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Apple Wooing Smaller Labels
kalel666 writes "Apple has a big event planned for Thursday in Cupertino with hundreds of representatives from smaller indie music labels."
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This is great news, one problem with online music services always seems to be that they have only records of the big ones.
Done properly, this kind of move by Apple could eventually kill the big record labels by removing their need to exist. Bands could get their product to market without the absurd overhead imposed upon them by the big labels. You all know the scam -- the big label "advances" the band a seductively huge blob of cash, then leeches it all back in fees and charges, to where the band become their indentured servants.
It looks like that somebody from Fat Wreck Chords will be at this event, hopefully they join the iTunes Music Store.
A monkey is doing the real work for me.
This makes me very happy, more music to buy from Apple!
How many times have you bought a CD just because of one track that was worth having? You no longer need to do this. This is exactly what I've been looking for. The ability to do this has been around for several years but it takes a good company like Apple to stick thier nose on the line and do it.
This is how it should be.
http://www.xpurple.com
...the decision to join the iTunes store would come down to the compensation package that Apple is offering, which he has not yet seen
What else, other than a percentage of sales, can Apple offer to a music company, and whether this alone will make the more RIAAistic ones join this or any other online music distribution system
just wondering...
This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
Now we can have music that is worth a dollar a track to listen to.
I'd hope the indy labels insist on a bigger percentage of the 99 cents then the big 5 labels get.
This sounds like an excellent way to support small and local bands, something mp3.com had the potential to do, but failed completely.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
I'm pleased to see that they are aiming to provide a better cross section of music rather than just focusing on the big labels. My taste in music wouldn't be satisfied with just the majors, and I suspect a fair chunk of the /. readership would be the same.
The only problem I can see is that this doesn't go far enough. Independent labels are a good thing, but it seems they are only targeting the larger ones. When they get to the stage where the smallest labels and individual artists can coexist in the service with the majors, I'd be tempted to give it a go. I can't see the RIAA being too happy about coexisting with what is effectively the competition, though.
It's a ploy!!!
It's from the RIAA, they will all go there, and...and..KABOOM!!!
It's all a ploy from them, im sure!
is it possibly conscievable that, if EVERY mac owner (on average) is going to spend some bux on the music store, that Apple can actually subsidize the price of the hardware, and create a circle of more-and-more sales?
say if they found out an iPod owner chokes up an average of 300 dollars over the life of the iPod - then they can price the iPod at maybe a 150-200 discount from where they are right now - which means MANY more people would be buying iPods, and buying more music, and probably a few extra Mac sales on the way.
One heck of a job Jobs is doing.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Instead of paying EMI et al for the right to listen to a song I get to pay Apple.
;-)
Indie companies are still going to get ripped off they just get ripped of by an electronic distributor instead of an offline one.
Bands will still get very little cash for their effort.
Every band (or at least every indie label) should have their own website and take micropayments from customers direct. If you only had to pay a few pence for the rights to listen to a track you could share with your friends and if they like it they can go a pay for it as well.
One of the big reasons for piracy is the cost of tracks and how the cash is distributed. Micropayments with the vast majority going to the artists would eleviate these problems.
If any bands are willing to give this a try, get in touch I can help you get up and running for minimal cost
blog and junk
The synergetic effects would be impressive for both companies, as Apple would have their products available on the biggest online retailer on earth and would benefit from amazons itunes link up. Amazon would get exposure to the big - spending Apple users.
Clever..
I'd like to see more content from Roadrunner records. They own Slipknot, Machine head, etc.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
...which labels show up on iTMS, I'm hoping to not only see spinART and Rough Trade, but also smaller labels like Mezzotint who seem to have most of their old catalog out of print aside from vinyl and cassette. I've been saying since its debut, iTMS can be a vehicle for low budget labels to get digital media out with less cost than a run of discs.
------------ Ben Chroneos
it's not the RIAA, it's shawn fanning resurrected!
This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
As a non-apple user not living in the US, it will take a long time for me to get my grubby paws on the iTMS. If it was available in my neck of the woods, I wouldn't even think twice about buying a powerbook just to get at the music store.
The concept of small payments for songs will change the way people buy music. P2P apps have conditioned users to search for one song at a time for several years now, and paying a reasonable fee for a song isn't such an alien thought anymore at all. When Apple releases their x86-compatible client, together with a global release, the labels will have to face the music.
Online distribution will make distribution a non-issue, putting the indie labels on equal footing with the major players. The only advantage for signing on a major label will be the marketing machinery, and if iTMS would incorporate a net radio, even that would be a questionable advantage. Think about it: hearing indie songs on the net and actually being able to buy the single on the spot with one click will bring independents to the forefront.
Microsoft and AOL/Time Warner are running fast to get their own online Apple-like music store up and running, now that Apple's has been the success it has been -- doubly so since Apple's planning a Windows version of iTunes and the music store by the end of the year. Microsoft could probably beat them to market with a shoddy music store without even sweating.
So Apple needs to get ahead and stay ahead. To do that, ease-of-use isn't enough (or Apple would have the 95% user share, not Microsoft) -- they need to have the biggest, most comprehensive, most searchable library of online music anywhere. Consumers won't get iTunes if Microsoft's store is already installed, but they will get it if iTunes offers three times more songs.
I think that once Apple gets a large number of indie labels in the store, the rest will eventually come on their own. That, plus a $100 iPod of any size, will be all they'll need to stay ahead of the competition for some time to come.
I love this service but ach, it is going to be a nasty business to be in. Apple has entered center stage with a model based on .99 cent downloads. Way cool! But the most obvious way for someone to compete with them is to offer a download service at a lower price--so expect someone to do that shortly. Apple's margins haven't been published, but I'd guess they're razor thin to begin with. Now .99 cents is already so low that there isn't much further to fall--if a price war ensues, it won't be long before corporations are running online music services as a loss-leader. In Apple's case, it promotes their hardware; other companies will have other ideas. Eventually, these services might very well lead back to where we started--corporate sponsored music-on-demand, with free content that is used as a tool to peddle something else. Look at the way Apple chases these labels--this is brand-name association for them. Think Different, Think Nirvana, etc. It entrenches Apple deep into the popular culture. So those who want free music--it may be coming sooner than you think.
"Oh, the tragedy of math gone wrong. I can't even talk about it." -Wil Wheaton http://www.wilwheaton.net
Do you know that if you signed a contract for cell service two years ago you're probably paying out the wazoo! I'd much rather get 1 or 2 songs free with an iPod and see a monthly 2 for 1 special or 3 Indie songs for a dollar. The way that Apple will be able to expand this service and make even more money will be the Windows implementation and even better, a deal with Amazon. After all, one click is already implemented!
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
...that Apple is there to make money too. What is it that RIAA provide artists? Shelf space and promotion. What is it Apple can provide? Virtual shelf space and promotion.
So, if the Apple store really takes off (like, really making a dent in total sales in all outlets combined), you'll need them more than they you, and I'm sure it'll cost the artists.
Then again, an "expensive" shelf place (aka Apple takes most of the profit) right next to the big bands is probably better than no shelf space, or some obscure inde store noone knows of...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Mac fans tend to go rabid with new stuff, then slack off on the demand, at least with new hardware introductions. I wonder how much they are selling per day now...
One big hurdle you'd have to jump through first is the "take micropayments."
From a merchant perspective, micropayments SUCKS ASS because the cost of processing such a payment is more expensive than the amount being paid. You end up with the same problem you describe, except now you are forking all the dough to the payment companies.
besides, even if we grant what you imply, that Apple is merely the lesser of two evils - I must remind you that up until now, almost all major distribution channels for music wants to screw you both ways - pump the artists dry AND limit the consumer's rights to their stuff. Apple, if not given any other credit, must be commended on their effort to make sure you can do (for the most part) whatever you want with the music you bought.
not only that, having a central place where your stuff is catalogued and easily purchased is a good thing. It's much less likely somebody will stumble upon your little corner of a website - but much more likely if you show up when they browse through the genre that they like on a major catalogued site. Don't underestimate the necessity of advertising channels, and the distribution / payment channels as outlined in paragraph 2.
I think right now there are two battles - one between the consumers and the labels / distribution / retail channels, and one between the bands and the same. Apple mostly allowed the first battle to be won in favor of consumers - the bands are another battle altogether - and i am sorry to say, unless there are some serious reason why the consumers would care to get involved, the vast majority of them probably wouldn't.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
The amusing part is that for some unknown reason we "trust" Apple more than probably any other company to make this work. Heck, I havn't owned an Apple since the 80's and for some reason I just trust that Apple will do the right thing.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Sounds very promising - I just hope they can figure out a deal which pleases all the parties involved.
..On a second thought, wait until i cancelled my credit card plz. Otherwise i'll be ruined within 2 hours..hmmm matador..
As the Sub Pop guy mentioned in the article, they don't know about compensation yet, so basically it's all up in the air still.
I wonder how many people are working within the "iTMS-Department" - dealing and negotiating with all the smaller record labels, possibly including different deals on a per-band-basis, is certainly no small task.
Anyway, great to see such aggressive moves towards extending their catalogue.
Now hook up europe goddamnit =)
Shizzle Dizzle on the Amazon Rizzle!
Not all the good music is on small or indie labels. A very substantial majority of all the music is still owned by the big labels and is still not available anywhere. Putting that stuff online would probably make bigger waves than going after "Wisconson Pete's Record Hut" label.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
If iTunes sales for small labels are going too well, they might abandon eMusic, which would be a shame, since I like it better to d/l as many mp3s as I like for $10/month than paying $.99 per DRM-protected track. (Yes, Apple's DRM is pretty much acceptable, but no DRM is even better, and if you're downloading a substantial number of tracks each month, $10/month is better than $.99 per track.)
There are 48 employees in the iTunes/Audio app development and 14 in the iPod/sound hardware engineering depts at Apple.
indie tracks will be cheaper - like 2 or 3 for a dollar,
Who will know the names of the indy bands to go and search for them to find them?
People need to hear it before they like it and likewise buy it. So unless apple offers some kind of deal where you can listen to it for free once or something how can people tell if these bands are good or not?
You sure wont hear them on the radio.
Word of mouth, a small caption on a website and a guitar, you're on your way to a rock and roll career.
I honestly dont think this will change 80% of the users downloading things they have heard on the radio or seen on TV. But I am glad they are opening the doors for ALL musicians to have equal rights, atleast somewhere in the music industry.
[cx]
Next thing we'll see is probably "unsigned artists" in the music store. The first step for Apple to become a record label, or?
...we'll have something called iIndies.
No, one big reason for piracy is people don't like to pay for stuff. Cash distribution is a small reason for piracy.
I consider myself an average consumer. I probably average about 3 CDs a month. With the apple store, I can go to one spot and get a lot of good music with few restrictions and reasonable prices. And now, there will even be indie music.
However, I should give this up in favor of a plan that would involve me visting 20-30 web sites a month and entering my credit card information on web sites with God knows what security holes.
I am sympathetic to the plight of the indie artist, but an average consumer is not going to put in the kind of work you are suggesting. And with the apple store, they at least have a chance to make money on volume
That's what you pay up front for the little deck of cards itself, right? For the 10 gig version?
As gets said a million times whenever someone hints at Mac OS X getting ported to other machines, Apple's a hardware manufacturer. They think of the iLife suite of programs as a "loss leader" that encourages people to buy their hardware. In a lot of ways the new iTunes store is a way to encourage iPod sales -- and whether they would see it the other way around is a big question mark.
Maybe you're right, though. The iTunes for Windows thing does seem to break that model -- they'll be selling software (on the cheap?) to get people hooked on their content service, is the idea. Maybe music is really as completely different a direction and business model as you're saying...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
The Apple spokesman said it right with there is no timetable yet for when the songs could be added. "It's quality over quantity at this point,"
How many times have we seen Microsoft scramble to put up just ANY product that mimicks Apple or any other company, no matter how shoddy it was, and then use their deep pockets and name to further advance it. Windows 3.1 was hideous but they had to put SOMETHING out there against Apple and then keep revising it until it got better and people thought it was actually a good, innovative product. Same with the WinCE-powered handhelds. Palm was doing fine (ok, it was a portable OS going against Palm's organizing OS, but stick with me here) and then MS introduced WinCE which wasn't that hot either but after a few revisions it's turning out to be ok. Microsoft simply doesn't want to be left out and they're racing ahead with AOL/Time Warner now to ensure that doesn't happen.
Including indie labels is a brilliant move on Apple's part. Just think of the demographic of most Mac buyers anyway. Slightly creative, free-thinking, willing to pay a bit more for quality. It's the Mac owner that knows who is on these indie labels already.
And let's not forget Jobs and his pull in the entertainment industry. People there WANT to do business with him, from the artist level all the way up to managment. I just hope enough strategic alliances can be made so that a solid foundation can be built and not be torn away by a shoddy imitation with lots of money.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
One of the reasons Apple (I think) is doing so well is that the DEM isnt draconian. With MS/AOLTW/whoever, they have no vertical integration. How do I take a DRM'd WMP or Real Media clip and put it on a portable device like an iPod. Any iTMS competitor needs the following..
1. The ability to get the same DRM terms as Apple (own the song, burn to CD, etc).
2. Have a way to listen to it away from the computer (burn to CD, iPod like device, etc).
3. Same $1/track price.
4. Large selection.
Leaving out any of these items will doom the company to failure.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
There once was a woman at the beach. Her son was swept away by the tide.
She prayed to God to have her son brought back. Suddenly, the tide changes, and her son comes sweeping back in. The woman looks up at the heavens and says "He had a hat!"
I am sure there is a message there somewhere...
There could be NOTHING gayer than some kludge out there in /. land who seeks a more meaningful life by frantically spamming all the Apple stories with mac=gay nonsense.
Exactly what kind of a life does such a person(s) have? Gotta be gayer than Apple, coming to you LIVE at age 34 from MOM'S BASEMENT....My bet anyway.
Does Apple or anyone else post iTunes' best selling tracks and albums on a website? I'm curious to see the difference between the music industry charts and what iTunes users buy. I know you can see it from within iTunes but I am not yet an Apple owner.
Maybe so. RealNetworks announced their (listen.com-hybrid) service last week, at 79 cents a track. Also -- oops -- $10 a month subscription. It's amazing how the competition doesn't seem to recognize that subscription fees are the obstacle. Apple's buck-a-song is just so easy to get your head around. We want to pay for songs, not to belong to some Columbia records club with monthly dues. The iTunes interface is fine, but it's the per-song-only thing that sells it over the alternatives.
The other big bar to get over for other services is the licensing agreements. It sure looks like Steve Jobs used his name to get through obstacles that held everyone else up. It's kind of a race, too -- if someone else can get those same deals before the Windows version of iTunes comes out, maybe they can stake out the market share to avoid Apple's winning the new, bigger market of 'doze users. We'll see.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Apple'd love to. The record companies are worried about licensing agreements for anything but US distribution.
(Just how frightened is the RIAA of its customers? They're literally afraid to sell you something. Jeepers.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Bring on Fat Wreck Chords. One of the best and most innovative record companies. The bring out smaplers with about 20 songs on it and then stick a label on it saying (here in oz) 'Pay no more than $7 for this cd' which was cheap as chips. And the albums said no more than $20. THey have all the good punk bands. I love to be able to buy some NOFX tracks that were only on samplers etc.
"How did the cat get so fat"
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
The trick would be to provide content partnering with mp3.com, so that any fool with a computer and a guitar could stream off of iTunes and collect a royalty, including ME!
stuff |
Add to that "Don't show Britney songs to people in the EU" stuff in the database and the front end, fronting European licenses for completely different music... I can see it, and I'm sympathetic, but you might not want to hold your breath.
(Not that the world doesn't need Britney-filtering routines to be written, you understand. It's a noble cause, and if anyone's going to accomplish it, it'll be Generalissimo Jobs.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Maybe this is the secret of the tie-in with Amazon that's been rumoured.
:)
Imagine you browse the iTMS, and you look at famous bands X, Y and Z... Then you can get a frame/tab/whatever saying 'people who liked them, also liked ABC Band, a new Indie group from Hicksville...' which is what Amazon already do. They have a HUGE database of people's tastes!
THAT would be good... And with a 30sec preview, you'd be willing to risk $0.99 on it.
Or maybe the 'smaller' bands get less cash from Apple, so they sell at $0.75 instead?
Of course you could also choose to upload 'statistical information' about your iTunes library itself, and they could check your tastes and then tell you 'XYZ have a new album out, and FGH band are similar in style...'
Sounds like an Apple kind of idea to me - making it easier to find stuff you like.
Mark
PS If anyone from Apple is reading this, contact me for low, low pricing on licensing my ideas
Liked this comment? Why not buy me something nice
I've been enjoying EMusic for more than a year now -- dozens and dozens of indie labels put up albums and songs, for a flat rate of $21 / month, as non-DRM mp3s. I *love* this service -- it's helped me find a lot of new bands because it's subscription-based (and thus there's no risk when downloading a song by somebody new).
Indie labels stand to make a lot more money off of Apple than they do EMusic -- and I imagine they'll flock to it. While I support this in principle, Apple's DRM, lack of try-before-you-buy, and (lets face it) expense really rubs me the wrong way.
(Sure, mod me down, like I care.)
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
I know a significant part of the 99 cents a song goes to process the credit card transaction. Why doesn't Apple offer people a discount to prepay larger amounts? Say, pay $50 at once, and get to download 60 songs at your leisure?
For example, let's say that it costs Apple $.20 + 3% of the transaction for each purchase (I'm sure someone can correct me with more exact figures.) So, if I download sixty individual songs, Apple has paid $13.80 in credit card fees on $59.40 in revenue. They now have $45.60 to put towards licensing, other expenses, etc for those sixty downloads.
Now let's see if I paid $50 upfront and got to download sixty songs. Apple only pays $1.70 in credit card charges, and has $48.30 to put towards the other expenses for those sixty downloads. In addition to saving $2.70, Apple also just generated some goodwill on my end because I appreciate getting ten extra songs on the deal.
Multiply that relatively significant savings by the huge volume that iTunes generates (even more when it's released for Windows [and hopefully Linux]), and Apple could definitely help pad that margin a little.
- Neil Wehneman
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
I agree to you up to a certain point. However, we are not dealing with a commodity that has an ever decreasing price. The labels have been AMAZINGLY effective (even to the point of price fixing) to keep the price of music at a certain amount. This isn't going to change on-line. iTunes, Real or whoever else enters the market will have to deal with the price inflexibility of the music labels.
Sure someone could *try* and sign record labels at $0.50 a track, but why would they do that when Apple will give them $0.65 a track? Even indy labels and bands will realize that a higher selling price benifits them (as long as their product sells at that price).
Labels won't shoot themselves in the foot and lower their price. Developing a music store including DRM, signing labels, and all that jazz is a VERY expensive proposition. The price isn't going down any time soon.
I definitely like the idea here, and I'll most certainly use it. But I think what isn't being mentioned is that indie music fans are inherently diehard about their music. They like that they don't generally see their bands on MTV. They like that the shows are in small, smoky bars. And many of them, myself included, like the idea of being in their town's local indie music store, flipping through wooden crates to find the gems they'd heard about from friends but not had a chance to listen to yet. Buying the cd, and reading the liner notes as it spins for the first time. And for the most diehard, buying the vinyl. I'm all for techno-progress, especially in the archaically defined entertainment industry. But don't expect the addition of these smaller labels to produce the kind of numbers for apple that the launch with the big 5 did.
There is a link to a MTV story on /. homepage?!
Even better, a synthesis of Apple's 'sell a small number at a high margin', and Amazon's 'make a loss on each sale, but make up for it in volume' buisness models might make a highly profitable company! Or alternatively one which sells a small volume at a loss...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Apple picked $0.99 because it's a critical price point in the minds of consumers. It's as high as you can get and be less than a dollar, and $1.00 is already considered a pittance by most consumers -- especially those used to $15 CDs.
On the average, most consumers won't differentiate between $0.89 and $0.99, any more than they'd shop at a different store to pay $11.89 instead of $11.99. Even $0.75 isn't such an improvement over $0.99 psychologically speaking -- a competitor would have to go as low as $0.50, or close to it, to take customers from Apple on price alone.
Besides, we're selling bits here, not products. "Razor-thin margins" don't actually exist with virtual merchandise. Apple's had a nationwide network for distributing media quickly for some time now -- specifically, for QuickTime movie trailers -- and *that* was for zero profits. All they can do with this store is make money.
As we all know, Apple currently has the largest online music store and they will be releasing a version of iTunes for Windows in the near future. We also know that Microsoft will be coming out with their own music store in the near future. It's not enough for Apple to get there first on Windows, or have the better store, or the better selection, or better rights management. Sheeple care fuckall about rights management (though this could make for a lovely wakeup call if handled improperly). Apple needs to get far ahead of Microsoft and stay there. In order to do this, yes, they need the better store, the wider selection, more freedom with the songs. But they need to make sure that Microsoft won't be selling songs for $0.49/each with a $5/mo fee or something. RealNetworks's new store will flop not because of the lack of rights, but because the price isn't low enough to counteract the lack of rights. So Apple needs Microsoft to screw up, or at least not abuse their monopoly power.
The other thing Apple needs to do, and this is crucial, is to make iTunes on Windows NOT SUCK. Who here has QuickTime on Windows? Who hates it? Who would like it a heck of a lot better if it weren't so slow and buggy? Yep. Most of us. If iTunes for Windows isn't substantially better than QuickTime, and for that matter even Windows Media Player, Apple doesn't stand a chance in the long run.
That being said, Apple is definitely heading toward a Windows client for their store in the relatively near future. Once that happens, I hope the indie labels don't get greedy and dump eMusic for a little extra cash at iTunes Music Store. I know that personally, I check eMusic first if I want a track to download. If it's not there, I'll check iTMS. If it's not there, a P2P network.
Also, I think Apple might have the clout to attract some of those indie labels that eMusic just couldn't land (SubPop,Dischord and Fat Wreck Chords). (on a side note, NoFX releases their stuff on Epitaph, which *is* on eMusic)
yay... the best music ever! :D
Homepage - Store
In addition to being home to some of the best bands ever, they put together some awesome compilations.
Well, I dunno about the whole of the iTMS shoppers, but here's how I see it:
Guy gets paid at the first of the month/budgets at the first of the month (I'm the latter, as I get paid weekly).
Guy goes, "Time to buy music now that I've planned/can afford it."
Guy buys music.
"Well, that's it for this month."
Some spread out their purchases, others buy stuff after working out their bills, and then chill with what they've bought until the next time they're financially comfortable blowin' some scratch on some tunes.
S'how I see it, anyway.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
What kind of selection does Real have?
I'm curious, even though I think that anyone who supports Real should be drawn and quartered for conspiring to commit crimes against humanity.
If apple partners with amazon then people
could use amazon the create their own record
stores without having to worry about the
plumbing.
I dont own a Mac. Any Mac. Me thinks you are the one I was referring to in the above reply. Nothing better in your life than to spam /. with mac=gay BS? Pity.
Oh yeah...
Maybe they can make their new motto "From one old hippie to another."
Yes because the MS music store is.... not there. In fact, if you want to use a similar music store on Windows, I hear the iTunes store will be coming to your platform, sometime next year.
I can just imagine Steve Ballmer trying to negotiate content deals with hundreds, eventually thousands of world-wide record labels, each with a monopoly of their own, each able to sidestep his technology, and each with a lot of experience in bruising negotiations over IP rights. Now *those* are meetings I'd like to see.
And yes, I *am* feeding the troll. This particular one is just so funny. B-)
Please, don't feed the trolls.
So, Apple is going to get indie labels. Good for them. Matador and SubPop are relatively large anyway, and they don't do much to help the artist financially.
emusic is fine and well, presuming you can bet they have enough music you'll like to justify a subscription. Most folks can't.
Lulu.com started by Bob Young formerly of RedHat actually empowers the artist. The artist gets to decide what distribution format to sell in, set their own price, and set their own royalty. The artist also gets to decide if they want to use the Founder's Copyright or any other license instead of traditional copyright.
It's putting the artist back in control of their work, something Apple hasn't considered. Apple just does the same thing as Sam Goody's or Tower, only over the internet. Big deal. The only nice thing they've got with it is the iTunes integration.
I firmly believe this to be a Good Thing. Indy labels, as I have said for a long time, are where real music is produced. But, man I just have a hard time seeing a label like Lookout! becoming part of this Apple deal. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a good move... to me there's no such thing as selling out if some big company wants to help get your product out. Hell, I'd freak out if I came across an Isocracy MP3 (anyone know Samiam? Well, this is Samiam before they were called Samiam... its so much fun being an old punk -- conjuring up useless bits of information like this).
Now, if Apple would include labels like Victory Records, Revelation, and some of the other hardcore labels, then we'd be talking here!
sad robot making broken music
I don't know if it's a typo or what, but $21/ month for eMusic??? I'm paying $9.99 a month cuz I signed up for a year. Month to month is $15 or so. . . . Why $21?? Is there some pricing plan that I'm missing?
apple should make an area of the store that is just bootlegs and live exclusives.
they should make a project to relicense (or whatever the term would be) these materials if they were illegal in the first place with the artist and apple as a publisher.
most people i know that want music off the web (eg, p2p) want stuff they cannot get else (rare)
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
This fits the classic pattern of Apple prophesy: "Sure, the Apple product is great, but we know that sooner or later Microsoft (or someone else) will come out with something that's 75% as good. So why bother with the Apple version? Besides, how could Apple possibly make money on this. Poor Apple, they're doomed!"
Every time Apple has tried something new, the prevailing sentiment has been, "that's wonderful, but it'll never keep Apple alive." Somehow they've managed to stay alive for quite a long time, and they've got a pretty loyal customer base. Maybe Apple management isn't so stupid after all.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Some bands may choose to cater to that core audience and "stay small" - but I doubt many would turn down the chance at a major tour if one of their "indie releases" suddenly turned into a popular download.
I personally have zero use for iTunes - I don't have a Mac and even if i did I'm not gonna pay a dollar a goddamn track for RIAA label downloads locked into a DRM'd format. But if Apple can sign a bunch of bands and release them in a more consumer friendly format (ie >256kbps MP3) then I'd be all over that. What would really rock is if they'd sign some of the international artists and DJs I've grown attached to but who get little to no respect in the US - like Garmarna, Linda, NOME, Oceania, Juno Reactor, Natacha Atlas, Digiweed, etc. If I could pay a buck a track to download HQ tracks from artists I like and I knew with some certainty the artists were getting a significant benefit from my purchase, my opinion of iTunes would change dramatically - and likely would for many, many others as well.
Where do I sign up?
I have been using iTMS and I am quite pleased with it, but there is more that they could do and *should* do. Ultimately, the huge and useful role that labels play is getting the music exposed to people. People don't want to pay the labels any money because they don't think that they are doing anything. This just isn't true. How am I supposed to know to buy a song unless I've heard it a couple of times. A huge amount of work and money goes into putting on concerts and radio play and store placement.
1. When It comes down to it, a 30 second clip just isn't enough to sell me on a song. In the old model, one hit song could be the catalyst for selling a number of other good songs on the album (although it is often the case that one hit song sells a number of crappy ones). If this model becomes more popular, then each song will need to be marketed individually. That requires a lot of effort. Apple could help by providing radio stations based on it's catalog.
2. I think it could really take advantage of other people providing some level of predistribution. I could certainly see myself going through web sites that provided editorial content that reflected my own personal tastes. If people could get a small bit of the cut for pointing me to good music, they would be more inclined to put some effort into it. (This is similar to what amazon does now, but I don't think that books lend themselves as well to this sort of activity).
3. I don't think they should necessarily follow the Amazon system of rating things - which has devolved into pretty much a one or five star rating system that is mostly useless. I do like reading people's comments, though. Still, finding a central source for advice that I trust vs weeding out the person I trust from a list of unknowns is less than effective.
4. It is still unclear to me how I get to keep this music going forward. I don't plan on buying another computer for another year, but what about then? How do I move it? I still use my linux box alot and can imagine there is a point where I will use it exclusively in the future. I still paid for the music, I want to take it with me.
sean
Heres the same billboard top 50 singles for this week, note the differences (for example miss independant comes in at 3 on apples chart, 22 on the bilboard chart)
Wow, you've got a rip-off music store, and us poor Windows users are left with everything else. Boo hoo...
You can piss and moan about not getting paid for every track downloaded, but 100% of nothing still ain't gonna pay the bills. Ten percent of ten thousand downloaded tracks is still a decent chunk of change, especially when it opens the door to gigs at The Palace.
You really think that's more interesting that adding a ton of available music? I don't find that interesting at all, that's about as interesting as the partnership between Toys 'R Us and amazon.
sig:
See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.
Funny, I don't see $10 albums as a rip-off, nor $0.99 singles. Since it took less than a month for the iTunes store to sell more music than all the other services combined, perhaps the other services that you're stuck with on Windows right now just suck?
Sure, but which direction?
Music is great, maybe even the "killer ap" the previous poster named it, but Apple must focus on being a computer company first. Apple is in a tricky position. If they maximize the music sales by including Windows (Linux would not add much), they compromise the drive to buy Macs. They could spin off a company devoted to the music sales, but the spin off could probably maximize sales by adding WinXP and minimize costs by dropping OSX! Oops.
to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
Even if you're able to pay for a single song on Real without subscribing, you have to pay per song you download to CD!
That means that if you want to keep a song, you have to burn it to CD, then rip it, then manually enter the track information - all to just keep the song in your library, and all at whatever bitrate Real supports (not sure if they are good or bad in this area).
With the Apple service, I can buy a song and I really own the electronic copy of the song to start with - complete with ID3 style information and cover art.
To summarize, with Real you are paying for a single physical copy that is difficult to manage electronically. With Apple you are paying for a digital copy with all of the benefits implied by owning a digital copy, including being able to make many different mix CD's and keeping information about the song with the song.
People constantly discount the workflow, if you will, of music ownership - that's why Apple's store is so popular. It finally achieves some of the promise of digital music distribution that has been so obvious for so long.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you combine Apple's iTunes with Amazon, you can have the choice of a physical CD or virtual copy for less. Also, it could mean that you have preview samples of EVERY song on a CD, not just a few (the way Amazon works now).
Furthermore, you get the benefit of Amazon's user comments. It would also be pretty easy to add Amazon product information into the iTunes store via the web services interface Amazon supports today.
It's an amazing combination that would really boost both companies. We'll have to see if it turns out to be true!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You realize, that Mac users have access to everything else as well, but we aren't limited to it.
A user-friendly, economically viable alternative, actively supported by both the industry (in the widest sense -- by this I mean the indies as well as the RIAA goons) and consumers should be a welcome thing, regardless of platform.
(We should also assume that, not being a Mac user, you haven't used the Apple Music Store -- so your satisfaction with the existing services should be taken on spec, as it were.)
Porting iTunes to Windows isn't exactly breaking Apple's business model. Remember that QuickTime has existed on Windows forever and continues to do so. The iTunes music format is a QuickTime 6 (integrated into MPEG-4) standard (yeah standards!). Also, offering the iPod for Windows fits into all of this nicely.
Multimedia has been one of Apple's decent successess (ie. Final Cut Pro, iDVD, etc.) and thank God Steve Jobs recognizes it and is strategically leveraging it.
Murray Todd Williams
Don't think for a second the first thing Steve Jobs says is, "Drop eMusic." At $15-20 for 2000 downloads of these exact same artists that will be represented in the future, this obviously undercuts Apple's product. So, if the labels decide to go with the Hyponotic One, eMusic will stop being a very attractive service for indie music lovers. Sign up now, while you can, because it won't be there for long.
Does having the ability to "facilitate the introduction of an artist to a prospective fan" necesarily mean that you are a record label?
.. Shit! That will give the company exact knowledge of what music you like .. thereby making it so much easier to suggest other artists to you!
Buying music at Apple music store saves the songs in a folder at Apples servers, right?
I think they have struck the mother loade...
There is a very nice article by Jonathan Rentzsch with more details on the way credit card payments work and how Apple could (in theory) reduce the costs more than they do now: Credit Card Micropayments
I've had it for a few months, and it is definitely worth it. It doesn't have the big name stuff, but what it *does* have is variety. I was never one to listen to hip-hop, but I found some I liked. I found some amazing jazz. Bluegrass. Everything on Matador.
Basically, if you want the latest pop album, look somewhere else, but if you want to expand your horizons, it's great.
Planning a major lawsuit against Apple Computer, perhaps?
-- Boycott Shell
I think it is a good idea and a sign of things to
/,s meta-moderation to prevent abuse people will be able to trust the suggestions.
come. Signing up Indie labels is a good first
start, but it could go so much further.
Technology and the internet have made it so that
anyone can create and publish their own "content"
using comodity hardware and software.
I would like to see iTMS deal with individual
artists. If they are paying 65cent per song to
the labels then the artists should have a
choice. Either sign up to a label for a bit of
cash up front to produce your record and end up
owing the label money and having no rights to the
content you have created, or deal directly with
iTMS.
Suppose they charge $50 to include your
track in their catalogue, I think there has to be
some barrier to entry. $50 covers converting the
track to AAC, including it in the database,
sampling 30secs for a preview and inputting the
infomation / label notes / artwork etc.
If I had any talent I could make my own music,
sample, edit record and master with a PC in my
bedroom/studio, then upload it to apples server.
I have then placed my music on an open market on
a level playing field with the major labels
offerings.
Linking by genres, similar artists
etc. will allow people to find my music by
chance, the 30 second preview allows people to assess its quality. If the like it they download
it and I get 30-65cents per download.
If they include the features like amazons user
rating, with
A system like amazons sales rank will show the
most popular tracks in a genre. The most downloaded, the most sampled. the most searched for etc. If they can provide the bandwidth of Google to support the databases it could become so useful.
Imagine if they could sample all the music. A
"You humm it I'll find it" system could be
introduced, find any existing music with a melody you just thought up.
Of course if just anyone can be listed it places
a burden on Apple data storage capacity, but I'd
imagine a system where if no one downloaded a
track in a two month period you would have to pay again to have it remain in the database. They don't want to store 3Mb of the sound of someone farting, that no one ever downloads
The only problem I see in a system like this
would be plagerism (sp?). Someone could download
a track, upload it as their own and then reap the rewards of someone elses work. There would have to be a system in place to counteract this.
Prevent dupes as it were.
If the system becomes really popular perhaps
comercial radios would pay apple to play the top
rated tunes. "Here's something that 100,000
people downloaded last week" The artists would
only benefit from such exposure.
Ideally the artist would also have a choice about the DRM system as well. Should I sell unprotected songs at 69cents each or protected songs at 99cents?
If all this could be implemented it would just
show the RIAA and the major labels how irrelevent they really are. What would you get by signing up to a label? Money upfront, production, promotion, distribution, and access to the market. Apple can provide the promotion, distribution, and access
to the market for you and you the artist retain
the rights to your work. There are less middlemen so you can also reap a greater return on your sales. Start with $50 up front and if you do well you can pay for all the equipment, expertise etc. that you need to produce a professional quality product.
Yes you are removing one monopoly at the expense
of creating another, but one founded on a much
fairer basis with one degree of separation
between the producer and the consumer.
Yes all this can be done, and there are similar systems already, MP3.com etc. but I think that the difference here is that the store will have all the content from the major labels as well. That will get people to come and browse, look around and find similar music from independants that they might like.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
(Mercury News Classifieds, April 1st, 1976)
Everything must go! We have homebrew computer kits and blue boxes for free long distance. No hurry! We expect this sale to last for at least 27 years.
I think their selection is tolerable. I have been able to find a little bit of most things, i.e., they might only have two of Jane's Addiction's 4+ CDs, but they do have something. I am only on my third day of this trial period, but I am actually extremely pleased with the service.
p l d/Reggae
The software is typical Real bloat, and it is unconfigurable to an annoyting degree. It not unattractive, and it is fairly easy to use. It can definitely be improved, but it's tolerable.
What I have started to fall in love with are Real's streaming channels. Here are the categories of channels:
Rock/Pop
Alternative/Punk
Rap/Hip-Ho
Soul/R&B
Country
Jazz
Electronica/Dance
Wor
Classical
Oldies
Vocal
New Age
Sacred/Gospel
Blues
Folk
Easy Listening
Soundtracks/Musicals
Children/Holiday
Each category has somewhere between 1 (Children/Holiday) and 19 (Rock/Pop) channels. I have been listening to the Indie Rock and the Ambient channels a lot at work, and I've been surprised and delighted with Real's quality of song selection. Not only do they play songs by some of my favorite artists in these genres, but they have introduced me to some really wonderful new artists. I've already bought two CDs of artists I discovered on this service. Also, a small box displays interesting tidbits of information about each song/artist as the song is being played.
I don't care if I can't copy the songs to my mp3 player of burn a cd. That's not why I want an MP3 service really. If am going to buy music, I am just going to buy a cd. I have a good backup that truly can sound better than any mp3 version (on the right equipment), and I can do anything I want with the mp3s I rip from it. If I am paying for music, I don't want restrictions.
With the Real service, I am not really paying for music. I am paying for a very high quality, on-demand, highly configurable Internet radio station.
For $10/month (only $5 for first three months), I get unlimited streaming access to over 325,000 songs. I can't listen to those songs without a computer and broadband connection. That kind of sucks, but it's only $10/month.
Also, you can burn certain songs to CD for $.79, as has been pointed out elsewhere, but I haven't really explored this much, as I have had no desire.
Anyhow, I highly recommend this service to people who feel similar to me. I really just want a badass Internet radio station, and Real's Rhapsody service is the best attempt I have seen so far.
There's a great tool available to make sure what you're buying is really from an independent label, RIAA Radar: http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/ Basically it takes advantage of Amazon's web services. You go to the Amazon page for whatever album you're interested in, then click on your RIAA Radar bookmark and you get a rating telling you the afilliation of the album's label. Very handy, and nicely free!
TOTALLY INSIGHTFUL.
Don?? Mr. King, is that you?!?
Dumbass, think before you type, ok?
make a loss on each sale, but make up for it in volume
Oh yeah, that's fucking brilliant. We lose money on each sale, so let's a sell lot of them and lose even more money! Dipshit, volume sales are the last thing you want when you're losing money per sale. They can't make a profit unless they profit from each sale (on average).
The fucking morons they let in here, it blows my mind.
I guess my label is too small to be on Apple's radar. Anyone know who to contact at Apple to get an invite to the Thursday shindig?
The fucking morons they let in here, it blows my mind.
How true. Some of us are even stupid enough to reply to an idiot AC...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Why should Apple care at all about EMusic? It's subscription, Apple's store is per-song. They can co-exist pretty well. If you get tired of a monthly fee, you can always turn to the Apple Store, and if you like some stuff that's not on EMusic while you're subscribing you can still buy stuff from the Apple store.
Probably a good split would be really small bands on EMusic, and then large to small bands on the Apple store.
Apple is not Microsoft, they do not crush people just for the hell of it or demand utter domination in a market space.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Underage Russian girls in schoolgirl skirts making out with each other on stage. What more do you need to know?
We be clubbin'!
Yep - I agree. Right now, there's so much "big label" music still missing from Apple's store, I think they've got *plenty* of additions to make on existing fronts - before even starting to delve into the unknown labels.
EG. The other night, I did a search on a few artists that came to mind, and they had NOTHING available from any of these:
Weird Al Yankovic
Lords of Acid
Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction
Then I searched for Roger Waters, and they only had 2 complete albums of his, only 2 songs from "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking", and absolutely nothing from his latest album.
Oh yeah, that's fucking brilliant. We lose money on each sale, so let's a sell lot of them and lose even more money!
"Sure we're losing money on each sale, but we're making it up in volume!" is an old joke in business circles. You're supposed to recognize that it's absurd, and everyone knows this. Then you smile quietly to yourself, smug in the knowledge that you weren't the AC that decided to jump on it.
It's also sometimes a deliberate part of a business plan. A business sets up a proof-of-concept pilot assembly line, and starts selling new-type widgets below the initial manufacturing cost. If they can show that there is sufficient demand, then it is easier to get funding (sell shares, borrow money) to scale up production. Economies of scale kick in, and widgets become profitable at the original price point.
For Amazon, they had to sell at a loss, just to prove that they could get people to buy things (lots of them) online. Now that their volume is up, they're enjoying some economies of scale. Their practices (faster shipping, better distribution, better order picking, etc.) have also improved with practice--even while they were selling at a loss, they were learning their business, and improving their efficiency.
~Idarubicin
Apple is different than Sam Goody's or Tower.
You can pay for what you use, rather than for the entire thing, and you can sample everything before you buy.
Can you only buy individual tracks off CDs at Tower?
Can you listen to a 30 second preview before you buy at Sam Goody?
And on the distribution side, Apple has done something good for the artists; they cut out 4 levels of distribution:
Manufacturing
Packaging
Distribution
Shelf Space
and replaced it with one:
Distribution
Reduce costs means increased margins, somewhere, for Apple and for the artists, as well as the labels.
GPL Deconstructed
So Apple needs Microsoft to screw up, or at least not abuse their monopoly power.
Hoping Microsoft doesn't abuse their monopoly power is like hoping the Pacific Ocean won't be wet.
It tracks the top 100 tracks and 10 albums. But it also does the same for each genere (rock/classical/folk..).
,...
Its also interesting to see the "people who bought this bought.."
Listeners who bought "Pavorati the early years" also bought Def Lepords album X.
Listener who bought Def Lepords X also bought the Moody Blues
etc.. etc...
Then Apple doesn't loose much. That's what I'm saying, there's room for both where EMusic takes on people too "small" for Apple. If Apple does decide to house ever bit of music everywhere then it's more of a problem, but it's a long time before that happens!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Personally, I think we'll always have choice. Eventually someone will wake up and understand why Apple's music store is popular, and duplicate it... actually, I'm almost sure at some point in the future one or more major labels will probably pull out of the Apple store when they get greedy enough and figure they can do the same thing on their own. The Apple could just have iTunes turn into an aggregation point that makes it easy to shop at all the various stores that pop up. So I see Apple more as the shepherd of the API that links all these stores.
Of course, the chances are good that the first few record companies to pull out will come slinking back to Apple after dismal failures when the try the MS route to DRM. So in the meantime at least you have a company that cares about the consumer manning the helm.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thank got for meta-moderation.
Kevin Fox
When this came out, people bitched that that it was only the RIAA. Now, what is it, a few weeks later and they're going after independent labels, but they're only going after the larger ones, so people are bitching about that. A few weeks from now, and when they do go after the smaller labels, people are probably going to bitch about how they haven't fellated every bass player who is living in his parent's garage.
Does anyone know what happened at the meeting? Or where we can get some info on it? Yeah, it's fine and dandy to say "there's a meeting", but what the hell happened? It's almost as bad as saying "The Steelers are playing the Eagles in the Super Bowl tomorrow" and then hearing nothing else about it. Ayeeeee! I need to know...please...help...me...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang