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Record Companies Sued Over Charley Pride CD
DevNova writes: "This posting describes a woman in California suing Fahrenheit Entertainment, Inc. and its label Music City Records over CDs she has purchased which use a proprietary music encoding scheme that prevents them from being listened to without the user identifying themselves. These CDs won't play on standard CD players, are not encoded in the popular MP3 format, and will not play on a computer until the user enters personal information. A large part of the suit is that Fahrenheit discloses none of this information on the packaging."
The nerve. They must know her name and info so
they can sell her MORE crappy music.
Sort of like DVDs vs. DIVX.
she just doesn't want anyone to know that she bought a charley pride cd.
I guess it makes sense to try out their new protection schemes on music no one is going to listen to anyways.
This is some ghetto ass charity give away cd, right? How good could it be? You didn't pay for it, and it's likely to be a bunch of artists who's songs are either on the radio all the time or unheard of. I'd love to see someone try and release a commercial product with this scheme. If record companies are so bent out of shape about making money, this crap will never fly.
Whatever format this CD uses, I can't see Sony etc scrambling to follow this. Joe User is at least more receptive to privacy concerns than intellectual property issues.
:)
Off topic, maybe its just me, but I kind of enjoy watching big media cos get shafted with lawsuits these days
i am a musician and i give away all of it. i dont sell it.
this is the only way to keep out controls like this.
this shit is just going to get worse, and it makes me very quiet, i feel like everyone around me is a little fascist now. i won't take an opportunity in music although it's not likely i'd get one anyway since i don't look like britney spears.
i guess that i am willing to get sick and die and not go to a hospital, or to have my own teeth fall out because i don't have benefits, so a corporate system doesn't own me.
in a few months my honeymoon will be over.. if i don't post anymore it means i am gone for good.
Goat sex free since 2001
Well I dont'th ink its a bad idea as long as I can get a list of everyone who buys this crappy music, or other crappy music for that matter. Its these kind of people who watch the VMA's. Oh well I guess everyone can't listen to Tool, Deftones, and Rage Against the Machine...
For the love of humanity take off your clothes!!
It's one thing to sell CDs that require that the user identify themselves. However, if you're going to make such demands of the customers, at least have the decency to warn them before they purchase your product. What ever happened to the concept of informed consent and truth in advertising?
******
"What makes you think I care about your opinions?"
..Nothing like waking up in the morning and keying in your social security number so you can listen to that new CD.. You're morning relief is sampled by the 'smart toilet' and sent in to the lab for analysis.. The bio-metric toaster needs a finger print confirmation to make toast for you, and a quick retinal scan to send your dreams in to 'Global Corp' .. Why remove the wiring harness ever? But we did away with Piracy! Now everybody is RICH! Hoo-Ray!
air and light and time and space
But the margin is protected by the DMCA and so is to small to write the solution.
So, does this mean that if the cramped label somehow managed to display all of this information alongside the parental ratings and the UPC code in 1-point type, everything would be OK?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
These CDs won't play on standard CD players, are not encoded in the popular MP3 format, and will not play on a computer until the user enters personal information.
Actually the suit says that they won't play in standard Audio CD drives in computers, not that the CD won't play in a stand alone CD player. I should hope that the music stores them selves would refuse to carry something that won't even play in a regular CD player.
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
The letter makes no mention of the CD not working in normal audio players. Apparently the CD will not work in CD-ROM drives, but allows the user the ability to register with the record label and download a proprietary encoding of the song to play on their computer.
This could be good for those of us who have CD-Burners.
If some sort of precedence in a court of law is found in this case, it may prevent companies from making this type of CD, or at least provide proper labeling of these "BAD" cd's. I know I'd be able to stay away from these types of CD's.
Let's hope she wins over corporate America, and help all of us who burn CD's like mad.
Go see ramdac
There is definitly no way that any company should be able to collect information about a person that has purchased their CD. If this was a promotional CD I could see the point but if you purchase something it becomes yours (and you are free to do w/it whatever you wish) you paid a fee to give you rights. They are invading your privacy.
The fact that they are hiding this from view is an obvious attempt at actually selling the CDs. No one is going to buy the god damn things b/c of this crap. Hell, I hate to shop at Radio Shack b/c of the fact that they ask for my private information and seem to feel it is their god given right to have it. (No, I will NOT give them any of my info even if I purchase my items w/a CC -- this usually really irritates the clerk -- the information they need is how much the item costs, how much I paid, and that's it)
I am sick and tired of this crap. If I don't want to be known I don't have to be. Once you buy something you own it. That's it. Their ownership of the item stops when money exchanges hands.
Fuck that.
This is SCHWEEEEEET! I'd like to see the end result of this one :)
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
They're probably using this as a test for the RIAA...and they knew no hacker would try to break it cause no hacker would ever want to.
I can hear the sales committee to RIAA 6 months later.."See, our propritary technology hasn't been cracked - it's safe to implement for all CD sales...
Two weeks later...teenage munchkins find out they can't listen to Limp Bisquit and break the encoding...end of story.
Funny as hell...why Charley Pride? Covering Jim Reeves, no less?
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
Chuckie is well known in his own field (blues/country, if I recall correctly). This isn't a mix CD or a giveaway, and Mr. Pride himself agreed to be the guinea pig for this CD format a while ago. I hope it costs him dearly in terms of sales.
Virg
I couldn't tell from the artice, does the cd play on NON computer cdplayers?
Suing for the $20 a CD costs? It costs more in court fees to sue. How can she expect to get any more than the price of the CD? And why not simply return it? I understand that this may be out of principle, but she'd have more of a case if she bought 100 of these cds only to find out they couldn't be played in a standard CD player.
CDNOW does mention the protection scheme in its synopsis of the CD. But they do call it a "ham-handed and unjustifiable response to the problem" of piracy.
Read between the lines. The cd works fine if you just want to listen to the tunes. If you want to get some EXTRA features that are included at no extra charge, you have to give up something in exchange. What's wrong with that? If you don't want to listen to the extra encoded stuff, don't.
My wife just bought a cd (arg! I can't remember the artist name, Toby sumthin-or-other, your basic country crapola [metal rules, imho]). Anyways, there was NO indication anywhere on the cd that it was copy-protected, but it absolutely could not be backed-up with ezcd (she likes the security and convenience of having copied-cd's for use in the car, and leaving the original at the house). After a couple of tries, I moved on to attempting to just rip the tracks to
My point (having wandered a bit away from the original topic), is that more than one record company seems to be trying to sneak this sort of crap past consumers.
This posting describes a woman in California suing Fahrenheit Entertainment, Inc. and its label Music City Records
Hmmm.... Music City Records... Is it ironic that MusicCity is also a decentralized filesharing service based on the same technology as KaZaA?
Would it be further ironic if somebody figured out how to decrypt Circuit City DIVX movies and encode them with a DivX MPEG-4 codec?
Will I retire or break 10K?
if you ask me, this is what you get when you buy cd's by someone named "charlie pride"
"Warms my heart to hear" or :)
"Restores my faith in humanity" or
"Makes me feel like taking a dump"
nuclear presidential echelon assassination encryption virulent strain
Whizzmo
Wow, who would've thunk it?! Copyright control and protection mechanisms might hurt sales? While completely unrevolutionary to anyone who has actually USED Napster or other file sharing P2P networks, I'm sure this will just be an extraordinary revolution to Hillary Rosen and her cronies. Don't want to screw yourselves out of a bunch of extra profits? - just screw the customer out of their legally provided rights...
I noticed at the very end of the complaint that a jury trial is requested. This is good because if that request is granted, it will mean that regular Joes and Janes will be the ones deciding this case, and juries have traditionnally tended to lean toward what they personally feel is right, not what is legally right.
Natuarally the defendants will do everything hty can to block a jury and have just the judge.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
There was no disclosure on the packaging about the protection, and "rip-proof" means for the average user, a stripping away of fair-use rights such as making an archival copy in case the original blows up.
People do not like to lose the rights they once had. Imagine someone taking away your right to drive a car, for example.
I hope this case goes far, since the DMCA already has gone too far.
... as long as the CEO of Fahrenheit Entertainment is willing to web-cast the details of all the music (s)he listens to.
Actually at least a month before this CD was released there was an article on CNN and i think MSNBC had it to, explaining the whole thing. It's not secret or anything. Actually i submitted it to slashdot but it was rejected becuase discussing weeners who paint their gameboys blue or something was more important that day.
From the press release:
"that electronic music files made available for download pursuant to purchase of its CD are proprietary in nature, that such electronic music files will not work on portable MP3 players"
While there are certain aspects of this Lawsuit that I would definately like to see successful in a court, it makes me a touch ill that included in the lawsuit is the fact that the encoded version of the CD is NOT mp3.
MP3 as an encoding format has pretty much captured the market, but I certainly don't want it to be REQUIRED by law. bleh.
-Patric
dont have too much Pride when they pull crap like this. Pun intended.
*
If I really told you how to do it I would have to:Answer: D!!!
DING! DING! DING!
Your'e a weiner!!
If you're not on somebody's shit list, you're not doing anything worthwhile.....
So the next question is :
Is filing a lawsuit to stop the data collection and to stop this practice in fact a violation under the DCMA, and an illegal lawsuit?
you know somebody is going to try to argue that point, and may even find a nitwit judge to agree.
- - -
Radio Free Nation
an alternate news site using Slash Code
"If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Fahrenheit Entertainment, Sunncomm and the RIAA have announced a lawsuit filed against Ira Rothken of The Rothken Law Firm and his unnamed client for attempted circumvention of a copy protection device. Attorneys for the plantiff claim that by attempting to use litigation to remove a copy protection method the defendant is effectively circumventing that method and thus in violation of the DMCA. They also argue that if their clients were forced to identify products protected by this device it would weaken the effectiveness of the device and could ultimately lead to circumvention; therefore the defendant should be liable for contributory circumvention of a copy protection device.
The RIAA was not available for comment, but the FBI has raided the offices of The Rothken Law Firm on a sealed warrant in search of evidence.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Perhaps CDNOW could add a "Copy-Protected?" field in the searchable database. Then we could all de-select it (like some de-select Katz) and know that the CDs we buy are, in fact, real.
sulli
RTFJ.
I recently picked up Travis' new CD: The Invisible Band. Guess what, it's copyprotected too! I have half a mind to strip the songs via "other" methods and return it to the store saying that it won't play in my CD player.
Pretty bad when you are trying to support a cool band and they end up shooting you in the back.
The judge could aware punitive damages of hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is over and above the compensatory damages (which could include not only the original purchase price, but legal fees, lost wages while in court, etc.)
Besides, some lawsuits happen because someone feels that there is an injustice in the world, not out of some sense of personal greed. If you don't understand this, ask some of your Democratic friends to explain it to you.
(Not to right-wing moderators: I have 50 Karma points, so I can afford to lose two or three for being honest here.)
RIAA: All your rights after you bought this cd are belong to us.
.jpg because of pr0n pics are being traded.
Fahrenheit: Someone set us up the worst idea ever.
Consumer: Main screen turn on [then enter my SS#, then my DOB, then my mothers maiden name, then my biometric information]
RIAA Again: Gentelman... all your standards are belong to no one
-=Nothing useful to post, just want to let you know=-
Actually I 99.9% agree with the case against napster and I can't believe I'm downloading unsaid music videos now, but this is out of control.
Trying to kill the mp3 format because of P2P is like trying to kill
Lets all switch to our own formats that only our own computers can read... fu** everyone! Like Bush said yesterday, scared people build walls, confident people tear them down [not his line, of course]
Get your Unix fortune now!
I'm worried that all the recording companies will do is add in the fine print at the bottom of the back side cover that says something like "This CD is protected by the use of the FairUseSucks System and may not play on computers without entering personal information. Please visit www.weownj00.com for our privacy policy; opening of this package indicates your agreement to this policy". Bingo, they have just gotten out of a lawsuit.
At this point, one would then need to envoke the infamous time-shifting case to fight back for fair use.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
That is what they are really doing. ALOT of people buy cd so they can use them in their car and computer. They are selling what is thought to be a regular cd when it is really an "crippled" version of a cd. That is really what is going on here. I hope she wins
What can we do about this? We can support companies who make CD-ROM drives that are not affected by the protection. (Several of these have been "discovered" recently.) We can lobby Congress and ask for a bill that gives us our fair use rights again. We can buy a $30 Discman clone and use that to play CDs, like in the good old days. There's no easy answer, but to paraphrase the old cliche, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
-all dead homiez
The solution to this is really easy enough- Don't buy any cd that you know uses this technology. Ifyou buy one by mistake, return it, and write a letter to the record company telling them exactly why you will never purchase product from them again. I recently went through a similar experience when a flawed copy protection scheme went bad- I could no longer use the software I had purchased legitmately. I had to get a cracked version for a while (which was hassle free btw.)I ended up politely ranting at the CFO of the copy protection software company. Granted the CFO of Time-Warner might not drop you an email,but sooner or later they will drop stupid sh*t like this when they realize that people will not buy a flawed product.
I noticed the complaint letter doesnt list a dollar amount for damages. This is good because the defendants wont be able to offer a cash settlement very easily, like in many other cases. The woman here wants them to fix the problems for the better of the public and doesnt appear to want money in return.
Reminds of a case several years ago when families were suing automakers for problems with airbags killing loved ones. People were suing for tremendoesly large cash settlements, and getting them, but the airbag problems were going unchecked, as newer cars still had the same problem. One man (who himself was a lawyer) lost his wife in an accident because of the airbag in one of those newer vehicles. He sued, but emphasized that settlement would only be reached if the auto makers fixed the airbag problems and refused cash settlements. The judge ruled in his favor and ordered the automaker to repair the problem.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
The real damage here, is that being done to his reputation among his listeners.
Not that I was likely to do so anyway, but knowing that his recent CD's are broken would give me a strong inclination not to buy them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
how am I supposed to listen to one of these copy-protected CDs? I only own 1 CD player other than my PC, it's a 4yr old portable. I know I'm not alone here.
We are all saying that the disc wasn't labeled correctly to show the end user that it was fu**ed, but what about the Audio Compact Disc Label?
The label that all CDs carry if they are using the standard shouldn't be on this disc.
This isn't an audio CD if it doesn't play in my car, dvd player, sega dreamcast, etc.
So, does it have that label? And if it does can't philips (or sony?) sue them?
Get your Unix fortune now!
The judge might award the lady for damages ensued, all $17.99 of it...
Next time just return it please...
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Could it be possible that if you do not install their software and then call for a regular windoze cd player it would work as on a regular sound system's CD player?
If people just try to click on a data and audio CD that got a AUTORUN.INF only the promotional software will run.
Am I dumb or what?
CDNOW says: One non-musical caveat: The CD is copy-protected, and cannot be played by anything but a standard audio player. If you wish to use your computer to listen to the music that you purchased on CD, you'll have to go to the website of the company providing the protection technology and download, one at a time, Windows Media file versions of the 15 tracks (and if you own a Mac, you're simply out of luck). Intellectual property holders have legitimate concerns about piracy these days, but this is a ham-handed and unjustifiable response to the problem So it will play on a standard audio CD player. How long before CD-Drive manufacturers add a "pure audio" mode to drives?
Day One
"Hi, I bought this CD yesterday but cannot get it to play on my PC at home. The other CD I bought yesterday plays fine, so this must be defective. Can I get a replacement?"
Day Two
"Hi, I got this replacement for a CD that wouldn't play on my PC yesterday and this one seems bad, too. Might be a bad production run of CD's. Can I try another?"
Rinse well, repeat as necessary until all CD's of that recording are sent back to label marked "defective".
Next will come registering DVD movies. Then web-enabled devices such as game stations. Eventually anything with a microchip and the potential of connecting to a network will require registration.
Imagine registering your web-enable toaster before getting your toasted Pop-Tarts.
--- igiveup ---
Anyone who is active in EFF / CAFE involved in this yet? (sheepishly -- I pitch in with $$)
...in this lawsuit was, I'm sure, working up the gumption to admit that she actually bought a Charley Pride album. Shudder.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
The replies are redundant and predictable:
- "If I can hear it, I can copy it."
- "This will be cracked within minutes."
- "I am boycotting the RIAA, I will not buy any more music CD's."
ummm that is "*BSD is dying troll found dead at Studio 54"
> it makes me a touch ill that included in the lawsuit is
> the fact that the encoded version of the CD is NOT mp3.
This is a bit of an overextension of what was said. The gist of the suit (on this point) is that due to the fact that the CD is unplayable in a computer's CD-ROM drive, they decided to provide encoded files that the purchaser can download to listen to on the PC (a good thing). However, their encoding on those audio files is proprietary (a bad thing, since they can't be used on a personal MP3 player) and they require entry of much personal information to get the files (a very bad thing) and they don't bother to tell anyone about this issue before they buy the CD (a very, very bad thing). She's not insisting that the company make the files available in MP3 format. They are (by the wording of the suit) allowed to do just what they did. The reason for her suit is that they didn't notify her that they were doing any of it, and because of it she was unable to make an informed decision about whether she wanted to buy the CD in the first place.
Virg
Deceptive practices indeed!
I think this is a worthwhile fight to have, and might even be inclined to donate my lunch money to help this "cause."
(Now, my drinkin' money, on the other hand, is sacred. The only cause that goes to is getting me drunk. But I'm sure I can do without a few lunches, to "fight the good fight"...)
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
sue the bastards for thinking they can seripticiously do anything they want because they so big and bad....
-teknopurge
TechieNews Network help us beta!!!!
Website Hosting
Come on...she is not being FORCED to register nor is information being collected without her information. This is not like, e.g. companies violating their stated privacy policies. Moreover there is likely no representation that the CD will play on a computer 'anonymously'. At BEST she should be entitled to a refund. I'll this woman doesn't even listen to Charlie Pride. If ever I could imagine a frivolous lawsuit, this is it. Wonder why I don't here the slashbots squawking their usual song about frivolous lawsuits ?
Really?
Think of this: if you went to the record store and told them that you dropped and broke your CD, here are the pieces and the receipts, and could they please replace it - do you think they'd give you a new CD? Or would they laugh you out of the store? Suddenly, it looks like you bought something physical after all, and not the license to listen to the music on the CD, doesn't it...?
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
I'm a right-wing nut (libertarian, actually), but I agree with the principles behind this suit. If the company implies that you can download music from the CD, you should be able to and without restrictions.
Right-wing nuts believe in honesty in business, and that's what this case amounts to.
D
How much sound quality would be lost if one plugged the "out" on a moderatly good stereo into the "in" on a moderatly good sound card and recorded that way? The sound is going from digital to analog and back to digital, but it's never leaving the wires. As long as one made a "master" copy at full sampling rate, then made one's recordings from that, I would not think you'd loose much.
I'm just curious, because all these protection schemes seem to leave out the idea of a direct, hardware to hardware, copy being made, once the "appoved" player has decoded the sound. Since most decent sound systems are component systems, I don't see them removing the "out" from stereos, and since more and more people are playing with amatur video editing, I don't see them getting rid of the "in" on sound cards, so all of this is really kinda futile. At least that is how it seems to me, I might be missing something.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
"What d'you mean 'miss?'"
"I'm sorry, I have a cold...
I wish to make a complaint."
"Uh, sorry. We're closed for lunch."
"Never mind that, my lad! I wish to complain about this writer that I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique."
"Oh, yes, the Stephen King? What's, ah, what's wrong with it?"
"I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad...
It's dead, that's what's wrong with it."
"No, no. He's resting."
"Look, matey, I know a dead writer when I see one... and I'm looking at one right now."
"No, no. He's not dead, squire, he's resting. Remarkable writer, the Stephen King, innit, eh? Beautiful sentence structure!"
"The sentence structure, eh? Anyway, he's stone dead."
"No, no. He's resting."
"All right then, if he's resting, I'll wake him up!
ALOO, STEVIE WRITER!! I've got a lovely delicious fresh word processor for you if-"
>bang< "There, he moved!"
"No he didn't, that was you hitting the window!"
"I DID NOT!!"
"Yes, you did! .
ALLO, STEVIE!! WAKEY-WAKEY!! "
>tap tap tap<
"TESTING!"
>tap-tap tap-tap tap-tap<
"SHOW ALERT!!"
>tap tap tap<
" THIS IS YOUR NINE-O'CLOCK ALARM CALL!!!
. .
Now that's what I call a dead writer."
"No, no... he's stunned."
"Stunned?!"
"Yes! You stunned him, just as he was waking up! Stephen Kings stun easily!"
"Now, listen, matey! I've had enough of this! That writer is definately deceased, and when I purchased it not half an hour ago, you assured me that it's total lack of movement was due to it being tired and shagged out after a prolonged novel!"
"Well, he's- uh... he's probably pining for the fjords!"
" Pining for the fjords?! What kind of talk is that?! .
. .
Look! This is nothing to laugh at! Why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got him home?!"
"The Stephen King prefers tipping on its back! Remarkable writer, eh? Beautiful sentence structure!"
"Look, I took the liberty of examining that writer when I got it home, and I discovered that the only reason it had been sitting on its chair in the first place, was that it had been nailed there!"
"Well, of course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that writer down, it would have muscled open them bars, bent 'em apart with its pen, and VOOM! "
"VOOM?! Mate, this writer wouldn't VOOM if you put 4 million volts through it! It's bleeding demised!"
"No, no! It's pining!"
"It's not pining! It's passed on! This writer is no more!
He has ceased to be! Bereft of life, he rests in peace!
He's snuffed it! He's off to freedom, kicked the bucket!
He's shuffled off this mortal coil, downed the curain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible!!
He's extinct, in entirety! This is an ex-writer! "
"Well, I better replace it, then!"
"You want to get anything done in this country, you've gotta go...."
. . .
"Sorry, squire, I've had a look 'round back and we're right out of writers."
"I see, I see! I get the picture!"
"...I've got a slug."
"Does it write?"
"...not really..."
" WELL IT'S SCARCELY REPLACEMENT THEN, IS IT?!?! "
If the clerk asks what is wrong, you tell them your only cd player is your computer cdrom and your cd program can't play it. If they press further, you prefer a cdplayer program with a buffer and the music is noisy and distorted with it turned on.
People go out of your way to test the unmutilated status of audio cd's you buy. If it won't rip, it is broken, return it.
Just because people listen to country dosn't mean we shouldn't stand up for them.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
The only person in the world that bought the CD is suing. That's gonna drive the cost of his next recording up.
- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
That would have been much funnier if you had used the right abbreviation. Zero out of three tries, even.
DMCA DMCA DMCA Digital DMCA DMCA DMCA Millennium DMCA DMCA DMCA Copyright DMCA DMCA DMCA Act DMCA DMCA DMCA
Use a CD player with digital out and a sound card with digital input.
If the CD carries the "compact disc - digital audio" logo which you see on most CD cases, and so does the drive, then it should work without all this crap.
The record company is in direct violation of this. This is one they want us to forget.
My CD-ROM tray is empty, a victim of a broken record in-dus-try
I bought Charlie Prides latest, but it wasn't like a regular C-D
The wrappin said nothin' about this copyright protection scheme
oh, this is worse than my wife leavin' me
you see these companies suing geeks and fucking them. and you wonder why nobody ever fights back well (with exception to Felten, and if I am forgetting somebody else, I'm seriously sorry.)
I think the majority of geeks out there don't care to expend money on a lawyer and start suing companies back. It's your $10 vs their $1000.
But now this battle is hitting the mainstream. I'm not accusing the plaintiff in this case of being what I am about to describe, but this is just something I thought of.
There are plenty of people on welfare or otherwise who sue at the slightest thing (mcdonalds coffee trash, plenty of smaller things) and really have nothing better to do than spend their check on overprices cheap consumer goods and get drunk all day. To fund this, they bring lame lawsuits to court with lawyers who work on commission or something. Now these people are going to be hitting the courts to mess with these big companies. And these people really don't have anything better to do than sue and bug their lawyer all day about the status of the case. So then there will be a large army of people suing these stupid companies that are trying to push us around, hopefully.
At least these people will be giving back to society for once.
trying to sneak this sort of crap past consumers.
.
Well there you have the *real* crux of the problem. When see your involvement in this world, and the art you appreciate, as a function of being a consumer then they have you. When you stop to realize, that you are allowing your community, your government to enforce/condone and prosecute based on these kinds of fascist-business laws (intellectual property laws in general) you are in for a very serious uphill battle.
These publishing houses, *MUST* be made accountable to the public they wish to serve. They must not collude (RIAA) to abridge the rights of citizens.
If you think that your 'voting with your dollars' will make change - forget it. This is the way the USA presently works, and it really only works if you have *LOTS AND LOTS* of dollars. Otherwise you have no rights - your rights only exist in relation to your function in the economy.
Thats just plain wrong. The USA is a Plutocracy, and crap like this (extortion of people in the marketplace) is allowed to persist - you can forget about any 'human rights' and Really start considering yourself a consumer instead of a citizen
Whats my point? Please dont call yourself a "consumer", and dont call me a "consumer" when you do so you give up your power in the struggle, you accept the pretence (above) as being the frame of debate (the 'playing field' or 'perspective') to those who will justify this type of corporate action in the name of 'free markets' (etc), and you re-enforce the myriad of propaganda-enforced memes and words used in your culture. The last 15 years the USA has been bombarded with images/language and crap that tells its citizens they are 'consumers' their involvment in the world around them is embodied in the way they shop - this is a terribly impotent position. When faced with the power struggle that is described in this article, the corporate interests will *always* be served when you accept the master|corporation|king|church - slave|consumer|fife|congregation relationship.
If you think it dosnt matter; your wrong, go read some Chomsky.
I hate to shop at Radio Shack b/c of the fact that they ask for my private information and seem to feel it is their god given right to have it
Your experiences with Radio Shack must be very different from mine. They have never acted toward me like it was their god-given right to know my name and address. They do ask me, and I find the question somewhat annoying, but I Just Say No and they never press the issue. I see Radio Shack as being no different than the neighborhood drug dealers. They're just soliciting; they're not forcing me. As long as they don't try to "make me an offer I can't refuse", I don't have a problem with them. I disagree with them, but they're not hurting me, so we don't have a real problem.
So if you ever go back to Radio Shack and buy something and they want your address, or if a guy at the bus stop asks you if you're "looking for anything", Just Say No. It might work for you. It always works for me.
Because if so, you have just commited a serious crime. One that is punishable by heavy duty jail time. By linking to a web site which distributed circumvention technology, you are just as guilty as the criminals who are distributing the circumvention tech. At least according to the precedent set in the 2600 lawsuit.
What if a computer CD-ROM drive is the only means you have of playing an audio CD? Is it then your fault that you cannot use your purchased CD?
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
bastards - I was so close to my very own first post. I have had 3 2nd posts, no thanks to the stupid lameness filter.
I bow before you, for you have beaten me
I've seen alot of posts saying "Alright! The average Joe is finally becoming aware of copyright abuses!" which may or may not be true in this case. When the problem finally affected her personally, she took matters into her own hands. Kudos to her in either case, because the more things like this happen, the more challenged the legitimacy(*cough*) of the DMCA becomes. Now we gotta wait till the next Britney Spears CD or the next Limp Bizkit CD gets this copy protection crap on it, because then we'll see some REAL outcry... maybe that's why the chose Charley Pride: his CD would be a good test-case without angering a large segment of the demographic.
"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs
Then, "do you have yet?"
"a what?"
She then handed me a bag with a cue-cat in it . . . just a couple of weeks before they folded.
I'd almost forgotten I'd wanted one to manage my library . . .
hawk
-Dave
could they have possibly made this
article
harder on my eyes to read? damn.
I think we'll see more of this in the next few months. It may anger some people, but most will probably just enter the info like a bunch of sheep. So the publishers will give it a try, and see how far they can push the limits on this one. i had the same problem with a Sex in the City DVD lately. I tried to play it on my laptop, but it wouldn't work without installing a program, and entering personal information. BTW, the program fucked up my computer. i had to reinstall the whole OS. One thing's for sure- I'll never buy from the publisher of that disk again.
> Hell, I hate to shop at Radio Shack b/c of the fact that they ask for my private information and seem to feel it is their god given right to have it.
/. in the real world.
So don't give it. When they ask for your name, reply with: Cash Customer
Address:
Kind of like applying the anonymous coward concept from
Just another mad yank trying to sue someone... where's the news?
-- Mike
1) Play with standard CD player.
2) Run output to a good reel to reel deck (can be as high or higher quality than a CD, so losses are minimized).
3) Run back into soundcard and encode as desired... burn a real CD, even.
Not that anyone does this, but it could be done.
Is your band's music on the internet? If so, where? If not, why not? I'm a bit curious, since it doesn't seem that too many "amateur" bands are posting their music this way and having them do so would be a good argument against the all-out attack on the mp3 format.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
We DO have the RIGHT to TRAVEL.
2 .html
http://www.ptialaska.net/~swampy/interest/travel_
You can find more links via google : q=right+to+travel
When you "buy" software, you are actually purchasing the license, aka permission, to use it.
Similiarly, if you have a "driver's license" that means you DO NOT own your car.
This record company should be made an example of - someone with very high-end audio equipment should record the full contents of this CD, encode them, and ACTIVELY distribute them on the net.
The fact that the music is crap shouldn't stop us. Let's make this the most pirated CD in history.
I'm sure someone will be twisted enough to try that tack- and you're going to be sorry you mentioned it even in jest!
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
It has been nine months since the election
It has been eight months since the supreme court made their decision.
Get over it. Gore lost. Out of the first two counts Bush has won both. You cannot keep counting until Gore wins one and then say that should be the only one that counts.
Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean that they were not fairly elected.
Take your Michael Moore crap and go back to your delusional little world.
I have a feeling that the little decoder app or whatever you need to download to get the extra stuff on the CD is Windows only.
Great. Not only are we being told that we cannot make legal copies of CDs we purchase, we're being told that we need to use Microsoft Windows in order to utilize the entire CD. That is pure bullshit. *sigh*
All they need to do is be "burnt" once (and there's a LOT of people out there now with PC's using them as CD players (at work and home)) and they'll look for the warning label- just like I and many others do for Aspartame.
They'll see a drop of something like 10-30%, possibly more, probably real quick on their sales if they did that; and that's why they're not even putting it on the packaging in the first place.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
In other news, song swapping reached a record high level on the Internet in August as 3.05-billion files were swapped using various systems. The peak for the "Napster era" was 2.79-billion files, but, of course, the RIAA took care of that problem.
...is how most of you people on slashdot think that the world owes you everything for free. If someone creates something like music, literature, software, etc. and wants to sell it and make money from it that IS legal. What is not legal is copying and distributing this copyrighted material without permission. Hence the term copyright. Just because there was no copy protection on CD's up till recently doesn't mean it was legal to copy and distribute them.
Don't give me your sob stories about I want to use them for myself, etc. I doubt most of you ONLY do that. And if you do what's so horrible about logging on and downloading the files to use?
I respect anybody who wants to give something away for free, but I also have to respect somebody who wants to sell it. If you don't want to pay that price then don't and quit whining.
Considering that the consumer appliance vendors are now selling quite a few home entertainment system solutions that have ONLY a DVD player for playing movies OR music. Those CD's are going to rebound real quick because of that oversight.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Paypal? I saw a site that asked for a donation with Paypal. I was inclined to contribute, but Paypal wanted SO MUCH personal irrelevent information (well beyond what is needed/customarily used for credit card transactions) and wanted to set up a permanent account that was linked my credit card info and I just said forget it. I was willing to do a one time thing. I didn't want personal info andmy credit card info all stored in one place, long term, with a company I have no reason to trust (my default is to DIStrust companies until proven otherwise).
Anway, it is ironic to mention paypal, considering that part of this case involves the privacy aspects of having to turn over personal info to play a song on a PC. Just as Paypal requires you to give them lots of info they hold on to, just to donate $25 to someone.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
IBM and Intel both support Linux, but also support fair-use restriction technologies (which subject one to the DMCA) that hurt Linux.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
hehehehe
Doing an end-run around the Manager popping the CD into a player problem is easy, as someone pointed out earlier- bring a laptop with a good CD or state that you are using the CD playback on your DVD player and insist that he test it on several of those. In most cases, the manager will pull the stuff in a heartbeat if it's not proplerly and prominently (No fine print will go here on that) labeled "Only Audio Player Use" because they don't want to mess with the hassles of customer returns on the product- it eats into his store's margins severely. They will then be bargain binned and/or returned (Usually the latter) at that point.
The problem with the having to waste part of a day to screw this scheme up is not a problem unless you actually LIKE them telling you how and when you're going to listen to the copy of the music that you've bought. It's only a problem if you don't care what they do to you. Standing up against BS of this kind is never convienent. Standing up to things like the this crap, DMCA and UCITA has it's price- if you don't value your freedoms enough to be put out for a little bit, then you don't deserve them.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Stephen King did kill John Lennon. There is tons of proof.
when you purchase a CD? I'm a large MiniDisc user, myself. Especially since the advent of MDLP. But lately, at least one out of every ten CDs I pick up has an SCMS copybit, which supposedly makes copying the CD to a MiniDisc impossible. Hell, I /never/ use the CD after the initial MiniDiscing and mp3-encoding. But evidently you aren't /actually/ buying single-user rights to the music contained on the disc. Does anyone know of some sort of EULA by the RIAA? For the time being, I'm glad Sony at least 'includes' little hacks on the players that still manage to let them digitally record CDs, even if there aren't track marks.
Let's not. Charlie Pride sucks ass!
So far, we have been ABLE TO listen to CDs on our computers, etc. Whether this is a RIGHT that we obtain from purchasing a CD is an entirely different issue.
The fact that you have been able to use CDs in this way up until now creates the expectation that this particular new CD (from the same manufacturer) can also be used in this way. The labeling does not do anything to correct the impression.
So the CD violates the "implied warranty of servicibility and fitness" - for the purpose SHE intended when she bought it - and is thus a defective product. Because this was done deliberately, the company has DELIBERATELY shipped a defective product. There's lots of nice stuff in consumer law and case-law about that. B-)
Further, if they put the CD logo on the case (I don't know if they did) it is being advertised as conforming to the Red Book standard - which it obviously does not if the error correction code is not correct. That would be false advertising as well.
Could get VERY interesting.
(IANAL)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
see subject
The shareholder is always right.
What happens when you play a country music song backwards?
Your pickup truck starts working again, your dog comes back to life, and your wife decides to not divorce you.
Let me get this straight:
Now lately, they've added a new twist: They collect information on you when you try to play your CD.
And then you claim to be deceived.
If it's just now that you think you are being deceived, and that the only issue to you is that your CD has some sort of odd protection on it, I'd think that you were more deeply deceived than you think.
Listen to free music. Go to MP3.com, or one of the other various music sites, and download good music. It'll take some sifting, but you'll find it; it's all there.
Learn about propaganda. Learn how it touches your mind. Then steer the hell clear of it! Otherwise, expect more messes like the one you find yourself in.
While you would lose a little bit of quality (as you would converting them to ogg or mp3 anyways) you would have a leagle copy that can be passed on to other people.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
I have several friends who are veterans of the 'big' music industry, and now release their stuff on their own private labels and sell them over the web. They can sell the CD's for less because they cost less when you don't have to pay some old bastard a fat check for him to sit at his desk and sign stuff.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Even then that may not work. Best thing is to always buy CDs from a local (in the same state or within 100 miles of your home) merchant with credit card. If the merchant refuses to refund, then inform your credit card company of the issue and to deduct the charge from your next bill. The credit card company is legally required to do so if the charge exceeds $50. If the card company is going to stand on ceremony with respect to the $50 floor, you could buy several copies of same CD in the same purchase. If one works on your PC, don't unwrap the others, and return them (making sure that unwrapped CDs are returnable under your merchants return policy)
If they all fail, then return them all. This is better, in that if say Tower Records finds themselves frequently eating $50 worth of unsellable (is that a word?) CDs, they'll soon get the hint and either require cash for the copy protected CDs (your hint that to not buy them), provide a warning, or stop selling them.
mp3s sounds like shit. great you can fit 200 songs on a cd, too bad its heavily compressed and very lossy.
you live in the uk or europe right? too bad its not like the US where you can kill someone for stealing your stuff.
Has anyone thought of contacting the big chain stores such as Wal-Mart and Best Buy and requesting that they not carry these CDs? From the retailer's perspective, these are not good business as a sale may be lost either from people passing over the protected CDs or from people returning the CDs. On top of everything, these guys hate it when a music/movie/software company bullies them around.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Suing is trivial, since the cost of a CD is negligible compared to that of a lawsuit.
However, the company is committing a fraud by marketing a device in stores next to redbook-CDs, not stating that it *ISN'T* of the same standard. The personal information part of it doesn't bother me, it's the fact they didn't state the restrictions. If they said, in a little box in the lower righthand corner, the restrictions, on the outside of the jewel case, then fine. let them do that. Just watch them appear on fuckedcompany next week.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
allows the user the ability to register with the record label and download a proprietary encoding of the song to play on their computer.
Which doesn't help you at all if you're on airplane with a laptop.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Put your damn sig where it belongs... I'm tired of seeing it.
just searching on google for mediacloq brings a lot of articles (1450), so it does not seems to be a fair new system?
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
nt.
Okay... I've looked over this and have a concern about the strength of this suit...
We look at the post at politechbot and it says that "Fahrenheit and Music City never disclosed on the shrink-wrap of certain "impaired" CD(s) that consumers couldn't listen to music on their computers anonymously". Yet there is a statement on the outside plus further info on the inside(as mentioned by bigdavex) though neither spot mentions logging as being required. There IS at least some warning...
The Politechbot post says that it "will not work on standard audio CD players found on millions of personal computers", yet the warning on the outside says that "(i)t is designed to play in stardard Audio CD players only"...
Politechbot says that "electronic music files made available for download pursuant to purchase of its CD are proprietary in nature, that such electronic music files will not work on portable MP3 players". The warning on the outside says that "(l)icensed copies of all music on this CD are available for downloading." There is no statement that the files in question are MP3 format.
While I'm still attempting to bend my mind around the PDF file of the actual suit (lawyerese is not the same as English IMOBO), my concern is that there may have been sufficient errors made by the filing attorney to have his case been fatally flawed from the start. What is to prevent the defendant from failing to have the suit dismissed at the start, and by following through to the end, achieving a favorable precedent for this technology?
The existance of a precendent (which all lawyers just love) makes it that much harder to fight this technology since any future suits against it will see the defendants simply standing up and saying "Your Honor, we have a precedant saying X, this suit is sifficiently similar as to be covered by X, we would like it to be summarily dismissed."
Is there a lawyer out there who can put my fears to rest??
Go to MP3.com
Even MP3 is not pure, read this. I like Fabrik Nos (listening to RantRadio.com), and SteveE makes some good points.
PREMIUM ARTIST SERVICE. That's just bullshit!
Someday, Barnaby.
(Equity Lord? The Diamond Age?)
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
If I were here in person I would beat the living shit out of you, and I don't care who knows it, and fuck karma too.
Goat sex free since 2001
What kind of logic is that? DVD's are not the same format as records - of COURSE it won't work. CD-Rom drives played audio CD's from DAY ONE. This record company is changing the rules saying that CD-ROM drives are no longer allowed to play audio CD's anymore. This is like changing gas so that it only works on passenger cars and minivans, and won't work in SUV's or pickups.
Buying a nice CD at the local music place, possibly listening to it at home (I currently use a Sega Mega CD as a CD player), or listening to it at work (I just bung the CD in a CDROM drive and expect it to start playing), or maybe listening to it on the go (I have an MP3 player that plugs into the bottom of my Ericsson T28) should not be a battle between me and the music companies. If you want to lock down your music, fine, just don't expect me to bother trying to play it. Thus, don't expect me to buy it.
I do exactly the same thing. I BUY ($) a CD, then I make a backup of it. The original that I BOUGHT ($) goes in a box. The backup gets used. Pay attention RIAA, I won't pay for a CD I can't backup. If I can back it up, I will BUY ($) it :)
Summary:
Can Back Up = $
Can't Back u = NO $
I haven't been asked for my personal info at the shack for some time now, but there's a computer store chain in Las Vegas that tried to. I told the clerk he didn't need my address and phone number, and he replied "Well what if there's a problem with the card?" and I said the little card authorizer gizmo will tell him if there is, and no other merchants ever ask me for that information. He disappeared into the back room for a moment, and returned with the news that his manager had approved the sale without collecting the personal info. I said fine, then he tried to make a lame joke, "You're not a criminal, are you?" and I replied, laughing, "No, I am not. Nor am I a customer of yours." And I put down the cable I was going to buy, and put my card back in my wallet.
"But I was just joking!" he said, as I headed for the door. "Yeah I know, but it wasn't funny."
I like to think I made an impression on the PFY running the checkout, but I doubt it.
Edith Keeler Must Die
A curious as it sounds, doesn't it strike you odd that someone would sue over an $18 CD?
Nope. At worst, you'd take it back.
You wouldn't sue because what are the damages? At most, $18.
So it is possible the RIAA is essentially suing themselves to get a particular legal precedent? Are they looking for a judge to say:
"Consumers have no right to expect an MP3 of their CD"
I'm just speculating, but this doesn't add up.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
YOUR A RETARD!
That they're going to be using consumer's computer's without their consent to send out information - to some hard-coded server.
:)
If I ever wanted script-kiddies around, this would be the server I'd want them to take down. When the CD doesn't get a confirmation, does it refuse to play? If so, I'd love to sue for them selling something that's unusuable
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
Actually, the fascism comment comes from my thoughts on things that are not necessarily related to the music biz.
However, the mentality that permits more and more of this sort of thing does lead to fascism in my opinion.
This is a deeply held belief and that's why I jumped out at the AC. More politely phrased disagreement I tend to reply to..
The demand that the user identify himself or herself is a little checkpoint, especially when computers are connected to the Internet and the cd can't be played on a cd player.
If this propagates, a known criminal on the run can't listen to his own music collection if it might tip off the police. Or a pirate might get fined off his or her credit card or debit account, like the speeders in the rental car.
The more checkpoints we accept in our daily lives, whether they exist on a computer or at a "sobriety checkpoint," the more fascism we are tolerating in our lives. People who go along with this unthinkingly are at least collaborating with the fascists, because they are a security risk to people who think outside the increasingly tiny legal box.
It's a long conceptual jump from typing your name in to listen to music, to going along with a national ID card/chip. But it's a jump that can happen overnight.
Goat sex free since 2001
No.
Maybe they should have named their company "Fahrenheit 451" instead.
There were a few albums released by BMG in Europe during 2000 that used this protection scheme (one was by Finnish posers HIM, as I recall; the rest was obscure stuff). I was working in a record store at the time, and we had perhaps an 85% returns rate on that album (ie, 17 of 20 people came in and returned it because they either objected on principle or were having problems playing the CD on regular home equipment). BMG eventually re-released most of these albums without the copy protection, and hasn't made any more attempts in that direction that I'm aware of.
Hate to burst your bubble there, but a "wav" file ripped off of a CD is an exact copy a track from that CD. Unless your CD is scratched beyond belief or your ripper is worthless, there will be no loss in quality whatsoever. Any "audiophile" claiming that they can tell the difference between a CD and a "wav" file is full of it. Of course, somebody could come along and point out that you could encode a "wav" file at 8000 Hz, 8-bit, mono -- that would indeed sound worse than a CD (or most MP3's, for that matter), but hey...
Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow.
musiccity records OWNS the musiccity network.
I went looking for evidence. The "about this company" pages of musiccity.com and musiccityrecords.com do not mention any affiliation, but the fact that both the label and the network are headquartered in Nashville supports the assertion. Nevertheless, doesn't the availability of Charley Pride's music on the MusicCity Network make this whole issue a moot point?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I say that we all should go out and purchase this CD (or any other "protected" disk), try to play it on all CD audio players in your house/car/work/etc. If it fails on any one of them take it back to the store and demand a new, non broken disk or your money back. Repeat indefinitly(sp).
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
As I understand it, while file swapping is on the rise, so are CD sales!!
Soon the RIAA will wake up to the fact that their precious "right" to collect revenue on their artists' creations is not in jeopardy from song downloading; in fact free downloading exposes more people than ever to new bands and artists.
And the end result will be that file swapping will eventually be accepted by even the RIAA.
I hope.
Oh, fer cryin' out loud, I never said, nor even implied, that !=MP3 is bad and MP3 is good, and I don't want any legal precedent for the particular format for online offerings. That was the point I told the original poster that he/she missed. I couldn't care less what format they offer as long as they say they're doing it. More to the point, I'd rather they just didn't fsck with the CD in the first place, so if I care to I can rip whatever format I please. I don't rip CDs to MP3 to begin with, because I'm an audiophile, but if I went out and bought an MP3 player and then found that a particular CD couldn't be converted to that format (and the company didn't tell me that up front) I'd have a right to be bent out of shape.
Virg