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Hey not everything is crap these days. You just gotta look in the right places. There are still some principled, honest and ethical musicians around.

http://www.dischord.com/ Founded by Ian MacKaye http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_MacKaye/ of Minor Threat, Embrace, Fugazi, The Evens. He is a pioneer of DIY recording and has no associations with major labels, mostly out of lack of interest in that kind of business. There are loads of bands on this site who are just doing their thing.

Even better yet, Dischord seems to be able to keep up with the times, offering DRM-free fairly high-quality MP3s of nearly their entire catalog which is added to all the time. They even reissue vinyl records now because as they still popular in some circles. In addition to the record itself you get free mp3 versions of all the tracks your already purchased on the record. The prices are fantastic too!

Is it all record labels that are evil or just the big ones? In the old days there used to be such things as indie record labels like factory, creation, sub pop, mo wax, etc. They started small, built up a great rosta of artists who eventually went off to the major labels. Either that or the major labels simply brought them out. no one could ever claim they screwed their bands, Factory even gave their artists the complete rights to their recordings. are we saying they were bad? Dischord is a good example of how a record label could and should work. it is run by the bands, for the bands with the profits going to the bands.

I just don't see how a world where every band, doing all its own work, would work. Every band would end up employing its own engineers for recording, designers for packaging, publicists for advertising, bookers for gigging, etc. And just because Dave has a transit van it does not mean he can book a 50 date tour round Europe by himself. Eventually companies would pop up that did this for you, for a fee, and you would be back where you started.

The problem is a mass audience.

Before I became a geek, I was a journalism student, and in an advanced editing course, we talked about ads. The professor said that ads are news content as much as stories were. I balked at that idea. Then, after class, I sat somewhere and opened up the new issue of Maximum Rock'n'Roll, saw in an ad from Dischord that Fugazi has a new record out, started scheming about how to afford it, and I was enlightened. Fugazi's new album was news, information that I wanted to know so I could plan my life around it. It was content, not distraction.

Fugazi fans tend to be hardcore punk fans, so an advertisement in a zine for hardcore punk fans is tightly targetted. Slashdot readers tend to be geeks and often Linux geeks, so ThinkGeek and Linux distros are natural advertisers for Slashdot. Brides-to-be, as a class, are so into having the wedding of a lifetime that they're willing to pay for big big magazines full of ads. Incidently, this is why IT professionals can get those magazines for free, because the money for ads in magazines that can say they have $BIGNUM subscribers in the IT industry trumps the money they'd get from subscriptions from the same set of people.

So, who watches Desperate Housewives? Can you say it's thirty-something married women? Teenage and 20-something boys gawking at the hotties? What? Watching Monk, I get the idea that someone thinks that only old people watch the show, because it seems subsidized by powered wheelchairs. "People of limited mobility! Give us money and we'll give you this wheelchair so you don't have to stay in front of the TV, watching Monk!" And watch almost any channel at 2:33am and you'll see ads switching between sex lines and diaper ads, because perverts and parents of bawling infants are the two types of people they know are watching at 2:23am.

So, when they don't know who you are and what you want, they go to the everyone list. Everyone needs to eat, everyone wants to get away, everyone wants to feel sexy, everyone wants to be cool. So, food, cars, travel, beer, deodorants. And, let's pull back from everyone to everyone in one half of the audience, and bring in the tampon ads. And it's this everyone that probably gets hurt the most by ad-skipping. I mean, let's face it, I could watch all the limited-mobility ads on USA that I want and as long as I have two good legs, I won't buy anything.

And one thing to notice: Studies say that women are not sold via humor, so for big ticket items where both responsible adults must agree, you won't see much humor any more. The days of Joe Isuzu are dead.

Dischord Records is the label started by Ian MacKaye in Washington DC. Ian MacKaye was/is the central figure in three DC hardcore bands: The Teen Idles, Minor Threat, and Fugazi. Bad Brains and Minor Threat essentially created the DC hardcore punk scene in the mid-eighties. MacKaye is also the creator of the Straight Edge philosophy, which he developed in several Minor Threat songs: "Straight Edge", "Bottled Violence", "In My Eyes", and "Out of Step (with the world)", for example. Dischord Records was started so that punk bands could release albums at a very low cost and not have to deal with big corporate labels.

Anyone interested in the DC punk scene ought to check out Dance of Days which chronicles the development of DC punk.

Instead of writing crappy music and trying to be superstars by selling their souls to the record company, maybe they could try writing honest music and making an honest living off it. It is possible.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

My favorite Dischord bands were Scream, Jawbox and Shudder to Think. Although, in college I really liked Rites of Spring and Beefeater, and in high school I liked Teen Idles, Minor Threat, Government Issue of course. All that Flex Your Head stuff.

But the first punk band to win my heart, and still my favorite rock band of all time, is Bad Brains. Best live act ever, especially on the Return To Heaven tour of 86-87. Unfortunately, their ideas on homosexuality border on Nazism.

IIRC from my DC days, it is pronounced it ghee pi-show-toe. At least that is how I remember Amy pronouncing it.

From my small part of the world: Sub Pop, Ninja Tune, Eighteenth Street Lounge, Matador, Kill Rock Stars, That Ann DiFranco lable (can't think of it now) and many more.

Let me add Dischord and Southern Records to your list, two more really great non-RIAA labels.

So, there's your solution. Start your own label, sign and promote your own bands, and charge $8 for the CD's! But why stop at $8? Why not $5! Certainly $5 will be enough! They're only $.50 to make in volume! Why, I'll bet we can pull another number out of our ass and say $2.50! But that's still ripping off the consumer to the tune of $2!

CD's are easy to get. Walmart has them. Target has them. Best Buy, Circuit City, even fucking Hot Topic. Are they expensive? You betcha, which is the crux of your argument. While some record labels believe in "fair pricing" and what not, the rest do not. The solution is NOT to download/infringe those who do not's properties. The solution is to either DO without, buy from those who DO, or DO IT YOURSELF.

Also Dischord

$12? Too expensive? Maybe for you, but I like my CD's in the $10-12 range. Dischord Records charges $10 for their CD's, pays their artists fairly, and puts out some really nifty stuff (although they also put out crap). If the other indies out there would adopt a similar business model, I'm sure the benefits of signing to majors will outweigh the importance of 1) getting paid 2) getting distributed and 3) getting exposure. Think about it: Would you rather sell 100k albums and make less than a buck each after your label "recoups" or CD's and make $5? You might make more money with the major, seemingly, but according to Albini in an oft-linked to article, more than likely you're still in the hole with the major. With the Indy, you're free and clear and you generally deal with people who love music. Also consider that one of the main benefits used to be distribution channels, I've found that most independents have very good distribution, and a lot of stuff can be special ordered for you. Here's another idea: fanzines. Fanzines have lots of reader reviews and can also help "point" you in the right direction. Find your local indie record shop. Hell, I think Tower even carries some of the bigger ones (MRR, Punk Planet, and Multiball cover it for me).

But I digress. $10-12 is perfectly A-OK for a CD for many people.

Here's hoping. But how will Apple react to labels like Dischord who sell records at a reduced price?

Anyway, sounds like good news. I await the details of the deal indies have to make with Apple with interest.

I am glad the CSM published this, but disappointed they did not mention pioneering Dischord Records. Dischord is truly "in the business of making music, not money." They charge fans exactly what they charge record stores and forego distributors entirely. Send Dischord $10 and they send you a CD, post paid. In some cases you can even get vinyl. Dischord are just good people.

Plus, Amy Pickering is a fox. :-)

"music nowadays completely SUCKS!!" is your opinion which you definitely have the right to say.

i must say though, that i find the statement wrong and seems to come from someone that fell out of the loop and doesn't "understand" the kids and their music. i am by no means a youngster and i can't say that i have watched mtv or listened to clear channel radio in years. there are many great artists out there and taking the DIY route that make compelling and innovative music. many can be found on such independent labels as:
matador records
desoto records
thrill jockey records
kill rock stars
dischord records

just to name a few, there are many many others. some places to buy independent music and distributors of:
parasol records
southern records
insound

Depends what style of music you like. Some good places to check out are sites like epitonic & insound. They carry or have reviews of lots of good indie stuff, and a wide range of styles.

If you like punk/indie rock/hardcore, check out Dischord, Reptillian, Ebullition, Level Plane, Magic Bullet, Kill Rock Stars, K Records, Drag City, Happy Couples Never Last, Three One G, Load Records, Robotic Empire, Sound Virus, Exotic Fever, Lovitt... There are hundreds more. Most of these labels have MP3s of their bands, so check em out and see if you like em.

If you like metal, check out Relapse or Hydrahead.

Some of my favorite bands (which you should be able to find in the above sites) include Tragedy, Orchid, the Oath, Saetia, Page 99, Usurp Synapse, Q and Not U, Fugazi, Lightning Bolt, Books Lie, Killsadie, Pig Destroyer, Mastodon... and the list goes on. (Note : I didn't check all the links, just typed what I was pretty sure they were. Use google if one you want is broken.)

A boycott wouldn't do much because almost no one would bother with it. Instead, try having a day or a week of protests - picketing outside theaters, chain record stores (Best Buy, Tower, Virgin, HMV, et al). That would be great because it's actually somewhat realistic and unlike simply not buying things, it sends a clear a direct message to the companies that people are pissed off at them, while it also educates consumers who don't know any better.

Of course you could always try buying indie music as well, though some have major label distributors, you can always find others.

check them out:
matador
dischord
touch and go
mint
southern
merge
alternative tentacles

or, for the fast route, hit the google listing of record labels:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Record_ Labels/

I didn't see Dischord on that list.
Can anybody say "hooray for taking a stand"?

Help support the indy DC scene!
Dischord

Would you please explain why $10.00 is too much for an artistic work? While you're at it, name five other mass produced serious artistic works that are sold for under $10.00.

Letsee...

Movie tickets in my area are $7.5, but I can't take the movie home and watch it whenever I want.

Books, if I wait for a paperback, then it might be under $10.00 depending on author, age, and genre.

Umm... That's all I can come up with.

Even Dischord, a well respected independent label, sells their CDs for $10. Kill Rock Stars, another indie, sells 'em for $11 - $13.

I will never buy another CD again.

That's silly. There are plenty of independent record labels.

• Smells Like Records - Sonic Youth
• Dischord - Teen Idles (Minor Threat/Fugazi)
• Merge Records - Superchunk

Those are just a few labels started by bands. They haven't turned evil and they consistently put out new and good music.

There's already an alternative to the major labels. You just won't become a mega-superstar as easily. I have little sympathy for bands that go with major labels, they have a choice.

I have just finished reading "Our Band Could Be Your Life" by Michael Azerrad which details the creation of the American independent music scene from 1981 to 1991 (when Nirvana "Nevermind" went #1 on the Billboard charts). In it there are many examples of independent artists (those not affiliated with the Big Six) trying to move up to a major label.

However there is also a strong segement of the underground that is vehemently independent: Steve Albini for one and his diatribe against the majors (The Problem With Music) or Ian MacKaye and Fugazi who assure all their products cost at most ten dollars and who have concerts for five. It seems that there has been a long standing (at least twenty years) of a "shadow industry" that stands for all the virtues of music making.

My question is this: what do you think causes the majority of the music buying public to only purchase from the Big Six (99% of all music I believe)? And what would the underground have to do to bite into that? Or should they even bother (the idea being someone who buys music from the mainstream isn't worth the effort)?

I'm pretty sure it IS possible for an artist to distribute music to their fans, without dealing with such unfair deals that the RIAA companies seem to hand out.

The first thing that comes to mind is Dischord Records, who's most famous artist is Fugazi. They have always done it their own way, with many fan-friendly policies such as setting a $5 max admission for all shows, and $10 postage-paid for all of their CDs.

Recently, Aimee Mann made her entire new album available online before it was released (published under her own label I believe).

So, apparently, it CAN be done. Why isn't this route more attractive to more artists concerned with losing control of their work? I understand the big companies have much more resources for advertising, etc, but is it worth it? Do you think maybe the RIAA companies really ARE adding sufficient value to the product to merit the sort of control they have?

"and the alternative distribution systemss don't work very well for anything but Britny and dubs of live Grateful Dead"

Touch&Go, Dischord, Sub Pop, Metal Blade etc are all record labels that each market to their own audience. I would guess that only a very small portion of the music released by these labels ever gets radio play, and can be impossible to find in all but the most open of record stores. Fans of the music find the the ability to order what they are looking for, though. Alternative means of distribution has always been how this muisc gets found.

Dischord has been artist run since the beginning and has always encouraged the consumer to order directly from them at a nice realistic price. This is a label that does it way more right than most, by being very active as an alternate distribution system.

On the topic of independent bands, the prototypical fiercely independent band that everyone should be listening to, if they aren't already, is Fugazi. Their music is incredible and they've held to their principles for fifteen years (I saw them here last year, only $5 and they played for over two hours!). Dischord Records, started by singer/guitarist Ian Mackaye is the model for independent labels. Check them out.

Also, a little semi-local plug, if you liked the Refreshments ("Down Together", "Banditos", and the theme song from "King of the Hill"), check out Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers (Roger was the lead singer of the Refreshments).

-J

> > What would be cool is if there was a "competing" record company(s) that weren't members of the RIAA that sold CD's at a decent price

> It'd be great, but only if the retailers sold them with the discount intact. The unscrupulous might simply see it as a way to jack up their own profits on those titles;

Dischord, the Washington DC based punk label, has a nice solution to this: All their CDs/LPS/etc have a little blurb on the back to the effect of "This CD is $11 postpaid from [mailing address here]." Of course, very few other labels do that.

As someone who involves himself in a lot of these activities, (I write code, I make music, I make art, no cola yet) I'm really excited and at the same time uncumfortable. I mean, of all these things, only code has shown a reasonable business model, and even that is up for debate.
I really appreciate the concept in code and I agree with it whole-heartedly (to the extent that I tried to talk my company into an open-source production model, but they went with flash instead.) But the thing is, I'm to old to go back to working at coffee shops and flogging my stuff in my off-hours. I'd really like to make a living at something productive that I enjoy. Until we get some clear ideas of how that's going to work for music and art, I'm going to stick to the Fugazi model of distribution

The answer is DIY, Do It Yourself, or find someone who Does It Themselves. Independant labels can be successful, and are usually working harder to give the artists their fair share in the deal. I've heard many people argue that independant labels can't be successful because they're not corporate giants. This is bad and dangerous thinking, in my opinion. If labels like Dischord (owned by Fugazi's Ian McKaye), or Alternative Tentacles Records (Jello Biafra's label) can be as successful as they have been, then it's only a matter of how one advocates what they are doing and how one advertises oneself. If artists are truly interested in their share of what is made from their music, they should work together to form other niche labels instead of making a pact with the devil.

One does not need one minute of radio airplay, any videos, major labels, or really high "promotion costs" to make descent honest living. Not only that, it is almost always MORE profitable for a band to rely on word of mouth than it is to rely on spending 100K on promotion costs.

Dischord Records (Fugazi) is the best example of a virtuous label, and one of the FEW truly "independant" labels which are world renouned. You could always buy their stuff cheaper than retail by mailorder, and this fact is printed on the back of all the records. I bought the newest Fugazi record for $10 post paid. No record store will EVER beat that price, so I bought the EP too. I highly recommend you go buy the entire Fugazi catalog, is the best bang-for-your buck you will find for visionary recordings.

"Why hasn't someone started a Non-profit record label. Could that work ? Or what about a "minimum profit" record label ? " Check out Dischord Records and more specifically Fugazi (Ian owns Dischord). All tapes and records $6 all CD's $9, postage paid. In many cities Fugazi can fill 5-10K shows and only charge $7 even with your ticket master surcharge (Fugazi is the main revenue stream for Dischord and they reinvest the money to the label so others can have their music heard).

"Why hasn't someone started a Non-profit record label. Could that work ? Or what about a "minimum profit" record label ? " Check out Dischord Records and more specifically Fugazi (Ian owns Dischord). All tapes and records $6 all CD's $9, postage paid. In many cities Fugazi can fill 5-10K shows and only charge $7 even with your ticket master surcharge (Fugazi is the main revenue stream for Dischord and they reinvest the money to the label so others can have their music heard).

Do you think they will make music that lasts or stupid rubbish that doesn't when they know they have a limited time to milk money from people?

Try a few of these : (notable bands in parenthesis)

Dischord Records : Independent for close to 20 years. (Minor Threat, Slant 6, Nation of Ulysses)
No Idea Records : punk, hardcore, emo (Small Brown Bike, Hot Water Music)
Troubleman Unlimited : post-punk, post-hardcore, post-rock (Camera Obscura, Red Scare)
Jade Tree : all about the emo rock (the Promise Ring, Cap n Jazz, Jets to Brazil)
Lovitt Records : Indie Rock, Emo, some Electronic-tinged (try Milemarker, 400 Years)
K Records : Indie, Folk, Other (Beck, Dub Narcotic Sound System, Sebadoh, IQU, Make-Up)
Kill Rock Stars : Indie Rock (Bikini Kill, Sleater-Kinney)
Three One G : crazed hardcore, No Wave, some electronic-type rock (try Black Cat #13, the Locust)
Ebullition : hardcore punk, some emo (try Orchid, Bread and Circuits, Reversal of Man)
HydraHead : the best in metal and straight edge(Botch, Cave In, Soilent Green)
Relapse : metal, hardcore, tough guy stuff. (Napalm Death, Exhumed)
Reptillian Records : a variety of sounds, from garage rock to grindcore to rock'n roll (Page 99, Electric Frankenstein)
Revelation : More hardcore and metal. (Rancid, Brandtson, Isis)
TrustKill : Tough guy stuff. (Poison the Well)

All guaranteed (as far as I know) to be RIAA free!

Josh Sisk

There are many sources out there to get good independent music. I would recommend going to: Artist Shop in order to get a better idea of what is out there. There is a company called Discipline Global Mobile that produces outstanding music and operates under a philosophy of *true* respect and cooperation with artists. They don't have contracts with their artists and they don't own the copyrights to their work so that the artist maintains their right to their work instead of some label owning it. While they make mainly terrible punk music, Epitaph records is an independent label that has some good artists on it...Tom Waits and Wayne Kramer (of the mc5) namely. For better punk music check out: Dischord Records. The owner of this label is in the band Fugazi and they're a truely amazing band that I would recommend to one and all.

It's nice to see that independent artists are getting some attention from a more mainstream audience in the wake of the general disgust the world seems to feel towards the RIAA. Independent labels have helped nuture less commerical bands that have often changed the way that music is defined. Bands like the velvet underground, king crimson, and joy division were all able to make an amazing contribution to music without the aid of a large record label.

In case you haven't already been;mp3.com is a good source of outstanding independent music. Anyway, I hope this helps someone find independent music that they enjoy...music is my passion in life and I love to help people find stuff that they might like :-) In all seriousness though, people should have been looking into this stuff *WAY* before the RIAA decided to go after Napster and for some reason started a boycott (one company sues another one and we side with the one because we honestly believe that they're 100% right in what they are doing or because they are giving us something we want...hm I wonder)...independent music was always there for you to hear if you were interested...or if you cared...

Best wishes,

Jon Swinghammer

How many SlashDot users/readers are there? Realistically? A few hundred?

At least 174,382. Take a look at your user page.

And will the boycott do any good? I don't know. Will I do it? Sure. For the same reason I vote, even though my vote a tiny drop in the bucket, often filtered through the electoral college... it's what I can do, so I do it. It's better than doing nothing at all.

you tell me that i make no difference
at least i'm fuckin' trying
what the fuck have you done?

-Minor Threat

A band on Dischord Records, a label which is completely independent of the RIAA, and who offers most of their CDs for $8, postpaid.

Don't believe everything you read. Take the last Pink Floyd tour (a very media-visible event). They "lost money" on the tour if you look at ticket prices. They more than made up on merchandise sales. Then they released a live album which was nearly ALL profit. Fugazi has been doing shows exclusively under $10 their entire career. They exist on t-shirt sales.

Although you're profoundly mistaken, you've brought up an excellent example. Fugazi have never sold t-shirts in their 12-year history. The reason they are so successful with $5 and $6 ticket prices is that they are self-managed, and run their own record label. (Not nearly as difficult to be profitable when you get all the profit from a $10 CD.) I understand they've sold over a million records, too. Even with their label Dischord's subsidizing many, many unprofitable bands, and a policy of only playing benefit shows in their hometown, they seem to do quite well.

Granted, as the finest rock-and-roll band in America they're a special case, and relentless touring doesn't work for every band, but their example is certainly instructive.