things we take for granted today actually appeared FIRST in iCab? Have you ever wondered how many features of iCab are still missing from modern browsers?
iCab suffers in two important areas. CSS and speed. But that needs to be put into perspective. First off, iCab is pretty damn fast on old Macs. Second it is not slow on new Macs, just not as fast as some of the competitors.
Both issues will be dealt with to a large degree in version 3.0. Currently, iCab stands at 2.9.7. How long do you estimate the wait will be for version 3.0?
For people that seek information on the web, iCab is a handy tool. Yes, due to CSS problems, the layout of some pages will not be correct, but 99% of the time, the information is readily obtained. Often that is all the user really needs.
Needless to say iCab is my default browser, and I'm on OS X.
It is most definitely NOT crap!
nt. -
Offtopic?
1) The Mods are retarded
2) Micheal is out to get me
Ok guys my Commadore 64's waiting! (or would that be Kommadore 64?) It ought to ported any time now...
You don't know what you are talking about, newbie. The creator of CSS, Wium Lie, works for Opera Software.
Also, there are a lot of practical issues with X under Cygwin. It's flaky, and your X desktop runs in its own window. Windows users aren't going to be running a lot of X apps until support for X becomes more reliable and more integrated.