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• Optiplex desktops
• Latitude notebooks
• Precision workstations
• Precision mobile workstations

• Dimensions and Inspirons have lower-cost outsourced support (last time I checked) while the "real" business models get North American-based support (3 years by default for desktops).
• Dims and Insps have more bundled "shovelware" which some novices appreciate but business buyers abhor. It's also rumored that Dell gets paid by shovelware companies, which lowers prices and makes novice buyers happier.
• Business models are supposed to be more stable and reliable.

From Dell's website A Windows Capable PC has 512 MB RAM and is "Great for... Booting the Operating System, without running applications or games.

I'm not seeing your point. Incompatible hardware is only a problem if you have an existing computer, and you want to run a different OS on it. If you're building the machine, as Dell is, it doesn't make any sense to purposely choose hardware that's incompatible with the OS most people (buying these machines) want to use.

So you're saying that Dell should only be allowed to ship their servers with 100% Linux compatible parts? Presumably you're one of the people who also complained when they were a 100% Microsoft lock-in.

Even if the demand for Linux was decent it would still cost alot of money to go that direction. You would need to setup some kind of support network for linux, make sure that the configuration is setup for linux, and setting up imaging computers with it on the get go. Also all those applications that come with the computer when you buy a dell actually bring down the cost of the computer because they are basicly advertisment for those companies. The cost of buying a dell computer may even just go and stablize to the same price as if you had it come with windows(as I'm sure dell has a deal to lower the cost with microsoft seeing as they do the support for microsoft on their installed software). Also dell would have to make sure that all the drivers would work with linux as well and people would start complaining if the drivers weren't opensource.

It would be nice and there are some options at Dell if you like now. they have an option where you can get a computer loaded with freedos, also its not like Dell is anti-linux, on the server end they sell computers that come with Red Hat. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/sol utions/en/precision_linux?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

The problem is setting up a support network for consumers, and the demand that the consumers will want. Its much easier to add a feature and train the existing support staff or to remove something than to institue a whole new operating system.

You must me living under a rock.

I'm not surprised Inspiron notebooks (even in the Small Business section) do not offer XP as an option because I never considered Inspirons to be "real" business notebooks. Their features and prices are more oriented toward home users.

When it comes to the chips Dell is able to play AMD against Intel. It is in Dell's own interest to have a competition in OS/Office market so that it can play one against another and reduce the cost of computing to its customers so that it can sell more. But Dell buries alternatives deep, makes it difficult to buy the alternatives.

I don't think they are being buried - this link was only one click away from the main www.dell.com page.

I did find a little interesting the big AMD sticker pasted on the outside of the familiar standard shiiping Dell box. I saw this AMD marked Dell box in the trash as I walked to my train the other day. You don't see an Intel sticker on non-AMD boxes.

Methinks these stickers cost AMD more than a few shekels to Mikey Dell.

Because:

(a) just because you have the capability, doesn't mean you actually have to be running X, so there isn't necessary any impact to the system *at all*, but you might find it occasionally convenient to have a reasonable display,

(b) many servers run Windows Server Edition, and good luck running that on your Wyse TTY?

(c) most servers, blade or otherwise, come with the bloody graphics adapter or integrated graphics to begin with? http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/pedge_1955?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~section= specs#tabtop

It isn't the 1970's any more. Servers have graphics cards. They usually come with them, even if often just 2D. Deal with it.

no doubt, thats why Dell is marketing its harware for Vista as great for "booting the OS, w/o running apps or games" (link via this)

Since when did booting an OS become a "feature" of the OS?

My recent decision to purchase a MacBook recently was driven mainly by the fact that a comparable Dell ultraportable was more expensive and had fewer features. Here's the MacBook ($1,674), and here's the Dell with roughly equivalent specs (XPS M1210 - $1.743). The Gateway (NX100X) version didn't even have some of the options like a 120GB drive, and their crappy dvd drive was external, and that one was $1,783.99.

In case those links don't work for everyone, it's the black MacBook with an extra gig of RAM, and the Dell is their cheapest 12.1" with added optical drive, RAM, bluetooth, 2GHz dual core, and 120GB hard drive. Anyone can spec these machines and see that the PC equivalent is about $100 MORE than the Mac. So why does everyone have this knee-jerk 'expensive hardware' reaction? Sure I could get a cheaper laptop in a different class with different specs, but let's compare apples to apples here. Pun intended.

The big water cooled Dell gaming computers, the ones that sell for over $5.000.00 come with XP, not Vista.
Dell says that they are still evaluating Vista, so in light of what is said here, I can see why they would
want to ship these big boxes with XP, so as not to disappoint the gamers.
These machines have 4 GB of RAM, two dual core processors, and a 1 KW power supply, and a water cooling setup.
I'm not going to link to a specific Dell PC here, but you can browse their site to see this for yourself.

Oh I love mac fanboys.

http://ecomm.dell.com/dellstore/basket_retrieve.as px?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&itemtype=CFG&cart_id=1001 624928583&toEmail=sykorakm@uwec.edu

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/6704001/wo/V40zYukRL0AK3VIzQlf8LESCE xB/6.?p=0

There you go, exact same specs (The dell is actually FASTER! and has a better video card!) Mac is $500 more.

That is almost definitely a result of my incident. My screenshots prove that Dell made no indication that XPS was an Inspiron at the time of the theft (and therefore also at the time of the purchase). I have an e-mail where they basically apologized for this issue (if you can cut through the bad English).

You are correct - the page advertising indicates that the item had to be locked. The actual policy can be found at:
http://www.dell.com/downloads/ap/services/Services Agreement/2.pdf

Note that this is much stricter than the policy that I received, where the term "locked" doesn't even appear. Dell have taken "forced entry" to mean that something must have been broken when entering the premises. This was not defined at the start of the policy, so I expect it might be arguable that the force was involved when they removed it from my hands.

Not that any of this should matter if I can prove the policy was not applicable to me. But then would that mean that I invalidate any kind of insurance? Perhaps in that case I could at least claim the few hundred that I paid for insurance.

Dunno about then, but nowadays you find the XPSes by clicking on the "Show All Inspirons" link. So, I'd say it's an Inspiron.

The current CoverGuard info is really explicit about covering the laptop being stolen from a locked facility. Was it not then?

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/ ap/topics/services/en/complete_cover?c=au&l=en&s=b sd

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335

I can get a Mac Mini for $579 (since I work at a university) and the general-public cost is around $600 or a little more. That's actually less than what I've been quoting people lately who ask me to put a decent gaming PC together for them on newegg (I build wishlists and email them to the "clients" who ask for my recommendations).

And that's where you made your mistake. If you compare the Mac Mini to Dell's cheapest PC, the E521, the Dell is over $200 cheaper. It's got a crappier processor, but more HD space.

The fact is that Mac's are more expensive than comparable Windows/Linux machines. That's fine because it's the reason Apple makes lots and lots of money. But the market for more-expensive hardware is smaller than the one for less-expensive hardware. It's very simple. It doesn't matter that the Mac is slightly better because a Windows machine is good enough and, most importantly to people, it is cheaper. If it is able to do what most people want (email, web) then most people will choose the cheapest option. Some people want slightly higher quality and are willing to pay for it. But the fact is Apple can't compete on price because Apple doesn't want to compete on price. They want to keep those big, fat profit margins.

Apples decision to limit their OS to their hardware is what is killing their adoption rate.

If I could buy OSX for my PC...i probably would, just so I could have both. But I don't want to have to spend twice as much on my computer just to run an OS that TECHNICALLY doesn't do as much as Windows does...

It's apples own fault that more people don't pick it up.

Yes, here's a quick comparison between Dell and Apple (yes I know, yeech, Dell, but they are oddly enough virtually the cheapest available here)

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/dimen_e520?c=nz&cs=nzdhs1&l=en&s=dhs
Dell Dimension E520 - Roughly similar hardware to the Mac Mini (except that I did not add the Core 2 Duo - in this I agree that the Mac is somewhat better value)
NZD $1,370.25 (including 12.5% Goods and Services Tax)

http://store.apple.com/0800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/nz store.woa/6384024/wo/FS4nasAjMbhT2OZ6eHRVFbiWLn8/2 .?p=0
Apple Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66GHz - I added the 80GB hard drive to match the 80GB default of the Dell Dimension, which added $160 to the price
NZD $1,228.01 (including 12.5% Goods and Services Tax)

Now, the Dell Dimension includes a 19" monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Yes, you could say that you probably don't need these if you already own a PC, but it CAN be used to offset the cost of the PC by either reselling the extra equipment from the Dell or reselling your OLD equipment. The only part I can really say the Mac Mini shines on is the Core 2 Duo by default rather than as an extra. But unfortunately, it doesn't quite make up for the fact that the total in terms of value just isn't good enough yet. Granted, the price of Apple equipment is NOT helped by the monopoly distributor (Renaissance) of Apple equipment, who up until recently drove prices so high that you'd be paying $2,000 for the same machine. Apple are improving this, but they still have a way to go - and MacBook prices are still beyond a joke (MacBook Pro low end model is $3,799 including 12.5% GST).

In terms of driving prices beyond retail - people seeing "No Reserve" auctions think they're getting a deal at twice retail just because it's "No Reserve" - no helping idiots I guess.

Fanboys - yes I agree. Apple fanboys are NOT the only sort. I've seen Microsoft fanboys too (granted, a lot of Microsoft fanboys can admit that Microsoft does make mistakes. I've seen a quite adamant Microsoft fan basically call segments of .NET complete crap for all the brokenness). I've also seen Linux fanboys (is it just me or are these the most rabid?) To be honest, I agree. Each OS should be assessed on it's merits and suitability for your purpose - I must admit, I really liked MacOS 8 (yes, call me crazy if you like) but haven't had a chance to have a go at Mac OS X - Mac machines are just too damned expensive to get one to play with it. I even admit to liking Vista better than XP. In terms of Linux, Fedora's a crap distribution, I like Debian or Ubuntu (no preference, either is good). I can safely say I don't favour any of the three over the other though - just whichever works for what I want to do (Vista not so good for anything graphics-y, OS8 not so good for anything games-y, and Linux not so good for much of what I want to do - but great for oddball stuff like servers, and secure internet browsing).

I'm probably not the first one to point out the obvious, but you must not have looked very hard.

The problem with using PowerEdge systems is that its not a fair comparison. Apple did sell PowerMacs configured as servers, but vista is a client OS so you should use the dell Precision line. A 7 year old precision may or may not run vista. I know my ~4 year old Precision could not run Vista beta2 due to lack of drivers for the LSI scsi controller. That's a dual Xeon 2Ghz Precision 650 workstation.

Well that was DELL FINANCIAL SERVICES and the bank that works for them. I guess they have applied for credit. Whatever $20- $40per month for the computer. I don't know what kind of offers they have and what kind of anual APR% http://www.dellfinancialservices.com/ I think they are many people like me. I would never ever buy anything from DELL. http://dfs.us.dell.com/service/Static/pres_Identit yTheft.asp/

Dell recently opened a 1200-employee call center in Ottawa. Hopefully more North American call centers will follow.

The N Series ships with out an operating system installed. (comes with a copy of Free Dos on Disk)

Check out the pricing on a new MacBook, which is their consumer-level mobile product. Compare that with an equally equipped Dell, and you will see that the infamous "Apple premium" only exists in their prosumer lines. Apple doesn't sell cheapo crap-in-a-box machines, and as such the lowest MacBook would be considered mid-end by PC standards. Compare that with mid-end PC laptops and you will see that the price difference is almost negligible and sometimes favors the Mac, even.

That is exactly the point I was making. There are no low-end Apple machines. If I want to buy a $300 PC or $600 notebook, Apple isn't even an option. When people compare Macs to other PC's, they usually don't take into account price. Here's a car analogy. BMW cars in general are nicer than Honda cars, but there is a reason Honda sells more. Price is the single largest factor for nearly every person buying a computer.

And I would dispute the fact that the price difference between mid-end systems is "negligible". Here is the link to Dell's PC page and Apple's iMac page. You can see that the E520, which has the same processor, same size monitor, twice as much memory, and 100GB larger hard driver is $150 less than the lowest priced iMac. On Dell's notebook page you can see that the mid-range 1501 has more memory and a larger screen than the lowest price MacBook. It has a less powerful processor, but it is over $250 less! The notebook with a similar AMD processor is still over $100 less than the cheapest Macbook. So you are full of shit about the pricing aspect.

To reiterate my software point when was the last time you ever, under any circumstances, saw a piece of mass-market commercial software that ran on OSX but did not run on Windows? It almost never happens, simply because of Apple's lower market share. There are, however, quite a few programs that run only on Windows (not just games).

Spoken like one who hasn't spent enough time with a Mac... I've seen many people who pick up OSX for 2 hours, get frustrated at the differences, and then proclaim loudly that Macs suck. Many of these same people then spend more time with the system, and in a week or two they're all pretty much die-hard OSX proponents.

This is a completely ridiculous argument. I have used Mac software, and like I said I agree with you that Apple has the edge in ease of use. I like OSX, I'm just not convinced it is such a huge step above Windows as most Apple fans make it out to be. I like a very sparse and unobtrusive UI, and I have my Windows machine set up to reflect that. For this reason, I personally find the Dock to be a huge pain in the ass, although I can see why some people would like it. It's not that I haven't spent enough time with it, I just don't like it. For you to claim to know better than me what I like and don't like is ridiculous.

Besides, my point was that Windows is also fairly intuitive and easy to use, so ease of use isn't as big of a deal for most people as Apple makes it out to be. I have no difficulty doing anything that I want in Windows, so Apple isn't going to drag me away by telling me that it's easier on OSX. I assume most other people using Windows feel the same way.

Check out the pricing on a new MacBook, which is their consumer-level mobile product. Compare that with an equally equipped Dell, and you will see that the infamous "Apple premium" only exists in their prosumer lines. Apple doesn't sell cheapo crap-in-a-box machines, and as such the lowest MacBook would be considered mid-end by PC standards. Compare that with mid-end PC laptops and you will see that the price difference is almost negligible and sometimes favors the Mac, even.

That is exactly the point I was making. There are no low-end Apple machines. If I want to buy a $300 PC or $600 notebook, Apple isn't even an option. When people compare Macs to other PC's, they usually don't take into account price. Here's a car analogy. BMW cars in general are nicer than Honda cars, but there is a reason Honda sells more. Price is the single largest factor for nearly every person buying a computer.

And I would dispute the fact that the price difference between mid-end systems is "negligible". Here is the link to Dell's PC page and Apple's iMac page. You can see that the E520, which has the same processor, same size monitor, twice as much memory, and 100GB larger hard driver is $150 less than the lowest priced iMac. On Dell's notebook page you can see that the mid-range 1501 has more memory and a larger screen than the lowest price MacBook. It has a less powerful processor, but it is over $250 less! The notebook with a similar AMD processor is still over $100 less than the cheapest Macbook. So you are full of shit about the pricing aspect.

To reiterate my software point when was the last time you ever, under any circumstances, saw a piece of mass-market commercial software that ran on OSX but did not run on Windows? It almost never happens, simply because of Apple's lower market share. There are, however, quite a few programs that run only on Windows (not just games).

Spoken like one who hasn't spent enough time with a Mac... I've seen many people who pick up OSX for 2 hours, get frustrated at the differences, and then proclaim loudly that Macs suck. Many of these same people then spend more time with the system, and in a week or two they're all pretty much die-hard OSX proponents.

This is a completely ridiculous argument. I have used Mac software, and like I said I agree with you that Apple has the edge in ease of use. I like OSX, I'm just not convinced it is such a huge step above Windows as most Apple fans make it out to be. I like a very sparse and unobtrusive UI, and I have my Windows machine set up to reflect that. For this reason, I personally find the Dock to be a huge pain in the ass, although I can see why some people would like it. It's not that I haven't spent enough time with it, I just don't like it. For you to claim to know better than me what I like and don't like is ridiculous.

Besides, my point was that Windows is also fairly intuitive and easy to use, so ease of use isn't as big of a deal for most people as Apple makes it out to be. I have no difficulty doing anything that I want in Windows, so Apple isn't going to drag me away by telling me that it's easier on OSX. I assume most other people using Windows feel the same way.

Might want to look again. There is a Windows executable file (under Hard Drive) for updating BIOS for both of those systems.

GX260
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P4_GX260&os=W W1&osl=en&deviceid=162&typecnt=1&libid=1&releaseid =R89214&vercnt=7

GX150
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P3C_GX150&os= WW1&osl=en&deviceid=162&typecnt=1&libid=1&releasei d=R89211&vercnt=6

Might want to look again. There is a Windows executable file (under Hard Drive) for updating BIOS for both of those systems.

GX260
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P4_GX260&os=W W1&osl=en&deviceid=162&typecnt=1&libid=1&releaseid =R89214&vercnt=7

GX150
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P3C_GX150&os= WW1&osl=en&deviceid=162&typecnt=1&libid=1&releasei d=R89211&vercnt=6

You have it backwards. The working link goes to the no-OS machine, the dead link went to the Windows machine. The top-left of the page *always* says "Dell recommends Windows® XP Professional" - ignore it. You need to look at the right panel on the page to see whether the system comes with Windows or FreeDOS.

The link to the Windows mechine went dead for a reason - for an extremely signifigant reason! Here is a (current) link to the new E520 Windows machine page. The reason for the changed link is a changed price, including a correction to the error in the monitor costs I identified in my last post.

The Windows machine is now $50 cheaper. The correction to the monitor cost error means an additional $70 in favor of the Windows machine.

That means a $120 difference in the cost analysis I did. I now figure it, Dell is now giving effectively ZERO discount for dumping Windows.

The Dell n series no-Windows machines are a scam. My previous post basically accepting them was based on the temporarily inflated price for the Windows system and based on the bug that used to be in the website's broken monitor pricing which also artifically inflated the apparant price of the hardware in the Windows system, as I warned about in my last post.

I would now advise that no one should ever buy the Dell n-series. Buy the E520 with Windows preinstalled, the base price (no monitor no upgrades) is a much lower $469, add in any upgades that you actually do want, then call into Dell declining the Windows EULA and getting a big fat cash refund on the Windows tax. As reported elsewhere, someone got an $89 refund from Dell, which yeilds an excellent base price of $380 for buying the Windows version and stripping the OS. If Dell stupidly refuses to pay the Windows refund, someone else brought it to small claims court and got a $199 court ordered refund meaning a base price of $270 lol.

-

The link to the no-windows machine GOES to the windows machine...

The other link goes no-where now...

odd...

Supposed to show the non-windows.... but doesn't...
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs

In fact, a search for E520n shows no results from Dell at all...

Ironically, the above statement is at the top of the page.

Link to customize E520 Link to customize E520n

It was a pain in the ass slogging through 42 pages of Tax Prep software offers and all sorts of crap, but here's the breakdown between the two systems. The E520n is no OS, the E520 is with Windows & the Windows-tax.

(1) The E520n forces you to take a "free" 90 gig HD upgrade. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(2) The E520n forces you to take a CD/DVD drive combo. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(3) The E520n forces you to take an nVidia video card. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(4) The E520n forces you to take a floppy drive. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(5) The E520n forces you to take a 56k modem. Upgrade the E520 for $20.
(6) The E520n allows you to take a "free" recycling program on your old PC. Upgrade the E520 for $25.
(7) The monitor pricing is screwy, and I think they may have made an error. One way to look at it is that the E520n gets a $60 EXTRA discount if you actively select the "no monitor" option. The other way to look at it is that the E520n pays an extra $60 (or more) penalty if it takes any monitor. I took the no monitor option to pocket the (possibly accidental) $60 bonus.

Once the systems are made as identical as possible, the final prices are $509 for no OS and $704 with OS.

So you "apparantly" get a $195 discount for taking no OS. However on order to get that $195 "discount", you are forced to pay an extra $185 for mostly unwanted overpriced crap. The actual dollars-paid difference is a $10 less for taking no OS (you could get the E520 with no upgrades for $519), but the no-OS comes with various "free stuff" thrown in instead of the OS. In my oppinion the $40 for an extra 90 gig HD ain't bad at all, the $30 for CD/DVD drive combo and $40 for 3D video card upgrade are maybe reasonable or a total waste depending, the $30 for a floppy and the $20 modem and the $25 recycling deal (which by default is left unchecked and unused) are pretty much rape. IMO.

So we still can't pull out a pure price difference for the OS, because Dell picks your pocket for an uncertain amount of money by forcing you to take that mixed bag of "upgrades" in order to get no OS, but it does look like you are getting a decent discount by taking no OS. No more games with an "OS-free" computer actually costing more than an identically configured Windows system. However a good chuck of that discount only crops up if you actively select the non-monitor option. If you take the default monitor, or if you switch to any of the other offered monitors, you basically get hosed for $60 for takeing no-OS and a monitor. If the $240 discount for the no monitor option is a mistake, or if you take the monitor, then no-OS is still a discount but not nearly as signifigant.

The other differences betwen the systems that cound not be avoided are that the Windows system comes with 6 free months of AOL (value $0), comes with free Adobe Acrobat reader (value $0), comes with free Corel photo software (value $0), comes with free Yahoo Music jukebox (value $0), and 1 year of tech support. That tech support *is* valuable, bot to you as a buyer and as a cost to Dell. If you take the no-OS option, they stiff you on the tech support. The money they pocket there in revoking tech support is signifigant and takes a signifigant bite out of any no-Windows-discount that they are actually giving you.

There is one final difference that I'm not sure if it is a real difference. The no-OS version lists "10/100/1000 Ethernet" whereas the Windows version lists "10/100 Ethernet". If the 10/100/1000 Ethernet is actually a different and better network card, then that maybe that is valuable addition in the non-OS system. However I suspect... and I may easily be wrong here... that it is the same card in both s

Link to customize E520 Link to customize E520n

It was a pain in the ass slogging through 42 pages of Tax Prep software offers and all sorts of crap, but here's the breakdown between the two systems. The E520n is no OS, the E520 is with Windows & the Windows-tax.

(1) The E520n forces you to take a "free" 90 gig HD upgrade. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(2) The E520n forces you to take a CD/DVD drive combo. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(3) The E520n forces you to take an nVidia video card. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(4) The E520n forces you to take a floppy drive. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(5) The E520n forces you to take a 56k modem. Upgrade the E520 for $20.
(6) The E520n allows you to take a "free" recycling program on your old PC. Upgrade the E520 for $25.
(7) The monitor pricing is screwy, and I think they may have made an error. One way to look at it is that the E520n gets a $60 EXTRA discount if you actively select the "no monitor" option. The other way to look at it is that the E520n pays an extra $60 (or more) penalty if it takes any monitor. I took the no monitor option to pocket the (possibly accidental) $60 bonus.

Once the systems are made as identical as possible, the final prices are $509 for no OS and $704 with OS.

So you "apparantly" get a $195 discount for taking no OS. However on order to get that $195 "discount", you are forced to pay an extra $185 for mostly unwanted overpriced crap. The actual dollars-paid difference is a $10 less for taking no OS (you could get the E520 with no upgrades for $519), but the no-OS comes with various "free stuff" thrown in instead of the OS. In my oppinion the $40 for an extra 90 gig HD ain't bad at all, the $30 for CD/DVD drive combo and $40 for 3D video card upgrade are maybe reasonable or a total waste depending, the $30 for a floppy and the $20 modem and the $25 recycling deal (which by default is left unchecked and unused) are pretty much rape. IMO.

So we still can't pull out a pure price difference for the OS, because Dell picks your pocket for an uncertain amount of money by forcing you to take that mixed bag of "upgrades" in order to get no OS, but it does look like you are getting a decent discount by taking no OS. No more games with an "OS-free" computer actually costing more than an identically configured Windows system. However a good chuck of that discount only crops up if you actively select the non-monitor option. If you take the default monitor, or if you switch to any of the other offered monitors, you basically get hosed for $60 for takeing no-OS and a monitor. If the $240 discount for the no monitor option is a mistake, or if you take the monitor, then no-OS is still a discount but not nearly as signifigant.

The other differences betwen the systems that cound not be avoided are that the Windows system comes with 6 free months of AOL (value $0), comes with free Adobe Acrobat reader (value $0), comes with free Corel photo software (value $0), comes with free Yahoo Music jukebox (value $0), and 1 year of tech support. That tech support *is* valuable, bot to you as a buyer and as a cost to Dell. If you take the no-OS option, they stiff you on the tech support. The money they pocket there in revoking tech support is signifigant and takes a signifigant bite out of any no-Windows-discount that they are actually giving you.

There is one final difference that I'm not sure if it is a real difference. The no-OS version lists "10/100/1000 Ethernet" whereas the Windows version lists "10/100 Ethernet". If the 10/100/1000 Ethernet is actually a different and better network card, then that maybe that is valuable addition in the non-OS system. However I suspect... and I may easily be wrong here... that it is the same card in both s

I wanted to point out there are nSeries notebooks as well. Latitude Dx20 line. http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Sure, this has been around for years, and I swear I've seen it on the Slashdot front page before, too. Still, the only way I know of finding this deal is by typing http://www.dell.com/linux in to the address bar by hand. I just found a tiny link on the side under the heading "Have You Considered?" when you view the Precision workstation line, but nothing on the Dimension product line page. It would be nice if Dell made it a little more pronounced that there really are options out there besides Windows.

http://www1.la.dell.com/content/products/compare.a spx/optix_n?c=pr&l=en&s=bsd It's not just the Dimension line that comes sans-Windows.

Dell has been selling these for a while. At least a year ago they were selling them at prices higher than the same windows version. Somebody must of b1tched.

Here are the Windows/Dimension series & price:
Dimension e521
Dimension c521
Dimension E520

My apples to apples comparison for the e521 N series vs. the e521 Dimension(Windows) series is that the Windows system costs $60 more ($699 vs. $759).
For the apples to apples c521 bundle, the Windows Dimension series costs $40 more ($699 vs. $739). For the e520 series, my apples to apples bundle comes out $170 more for the Windows Dimension ($679 vs. $509).

Of course you can not drop some components on some of the N series (in standard Dell variable practice) like the monitor, modem, soundcard, so if all you want to the raw computer, buying the windows system will probably be a better price. What good is dropping the OS if they are going to shove a bunch of hardware you don't need down your throat.

I had priced them out about 1.5 years ago for some toy/test boxes. For what I needed the Windows versions were a better price for the hardware. I ended up getting a cheaper box somewhere else.

Dell has been selling these for a while. At least a year ago they were selling them at prices higher than the same windows version. Somebody must of b1tched.

Here are the Windows/Dimension series & price:
Dimension e521
Dimension c521
Dimension E520

My apples to apples comparison for the e521 N series vs. the e521 Dimension(Windows) series is that the Windows system costs $60 more ($699 vs. $759).
For the apples to apples c521 bundle, the Windows Dimension series costs $40 more ($699 vs. $739). For the e520 series, my apples to apples bundle comes out $170 more for the Windows Dimension ($679 vs. $509).

Of course you can not drop some components on some of the N series (in standard Dell variable practice) like the monitor, modem, soundcard, so if all you want to the raw computer, buying the windows system will probably be a better price. What good is dropping the OS if they are going to shove a bunch of hardware you don't need down your throat.

I had priced them out about 1.5 years ago for some toy/test boxes. For what I needed the Windows versions were a better price for the hardware. I ended up getting a cheaper box somewhere else.

Dell has been selling these for a while. At least a year ago they were selling them at prices higher than the same windows version. Somebody must of b1tched.

Here are the Windows/Dimension series & price:
Dimension e521
Dimension c521
Dimension E520

My apples to apples comparison for the e521 N series vs. the e521 Dimension(Windows) series is that the Windows system costs $60 more ($699 vs. $759).
For the apples to apples c521 bundle, the Windows Dimension series costs $40 more ($699 vs. $739). For the e520 series, my apples to apples bundle comes out $170 more for the Windows Dimension ($679 vs. $509).

Of course you can not drop some components on some of the N series (in standard Dell variable practice) like the monitor, modem, soundcard, so if all you want to the raw computer, buying the windows system will probably be a better price. What good is dropping the OS if they are going to shove a bunch of hardware you don't need down your throat.

I had priced them out about 1.5 years ago for some toy/test boxes. For what I needed the Windows versions were a better price for the hardware. I ended up getting a cheaper box somewhere else.

um...that isn't the same computer at all, the one in the article had a dual amd64 3800 and that one you linked to had a celeron/pentium 4/pentium d ...very different computers.

ojustgiveitup, a nice name but no I won't.

The visible differences between the open source E520 on the left side of the "open source" page and the E520 on right hand side of the Windoze bargain page are:

1. The "open source" has a 250 GB hard drive, the Windoze a 160.
2. The Windoze version says it comes with a 16x DVD, no such thing is specified for the "open source" version, which may make the FreeDOS install difficult.

Those differences could hardly come up to $230, so you are paying the Windoze tax and then some for the illusion of avoiding it. Same box, same stuff in it, the one with Windoze costs less. What a dissapointment.

If I could not find a cheaper Intel or AMD system or just had to buy the Dell, I'd get the one with Windoze and try to return it ... that's probably what this is designed to thwart ... and use the difference to buy a nice LCD. Given the apparent dishonesty, Dell is going to be the last place I look.

DELL IS TERMINAL.

They have been doing this for some time. I have heard that Linux is known to port badly to these machines.

My research is that you are paying $230 _More_

See http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /dimen_e520?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Unlike XP, the basic sub $500 computer is not good enough to run most versions.

Perhaps you misestimate the sub-$500 computer. Today's $500 box has GeForce 6150 integrated graphics (fine for Vista and even Aero Glass), 1GB of DDR, and an Athlon 64 or Sempron processor.

A Dell C521 (starting at $359) upgraded to XP Media Center Edition and 1GB of memory is $444.

HOME PREMIUM REQUIREMENTS: Any CPU less than 4 years old (even lowly Celerons and Durons) will easily meet the recommended requirements (1GHz from Pentium 3 generation). The GPU requirements (DirectX 9 with WDDM driver) have been integrated in sub-$500 computers for about a year (GMA 950, GeForce 6100, Radeon X300). The memory requirements (1GB) are the last to be updated in most PCs in this price rage, since XP only needs 512MB to run decently. After Vista is officially launched in a couple weeks, I bet all cheap PCs (even those with Vista Home Basic) will have 1GB.

I haven't been there in over a year now, but I believe that English and/or French should suffice.

Sorry there bud, you are quite wrong, but you'll be okay once you get over yourself. See the interior photo #3 at Dell's site here http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/dimen_e521?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs/

Um, no. Do you really want a trial version of MusicMatch, trial version of Yahoo! Games, trial versions of Anti-Virus, AOL Online links, Earthlink Links, eGames links, a crappy productivity suite (well ok this might not count as it's generally a MS product....), basic trial imaging products from Corel, Quickbooks Demo, Roxio demo, Webroot SpySweeper demo...etc...

I'm not kidding either: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DYCWJS3&s=dhs

Is there a good laptop manufacturer who will sell me a "blank slate" laptop?

Yeah sure, but if you look at the link more cerfully and go to cutomize you can choose
"Windows 64 bit" "windows 32 bit" and "no windows". The windows 64 bit costs $42 more. There
is no price difference for "no windows" and "windows 32 bit" which suggests that you
are paying the microsoft tax anyways...

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.a spx/workstations?c=sg&cs=sgbsd1&l=en&s=bsd

And why only RHEL? Isn't that the a version of linux?
I don't want windows, i don't want support from them, so i don't want to pay the
MS tax. That is not possible.

So dell doesn't really do the good thing(tm) here.

yeah, http://support.dell.com/ worked out great when, as i had the dell install CDs in hand, i proceeded to reinstall windows only to discover the NIC wasn't supported out of the box.

honestly, there are times when linux doesn't support things out of the box (wireless cards, nvidia cards etc..). but there are times windows doesn't support things out of the box either. can we stop this pissing contest already?