Slashdot Mirror

What's to look for? This is Slashdot. Build what you want or buy it.

Run a single terminal server and you get your wish. Central storage, easy backup, and if a client dies it's easy to replace.

https://www.edubuntu.org/docum...

You can boot your clients from USB flash drives without touching your existing OS while you're learning how to get your system as you prefer it.

I think often because people just say KDE as if it provides the answer. Better to say https://kubuntu.org/. I personally go with Kubuntu, although I do swap around with Gnome and have both accessible with just a configuration change at bootup.

So the answer is not so much go with KBE as go with Kubuntu. One leads to more questions and the other leads to a direct simple answer, even if you already use https://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://edubuntu.org/ or https://lubuntu.net/. After all those links it would be mean not to put in https://www.canonical.com/.

Linux == choice ;).

That being said, it is a shame we don't have the right symbols on your keyboards.

If you're using a Unix system, the programmable Compose key can be very useful. I generally map it to the Menu key and have a stripped-down custom .XCompose file with mnemonic bindings for the most common Unicode mathematical operators, Greek letters, currency symbols, and accented characters.

Of course, to use it you also need a programming language which allows custom operators with Unicode symbol characters. I recommend Haskell.

Work on porting to a cross-platform engine/library first. Without that your work will be much harder. And bullet points 6 and 7 in your system requirements are showstoppers.

Also, you may want to talk to organizations like Edubuntu, OLPC, and RPi since their primary focus is education.

Where I live, there is an organisation called Camara doing something very similar with a an OS called Edubuntu

http://edubuntu.org/documentation/ltsp-live

In fact, there is the simplest setup possible. they even have Live CD images to get your setup online and running in less than a day.

You might also want to look at a multi-seat setup. ie 1 reasonably spec'd computer, with several monitor+keyboard+mouse sets.

This is a fantastic idea. It would seem that the LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) would fit well with the original poster's requirements. He's already looking at using Edubuntu, which already includes LTSP, and he can use BerryTerminal on the Raspberry Pis as the LTSP clients. And going even further, he can use BerryBoot on the Raspberry Pis to support mutliple operating environments on each seat so for some classes they can use LTSP and for other classes, if they need it, they can use something like Debian or Arch Linux.

I did some research into this topic awhile ago. Here is a list depending on the age group:

3-7: GCompris (http://gcompris.net/-en-) *** Best ***, KDE Education software (http://edu.kde.org/), Tux Software Series (http://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/), TuxPaint, TuxMath, TuxType all excellent, Omnitux (overlaps with Gcompris) (http://omnitux.sourceforge.net/), SuperTuxCart (no education just game) (http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/), SuperTux(http://supertux.lethargik.org/) (entertainment only), Secret Maryo (similar to Super Mario, pure entertainment, no educational value) (http://www.secretmaryo.org/), Frozen Bubbles (pure game, no real education here)(http://www.frozen-bubble.org/), Crayon Physics Deluxe (commercial, puzzle game)(http://www.crayonphysics.com/)

6-14: Scratch (teaches computer programming in an amazingly intuitive way..had 11 year old figure it out with no computer background and no experience) (http://scratch.mit.edu/), Alice (teaches 3d art), (http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=downloads/download_alice), World Of Goo (commercial, puzzle solving)(http://www.2dboy.com ), Trine/Trine 2 (commercial, puzzle solving)(http://http://trine-thegame.com/site/) (good for developing puzzle solving skills..good graphics), Greenfoot (teaches Java to pre-teens similar way to Scratch) (http://www.greenfoot.org/door), Cogs (Commercial puzzle game) (http://www.cogsgame.com/), DreamChess (Stragety...its chess)(http://www.dreamchess.org/), E-Adventure (teaches people to make their own point/click adventure games) (http://e-adventure.e-ucm.es/), Gbrainy (Math/logic games) (https://live.gnome.org/gbrainy), Inkscape (Vector Graphics..works well with Scratch/Alice as teaching tool and book)(http://www.inkscape.org), And Yet It Moves (Commercial puzzle/alternative physics) (http://www.andyetitmoves.net/), Machinarium (Commercial, flash adventure game..great for kids) http://machinarium.net/demo/, Minecraft (semi-commercial, install on Linux may not be straightforward) (https://minecraft.net/), Botanicula (Commercial, Flash adventure Game)(http://botanicula.net/)

Most of the non-commercial games listed above are readily available hrough the software game channels of most Linux Distros including Ubuntu, Mint (I've confirmed all on Mint), Fedora and Debian. I included links in case for some reason the user friendly Software Install Dialogs in Ubuntu/Mint or default Synpatic Package manager channel configuration doesn't do the trick. The commercial ones come in various installers, most user friendly but a few you may need to make a menu launcher manually.

Children specific OS Distros: I've never tried these but it may simplify your OS installations with pre-installed game/activities: http://www.doudoulinux.org/web/english/index.html ***(this looks VERY good for kindergarden first timers on a computer)*** http://www.qimo4kids.com/what-is-qimo/ http://www.edubuntu.org/ http://www.foresightlinux.org/release/foresight-kids-edition-1-0-release-notes/

Recommend all purposes Distro for early starters (6-and up): http://www.linuxmint.org/ (Not education specific but software installation menus make it easy to find/try educational and non-educational games...ubuntu does to but Mint makes it easier for non-techies...have 9-12 year old using it with no training...no problem)

other list of games for Linux are here: http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20080510052539217/Games.html http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20080522164112313/Games-Part2.html

While educ

That's a very good question. One that they don't seem to be willing to answer on their website.

Really?

I'd suggest Edubuntu

https://edubuntu.org/about

I never used it myself although there's a 'try it now' which lets you run it over the internet and get a look at it.

You might have her try out Edubuntu. It is pretty different than just another OS, but I think it does a good job of showing how Linux can fit a specific niche in a really interesting way.

They also have a "Weblive" version where you can play with it for 2 hours online before even downloading. That's here

There are how-tos for just about every flavor of MBP out there - I used this as a reference during my install:
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MacBookPro4-1/Maverick

Edubuntu is a great for kids :)

I may be the token Windows guy around here but as to what apps? I'd just load Edubuntu and call it a day. I believe in the right tool for the job and Edubuntu not only has plenty of learning apps for ALL ages, it also has built in "net nanny" style filtering he can turn on if he is worried about teh titties. Although frankly it is a waste of time, as we old guys didn't have the Internet and still found teh titties just fine, thank you VERY much.

I never understood the "fear of teh boobies" we seem to have in this country. It reminds me of that old saying Joe Bob Briggs had "You can't show a titty unless it has a knife in it. This is America dammit!"

http://edubuntu.org/

But no news on Ubuntu Studio yet. Last time (April 29th, 2010), it was released on the same day.

Edubuntu is released today.

But it still doesn't hurt to install you're favorite flavor of Edubuntu so you don't have to worry about keeping them breaking anything important. Sure they're old enough to use the adult version under close supervision, but with this they have more options to explore without risking damage.

If educating children without teachers or other instructional figures there to guide them were easy (or even possible), we'd already be doing it. That said, there is a ton of educational software available in distributions like Edubuntu that can go a long way toward that goal.

B.S.

I've been expecting something like that from the beginning. MS is quite strong in Russia, has numerous R&D centers, etc.

Maybe, just maybe... Linux is an awful desktop environment to work in and the community that surrounds it doesn't want to accept any responsibility or settle on standards.

You apparently have no clue what you are talking about. The Russian Linux/BSD community would strongly disagree. And they are setting standards perfectly fine as Arch Linux can be easily called national Russian distro. And it it quite close to the top on list of best desktop Linux distros. (Many Russians ISPs were BSD/Linux based from day one - amount of *NIX expertise in Russia is not to be underestimated.)

Especially considering that we are talking about educational sector, all the "Linux is hard" excuses are inapplicable, as thanks to LTSP it is much much more manageable and easier (compared to Windows) to use, monitor and deploy in environments such as school is. And there are literally piles of the educational software for Linux.

Though as I said above, it was obvious that MS would do something about it. It was more question of price, as highly corrupt Russian politicians probably weren't satisfied with initial size of bribes offered by MS. Or probably they were not pro-Putin enough but now amended their ways.

Somebody needs to explain some things to these folks. It's not that hard: you install LTSP on a server, all the clients boot to the network. Install all the software you want on the server. If instead of (or in addition to) thin client/shared desktop you want an image on the desktop you configure the PXE server to dish an installer image.

Ok, stop for a second and re-read what you wrote, but this time pretend you're not someone who is knowledgeable about computers.

Yeah, you're right. Some translation is needed:

1. Put this CD in the server. Click here, enter your password, then tick this box. You're done.
2. Put this other CD in all the other computers. They'll just configure themselves.

You have installed LTSP recently, haven't you?

1. Will Flash media, WITH SOUND, work out of the box?

Been awhile since I've installed. However, I don't remember having to do more than install Flash (sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree). Sound worked, and non-Firefox browsers work also.

2. What about VPN?

This post will be submitted via a VPN. In fact, currently all traffic, including DNS, is routed through that VPN.

3. What about wireless?

Yes, and out of the box. That's more than I can say for XP.

4. Any specialty software?

Some yes, some no. However, at what point would Linux become ready? There is specialty software which does not work on the Mac, and no one claims that's not ready for the desktop. There's even specialty software which does not work on Windows.

5. Printing?

Point-and-click, out of the box, no need to install drivers or anything. Try to add a network printer, it'll even scan the local subnet for anything listening on port 631.

I don't print often -- I don't need paper often. But I often remember asking people, "Can I borrow your printer?" and being able to print something maybe 30 seconds after plugging it into a USB port. I can't ever remember this not being the case -- I honestly can't remember printing ever being a problem.

6. Educational software?

There are whole distros designed specifically for education.

7. Stuff to keep the kids away from nasty sites?

Anything on the local machine is doomed to failure. Kids know more about this stuff than you do. Hey, maybe they'll try Linux themselves, on a Knoppix CD, where your "stuff to keep them away from nasty sites" won't work.

However, filtering at the ISP level is quite common, as an option. Sure, in the long run, it'll be broken also, but it's really a bit more effective, and works equally well with all OSes.

8. Home automation?

Right here.

It's almost as easy as installing a distribution these days. The Edubuntu project did most of the hard work, so I'd recommend starting there.

Also see K12Linux, which is LTSP integrated with Fedora 10. Haven't tried it, but it's supposed to work well.

Both come with "kiddie" graphics and themes installed by default, but those are easy to change. The software underneath is still standard Linux desktop fare.

7 official versions of Ubuntu alone. You were saying..?

Well, lets see:

Ubuntu Server: the six flavors of Windows 7 in TFA don't include server editions: there will presumably be all the permutations of "Windows Home|[Small] Business|Enterprise [Premium] Server 201N" (or something) as well..

Ubuntu MID: The Ubuntu answer to Windows Mobile, which likewise is not counted among the Windows 7 flavours.

Netbook Remix: is a set of packages - unless you are an OEM working with Cannonical to bundle a custom Ubuntu release with a netbook. In the latter case, it says here that Microsoft will also have an OEM-only netbook version, which was not counted in TFA.

Xubuntu,Kubuntu: Use completely different desktop environments - which really has no equivalent in the Windows world ("Windows Home Basic" doesn't count - its the same UI with the fancy effects turned off).

Edbuntu is now just Ubuntu + a set of extra packages.

There's no lock-in: whatever flavour of Ubuntu you have, any workable permutation of all the features from all the other versions is but an apt-get away. Want to use Ubuntu Desktop as a server? Fine. Want to choose between Gnome, KDE, XFCE and Netbook Remix each time you log in? Install away.

Go to the Cannonical site and you'll have no doubt that what they are promoting is a simple choice between Ubuntu Desktop or Ubuntu Server. The others are alternatives produced in response to specific needs. What MS is doing is more like having 6 versions of their basic Desktop OS, which can't easily be converted or combined, aimed at artificial marketing-defined target groups.

This already works since Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy) released over a year ago: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/AptUrl - just write a link that goes "apt:fortunes;frozen-bubble" instead of http://whatever/ and when an Ubuntu user clicks on this, it runs the equivalent of "apt-get install fortunes frozen-bubble". You can install any number of apps launched with a single click, and it's safe because they come from the repositories defined on the user's machine in /etc/apt/sources.list.

You've heard of Edubuntu, right?

See these:
Venezuela's National Strike
Venezuela Kubuntu -- must read
The Venezuelan Educational System
Venezuela Embraces Linux and Open Source Software, but Faces Challenges
Venezuela - Stepping Forward With Debian
Enterprise Unix Roundup: Oracle's Open World
Trollparty in Caracas during World Social Forum
Free software liberates Venezuela
Free Software: Technological Democratization?
No More Microsoft blood in the veins of the Venezuela
Free Software Developers program continues successfully
Open standard Venezuelan law definition

I'd find a machine and see what you think of Edubuntu ("Linux for Young Human Beings").

http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu

My daughter is 3-1/2 and loves the stuff on Linux. She was typing her name on TuxPaint before she turned three but we had to click on the icons for her to set it to text or other modes since the mouse was too big and unwieldy.

So I bought her a laptop mouse which is perfect for her small hand. Big mistake. She will now sneak into the computer and start up "Paint Penguins" (TuxPaint), draw something, print it and come show us.

If she's bored with that she plays "Running Penguins" (SuperTux) or "Bubble Penguins" (Frozen Bubbles) or steals my Blackberry to show where Nana lives on Google Maps.

If she finds my bank-account numbers I'm in trouble. But seriously, Linux has plenty of edutainment software available and Edubuntu packages it in one place. It it also designed for classroom (and therefore, I suppose, library) use with features like centralized-management (LTSP) and such.

My daughter is 11. I installed Edubuntu on the "pony" she got for Christmas, her first computer. She loves it, Edubuntu has plenty edutainment software for her to play with. I highly recommend Edubuntu for children and educators.

There are entire distributions for kids and schools. One of them is Edubuntu; there are many others.

Typing tutors have been available on Linux since before Windows or Macintosh even existed.

The biggest problem systems like Linux have is prejudice and ignorance from people like you.

Then there's this

http://k12ltsp.org/ that has been around and available for years? It's based on Fedora but everything is there for a standard office environment.

This looks pretty much identical to what Edubuntu does for you. I run Edubuntu at home for the simple reason that I like sitting down in front of $RANDOM_AVAILABLE_COMPUTER and being right at home.

db

Holy crap, how many versions of Ubuntu are there now? So far, I'm counting:

• Kubuntu
• Xubuntu
• Edubuntu
• Christian Edition
• Satanic Edition
• Muslim Edition

When is it going to be enough already?!!

Throw a real OS on there -- Edubuntu would do nicely -- and this machine would be excellent for a student. If you absolutely need MS Office, Office2K run under WINE would be a winner. Without the overhead of Vista OO.org would run fine on this machine.

My concern would be that the capacitors might blow in a couple of years. Otherwise, this would be fine.

Yesterdays news, with Linux, you can run it on any kind of CPU you want to, CPU agnostic, don't you know ;). I wonder how many more plugs for edubuntu http://www.edubuntu.org/ can be snuck into this Novell story ;).

According to the US Department of Education, total money spent on K-12 schooling annually in the USA has risen from US$248.9 billion in 1990 to US$536 billion in 2005. How can an enormous industry (which is what K-12 schooling is) with a huge influential union be in dire straits when often is the main source of jobs in rural areas?

As pointed out in this article (based on a recent bipartisan study):
    "To fix US schools, panel says, start over"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1215/p01s01-ussc.htm l
for all the money (and technology) increased over that time per student, test scores (for what they are worth) have remained flat.

The problem with most K-12 schooling is not money (or technology); it is that K-12 schooling is actually very good at doing what it was designed to do (see for example John Taylor Gatto's writings).
      "The 7-Lesson Schoolteacher"
      http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt
Unfortunately what compulsory schooling was designed to do one hundred years or more ago (make people into compliant assembly line workers) is not really what an information age society needs anymore.

That's why efforts like by the Shuttleworth Foundation
    http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/
to make some of the sort of software you are asking about for schools is misguided IMHO. You can't fix a bad process producing undesireable outcomes by automating it or reducing its cost. You need to change it entirely.

Here is one of many groups devoted to rethinking education:
    "The Alternative Education Resource Organization"
    http://www.educationrevolution.org/
And a related article by the leader of that organization:
    "Sustainable Education "
    http://www.greenmoneyjournal.com/article.mpl?newsl etterid=21&articleid=195
He writes: "Nevertheless, there is an education revolution going on, and it is long overdue. It is moving in the diametrically opposite direction of the "testing" push. The latter comes from the bureaucrats from within that dying system, who do know there is something wrong. But since they can't think "out of the box," the only remedy they can come up with is longer hours, more homework, and "teaching to the test," in other words, more of the same. The education revolution is coming from people who have created alternative schools and programs, thousands of them, and from others who have checked "none of the above" and have decided to home educate."

Once you make the leap to a new process for education (primarily learner self-direction) *then* we can talk about what software makes sense to support the learner (like educational simulations, design tools, plain old access to the web, edubuntu,
    http://www.edubuntu.org/
and so on).

http://edubuntu.org/

Are you sure about that? AFAIK, what Edubuntu provides is LTSP, which allows you to run one machine with a bunch of thin clients attached to it, but each of the thin clients requires another PC. That's not the same as attaching multiple monitors and keyboards directly to one computer.

Edubuntu will do this out of the box for you. It's designed specifically for this sort of situation.

Edubuntu, anyone?

A better comparison than OLPC might be with Edubuntu since we're talking about providing software to run computer labs. And Microsoft does have something to worry about here -- Edubuntu is steadily improving alongside Ubuntu, and as a simple and easy way to set up an educational computer lab it is almost unparalleled. Not only does it have an easy to set up terminal server system, but it comes with a large array of educational applications out of the box. That makes it a very attractive option, as you get a complete lab setup and educational application suite shipped to you for free. Between this and OLPC I suspect MS is starting to worry about its position in developing countries where children are going to increasingly grow up largely using Linux in one form or another.

It already exists: http://www.edubuntu.org/ ;)

I'm converting though... my daughter's PC will stay windows for a while until I can get educational...software working

Have you tried Edubuntu http://www.edubuntu.org/ ? I've not used it myself, but by all accounts it's quite good for that sort of stuff.

These machines (from Windows 95 era) are far too weak to run decent desktop Linux. In fact they will run windowing system and graphical mode fine, but when it comes down to applications it will be *VERY* painly to run Firefox or OpenOffice.org on them.

Instead you can turn the old machines into thin clients. So they will serve only as an display and input to applications that will be run on more powerfull server. You need to set up a fairly capable server (the ammount of RAM matters) - dual P3 with 1GB RAM and decent big disks will do for a handful of clients. The clients can boot of minidistribution installed on them locally, from live CD or via network (netboot). Network option will be probably best but not all systems (meaning PCs) will support it.

This way all the old machines will do is connect to that server and display appliations run on the server. When one such thin client breaks (the old machines *WILL* break often) you just replace it with another one and it is basically it. Also management of such system is much simpler than managing network of Windows 95 - all apps and all user data is on the server, so you have only one place to look after, only one place to manage software, only one place to backup etc.

There are various Linux distributions build for education. F.e. I would take Edubuntu for a spin (for starters):
http://www.edubuntu.org/
http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots (these speak for themselves)

Thera are also few ways for managing terminal server/client network, one most well known solution is the Linux Terminal Server Project - have a look at their documentation, it is fairly complete:
http://www.ltsp.org/
http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/index.php

Also if you are looking for help seek your local Linux community. Linux servers are extremely easy to manage remotely so you can probably find some kind admins/gurus that will want to help you pro bono.

Good Luck. :)

These machines (from Windows 95 era) are far too weak to run decent desktop Linux. In fact they will run windowing system and graphical mode fine, but when it comes down to applications it will be *VERY* painly to run Firefox or OpenOffice.org on them.

Instead you can turn the old machines into thin clients. So they will serve only as an display and input to applications that will be run on more powerfull server. You need to set up a fairly capable server (the ammount of RAM matters) - dual P3 with 1GB RAM and decent big disks will do for a handful of clients. The clients can boot of minidistribution installed on them locally, from live CD or via network (netboot). Network option will be probably best but not all systems (meaning PCs) will support it.

This way all the old machines will do is connect to that server and display appliations run on the server. When one such thin client breaks (the old machines *WILL* break often) you just replace it with another one and it is basically it. Also management of such system is much simpler than managing network of Windows 95 - all apps and all user data is on the server, so you have only one place to look after, only one place to manage software, only one place to backup etc.

There are various Linux distributions build for education. F.e. I would take Edubuntu for a spin (for starters):
http://www.edubuntu.org/
http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots (these speak for themselves)

Thera are also few ways for managing terminal server/client network, one most well known solution is the Linux Terminal Server Project - have a look at their documentation, it is fairly complete:
http://www.ltsp.org/
http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/index.php

Also if you are looking for help seek your local Linux community. Linux servers are extremely easy to manage remotely so you can probably find some kind admins/gurus that will want to help you pro bono.

Good Luck. :)

I can not help but think that when Vista crashes on to the scene that Grandma, and Uncle will find free products like Edubuntu a little bit more useful than having to buy a OS, AND a new box.

"Slowly, one by one, the penguins steal my sanity" - Unknown

My suggestion is to d/l edubuntu Live CD (x86, PPC, AMD64 versions available). I did this just this weekend and began showing my 6 year old around the system. There are a number of excellent applications for education (most above the level of the average elementary student, no doubt) and educational games. One is the LOGO programming language/environment, which is designed to teach programming to children. Also, in the GCompris educational packages is a "boat race" game that is a programming teaching aid (forward x, left degrees). Recommended.

We actually just finished running a kids' summer program at the YMCA Gambia, and we used edubuntu to teach the kids, among other things, an introduction to programming class, using kturtle. kturtle is a LOGO interpreter, with a very good help manual, and it is so graphical (runs in KDE) so the kids get immediate feedback. Plus it can run off CD along with the rest of edubuntu, if you don't want to install anything.

The kids themselves - we're talking between 5 and 18 here - had a lot of fun and at the end of the program we burnt edubuntu Live CDs for them to take home and continue using on their home PCs.

I just can't help but think that if Microsoft had a copy of Edubuntu, everyone would be happy, and going on their merry way. ;oP

argh.... sorry for messing up :/

My 6 year old just celebrated his year anniversary of running Edubuntu

www.edubuntu.org/news.html - Edubuntu has been launched 4.5 months ago :)

Anyways, Edubuntu seems well suited for school use. A funny (I guess) story. Couple of months ago I said "enough" after my parents' 20th virus-related emergency, so I burnt Ubuntu CD and installed it on the their computer next time I visited them... just to find out that I burnt the wrong image (I had Edubuntu iso in the same dir) and didn't notice it during installation and first booting (Ubuntu/Edubuntu have that dark brown logo on a black background when you boot them... and my parents have a monitor with crappy contrast).

Also, it might be a good idea to contact people from tuXlab - what they do is they deploy OSS (probably (Edubuntu, because it's Shuttleworh Foundation) in Sourth African schools. I bet they could give tons of useful advices.