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How much of the certified and approved software runs on linux? Hosting Windows in a VM with exactly the same network access gives you the same problem, so that isn't a solution.

If you want to reply at all, you should find out which ones will run on Linux and let some people know about it. I couldn't find one.

And, if you're using a Diebold or NCR machine, you're using the OS they push you towards - Windows. Sure it's possible to resist, but you have to educate ATM purchasing when the vendors are saying the opposite. I'll start.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/113997/article.html

Your turn. Replacing the OS is not trivial, unless you think you can walk up to the people who make that decision and just somehow convince them.

Again I repeat - if something is obvious, chances are there are people who have already considered it. It's all there in that article.

Oh wait that's from 2003, so far outdated by now. Okay.

http://www.diebold.com/products-services/managed-services/atm-channel-management/Pages/software-distribution.aspx

Linux does not appear, Windows does.

Your search - "linux" site:diebold.com - did not match any documents.

Your search - "unix" site:diebold.com - did not match any documents.

I tried linux and unix at ncr.com but all of the unix stuff seems to be non-ATM and the linux stuff is POS. So where ya gonna get the software?

Even Diebold makes ATMs. Our online banking systems are pretty damn secure. Not hacker proof of course, but pretty good.
So then why is it so damn hard to make a *secure*, paper-trail-producing and recountable voting system?
This is a fucking easy engineering problem, compared to the kinds of digital financial transaction systems we've already built. Why is it so hard to make a viable electronic voting system?

...Especially when you consider the generally excellent history of security and reliability — and, of course, auditability — in their ATM product line. When they so choose, they seem to be capable of producing robust hardware and software to meet a broadly similar set of design goals. So why should we believe that their history of problems producing accurate and dependable voting machines is the result of mere incompetence?

Thankfully in most districts we have sober and patriotic American companies in charge of our election affairs, unlike the absurd 'open voting' movement who probably want to use discredited and suspect software such as MySQL to tabulate our votes.

Because ATM's are perfect. ATM manufactures are often the SAME as the voting machine manufacturers and they still can't get it right. ATM's and slot machines are successful in use because fraud doesn't have catastrophic effects across the industry, it's just a spot "hiccup". Voting machine fraud means the wrong person is put in office for however long, or even worse, amendments and other laws are passed erroneously.

Here is my idea for an absolutely secure voting machine. Each person who goes into vote gets a token. Made of radioactive material. This material is heavily controlled, and outside the voting machine you have SWAT teams with geiger counters, and obviously anyone wearing a foot of lead is busted.

Voting consists of dropping the Uranium into one of several lead boxes which contain giant magnets to keep someone from trying to alter votes by moving tokens from one box to another. At the end of the day, you read the results digitally with a geiger counter. Every party can be there with representatives, disagreements can be sorted out on the spot with a manual count in front of a multiparty committee. 100% foolproof.

Basically, I got the idea from Bruce Schnier, who observed that it's not such a bad idea for people to keep their passwords written down on a piece of paper in their wallet. After all, people already know how to keep their wallets secure.

The US Military already knows how to keep weapons-grade plutonium secure. Basically, my idea is to just piggy-back on that, to keep voting secure.

A lot of people like to stick with old, low-tech stuff, don't have the will to try anything new. "What about the radiation poisoning" they would no doubt whine. Well I say progress consists in throwing out what's old and "safe" and being bold.

Here's one link
and here's another.

Of course, some people would say that gerrymandering is a cheat code as well.

I actually think we may see more opposition to the open-source voting machine concept from companies like Diebold and other voting machine manufacturers. This harkens to memory the fuss Scott Ritchie raised about Australia switching from an open source voting software to a closed one. There's some great information in that story about the dangers of closed-source voting software, and its impact on what is supposed to be a democratic process.

Because they're required to make ALL ATMs accessible, due to some legislation resulting from a flurry of greedy lawsuits tied to the Americans with Disabilities Act. Want to make a Diebold accountant weep? Ask him how much money the company spends complying with ADA regulations.

Corporate Headquarters: 1-330-490-4000

Here's what I just emailed to their PR department:

Are your executives all on crack or what? You can't sue like a screaming toddler who didn't get the candy when a client chooses your competitor. That's utterly retarded.

Fear and distrust of voting technology are turning voters in to Luddites.

... is the fact that Diebold also manufacturs ATMs. Makes me wonder if my bank account is safe...

I would *think* if someone managed to open an ATM, I think the money would be the first thing to grab. I don't know how much cash your average cash machine holds but
http://www6.diebold.com/gssssps/pdfs/DBD_ATM_Cash_ Mgt_PC.pdf
Diebold machines do employ cash maangement, making sure to keep track of how much is needed.

Besides, and pointed out in other slashdot articals, phishing schemes seem to be most effective.

They've been doing that for years... see http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/

The solution is to physically see your physical vote dropping into a one-way tamper-proof container.

Diebold has already thought of this!

you need to inspect the compiler and other tools as well

So use an open source toolchain, and have it audited thoroughly and then frozen before use. Each change has again to be carefully audited. The federal govt is supposed to have expertise on tap about such things.

You do not control the hardware,

You do if you (the government) bought it and mandated standard, easily verifiable hardware. This is a non-issue with the proper controls, so long as you don't hire cowboys interested in delivering the lowest quality for the highest price to do your work. Start from a known standard base and each change has to be audited. If your machines aren't running the latest, cheapest hardware, so what?

How do you trust that the version you reviewed is the one used?

This is a logistical issue, and is eminently fixable - no last minute patches, all-party oversight, and all changes audited well in advance and then the release frozen.

Paper ballots can be stuffed too, very easily if you corrupt or coerce the officials (how do you think Musharraf got 98% of the vote in the last 'free' election in pakistan?). Indeed you saw this in the last election in the states in Florida with so-called hanging chads being discounted. The issue with electronic voting is not with electronic voting per se (as your objections illustrate), but with the disorganised, slipshod, negligent manner in which it's been carried out in the US at present. It's perfectly possible to design a system that works well and is audited, verifiable, and very difficult to influence, but that's not really in the interest of any parties involved except the voters, is it?

Well I can see the plain paper roll vote record - http://www.diebold.com/nasadmk/cgi-bin/desi_catalo g.pl?section=9&id=170/ - but where are the ones preprinted with the results you want?

"The question is addressed to those enthusiasts that do care and will sort the matter out in a few hours..."

LOL. MOD PARENT UP. I love the feeling of power that technically knowledgeable people have. And it is increasing. (I'm not suggesting that anything illegal be done; I just love the feeling of knowing how things work.)

Talking about power, anyone need Diebold parts? You must have an account with them, but hey, no problem, right? Just tell the local elections boss, "Oh yes, we'll need two of those fazongas immediately." Response: "Well, if you say so, order them now." Check out the memory card at $155.00 for 128 MB. Ohhh, it's "industrial grade". Well, all right.

Off topic: Did you know that George W. Bush had a top-of-the-charts song written about him? The song, "American idiot", was number 1 on the music charts in Canada, number 3 in Britain, and in the top 10 in many other countries. No matter whether you vote Democrat or Republican, you'll have to admit that is amazing.

--
Funniest George W. Bush Comedy Videos

remove the extraneous space to get them to work:
Catalog
access keys

remove the extraneous space to get them to work:
Catalog
access keys

The foundation of Diebold Election Systems' security includes several layers of physical and digital safeguards and multiple audit trails including both digital and voter-verifiable paper audit trails.

Secretary of State Blackwell has denounced any attempt to require a paper trail as an effort to "derail" election reform.

http://www.diebold.com/.......... actually, on second thoughts, that's not such a good example.

lipman NURIT 5000 ATM Manual

NURIT 6000 ATM Manual

The NCR Personas manual is out there somewhere, too. They're just manuals -- the vendors give them away on their web sites...

No but this one is: http://www.diebold.com/ficcdsvdoc/TechPubs/books/T P-820327-001/tp-820327-001-1.htm that one is. Diebold actually makes really good atms in my opinion. At least as far as the end user interface is considered. The ones my bank uses have a lot of nice features: - can dispense change to the penny - can scan/cash/deposit checks - doesn't make you hit OK after you put in your pin (aren't they all 4 chars long?) - doesn't keep your card until the end of the transaction so you forget it

> "Give me a ballot sheet and a pencil any day"

Sadly that won't help you. Can you guess what counts the paper votes in many states? Here's a hint...

The 2000/2004 elections were rigged back in 1973 when George HW Bush was head of the Republican National Committee.

If you need more proof than the picture (which was probably obtained by fast-forwarding the nightly news all the way to the present), Diebold had just opened their electronic research, testing and development facility in Ohio...

Ohio! Think about it, people!

But I'm not entirely convinced that the potential consequences of that one would be very 'isolated/restricted in nature'.

I assume that in India, the manual labor required to count all the paper ballots is cheaper than it would be in the U.S.

Cheaper than free? While I can't speak knowledgeably about the entire U.S. of A (polling issues are handled on a state-by-state basis), I do know that most (if not all) of the poll workers in this country are there on a volunteer basis. Maybe some of 'em are paid a stipend or something ... I dunno ... but I doubt that would make hand-counting any more expensive than buying and maintaining those damned machines. Arguably, it might even be less expensive in the long run.

At any rate, none of the arguments I've seen in favor of touch-screen voting have anything directly to do with the bottom line. Usually it's voter-privacy issues for people with disabilities (who would otherwise need to rely on a "volunteer" to correctly read and mark their votes for them), and language issues for "English-challenged" citizens (who wouldn't be able to read or understand the ballot). The National Federation For The Blind, for instance, has been in and out of bed with Diebold for years over the issue of ballot accessibility.

Sygate defends your ATM with multiple layers of security:

First, the system locks down all electronic points of entry - making them invisible to hackers, viruses, and worms.

Next, it monitors, analyzes, and authenticates any external source attempting to connect to the ATM- and blocks anything the software doesn't recognize.

Sygate defends your ATM with multiple layers of security:

First, the system locks down all electronic points of entry - making them invisible to hackers, viruses, and worms.

Next, it monitors, analyzes, and authenticates any external source attempting to connect to the ATM- and blocks anything the software doesn't recognize.

"It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes" --Josef Stalin

Conservatives are the people alarmed by this administration's willingness to disregard traditional values and re-interpret the constitution.

Too bad that didn't stop them from re-electing him.

This problem arises whenever you need to use software for an application that must be secure. One famous case of tampering was by the CIA; control software for a Soviet oil pipeline purchased in the West was modified to fail upon a remote command causing a massive explosion.

One hypothetical scenario: Diebold decide to act on their CEO's promise to deliver the election to the Republican party by making a small modification to their voting machines. If they can use the techniques this contest is looking for they would write the code so that it would escape even scrutiny by an outside agency (say, the government).

In general, the idea of the contest is to showcase ways of breaking security and therefore perhaps ways to overcome them.

This problem arises whenever you need to use software for an application that must be secure. One famous case of tampering was by the CIA; control software for a Soviet oil pipeline purchased in the West was modified to fail upon a remote command causing a massive explosion.

One hypothetical scenario: Diebold decide to act on their CEO's promise to deliver the election to the Republican party by making a small modification to their voting machines. If they can use the techniques this contest is looking for they would write the code so that it would escape even scrutiny by an outside agency (say, the government).

In general, the idea of the contest is to showcase ways of breaking security and therefore perhaps ways to overcome them.

Your wishes have come true :

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/atms/

Or are you just being funny?

Voting machine manufacturers ARE producing ATMs. The CEO of (Diebold) is the very same that vowed to deliver Ohio to GW.

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/atms/default.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59874,00 .html

http://www.gristforthemill.org/010418diebold.html

http://www.wanttoknow.info/051221votingmachineshac ked

There are some links to chew on. Americans of ALL stripes and affiliations should be OUTRAGED.

If you're a conservative that wants to brush this off - suggestion - Imagine Hillary Clinton's best friend becomes CEO of say... Diebold. Scared yet? Or are you consistant in your lack of outrage?

On another topic I'll throw this out there.. Why not have paper ballots that can be read into computers. Wouldn't you have the best of both worlds? Both a paper record and electronic counting/

Some counties use this: http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/accuvote_os.htm ; it's a "fill in the bubble" type thing. You use a pen.

-Daniel

More witless conspiracy mongering.

Yeah. No US owned and operated software company would ever knowingly commit treason!

Here's a table of what each county uses.
http://www.calvoter.org/issues/votingtech/currentd irectory.html

The Diebold Accuvote-OS is what I was talking about above (optical scanner): http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/accuvote_os.htm

The Repuklicans pro-business interest (in getting funding for election fraud and TV commercials) is behind the changing of patent law to make it a farce. Being anti-science is being pro-Bush. Being anti-science is supporting the patent "reforms" bought and paid for by the special interests fudning the Republikan party. By the way, for those who look to blame others, the House, Senate, Judiciary and Presidency are all over-run with Republican majorities. So, don't go looking to blame others for the problems created by these crooks. If you do, explain who is fixing the problem today???

Thanks, Bush, for being anti-science. You have done so much to help the future of this country. So much.

1. A very targetted voting anomaly, sufficient to swing the election.
2. A broad voting-pattern discrepancy between counties that used Diebold machines, and counties that used paper ballots.

1. It would require the participation, flawless execution, and total silence of thousands of people, - officials in every county in which voter fraud was attempted. And not just the ones who pulled off this nationwide fraud, but also those who were "approached" to do so, and refused. Not one of them could make a mistake, get caught, or speak out. Not one.
2. It would require the non-involved local officials be completely unaware of fraud going on under their nose.
3. By the end of the day, the exit polls ended up being very close to the actual election outcome. In addition, most polls prior to the election showed Bush winning by between 1-5 points. A vast voter fraud effort would require we believe the pre-election polls, exit polls and election outcome were all wrong...despite being almost exactly the same.

• Diebold's election-systems division is "run by a registered Democrat"
• Mark Radke--Director of Marketing for Diebold Election Systems--has an exclusively Democratic donation history, having donated close to $10,000 to Democrats since 1995--when he was with Fulbright and Jaworski--including the legal limit of $2000 to John Kerry in the recent campaign. [2000-2004: $4,250] -- [1995-1999: $5,600]

Apparently he had second thoughts about this.

Take this for what it's worth.

And what are the odds that the ATM machines will get the latest patches if/when they come out?

None, but they'll either be dumped or upgraded. And I for one, welcome our new Diebold overlords in my local bank :D

Help Wanted:
Diebold needs new programmers. If you have what it takes to hide "winning" code in our election machines. Apply to Diebold Careers

Blogs and opinion columns do not exactly make for reliable sources, especially when you're trying to support insinuations of the rather serious charge of electon fraud.

Ok, how about Diebold themselves?

http://www.diebold.com/whatsnews/inthenews/executi ve.htm

Of course it is full of spin, but that they even feel the need to spin it should be cause for very close scrutiny.

Diebold
they are so scientific

Useless, unverifiable... Quote a source, dammit!

This should be sufficient.

If it came from a less biased source I might believe it.

And if electronic voting came from a less biased source I might believe it.

Um. Diebold makes ATMs:

Diebold introduced the concept of a cash-dispensing automated teller machine in 1966.

By contrast, many of today's ATMs are multifunction devices that perform a variety of tasks -- some quite advanced. Diebold makes them all. From simple to complex. And Diebold makes more of them than most any other manufacturer.

You mean like these guys?