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"...the majority of folks were into heavy metal..."

But heavy metal wasn't invented until the early '70, pioneered by groups such as Black Sabbath, gaining more acceptance in the mid-to-late-70s with bands like Judas Priest, AC/DC and KISS, eventually being brought to the mainstream by Metallica and Megadeth, and finally sold out, combined with the failed Punk movement, and/or integrating elements of Rap and Alternative music into the bands we know & hate today: Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Korn and Godsmack.

Um, I'm not sure which "some nobody" you're talking about. Steve Albini was the chief engineer for Nirvana's "In Utero" album released in 1993 (Kurt Cobain married Ms. Love in 1992-- so she's had opportunity to meet Albini and even absorb this idea from him) and has had several other successful projects of his own (the band Big Black to name one, plus many many jobs in a behind the scenes capacity)-- in fact, without the hard work put in by Albini and other truly independent artists, people like Courtney Love would have found a much smaller audience for their own work, and they would have lacked much of the foundation on which to build.

Similarly, Negativland has released many more studio productions that Love has. They have been involved in several court cases directly related to musician ownership of music and copyright infringement. I'm also given to understand that the principles were also primaries in a fairly long-running radio show. Finally, unlike the Salon article, the Negativland site has an in-depth discussion of more than just music industry finance. If you haven't read it, I strongly encourage you to look it over. Not only that they have some free mp3's! http://www.negativland.com/audiogadgets.html

If you accept Courtney Love's position because she is a "real artist" and not a "nobody" then you must also accept Metallica's position, because they are far less "nobody" than she. Ditto Dr. Dre-- a huge influence in the rap and hip-hop world.

Imagine how much more fun it will be getting a root canal, when you're reminded of the appointment by Steve Martin singing the Dentist song from Little Shop Of Horrors.

"You'll be a dentist -- you've got a talent for causing pain!"

• Tetris
• Korobeiniki
• Korobeyniki
• Korobushka

• Bond - Korobushka (and the rest of the CD Bond - Born, which isn't all Tetris related but still beautiful)
• Dr Spin - Tetris
• tetris boonch
• The Wookies - Tetris (and) Limpopo - Korobeyniki (drunk russians singing the song)
• Tetris OC (several overclocked.org remixes)

Or just go to Russia2000 and get 'Korobeyniki' (which incidentally mixes perfectly from "Barbie Girl" by Aqua).

On a positive note, I have actually clicked on relevant banners (not that most sites have them) and more importantly, I have clicked on text links to advertisers. Without relevant (to the website) ads, I never would have found Small Dog Electronics, RamJet, and even CD Now. All of which I have plunked down a large chunk of change at, as well as some other sites. Problem most websites have is that they don't use targeted ads, or they just have a banner that is for a site, instead of like MacInTouch and MacNN that have text links announcing deals for those web sites surfers when they click the links (which I have received some great deals by doing so).

I have banner images turned off in OmniWeb, manly because banner ads are typically junk, but I like relevant text links, or text ad boxes, because advertising works (and I want it to work) when advertisers do a good job. Text links require better targeting, and are more likely to be clicked.

Does this "DJ Afroman" have anything to do with Afroman the drug dealing rapper? Download some of his songs on Morpheus, specifically Crazy Rap, and you'll see why I'm concerned with the legality of hard drive speakers.

Does this "DJ Afroman" have anything to do with Afroman the drug dealing rapper? Download some of his songs on Morpheus, specifically Crazy Rap, and you'll see why I'm concerned with the legality of hard drive speakers.

Maybe they are thinking that Prodigy won't be able to afford such good legal counsel as BT and may lose the case. Even if BT shouldn't win, they could win, and that would be bad...

I would have to disagree.. I would imagine that Prodigy's past success outshadows that of BT. For instance, consider the industry-changing success of Prodigy's 1997 CD release of Fat of the Land, which spawned dozens of copycat artists in Europe AND America, to BT's moderate success enjoyed by massive radio play of his y2k single release of Never Gonna Come Back Down, which IMHO was outdated years before its release.

Personally, I don't think they have a snowballs chance in Hell...

Well I should think not, considering that snowball IS going after The Firestarter!

It would bode lots of companies to rally around Prodigy and give them a hand with legal costs.

Well you have to remember that Prodigy's front man, Keith Flint isn't the most upstanding of a character, and many companies may fear a PR backlash from their supporting him :(

Even the EFF might be interested in this one.

I don't think that the Electronica Frontier Foundation will get involved in this. They believe, as do I, that there is equal merit in Industrial and Club variants of techno.

Maybe they are thinking that Prodigy won't be able to afford such good legal counsel as BT and may lose the case. Even if BT shouldn't win, they could win, and that would be bad...

I would have to disagree.. I would imagine that Prodigy's past success outshadows that of BT. For instance, consider the industry-changing success of Prodigy's 1997 CD release of Fat of the Land, which spawned dozens of copycat artists in Europe AND America, to BT's moderate success enjoyed by massive radio play of his y2k single release of Never Gonna Come Back Down, which IMHO was outdated years before its release.

Personally, I don't think they have a snowballs chance in Hell...

Well I should think not, considering that snowball IS going after The Firestarter!

It would bode lots of companies to rally around Prodigy and give them a hand with legal costs.

Well you have to remember that Prodigy's front man, Keith Flint isn't the most upstanding of a character, and many companies may fear a PR backlash from their supporting him :(

Even the EFF might be interested in this one.

I don't think that the Electronica Frontier Foundation will get involved in this. They believe, as do I, that there is equal merit in Industrial and Club variants of techno.

What beef does BT have with the group Prodigy?

What beef does BT have with the group Prodigy?

Yes you can get it on DVD, and I highly recommend the deluxe boxed set. For your convenience, I've linked directly to a web retailer where you can buy it.

On the topic of bitrates, I rip all my CDs at 320kbps. Now that's quality :)

Yet not all audio is out there. Ever tried searching for Bass 6's "I Am Bass" or DJ Billy-E's "Generator"? Heck, try finding any of Bass 6's or DJ Billy-E's songs on Morpheus or Audiogalaxy. The simple fact is, no one has them. This is where P2P fails.

On the topic of bitrates, I rip all my CDs at 320kbps. Now that's quality :)

Yet not all audio is out there. Ever tried searching for Bass 6's "I Am Bass" or DJ Billy-E's "Generator"? Heck, try finding any of Bass 6's or DJ Billy-E's songs on Morpheus or Audiogalaxy. The simple fact is, no one has them. This is where P2P fails.

I definitely would, if we're talking about a decent selection of songs. CDNow used to have a build yer own CD section - I just looked at the site and don't see it anymore, but I might be missing it. I never used it because I couldn't find any songs/artists I was interested in, and if I'm not mistaken, some of the tracks were covers. I would pay a premium to be able to buy just the songs I like and have them on one disc. And the bonus track-free sample notion is a good one, as well. I bought my first Dead Can Dance cd after an Amazon recommendation, and a Tarkan cd (Turkish pop) after someone on Napster suggested it.

Take a look at names Microsoft gives it's technology vs Linux. Active Directory, Intellimirror and other catchy names is what sell it. Who want to surf the Internet with Konqueror? Sounds like a death metal band.

Close enough...

Aphex Twin ran his self-portrait into a spectrum analyzer and then outputed the audio wave form of it as track 2 of his Windowlicker single, named DeltaMi-1=aSigman=1Di(n)(SigmajEC(i)Fij(n-1)+Fexti (n-1))

old & in the way -- it's 'newgrass' from the 70s, with Jerry Garcia (banjo), Peter Rowan (guitar), Vassar Clements (violin), John Kahn (bass), and david grisman (mandolin). I like it.

Is there an ideal level at which this rather arbitrary standard should be set? Probably. I happen to believe that at present it is far too low, since even a striking appearance and a decent voice can be mistaken for 'exceptional talent' (ala Britney Spears or 'NSync.)

What needs to be understood about bands like N Sync, the Backstreet Boys, and Britney Spears, is that these bands do contain "exceptional talent", but I'm not talking about the stage performers, I'm talking about the producers, arrangers, and engineers who work in the background.

Or consider N Sync.

Consider the production credits for N Sync in the above link.

14 Producers
20 Engineers
4 Arrangers

A total of 38 people who had a hand in the album, over and above the stage performers, and the musicians. These are just the people who contributed to the album. This list doesn't even count the talent scouts, vocal coaches and instructors, choreographers, lighting crews, and costume designers that contribute to their live shows, and the marketing staff that promotes their albums, endorsements, and appearances.

These are producers, engineers, and arrangers who can and do turn any group of above-average singers into a hit band. Everyone thought that Destiny's Child and O-Town were cynical television experiments, but in the end, the producers proved that you really can manufacture a hit band, because the real talent in these sorts of bands is the team working behind the scenes to sculpt the young performers into teen idols, not the performers themselves. You could replace the performers, and the bands would still work. However, if the performers were to dump their production staffs, and try and continue their careers on their own, they wouldn't have a chance.

...Because eventually bands fade.

But look at this:

For example, Metallica. On CDNOW, their older records like Ride the Lightning are $15. Their newest effort is $10. A 33% increase is enormous. Any album that sells strong enough to stay in the catalog (until they fade away) becomes a cash cow for the label.

How many albums you know use the full 78 (wasn't it 74?) minutes?

I think about 10% of my collection (of 300) are longer than 75 minutes. The one I was thinking of was Tool's recent album Lateralus , which would be very different without the 5 minute outro at the end.

He released a new album just a couple of years ago. Really angry hard stuff.

CDNOW does mention the protection scheme in its synopsis of the CD. But they do call it a "ham-handed and unjustifiable response to the problem" of piracy.

I hit the lameness filter. So now I'll write some more text.

Bockman, I'd be curious to find out on what you base the assertion that "CD Now cannot _legally_ sell credit card info . . . nor user preferences. "

CD Now has a privacy policy, the relevant portion of which states:

"We will not rent or sell your name, address, email address, credit card information or personal information to any third party without your permission. However, we must cooperate fully should a situation arise where we are required by law or legal process to provide information about a customer." (CD Now's Privacy Policy)

Lets assume for a moment that this constitutes a legally binding agreement between you and CDNow. (A question somewhat up in the air, particularly here in New York, given recent caselaw on click-through licenses). Let's further assume that CDNow violates this agreement if it sells your information. Your option is to sue CDNow for breach of contract and if a court finds the agreement to be legally binding and if the court finds they have breached, you will be allowed to prove your damages arising out of that breach and be compensated. If you live in the US that's probably about $50, the maximum liability you might sustain for fraudulent use of your credit card information. There has never been a successful lawsuit for missuse of "personal demographic information" or "musical taste" or anything like that. Remember here what many lawyers forget: in civil actions, "no harm no foul" is a good defense. Unless you can show with certainty that you have been harmed by CDNow's sale of this information, you have no legal recourse.

Then again, if CDNow goes into bankruptcy, the customer database would likely be considered an asset and sold. This would be ordered by the bankruptcy court, required by law, and therefore exempt from the privacy policy according to the second sentence of the language quoted above.

This is what happened to Toysmart, which sought to sell its customer lists in bankruptcy. It was sued by the FTC and various state attorneys general for the attempt (press release) but the case eventually settled when the Bankruptcy court found that there were no real buyers and Disney (the majority shareholer) agreed to pay $50,000 to Toysmart's creditors in exchange for having the info destroyed (NY AG press release).

The Toysmart case has led to an effort to get a law passed making it illegal to sell private information, but no such general law exists yet as far as I know. Thus it is not illegal (at least in most US states) to sell user preferences. Certain kinds of sensitive information (such as medical records) are protected by state law, and personally identifiable information that has been collected on a user under 13 years old cannot legally be sold (see: COPPA: The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act), but there is no general federal law barring sale of this kind of information.

Just an aside. IAAL, but this should not be construed as legal advice or relied upon for any purpose.

1. A while ago CD Now announced that they may be going out of business. This filled me with dread because they had my credit card info which would probably have been sold along with my CD listening preferences to the highest bidder as part of the liquidation process. At that time I would have loved it if there was some central place where CD Now got my credit card info from that I could just tell, "Hey, no longer share my credit card info with CD Now."
   
   
2. Also after the above incident I stopped shopping at CD Now and started shopping at Amazon. This meant that all the music preferences I had built up from rating over a hundred CDs at CDNow were lost and the only way to rebuild that relationship with Amazon would be to rate X amount of music or hope Amazon could do similar things with less info (which they have surprisingly enough). Again, some central repository which I could tell,"Stop sharing my music preferences with CD Now and share them with Amazon" would have been ideal.

• Guaranteeing security and reliability will be a bitch and a half.
• Websites may resist adopting it since customer info is the one valuable thing they have.
• Without motivation (i.e. marketing blitz) and an easy way to sign up, consumers won't flock to it.
• Entrusting all that information to a single entity would make some peole nervous.

Don Henley of the Eagles? This Don Henley? He cries fowl (sic) claiming that big business will trample our rights? Shock! Horror!

What a crock of shit

You can still buy newer LPs and they aren't $29.44. Adeline Records sells some LPs and EPs, the average price there is $3.50 for EPs and $12 for LPs.

Also, cd now has vinyl copies of music for sale from some artists.

-Graham

First, I'd like to give a classic example of strongly correlated things with no causation.

Airconditioner useage is very strongly correlated with deaths by heatstroke. It's a very very strong correlation. In the past decade, almost nobody has died of heatstroke while airconditioner usage was low.

In this example, it is very easy to spot the third-variable effect: temperature. Nobody dies of heatstroke when it is cold outside. Also, nobody runs their airconditioner when it is cold. If it is 95 and humid out, many people will die of heatstroke. By the same token, everybody who is able will be running their airconditioner.

So, as you can see, it is very possible for two things to be correlated and not have a shred of causality between them either way. Now that that's done with, I'd like to talk about CD sales patterns amoung college students. There was a study done that quite thoughourly showed that there was a strong correlation between internet access at colleges and CD sales at nearby stores. The more internet access there was, the fewer CD's were sold.

Now, the study was done such that any possible third variable effects were tightly controlled. They compared entering freshmen classes to previous freshmen classes, and they compared classes against themselves (this years sophmores against last year's freshmen). To control any differences between these groups (this year's freshmen aren't into music, older students don't have as much free cash, etc), they also compared different universities against eachother, that as best the researchers could tell, differed only in how fast they rolled out Ethernet in the dorms. By trying very hard to control third-variable effects, the study could then claim to show causality.

The writeup of the study that I saw drew the conclusion that as more and more students got fast internet access, they became able to download their music from Napster, and therefore didn't need to buy CD's. However, a later study showed that students were buying more CDs than before. Now, we have to wonder, why did the earlier study fail?

The moral of the story is: yes, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but if you're careful with third variable effects, it can mean causation. Even so, be sure you choose the correct source of causality.

* Sigh. *

That would be Weezer. They just came out with a new album. It is quite good.

i'm not exactly sure myself, but if you check on cdnow, and check a few no limit cds, the record label is listed as BMG/JIVE/NOVUS/SILVERTONE/let=M(for instance Mystikal). I don't know what the hell that means, but it might be because that cd might manufactured and distributed by one company, and copyrighted by No Limit.
Another thing I noticed on indie albums is that if any artist from another label collaborates with an artist from the indie (which happens basically on every hip hop cd), the track info in the cd insert will say "appears courtesy of (label) Records". The major labels control indies on many levels. . .

"valueable intellectual property"...
psst..

don't tell them it can be obtained by going into a cd store... shhhhh.

Or at CDNow, CDUniverse, Cheap CDs, Buy.com, Amazon.com.....


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There's software like that for Winamp, I can't remember the name, but, that technology never has really worked correctly anyway, because I would think the Genre's are unsorted correctly. For explain, Pink Floyd could be listed under Rock, Pop, etc, etc...same goes for the other million groups out there...

Take a look at cdnow, they have that setup based on what you buy, and it displays music I wouldn't even think about listening to.

.kb

Underworld, one of the most well-known House/Techno/Electronica groups, is often considered to be one of the best performers in the genre because of their concerts are such intense, high-energy multimedia experiences. They recently released a highly interactive DVD entitled "Everything, Everything" to coincide with their incredible live CD of the same name, intended to recapture the concert experience. Not only does it manage to bring the essence of their shows to a new medium, but it's also an impressive interactive multimedia experiment on its own.

-spc

Despite growing up in small-town Iowa, I managed to develop a taste for rap/hip-hop/techno/etc.especially scratching. (I think it all started with Run-D.M.C.'s "Peter Piper" from Raising Hell.)

Anyway, I listened to "CowboyNeal Meets R2D2" and "All That Scratchin'" and wanted to extend my complements! They're quite good! (I also noted the reference to DJ QBertfor Christmas I received one of Mix Master Mike's CDs, another of the Invisbl Skratch Piklz and DJ for the Beastie Boys)

I'd like to learn this skill. Jon, what sort of turntables do you own? Someday, perhaps I'll get some DJ-quality turntables. . . I've got a lot of vinyl that needs playing . . .

heh. That's not half as bad as Trick Daddy's album titled www.thug.com. Song 1 - Log on. Song 16 - Log off. Be sure to check that album cover art; top quality artistry there.

for those who like DK and jello in general, go check out LARD (cdnow link).

lard is an industrial rock group with jello biafra and al jourgensen from ministry. they have the same sort of anti-establishment views dk and biafra have pushed, with a slick metal sound.

go check it out. :)
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However, I'd rather be waiting for the Radiohead CD.

It was released on Tuesday in North America, been out since Monday in Europe. Some places, like Ireland and Japan, got in on the 27th September, and some places (Australia and that area) should have it, but are experiencing some distribution problems. Check your local store or CD Now or Amazon for example. Those crafty North Americans also get a limited edition CD with a hard back, children story style, book. If you wanna send one over to Ireland, let me know :)

"Karma whore, arrest this man, he talks off-topic, he buzzes like a fridge ..."

.iMMersE

-Superb0wl

Earlier research, released by Soundscan in May, showed declining CD sales at stores near universities

In other news, computer stores and books stores next to college campuses are showing the lowest sales rates in years.

I wonder why? Could there perhaps be a connection?

I'm surprised Hatch didn't, in the interest of full disclosure, provide a little background to his diatribe...

You see, once upon a time, Orrin Hatch recorded a CD full of music. Not just music, but folk music. Not just folk music, but Christian folk music. And it was bad - reeeaal bad. Bad enough to make William Shatner sound like Luciano Pavarotti. Really. Don't believe me?

Now, legend has it that old "Orrie" got spurned completely on his ass when he tried to sell his 74-minute croonfest to the major record labels. So it's obvious why he wants to screw them over now - as an independent artist, he has no way of circumventing the system! Digital distribution allows him to share his ... erm ... unique brand of music with the world. Hooray!

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I submitted this article three days ago but it was refused for some reason, probably because the story also ran on kuro5hin. So far I have read all the posts in this thread and most of them are focussing on DoubleClick which is incidental to the news story instead of discussing the fact that dotcomms are not only selling dotcomm info but are taking out ads to do so.

From the artricle: Toysmart, meanwhile, advertised the sale of its customer list and database in The Wall Street Journal last month after ceasing operations. The company overseeing the sale of Toysmart's assets, the Recovery Group, said several interested parties have bid on the customer information.

I am very worried at this trend, because I have a lot of personal data at CDNow and considering that they are in serious trouble will my personal data also be sold? I have begun to fear for all the dotcomms I have ever bought anything from because the last thing I'd want is for my address, credit card info and shopping habits to be sold by some failed e-business like some email spam list. The fact that the companies are taking out ads to sell our info and hiring agents to do this shows completely that industry self regulation has failed. I sincerely hope the FTC jumps on this like a porkchop in a dog kennel.

"We are also providing a list which contains the MD5 signature of each offending music file," said the notice. "We require you to remove this content from your service. If you remove this content, you are not required to delete the distinct users from Napster. We would prefer that the specific offensive files be blocked by their MD5 signature, instead of blocking specific users."

I'm assuming that CDNOW got their mp3's off of a CD in order to distribute them. Here in my hand is an "Eminem" CD (it was in our lab's lost+found). On the CD itself is the following;

Unauthorized reproduction of this recording is prohibited by Federal law and is subject to criminal prosecution.

Now if CDnow is legally able to distribute mp3's to you, that means they have sought and won authorization from the record label (I'm guessing) or the distributer. However I'm pretty certain that this license does not get transferred to whomever downloads the mp3's. If that is not enough consider the following from the CDnow website
Can downloaded music be copied or moved from one computer to another?

It depends on whether the music you downloaded has copy protection. Some music is given away freely and may be copied or moved. Digital Music Downloads that you buy from CDNOW cannot be copied or moved to another computer.

So this would lead one to believe that if the clips are music that is given to you gratis then you can do with it as you wish. If you paid for these clips then no.

As I said before, I think that the copyright laws right now are pretty ridiculous, and I'm only pointing this out to underline that, and to make sure people know exactly what those licenses say, since the movie and record industries seem more apt to pursue them.

He's got a new album out. I've never been a big fan of his, but the new one is actually decent. In one track, he explains how he's been battling his former label, so he probably just wants to make some green to pay his costs. He can't very well let his fans trade his music without paying him now can he? After all, he has legal fees to pay now. ;-)

And try here as well...you might remember these selections from April Fools Day on MTV about 5 years ago...

I remember being thoroughly excited when David Bowie released a single exclusively online through N2K Inc., aka owners of Music Boulevard that merged with CDnow in 1999. I thought, this is it, the prices of CD burners are going to come down and soon I'm going to be able to buy music off of the internet directly from the artists and say bye-bye to record company price monopolies that maintain exorbitant CD prices when CDs are actually cheaper to produce than cassette tapes. Yet, that day is still not here because the record companies are making sure it doesn't happen.

I stopped working as a contract Audio Producer for a big company once I discovered the horrifying draconian contracts they were having the artists whose work we recorded and used online sign - the artists had to completely give up all rights to their own work. I mean, all of them as in the company holds all exclusive rights.

Part of the justification for this was because the company didn't want to have to deal with figuring out the royalties of music being accessed online. What if the user doesn't have a sound card or doesn't have their speakers turned up? How do you determine how many people really listened to the music on that page? So the company just followed the lead of the record industry - when in doubt, leave the artist out. Foolishly, I even did some composition work for the company before fully realizing what I had given up. Random note: my manager at the company was incredibly conscientious about seeing that contract artists received proper payment and credit for their work and was constantly struggling to have the contracts changed.

My point, (do I have one?), is that the record companies are not going to give up their monopoly. Furthermore, artists know that record companies have the marketing muscle and radio station influence to get them known and their music heard. And the record companies require that they pay for that influence, dearly. The only real solution is for artists to not go through the major record companies at all and either use smaller labels, like Sub Pop and Peerless Music, or do it themselves.

- tokengeekgrrl
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions

I think that anyone who didn't realize that the bottom was going to fall out of the tech stock economic boom is a fool. The only question now is whether they can level off their business or if they are going to crash and burn.

I particularly liked the absurd sites that I have seen advertised such as snowball.com which are spending on tv advertising even, but they literally have no product to sell.

I frankly don't need to look at a million and one websites a day where I get some news and a bunch of random people post their opinions. Oh wait a minute...

Seriously though, I hope Amazon.com and CDNOW.com both do bottom out and end up giving me some really good deals. There's nothing like taking advantage of someone's misfortune.

I don't mean to pimp a commercial webpage, but CDNow has been selling vinyl for a while now, and usually has a vinyl version for most new releases, which is also usually cheaper than the CD release. Tired of paying $20 for a CD, pay $10 for vinyl. Now, if I could just get an in-dash turntable for the car....

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