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Super-ATMs Being Rolled Out

News.com has an article up looking at something I find interesting and somewhat confusing. The Vcom ATM is an attempt to make people's lives more convenient by adding unexpected functionality to the standard Teller Machine. Besides dispensing cash, new ATMs can fulfull the roles of PayPal (by sending money to people), bank (by cashing checks on the spot), and cellphone store (by selling Verizon services). From the article: "The Circle K and Exxon Mobil machines are far more basic than 7-Eleven's Vcoms, which have been called overengineered. Several dozen customers polled informally outside a 7-Eleven in Winter Springs, Fla., recently said that they had never used the Vcom inside, and one woman who said she did use it once to withdraw cash complained that it was 'confusing' and 'complicated,' and added that she would not use it again. 'There were just too many steps,' said the woman, Peggy Baker, who teaches French in Winter Springs. 'And the $1.75 transaction fee was too much--it was painful.' She said she was not interested in the other Vcom features, which require users to enroll and enter a Social Security number on a touch screen."

270 comments

  1. In case you want to read it by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFA

    1. Re:In case you want to read it by Lispy · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be new here, nobody actually read TFA. Therefore they just dropped the links altogether.

    2. Re:In case you want to read it by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Also it would have nice to know who submitted the story, or did Zonk just find the article?

    3. Re:In case you want to read it by emilv · · Score: 1

      No, he didn't find it. That's the reason why there are no links.

    4. Re:In case you want to read it by greginnj · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure glad the summary cleared up who that anonymous woman was trying out the ATM -- what her name was, where she lived, and what she did for a living. I'd hate to have to drill down to TFA to get that crucial, crucial information.

      --
      Read the best of all of Slash: seenonslash.com
    5. Re:In case you want to read it by lixee · · Score: 1

      You must be new here.

      --
      Res publica non dominetur
    6. Re:In case you want to read it by ThJ · · Score: 1

      Selling cellphone services on ATMs isn't new. Many Norwegian ATMs let you refill credits to your prepaid/"cash" card and offer other related services too.

    7. Re:In case you want to read it by somersault · · Score: 1

      wowee a dupe comment an hour and a half after the original! :p I usually only find those ones funny when they're said to someone with a 4 digit id :D

      --
      which is totally what she said
  2. Are you sure? by Zen+Punk · · Score: 3, Funny

    If only they had it throw up a windows-like dialog box with "yes" or "no" they could get people to sign their live savings over to 7-11 very easily.

    --
    Sleep is futile.
  3. Where's the link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or is that too 'confusing' and 'complicated'?

  4. MacDonalds by Toby+The+Economist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ATMs are the MacDonalds of the banking world.

    MacDonalds don't offer slow food.

    Making an ATM offer slow services is not a good move; they just won't be used, in exactly the same way that very few people would buy a burger from MacDonalds if it took twenty minutes to cook.

    1. Re:MacDonalds by tpgp · · Score: 1

      ATMs are the MacDonalds of the banking world.

      What?

      The 'product' that you 'buy' at an ATM is exactly the same as what you'd get at a bank, but you get it faster.

      The product you buy at MacDonalds is utter crap compared to a real restaurant, but quicker and (for some people) more convenient.

      Are you sure you're not really this guy?

      --
      My pics.
    2. Re:MacDonalds by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 2, Funny
      MacDonalds don't offer slow food.

      The fast food company with the golden arches is called McDonald's not MacDonalds. MacDonalds is probably some Irish pub in Boston that takes 30 minutes to serve up your corned beef sandwich. Either way you're wrong.

    3. Re:MacDonalds by eyegone · · Score: 2, Funny


      Everyone knows that MacDonald's is the home of the Big Mc.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    4. Re:MacDonalds by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      And of the Royal with Cheese.

    5. Re:MacDonalds by izzo+nizzo · · Score: 1

      I wish ATMs had a dollar menu. As in, can I get some fives and tens, some singles please? Or a fifty? Not all my transactions involve a trendily dressed cashier, and I prefer the freedom to spend in increments below twenty.

    6. Re:MacDonalds by rapidweather · · Score: 2, Interesting

      McDonalds has gotten away from their core business long ago by offering too much on the menu. So, they don't have your burger, fries and drink ready when you arrive. What was simple to do in the 1950's is now hard to do.
      Also, the drive in window takes 20 minutes to get to, the driveway up to it is always full. Not enough employees on the production line, those that are there are lost in the details of the now-complicated menu.

      ATM's are reasonably quick. Anything that a customer can get to can get fouled up, namely the deposit slot, sometimes jammed, with a clueless bank totally unaware. Long holidays can lead to the ATM's being essentially out of service for longer periods of time. Improvised signs by helpful visitors to the ATM warn of danger only too often. Lack of scotch tape to stick the sign to the front of the ATM a problem, usually solved by sticking the sign in an almost non-existent crack in the ATM, at the mercy of the wind, rain, and the person that visited the ATM just minutes before you come along.

    7. Re:MacDonalds by Whip · · Score: 1

      And it's slow in more than one way, to boot. The machines themselves -- even for basic functions like withdrawing cash -- are slllloooooowwwwwww.

      We have one at the local 7-11, I've used it a few times. There's several places during the transaction that you'll press an on-screen button, the button will briefly invert to indicate that it's been pressed, and then... nothing, for 5 or 6 seconds. Just sits there on the same screen, no longer responding to user input. Not even a "please wait" message -- just nothing at all. .. and they moved the 'ok' button from the lower right of the keypad (where it seems to be on every other ATM on the planet) to the upper right. Heh.

    8. Re:MacDonalds by LouisZepher · · Score: 1

      As far as normal burgers go, yes, BK, McD, etc are pure crap, however, menu items with grilled/fried chicken filets are decent. Hell, if they weren't so smushed by the packaging, they'd be comprable to what one could get at a sit-down restaurant.

    9. Re:MacDonalds by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      I wish ATMs had a dollar menu. As in, can I get some fives and tens, some singles please?

      The ATMs outside the student union at UNLV were (and maybe still are) set up to dispense fives instead of twenties. If there's a college near you, maybe their ATMs are set up similarly.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    10. Re:MacDonalds by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      McDonalds has gotten away from their core business long ago by offering too much on the menu. So, they don't have your burger, fries and drink ready when you arrive.
      Largely because consumers won't tolerate food that's been sitting under infra-reds for half an hour anymore.
      Also, the drive in window takes 20 minutes to get to, the driveway up to it is always full.
      That depends greatly on a) which store you go to, and b) when you go to it. The McDonald's closest to my house only has a line wait over 5 mins during the 'rush' times (lunch and dinner), which is pretty much true over all the fast food places around here.
      Not enough employees on the production line, those that are there are lost in the details of the now-complicated menu.
      If you actually study the production process - you'll find the complexity isn't really there. A small number of basic ingredients are combined in multiple ways to make multiple menu items.
    11. Re:MacDonalds by wyohman · · Score: 1

      An ordering kiosk at McDonalds would be very nice. I could place my order and pay while waiting for them to call my number. No more moron clerks who screw up my order!

      Cheers.

  5. Even better... by Lispy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only upgrade I would like to see would be if they made it actually return money. But well, that's just me...

    Actually, it's my 20cents. Harhar!

  6. Thanks a lot! by Bueller_007 · · Score: 0, Redundant
    1. Re:Thanks a lot! by humble.fool · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I dislike google news' link creating bit, too...

      --
      Being anonymous is not cowardice.
  7. "too many steps"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Get real - it requires one more step than using any other ATM - the first screen asks what you want to do, you touch atm, then it's exactly the same as any other ATM.

    And if $1.75 is too steep, then I need to move to Florida. I don't recall seeing anything below $1.50 lately at any ATM other than my bank.

    On

    1. Re:"too many steps"? by hattig · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've seen ATMs offer mobile phone top ups for quite a while, which is probably useful if you have a pre-pay mobile.

      Anything else takes too long - when there's a queue you aren't going to live long if you start using slow specialist services.

      I also happen to think that charging people to get access to their own money is a bit rich, but luckily I'm in the UK so all the standard bank and building society cash machines are free regardless of who you bank with. Going abroad is always a shock though, because we're used to withdrawing smaller amounts of money more frequently than large amounts of money infrequently.

    2. Re:"too many steps"? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      We have crap come up on our ATMs here (UK) before we can ge to the cash.

      "Would you like to top up your mobile phone?"

      No thanks, I came to the bank for banking.

      It's only one extra button press but it annoys me every time. It's like having an advert interrupt your television, positively barbaric.

      $1.50 per transaction, blimey. They reduce their staffing levels in the branch and then charge you for the privilege. They tried introducing a charge here but the public refused to let it happen and it was soon withdrawn.

      This whole "one stop shop" idea is getting tremendously tiresome :

      "Did you know Wal-Mart now do car insurance?"

      No shit, you tell me on the TV every hour and there's 6 foot signs outside your sodding shop, piss off!

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    3. Re:"too many steps"? by raju1kabir · · Score: 1
      Anything else takes too long

      Topping up your Octopus card is quick too. And life sucks without a loaded Octopus card. Though I suppose if you want to stay anonymous you're better off recharging with cash at 7-Eleven.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    4. Re:"too many steps"? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      They tried introducing a charge here but the public refused to let it happen and it was soon withdrawn.

      If I remember correctly, banks charge for cash machine usage when they were first introduced, but only if you were a customer of another bank (and you couldn't use any other bank's machines, only ones where your bank had a reciprocal arrangement). They made use of 'biggest network of cash machines' as a marketing device. Then, a group of small banks formed Link, in order to compete with the larger banks; every customer of one of these banks could use any Link cash machine. Then, some of the larger banks joined Link and waived the ATM fees. The others were forced to follow suit or lose large numbers of customers.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:"too many steps"? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Tuesday, September 14, 1999

      Barclays Bank has come under fire from rival banks and consumer groups over its decision to charge customers of other banks who use its cash machines.

      It has warned that the decision will tear apart the Link network which it has taken fifteen years to set up. The Link network is an agreement between some banks and building societies which allows for reciprocal use of their cash machines.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/446 728.stm

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    6. Re:"too many steps"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't cost £1.50 per transaction.

      I suppose they could not run any ATMs. I'm sure that'd get them a lot of business in a country where all the other bank and link ATMs are free to use, and the others are usually located in pubs and shops where you can't be bothered to actually spend the time to get to a free one.

      Toilets surely cost restaurants and pubs money, but they wouldn't get customers if they didn't have them. It's one of the costs of running such a business.

      But sure, go ahead and defend having to pay fees to withdraw money because your bank doesn't have any ATMs within 10 minutes of where you are. It's the American Way, and you'll die before having to stop and think.

  8. Literal Identity Theft by Scoria · · Score: 4, Funny

    enter a Social Security number on a touch screen.

    A masked thief enters a convenience store. The cashier tells him to take whatever he wants, but is surprised when he opens the ATM, removes a hard disk drive, and runs up to the cashier. He shouts, "I own you!"

    The cashier says, "No! I meant that you could take anything but me!"

    --
    Do you like German cars?
    1. Re:Literal Identity Theft by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Do ATMs really store any of that data on the harddrive?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:Literal Identity Theft by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      The ATM's do not, though the smarter criminal will simply be the man (or woman) in the middle of the bank and the machine communication path. No need to go gun swinging at all. Depending where you live, the comms link is usually either over satellite, microwave link, telephone, or fiber.

      Information that you could use to defraud someone is not often sent between the ATM and bank, but the smarter criminal would simply go for bigger inter-bank networks anyway.

      I've not seen many that use encryption, though I'm not a 'smarter criminal' either.

    3. Re:Literal Identity Theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  9. Super-ATM? It exists for ages by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't see how they can be considered "super-ATMs". I'm from Portugal, which isn't a tech superpower, and in here the regular ATMs offer that kind of service since the early 90s.

    --
    Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    1. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Same in Germany and France, most ATMs do this kind of stuff. Obviously for free, not charging you $1.75 for those basic services.

    2. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except, of course, that nobody uses checks anymore and just transfers the money from one bank account to the other. Can anybody tell me an advantage of using checks?

    3. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by megla · · Score: 1

      The advantage is that you can physically hand them off to someone.
      They are still used in the UK to some extent, although not for anything like wages - well, not from a reputable workplace anyway!!
      Generally they're used to transfer small sums to private individuals. For example, I just paid a £50 deposit for a student house next year by cheque. However, I'll be paying the rent by standing order from my bank account. The cheque was just easier for a one time small payment.

    4. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      I can physically hand cash off to someone. For larger sums that wouldn't work, but anything under 100 Euro isn't a problem. I've been given one cheque in my entire life, and that was a somewhat extraordinary situation.

      How often are they used? I find the whole concept fascinating, in a "I didn't think this still exists" kind of way. And why not use cash? 50 pound doesn't sound like a sum I'd be reluctant to carry around.

    5. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you can safely mail checks to people, you shouldn't do that with cash. However, by the time you've written the address on the envelope, found a stamp etc... I dont' see how checks could possibly have any advantage over transferring the money to the recepient's account.

    6. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Zen+Punk · · Score: 1

      Are you guys serious? Yes, we use "cheques" all the time in the U.S. I get my wages in a check, I pay the rent with a check, etc. I do use a debit card for most purchases, though.

      --
      Sleep is futile.
    7. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 2, Informative

      Absolutely serious. I've got a bank account and use transfers for pretty much everything, from the phone bill to electricity to payments to Amazon. My wages get paid into that accout. And for everyday money I use either cash or my debit card, since you can pay with that at most shops. I use online banking regularly, so my bank sees me maybe once a month, if that. And even then I use the ATMs instead of the teller, unless I need something more complicated. I honestly cannot think of a single instance where I'd need to use a check/cheque/however you want to spell it.

    8. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by hanssprudel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are you guys serious? Yes, we use "cheques" all the time in the U.S. I get my wages in a check, I pay the rent with a check, etc. I do use a debit card for most purchases, though.

      Yes, they are most probably serious. I am equally surpised every time I hear americans talk about checks. For me it is a novelty from a past age: you might as well be saying you have to talk to your money scrivener and goldsmith about payments.

      I get my salary via a transfer into my bank account. Even if I had not (for convenience) given my employers my account number for the direct transfer, I would get it as a payment through a clearance service. Likewise I pay my rent through a direct monthly transaction from my bank account, but if I hadn't set that up I could have done via bills paid directly through my Internet bank account (larger companies can send it as an online bill, so I don't even get a paper bill cluddering my mailbox every month). I pay my other bills (electricity, broadband, etc in the same way).

      Beyond that I have a debit card and a charge card for purchases, and cash for small private transactions. What would I need checks for?

    9. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      That's exactly it. So unless bank accounts aren't common, I honestly don't see the point. Especially since checks can get lost in the mail, while transfers are traceable through the bank. It's a security issue.

    10. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by seasunset · · Score: 1

      At least in something we can say we have the best system in the world.

      We can do things like:

      Pay for almost anything like electricity, social security, taxes, mobile phones, tution fees, rent, ...

      Buy a train ticket

      Buy a ticket to most of big shows.

      See the last ~15 account changes.

      Get a temporary credit card number to use on the Internet with a small amount of money (so if someone gets the number after usage, its useless as it has no money on it).

      Do money transfers (not international).

      And lots of other things I can't remember now.

      The bad thing is that sometimes there are people that spend like 10 minutes in a machine paying all their bills.

      The system is uniform across all banks (although most banks also offer their own ATM system in parallel)

      There are no usage fees (altough they are trying to introduce fees if you use an ATM not from your bank)

    11. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by ahillen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Are you guys serious?

      Yes. The last time I wrote a check was probably some time in the end (or middle?) of the 80s, when I had just gotten my bank account and ATMs were not that common. Then I had to fill out a check to get money from my bank account. Since then, I never wrote a check. If I want to give money to other people, I either give it cash or transfer it from bank account to bank account electronically. The later I can do either online, by telephone, or at some ATM-like machines at the bank (I could also go to the bank during the opening hours, of course, fill out a form and give it to some employ/throw it in a letter box). But sending checks? Never, seriously. My wage is transfered to my bank account, my rent is transfered from my bank account...

    12. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by beeblebrox87 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm studying at university in the UK, and there are still occasional situations when one needs to use a cheque. I had to pay my tuition bill with a cheque (since the university is not willing to pay the transaction fees involved in debit card or bank transfer payments) and was paid by cheque when I sold an old computer to a friend, but aside from such rare situations I never use cheques. My parents live in the US and tell me they hardly ever use cheques either, their salaries are deposited into their bank accounts and they pay their bills with their bank's online bill-pay feature. Not sure what all the USians here are talking about, cheques seem to be dead almost everywhere.

    13. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by wfberg · · Score: 1

      Are you guys serious? Yes, we use "cheques" all the time in the U.S. I get my wages in a check, I pay the rent with a check, etc. I do use a debit card for most purchases, though.

      Yeah, these guys are serious. Just to give an example; the "Eurocheque" was abolished in 2002 (along with the introduction of the Euro coinage) to not much fanfare; most countries had already given up on the scheme in the 1990s. Currently, no bank in my country (be it a small country; The Netherlands) offers cheques. The vast majority of point-of-sale transactions are by debit card, except for small amounts (EUR 10) or with merchants who don't have a debit card terminal (which is getting increasingly rare, even pizza delivery boys are getting issued with mobile terminals).

      From the 1990s on, checks were used mostly because, unlike in the US, they were "covered" up to EUR 500; they didn't bounce - so people would use them as a line of credit those last few days in the month before your wages come through.

      Bills are still invoiced with a preprinted money-order attached, but it's more convenient to just type over the ID number on your bank's e-banking site, or to tell the company to use direct debit.

      All recurring stuff just gets credited and debited to my account automatically.

      Actually, a lot of Europeans (myself included) get a bit puzzled when USians mention checks all the time. Or with the concept of a "checking account". Why would you want a checking account? Nobody uses checks, and you get a debit card and internet banking with your regular account right? "Billpay" services would be even more alien to Europeans..

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    14. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by hanssprudel · · Score: 1

      I had to pay my tuition bill with a cheque (since the university is not willing to pay the transaction fees involved in debit card or bank transfer payments)

      People who make such arguments are usually fooling themselves (especially for large, rare transactions like University tuition). The truth is that the processing time of handling all the checks probably costs a lot more then the transaction fees would. Unless they are making the grad students do it or something, your university would be better off with electronic transactions.

      Same thing with stores that won't accept (or charge a surcharge) for paying with a card. In fact the costs of cash handling are much larger then what the cc companies charge, they are just not as visible.

    15. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by RandomJoe · · Score: 1

      They are still fairly common, although it seems to be dwindling in some areas.

      My pay is deposited directly to my account, but the company still sends me a "statement" that is identical to the checks they used to send, except it now has "Non-Negotiable" stamped across it. I use online bill-paying for the most part, but two of my bills are actually mailed by my credit union as checks instead of EFTs! But it's no fee to me, and I don't have to buy stamps.

      Anymore I still write one check per month - for the mortgage. If I were just paying minimum on it, I would pay it online as well, but I'm paying it down with a large and variable dollar amount each month so I prefer to write a check on which I can detail how I want the transaction applied, along with the payment slip from the mortgage company.

      One reason I took so long to use online or auto-payment is that so many companies and utilities here have such an idiotic way of viewing the "service". While THEY should be hoping to get everyone using it since it lowers their costs not having to deal with the flood of checks each month, instead they charge fees "because it's a convenience to the customer". Fortunately, most have figured this out and dropped the fee, and now that my CU provides free bill-pay (used to be $5/month!) I can pay anyone that way.

      I am curious - several people mention just transferring money directly between accounts. So if you are doing a private sale with someone, not at a store, for - say - $2000, does the payee give you their account number to do the transfer? Or is there some mechanism in place to handle this we don't have? I wouldn't care too much for handing out my account number to people! My debit card doesn't use my account number, but I can't use it in a private transaction. Wire transfers were also mentioned, but when I checked into doing that it's a royal pain at least with my bank. (Requires I physically go there, first of all! ;)

    16. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by kemichail · · Score: 1

      I'd say cash is unpopular in the U.S., almost none of my friends or aquaintainces ever pay with it. Debit cards seem most popular. If you pay attention to the news, you'll notice that anyone here who pays for anything that costs more than a couple hundred in cash raises 'terrorist' or 'criminal' suspicions.

      --
      --- This space reserved for the day when I have something witty to say.
    17. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      I bought a used car only a few months ago. The seller gave me her account number, I transferred the money, and as soon as it reached her account we had it settled. Banks will undo transfers for up to six weeks, so as long as you check your list of transfers regularly, the risk is minimal. In cases like a car sale I'd have no qualms about it. I know who the other party is, after all, so if my number is abused afterwards, I know who is responsible. And at least in my country you cannot draw a transfer from another account without the account owner's signature.

    18. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by megla · · Score: 1

      Cheques are traceable.
      Every cheque has is unique (a combination of a specific cheque number and the account number), and the cheque number will appear on a bank statement when the money is taken. They can also be cancelled if you think you've issued one in error.
      So in short, with my previous example, the landlord cannot say he hasn't recieved the deposit from me, because I have a bank statement with a record of the cheque which I gave to him being paid out.

    19. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      although not for anything like wages - well, not from a reputable workplace anyway!!

      That's interesting; in the States the majority of small businesses still pay their wages via business checks. Some of the tech savvy ones do direct deposit, but the impression I get (from various employers) is that it's more trouble than its worth to get the payroll information to the bank, rather than work it out in a few minutes on an Excel spreadsheet and write/print checks.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    20. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      You get the same benefits with bank transfers, though. So I wouldn't consider this a benefit of cheques. Unless it's a matter of writing them out on the spot, I honestly don't see the advantage. Especially since you need a bank account anyway.

      Culture clash, I guess.

    21. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by dreemkill · · Score: 1

      i agree, this is "news"? my credit union offers ATMs that do this same sort of thing (exception of the paypal sending, at least that i know of) for years.
      at their ATM, i could take out 12.76 if i wanted to.. then feed a check into the reader, which would then scan the document, you confirm the amount and voila.

      --
      dreemkill.
    22. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depends on your account, some banks have accounts where you have to pay a few cents for making transactions on these machines.

      BTW, the transaction systems 'round here run on Windows ME.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    23. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by wertarbyte · · Score: 1

      Banks will undo transfers for up to six weeks, so as long as you check your list of transfers regularly, the risk is minimal.

      There is a slight misconception here, at leat here in germany: If you initiate the transfer to another account yourself ("Überweisung"), the transfer cannot be undone by the bank. But if you give someone the permission to retrieve money from your account ("Einzugsermächtigung"/"Lastschrift"), you can cancel that transfer up to six weeks after it happened. To pull money from other people's accounts you need to have a special contract with your bank, so they will get suspicious if there are a lot of transfers bounce back.

      --
      Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
    24. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I had to pay my tuition bill with a cheque (since the university is not willing to pay the transaction fees involved in debit card or bank transfer payments)

      I think there we've got the culprit, transaction fees are usually less than 20 cents, free for some account types and paid by the sender here in Germany. I.e. they wouldn't have to pay anything to receive your money.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    25. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With some banks, you can also do transfers on the spot with your WAP/XHTML-capable cellphone, essentially the same as over their websites or "home banking" applications.

    26. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by SlamMan · · Score: 1

      At scale, sure, but if you only do two or three credit card transactions a day? Or if the average purchase is below $10

      --
      Mod point free since 2001
    27. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      Badly phrased on my account; thanks for correcting and clarifying. Although in my experience banks will undo even transfers you initiate yourself if you request it within a few days and have a good reason (like a mistyped account number).

    28. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...]does the payee give you their account number to do the transfer>

      Yes, where's the problem? Whenever you hand out a check, it has your account number printed on it. Over here, if someone withdraws any amount from you account, you can (by law!) revoke this within 6 weeks after you have been made aware of this. Therefore, you have to check you account statements regularly, and if you don't do that yourself, your bank will mail them to you (for a fee). You don't even have to give a reason to cancel such a withdrawal, and the withdrawing party will have to pay a fee of about EUR 10. You can also partially cancel such a transaction, e.g. if your dispute the amount your phone company charged on your last bill.

    29. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      That's changing. Federal Reserve Payments Study

      In the mid 1990's, nearly 50 billion checks were being processed in the US. It was down to 37 billion transactions in 2004 and is steadily dropping. Things like debit cards, increased usage of credit cards for smaller purchases, increased usage of ACH transactions for payroll and billing, online billpay (where many items are transacted via ACH), and the conversion of checks to ACH items either at the point of sale or at large billing houses have all contributed to this.

      With the advent of Check 21, any check that you may write will probably not arrive at your bank as a physical item (unless it is deposited there).

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    30. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by TykeClone · · Score: 1

      Electronic payments are even more traceable - they don't require a human to read someone's handwriting because all of the information about the transaction is part of the transaction (including the trace numbers).

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    31. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by TykeClone · · Score: 1

      Payroll itself (following all of the rules and making sure that everything is done correctly and on time!) is cumbersome for small businesses. Creating and transmitting an ACH file shouldn't be.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    32. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Council · · Score: 1
      Are you guys serious? Yes, we use "cheques" all the time in the U.S. I get my wages in a check, I pay the rent with a check, etc. I do use a debit card for most purchases, though.


      Yes, they are most probably serious. I am equally surpised every time I hear americans talk about checks. For me it is a novelty from a past age

      I'm a young american who's had a checking account for four years now, and the only thing that's required me to write a physical check was paying the rent on an apartment I had. I remember first getting a starter checkbook with my account and trying to buy something with a check from it, but it was sort of . . . novelty-ish, with pictures on the checks, and the wal-mart clerk just looked at me strangely, called over a supervisor, and then said "uhh, we can't take this" as if it was the strangest request they'd ever had. For the next four years, I didn't even bother trying to use checks, and it wasn't a problem until I had to pay for my rent. However, I haven't done much bill-paying; I think you can do a lot of that with checks,
      --
      xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
    33. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by hab136 · · Score: 1
      I remember first getting a starter checkbook with my account and trying to buy something with a check from it, but it was sort of . . . novelty-ish, with pictures on the checks, and the wal-mart clerk just looked at me strangely, called over a supervisor, and then said "uhh, we can't take this" as if it was the strangest request they'd ever had.

      Starter checks aren't accepted at most retail locations. They'll work fine for bills though. Regular checks (with your name pre-printed, etc) work fine.

    34. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding me? The costs of cash handling are almost nothing, maybe an hour of a person's salary. A check a little bit harder to process, but still doesn't compare to the rates that the credit card companies charge me for the processing! It does not cost $400 to process $10,000 cash. If you're telling me it does, you are absolutely out of your mind. The fact is, both you and the store you are paying at is paying a HUGE convience fee for, well, just that, the added ease of using a credit card. Its easier for the customer to pay with a credit card then cash since its easier to carry around, not as big of a deal to lose (and harder to for that matter), and the store doesn't have to worry about a robbery of that funds. Well, except from the credit card companies. If the credit card company doesn't get paid from a customer, its not like the huge fees we pay will cover that, they'll also hold that money from me because they cannot take a loss anywhere. Credit cards are only cheaper for the credit card companies. For everyone else, you're paying a large premium.

    35. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, my school in California only accepts direct money transfers.

    36. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 1

      If you have to go into your bank once a month, you're not really as cool as you think you are. Maybe a couple times a year, and maybe haven written about 4 checks in a year. Maybe to the point where you've forgotten which corner of the envelope the stamp goes in.

    37. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Main+Gauche · · Score: 1

      "Actually, a lot of Europeans (myself included) get a bit puzzled when USians mention checks all the time. ... Why would you want a checking account?

      Some reasons...

      on the customer end: While my check use has dropped by 75% or more over the past decade, some people (like the grandparent) have not taken advantage of automatic debiting, etc. Thinking outside the /. demographic, think about the elderly (grandparents, literally this time). I cannot blame people who lived through the depression, or world wars, for not moving their money around in cyberspace.

      on the business end: Some businesses which could accept automatic payments just don't bother to set up the service. As an example, our condo building takes monthly assessment payments (maintenance fees) by check only. Why? Because we are a small building, and no one has bothered to go to the bank and set up an automatic payment system. Furthermore, it would cost us some fee to do so. So of the 15 checks I write per year, those are 12.

      Anyone who would rent an apartment from a small "mom and pop" building would also have to pay by check or cash. Our banks simply don't offer the service cheaply, to accept payments automatically. As an economist, I am not surprised by this. The US banking industry has consolidated through many buyouts; now there is much less competition. So why should they offer their customers such services if they don't have to? (He said sadly...)

    38. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Isn't that like in the third world or something?

      Do they have TVs there?

    39. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by smoker2 · · Score: 1
      Beyond that I have a debit card and a charge card for purchases, and cash for small private transactions. What would I need checks for?
      Well, like you I do most of my banking online, and use my debit card or use an ATM for cash.

      But ...

      When there is still a week to go to payday, and I have no money left in the bank, a chequebook and guarantee card is most useful at the supermarket/petrol station. By the time they've banked the cheque and 3 days processing time has passed, I have money in my account and the cheque clears. Sometimes it takes sainsburys 12 days to clear a cheque (depending on when you use it). I think they only do the banking on fridays, so if you pay by cheque on a monday, it doesn't get banked until friday, then nothing happens until monday, and then 3 full days processing starts from tuesday meaning the money comes out of your account on the friday.

      Quite handy ;-)

      IIRC, a cheque (check) is as good as cash in the US, so you can go to the bank and draw against it immediately. Not so here in the UK. The bank has to get their interest off it first.

    40. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      I wouldn't care too much for handing out my account number to people!

      At least in theory, you are supposed to be able to publish your account number and sort code (the two bits that uniquely identify your account). Anyone can then deposit money in your account. If they want to take money out, however, they will need some proof of ID (debit card, online banking ID, etc). I frequently use this kind of transfer to pay when I owe someone more than about £10.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    41. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Cash is a risk, whether you're posting or carrying it around. Even if you're fine with £50, what about if it's a few hundred? Plus there's the fact that with a cheque, I don't need to have the cash on me. There are certainly advantages of using cheques over cash.

      In some circumstances can be easier to just write a cheque rather than trying to set up a money transfer. There's also the issue that, rightly or wrongly, most people haven't bothered to set up online banking yet, for whatever reasons.

      So yes, for personal money exchanges, cheques are very common.

    42. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by wfberg · · Score: 1

      Actually, my question was rhetorical ;-)

      For Europeans, a "checking account" as such doesn't exist. You just have a "regular" account, and some of those (in some countries) come with cheques, or you can apply for them, in much the same way that you can get/apply for a debit card, overdraught, etc.

      My point was; to Europeans, the need for a checking account is nil, so we look upon USian's use of language w.r.t. "checking accounts" as quite quaint. This doesn't negate that there are good reasons for having one (in the US), just that these reasons do not form a part of our daily experiences.

      As for paying your block assocation/condo fees; I'd much rather pay those via scheduled money transfers. Much less hassle. My uncle runs one of those condo associations, and he just logs into internet-banking, downloads the statement into presumably excel, and sorts out which people haven't paid.

      The EU is running a tight ship in Telecommunications and Banking (less so in utilities, but still, no European version of Enron); otherwise, banks would be working as inefficiently as they could get away with. Only because of EU enforcement actions do we have good cross-border electronic funds transfer as well.

      You could use ACH; it's pretty expensive though, $100/yr plus $35/month plus $5 per batch.. (at least here). A comparable service from a Dutch bank is free upto 1000 transactions, 9cents per transaction thereafter (but there are bulk discounts). Only thing is, it's not cross-border.

      Credit cards remain an oddity in Europe for many of the same reasons checks do. Direct debit, scheduled transfers, and debit cards fill too many of the blanks, and recently banks have started to do better at internet transactions too (they're now ganging up together so you can pay at webstores via a redirect to your regular internetbanking website).

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    43. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by uncqual · · Score: 1

      WRT rent... I live in a large apartment complex owned by one of the largest multifamily dwelling unit REITs in the US. The office staff and managers (who change about every 18 months) are incredibly careless - for example, they screwed up my balance once to the tune of about 15 dollars and it took me four visits to the office, one meeting with the on-site manager, three interactions with corporate "customer service", and three phone discussions with the regional VP to actually get this sorted out (even though during the first contact and all subsequent contacts, they acknowledged it was their error).

      Needless to say, I don't trust them with access to my bank account to "pull" money since a misplaced decimal point could create a messy problem for me to sort out. Another option is to 'push' money to them via bill-pay, but I can't trust them to notify me if their account number (at a bank other than mine) changes or some similar event causes the transfer to fail and my first indication that this happened being a 'three day notice to pay rent or quit' on my door (which, since I'm often out of town, I might not see for a week or more).

      So, the only real option I have is to pay "in person" at the office and get a signed, numbered, paper receipt at the time of the transaction - and the only form of payment they will accept in the office is a check. Once I have the receipt (which also includes my check # and I also keep a scan of the check), no matter how badly they screw up, they end up paying whatever it costs me to fix it (except for my time, but that's why one uses a lawyer for such things and takes then advantage of the "loser pays legal expenses" clause in the lease - this clause cuts both ways!). So, I write 12 checks a year...

      (Hint to those who accept the "your canceled check is your receipt" line - if they misplace your check, you're wedged since it never gets cashed and you never get your 'receipt'! At least in California, you have a legal right to a receipt at the time you provide payment - exercise that right.)

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    44. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't been to a physical bank in over 4 years. There's simply no need to, I can do anything either online or at the nearest ATM. Just last friday I payed my internet & cable tv bill (same provider, but also last time I'll pay via ATM, I now switched to automatic bank payment like the rent, electricity, gas & water) plus some books I bought from an online store -- though I could have used the credit card for the books, I just didn't feel like getting up to fetch the wallet, and choosing the "pay via ATM" option spewed all the numbers I had to input on my bank's website to make the payment (instead of actually having to walk to a physical ATM machine), so I just went for the least effort route, cut 'n paste.

      ATM's are convenient and have most of these facilities since I remember (since the late 80's at least), but I find myself using them less and less lately for purely banking purposes. For that purpose I use them exactly 4 times month -- once each week to withdraw a couple of 10 euro bills or so, to pay for the small stuff I might need during the week and for which there's either no means of electronic paymentm or using the card is actually slower than just coughing up a few coins (buying the newspaper in the morning, a cup of tea on some random café or tea house, ice cream, soft drinks from vending machines (and even those are starting to be payable by SMS), etc).

      Aside from that, I use the ATM machines mainly to top up my pre-paid mobile (the one not paid for by my employer) once a month, and to buy concert tickets. For the (rare) concerts the tickets aren't purchaseable by ATM, I just buy them online and pay with the credit card. And then I use the ATMs for other random things, like last Wednesday, for instance. I checked my mailbox (the snail mail one) before leaving for work that day and noticed I had received a letter from ViaVerde (automatic road toll payments and such), telling me I had to pay the initial fee to activate my identifier. At lunch hour I used the ATM on the corner from work and now I can use my ViaVerde to pay on the fly for road tolls -- here in Portugal all toll roads have special lanes called Via Verde, or Green Lane, where you don't actually have to stop and pay the toll, the little plastic box stuck to the inside of your windshield identifies you every time you drive through, and the toll is automatically debited to your bank account. And, best of all, the ViaVerde concept is expanding and now even works for car parks (drive in, park the car, do your business, drive off, don't bother paying at the exit) and some gas stations (drive in, fill up, drive off, don't bother paying at the exit).

      So, these days, aside from small change, I don't actually carry money, and don't even use the card all that often. Everything is starting to get really automatized.

    45. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      Going to the bank once a month is a matter of depositing a lot of coinage (grandmother-related) and of currency exchange. Once the new EU members adopt the Euro, that won't be necessary anymore. It's the most convenient way of money exchange for me, given that my bank is just around the corner.

      And, out of curiosity, since I honestly have never encountered checks as regular payment - you slip them into envelopes and then simply mail them out? What happens if they get lost in the mail?

    46. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by bohemian72 · · Score: 1
      I wouldn't care too much for handing out my account number to people!

      That account number is generally found on the bottom of those checks we still use frequently. The routing number as well so every time you use a check you're giving the person the information they'd need to wire you funds.

      --
      The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
    47. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by volsung · · Score: 1

      Uh, then they get lost. You don't lose any money, since nothing is deducted until the check is cashed by the party listed on the check. You will of course have to deal with the late fee from the company you were supposed to be paying. Mail lossage is pretty rare, except for localized incidents of mail theft from personal mailboxes. I've been dropping checks into the sturdy blue US Postal Service mailboxes for years now, and I haven't had a single one get lost. Ever.

    48. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      If you have to go into your bank once a month, you're not really as cool as you think you are. Maybe a couple times a year, and maybe haven written about 4 checks in a year.

      The last time I had to go into the bank was to tell them their ATM had eaten my card. :-( Life without an ATM card sucks, as you end up either paying for everything with a credit card or you're stuck waiting in line at the bank, making an old-school withdrawal.

      I've written maybe one or two checks in the past year. The IRS gets one every April, and there are maybe one or two people running events who didn't bother to set up a PayPal account who end up getting paid with a check. If those problems were fixed and if my employer offered direct deposit, I'd only have rebate checks to deal with every once in a while.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    49. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      Anyone who would rent an apartment from a small "mom and pop" building would also have to pay by check or cash. Our banks simply don't offer the service cheaply, to accept payments automatically.

      I'd think that most banks will let you use bill pay to send money to anyone. (Wells Fargo does, anyway.) The storage place next to me is a mom-and-pop operation, and they get paid through the same bill-pay system as the utilities and everyone else. If a recipient isn't set up to receive payments electronically, the bank cuts a check and mails it. The transaction takes five days to go through instead of three, but it works.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    50. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US banks put a hold on deposited check until they clear. Once they clear you can access the money.

    51. Re:Super-ATM? It exists for ages by wertarbyte · · Score: 1

      If you mistyped the account number, the transfer will most likely bounce. But a bank cannot undo a transfer once the money has reached the destination bank; You have to contact the person who received the transaction to get it back from there.

      --
      Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
  10. I'd use it if... by SlashSquatch · · Score: 1

    it served up a whiskey sour. (I cash my paycheck at the bar.)

    --
    Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
    1. Re:I'd use it if... by j79zlr · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised bars cash checks for less than $100.

      --
      I'm not not licking toads.
    2. Re:I'd use it if... by SlashSquatch · · Score: 1

      I guess you could make it a regular thing then. Too bad they quit taking my food stamps

      --
      Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
  11. nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by toomanyhandles · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can they set them up to handle the voting booth tasks? It seems the same companies that make these reliable, traceable units, just can't figure out how to make a voting console properly. Merging the two could solve the USA's current problems with (apparantly) rigged elections.

    1. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by sjg · · Score: 3, Funny

      That will never happen, unfortunately. I recently asked a friend why we don't just hold elections online, surely that could be done. To my surprise his immediate response was well thought out and eloquent, I won't do it justice, but the jist is.. If citizens can very easily just vote on issues from home, then why is there a need for decision makers in government at all? So once you allow everyone to vote from home, you open yourself up to that. Once you remove all the decision makers, you end up with a government totally run by committee (in this case, the American people). Not only would this not be a good thing (as anyone who has heard a "designed by committee" software engineering crack can understand), but with the racket that US politics has become, the politicians and those financing them will never allow this to happen. It becomes too hard to stack the deck in your favor.

    2. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1
      Merging the two could solve the USA's current problems with (apparantly) rigged elections.

      Voting at a cash dispenser seems a bit dangerous. What if a vote for a certain party causes an "accidental" buffer overflow and spits out money?

    3. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by toomanyhandles · · Score: 1


      I'm not sure this would be the same as voting from home or online...

      In many states now, people drive to the electronic voting booths that currently do not work (recall the posting here from a few weeks back, looking at the Florida votes, some were cast at midnight, some days ahead, etc).

      I'd drive to a system that worked, paper or electronic. In fact, I have to already. I just want the damn thing to work, and not continue to fake and rig elections.

    4. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by toomanyhandles · · Score: 1


      umm...

      I know: it's good patriotic capitalism. Cutting out the middleman etc. Those middlemen always get caught, squeal, and ruin everything for the rest.

    5. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by hey! · · Score: 1

      Can they set them up to handle the voting booth tasks? It seems the same companies that make these reliable, traceable units, just can't figure out how to make a voting console properly.

      I hadn't really thought of this until your post prompted me, but this is the theory under which you'd buy a voting machine from an ATM company isn't it? You would think that designing a system that can give away cash and take money out of people's accounts without human intervention would give a company the appropriate attitude and skills for creating voting machines.

      The difference though is that a buck is a buck, and ten bucks is always worth ten times as much as one buck. Many substantial financial systems are successfull with only rather flimsy security: the money to be made running them dwarfs the cost of absorbing the fraud. Tightening the system's security would either cost more than the fraud, make the system harder to market, or both. So you rake in the dough, shell out a bit here and there for fraud, and jump on the people doing the fraud when you can catch them. Companies have made massive profits on ATM systems which were shipped with enormous security vulnerabilites. The whole credit card system is the same: trust is a good bet because the volume of legitimate transactions dwarfs the volume of fraud.

      Voting is much different than this. All votes are not equal, and ten votes aren't always worth ten times one vote. For example in a tight race, a lost vote is worth a lot more than in a landslide. In a multiway race, switching votes between the top two candidates has a much greater impact than switching between #3 and #4. The US presidential election is the greatest example, in which a handful of votes can swing the entire electoral weight of an entire state.

      It follows that voting has a MUCH HIGHER level of security required in voting than in dispensing cash, because a tiny amount of fraud can have large consequences. It's the kind of thing you really can't afford to get wrong. The kind company you need is not the one that knows how to make the kind of trade offs you need to make a practical financial system. You'd want the kind of company you'd trust to do things like design a system to secure sensitive military data transfer.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you could set them up at local 7-11 and gas stations, increasing voter turnout!

      "Thank you! Vote again!"

    7. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by distilledprodigy · · Score: 0

      Yes, I'd very much like the companies that charge me anywhere between 1.50-2.75 to withdraw my own money to run voting booths. Actually, I know that by withdrawing from another financial institution I'm actually paying for their supply-- the people who stock the money...

    8. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by toomanyhandles · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It follows that voting has a MUCH HIGHER level of security required in voting than in dispensing cash, because a tiny amount of fraud can have large consequences. It's the kind of thing you really can't afford to get wrong. The kind company you need is not the one that knows how to make the kind of trade offs you need to make a practical financial system. You'd want the kind of company you'd trust to do things like design a system to secure sensitive military data transfer.

      Perhaps a little reminder is in order on this thread.
      The exact same companies who say it is "impossible" to build voting machines that also provide a paper trail to allow for recounts and validation, are the exact same companies who MAKE ATMs.

      You know, those machines that give you a precise and verifiable paper record of your transaction and account balance, the instant you adjust it.
      Heck Australian voting machine designers looked at the US systems and laughed at us in disbelief, saying that the only reason to implement a system in this fashion was to purposefullly allow it to be cheated.

      All the fuss over the Florida e-voting; Diebold and Windsor/Nixdorf saying "not possible" re: paper trails; the ATM down the street that I use monthly, has those same companies name and logo on it. Let's just roll the voting feature into the banking one then, since the banking one works and is eminently more traceable and verifiable than the current voting machines.

      You stated in your post that the security needed for voting is far stronger than that for money. I agree; but at this time, there is no meaningful security implemented for electronic voting, all the data shows that the system has been jiggered with, and with total impunity. Just try jiggering with your ATM account; see how far you get.

      Perhaps my initial post was too subtle.
      We have been screwed
      OK, I let it all hang out. I feel better.

    9. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by toomanyhandles · · Score: 1

      Thanks to those who modded this as funny; it's somewhat sad that this topic is only a joke and yet at the same time, implementing the joke would be a huge improvement over the present system!!

    10. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Your wishes have come true :

      http://www.diebold.com/solutions/atms/

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    11. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      One problem is that it allows the voter to prove who he voted for, enabling coercion and the sale of votes. Absentee ballots have the same problem, which is why you used to need a better reason than "I'm too lazy to get off the couch" to vote with an absentee ballot.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    12. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't a true democracy involve more direct participation by the public such as through broad-based referendums? With the web, we've finally got the technological means to make this feasible. And maybe I'm not understanding your point about committees, but isn't that how congress runs things right now? The various tasks Congress has to deal with are divided; special committees are created for different tasks so each task force can focus on its specific tasks, and the organization can be run more efficiently and effectively. This is how most organizations are run, actually.

      With internet voting (not just elections), current task forces chaired by state/national representatives could be replaced with state or nation-wide polls. Legislatures could be replaced in a similar manner. Congress has stopped representing the populace a long time ago, now serving mainly their corporate sponsors. This is only natural as election campaigns are expensive, and human beings are corruptable. But with the relatively low cost and ease of adminstering referendums conducted over the internet, elected, or appointed, legislative bodies could be bypassed altogether.

      The only problem now is educating the public, and establishing a national culture that is ready for this kind of civic responsibility. I think most Americans have long forgotten our democratic perogative: to be informed about political happenings, to be critical of the governemnt, to actively participate in government policy making, and, lastly, to take responsibility for the actions of our government. Many have become disillusioned by the corruption of our political system, and as a result have forgotten that a democracy is not a democracy unless it is actually run by the people. Instead, we attack populace movements like Hugo Chavez' progressive government while deluding ourselves with the facade of still having the democratic virtues this country was founded on.

    13. Re:nice features, one more needed: voting booth! by LMariachi · · Score: 1
      The only problem now is educating the public

      Oh, is that all?

  12. Make us pay for your ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    'And the $1.75 transaction fee was too much--it was painful.'

    Oh sure, make us pay for the convenience of you being able to hawk all your wares through one endpoint.

  13. You never been to europe by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Funny
    We took the fast out of fast food. In fact the "slow food" places like McD and Burger King are were you probably spend the most time waiting to get your meal.

    As for this whole ATM idea that becomes a small store. Well, surely paying your bills through it is only for the poor (else you would just let your bank do it for free) who can only pay with cash. 1.75-3 dollars seems like the extra banks charge here if you want to pay a bill cash as the counter instead of through the mail from your account.

    As for other services. Yeah great. Internet access through an ATM? Talk about a waste of hardware. You got a small bank vault, a complex teller machine sitting idle while somebody is browing goatse and 20 fuming customers behind him waiting to withdraw cash?

    Couple that with the fact that an awfull lot of people are already confused enough by regular cash dispensers and this sounds like a really bad idea.

    Then again what do I know. Maybe people said the same things about the original ATM's.

    But 3 dollars for paying a bill. Yikes.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:You never been to europe by skam240 · · Score: 1

      "We took the fast out of fast food. In fact the "slow food" places like McD and Burger King are were you probably spend the most time waiting to get your meal."

      I know I can get a burger one hell of alot faster at a fast food place where I live than the more upscale burger places. I really don't understand that end of your "slow food" metaphore.

      As for: "As for other services. Yeah great. Internet access through an ATM? Talk about a waste of hardware. You got a small bank vault, a complex teller machine sitting idle while somebody is browing goatse and 20 fuming customers behind him waiting to withdraw cash?"

      While I was in college I lived right down the street from a mini-mart with an atm. Given that I'm prone to late night drinking I used this mini-mart often. The ATM at this place was almost always empty. Furthermore, I cant remember the last time I even waited at an atm outside of the one at my bank. ATMs at mini-marts (in my experience) have alot of down time between customers making this type of serive a very viable way to maximise profits.

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    2. Re:You never been to europe by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I'm old enough to remember the original ATMs (called Money Access Centers (MAC) at the time BTW). People thought it was a great idea and immediately saw why it would be useful. The concern were all about tellers no longer existing for those transactions that were too complicated. No one thought "why would anyone want that"?

    3. Re:You never been to europe by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Already, in China there are places where people have to wait in line for ATMs, because they are the only representative for a bank for miles (in Suzhou, China there is one ATM within a 10km radius that works- I know because I had to run around one day looking for one when I didn't have money to buy lunch). It wouldn't be that bad to allow things like music downloads and bill paying through ATM (There are already machines specifically for paying bills in Shanghai, and machines that do this and much more in Japan so paying bills by ATM isn't too far of a stretch- convergence and all that) as well as perhaps a music download service (If buying MP3s was as easy as buying milk, I would be doing that instead of using Yahoo for MP3s) (look in my sig if you don't believe me about using Yahoo to search for MP3s).

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    4. Re:You never been to europe by bobwoodard · · Score: 1
      I'm old enough to remember the original ATMs (called Money Access Centers (MAC) at the time BTW).

      Same here! Ours was called Molli Mac (get it>) and the thrill factor was pretty big at the time. No cashing of checks, no waiting in teller lines, etc...

    5. Re:You never been to europe by c_forq · · Score: 1

      In fact the "slow food" places like McD and Burger King are were you probably spend the most time waiting to get your meal.

      I have heard several people make a statement like this and I want to know: where the hell are they are eating their other meals at? For a good home cooked meal it always takes me about a half hour to an hour (and even longer for roasts and some soups). For good sit down restaurants in my area it is many times a 20 minute wait for seating, a ten minute wait for drinks, and ten to 20 minute wait for food. At the fast food places it is 10 minutes tops, maybe 20 if there is a REALLY long line.

      --
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    6. Re:You never been to europe by azuravian · · Score: 1

      Actually, MAC is a trademark of a particular company that makes ATMs in the Northeast (especially NJ and PA). I know a couple of people from PA that still refer to all ATMs as MACs, just like southerners call all carbonated drinks Coke.

    7. Re:You never been to europe by raju1kabir · · Score: 1
      I have heard several people make a statement like this and I want to know: where the hell are they are eating their other meals at? For a good home cooked meal it always takes me about a half hour to an hour (and even longer for roasts and some soups). For good sit down restaurants in my area it is many times a 20 minute wait for seating, a ten minute wait for drinks, and ten to 20 minute wait for food. At the fast food places it is 10 minutes tops, maybe 20 if there is a REALLY long line.

      At a down-home Chinese place you should be able to get a dish in 5 minutes. They wok that stuff up fast.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    8. Re:You never been to europe by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      If it's really as slow as you say, they'd be out of business quite fast. It's not like they've got incredible flavor or healthfullness. The only thing those places got goin' for them is speed.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:You never been to europe by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      Which is one of the reasons I don't use them. Both McD and BK are painfully slow with long queues, even in the drive ins. At KFC it is fast though, I always get what I order instantly. Don't have to wait in queue 5-10 minutes and then another 5 minutes for them to make what I order(usually how it goes at McD). At least at McD they are good at finding the table I am sitting at when they finally have made what I ordered.

      Most of my friends see the irony that McD is called fast food. And now I only visit them once or twice every year. They are not fast enough when I am in a hurry to make up for the low quality meal you are getting.

    10. Re:You never been to europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt very much that you remember the original ATMs as they were developed in the UK by De La Rue and introduced in England in late 1967. I remember these early devices. You received a packet of punch cards from the bank. Each card had a fixed amount that it would allow the machine to dispense. The machine would retain the card after use. Your bank would issue a new pack of card on request.

      ATMs where introduced in the US much later. In fact there were a number of stories in the US questioning the viability of introducing them. These stories introduced the spector of increased street crime if ATMs were introduced in the US.

    11. Re:You never been to europe by jbolden · · Score: 1

      That sounds like an automated cashier's check casher. Clearly a cool technology but I don't think its an ATM since the withdraw is probably when you buy the punch cards not when you get the cash.

    12. Re:You never been to europe by Tatsh · · Score: 1

      When referring to "slow food", he's referring to how wherever he lives, McD & BK are slow. I agree on BK, because at every BK I've been to I've waited at least 3 minutes. The thing that makes me mad about this is how I prefer BK over McD, and there's only a BK at my mall where I work at Sears, so when I go on break I go to BK and expect my meal within 90 seconds after finishing the order. Why? It's because I worked at McD, and during training they tell you that the meal must be given to the customer within 90 seconds. Sounded crazy to me at first, but it actually happens and I remember the "assembly line" at McD. It was hectic at 5PM everyday.

    13. Re:You never been to europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We took the fast out of fast food.

      "We"? As if there's a snowball's chance in hell you're actually European. Europeans don't talk about themselves as "Europeans" -- they say which country they come from. Only a Yankee would lump together all fast food restaurants in Europe. The difference between a McDonald's in Poland and one in Monaco is far greater than that between one in the UK and one in the US.

    14. Re:You never been to europe by galgon · · Score: 1

      I was at a McDonalds in Italy last year and it probably took them 4-5 minutes to fill my order. By the time my friend, who was behind me in line, got his food and sat down I was basically done with my meal. That was by far the slowest fast-food experience.

      The worst part was that they charge you .10 euros for Ketchup, and it isnt even the good Heinz Ketchup they have in the US.

  14. Social Security number? by Walzmyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    SS Number? I give that to no one unless they are paying into the system for me - ie. my boss. It ticks off a lot of doctors offices when that box is blank but when I ask 'em why they need to know it they just stare at me.

    I'd just as soon not have one at all, but I'm sure not pluging it into an ATM.

    1. Re:Social Security number? by mikiN · · Score: 1

      I hope there are other security measures involved besides an SSN in signing up for and accessing services at such an ATM.

      Otherwise it would make many forms of identity theft as easy as doing some dumpster diving and strolling over to the nearest Super ATM.
      Everyone knows that most SSNs are about as secure and private as a parking ticket under your windshield wiper.

      --
      The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
    2. Re:Social Security number? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      It ticks off a lot of doctors offices when that box is blank but when I ask 'em why they need to know it they just stare at me.

      You must not have health insurance. Or if you do, perhaps you have a policy from the only sane carrier on the planet.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    3. Re:Social Security number? by Walzmyn · · Score: 1

      nah, I just wouldn't give it to them either. They fussed but when they could not give me a legitamate reason to have it, the agent finally made a pass on it for me. :)

  15. Checks? How cute.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they still use *checks* in the US? I mean, they haven't heard of wire transfers and online banking? Seriuosly, how do people receive their wages or pay their rent there? By CHECKS?

    1. Re:Checks? How cute.. by hab136 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Do they still use *checks* in the US? I mean, they haven't heard of wire transfers and online banking? Seriuosly, how do people receive their wages or pay their rent there? By CHECKS?

      Most full-time employees receive their wages by direct deposit. Most mortgages are auto-deducted from bank accounts.

      Apartment rent, part-time employee wages, and person-to-person transfers normally use checks, yes.

      The US never really caught on to wire transfers. The $50 fee per transfer might have something to do with that (Bank of America last year, transferring to my sister's Wachovia account)

    2. Re:Checks? How cute.. by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Hah. How odd. Wire transfers are usually free within the country, and, since a while ago, within most of the EU countries. Of course the banks take a day or two to "transfer" the money during which it also happens to generate interest for the banks...

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  16. Cashing checks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ATMS have always cashed checks. You deposit the check, then you take the money back out of your account. How is this any different?

    1. Re:Cashing checks? by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      that only works if you have

      1: an account
      2: either sufficiant funds or sufficant overdraft facility to cover the cash withdrawl.
      3: an atm that supports deposits (do most us atms do so? i know most in the uk don't seem to)

      i presume by check cashing they are reffering more to the service you get from places like pawnbrokers who will give you cash and then essentially lend you the money until the check clears (for a fee ofc)

      --
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    2. Re:Cashing checks? by muftak · · Score: 1

      how would the ATM know that it is not a forged/fake cheque? when you put a cheque into your account it is checked manually and they don't let you take the money out untill it clears (i onced told the ATM i'd put in a cheque for £50,000, just to see what would happen)

    3. Re:Cashing checks? by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      well at some point the checks get collected and the forgery will be spotted. Then you're hosed, as the Feds come after you for fraud and the bank will hit you with some nasty fines.

      Most ATMs also either don't allow you to instantly withdraw what you just "deposited" or else limit it to a smallish sum.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    4. Re:Cashing checks? by adolf · · Score: 1

      My bank's ATM machine lets me do almost anything with floats.

      I can deposit a check for $500, and immediately take $500 back out. Even if that only leaves $1 of my money in the bank. And even though I have no sort of overdraft protection, credit lines, or any such nonsense (zero equals zero).

      I've done this fairly routinely for years, and never thought much of it.

      I guess my bank is just more trusting than those that the rest of you folks use.

    5. Re:Cashing checks? by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps. The credit union I use only lets you pull 200 per day out of an ATM, so that limits you right there. As far as floats, I'm not sure, I've never trusted one enough to cash my payroll check without handing it to a person

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
  17. Everyone uses the VCom's by sjg · · Score: 1

    I live in south Florida (Fort Lauderdale), where there is a 7/11 on every corner, and a VCom inside every single one of them. There is someone using the machine pretty much every time I walk into any of the neighborhood 7/11's (daily). Seems the white-collar's withdraw cash, and the blue-collar's cash checks. I can't say as I have seen anyone pay their bills or whatnot with one, however.

  18. depends, eh? by SpectralDesign · · Score: 1

    Here in Ontario (perhaps in the rest of Canada? I'm new here) there are electronic kiosks where you can do such things as renew your license or registration, change your address, etc... I'm sure there are people afraid to use it, but it's great for those of us who are not technophobic.

    I have memories of the DMV in California and spending half-a-day hopping from line-to-line to get simple tasks taken care of. I'll use the kiosk whenever I can!

    --
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss
  19. Sorry, didn't RTFA by bazorg · · Score: 5, Informative
    Over here in Portugal we have a company called SIBS which is owned by a consortium of banks. They're in charge of managing the network of ATM and the services provided to other companies through those machines.

    Possibly the best single feature they rolled out was to make available ATM payments to just about any company wiling to sign up. The first adopters were the utilities companies, that because of this now have less offices and "point of sale" than needed 20 years ago. Today any company can become a client of SIBS and get a 5-number code to be its ID. This ID will be printed on invoices along with another number, which identifies the transaction. Anyone can use an ATM to pay the invoice. Just type in these 2 codes, the amount to be transfered and you're done. The receipt will be printed out and for some services (ie: mobile phone top-ups) you get to see the effect within a couple of seconds.

    Building on this basic operation, many companies hired the services of SIBS to add their own menus and sub-menus on the ATMs, so these days there is a quite a lot of stuff you can do:

    • buy concert tickets
    • buy train tickets
    • make bank transfers
    • allow/change permissions for automatic payments from your account (ie: allow the water bill to be paid without confirmation)
    • top up mobile phones
    • pay public transport monthly tickets . this one had some extra work: the public transport tickets have to get in the ATM so their chip gets read/written. They're similar to London's Oyster cards
    and so on. overall it's pretty cool and has been working for a while now, that's why I'm surprised that adding bank transfers to ATM operations (in the US?) makes the news on /. in 2006. A few years ago, as banks started to have www-based services, new forms of login information were added to allow people to do at home most of these things, except getting cash out of your printer :)

    1. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by ondasmom · · Score: 1

      Seems to me that a lot of these services are things many of us do on -line from home (and at work) in the US, and that we would look at the various services described above differently if the first point for access had been an ATM rather than a home or work computer.

    2. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by illuminatedwax · · Score: 1

      These kinds of services have been in available in Japan for a very long time as well.

      --
      Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
    3. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by moonbender · · Score: 1

      The problem with doing at least some of this stuff from home is that it's more involved than just paying a bill. For instance, when you buy concert tickets over the net, you might still have to wait for the tickets to arrive per mail. The same is true for train tickets. That said, you can buy train tickets over the net which are delivered to you electronically as a PDF, which you print out yourself. That's really neat. OTOH these tickets are tied to a single person, unlike those you buy at a vending machine.

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    4. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the UK you can buy the tickets online, get an access code, and then you simply go to the automatic machine at the station, type in the code, and get the tickets. Similar technology is available for amusement parks - collect the tickets at the location. I like this as I am less likely to lose the actual ticket, provided I can remember the code.

    5. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 1
      According to the company's site, the company in question (SIBS) started offering their ATM services to the public in 1985. I don't believe that in 1985 the public had already adopted that whole home banking thing. Moreover, with all that evilware around (spyware, rootkits, etc...), frankly I don't trust more my personal computer than a regular-looking, bank-owned ATM machine. Yet, I use both and I do use them a lot.

      //Hooray to Portugal's Multibanco system, where the user is able to do a lot of operations (buying concert/theatre/train tickets, do service payments, money transfers, etc..) free from any extra charge.

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    6. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by Yer+Mum · · Score: 1

      In Spain you can buy the ticket at home on the Internet and insert your bank card into a cash machine or a special ticket machine in the cinema and you get your tickets printed out. Or you can just buy them straight at the cash machine.

      http://www.serviticket.com

    7. Re:Sorry, didn't RTFA by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you can do that here, too. It's a good compromise between the ease of paying from home and getting a authenticated ticket. I never do it because it's 1 EUR extra at my usual cinema, though. And unless you need to reserve a seat, you might as well do it at the cinema.

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  20. "too many steps"?-Roaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I also happen to think that charging people to get access to their own money is a bit rich"

    No. You get charged for going outside your network. My bank doesn't charge me for using their ATM's. The main reason I don't use them more often is that the minimumn you can take out is a bit big $20. The other is that all the other services I use are online.

    1. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Here in the UK the banks actually did something useful for their customers some years ago - they set up one big network just for cash machines, called it "Link" and allow anyone to use a bank-owned Link cash machine free of charge.

      Pretty much every cash machine has a "link" symbol on it.

      The big issue at the moment is small cash machines appearing in pubs, clubs and shops which charge (generally about £1.50 per transaction). I don't have a problem with it, as I live in a city so I'm never that far away from a cash machine which doesn't charge. But there are areas (and they're apparently becoming larger) where there are no bank-owned cash machines for miles around, and the formerly bank-owned machines (often at petrol stations or leisure parks) are being sold to the companies that charge a fee.

    2. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by jd678 · · Score: 1
      The LINK network predated the free withdrawals by a number of years. From their website:
      How was LINK created? LINK was formed in the mid 1980s to allow the smaller banks and building societies to compete against the cash machine networks of the larger banks. Using the concept of a central switch (unlike the big bank sharing arrangements) the LINK network was able to grow quickly and rival the bank sharing arrangements in size. By 1998, all the major UK banks and building societies operating in the money transmission areas had become network Members, enabling their ATMs to be shared by the other Members of the network.

      It wasn't the impetus behind offering free withdrawals. FWIR, one of the big bank networks (the Natwest/Midland ATM alliance, IIRC) joined into the already well established LINK network and decided to absorb the fees charged by the foreign bank, effectively giving free withdrawals anywhere. The rest of the banks/BS were steamrollered into doing the same. Those charges still actually exist, but the customer never has to pay them anymore.

    3. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      My local corner shop used to contain a free cash machine. Now it contains one that charges £1.50. I find it really difficult to understand why people use this, considering that there is a bank across the street with a free machine outside...

      --
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    4. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by netean · · Score: 1

      err check your T+Cs most UK banks/Building Societies actually DO make a charge for using LINK cash machines that aren't their own.

    5. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they don't. Some might, but most do not charge you for using other cash machines.

      The owner of the machine may charge you (maybe this is why you are getting confused), most banks will not charge you for using their machines, but the ones that aren't owned by banks (that you often find in pubs and some other places) will almost certainly charge you.

    6. Re:"too many steps"?-Roaming. by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Probably they don't know about the bank one.

      In places like that I'm sometimes tempted to print off stickers saying "There is a free cash machine directly opposite this store" and quietly fix them on.

  21. Security by zaguar · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm sorry, but I don't want to shop at my ATM. I want to do one thing - Deposit and withdraw money. I don't want a media center running on the latest and greatest OS - with the latest exploits included (free of charge)

    Mind you, that would be the only thing banks provide free these days.

    --
    "Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
    1. Re:Security by True+Dork · · Score: 1

      Thank you. That was the first thought that went through my mind too. With all the security problems, (slightly) amusing BSODs, students getting Windows Media Player running, etc I don't like the idea either. Just the mention of PayPal brought the image of the back end being Internet links (probably live IPs too) which should terrify us all.

    2. Re:Security by 3.14159265 · · Score: 1

      Well, nobody really forces you to. Those basic features are still there, and usually at 5 button strokes away (4 for the pin and 1 for the amount you want to withdraw.)
      All the other features are just a plus, and very nice to have (namely inter-bank transfers and services payments.)
      About the media center, funny you mention it, whereas 15 years ago it would be common to see a DOS prompt in some machines (really!), nowadays you get some BSODs. Hilarious...

    3. Re:Security by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "I'm sorry, but I don't want to shop at my ATM. I want to do one thing - Deposit and withdraw money."

      I understand and agree with your comments about exploits. I don't want those either. But this statement that I quoted here, well I just don't agree with that. I buy stamps at the ATM all the time. Another poster said that ATMs where he lives can be used to pay off utility companies. I wouldn't mind that, either. (Admittedly, though, I typically use the internet for this so I cannot say I'm dying for it.) Just using a little imagination here, I can see purchasing movie tickets at an ATM. Does the world need it? Nah. But I'm sure that's the sort of thing I'd use once or twice.

      I agree that there's little need for a multi-media show when using ATMs, but there is something to be said for the convenience of getting other things done with an ATM.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:Security by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I don't want a media center running on the latest and greatest OS - with the latest exploits included (free of charge)

      Oh, don't worry about that, they're running Windows ME. I mean, that's tried and tested, right?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know! Why doesn't anyone make an ATM that just makes phone calls -- I mean, dispenses money?

      And what's with these Ginsu knives that slice *and* dice? Does anyone actually dice with them? What if I want a knife that *just* slices? And what if I *don't* want to look at that tomato?

    6. Re:Security by SirBlackfish · · Score: 1

      Interesting choice of operating system, did someone actually deploy that for ATMs?

      7-11 themselves just finished a large-scale migration of all their older VCOM terminals from Win2000 to XP about two weeks ago, which had been running for around four months. A long an arduous process for those of us tasked with throwing updates at the units via Radia once they were re-imaged by a technician.

    7. Re:Security by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Not sure if it's in ATMs but I've seen a maintenance worker work with a transfer terminal and when he rebooted it there really was a Windows ME boot logo. At least it explains why the things are so unresponsive. Okay, that was a while ago but the responsiveness hasn't gotten better.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  22. $1.75 by od05 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    $1.75 is not terribly bad, in Chicago you can't find a single ATM for less than $2.00.

    1. Re:$1.75 by Will+Fisher · · Score: 1

      Anything more than $0 is bad IMO.

      In the UK most ATMs are free, and I refuse to use the ones that charge.

      My bank is already making money on the intrest I earn/pay, why should I have to pay to take out my own money?

    2. Re:$1.75 by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Are you saying it costs $2 just to withdraw money?

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    3. Re:$1.75 by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      ME TOO

      No, I won't use cash machines that charge. I also don't use petrol stations that have night pay windows - let me in the damn shop, or you don't get my business. I'm a customer, so don't treat me as a criminal.

    4. Re:$1.75 by Alias777 · · Score: 1

      Yes. P.S. The Pullman Bank ones in Norwood Park are $1.75 :-P

    5. Re:$1.75 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I agree. Here in Canada, there's a big push by all the places to have ATM machines (other than banks) to replace them with these asshole 'white label' machines, which ding you $1.50 - $2.00 per transaction, because a share of it goes to the asshole store the machine is sitting in. As well, I've seen branded Bank of Montreal machines that still charge you $1.50 (this is in addition to the Interac fee, which is $1.00 or $1.50) per withdrawl.

      If you have a white label machine, I won't shop there. If you charge a 'fee' at the debit machine at the cash ($0.25 usually), I won't shop there. Go cry at the unemployment line, opportunistic assholes.

  23. Social Security Legalities? by Khyber · · Score: 2

    Having RTFA I don't see mention on the main reason for inputting a SSN. Last I checked, The SSN is NOT VALID to be used as a form of identification (even though we all know we're branded and identified by this number by our government overlords.) When are we going to finally stand up to these invasive bastards?

    --
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    1. Re:Social Security Legalities? by plbland · · Score: 0

      Surely it's just an effective unique ID which everyone has? Whats with the paranoia these days? :p

    2. Re:Social Security Legalities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "paranoia" is exactly because the SSN is an ID. If somebody gets yours, they can effectively become you. They can apply for credit in your name. Have you not heard of ID theft?

    3. Re:Social Security Legalities? by Formica · · Score: 4, Informative

      Um, where exactly did you check on the SSN not being a valid form of identification? http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_154.html

    4. Re:Social Security Legalities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't thieve an identity any more than you can "steal" music off the internet. If someone gets your SSN you are still you, nothing is lost.

    5. Re:Social Security Legalities? by Ezrem · · Score: 1

      How about the little card you get?

      Right at the bottom it says "Not to be used as a form of identification".

  24. Canada by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    In canada, when you use your banks atm machines, you can cash cheques, pay bills, do almost anything you can do at a teller. The only reason I even go to the teller anymore is to get coins. There's still the need for money orders, and other things that only tellers can do, but those reasons are getting fewer and fewer. I'm not sure if it's good or bad. It's a lot more convenient to be able to get go up to a machine 24 hours a day and do your banking. but then again it's lost jobs for those people working as tellers.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:Canada by MKalus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the one thing that still irks me with Canadian banks though is that they have those abitrary cutoff times / dates.

      Heck, most computer systems from large institutions run 24/7, why can't they process a payment on the weekend? There is no real reason WHY they have to hold it (they do take the money out of your account after all right that instant).

      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
    2. Re:Canada by cliffski · · Score: 1

      so? word processors made many typists redundant. I'm sure the correction fluid business nose-dived too. Those ex bank tellers hopefully retrain and go on to do something more stimulating and creative than a paper task that a computer can automate.
      thats the hope anyway :D

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    3. Re:Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you get these cheques? Here in America we have checks.

  25. Later that day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...SpectralDesign learned that these electronic kiosks were not officially sanctioned machines of convenience, rather an elaborate scheme setup by hackers to harvest personal information, specifically, from Canadian newcomers.

    He vowed to never use a computer again.

  26. Eating cards by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    All that superduper stuff and I bet they still eat your card.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:Eating cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, sorry charlie.

      All new ATMs are what's known as 'dip' machines where the user swipes his card and the ATM never holds the card.

      Funny, we have several 'dip' machines and still get called by users swearing the machine stole their card!

  27. gay? by DJRikki · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Whats with everything on /. being tagged gay ? Someone needing to vent their sexual frustrations or something?!

    R.

  28. Surveys are often as dense as granite by tinkertim · · Score: 4, Informative

    VCom machines make a fortune from people who normally do not hold bank accounts. The check cashing is ideal for people who work the swing shift and miss most of the check cashing joints an liquor stores.

    Many people who don't have a bank account also pay their bills via western union, either a moneygram or purchasing money orders to mail off to someone , or drop in the rent box on the way home.

    These people really don't give a rat's ass who gets their social security number, they hope whoever steals it manages to pay off their bills and fix their credit score.

    They also don't care about the $1.75 fee, as most people who appreciate the machines don't in fact use the ATM feature.

    Vcom cornered a market nobody else has been able to touch. There's a 7-11 in every blue collar neighborhood in most first , and third world countries and those things are popping up globally.

    So .. as the game show used to say .. 'SURVEY SAYS' -> once again, nothing useful because the people surveying are just too dense to realize exactly who these things were designed to serve.

    Rather swift marketing imho :)

  29. I'd settle for better basic functions by sacrilicious · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Every time I go to my bank's ATM I withdraw $300. To do this, they make me hit "withdraw money", then hit "from checking", then present me with several pre-selected amount buttons all below $200 which makes me hit "other amount", then I hit 3-0-0-0-0-ENTER, then I hit "confirm with receipt". Message to the bank: how about if you customize my options so that one of the first buttons I have the option of hitting reads "withdraw $300 like you have every time you've been here in the past ten years". I'd really like to hit just one button instead of ten. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    1. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Chase (BankOne) ATMs have a feature just as you describe. You can set a "preferred fast cash amount." You enter your pin, and instead of hitting enter, you hit the "fast cash" button. It will validate your pin, and dispense your fast-cash amount (and will automatically print a receipt without prompting for it, if you have customized that setting too.)

      I'm actually very happy with how functional the Chase ATMs are here in Chicago... except for that one time I saw a malfunctioning ATM that actually had a windows start menu/task bar displayed over top of the ATM software screens... That one kind of scared me... I decided to use a different ATM that evening...

    2. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by BethanyBoo · · Score: 1

      Bank of America also offers a feature like that.

    3. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Gice · · Score: 1

      The feature you're asking for is a very hot topic these days for financial institutions. I work for a software company that writes EFT software (ATM driving / banking / etc.) and that has come up a couple of times as a requirement. You can be pretty sure you'll see it on some ATMs, in fact I believe Bank of America's new ATMs might have it.

      --
      __
    4. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Sebilrazen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wells Fargo ATMs allow you to do this for their 'Quick Cash' button. You can manually configure it to be the amount you need, want.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    5. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Gadzinka · · Score: 1

      which makes me hit "other amount", then I hit 3-0-0-0-0-ENTER

      Well, how about those morrons remove the need to type the smaller currency?

      I mean, when was the last time that ATM allowed you to withdraw $0.53? It doesn't let you do this in Europe either. Hell, most ATMs in Euro zone or outside of it won't let you withdraw less than about 10-20 euro, some of them have no bills smaller than 100. And yet you have to type 1-0-0-0-0-enter to withdraw a hundred...

      Robert

      --
      Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
    6. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      what blows my mind is why does the input require both digits of the decimal?
      ie why should i have to hit 35000 for $350?

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    7. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what blows my mind is why does the input require both digits of the decimal?
      ie why should i have to hit 35000 for $350?

      Why do decimals at all for cash withdrawal? Do american ATM's dispense money in smaller than integer increments? Over here the ATM's work in increments of 5 euro.

    8. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by mcowger · · Score: 1

      Newer washington mutual ATMs actually do exactly this - they let you set a preference value.

    9. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by rgbscan · · Score: 1

      USBank does too, you can configure the "fast cash" button to whatever account, dollar amount, and receipt preference you choose.

    10. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      A lot of smaller ATMs do not maintain a constant network connection, but instead are simply connected to a phone line. After you insert your card, enter your PIN, and tell it what kind of transaction you want to make, then it dials the bank, sends your information, and makes the transaction. It doesn't even verify your PIN until you've already entered the amount of money you want to withdraw.

      Larger ATMs with network connections don't have to work this way, but many of them still do, because that was the original design. Try entering your PIN incorrectly, and see when you get the error message (but don't enter it incorrectly too many times!).

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    11. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by motivator_bob · · Score: 1

      Every time I go to my bank's ATM I withdraw $300. To do this, they make me hit "withdraw money", then hit "from checking", then present me with several pre-selected amount buttons all below $200 which makes me hit "other amount", then I hit 3-0-0-0-0-ENTER, then I hit "confirm with receipt". Message to the bank: how about if you customize my options so that one of the first buttons I have the option of hitting reads "withdraw $300 like you have every time you've been here in the past ten years". I'd really like to hit just one button instead of ten. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

      We have this in Australia now. After you enter your PIN, the next question it asks you is "Do you wish to use your favourite transaction?" Hit yes, & the cash is given out, with reciept or not, as the case may be. Too easy.

    12. Re:I'd settle for better basic functions by Ender_Stonebender · · Score: 1

      Given that virtually all US ATMs are now only dispensing 20 dollar bills, why is there even an option to enter numbers with odd digits in the tens place? Why not just have a Pong/Arknoid style controller for incrementing and decrementing the amount to be dispensed?

      (The above was sarcasm. I realize the problems inherent in installing moving parts in places they are exposed to the elements.) The real reason for having to enter the decimal at all is they used the same routine for taking input to the "dispense cash" routine (which has a resolution of $20) and the "deposit" routine (which *requires* a resolution of 1 cent). I can kind of understand why early ATMs might have done it this way, but modern ATMs certainly have enough space to store seperate input routines for each of these functions.

      --
      Loose things are easy to lose. You're getting your hair cut. They're going there to see their aunt.
  30. Of course you can't VOTE with it, because.... by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    ....according to Diebold, maker of millions of ATM's and some very bad voting machines, it isn't possible for them to create a voting machine which prints a receipt.

    Logic says then, that if these machines can print receipts, they cannot be voting machines. QED.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  31. North Carolina has the hookup by oldosadmin · · Score: 1

    One of our largest banks is the "State Employees' Credit Union"... they have ATMs everywhere, no surcharge.

    It's excellent (and it's a good bank, too!)

    --
    Jay | http://oldos.org
  32. Why do we always need technology? by tarks · · Score: 1
    What's the advantage of these super-atms? I'd much prefer a bank with real people, enough counters and reasonable opening hours (like 6am to 10pm or some such). Why do I have to know PINs and TANs? Where is the service in our "service oriented" society. That does not rule out the occaisonal basic atm for when I need money at 2am.

    Now I need to do everything on my own plus I am to a large degree responsible for a lot of security issues that simply would not exist if I could deal with a real person that would know me personally in no time.

    Some time ago I pondered wether it would be an improvement in this direction if one seperated the front end business from the back end. I.e. Have several companies that are solely responsibel for the customer interaction for all banks and let the actual banks only offer their products (accounts, fonts, etc.)

    That way this front end companies had an interest in providing a good customer experience and the actual banks had to make good offer too, because knowledgeable people at the front end would be the one that choose what is appropriate.

    just my 2 euro cent

    1. Re:Why do we always need technology? by contrapunctus · · Score: 1

      What's the advantage of these super-atms?
      They are cheaper in the long run than hiring people... Same as robots in car factories.

    2. Re:Why do we always need technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the advantage of these super-atms?

      Convenience, obviously. I like the idea of doing more at a single machine, and being able to use any one of many such machines in my area wherever and whenever it is convenient for me.

      I'd much prefer a bank with real people...

      Then don't use the ATM. Of course, that means making the (in my case) one hour journey through bottleneck traffic to the bank, standing in line for another 30 minutes, dealing with the incompetent morons behind the counter, etc. I guess some people view this as "more social" though.

      That does not rule out the occaisonal basic atm for when I need money at 2am.

      You answered your own question.

      Now I need to do everything on my own plus I am to a large degree responsible for a lot of security issues that simply would not exist if I could deal with a real person that would know me personally in no time.

      Rubbish. People are the biggest security problem of all time, particularly the ones you've gotten to know "personally". Security is always your own responsibility, and it's an illusion if you think you've transferred that responsibility to someone else by using their service, and even more so if you "trust" that person.

  33. Mother Necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this really necessary? I hope I'm not sounding like an old timer, but do we really need these fancy new ATMs?

  34. Security risk by Nimey · · Score: 1

    The more LOCs and functionality one of these has, the more potential for security holes. I'd go out of my way to avoid one of these.

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  35. Hidden Agenda? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Perhaps if you make getting cash just too hard for the average joe, you can wean the public off of those little anonymous bills.

    Once you do, you can more easily track the money flow, to catch those pesky terrorists.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  36. further complication by mumblingrepublican · · Score: 1

    The whole thing is further complicated by my inability to find a 7-11 in Minneapolis or St. Paul... I was curious if it poops out a cellphone if you sign up for Verizon?

    --
    If it can't be done wrong... it can't be done.
  37. Technology for everyone by base_chakra · · Score: 1

    So .. as the game show used to say .. 'SURVEY SAYS' -> once again, nothing useful because the people surveying are just too dense to realize exactly who these things were designed to serve.

    Well, this is exactly the sort of technology that should be designed—ideally—to serve every consumer. Another slashdotter compared ATM technology with McDonalds restaurants. That's an apt comparison on multiple levels, since McDonalds kitchens are designed toward the ultimate goal of intuitive, self-explanatory technology with no learning curve whatsoever. For an closer analog (i.e., a computerized kiosk that really does aspire to this level of lowest-common-denominator appeal and user-friendliness), study modern video poker and video slot machines.

    As for the informal survey results, this is what one gets when a survey yields quasi-useful responses from one person; with all due respect to Peggy Baker, we need just a few more views before we go publishing "survey" results. Actually, the article also mentions another (tiny) survey of Australian Vcom ATM users that yielded some insights representing a viewpoint diametrically opposed to the one represented by Ms. Baker. Not surprisingly, it seems as though the article's author wants to make this seem like a case in which users are polarly divided.

    1. Re:Technology for everyone by tinkertim · · Score: 1


      >> Well, this is exactly the sort of technology that should be designed--ideally--to serve every consumer.

      I think the appeal of these machines to the people who are making them a success is they feel a little more like a customer than a consumer.

      The simple fact that it appears to be designed 100% with them in mind makes it novel on a more personal level.

      >> Not surprisingly, it seems as though the article's author wants to make this seem like a case in which users are polarly divided.

      That's because if you present anything as though there are one of two sides to pick, most people are inclined to pick one .. and will most likely thank you for keeping them 'informed' either way and continue to read your publications. Social engineering , similar to the engineering that put together Vcom .. just a little more obvious :)

      My argument is with those that spin the research in lieu of the presentation. One is a decietful thing to do, the other is the art of media. But that's what we all visit /. to discuss.. well that and cute pink ponies.

  38. Ever been to Japan? by benher · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm with the Europe folks on this one - This is really only news for Americans. Here in Japan, ATMs have had this sort of functionality via the Postal Savings system for years. That, and most ATMs at convenient stores can be used to pay utilities, purchase tickets, and a hoard of other services. Maybe US banks just don't feel any pressure to innovate. Hell, in comparison to the rest of the world in terms of a user experience it's not even innovation - it's catch-up.

    1. Re:Ever been to Japan? by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1

      Cost-cutting is the real goal. Tradition has had customers going to see a teller. But that costs money. So the banks are trying to push ideas that turn out to have been done elsewhere.

      The trick is getting the customers to break tradition and use the machines for more than withdrawals, so enter the train tickets and Paypal and whatever.

      What they are really saying is "here's this great machine that does all THIS, and it's free*!!! or you can go to a teller and pay extra. You choose."

      *until you have no choice and then there will surely be fees added on. Bet on it.

      My bank ATMs are free but you'll pay extra to see a teller more than a couple times a month. This suits me because I visit the bank branch an average of 0.5 times a month and an ATM around one time a month.

      But I am not about to do major banking at the ATM either, not with my back turned to people walking up. It's already dangerous enough standing there for 30 seconds trying to get cash or make a deposit. I like to get in, do the task, and get the hell out.

      Complicated stuff I do with online banking.

      --
      Sig for hire.
    2. Re:Ever been to Japan? by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      I've heard that they also have a system which allows one to do payments via SMS, everything will become a part of the phone bill.

      Is that correct? Can somebody provide more details?

    3. Re:Ever been to Japan? by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      It's implemented here in Austria, though only for certain areas. You can buy your parking tickets via SMS, online betting is paid that way, public transport tickets, and you can get your soft drinks from vending machines by sending a code. It gets added to your monthly phone bill. I'm sure there are more areas where it's used, but those are the ones that for me come to mind immediately.

      I'd bet on Japan being a lot more advanced in the area, though. If even we can figure it out, surely they're far ahead of us.

    4. Re:Ever been to Japan? by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      I see, so this thing is indeed real.

      I was wondering, what happens if you lose your phone, or if it is stolen? Are there any limits on how much you can 'spend via SMS'; perhaps the number of purchases is capped to N/day? Or it is just the responsibility of the owner to keep an eye on their phone?

    5. Re:Ever been to Japan? by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      You can set a limit when you sign up for the service. With my phone provider the default limit is 100 Euro per day, so the damage would not be too great. If your phone gets stolen, the first thing you do is call your provider and block the SIM card, so no more payments or calls are possible from that moment on. Same if you lose your phone; you can block the SIM card and get a new card (with the old number) from your provider. Anything that happens until you block the card is your responsibility, though, although providers usually are generous if you can show them a police report or something like that.

    6. Re:Ever been to Japan? by tokenhillbilly · · Score: 1

      I call BS on this one. I have been to Japan and they have the most backward banking system in the world. I only know of three ATM's in Tokyo that will even accept a foreign bank card. I'm sure that there are probably more, but that's just around the Shinjuku area. Given the lack of ATM's, I have found myself forced to get a cash advance from a VISA card at a bank. This operation is the most time consuming thing I have ever tried. It's like you have to schedule an appointment and then talk to three different people. Then you go sit down in a lobby and maybe an hour later they come get you and give you the money.

    7. Re:Ever been to Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent is absolutely correct. Japan's banking system is designed to protect two entities:

      1) Big corporate banks (mizuho, tokyo-mitsubishi UFJ ...)
      2) Yakuza-backed "service" providers (promisu, etc.)

      If Japan had a modern consumer credit system, there would be no need of (2). On the other hand, a cash-based system based on extensive "advanced" ATMs serves both (2) and (1) through fees and proprietary debit card systems.

      Welcome to Japan.

  39. Privacy? It use to exists for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And of course all this "convienence" makes it easier to reduce "privacy"

    I suggest reading "Database Nation by Simson Garfinkel".

  40. Will it play mp3's? by Bohemoth2 · · Score: 1

    I havent used an ATM in 20 years. They can overengineer it and have it ask for SSN's all they want. I don't care.

  41. Not just $20's anymore? by gameforge · · Score: 1

    Does this mean ATM's will spit out more denominations than just $20? If I get a check for $36.41 it would have to give me one of every denomination of currency.

    Or maybe it will give me a $20 bill and $16.41 in pennies?

    1. Re:Not just $20's anymore? by eluusive · · Score: 1

      Most ATMs already support outputting any denomination of money. For example goto a Bank of America ATM, it'll ask you to punch in the amount you'd like rather than select it from a list. That's because the software and the machine both support other denominations. However, the bank chooses to only put $20 bills in the machine.

    2. Re:Not just $20's anymore? by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      Most ATMs already support outputting any denomination of money. For example goto a Bank of America ATM, it'll ask you to punch in the amount you'd like rather than select it from a list. That's because the software and the machine both support other denominations. However, the bank chooses to only put $20 bills in the machine.

      Yes, I remember Mexico the cooler ATMs when you withdrew like 3000 pesos gave you 500s, 200s 100s, 50s, and sometimes 20s. I was most impressed with a stack of 5 20s, that was nice. I forget if it gave me 1000s or not. I do however remember stores getting annoyed with people like my self paying with a MX$200, let alone a MX$500.

      Bank of America is one of the few places I remember that offered $5.00s from their machine, though in more recent years, I can't say I noticed anything above and beyond $10.00. I can't say all their machines did, in fact one branch offered $5s from one machine, and $5s and $20s from another. Not like spending $20s is typicaly an issue, it's those pesky $50s that some stores turn their noses at, like Starbucks for example.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    3. Re:Not just $20's anymore? by eluusive · · Score: 1

      The funniest thing is that the stores don't get outed any money for accepting counterfeit bills. They just go turn them in for real ones at the bank, and then the secret service takes off with the counterfeit ones.

    4. Re:Not just $20's anymore? by rgbscan · · Score: 1

      You must not visit the ahem...developing neighborhoods. ATM's spitting out $5's are common here. Just think of the spread... a $2 access fee on top of your $5 withdrawal. It makes merchants drool.

  42. Your choice, not everyone elses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is your choice, afaik you still have the option of walking into the bank (subsidized by people who use ATM's). Non personal banking has freed up people to work in other areas of the economy such as IT etc. while making banking convenient for most people. If you need hand holding every time as to which decision to make (do I withdraw money, or do i deposit it?), you can still talk to a banking professional, this option still exists. But I know I rather have blockbuster drugs and cheap communications and better cars/computers over this supposed nostalgic banking experience thing. I never remember not having to stand in line at the bank. Was there ever such a time? I have better things to do with my time. Surely there are alternate places to get social interaction than standing in line in the bank?

  43. From the "What were they thinking?!!" department. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    ... which require users to enroll and enter a Social Security number on a touch screen."

    Asking people to enter sensitive information on a touch screen in a completely insecure environment? It's one thing to go to your local bank branch and sign up for an ATM service, it's an entirely diffent matter to do it while standing in a 7-11. customers complained about the machine's usability, but I don't care if the thing is running Mac OSX ... an ATM is simply not the place to be signing up for services.

    If any system seemed designed to fail this is it.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. Abysmal customer service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in the credit/debit industry, and have had the misfortune of dealing with Vcom customer service. They could be used as a case study on why outsourcing phone support to India doesn't work. The customer service reps themselves are perfectly nice and intelligent people, but they've obviously had shit for training.

    I've had them call me (I deal peripherally with the company that operates Vcom, but know next to nothing about the product itself) to ask shockingly basic questions, and in some cases have had them blind-transfer customers to me when they started getting irate.

    I'm in no position to speak to the merits of the actual Vcom machines, but the phone support for it is a joke.

  46. I don't get it by Rac3r5 · · Score: 1

    Here in Canada, we don't have machines like those, but I'm not sure if I'd even use them. We just have simple ATMs that accept cheques, bill payments, and dispense cash for free (well at least my bank).

    But the only thing I actually use them for is dispensing money once in a blue moon because everyone here accepts debit or credit cards. And maybe sometimes cashing in a goverment tax refund cheque.

    As far as bill go, we can pay them all online for free with my bank.

    1. Re:I don't get it by Oswald · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you do get it. These machines are pointless.

  47. "Super" ATMs? by dodobh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey, Indian banks have been offering these features for a few years now. I have been using these services for ~ 7 years (ever since I got an ATM card).

    And the menus are not confusing, they are actually laid out pretty well. (One additional option - other services, then just go down one or two levels more to get to the precise service you want). Cash withdrawal and cheque deposits are totally different services and have different buttons.

    --
    I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  48. You've obviously never been to McDonalds. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are very SLOW. I have no idea how they make money.

  49. 1.75 transaction fee by log0n · · Score: 1

    If only - we're in the $2.50-$2.75 range for fees here in the Balt/DC area. A $3 fee is pretty much the point at which cost outweighs convenience and I startchanging my banking habits. All the features in the world isn't going make me more inclined to use more sophisticaed ATMs.

    1. Re:1.75 transaction fee by eluusive · · Score: 1

      WHen you start talking about it in terms of interest, or much anything else. It's outrageous. Goto taco bell and get charged and entire food item to use your ATM? Since when to gas stations charge to use your credit card to buy gas? The whole thing is stupid, I refuse to use my ATM/Credit Card anywhere there is a charge. Which in turn means, most of the time I just don't go there.

    2. Re:1.75 transaction fee by Hiro+Antagonist · · Score: 1

      Maybe this is because I was raised by a Jewish mother, but I refuse to pay ATM fees. I either use my bank's ATMs, or get cash when I purchase something -- usually, my weekly groceries. Even if you have to stop at a Longs and buy a pack of gum, you still end up with a cheaper 'fee' ($0.75), and you get something out of the whole transaction (the gum).

      This does add up. Assume two ATM transactions per week. The average fee in my area seems to be around $1.75, and my bank charges an $0.75 'foreign ATM fee', so that's $2.50 in transacton fees per transaction, or $5.00 per week. Multiply that by 52, and it comes out to $210 in money to which I didn't literally set fire.

      Of course, I've brought this argument up to friends who are always complaining about how they are broke, nevermind that they don't spend five minutes a day thinking about where their money goes. Everyone cares about 'convenience', and nobody seems to give a rat's ass about forethought.

      --

      --
      I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
    3. Re:1.75 transaction fee by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      In the UK, banks used to charge for using ATMs. Then a few stopped. Then, they formed a group which allowed you to use each other's ATMs for free as well as your own banks. Supermarkets also jumped on this bandwagon by putting ATMs outside and absorbing the fees themselves, on the basis that it made people more willing to spend money.

      When you close a bank account, you are usually given a form to fill out explaining why[1]. Last time I did, I had to spend half an hour talking to the manager, while he tried to persuade me that they were competent. When one or two banks start offering free ATM usage, the others start seeing 'because you charge for ATMs' written on a lot of these forms, and adopt the same policy to stop haemorrhaging customers.

      [1] Interesting statistic: In the UK, you are more likely to get divorced than to change banks. If you do, the bank wants to know why, because it's usually a lot easier to keep an existing customer than to get a new one.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:1.75 transaction fee by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Try a credit union. They typically have better service and fewer/smaller fees.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    5. Re:1.75 transaction fee by HidingMyName · · Score: 1

      I'm curious as wto what the markup is on the transaction fee. Does anyone have an estimate of what the bank's transaction fees are to service a debit card transaction? I'm curious.

  50. Blue hair hell by edwardpickman · · Score: 0

    Ah yes. The little old ladies who after twenty years of using them has yet to master entering amount and punching yes now have to figure out how to send their grand kid $20 for his/her birthday. I can't wait. Just got to decide how best to clock them? A watch, hourglass, sundial or calendar? Choices do not equal convience they tend to make things inconvient. Fast food used to be all but seconds for your order now it can be as much as fifteen minutes or more. Sit down restaurants are sometimes faster. We need better services not more services crammed into one place. People asked for better cell phone service so the companies said oh you want games. The people of coarse said no we meant clearer calls and to get a signal in more places. So they give us camera phones to solve the problem. Corporate america doesn't get it and they never will. Availibility of most things has gone up but quality and service have consistently gone down.

  51. my ATM dispenses home mortgages by peter303 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With real estate going up so much every month, my bank decided to bypass mortgage brokers and give out instant mortgages via ATMs.

    When you key your pin in, your now see the third line "MORTGAGE ACCOUNT" below "CHECKING ACCOUNT" and "SAVINGS ACCOUNT". When you select MORTGAGE ACCOUNT, you can ask for an instant appraisal (linked to Zillow.com) and the day's mortgage rates. If you like what you see, then you can apply for an instant cash out mortgage and it appears in your account. Then you can do waht you want with the new cash.

    This new feature was activated April 1, 2006 according to the disclosure.

  52. No fee? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    How about rather than giving us uber-ATMs...how about making REALLY simple cheap ones and passing the savings on to the customers in the form of extremely reduced or non-existent transaction fees? Anybody have any idea what the profit margin is on those? I mean, it can't honestly cost anywhere close to $2 per withdrawl can it?

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:No fee? by t482 · · Score: 1

      I had a look at our cost (regional mid size bank) and the cost is about .7 cents to 2 cents (if cirrus/plus)

      That doesn't include atm and network costs - you can add another 5-10 cents for that.

  53. I can already see it.. by KodeK · · Score: 0

    You go up to the ATM. You hit start > All programs > Money. You click on withdrawal, but a message box pops up saying that "The disk is not ready" and you must either click Cancel, Retry, or Continue. You then find out that your ATM card wasn't all the way in. You click on retry. You type the amount of cash you want, but numbers don't show up. My bad! Num lock was off. As soon as you click on "Done," a balloon shows up at the bottom of the screen: "This ATM is running low on cash. Click here for more information." That's when you think it's too much, and you go home hungry.

  54. Location, Location, Location by cyphercell · · Score: 1

    The new machine doesn't belong in front of a seven eleven, it belongs in front of one of those ritzy beverly hills grocery stores, right next to a less sophisticated machine.

    --
    Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
  55. Wow! by sambram · · Score: 1

    All under OS/2?!

  56. Retail counter clutter by Animats · · Score: 1
    This is really a reaction to retail counter clutter, an annoying problem to retailers. There's not just a cash register and maybe a scale. There's the point of sale terminal, the credit card terminal, the customer PIN pad, the money order terminal, the lottery terminal, the cell phone activation terminal, the value card recharging terminal... And then you have to train minimum wage people to run all this stuff.

    Other countries have had the One Big ATM for some time, but the US has so many competing companies in the same fields that folding all this stuff into one unit hasn't happened. That's also why stored-value cards never really caught on in the USA - there are hundreds of different ones, all with limited utility. That's capitalism.

    Then there's a security issue. Especially in the gambling industry, where companies are routinely, by contract, held financially responsible for their errors.

  57. Paying a fee to pay a bill = asinine! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:
    "I use it all the time to pay my bills; it's pretty good," said Daisy Borges, who works in the linens department of a home accessories shop near the Cingular store and who dropped in to pay her $39.99 monthly Cingular phone bill during a lunch break.

    Borges said she used to mail a check to pay the bill, but switched to using the kiosk three months ago. "It goes faster, it works better," she said. "I'm pretty sure that my money goes to the right people."

    And the $2 fee? Borges shrugged and said, "Nothing is free in New York."


    So she'd rather pay a $2 fee than spend 2 minutes writing a check and 39 cents on a stamp to just mail it? This is idiocy. Wake up, you moron, you are paying a fee for the "privilege" of paying a bill! And people wonder why they're broke all the time?

    I refuse to do pretty much anything that results in additional "because we can" fees being tacked on. I don't even go to concerts that much anymore, since TicketBastard started charging "convenience" fees on tickets even when you go to the venue box office. Someone please tell me, what's so convenient about having to get up early on a Saturday, drive to a concert venue and stand in line with a bunch of hung-over and/or still-drunk-from-last-night malcontents who happen to like the same band that I do?

    1. Re:Paying a fee to pay a bill = asinine! by coffeechica · · Score: 1

      Aside from $2 vs. 39 cents, where's the difference? You pay a fee either way, to whoever operates the ATM or to the postal service.

  58. If my ex could use it... by jessecurry · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My ex girlfriend used to use the Vcom all the time, and she was almost entirely technologically illiterate. After she used it the first time she said that it was "fun", and that she "felt like someone from the future".
    If she can use one, almost anyone should be able to use one. She'd go cash her payroll checks, which she would get on Saturday night after 6pm. If the check was ever less than $300 there was no fee. Plus there was the added benefit of the Slurpee that she would get me before she left the store.
    I thought that there was no way the machine would pay for itself, but she insisted that there were lines at times.
    I think that the idea is a good one, I think that people will use it, and I think that we will see machines such as this for a long time to come.

    --
    Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
  59. Cash Checks ? by Pleb'a.nz · · Score: 1

    "... the new ATMs can fulfull the roles of PayPal (by sending money to people), bank (by cashing checks on the spot)..."
    Is monopoly money that much of a problem over there ? :P

  60. Ummmm by 8ball629 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think the vCom machines in the 7-11s are great for getting money orders at crazy hours. I've used the vCom down the street quite a few times just for the money order feature and its not confusing at all unless you don't know english. Also, I didn't have to sign up to get a money order. One of the cool features about getting a money order was you can put somewhere around 20 bills in at once and it sorts and counts them all out for you. Its great if they're coming out with something better but the current ones aren't THAT bad...

  61. We already have them here! by glaucoma · · Score: 1
    Here in Brazil we have had these multifunctional ATM machines for a long time (almost ten years, that's as far as I can remember). We can use them to pay any bill (they have a barcode reader), make deposits (they can accept money but the amount is manually checked and validated afterwards), recharge a prepaid cellphone, pay taxes, transfer money, invest in funds (as long as no signed papers as required) and so on.

    There is a local company which manufactures multifunctional ATMs for all those purposes, some of them even have a full keyboard (I have used one once to set my internet password).

    Of course all that is just a matter of savings to the banks, since an ATM is much cheaper than an employee.

  62. Consistency by chihowa · · Score: 1

    I would assume it's for an overall consistent 'banking experience'. It is possible to deposit decimal amounts, in which case you need the extra digits. Though annoying for withdrawals, the lack of consistency would like be a source of some error. (though not much... it would be possible to automatically adjust for extra digits entered in the withsrawal mode: somebody entering 2-0-0-0 would get $20, just like somebody entering 2-0, as neither $2000 nor $0.20 are acceptable choises for a withdrawal.)

    --
    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  63. ATMs in Brazil by dclobato · · Score: 1

    Here in brazil, ALL ATMs allow you to do this stuff: pay bills, transfer money to accounts (at the same or other banks), deposits, buy credits for cell phone, print your transactions... We do not mail checks with bills on an envelope to pay them: in fact, the brazilian legislation does not allow you to mail money.

    Besides doing that on the ATM, on most banks you can do this using internet or cell phone (WAP) -- except the physical-money-handling part, of course! :)

    In most banks, the use of such services is included in the monthly fee you pay to keep your account. In my case, around US$3.00/month one one bank and ZERO on the other. The last time I went to my bank was to reset the internet-access password, 6 months ago.

  64. Fast food by CustomDesigned · · Score: 1

    Subway. (Sandwiches)
    Noodles & Company (pasta dishes served in 5 minutes - takes longer to eat, though).
    Smoothie King. (Fruit, protein powder, ice in a blender.)
    Pizza. (12 minutes from order - call ahead and it is instant.)

    1. Re:Fast food by c_forq · · Score: 1

      Subway and Jimmy John's are both fast in my experience (Jimmy John's is the fastest delivery around here to, sometimes less then ten minutes). Noodles & Company can be slow sometimes in my experience, but for the most part is fast. Pizza in my locale is at least 30 minutes (and that is on a weekday, weekends it is an hour at least).

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    2. Re:Fast food by andreyw · · Score: 1

      And all of that stuff is ABSOLUTELY downright horrible for you. I am guilty of it too, but recently mostly pizza places and "diners", (I will never go to a fast food chain anymore) but only because -
          a) Nothing more decent around where I work. There is some decent stuff around my uni, but I can't afford taking 3 hour lunches.
          b) I can't afford to go home and cook either, as I can't have 3 hour lunches.

      Come to think of it, I barely remember the last time I "lunched". I resolved that I either will go to decent restaurants or just not eat at all. Sure, you pay a bit more... but seriously... if you have to think about how much you spend on food, you need to do something with your life :.

  65. Know where to go by m4c+north · · Score: 1
    I call BS on this one. I have been to Japan and they have the most backward banking system in the world. I only know of three ATM's in Tokyo that will even accept a foreign bank card.

    Yeah, it's pretty funny over here. However, I've never had a problem using a foreign card in Japan, and neither have friends. Go to the Post Office's machines. Japanese banks will only take Japanese cards in general.

    What frustrates me are the charges and hours. Yes, hours, and they aren't 24 hours a day. It's more like 08:00 - 20:00. Plus, if you buy airline tickets or other furikomi goods, then you usually get charged around Y500 for the 'service'.

    --
    Who's your user, program?
  66. Strange things... by timmy_otoole · · Score: 0

    are afoot at the Circle K.

  67. the criminals who own the machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there was an expose on one of the TV news shows a few years back (60 minutes or 20/20, I forget right now). Those private machines-some criminal orgs were buying them up orecisely to get the banking info and to use in money laundering. I haven't used anything but an official bank ATM since. There are allegedly laws that somehow magically only honest people can get them and install them, but apparently they had no problems whatsoever getting one and putting it up as a test, using bogus background details-the company who sold them just accepted it at face value.

    Someone here might remember that show so it can be looked at again, I may not have the details completely correct but that was the gist of it.

  68. well, well, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "no European version of Enron"...royal dutch shell got caught cooking the books in their statements of estimated and proven reserves. Exagerrating by ...20%, one fifth no biggee, just buckets and scads of dollars/euros/clams/lbs whatever else you use worth they lied about. for a long time, too. How did that effect "the markets" and what people pay at the pump? who profited from that little gem? I know it didn't make much of a splash, but as bigtime crimes go as regards "energy", it is right up there. And, speaking of money, I seem to remember a little scandal involving massive drug deals, arms, slaves, political power being bought sold and traded coming from a little bank in italy. Whoops, it appears to also concern some "terrorist" attacks that were done by non muslim right wingers, but pinned on others, what they call "false flags". Oh ya, brit intel working *inside* IRA cells and letting bombings go down..how ..quaint. And the 7-7 attacks, how *conveneient* to be running a "drill" at exactly the same time it went down in the same place. Oh yes, and what was that bit involving high level government people, dungeons, torture and murders of women again? Where was that?

    Europe is full of scandals, money, energy, political and otherwise. No one here on this board comes from anyplace that is completely full of smart honest people, so there's no sense in going for the jingoistic nonsense. Humans can suck,they can be crooks, liars,thieves and murderers (hey, who invented "the concentration camp" again?); it is that simple,it doesn't matter where they grew up or what color skin or what funny hats they wear or which side of the road they drive on or whether they are universally dumbed down and faked out by the central banking thieves making them use cash, cheques, or cards..we are all guilty of being conned there...

        The US has some suckiness to it with scandals, but they learned it from the Europeans.

  69. St George Bank - Favorite withdrawls... by sr180 · · Score: 1

    The St George Bank (also BankSA) in Australia offer this feature, and its easy to use.. Simply type in your pin and hit the favourite withdrawl button. The atm then returns the previously saved amount of money, and a receipt (if set). It really speeds up your atm transactions.

    --
    In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
  70. Progress? by Mike+Quin · · Score: 1

    Over the last ten years or so most of the banks in the UK have upgraded their ATMs, replacing the old green-screened units with new, colour-screen equipped ones. Functionality is in the most part unchanged aside from a few minor features (such as the ability to top up pre-paid mobile phone accounts), and the heavier use of the machines to display advertisments.

    What has changed, however, is that the machines operate slower than the old ones - a good few seconds on every transaction which results in longer queues.

    Is this progress?

  71. Longer lines! by FishinDave · · Score: 1

    Goddamit, I don't WANT an ATM to do anything except spit cash! I already wait too long in grocery market lines while people buy stamps, pay their fucking bills, and everything else except buy groceries and get the fuck outta my way!

  72. How painful will this be? by nra1871 · · Score: 1

    Adding more functions to an ATM? Good lord right now I spend 15 minutes in line watching people ram their card into the machine 6 times, looks perplexed at the options, jab their fingers on the buttons several times, then put their card back in and start over. Most people are too dumb to handle 'withdraw' 'deposit' 'transfer', I sure as hell don't want to see more choices on the screen!

  73. Not where I live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a 7-11 in every blue collar neighborhood in most first , and third world countries and those things are popping up globally.

    I can't remember the last time I saw a 7-11. Wawa kicks their ass here. 7-11 cannot compete with them.

  74. I just need $1 bills and quarters, please by elrous0 · · Score: 1
    Seriously, the biggest pain in the rear today for me (here in the U.S.) is getting $1 bills and quarters (need them for vending machines, my apartment washing machines, etc.).

    Since the rise of debit cards, I don't use cash to buy anything anymore (hence, never get any change). And ATM's only offer $10 bills and higher. Therefore, to get $1's and quarters I actually haver to go to the bank and get them in bulk (and deal with hateful looks from the tellers when I ask for $60 in quarters and $50 in $1's).

    And don't even get me started on pennies. I won't even accept those in change, and just throw the damn things in the trash when I do get them.

    How about a truly *SUPER* ATM that can give me some damn change?

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  75. Whew by hurfy · · Score: 1

    It is about the one at 7-11...I was scared someone had installed a BIGGER one somewhere,hehe.

    The monster is slower to get money out of by a tad than the old one last year. By a whole lot tho if some fool in front of you is cashing a check or something odd.

  76. Some people can barely handle regular ATMs by Thomas+Henden · · Score: 1

    They should put up a lot of these super duper ATMs then. Those of us who have been #2 in the queue and looked forward to a quick withdrawal of cash, only to listen to lots of beeps and reinsertions of the card by the person in front of you, acting like he or she never have used one of these machines before, pressing all the wrong buttons, incredibly enough going on for a long period without getting the card confiscated by the machine due to too many incorrect PIN code entries, KNOW what I mean: Hopefully, the banks only hand out cards for these new ATMs to persons passing some kind of an IQ-test, or users who already have an internet-enabled bank account. Or hopefully they will roll out really many of these machines, to avoid long and irritating queues because ordinary 'non computer' people simply get too many options to choose between on the spot.

  77. Wow! by armondf · · Score: 1

    In this "third world" country where I live, our ATMs offer users the following abilities: Withdraw money (from any linked account) Pay bills Transfer cash Deposit Cash Pay Speeding fines Buy Cellphone Airtime (from any of our Cellular Service Providers) Get bank statements Draw cheques (American: checks) Open new accounts Request replacement cards/chequebooks (American: checkbooks)

    --
    how flawed is your society? flawedsociety.myfreelancejobs.com