Slashdot Mirror
Computer For a Child?
jameswing writes "I am thinking of buying a UMPC, such as an Eee PC or a Wind for my son, and wanted to get input from Slashdot. He is almost 2 and really curious about our computers, and anything electronic. I want to foster this in him, without having him on my desktop or laptop. I also don't really like the idea of getting one of those cheap 'Learning Laptops' that have a tiny screen and are really limited.
Does anybody have one that they use with their children? How sturdy is it? Will it stand up to a 2-year-old? If not, what are good alternatives?
What are your thoughts? Suggestions?"
Your son is not a prodigy. At "nearly 2" he's about ready for playing "What sound does this animal make?" games. With you though, not with some electronic babysitter.
This question is nonsensical. Come back in 3 years, and we can talk.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
You're joking, right? It sounds like this is more for you than for your son. Look, we all want our children to be interested in what we're interested in, but don't you think that this is a little overkill and a little pushy? All children are interested by lights and sounds, etc. but that doesn't mean that he is ready for his own real computer. Buy him one of those toy ones that make sounds and have big flashing lights, he'll like it better and when he breaks it, you'll only be out twenty bucks.
My suggestion is to just let him be a kid for a little while. You really don't want him getting that pasty complexion this early in life...
I gave my 1½ YO daughter an old IBM Thinkpad from the late 90's. It's not useful for any real application, but it does run - and she can do whatever she wants with it, it's hers.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
I'm a first day Give One Get One (G1G1) buyer of the OLPC, and although it certainly doesn't match the specs or convenience of the newer UMPCs, it is amazingly good at what it is designed for - an easy to use and super durable computer for children. Two is pretty young, they need to know not to smash the screen, but aside from that the OLPC has an excellent interface. There really isnt any competition. They just restarted the OLPC G1G1 on Amazon, but you can probably find one at a decent price on eBay - dont be in a rush and you'll get a good deal. You'll find it fun to play with too!
Why not just spend $300 on an old Thinkpad? They were built pretty tough, and are probably too heavy for a small kid to carry around so he won't be able to drop it.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I ordered Elonex ONEt+ http://www.elonexone.co.uk/ for my neice.. She will be 3years old in March.
It is currently available only for pre-booking and will be delivered by Christmas.
Give him one of your old computers, an internet connection, and a Gentoo boot disk. Let him figure it out from there.
Let's get realistic here. The kid doesn't read or even understand what the different keys on the keyboard are at this age. A conventional computer won't teach him that. Maybe you should set the bar within his reach for the next couple years. A toy computer that presents him with challenges that are appropriate for his cognitive level will be far more educational.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I would not want him staring at a computer screen. Show him printed text and he may read. I was before that age.
Interacting with a laptop is not the basis you want his brain to grow around.
However, there are infant games for computers. I had one for a mac years ago that drew things in red, black and white as small children are most attracted to red.
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Two-year-olds are not old enough to understand how to treat things gently. I don't think it's possible to make a laptop that can stand up to a two-year-old unless you encased the whole thing (including the keyboard) in about a two-inch thick layer of plastic. Two-year-olds throw terrible tantrums. They're known for it. They'll often smash things up when they're angry. When my step daughter was two and upset, she ripped every page out of Blueberries For Sal. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. Whether or not he's curious about computers, age two is too soon. Wait, at least, until he gets to an age where he doesn't throw tantrums (which will probably be a little before age three if you don't make a practice of giving in when he throws tantrums and will probably be about age fifteen otherwise).
At three, he'd at least be less likely to break it quickly. Personally, I'd probably wait until age four or so since he's more likely to have the needed cognitive skills to do things like recognize symbols at that age. But regardless of whether you wait until age three or age four, "almost two" is significantly too early for a computer.
It's a desktop and I call it Bobby. No diapers and all that crap, only pure parenting joy!
A two year old is going to have a hard time manipulating the keyboard and touch pad of any netbook. Consider one of the Fisher Price things you hook to a regular TV. If you are insisting on a real computer, the XO-1 from OLPC is available on Amazon for $400 ($200 tax break for the G1G1 program). Sugar bothers most adults but my five year old (now six) took to it well, and it has lots of interesting software. For the less adventuresome, the Classmate from Intel (distributed by CTL) is also available on Amazon. It uses a modified Edubuntu build so has a lot of educational applications. Unless your kid is some kind of bio mechanical freak, that can handle mice, keyboards and touch pads at two, I'd suggest buying something designed for that age and holding off on the netbook for a couple of years.
You need to "foster" Computer & Gaming interests in kids? Ever read the news? You need to force them to stop playing video games and DO HOMEWORK or go outside! You don't need to "teach" them to look at shiny blinking lights..... Why does this person as a parent frighten me?
I have a nephew around the same age (slightly over two). He loves playing with my Nintendo DS and Mario 64 on the Wii (which, of course, he doesn't quite know how to control yet, but the freedom to just run around is fun even to him).
What would be a good portable I could get him that would be more his age? I don't think he's a prodigy or anything, I just want to get him something fun.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
A box of crayons and a cardboard box big enough to sit in. Turn it on its side for cave-y goodness (2 is a bit too young for spaceship goodness).
--
Lost you job? Keep one eye open on craigslist.com http://www.bigattichouse.com/oneeyeopen.html
meh
My daughter who is almost 3 has been really interested in electronics as well. I picked up an old used laptop (I think it's a Pentium III 800 or something) that someone was giving away. I loaded it up with Debian and installed GCompris. She absolutely loves it - and GCompris is great. Problem is (like most kids her age) she picks it up to move it and drops it, tries to forcefully "integrate" her other toys with it, occasionally spills something on the keyboard... you know - normal 2 year old stuff.
Unless you've got the cash to not care about your kid wrecking and mucking the thing up in 6 months of use - I say load linux on an old used beater. The kid doesn't know the difference.
Just disrupt the deflector shield with a tachyon burst.
I learned to read with that age, which was considered a prodigy in my city (and a freak, BTW, in equal proportions).
I really dug into encyclopedias, and was very interested in science. Until I stole a book from a dad's friend.
It was COBOL. I was 4. Now I'm a sad CS teacher finishing my ph.D. in high-performance computing. And I have 12 euros in my bank account right now.
Let him live. And when time comes, guide him to a law school.
I think it's simply amazing when I see a 3 yr old that can hop up to a computer and knows how to use it. Not to get on excel or anything, but knows how to turn it on or shut it down, can click on games and use a mouse.
Don't expect the computer to be a major part of their life. Even just getting to play on the computer for 30 minutes a day would be great. You want your kid to be one of the ones at school that when the entire class is placed in a lab full of computers, that he sits down and is comfortable using it, not trying to press keys gingerly with one finger and struggling to figure out the mouse, not looking down at the keyboard and peck one key, look up at the screen, look down and peck one more key etc. You can really tell when a kid is accustomed to a computer.
You don't need a super computer for this. Heck, the k-2 I worked at last year had ancient iMacs running OS 9 and Harcourt learning games software on them, and that was an incredible experience for them. (teaching phonics mainly, all audio and video, no reading required) Those machines were in the kids' rooms, and there was a lab of 25 newer machines across the hall with Type To Learn Jr on them. 1st graders learning to type is a wonderful thing. Anything that gets them involved is more than enough.
There are web sites you can go to that host dozens of learning games for K-2 level kids, so you don't even need to buy software that they would outgrow in 2 months. (unlike their clothes!)
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Buy the Magellan laptop (Magalhaes) that is based on the Intel Classmate framework. This computer is being supplied to every child in Portugal from the ages of 6-10. It's a very robust laptop that keeps working after more than 1 meter (3 feet) falls.
However, you should analyze if 2 years-old isn't a bit too soon to have a laptop.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Two is too young for real mouse and keyboard control, although they might be enthralled by pictures on the screen. I'd argue that spending the money on some books and other play equipment (cheap and good: some big plastic "tweezers" and some little plastic objects to pick up - develops the quite specialised muscles and coordination they'll need to hold a pen for writing later on really well) would be a better course of action though.
Buying them their own laptop's a dumb idea if you expect them to take care of it. It'll get pulled off the table or have the lid shut with an object on the keyboard, and it'll die. Also, if you're giving them access to the charger, they might pull the AC cable out and stick it in their mouth, which wouldn't do them any good. Or they might accidentally short the battery and cause a fire. Or tip their juice over it. Or (as just happened to my other half's brand new Palm Centro) decide they like it so much they're going to dip it in the bath to clean it. I could go on. They're just not toddler-proof/friendly/suitable.
I've a two year old and a five year old. I wouldn't buy either a "real" laptop although my five year old likes sitting on my lap and playing simple kids web games sometimes, and can use a mouse and a keyboard. She'd rather draw with a pen, though, and learning to read and write is something best done on paper. My two year old is currently literally jumping up and down with sheer joy at the marble run we've just bought her.
My advice? If you want a netbook for yourself, buy one. If you want a toy for your kids, buy something else.
Having said all this, an iPhone is great for distracting small children by showing them pics of the family!
Then when he gets the hang of that, take off the training wheels and let him use vi.
get an eepc and install glubble on firefox (not tried that yet mind you). It is as full a powered pc as you want it to be, and comes out of the box with a bunch of easy to use and educational games - suitable for challenging all ages!! Bets of all - it is about as child proof as a computer gets (without opting for the barbie model) and is cheap. Also, if you feel the need, it is all you need to take on a trip for everyone's use.
I was planning to buy my daughter (8) one, but I cannot find any linux models in Singapore sadly - forget the windows model! - i suppose that comes with minesweeper & solitaire at least! My eepc has Tuxmath - yeehar!
he says he's going to 'check his email' and sits down at the computer. i dont know where he got that from. not me, cause i never say something like 'ima check my email'
then he proceeds to remove keys from the keyboard. he's gotten quite good at this, even employing other objects as a lever to pop the keys off. i then find them scattered about the house, in his mouth, outside, in the toilet, in the refrigerator...
if you have a child of this age, the only computers that are going to stand up to them are made by fisher price etc.
i don't think it would be worth it until about 5 at the earliest
I've got a working Commodore 64 system that I'm willing to sell you for cheap (complete with oodles of software). That taught me everything I needed to know about computers, and in a way that captivated me. Perhaps that'd be considered an ultra-archaic learning tool in this day and age, but then again maybe it's the perfect level of entry because it's a system that's simple enough to be (mostly) understood as a whole while being powerful enough (BASIC 2.0 gripes aside) to give one a feeling of accomplishment and control.
Get a fujitsu lifebook. Apparently, there are free upgrades for life, and it will be small enough that (s)he can type on it with his/her pudgy fingers.
Alternately, I have an eee/1000ha, and it is fairly sturdy, but it wouldn't hold up to a little kid sitting on it. Maybe an older toughbook? Or even just something that is older than your kid...
Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
A real computer for him at age 2?
By age 5, he'll be demanding his own personal server room, fully equipped.
The best thing to do is read to him every night. By doing so, he will learn that reading is a rewarding activity. When he gets older, reading will not be a struggle, and from there he can do whatever he likes.
And he will want to use Daddy's laptop, even if he has his own.
i have a 5 year old boy who has not had much experience with computers, how ever we do play games on the computer together,there many kids websites that are good for him, just create a user account that he can play games and can only get to certain websites, if he does break the keyboard they're cheap, much cheaper than a umpc.
Give the 2 year old a fish & you have fed him for today.
Teach him how to fish & you have fed him for life.
Why buy him a computer. Take him to Frys or something.
Let him pick out the parts & make his own computer.
Once he is done, point him to one of the Linux sources - he
can build his binaries & install it.
I think you might want to start with Potty-Training first.
An Asus EeePC or an MSI Wind are not to be considered UMPC. The concepts are different. UMPC are overgrown palm devices (or shrunken tablets, depending how you see it), with a touchscreen, and an emphasis on watching/listening media. Hence the name. They are usually quite expensive, do not have a normal keyboard or lack one completely - you are supposed to use the touchscreen for that, and since you are not expected to type a lot, that should be ok.
The category you are talking about should be called netbooks. They are notebooks which are smaller, cheaper, and slower than a typical notebook. Most of all, they are very portable without the price premium associated with an ultraportable notebook. The points here are price, form-factor, and intended purpose. Your typical netbook has a (smallish) notebook keyboard, perhaps not so much storage, but it will let you do - and expects you to - all the things you do with a normal notebook, providing you can put up with the small screen and keyboard.
, Ok, I will stop being a dick now and answer your question. Since so many people told you not to get any kind of computer, I won't do the same, but... anyways, consider an OLPC machine. It is supposed to be more sturdy, and the Sugar interface is (IMHO) a great way to teach children what computers are all about without being tied to the dominant GUI/OS.
That said, no matter how gifted your child is, he is still a 2 year old and so he is bound to shred the computer to little pieces. And eat them. So either get the cheapest one, or get a very sturdy one.
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
And of course, get a tiny notebook type mouse for his little hand.
Ibid.
2 year old child? Computer? What?
...
Furthering your kids natural curiousity should start with the regular things like nature and people. Why don't you find some friends for him to play with or have him memorize each species of every zoo in your range of travel? Seriously, there are TONS of other things you should get your kid involved in before plugging him into the naval cord of all evil in the world, what we like to call the internet. You know what it's for
If you really have to go through all that just to say "look he's 2 1/2 and compiles his own kernel" buy an old ruggedized laptop. They'll be affordable, powerful enough for the needs of every gaming enthusiast 2 year old. And they're less likely to end in a tragedy when you son decides he wants to show his good friend "sippy cup" what awesome gibberish he just posted on his myspace page. Jeez.
Look, the job market out there is tough. You want your kid to get ahead, right? Assembly programming is clearly the way to go. That way when you introduce C at 4, C++ at 6, they'll be ready for the workplace while his would-be classmates are failing sandbox.
"forget the windows model! - i suppose that comes with minesweeper & solitaire at least! "
Yeah. I have an EEE with windows. and SQL server 2005, visual studio 2005, and world of warcraft. plus firefox, thunderbird, etc. all work just fine.
He'll probably enjoy the box. It'll make a nice fort or maybe a car.
Talk a lot, play and bond, and let it learn directly from you. Computer is not a substitute for parenting.
That said, once your child is ready and interested get HP 50G programmable graphing calculator and let it master it! (RPN and simple but powerful programming constructs are available).
The device is still small and capable, but there is nothing like the satisfaction of knowing how it truly works.
Computers of today are too abstract and too separated from the metal, and you can't really feel you intimately know it any more (you know that feeling we had back in our childhood when we knew our Commodore 64's ROM addresses and functions they do. You don't get that any more).
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
...just teach him to bully the other kid in his class to do it for him, and pay him with a biscuit from his lunchbox. When he grows up, he'll be ready for outsourcing the people he works with.
My children (I'm a proud Dad of 4 children) started using Macs at 3.
After trying to install an old Pc with Windows 95, and spend most of my time repairing it after they clicked twice or turned it off in the "wrong" way, I switched them to Mac.
I was given old Macs (Mac OS 8), all in one, with colour screen included and just left them near their playground. They started playing with th mouse, trying to hit the keyboard and finally got really surprised when it turned on !
Next, I installed very easy software for children (sorry, french : lapin malin maternelle 1, nounours...) which just show how to wipe the screen with the mouse or randomly hit the keyboard to produce sounds or figures.
Slowly, when they grew up, I explained how to clic and launch small games.
The mac can be turned off / on without any concern, and children can mess up the icons, everything still work !
A Thinkpad *and* an M5? Man, when *I* was a kid...
How about a box of crayons. Candyland. A tricycle. A soccer ball.
If you must, a restricted user acct on your desktop, with a kid-applicable set of games.
I can't imagine any 'real' laptop being sturdy enough for a 2 year old. He *will* drop it one day. Or simply trip over the cord, pulling t off the desk.
Get him a book on electronics and a schematic for an 8086 processor and let him work out the rest from there.
He's 2 FFS! Give him a ball!
I bought my two year old daughter a basic keyboard with the keys that click quite loudly. She loves playing with it and will spend hours pounding keys.
~$40 for a keyboard
~$400 for an eee PC (or XO, or similar).
Guess which I would rather have milk spilt into or cookie crumbs fall into. It's not likely I will ever use the keyboard on a computer.
or the poor kid will be brain damaged for life if you subject the poor thing to Windows.
My son is 3 and loves Magic Desktop, but he only learned to use the mouse and keyboard properly aged about 3 1/2. I don't think he'll appreciate his own computer - just let him use yours - the worst he can do is damage some of the peripherals, but he can just as easily do that if he's got his own as well.
Umm you do realize the kid's 2 right? Even if the kid is a prodigy, it probably isn't a good idea to give him a real laptop as most are not designed for that sort of abuse. Plus do you really want your kid to be a computer junkie at that age already!? I mean I'd prefer to give my kids electronic toys (FRS Radio for example), encourage them to play and explore with different things. By only giving them a computer you're effectively limiting their choices.
I just bought an EEE for my Mom for Christmas, and let me tell you it isn't exactly fragile, but it definitely wasn't made with 2 year olds in mind.
If you really want to get him something, look for an older, very inexpensive computer, and look into something like edubuntu. I played with that a while back thinking I'd give an old machine to my son when he was 4-5, but just waited another year and gave him my old G4. At that point he was old enough to click around and find the basic web sites that I allowed him access to via the parental controls.
I would also say look for an older CRT monitor, and put it on the floor or a low shelf. He is just going to stick a pen or some toy into an LCD, and no matter what type of monitor you have he will probably topple it over at some point.
I don't know if this is your only child, but you have a couple of years still until you will have any idea if he will be careful enough with a computer for it to be worthwhile to give him one. So unless you have a spare machine laying around with no purpose, I'd wait and get him another toy type item instead.
As an analogy, I have had PDA's for quite some time. And when my son was 2, he really wanted to play with my Palm m515, which of course was a really bad idea. I was able to contact someone in Palm who agreed to send me a display model m130 (which had a epoxied together body with a cardboard insert for the screen, i.e. no actual electronics). He LOVED that thing. I think he still has it around somewhere. Had he got a real one (which would have been insane of me) he would have broken it in a week or so.
Shawn's Tech Articles
Deal!
As someone else mentioned, how about a Commodore 64, Apple II or Atari 400/800 with a floppy drive?
You can get these machines very cheap on Ebay or free if you look around. They're extremely durable and easy to fix. Best of all, they're easy to understand. You insert a disc, apply power and the desired software runs. No complicated OS gets in the way. Gobs of quality edutainment software available.
I've got a stack of Apple //e's ready for my kids when they're older.
I have a 2-year old daughter, and I've been asking myself the same question. Given how intersted she is in my and my wife's laptops, might there be a child-resistant and inexpensive computer for her?
I read through the various postings, and frankly I was surprised by some of the negativity expressed there. We read to our child every night before bedtime, we take her outdoors for running around, and we fill her day with appropriate activities. AND she still wants to play with computers. I think this is a legitimate question.
I've set up an old laptop for her to play with. No screen saver / password, stripped of most apps, just word processing so she can see her letters and sing ABC. She doesn't touch her toy laptop (the ones that cost around $20 at Wal-Mart). To be honest she only plays with her "real" laptop for about 5 minutes. Most of the times, she just wants to sit on our laps and do what we do. LOL.
A piece of paper and a crayon. Easy
Just saying.
Wtf should he have a real complete computer for? Get him something for learning or playing with colors/drawing or shapes or to make sound or whatever.
Either like finger painting on a touchscreen (but why not use finger paint?), or a non-computer such as those drawing tables we had with two knobs, etch-a-scetch? Or something like a Korg Kaoss Pad or similar if you really wanna go high-tech :D
Keyboard?
Build him a small car with electronic motor?
Check of KMX trikes?
Still, wtf shall he do with a regular computer?
They spend their time on CBeebies (the BBC children's web site) and Nick Jnr playing Flash games, so actual operating systems are basically meaningless here. What's important is that it can show a web page and run Flash, which both machines can. The iMac acts as a DVD player for kids' films too.. Supervised, they also go onto YouTube to look at clips of Mario Galaxy etc.. to help them with their games. There's plenty of educational early school-type sites out there too which help with maths and spelling.
To the naysayers in this thread who don't think a two year-old can cope - yes, they certainly can and ours does (well, he's three and one month now but you get the point). At that age they're unlikely to knock you out a quick CMS in Python, but some of the web sites for children are very well thought out and they enjoy their time there.
Cheers,
Ian
There are a lot of games and educational toys for PC, some that could be good for that age. Now, should he have a special pc for him?
If so, maybe something very resistant, maybe portable, and with touchscreen (a pc/notebook keyboard probably will be too random for him, and a mouse/touchpad could have problems too) could be good. Maybe isnt exactly a desktop computer/notebook what you are looking for, a psp or an iphone with the right content could do the trick.
There are a lot of just toys that could be fine for him, things that he can operate, make sounds, ligts, music, whatever, but something programable could be flexible enough for tuning what he likes better or evolving what he plays.
Ignore the negativity here - not likely they have kids. My 2 year old son only wants to do what the bigs (big kids) do and that includes computers. But his little fingers easily take the keys right off the laptops. And I think he will eventually break the display so I try to keep it away, or only let him use it while I am right there. There's no end to what he likes on Youtube - particularly Tractor videos. I don't think I will get him an eePC for a few years again because of the keys. But, he is quite good with my iPhone, so I might get him a new iPod Touch. It is not so easy to break, no keys, the new one have little speakers and my little one has figured out how to start his favorite music.
I let my two year old try both my desktop computer and my olpc. Neither is really suitable to be used without an adult being in the room. With the OLPC XO-1, I was worried that he might be able to break off the antennas or break the screen/keyboard connector. What actually got first broke was one of the keys got torn off, but I glued it back on. Sugar does have some good activities that he had fun with, specifically the Record activity and TamTam mini (a sound making program). With my desktop computer he liked watching the worms screensaver, and making it make beeps. If I was choosing what to do right now for a two year old, I would probably put Sugar on an old desktop computer. On the other hand, I would not bother doing so unless the kid shows serious interest in computers. If the kid is coming up to you and trying to play with your computers, this will make them happy, otherwise it is not worth the bother. For what it's worth, he had far more fun with a old dsl modem, a old caller id, a ethernet hub and a couple ethernet cables and telephone cables than he has had with the computers so far. So on the dollars per amount of fun, real computers for two year olds are not very good. Also expect stuff to be broken, and some adult will have to be in the room watching or playing along. A regular laptop or netbook would probably be broken within hours by a two year old.
I understand how you feel. Last year, my daughter was 2 years old and I took the opportunity to jump onto the OLPC G1G1 bandwagon. Regardless of all the system's shortcomings and benefits, the kid actually took to liking "being like daddy". She's now 3 years old and has now figured out how to turn the machine on, move the mouse, click on buttons,etc....
I observed that the following was true for her leapster and baby VTECH as well (yeah I know, lots of my relatives seem to think buying her gaming consoles is cool, none of them thought of getting her a PS3 or XBOX360 yet though...)
I think at this point, you won't get anything "productive" out of buying them a real laptop. They just want to be like you at this point.
Now, a year later, the kid likes to draw on the OLPC paint application. Last week, I left her unattended. She had turned the machine on, opened the paint application and drawn a big black circle on the screen. When I walked into her room, she had an orange wax crayon and was drawing on the LCD!!!!!!!
When I asked what's going on, she said she wanted to draw orange eyes on her picture of daddy..... Guess she still needs to figure out how to change the color of the paintbrush.
Are you out of your fucking mind? So what, your kid is potty trained now and you are going to start treating them like an adult? Huh? Parenting 101? A normal 2 year old is far too young to have a laptop. those choking labels for children under 3 apply to things other than just toys. furthermore, the child likely cannot even read yet. i mean what is possibly the rush to spend money so foolishly? (especially in light of recent events) t would be fine, however, to let the kid play with your computer every once in a while under supervision. i mean you are posting here, you should have probably like 5 pentium 3s laying around. through ubuntu and some paint program and maybe a couple of simple games on it and let the kid have at it. All, within supervision, of course. Geez, I really think I would hate to be your kid. its probably always whatever daddy wants to do. let your kid develop into their own persona and give them the steps and building blocks along the way to develop their abilities. you can't force something onto a kid. don't be the douchebag dad that makes his kid play football and join the boy scouts, because that is what he did as a kid. (though I must admit, I had a lot of fun as a boy scout) the kid is two. Appropriate playthings at age 2 include blocks (not legos, LARGE blocks) wooden car and train sets, dolls, things that are, you know, rated safe for children *3* and under. Take the kid outside and play in the park. Children really need engaging and giving them some mysterious electronic box that will likely hypnotize them is a dangerous thing. This also goes for TV. Introduce the kid to other kids. Give them a normal life and not one where they spend their childhood staring at some tv screen or some computer screen. If you let children follow their own path (with some guidance of course), you tend to get some pretty amazing results.
zosxavius photography
I don't like the rudeness and negativity in this thread. I'm also pretty sick of the slashdot meme that lashes out against anyone not spending every waking moment engaging their kid in face-to-face learning endeavors. And you people saying 2 year-olds only care about flashing lights and animal noises either do not have a 2 year old or your 2 year old is just developmentally mediocre.
First of all kids that age have eleventy one toys that blink and flash. They leave them sit and gravitate to the computer because that's what's daddy is doing. Fostering that curiosity is a good thing. My 2 & 1/2 year old was using a touchpad on a dell playing games at pbskids.org, using the arrow keys, and the space bar, and doing a damn fine job of it. A year later... he powers it on, launches the browser, and clicks "his buttons" to get to his games and stories.
Encourage your kids. Don't place limits where there don't need to be any. Nobody asked how to get a computer to babysit a kid. But if you're trying not to burn dinner, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood isn't on, and your toddler already did 3 hours of blocks and play-dough, then a computer can be a great tool. Better than TV by a long shot. Manual dexterity, associating word images, and learning his alphabet are all things my 2 & 1/2 year did on a laptop. Now he's learning to read and add 1 + 2.. "Look Daddy I'm 3 just like the answer!" And he does it because he wants to. He's "working like daddy!"
We didn't get a kids lapotop. He just uses my wife's Dell.
To all you rude folks with no kids (or dull ones) offering unhelpful answers, if you can't play nicely then you need to put your keyboard away.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Get him a nice red rubber ball and play catch in the backyard! The idea that you would stick a young child in front of a computer at 2 borders on child abuse. He needs to learn how to speak well, how to coordinate his muscles, and how to interact with people. Not how to punch buttons on a fucking box!
While you are at it, buy yourself a copy of Dr. Spock's book and read it.
Brett
Contrary to all the advice from child "experts" posting on this topic, most of whom probably never raised a child, go ahead and get a laptop for your child.
If you bought books for his age wouldn't you have to hold them, turn the pages for him, and read the contents to him and point out the pictures? Of course, How is a laptop any different? It's not. The big advantage you'll have with a laptop is that as he gets older and smarter you won't have a pile of discarded books to dispose of. You'll just browse to websites designed for kids the current age of yours.
A few years ago I bought a laptop as a college graduation gift for my daughter and put MEPIS on in dual boot mode so she could use OpenOffice and not break her piggy bank buying an Office license. I suspected that her 4 year old son would want to use it too, and Linux has lots of free games for youngsters. He learned to use the mouse playing Bubbles, and it taught him timing and coordination as well. Now, at 7, he is a master of the keyboard and mouse, and holds no fear of either the computer or the Internet. Mommy has no fear either because he can't visit undesirable websites.
My Son began reading children's astronomy books to my second grandson before he was a year old. Later, my son began showing him NASA launch videos on Youtube. Now, at 2 1/2, he can name the planets on sight, and list them in order from Venus outward. He can name the class of rocket on any launch video he sees, and he can identify the Moon, Venus and Jupiter in the evening sky. Because his dad introduced him to his laptop computer when he was barely a year old, Jordan is comfortable around it and the mouse. To him it is just another tool, just like his toy tools set.
A laptop is just a more powerful and useful book. Oh, before some of you self-appointed experts spout off some more nonsense from Dr. BenjaminSpok about them turning into couch potatoes or social introverts, both boys are very outgoing, athletic and love to romp and play with their moms and dads, their friends, and with grandpa! :-)
Get the child a computer. It will do BOTH you a ton of good and will be a good bonding experience. Your "thing" together!
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
If you want to get your 2 year old a coputer, get the CHEAPEST Refirb you can! The Eee PC and other "NetBooks" often cost MORE than a refurbished laptop, and have 1/3 the power and resources.
Another option is to get a computer that is not portable. Get a desktop, that way when the keyboard is full of PB&J you do not have to try to clean it, you just swap it out for another $2.00 keyboard. A desktop with LCD screen can be had for about the price of the Eee PC. And will have even more power than refurbished laptop!
The best solution... If you already have an existing laptop or desktop, get yourself an updated one, and give the old computer to the youngster. Someone at the age of 2 will not know the difference... And may even be more exited at having Dad's old computer than having a new one.
He knows his child better than you do. My daughter is not a "prodigy" but she, too was fascinated by the computer when she was two. The first thing she grabs playing with her friend a few doors over is the play laptop (a toy her friend shows no interest in at all).
At two, she wanted to sit in my lap and play Tuxpaint (a.k.a. paint-penguins - since all the machines here run linux she calls all programs *-penguins - paint-penguins, running-penguins, sliding-penguins...)
At first she didn't have the motor skills to use the mouse - especially the full-sized one so she would point or describe what she wanted.
But kids catch you off-guard with what they learn. A bit before she turned three, she typed her name and "mommy", "daddy" plus a couple other words. She could also type the alphabet.
I picked up a laptop mouse that fit her hand and by 3-1/2 or so she was not only playing Tuxpaint on her own but navigating the menus to start the programs she wanted.
But be careful what you wish for. Kids may be good at figuring things out but they have lousy impulse control. If he learns how to do things on the computer, don't expect that telling him "you have to ask daddy before touching" will protect you. My daughter will jump in my lap and "get to work" - not so good when I'm remoted into work trying to repair a server.
There are some great free programs available - Tuxpaint for starters (available for Win/Mac, too). But given that they need supervision, a separate computer isn't necessary at this point. If you really want to get him his own, I think the OLPC is probably the best bet in terms of durability. I think that the buy one donate one deal is available again.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
If your child is anything like my nephew (not quite 2 year old), then I would have to recommend this, it would be the only electronic device that would last more than 5 minutes with him.
I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
Some suggestions :
1. Crayons
2. Markers ( washable if your smart )
3. Read to him
4. Turn all screens off in his presence. Give him your attention, 100%
At not even two years old, a child is still totally grappling with training its motor functions. A tiny keboard is a rubbish interface for a child of that age. Using a mouse (a trackpad is no good for this) with child-related software is as much as you can do but at not even two they are too young for this as well. You mistake that the Fisher-Price type stuff looks like a rip-off and is bad but the point is that it's also taken into account creating interfaces that are actually helpful and child-friendly. Get your child some interactive books / systems that are specially targeted at development and which you can sit and do with them. Leapfrog have graded kit from 12-36 months and up in age brackets thereafter. http://www.leapfrog.com/en/families/leapster/leapster_learning0/leapster.html . My 3 and 6 year old have had this stuff from an early age and the ability to use laptops, pcs and Nintendo DS etc. I found that between the ages of 2 to 4 / 5 they still preferred the Leapster etc.
My kids have had computers at their disposal since they were 2. My computers of choice? OLD ONES!!!
Their first computer was a 800MHz cast-off which my office sold off at a cheap price. Perfect kids computer, plays most kids-oriented games, and best of all, I didn't have to worry when they used crayon on the screen or yanked hard on the CD tray or spilled chocolate milk all over it. It's since been "upgraded" to my wife's previous computer.
If this is the first time you've had a very young kid around a computer, then you can't imagine how tough he will be on technology. He may be gentle when you're around, but as a 2-to-4-year-old, he will test his environment and his surroundings (including the percussive durability of his surroundings), often when you're not around to stop him.
If you really really really want to buy new, then you may want to consider the OLPC, currently on a get-one-give-one deal at Amazon: One Laptop per Child XO Laptop (Give a Laptop, Get a Laptop). This is the legendary "durable-for-kids-in-third-world-countries" laptop, and when you buy one for your tyke, you're also buying one to get shipped overseas to a disadvantaged tyke somewhere else in the world. It may serve your needs, and helps out a good cause.
I have to agree with the others that two is too young for this sort of thing. Three is a more appropriate age. That being said you might want to look at Leapster they have a bunch of good stuff that might be of interest. I like the posts that suggest older hardware but would recommend sticking to a lcd screen and getting extension cables on the keyboard and mouse. Children are apt to try and drag everything especially keyboards and mice off the table. having the extra cord and connectors to break away without fraggin the connections on the motherboard would be a good thing. You can also get a kiddy keyboard with bigger letters and shapes for younger typists. :)
Do keep in mind that you'll have to watch Jr. like a hawk. Kids are more capable than most people think, but leaving them alone with a laptop is actually pretty dangerous. If you're up to the challenge google the Montessori. There are tons of schools and websites out there that go into treating little people like big people. (Yes a three year old can cook their own eggs on a minature but functional stove.) They're probably really against the computers for kids this small but you never know. By the way my daughter is about ten now.
Have you got him his slashdot account yet? Since the UIDs are already in the millions, by the time he's in his teens and ready to really start using slashdot, OK- ten, that number might be as high as 2 to 2.5 to maybe even 3 million. So save that "low" single million UID now so he'll have built in cred in a few years.
Just imagine that proud moment in only a few years when he's asking you about Natalie Portman and hot grits! Or when he wake's you in the middle of the night because he clicked on something expecting to see a goat. Good times! And why wait when you can get him started now?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
The only items that will stand up to a two year old are made of stone or a hard metal such as iron or steel. If you are going with steel I recommend stainless.
I made the best possible computer for my son: I took a dead laptop without a screen, and put a cheap plastic mirror in its place. He loves to open it up, look at things in the mirror, hammer the keyboard. The mirror isn't flat, so it's different from the other mirrors we have.
He's enjoyed it since before he could walk, and he still likes it at two.
As others have said, kids want real things to interact with, and they want to do what they see others doing. If you use a computer, he'll probably enjoy using a "computer". But just because you're reading /. doesn't mean he should be too. His computer doesn't need to work (in the broadest sense) the same way yours does.
I think 2 is a little early but then again my son started to play with the mouse sitting in my lap at that age so who am I to judge. They see us doing it and like everything else, they want to do the same thing and interact with the thing. Come 3 or 4 then they actually want to do something with it. I have been there, got the critics, looked around for products. What I find works best is an old laptop with CD/DVD drive for films and Internet. Use the DVD for films when you travel and the Internet for web base flash games. Don't get the kids mouse. Use a regular mouse. They are bigger and easier for them to use. Most of the morning kids TV shows have flash games on their web site and the kids love that because they know the characters. My son is now 5, goes to the computer, clicks on a desktop shortcuts and plays the flash game. His kinder garden class has Internet and 4 computers they share with games. Not any game. Semi-educational games. Colors, number, language stuff like that. I have also setup a blog for the class and the teacher and parents can interact posting updates and pictures of a teddy bear the class share custody on week-end. The bear is a loan from a fictionist teacher who is traveling all around the world and needed someone to take care of it while she is gone. Boy do they like that bear. The travelling teacher sends them letters and gives them updates of her trip and things she as seen. Last week it was the Eiffel Tower. Boy do I love this school. It's a public school with a scientific vocation.
My twin boys started using the Leapfrog computer at about 2.5 years old. At 3, they know how to use the mouse and the interface well enough to choose and play the games ! Seriously, 3yo and they can use the mouse (it's a Mac-like 1-click)
They know the alphabet, and love playing the games where you use the keyboard to pick letters. Likewise, they use the arrows to play the puzzle games, and YES, they can do all this at 3 ! They even know how to load carts and turn the thing on (they know how to turn on/off nearly everything though, lol)
http://www.leapfrog.com/gaming/clickstart/
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
Give the kid an Etch-A-Sketch and teach him you shake it to reboot.
You all realize you have just been trolled by the OP?
https://www.speakservers.com/
As a parent, I also know that you probably aren't going to listen to much from Slashdotters, and that you definitely want to have a machine as a holiday gift. In that case, you should get an XO Laptop from the One Laptop per Child project. For $399, you get a nearly indestructible machine for yourself, and you send one to a needy child in a developing country. In a couple of years, you and your child will be able to use this together. In the meantime, you can know that you are supporting a good cause and helping another child.
In a possible future, the young lady's illustrated primer would be what you're after
Use a desktop. You can replace the keyboard relatively inexpensively when he breaks it.
My (now) 3 year old has destroyed the keys on two laptop keyboards, and we did not even let him use the computer. Letting him near it was close enough. You see, he likes to bang on things to see what sound they make. He likes to bang on things in general. I have to hold his hands when letting him watch video on a laptop simply because he will see me using the keyboard and try to imitate me. Except in a rather forceful and imprecise manner. Keys need not be pried to be removed.
I too would like to have a kid-proof laptop, but I just don't see them being made. Instead, I've been making him blinking lights in relatively robust cases. He likes playing with something that he can touch and make it light up or make sounds; he doesn't necessarily care for what's on the screen, unless, of course, it's Thomas the Tank Engine or Firetrucks!(TM).
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
My 2 year old is all about playing with the PC too. Screw a netbook or a laptop of any kind. My 2 year old has ripped the keys off my laptop 3 times.
Get him a nice inexpensive desktop.It is more durable and then he can work on his hand-eye coordination with the mouse. My son had taken it upon himself to play with my Office desktop and has become quite proficient with moving the mouse to where he wants and clicking.
My kids started playing with the computer when they were about that age, BUT NOT MY LAPTOP!!! Assuming you have a desktop computer, put a cheap keyboard in front of them, downlaod free kids apps that make lots of sounds and lights. Cheap way to have them begin to learn that pressing keys on a board has a response from the computer. Won't help them grow smart, but should entertain them for about 34 seconds or so. Then the two year old will scream from something else to do.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
I don't have any advice on hardware choice, but there have been a lot of negative comments and I felt compelled to lend my support - from personal experience.
I remember my (10 years younger) brother playing Sticky Bear Alphabet on an Apple2e before the age of two. Hitting a letter on the keyboard cycled between two words for each letter - each with a simple animation. Within a short time he progressed from random bashing to being able to keep the state of each letter in memory - so that at ANY time you could walk up to him and ask him "what is the next picture for letter X" for every letter, and he would know. This was while he was still on the bottle and still in his first baby seat.
I attribute his early exposure to this educational game to have significantly advanced his language skills. One distinct memory I have is just before he started primary school - I knew he was reading very well but he being cocky about it - so thinking I would cut him down to size I asked him to read the legalese of the back of my driver's license - which he promptly did reading "The commissioner of police hearby grants the bearer..." - which took me quite by surprise. It was obvious he hadn't seen the larger words before but had fairly fluently just sounded them out as he went - and I thought to myself "oh my god, this year they are going to teach him how to spell CAT and DOG".
That is the downside. School bored him. In class he would zip through his worksheets and then assist his classmates - and get in trouble for talking/helping - which really discouraged him. A good teacher would have extended him, but generally the public school system is not set up to handle an anomally like that.
I directly attibute his early intelligence and confidence to the alphabet game he played as a toddler. He has always been very social and now at 25 is a teacher. Too much computer time could create other issues, but overall its been a positive benefit. You will need to pay attention to counter-balancing this with physical and social activities. I will be looking to do the same in a while with my (now 1 year old) baby girl.
A desktop unit would be safer and more practical for a two year old. The CPU and screen can be placed out of reach and sticky fingers and tantrum fists will only ruin cheap keyboards and mice. If you must get a portable the OLPC would be the best for a child and the G1G1 program will provide another child with a learning tool. At two years of age a child should be learning all sorts of things. However, ingraining and encouraging the child to become a socially isolated, sedentary keyboard potato is not recommended. Wooden blocks, simple musical instruments, crayons and paper, large packing boxes, pillows to build a fort, dolls, picture books - these will encourage learning and imagination. Computers, not so much at that age. Children need a environment that is rich in physical and mental stimulus, is stable, and is reassuring. A computer couldn't hurt (if proper precautions are taken) but is the least necessary learning tool at two years of age.
My son self-taught himself most of the kids flash games on sites like nickjr and cbeebies from the age of around 3
An eeepc is not a baby toy. Moreso it's crappy display won't fit any of the above games on it and will be useless for anything baby-friendly. If you want one to read /. on and check your gmail then go for it.
Let your child use a real PC/laptop with a real mouse/keyboard under your supervision. Fire up youe browser. Hit F11 for fullscreen, find some kiddy-friendly flash games and play away.
I'm skipping the current eee-pc generation entirely. they really aren't as good as you think they are.
give him a break... for a couple more years...
and btw. he will always end up on your laptop (even if you give him 10 alternative computers to play with) since forbidden fruit is always the sweetest...
When my daughter was one or two, she was more interested in the keyboard than anything else. I solved this by finding an old (indestructible) apple keyboard (with no cable) and letting her have that. She was happy to imagine the rest of the computer.
She still has that keyboard now (at six) and has been known to build her own "PC" out of boxes and other things.
There are many ways to foster interest in what you do, but there's no need to rush it. They'll get there when they're good and ready.
Sure, I'll swap.
My kids (now 3 and 6) use old thinkpad t22 - it's totally kids-proof. It was dropped from the table several times, hit with ball, you can see tooth marks on the lid etc. There's great tux-paint drawing app (there's no need to be able to read to use it), there are few great sites for youngsters, eg. www.uptoten.com Remember to limit the time spend at computer (like 30 minutes/day for 2-5 years old - it may sound long but we don't watch TV at all). You may need to prepare content-filtering proxy (Squid+addons serves well) and turn on "safe" mode in google (my son uses google since 5).
-- mg
If your kid demonstrates some skill, then by all means encourage that. Others comments seem to imply that computers and real life are mutually exclusive, but of course they aren't. It is possible interact with a computer and the real world at different times. When my little guy was 2, he had an old desktop in his room that I made from parts salvaged from upgrades. He used it to play Sammy's Science House and Broderbund interactive stories (the beaver's rap in the Tortoise and the Hare was a great favorite). He learned how to click and navigate around and was entertained in a way where he was in control (in contrast to TV watching). I would not recommend a new anything at that age though, because they just don't understand the consequences of their actions. Give him something you don't mind if he destroys :-)
And lest you think that computer access destroys children....
my son is 11 now, and he's mucked around with the DarkGDK and Visual Studio - actually written some pretty cool stuff with Scratch. He's a straight A student and in a gifted program in our school board.
But he's also goalie for his hockey team in the winter, plays soccer in the summer, takes tae kwon do and boxing classes and runs track.
You just have to encourage ALL aspects of their development. Only you can be the judge of what the appropriate time is.
My daughter loves to play tuxpaint and ktuberling on our touch screen laptop (HP tx series). She is 3 now but had mastered tuxpaint with the touch screen (using the sytlus even) before she was two. Great fun and a nice activity after you've done all the playdoh and puzzles you can handle.
She also knows how to launch her videos from their desktop icons etc.
The touchscreen is a must as the coordination neccessary to properly use a mouse and/or keyboard just isn't there at such a young age.
Enjoy!
Again! Another place that linux fits the bill.
Just disrupt the deflector shield with a tachyon burst.
My son's nearly 3 and has an old (slightly broken) ThinkPad loaded with Ubuntu Intrepid, and some parts of the NetBook Remix:
At 2.5, I'm not worried about him typing in an address and seeing something he shouldn't, and the speed dials are big enough to get him to Thomas and Friends, CBeebies, Kneebouncers and a few other sites.
The mouse pointer size is bumped up to maximum (Preferences > Appearance > Themes > Advanced, IIRC) and the speed dials have really helped him with his mouse control, and he can now navigate pretty much unaided around the CBeebies website, playing the Flash games there.
And no, we don't use this as an electronic babysitter.
Why not simply get him a large cardboard box? He'll enjoy it more than a computer.
If it makes you feel better you can draw an "Intel inside" logo on it.
I think this could benifit a 2 year old quite well...first get him a linux based machine, then start teaching him basic linux commands. And he presco, you'll have yourself a sysAdmin in no time!
I got my 5-year-old nephew interested in the Fantastic Contraption http://fantasticcontraption.com/
It's just his speed for learning about physics and problem solving and he gets all beside himself every time he solves a level.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Your son isn't interested in electronics, he's interested in whatever you are doing. Since you are on the computer, he's interested in doing that. We set up a little desk for my son right next to mine so that he has something to play with that's just like daddy.
Yes, it's a bullshit electronic baby sitter, but sometime I'm in a pinch for time and have to get a little work done. It's not like we leave him on it all hours of the day. Just when I need to do some work and mom is in the hospitol. We play with him and read to him all the time so before anyone decides to be a dick about it, piss off.
Now that I've said that, the most important thing is to just let him pretend he's doing what you do. 2 year olds don't give a damn about what's going on, they just like that when they push buttons things happen. So just make it so the screen does something when he hits buttons. And then put it in a VM and set the "escape sequence" to something insane so that you don't have to fix his toy ever.
But please, recognize the fact that he's only interested in the computer because he's seen you playing with it. If he's really all obsessed with it, it's likely because you're ignoring him while on it to much.
Get off the computer(s) and change some diapers!
Maybe spend some time with the spouse as well to produce another child, or is a toy to you?
Get a grip man; nearly two is too soon *.*
I'd suggest some lego's for him. They will build spatial reasoning and manual dexterity; way too soon for a computer of any sort.
just my quarter...
-mark
Your child is interested in you, what your interests are. If you give him something that you don't use, he will lose interest fast. You are a father and, presumably, a husband... NOTHING IS YOURS ANYMORE. Get over your materialism, and let him play on your computer.
The Admin and the Engineer
There's well-known .netter out there called Scott Hansleman, he's written a freeware program called Baby Smash for windows, which might be a better option.
http://www.hanselman.com/babysmash/
Baby Smash locks down the keyboard and responds to "keystrokes" (ie baby-smashes) with coloured shapes / letters and numbers. Letting junior learn that input gets a response on a computer. Except after BSOD :-) .ALT-F4 exits the application and Shift-Ctrl-Alt-O opens the options. Scott has a link to "Alpha Baby" if you prefer to use a Mac (in fact he says himself Baby Smash is a "homage" to Alpha Baby).
This doesn't solve the problem of keyboards and salivia not mixing terribly well however....
Your daughter is way to young for a proper laptop... maybe you can just get her a mac.
I believe those things can even go in a bathtub, and are useful noise makers when bashed against a solid surface - kids love em!
----------------------------
Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
my son is 11 now, and he's mucked around with the DarkGDK and Visual Studio - actually written some pretty cool stuff with Scratch. He's a straight A student and in a gifted program in our school board.
But he's also goalie for his hockey team in the winter, plays soccer in the summer, takes tae kwon do and boxing classes and runs track.
But seriously, kudos for teaching your child to keep a healthy balance between intellectual and physical activities! I've recently became a parent, and this is also one of my main objectives.
Cheers & Best Luck,
XnPlater
:(){
30 seconds of enthusiastic keyboard pounding was all it took for my 2 year old to snap about 5 keys off my old Dell Inspiron's keyboard. Using a chunky desktop keyboard turned out much better. He found the mouse a lot more fun though. Try using a really big mouse pointer, slowing the pointer speed right down, then going to a site like Cbeebies where there are lots of interesting things to click on and games you can do together.
I purchased an older laptop on Craigslist, installed a self customized live CD with childrens games, drawing, noise makers etc... Buy a $5 mouse and $10 or less keyboard. Next, open the machine flat and place it at a small kids table with only the monitor sticking up into view. This works great to keep the machine safe and monitor at the back of the table almost out of reach. Next, zip tie the cords for the mouse and keyboard to the leg of the table so when they send it flying it does not damage the connector on the laptop. One more thing, break off a toothpick under the right mouse button. If you skip the toothpick it will take a long time before they figure out that only one of the mouse buttons actually works. Laptop travel mice come in smaller formats and fit great in a childs small hand. For a while, my daughter who is now 3, went through a phase where she liked to pull the keys out of the keyboard. This was great, she is learning how things go together and come apart. She had long quit putting things in her mouth before she was strong enough to do this. Now she likes to sit and paint on a Reader Rabbit game for about 10min a day. Really, to her it is just another toy. The nice thing is, it is a toy she understands. She also has a basic understanding of the relationship of mouse and screen as well as icons and activities. My son went through this same phase but never pulled the keys out. Both of my kids are very active. They prefer to ride bikes in the yard, build forts from the couch, color with crayons, throw paper airplanes from upstairs to downstairs and watch their favorite programs on TV when allowed. My nephew, who is about 8 months younger than my son is never allowed to touch a computer. At family gatherings, he will stand and stare at a computer for hours while the other kids run around, play with tracks, hot wheels, dolls and toy kitchens. I don't think it is solely the lack of computer exposure, but I do think if he had exposure it would help get him away from it when there are other fun activities. I think computers for this generation are as basic a household item as a TV was for us. Helping them understand it early will give an advantage of understanding in the future. It will also make it less magical to them. If there are other kids around, my kids still prefer to run and play. So my point is that you need to limit and be in control of your childs computer time, right from the beginning. I do not believe this is going to ruin a child any more or less than a TV set. Just do not forget that you are the parent and you know what is best. Here is a live CD I made that opens Firefox to the Disney games page on the web with no address bar and no exit other than powering down. Basically it becomes an unofficial Disney Kiosk. It is the last item on the list of files. http://www.homesopen.com/slax581/other/ Keep in mind that everyone will be quick to give you advise about how to raise your kids. You know best what your kids are capable of and what you want to do for them. Just don't forget that you are the parent. Always be in control of your child, not the other way around and you will be OK. - Parent of two happy healthy kids.
My son was eighteen months old. I had a spare Macintosh that ran OS9 and I got the Living Books cd-roms. Those have a "run on our own" mode and an "explore" mode. I moved the keyboard out of reach and put the machine on the floor of his room.
In the morning he would watch the alphabet, and then some other Dr. Seuss book. After a few months he figured out the mouse and by two navigated all over the living books.
It must have worked. He reads all his Manga on his iMac, is nearly thirteen and is a total D&D fanatic.
http://xkcd.com/327/
Well my 2 year olds (I have 3 kids ranging from 5->12 yrs now) when they were twoish got a dumpster-dived beige box which we run GNU/Linux (back then Mandrake, now Ubuntu). All three of my kids can recognise TUX from 50 yards. They are all happy with picking which OS they run as everything I build is dual booted. Some games on Ubuntu and some on Windows XP. Kids just do NOT have the need for fast machines until they get to FPS or more complex sims like Homeworld. To make it not a beige box and make it personal just let them go wild with a spray can and paint on the case.
Because a computer is pretty limited for them until s/he is able to read. Reading to your child from a book is a great way to not only socialize and bond with them, as well as getting their imagination active.
He might still want on your computer, which is fine, but find something simple for him to do (you might consider having a look at http://virtualapple.org/ for some old, but good games.) and put him in your lap while he does it so you can help guide him, and keep your equipment from getting destroyed. No 2 year old should be on a computer alone.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
...but lets face it when she gets up from her bone and comes over I put it aside and play with her.
I commend you for wanting to get your child a computer. Kids like to mimic what adults do -- it is an important part of child development. As long as you don't direct the play too much, it is just as valuable as when your kid 'cooks dinner' or 'dos laundry' or 'gardens' or what have you. Computers aren't some sort of evil out to kill your child. The people here who are terrified of children and computers really need to get their heads away from the screen and accept that computers are simply another tool that people use. I know you want to keep your computer mystique to yourselves, but get over it. It's not like handing the kid a power saw or the keys to a car. As long as the OP understands that the computer might be broken, and doesn't get upset, then it should be just fine. And lapware is just as much fun to bond with as reading a book together. And yes, I did both. The one child without early exposure or interest in computers (out of my three) is actually the one with the severe developmental delays.
Don't listen to these nay sayers. Two is plenty old for a computer. Just don't get a laptop. Go get a full PC that is on sale. With a full PC you don't have to worry about the kid being rough. A keyboard is cheap and highly durable. If your kid can't keep their hands off the screen, and they are too rough for an LCD, get a CRT. There really isn't anything else for the kid to break. Oh, and get one of those tiny 'laptop' mice that they sell. It will fit his hand much better than a full size adult mouse.
I know that I set up my son's first computer for him shortly after he turned one. I installed Ubuntu Linux and loaded gCaprice for him to play the mouse games with. I gave him less than 5 minutes instruction on how the colored blocks will disappear and show a picture when you move the mouse pointer over them. I let him play with that for a few hours, and then I showed him how to turn the computer on and load gCaprise from the menu. This took less than another 5 minutes. By the next day, he not only could load gCaprice on his own, but he was playing other games that I had not showed him how to load.
About a week after his second birthday, I formatted his hard drive, gave him a fresh Ubuntu disk, and told him to install it himself. He did this with no help. (Linux is amazingly easy to install.)
You are 100% right that those cheap 'Toy' laptops are pointless. They are less interesting to kids with their gray character only LCD screen, and they don't do as much. Your kid can certainly use a full computer. A full computer is hard to break physically, and if he breaks the software, you can just do a reinstall of the OS. If you want something like a computer that is portable for car rides and whatnot, I would highly recommend a Leapster from Leap Frog. It is very durable, is colorful, and has lots of educational and FUN games. It is not a replacement for a computer, but it is a very good portable computing toy.
At age 2, I "attempted" to play Civilization.
At age 4-5 I was browsing on dial-up.
At 6-7 I was programming in visual basic...
Your kid if he is truly interested, will learn.
Thank god for my parents.
My kids, 6 and 3, use a hand-me-down white MacBook. The machine has been tarded up appropriately to stop them from breaking things (Simple Finder, Parental Control locks on Safari for whitelisted sites only, no IM, admin password unknown to children required to change any setting).
They are not allowed to eat or drink while at the computer, and the computer is not to be moved from its desk.
Within these constraints, they have a ball. The machine is loaded up with all their favourite movies (one click on pictographic icon launches VLC in fullscreen mode), and the sites where they play games (TVOntario Kids, BBC Kids, etc.) are bookmarked.
My 6 year old can videoconference with GTalk with my wife and I elsewhere in the house, but cannot initiate chats outside of the LAN. My 3 year old hasn't quite got the hang of negotiating the necessary dialogue boxes yet, but he'll pick it up soon.
We haven't bought much in the way of educational software, since the process of separating the wheat from the chaff is too labour intensive (most of it sucks the proverbial wang). We make do with web sites (like I Love Bacteria) and educational Flash games.
Hope this helps!
These stories are free but worth money.
I got my niece the cheap $15 dollar one when she was a little over a year old...she is now a little over two years old and she loves it. Maybe when she is about 4 I would consider a netbook, but right now, all she really wants to do is click the buttons on my computer, so the cheap $15 dollar one that has a few interactive mini-games (word recognition, counting, motor skills, etc) is perfect for her.
Come on folks! Less than two is a preschooler and a very young one at that. The preschool years are VERY important. They should be learning about social interaction not computer interaction. They should be learning their FIRST language not a computer language. They should be learning how to get along with others not get along with a computer. A young child has a lot of important learning to do and a computer is not one of them. There is a whole lot of time later on to learn about computers. This is not one of them.
If he is 2, any sort of laptop is kind of ridiculous. New parent? Go look at the leapfrog toys if you must get something electronic, but honestly this is not the time for it anyway, this is the time when they AREN'T absorbed in electronic toys and a parent is the best toy for his mind. (I have 4 boys and a girl)
When my son turned three I taught him to use a trackball to surf thomas the train YouTube Videos. Granted sometimes context menus comeup and he says "Daddy I'm Stuck." I feel exposing him this early is good. I bought a Dell Mini9 for Christmas(for myself) and I going to see how he does with. The Mini9 construction is pretty solid, but my main concern is him dropping it or his 1-year old brother pushing it off a table or something. Another problem I have had is some of the youtube videos are less than appropriate for pre-schoolers.. (Just do a youtube search for Thomas the Tank Engine Rap) I think as long as it is in a place where he can't drop it, and you monitor what he gets into that it is a great idea.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." ~Me
I was sitting on this very low-to-the-ground chair, when my then-one-year-old daughter, with a huge smile on her face, started to crawl up on my lap. I smiled right back, entranced with the huge, loving smile on her face. Our gazes were locked, and my smile only wavered when I saw that her hands, her dainty child's hands, were planted on either side of my PowerBook G4's screen, pulling it down and back...
*kerrrr-ack!*
"Oh........"
-- haaz.
Agreed with most posters. I'm 22, using computer since 2 (for games, of course) and not disagree with my parents. I've bought eee pc 901 for my child.
I haven't looked at them in a few months, but I remember being intrigued by some of the ideas within the OLPC program to promote transperency within the OS and software. Primarily, they had a 'view source code' key on the keyboard which would display the currently running program's source.
I know it was initially an interest in the 'mystery' behind games/programs that led me to begin programming as a kid. Unfortunately, i'm afraid Apple IIs are a little harder to come by now.
I would get a cheap desktop and focus on your input devices. I'd recommend a tough, washable keyboard and mouse and let the kid go nuts.
Little kids are curious about all kinds of stuff in the world and computers are no exception. We used a laptop and 'bookie stories' on the computer as form of interactive reading/story telling along with regular books and outdoor play time.
Some of our kid's favorite interactive story titles include:
The important element here was not the fact it was a computer, it was Daddy Time.
To keep things IN BALANCE we also planted a little veg garden with beans, peas, sunflowers and strawberries. The kids would check and water the plants every day and then eat the pods and berries right off the bush. Sunflowers were a gift to mom for the kitchen table.
Every morning before I left for work, we had a bag of simple wood blocks. I'd set up some kind of house with it and my son would check each morning what I built with an impressive 'OOOOHHHHH', knock it down, then build his own.
Physical activity is very important at this stage. We took our kids to a kind of indoor/outdoor early development club called Gymboree that had soft stuff to climb on, slide down, stuff to crawl through, jumping, balance and all that for the gross motor skills.
Is baby screaming in the stroller? Let 'em walk. Next to the stroller and tucker out in no time, then sleep happily.
When they're 5 or 6, sign them up for scouts, sports to start to see where their talents lie. Keep the competition of the sports in perspective. Until they're at least 8 or 9, sports are for fun and sportsmanship, not about winning. Scouts gives a broad variety of experience and development from citizenship, outdoors, crafts, etc. After school, its a required part of our kid's routine.
But I don't think flexibility and power is what you should be looking for in a gizmo for a less than 2 year old child. Those little fake laptops are suitable because it allows a child to role play doing what adults and older kids are doing. And dragging them on to your lap and showing them things interactively with some good software on your desktop is going to be far more enriching than a tiny cheap laptop that they can't use anyways.
When they get to be 3-4 you should consider getting one of those leapfrog leapster systems. It's colorful, makes noise and at the recommended age range kids are quite capable of figuring out how to play with it by themselves.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
A Sega Genesis with the Barney game. With a child that young they are simply not ready for a laptop, but I gave mine a Sega Genesis with the Barney game and they not only loved it, but it was their first taste of controlling something on screen. Nice thing about that Sega Barney game is there really isn't a way for him to "lose" and thus becomes about what he can make Barney do. Now my boys are 15 and 13 and are a lot more tech minded than their classmates.
Once he hits 4 then you can look up some of the excellent learning games for a desktop, I wouldn't touch a laptop because it is easier to replace a cheap keyboard when they slip and break it(which they WILL do) than a broken laptop. So I'd pick up a cheap Sega Genesis with a couple of 3 buttons(also built like tanks) and the Barney game. And as a bonus you can pick up a copy of Mutant League Football to play with him when he gets older. But at that age a laptop is simply out of the question unless you are just trying to throw money away.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I teach computer concepts at the local JC and am amazed at how many people come in straight out of high school and can't do simple things like use a file manager, or understand the basics, so yeah maybe I am jumping the gun a little, but only with good intentions.
Anyways, thank you to those that had constructive comments, I will hold off and try a leapfrog system, or something like it for now. The reason I was thinking an Eee was because of the form factor, and it being easier for small hands to use.
I hooked a mac mini up to the TV and got a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. The PC stays out of reach and OSX is about as easy to use and kid friendly as you will find in an OS. Of course 2 is way to young for any computer... you should wait at least another year or two.
We've got one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Vtech-Tote-Go-Laptop-Plus/dp/B000E1PY6U
And it serves it's purpose just fine. Our 2 1/2 year old can recognize most of the letters already. She's obviously not using all the games (some are a little beyond her, frankly), but it's nigh-indestructable, and $20 if they happen to destroy it.
We don't really encourage its use, but she picks it up from time to time anyway. I still have more fun with the blocks, personally.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Baby's First laptop might be a good idea.
When my son was 3 I gave him a Windows 98 machine with a 300 Mhz Pentium II processor and educational software like "Jumpstart Baby" and "Just Me and my Grandpa" installed on it.
Before that he got the $20 to $30 toy laptop, and when he didn't destroy that thing he got the real computer later.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Try a fucking implant. Nerve stapling is pretty affordable these days... GEEEZ!
...with a big metallic joystick. Most of the time I guess I was sitting next to my elder brother watching he playing anyway.
The single-digit addition game was fun though, so did watching the altimeter shooting 10k feet in the Flight Sim.
Apple IIe was big and was very easy to handle for children. Big joystick, big 5.25" Floppy and big power switch.
And UMPC, would it be a little bit too tiny for the children?
2 is definitely too early...I don't even recall if I know A-Z by then...
Great trade. :-)
At two he is way too young to be messing with a computer. If he started with one now he would probably by about 10 become a computer genius. But it would mess him up mentally. He would not know all the other things that the other kids know. At this age he needs to get out and go have some fun, discover the great outdoors. And most importantly books. My kids will learn computers, deffinately especially in the day and age that we live in. But they will know books before anything. Literature is a dying art. Somebody needs to appreciate it, unlike todays kids. I am 15 and I started computers when I was 7. And I know plenty, so don't worry, he will know what he needs to know about them soon enough. You don't have to start at 2. :)
-Steve "The Geek" Hencye
Because the following will happen:
1) Someone will take a crayon to the screen
2) If they have siblings, it will get yanked off table while they fight over keyboard
3) it'll sit there, hardly ever used, until they either figure out how to watch movies on it (DVDs) or get old enough to use it.
Really under the age of four you should play on the computer with them, not let them have one. There are always exceptions to that but until three/four years of age their dexterity and fine motor control can't handle a mouse, and the keyboard is just something you beat on instead of recognizing the letters.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Go find yourself an old TI 99/4A and an old Coax-input TV. I started on that when I was four and it stood up to just about anything I could do to it. It lasted me from 1986 until the heyday of the P-166 w/MMX. Cartridge-based games, and you can start teaching the kid programing (I learned how to program the TI to draw a sprite using the included TI-BASIC manual at the age of 6.)
Without it I'd probably have never gotten as interested in computers.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I bought my son one of the OLPC XO Give-one-Get-ones last year. He just turned two then, and just turned three earlier this month.
My son loved to use the camera option on it (I bought one of those sites that fit in the USB port next to the lens) so he'd run around the house taking pictures of stuff, and telling us about it. He also loves to play the Mini Tam Tam. Although he's having quite a problem learning that the touchpad on the laptop moves the mouse pointer on the screen, he enjoys clicking the mouse buttons to make the animals make noises. I also added VLC player and Hamachi on it so he can watch his Dora and Diego videos streamed from my media server. The only real problem is that the sites he likes to visit (Noggin and NickJr) don't allow all the features to be used unless you're using Windows/IE.
The key is, he's not ready to be alone with it -- not for safety reasons, but I'm not ready for the laptop to be a babysitter.
Point is, with Amazon coming out with another XO release (http://www.amazon.com/xo), I'm thinking of buying another one so I can teach him how to interact with someone using the Sugar interface.
your son will probably go blind by the age of 12 if u actually buy him a PC when he is 2.
my brother started at 7 and now his 19 and he cant even walk without his glasses.
i won't buy my children a computer till he/she is at least 9
When he's older, these skills will be a given as he works on higher concepts while the everything-is-fresh crowd is still mastering the keyboard.
Ibid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr7iyiFJtGM
and here his launching VLC player a few months later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8493IBAWqs
I have a 9 month old that learned from the first one (now 4 yrs old) and is able to navigate around youtube. Don't underestimate what how how fast your child can learn. I would suggest that you not push them though. Let them learn through their own discovery. You can provide them with the materials, but it is important for them to learn on their own.
HE IS 2 YEARS OLD FOR F*CK SAKES, THIS I WHAT'S WRONG WITH PARENTING TODAY...TV AND MACHINES DO NOT SUBSTITUTE PROPER CARE, NOR XBOX, NOR PS3.
He is 2 , he needs to learn to walk, even read if you can get him to understand letters.
I had taught my niece to count and do the alphabet phonetically by the age of 2. She may not
have known what it is, but by 3...letter association went very quickly, and by 3...could actually know what letters were which if you held out the letter, no matter which letter it was...by 4..she was
already writing her name, and understanding that letters make up whole words. In kindergarden, she was the first to read and write...I am sure it was not because we plunked down in front of a screen.
Sure, a kid can pop in a cd or dvd and watch his movie, or play his game at age of 3...but
the advantage comes at too great a loss, how many kids can't write or read properly for that matter.
Signatures are handwritten , yet I see so many people just use block letters to sign for something thinking that this is a signature, there is no association to writing skills any longer.
As well, how much vocabulary is being lost because kids of today, are strikingly going towards less is more, where abbreviations for everything seem to exist....lol,rofl,gtg,brb,owm, etc.. etc.
I am sorry for being too blunt about it, but kids should be outside playing being active, not becoming obese, in front of the screen learning to hack their parents credit cards, etc.
I'd suggest a low-end Mac (OSX) laptop.
While age 2 is a bit young... My daughter, who is 3, loves playing games on our Mac. And my son, age 5, can't be pried off it. (If I hadn't lost my job, we'd be buying him his own Mac this Christmas.)
I should mention that both my kids didn't start talking until after age 3. But we're pretty sure they could read before then. (They'd take out their foam letters and spell out words like "raft". Or open books and quietly go through them.)
Mac's have good parental controls. (Which helps!) They're also set up out-of-the-box to easily switch between users. (Which my kids mastered instantly! We close the laptop lid and they are there immediately, switching over to their accounts.)
Software-wise, my kids love http://pbskids.org & Tux-Paint.
For some reason my daughter also really loves Worms-2 (under windows). ("Daddy play worms. Pleeaaasssseeeee!" I am such a bad parent...)
My 5 year old has had a computer for 3 years. In fact I'm using it right now. My boss gave us a ~2001 IBM X40, their answer to the iMac. It has an lcd screen with the motherboard behind the screen and the drives etc in the base. It ran win98 and was totally hosed. The OS was unusable. It was accessing the drive every 2 seconds, and was impossibly slow. I gave up trying to fix that and installed edubuntu. It has a bunch of educational software included. I hated Gnome. I learned that mostly edubuntu is setup for easy networking for classrooms, so I installed kubuntu, and the education software from the installer program. One day he said, "Dad I want my computer to be blue." We took the case apart and painted the case blue. He's put stickers all the way around the screen bezel. It is our primary tv/dvd player. I've set up icons on the desktop that take him to a few different flash based games sites, like disney, thomas the tank engine, and the Doctor Who website. He loves these games. Most of the edubuntu games are for 5 and up, but a few are great even for a 2 year old.
I set up a link on his desktop to open a text editor so he can write things.
I gave him an email from my domain and set up thunderbird. He doesn't use this much.
He has a pictures folder with pics we've taken of him. He has a video folder with videos of him. I digitized an ancient CVR of Benji. He loves that movie. I did the same with the Wizard of Oz, another favorite.
He is perfectly comfortable with unpluging all the wires, getting me to move it to his room and setting back up by himself.
On my computer (winXP) we bought an inexpensive program called pixel whimsey. You run it and it takes over the keyboard and mouse completely. It's a sort of drawing program that is animated. each key on the keyboard does something. For instance you can paint something and make it rain and the drawing will melt. It's hard to describe with out sounding like total stoner. It's fun. To close the program you have to type "Qq". Short of spitting up on the keyboard or pouring juice on the cpu the kid wont screw up your computer.
-- QED
I know it's not a PC but a Mac Mini had held up to my daughter's use. She's had it since she was 4 (now 8). First program I got was Baby Smash, when she was still in the sit on lap and mess with my computer stage.
Just upgraded her to a G5 tower as she needs a real video card for the games she wants to play.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Even if this baby is a prodigy, the kid will benefit from being fully developed. It is a msitake to think that a kid that might one day become computer savvy will benefit from learning to use a computer at this age.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Use the "buy one, get one" program from Amazon. This laptop is DESIGNED for children. Thinking of anything else is absolutely nonsense.
Get him an IBM z series, because nothing is too good for bub!
*groans*
http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
an abacus...
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
wake up and realize that children as young as 2 need to develop various skills:physical, social, metacognition. a computer can capture their attention, and the ability to focus on something is an important step in metacognitive skills, but you're gonna turn your kid into an idiot if his early childhood development is poorly balanced with a computer at it's center...
buy your child toys that require him to exercise his brain and hands, like duplo/lego blocks, wooden stacking blocks, a trainset, or for that matter any early learning toy (there's alot of great early learning toys from germany, why don't you use the intertubes to look them up).
instead of buying him his own computer, let him use your computer TOGETHER WITH YOU, for carefully measured durations of time. in the mean time YOU need to LEARN how to interact with your child in meatspace, man. talk and sing and teach, build legos, take walks, fly a kite, be physically INTERACTIVE, not VIRTUAL.
deeper computer learning, and maybe his own computer might be more appropriate at age 5-7, not 2.
figure it out.
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
I haven't found the laptop keyboards to be great for a two year old; way too flimsy. I don't even let the older ones near the laptop; they just need to throw one tantrum and those keycaps would disintegrate. The typical desktop keyboard is fairly robust (as long as you keep food and drinks away from it, and discourage them from prying off the keys).
Another issue I have observed for young children (ie, <2yo) is that it takes them some time to realize the connection between moving the mouse and the motion of the cursor on the screen. They all seem to figure it out eventually, but I think they could have been using the computer much earlier if it had been a touch screen.
You've got to be pretty selective with software: do they use visual/aural cues (rather than written ones); how easy is it to exit the game, are they simple enough so that they don't frustrate the child; do they give hints; can you get stuck?
Some of the children's television websites have a good selection (BBC, Australian ABC, Children's Television Network, etc) covering different ages.
Of course, a computer screen isn't a substitute for tactile toys (building blocks, mud etc). But there is a middle road here.
Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children... and hitting them?
There's a reason Playskool and other childrens' toy makers produce toy versions of real things. Young children want to parrot behaviors such as using a computer, but they do not have the cognitive ability necessary to use a computer or even differentiate between the real and toy versions. Children this young do not have the ability of abstraction (see Paiget's stages of childhood development for details). Giving a child this young a computer would be to give them a very expensive Playskool version, for all they could do with it. In fact the Playskool version would have some built in functions that the child could learn from, unlike a real computer.
Don't give him a computer. Give him something to play with outside. Then put your own away and go out and play with him. Trust me, if you don't you'll regret it later. And later comes sooner than you think.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
at two years old -- just up from crawling, and now babling away, and lookin fer cookie jars -- he's just getting pinged by anything that blinks and beeps -- at that age, they learn anything you do by imitation -- i can't imagine why ANY baby would possibly need a computer at two years old...!?!? he needs much more to play 'catch the ball' with you and how to tie his shoelaces.
First of all. I see a lot of mocking from the other replies here. The way I read your question, you're not intending to use this as a nanny for your son.
So I'll just tell how I have done it. Instead of a Eee or Eee-like thingy, I have purchased this nifty "keyboard": http://www.comfyland.com - I have used one of my old desktop machines for this.
The computer is placed out of reach, only I and my wife can access the power-button. I use an 19" LCD which I have wall-mounted and all cables go through a hole in the wall to where the computer is placed. The comfy-keyboard can take a lot of beating. I bougth it for my 1st-born which is now six, currently my 2-year old son and 1-year old daughter are fighting over it.
And no - before I get flamed. This is not the only stimuli my children get. We read books, we listen to music, we enjoy outdoor life.
The sort of response you are chastising is very typical of ask slashdot responses. And there is nothing wrong with using the computer (or the TV) as a babysitter now and then for a short time, in the same way that you give a child a toy to play with by themselves.
If you spent every waking moment with your child you would both go insane, and you'd never get anything else done - meals still have to be cooked, dishes have to be cleaned, clothes have to be washed, etc, and everyone needs a few minutes to chill out and relax for a few minutes.
Obviously if you expect your child to spend every waking minute in front of a TV or on a computer then something is wrong, but the OP never said that, and never even implied that.
My 1 year old daughter often tries to hit keys on my keyboard, so I grabbed an Apple //e that's already been through life in a US school and hooked it up to our TV. Then I threw together a progam that changes the screen colour and plays a sound every time she hits a key. This has been fine so far, as she randomly bashes keys, but likes the result.
Pic here.
I wouldn't worry about more detail than that until your child cares about the difference between pressing "A" or "B".
Cheers,
Nick.
main() {1;}
My kids are just a bit past 3 and they still fancy tearing the keys off my laptop's and desktop's keyboards. Wait a bit.
a UMPC, such as an Eee PC or a Wind
Eee and Wind are not UMPCs, they are netbooks.
I guess you could give him an XO-1 and bolt it to the table. He might break off the ears, though. (The XO-1's 'don't' list says not for use by infants, but is silent on toddlers. :-)
The weak point is the screen - kids poke and bang it all the time. Try to get one with a hard touch sensitive surface, mostly for the screen protection. I added one to my Asus 701 eee and it works well. Unfortunately Asus still isn't selling a model with the touch screen built in. Otherwise the Asus eee line is durable and great.
If you're considering a laptop too, choose the smaller device. Kids tend to close laptops violently and large screens may get damaged, or at least the housing can be cracked.
Kids tend to do horrible things to CD/DVD drives. The fewer ports the better. Especially try to avoid large slots like double height PC Card slots. This isn't a problem with most netbooks, but worth mentioning anyway.
If you go for a netbook make sure you're getting the 1024x600 instead of the 800x480 screen. Lots of the kid's sites assume 1024 pixels width. I got the Asus 701 and wish I'd waited a few months for the 901.
Another option is an old desktop with a CRT. Its very hard to damage the screen, and if something gets in the keyboard you're out $5. If you go with an old desktop make sure the kid can't easily get to any of the external drive bays.
Also, get an undersized mouse. Either a mobile mouse or one made for a kid's hands. Logitech used to make a cute half-sized race car mouse, which is great. Kids have a rough time with trackpads. Also, mark the USB port he/she should use for the mouse with something like a drop of nail polish, and mark the mouse USB so they know which side is up. If you don't the kid will assume they're just not pushing hard enough and you'll end up with a mangled USB port.
On another note: My 2.5-year-old loves to play on the computer. He goes to PBS kids and helps Cailou build a train track, he helps Big Bird find his letters, and helps Mr. Snuffleupagus grow his garden. I show him the ropes with him sitting on my lap and guiding his hand and clicking. After only a few minutes he moves my hand away and is off and running, exploring and having fun. Don't listen to those trying to tell you otherwise, a general purpose computer can be a great learning instrument.
Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Control_Message_Protocol
Each ICMP message is encapsulated directly within a single IP datagram
There's no TCP. There's no ACK. If you tried using TCP, as your child said, you'd get an RST.
The correct reply would be an ICMP Echo Reply; an ICMP packet of type 0 (also on the wikipedia page).
I hope what I'm saying isn't news to nerds... ;)
How about a multi-touch system behind half an inch of plastic?
I wonder how much software would be entertaining to someone this age.
Best advice I can give... don't. Seriously, there's nothing special or magical about computers. Kids will pick it up quickly and there's no hurry. You don't want them to turn into the imaginationless kids that can't entertain themselves. Technology should enhance your life, not become it. If you rush this, your kid will likely have difficulty realizing that.
__________________________________
http://techdojo.org/
[IBM Model M keyboard. I bet you could vomit into those and just clean them]
My boss doesn't think they need to be cleaned ):
He might even be the one providing work to his buddies :)
I'd assume plumbers need to know a little bit about building codes; or at least know through some kind of oracle [let's call that oracle a lawyer] that their plan for laying down pipes and shit is A-OK with the gubbermint.
If his buddies charge reasonable fees, he might want to hire them.
2 is young for having a computer. Even if your child is exceptionally bright, there's a lack of motor coordination that makes using the mouse impossible. So, don't be worried if your child doesn't take to the computer immediately. My kids didn't get interested in the computer until they were 3, and not really proficient until 4.
That being said, my advice is to buy a desktop with a cheap keyboard. Laptops break too easily, regardless of the brand. The biggest threat to the computer is from spilled food. Laptops are portable, thus easier to drag over to the dinner table. Even with pretty strict rules about eating and playing games, we've still lost a dozen or so keyboards to spilled milk, mac&cheese, etc.
Check online for games. Sometimes it's nice to buy an installable game, but there are really excellent games for pretty much every kids show. Look for the production company that makes your kids favorite shows (Noggin, Playhouse Disney, etc). They usually have links to a bunch of clever flash games. If that doesn't work, search for the show itself. Pretty much every show has good games. Eventually, the kids will learn to look for games under other shows, so their supply of games can be even larger than the number of shows they watch. A bonus is that these same games will work on Linux and Macintosh.
Check out webkinz. You buy a doll which gives you access to an online game site. It's a very clever site, much more involved than the games for the TV shows. 2 is waaayyy too young for it, though. You don't need to be able to read, but you need to be able to puzzle out the menus and remember which one gets you where. But, it's worth remembering for when your child is old enough.
Finally, be prepared for your kids to *hate* your games. They're just not interesting for kids. Or too violent. It'll be years before you both want to play the same games.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but as the father of a disabled child who very much loves computer games, I have a lot of experience and opinion on this issue.
(1) Best computer we've found so far is the Samsung Q1 Ultra. Touchscreen, light, reasonably tough, good battery life. You can get an Otterbox external plastic shell that makes it reasonably smack-resistant.
(2) My son's favorite site is www.poissonrouge.com, which works very well with the touchscreen.
RR
I have a three year old. At two he liked to play with the little $20 Walmart toy laptop. He also liked to stand on it and otherwise abuse it. He also liked to play with musical instruments, and any number of other things he saw me do, because that's what kids do.
Yes, he's a mimic. That's what kids do. That's how they learn. He sees me on the computer; he then wants to be on a computer. He sees me play guitar, he wants to play guitar. What he sees me do he gets interested in, then I help him and show him how he can do the things he sees me do.
It's called parenting.
As a result, he can now at three and a half quite easily navigate the noggin website and the pbskids website. He can play the games, he can change games himself when he wants to, and when he gets bored he says he wants to do something else and then we do that. We limit the time, because he doesn't need to be on the computer all the time, but he self-limits too. By his fourth birthday he'll have his own system in his room, set up with a couple of kid friendly programs and web links. He'll also have his own bike and know how to ride it, and will hopefully have his letters down enough to read a bit, and speak a little more of a second language than he already does (since we're starting to learn Chinese together). I don't think he's a prodigy, but I'm also quite convinced that any kid can learn faster than what some of the posters here seem to think a kid can "handle". Most kids are brighter than most adults give them credit for.
My advice for the op is get an old system and set it up with a kid-oriented *nix distro, and help the kid understand what to do with it. My advice to the posters saying the op should get a life is that it looks like he has one and is trying to give his kid one too, so maybe you go a little heavier on the constructive and a little lighter on the criticism.
A coupleof years ago I noticed that my then 2 year old son kept on wanting to play those Nickalodean games on my pc, which was pretty annoying as I needed to use it for my own purposes warcraft so I rummaged around in the shed and found an old 15inch Dell laptop, I loaded linux onto it and hooked it up to the house network. The laptop sits next to the TV in the loungeroom and he can play his games to his hearts content, which is around 1hr per week lol. Early on he'd rip some of the keys from the keyboard and blame the cat, but he stopped that after a while.
What are you smoking?
I have asked somebody that knows about this ( hi mum!) with 30 years of experience in education and a Masters degree in Pedagogy
According to this most informed source, a computer is simply overkill. A child at that age does not have the coordination or understanding of what a computer (or any complex device for that matter) is, so the implications of what the device is and does will most likely go over the top of his head.
I read several posts quite patronizing (my child can do this or that, if yours can't he must be dull or dumb), commenting this with my expert at hand she commented "pushy parents, they are all the same".
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I've been sharing my N800 with my 3 yr old daughter for the past year. She likes playing with Tux Paint, Numpty Physics, Blocks and watching movies with mplayer. The N800 is easy for her to interact with because of the touch screen and stylus. She doesn't always get the games, but she's pretty good with the menus and stylus in Tux Paint. It is also small enough for her to easily hold, which is good for car and plane travel.
Two year olds can definitely learn to use and respect the computer. I have taught each child and later, my grandkids to use them. Thirteen years ago, my three year old could bring up her games in DOS, now she is designing the school sweatshirts in photoshop. My son has his own computer repair shop.
I usually start with the keyboard. The concept of one finger/key at a time is tough, but they get that pretty fast. Just putting up a word processor with big colorful lettering is a good start. There used to be an old DOS game called Dannys First Program, which was perfect for little ones. Each key launched some colorful, noisy event. I wish I could find a modern equivalent.
Once they get the idea of respecting the keyboard, they can practice the mouse. I put an 'X' with a Sharpie on the left click button. There are lots of simple (flash type) matching games online and this is a great way for little ones to learn to point and click. My three year old grandson is already a master at pbskids, noggin and cartoon network, all have lots of fun and educational games for kids.
Little ones see us use the computers all the time, and they are so curious. You might as well teach them early to respect the computer and how to use it. Those skills can help them for the rest of their lives.
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
We got my daughter a computer at 18 months. It wasn't to be a babysitter, it was because I wanted to experiment with computer interactivity early and didn't want to risk using my own PC.
For a year or so she really only had one program on it, a Fisher Price thing with a keyboard drop-over that had big buttons in various shapes and bright colors. It played peekaboo and some simple interactivity. It was fun and it was interesting watching how fast she figured out how to do the things she liked.
One benefit I didn't expect was that she was accustomed to working with electronics very early; we never got the sandwich-in-the-VCR.
It was interesting how long it took before she got the idea of the mouse. A mouse is a really unnatural instrument; you can see that every time you watch a new computer user, young or old or anywhere in between. Touchscreens are vastly more natural, it's too bad they're so damn rare and expensive.
Aaannyway I have a couple of recommendations:
1) Get something really cheap. Mostly we're a Mac household these days but Macs have a lot less children's software than PCs and the entry price is almost twice as high. Ubiquitous is a win.
2) Cover all the buttons, slots, and the screen with plexiglas. My daughter loved to push buttons and was constantly screwing up the display settings. Kids poke at the screen and LCDs are fragile. Sheets of plexiglas are really cheap; get the super-strong velcro from Radio Shack (the stuff that interlocks with itself, not the stuff with fuzz). Put a sheet over the whole display, including buttons on the front, and another over the front of the machine, especially the power switch and DVD slot.
3) Yank off the control, alt, and windows keys from the keyboard. No good comes of them.
4) Be there when the kid is using it; help them, talk to them. Not only is this good parenting but left alone kids will bash on things. Keyboards may only be $20 nowadays but you don't want to buy a lot of them.
5) Don't attach it to the net. The kid doesn't need it and if it's not attached nothing can infect the PC. I think my daughter was six or seven before she was allowed to use any websites. The problem with websites isn't what most people think: The pr0n guys are really not that ever-present, but the advertisers ... woah. They're all over kid-centric sites.
Oh, and TV for kids? I'm not a member of the "no TV ever" club; there are some very good TV shows. Problem is limiting the kids to those particular shows, and having the ability to time-shift them; the kid's schedule rarely follows PBS's. Tivo totally rocks, especially since when the show is over it stops.
(Funny story: We got a TV in the kitchen and attached it directly to the cable box. My daughter had never watched TV without Tivo. She was watching some cooking show with my wife and had to use the toilet; she kept pushing the pause button on the remote, dancing around holding her legs together, saying "It won't pause! It won't pause!" That's TV the way the networks like it, kiddo....)
Good luck, and good parenting.
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
My 4-year old benefitted enormously from having my wife's hand-me-down G3 900 Mhz iBook. It's too slow to play video (thankfully), but it runs Mac OS 10.4.11, so nearly all the fun kid websites run just fine, as does iTunes, iPhoto and the like. He was 2.5 years when we gave it to him, and I strongly suggest that you don't limit access in any way. He has an admin account, and he learns quite quickly how not to screw-up his computer. Good luck!
Hey, my son turned two in August last year. When he comes to when and I'm on my computer, I'll drop into a new screen session, fire up emacs, and make the font really big. He knows his letters, so he gets a kick out of making the letter on the keyboard come up on the screen (a zillion times) But seriously, a computer is way overkill. You mostly see the advantages of computers when you can learn to read, or atleast think on a slightly higher level - for now I think a lot of toys (e.g. a drum that changes colors when you bang on it) are more than enough computer for them. He's still having trouble moving zelda across the screen, too...
The keyboard is resistant to crumbs, PB & J fingers and drool. It will last reasonably well on the battery. There are no moving parts so the crashesshould be survivable. However, it is a little top heavy.
The builtin camera is good fo them to look at and interact with themselves.
You may need to get a mouse.
You can get them on ebay for less than $200
About a year ago (when my kid was 2.5), I set him up with a little desktop (old machine, actually, when I upgraded mine). I through Ubuntu on it and loaded it up with educational games.
He would play on it sometimes with me or my wife, but now frequently he turns it on himself and starts playing puzzle / reading games. He loves it! He's starting to read now (only very simple words, of course) and is moving on to more advanced reading games.
And yes, we read to him for at least an hour a day too. Letting a kid use a computer is not bad parenting, unless you're just trying to shut him up. And for that, a TV is much easier, cheaper, and has less potential for interactive learning. (Sheesh! There's a lot of flames on that score here today. Won't somebody remember the couch potato children?)
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
I don't know if it's still in production, but we have a Fisher Price Easy Link that's an easy-to-use web environment for toddlers. With just a mouse and a bunch of the keys, they can change websites without having to worry about about the kids getting out of their 'sandbox' or having to type in anything.
All you really need is one key for the Disney site and one for the PBS site. You can then use internal links to find all the other pages so you don't need to shell out extra cash for each and every key. I wish they'd make one for the Noggin site too.
Since they're really just ordinary websites with addresses assigned to the keys, my main complaint is that you can't add new sites that aren't associated with the keys. There are stories online about being able to edit the XML config file, but it never worked for me. I guess you could always just edit your hosts file...
or Brio/Lego's. Something emphasizing the physical world. Maybe after he's six, try an erector set or one of those hobby electronics kits if he has a real penchant for math/science/etc. A two year old does not need a computer. Maybe when he's 8 a good hp calculator. Then give him an old 8086 and have him learn to code with 64K.
I'd go with a Toshiba Tough book like this one http://www.bizrate.com/laptopcomputers/toshiba-toughbook-mdwd2-tablet-pc--pid619387597/compareprices.html Shop around I just grabbed the first link I could find. You might be able to pick up an older one on ebay on the cheap(ish) I remember back in the day when I was 3-4 playing with a Commodore Vic-20 which was pretty close to state of the art at the time. Toshiba Tough books are great, you can kick the thing down a flight of stairs and it will (probably) still work. :-)
Is he going to be watching videos like meatspin, 2g1c, and so on?
Wait. . . how old is he again?
My son is 3. I let him play games on the net. Usually on the cbc kids site. I have a user account setup on my Ubuntu for him so he can press anything he wants and I don't have to worry about my settings.
I can leave him on that site and he will navigate it all by himself, play any of the games, some coloring etc.
I don't see why you have to wait till your kid is 5 as per some of these suggestions.
They learn so quick. You sit down and show them a couple of times and they got it.
I do also have a "My first computer". Which I guess is more like a game system, but it does have a mouse and a keyboard so makes it a bit more realistic. Hooks up to the tv. Kids love it.
Hi, just to share my experience, my son has been using my desktop computer since is two, before any of the super parents around start shooting i'll say he is doing so under my supervision (and on my knees), and only for about 20mn a day (it was only a few minutes in the beginning). I'm using Debian so he is using Tuxpaint, Gcompris and Childplay mainly. But what he likes most is typing my password ! Thanks to this he is now able to write a few words on the keyboard, including is name, in both lower and upper cases, and he's playing a few of the excellent games the aforementioned educative suites offer. Since he's growing in a multilingual family we have established to do some activities in French, and some in English, and it's going fine. He is now able to use the mouse without me holding is hand, I have just reduced the acceleration factor of the cursor. Yes he is playing with "classic" toys too, he can draw with a pen and a piece of paper and so on, I see no reason to be afraid of computers with kids outside of the usual security issues (ie. electricity, small parts...). On top of my desktop he is also enjoying very much a Macbook laptop running Ubuntu, those are more children friendly in size, the keys won't come out since the keyboard is well integrated in the machine (you have to check one to understand), and he had no trouble at all using the touchpad, which I doubled with a small mouse. As long as it is done under close supervision and for a limited amount of time I can see no reason not to use this wonderful learning tool, and no two and a half isn't too early, just make sure the child really has an interest in it and not only you. Cheers.
My 22-month old has enjoyed the Easy PC system (http://www.comfyland.com/system) since he was 8 months old. The keyboard is very durable and is a simple USB connection (it looks like a standard USB keyboard to the computer, so no drivers are required). He would rather use the big keyboard that mommy and daddy use, but his keyboard is better than nothing.
The keyboard comes with one simple game (and is overpriced IMO), but other games can be purchased, making it a more cost effective system. The games are marketed in the 1-3 year range and 3-5 year range.
The downside to this system is that all of the software checks for the CD to be in the drive, which is frustrating if you want to make multiple games available (I was thinking of writing a VB program that would allow the child to choose which game to play, but that assumes no CD swapping is necessary). I'm sure I can find a way around this eventually, but the general availability of noCD patches on the internet does not currently extend to these programs.
Also, at 22-months, the (optical) mouse is a pretty light, not an input device. He notices that it can make a big initial change (turn off screen-saver), but otherwise uses the keyboard. By 4, most kids understand and can use a mouse, but 2 may be too young for most kids.
Bravo Sir, well said.
Kids should get a computer from 12 years on and no earlier. If not, they will for sure get serious brain-damage. (If they get the PC at 12 or later, they will probably only get a miserable puberty and some personality disorder, which is okay because most people have it. Don't give your kid access to firearms when it has a computer, though.)
My daughter is totally fluent in using the iphone. Only problem is that she knows how to get the thing out of airplane mode...
When my 18 month daughter waned to press the keys on my laptop as I worked I pulled out an eMate and set it up for her. Hours of fun drawing and scribbling ensued and now, some 4 years later, she's up to writing letters and email and the like. Sadly the eMate isn't that good at visiting CBBC or CeeBeeBies because there's no colour and no flash but its still working brilliantly.
There are plenty of eMates on eBay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=emate&category0=
Jobs really screwed up when he pulled the Newton programme.
I say cheap because they should be, although for some reason the mother-in-law bought my son when he was 3 a computer that was more powerful than my gaming beast in every area except graphics (and still quite decent at that).
Both son and daughter were doing the "which animals make noises" type games at 2 or earlier, and son now at 4 is playing Spore quite happliy (and creating some of the strangest creatures you can imagine... out of H.P. Lovecraft!, and sending them into the water until the monster comes up), Quake 3 (jumping from pillar to pillar to get the mega health, and swiming down until out of air), Sims 2 (making the Sim swim until he drowns), and just loaded for him GTA3-SA (his first idea... you got it, jumping the guy into the river and swiming down until he drowns).
Now this may give you the impression that my son is a deranged manic with a fetish for drowning things... you would be wrong, that would be my daughter. My son just loves swimming and cant seem to get the concept that the characters can run out of air/energy.
Still, this is quite impressive for a 4 year old and my daughter is only 2.5 and can do some good stuff as well.
So, back to the point of it all, why restrict your kid to a small fragile netbook? Give them the full desktop experience, im sure they will love you for it.
Only caveat here - be prepared to buy mice and keyboards (another reason for not getting a laptop/netbook). My son is on his 4th mouse due to extreme use and two keyboards have died due to excessive spillage of juices.
I guess I'll put the ski mask away. I totally read the subject as you were giving out computers in exchange for children.
OLPCs are made to take a lot of abuse. There aren't many openings for kids to pour fluids or sand in. The solid state disk holds up well for obvious reasons. The dual mode display even works in bright sunlight. .xinitrc file to bring it up instead of the "sugar" interface for kids. This is all well documented on the olpc wiki site, so don't responds with any whining!
If you want to use it as a "real" laptop, just add the xfce desktop package and add a
My kids (14,8,4) use this all the time and love it. The four year old can type words and have the computer say them. It is a big help in teaching him reading. All kids are different and your two year old may or may not enjoy the laptop now, but will grow into it.
also tux typing (?) and maths from tux for kids.
We have some (Russian) bought programs and lots of Movies/DVDs - he has not gone on the internet/youtube/flash programs yet. (He is 2 years 2 months - flashcards on childsplay was the first thing he used at 20 months).
I guess putting our 9 year old pc on the ground our maybe leave a 20 year Amiga out on the ground for him to destroy is next.
Be Free: Free Software Tuition
I built my 4 year old daughter and 2 1/2 year old son a desktop PC with the VIA artigo kit and an LCD monitor, and installed Ubuntu on it. I run the browser through the Dan's Guardian proxy server. The computer is set up in our den, where my wife and I are able to both interact with the kids, and supervise their usage. We limit them to pbskids.org, and nickjr.com. I added some code to the firefox start script that checks for a flag file /tmp/notrightnow, and plays an ogg file of me saying 'not right now kids, maybe later' before exiting, and am working on crontabs to schedule usage times. I think you'd find that a laptop is perhaps too delicate for little hands, and although the little artigo PC is small, it is not portable, so the kids have to stay where they can be supervised. One drawback is that the Nick Jr. website has flash video clips from their TV shows. When the kids get into the clips, we nudge them back to the games. Our intent is to not have the computer turn into another passive video viewing outlet. One other benefit is that I have the kid's computer configured into a print queue on one of my servers. My daughter prints out coloring pages that the different sites offer.
Before we bought the computer for the kids, we gave them the Leap Frog ClickStart, which teaches basic keyboard and mousing skills, as well as spelling, letter, and number recognition. It may be a good starting point for your 2 year-old, but of course your mileage may vary.
I did intentionally start the kids out on a Linux box, and for several reasons. It does a much better job with lower-powered hardware, it is less prone to malware, and it also is cheaper than a windows license.
My son (who just turned 3) has been playing the DS for about 6 or 8 months now. There's some teaching involved on how to handle the hardware - don't poke the screen, don't open the hinge 180 degrees, don't touch the top screen with the stylus - but I don't worry anymore when he plays with it.
Here are some kid-appropriate games he plays:
- Crayola Treasure Adventures. Coloring games, join-the-numbers and great music. 4/5
- Smart Boys Gameroom. Puzzles, music games, counting games. Probably the most educational. 5/5
- Clubhouse Games. 42 old-school games - he plays bowling, shake the bottle, darts, hangman (called balloons) and many others. 4/5
- Meteos. Loses interest in it after a while. 2/5
I also tried out a number of other games that he may have been interested in. There was a Diego title that seemed too advanced for him, and I tried out the DS Interactive Storybook series but was not impressed by it (In the story of the 3 little pigs, the wolf or the pig call each other "idiot". I don't need my 3 year old learning insults.)
There are some very high quality Children's books available on DVD that are not quite what you would call a game and not just a video. My daughter and I enjoyed them very much at the age of your child; we used our desktop. While the OP sounds like he wants something that could be used unsupervised, these books probably aren't going to work out well to start at that age. However, they a great opportunity to spend time together that you will remember fondly years from now. One manufacturer is Broderbund; you can find them on Amazon searching for "living books."
My kid was 4 when I bought EEPC and she liked it a lot. She still likes Tuxpaint.
Buy books, read them to him. This will be way better than having him much with an ADD inducing appliance.
As everyone else here seems to think I also consider a 2 year old as ;) ) and he
too young. I bought EeePc to my 4 year old son which is almost a
prodigy (at least compared to his mates at kindergarden
plays with some of the games and mostly wants to go to some childrens
sites to play flashgames. He knows how the get to those sites because
they are in the bookmarks and he almost reads (and knows the
favicons).
His little brother is two and doesn't know how to use the machine
independently. At the moment all he does is watch 'Cars' -trailer
or some movie I've put in. He doesn't USE the machine. For him it's a
little television.
I gave my 2 year old an old IMac. I watch her while working, but she's already proficient with a mouse, and is able to click on the programs she wants to use. Mostly Tux paint. She knows what templates she wants, loads them and knows what colors to work with. In addition to that, her favorite Youtube videos are search able, and then she knows what icons to click on for that. It's more than just being interested in lights and sound, she's into the computer. But do not allow unfettered access as it's not a replacement for time with you, and the keys could be a choking hazard. Depending on what you have access to, you could always remove the keyboard, and use a wireless one.
I bought myself a chumby when my son was 2 years old, which he loved. Main interface is the touchscreen, from which he can browse & play kids flash widgets which I've found on the net. Tought him a lot, much easier than mouse or touchpad at that age. I did have to teach him to stop hitting my laptop screen afterwards.
What a stupid question.
Young' kids brains are still forming and very malleable until they're at least 7 or 8. Do you really want to expose such a young brain to a lot of computer use? I think that's almost child abuse.
I don't say ban kids from using computers. But wait until they're 5 or 6 at least, for crying out loud.
After my son (also 2 Years old) showed a lot of interest in one of my laptops I got him an EEE 701. He can't type anything that makes sense yet, because of course he can't read or write. But he can use the track pad, and enjoys mimicking his Dad - his first Word document (Open Office really) and first drawing done on my PDA using a stylus will be kept with the other treasured keepsakes of his childhood. I wanted him to be a comfortable around computers and other tools. He has safe play hammers, spanners etc., pretend steering wheel, and I see the EEE in a similar vein (I don't yet allow him to use it when plugged into the mains, and it is a toy I currently only let him play with when supervised). One responder considered the keys on a laptop to be a choking hazard, and of course each parent or guardian must assess the risk for themselves, but so far my son has shown no interest in ripping the keys off.
In terms of the actual question asked:
Yes - the EEE is pretty sturdy and stood up really well to being accidentally dropped. It also cleaned up nicely when he vomited over the keyboard.
I wouldn't worry about the software yet, as like other people have mentioned, he probably won't really understand much of what is going just yet. Though that being said, with some assistance he has enjoyed Video conferencing with his Gran.
I wonder how many of the people here suggesting that you need to spend more time with the kid have actually raised children themselves. That is: not having a significant other assigned to the children nearly full time. Children do need to learn to entertain themselves, and preferably not with television.
I also have a 2 year old that uses my computer. He can control avatars (both platform games and 3d) with mouse and cursor buttons and he can type a few words (and spell out anything he sees). He's not a child prodigy; I taught him that in the lots of time I spend with him.
He can unfortunately also start it up and shut it down, switch between applications, delete and move files, etc. And he uses my computer while I am not watching. Most important requirement for software for him is that it locks down the keyboard. And I need to remember to put it in sleep mode if I walk away for a moment.
He has never damaged anything physical, so I don't see a need for ruggedness sofar.
They really don't care at the age of 2. At about 5 years of age they can start having some real fun with PBSkids.org. I would suggest that you DON'T get a laptop. Kids like the big screen, and their fine motor skills like big buttons and big mouse movements. In a perfect world, get an iMAC and put tux paint, konegregate.com puzzle games, and some scrolling games on it. Show them how to use textedit and the Start Speaking Text. 5 -7 years of age seems to be when kids really start having fun with them, and not just random pounding. pbskids.org works at about 4. Laptops can be dropped and spilled on.
These are just my observations of what my kid has liked and done.
The flops I've had include "Windows" and Lego mindstorms. He can build things, he just can't put together something by himself that will work. He loves watching the things I put together, but at this age (early 7) they are still easily overwhelmed by blank slates.
Interested In EletrÃnical Toys? him or you?
let him play football, basketball or samething like that or we have one mor fat child in the world!
IMHO, most laptops are too fragile or dangerous for kids (small parts, heavy weight) and too expensive for parents. And they are not ergonomic - small keys and touchpads are not suitable for children, regular mice / keyboards are better. Then my son was about 2 years old, I just installed for him an old computer (PIII 800MHz) with Edubuntu. Edubuntu comes with excellent GCompris education suite, which also contains activities suitable for 2-3 year old children. Make sure to pick a small enough mouse, and simple keyboard (without all small multimedia keys, in other words, old one).
I just go and look for an old CRT touchscreen 19" size for $20.00 put it in my computer (ON A SECOND VIDEO CARD) and make a quick simple VB program wich load videos and music from my computer, some EASY games, some TEACH apps and of course YOU TUBE videos of sesame street, pocoyo, TMNT, Mickey Mouse House, and some others of the intrest of my kids. :)
The internet browser option is under parent code because i want to see what is browsing my kid but he sometimes want to see some weird things i don't have in my HD. (Try searching youtube for "cangrejo cocotero").
Both kids (3.5 and 1.5 years) are happy (when not fighting) and i can use my keyboard to do my work
(}{ >
I've got an old P3 600 with EduBuntu on it. My 5-yr-old LOVES TuxPaint, Compiz (I THINK that's what comes with it) and plays other approved flash games on the web (Bob the Builder, etc.).
My 2-yr-old uses the same PC and has one of those Fisher Price toy keyboards that overlays the main keyboard, and makes shapes, etc. Cost like $25, which is alot, but a LOT less than a UMPC. The PC-only software that comes with it runs great under VirtualBox. Obviously it requires some setup from me beforehand, but it does the job.
A UMPC solely for a 2-yr-old is a BAD idea on a number of levels. If the parent wants one, they should get one, but don't use the kid as an excuse to do so!
We went through a similar thinking and I'm very very glad we did two things.
First, we got our 1 year olds a broken standalone keyboard not connected to anything. It taught some basic keystroke concepts and gave us a way to tell them to be careful with their computer, as well as keep them engaged in imitative play while we were typing away.
And they could beat the crap out of it without worry.
Second, at 2 years we got a Clickstart (http://www.leapfrog.com/en/shop/special_offers/clickstart_offer.html). This thing is nearly indestructible, teaches basic mouse skills, teaches color and letter recognition, and is highly interactive. There are also commercial disc 'plugins' for it such as Dora, Nemo, etc. The kids absolutely love 'their computer'.
It's not a laptop, but it has an IR transmitter so it's portable in a limited sense. It's also very cheap (well under US100) and requires RCA A/V out.
Any real laptop would be destroyed by now--and our kids are fairly gentle with gadgets...but lets just say...soup happens.
And throwup.
And then we let the kids use the Mac Books to play flash games on PBSKids, NickJR, and Starfall.
At that age I was playing KinderComp on my dad's Commodore 64. I think you should look in to something similar.
Some NES/Famicom clones, or TV computers, are very affordable educational computers, designed for kids in developing countries:
http://research.playpower.org/tiki-index.php?page=Playpower+Platform [playpower.org]
I have 2 Grand-Nephews aged 4 and 6. Both have had their own " laptops" for a year. They have VTech learning laptops. They play with them more than anything else other than maybe their VSmile game. So to the naysayers I would say Unless you know the OP and their child personally S2. To the OP check out the VTech laptop . they run about 40.00 here, and as I recall have extra "cards" available as the child ages. A word of caution though. You may be creating a monster. About 15 months ago I was working on one of my sisters computers. While waiting for it to run this or download that I was playing Majoong on the other one, Actually it was the one that I had installed edubuntu on for the boys (she is raising her Grandsons). The boys came in and were watching. The conversation ran "What cha doing Uncle?" working on Nana's computer. "Whats that?" Majoong. " Can we play?" I dont know its kinda hard. (insert BIG blue eyes and pouty stuckout lip) PLEASE. OK let me finish this game. So both took their turns helping me play majoong. AND they were pretty good at it. Now everytime we see them or when Papa is on the computer they ask, " Can we play Majoong?
I have a girl 10 and a boy 8. They both started out, at 18 months or so, sitting on my lap playing things like the Fisher-Price games for toddlers. No particular skill with mouse or keyboard required.
They gradually moved on to the Reader Rabbit and Jumpstart educational titles, KidPix (huge for years, mostly because of the music and text-to-speech), and the Humongous adventures (my personal favorites). Now, a lot of their computer time is spent on-line (we do some in-house content filtering), youtube, webkinz, highlightskids.
For hardware, I always went for old and cheap-to-free windows boxes, and I think that was a good way to go: the keyboard gets full of cracker crumbs and apple juice, cds get scratched, and any non-optical mouse will get gummed up in a hurry. The best cd based games ran on old pentiums just fine anyway, and flash based games and videos seem to do ok on not much more.
They are both social, physically active, and good students.
Go with the EeePC. It would be perfect for a child do learn on. It is very durable in the case it is dropped and the tiny keyboard would probably be perfect size for those little fingers. I bought one for my son and it has greatly increased his interest for computers without reformatting mine.
Stephen Hunter Email: stephen@discoveryfirm.com Web: www.discoverysound.com/en DISCOVERY FIRM 6-16 Maruyama-Nishimachi
do you have a link for Childplay?
I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter who loves to play with computers, remotes, etc. We tried letting her play with an old laptop when she was younger and it took her about 10 minutes to begin pulling the keys off the keyboard, which immediately became a choking hazard.
I gave my wife a dell laptop that has a stylus pen and a touch screen. When she hasn't been using it, my two year old has been for a few months. Her favorite site is starfall.com. She does the alphabet games on there and even has graduated to some of the spelling games.
She's not using the keyboard or the mouse, but it was surprising how quickly she learned how to click, drag and move items on the screen using the pen.
I can say from experience. My daughter got her EEE for Christmas last year, she was 2-years-7-months. She hasn't broken it, and she very quickly developed the skills she needed to operate it effectively. Teaching her was a great excuse to spend time together. It was actually good for me too -- it's instructive to have to unlearn everything to the point where you can explain to a child that young. Now, a year later, she turns it on, waits for the red X to disappear indicating that wireless is up, starts up the browser, and then uses the address drop-down to find the site she wants to go to (she's memorized the shape of the address for each one). She goes to CBC kids, PBS kids, TotLOL, etc. She also loves Tuxpaint.
Don't spend any decent amount of money on the hardware. If you have spare machines lying around, even an old PII laptop, use it. It's going to get banged on and slobbered on. IMO, the best hardware to use is not a laptop, because they're just not sturdy enough. Use a desktop and an old solid keyboard, and plan on replacing and keyboard a few times. Same with the mouse, but don't plan on the kid using the mouse much at first.
I was in the same place that you are, with my youngest. He had a PC keyboard from 1 year old onward. At age 2 he actually got a computer attached to it, because in truth, he was just as happy banging on a keyboard attached to nothing for a while. I used some old clunker I had in my garage, threw Windows XP on it, and loaded some baby games (plenty of them available as freeware for whatever OS you have). I set his computer up next to mine because most of the time, he just wanted to do what I was doing. At the time I didn't have a spare (or any) laptop, but even so I would not have used a laptop, much less a brand new one -- it would be wasted on one so young and probably broken to boot.
I agree with you, the 'Learning Laptops' are really limited. However since they are plastic, portable and cheap, and much less complex to operate, they can be fun for the little tyke too. Consider getting both a plastic box that's flashy and beepy as well as a real PC.
Your question was mostly about hardware so I won't go into detail about what software to put on, but there are a ton of educational games and activity software, some free, some not. Keep in mind that the best toys for children are often the simplest -- let your software be the equivalent of the cardboard box that came with the new fridge. Use MS Paint (or equivalent) for hours of entertainment (and then print it and put it on the fridge!). There was this great little freeware program I had that simply did random fireworks displays when any key was pressed. He loved it. One of the other things he loved best was a Powerpoint that I put together that simply had various images of butterflies on it (he loved butterflies). He would watch it for hours while playing!
Your kid may or may not be a prodigy, it doesn't matter, exposure to technology will simply further encourage him if he that tendency, or bore him if not. It may be a passing phase so don't invest too much into it at first. My kid has had his own computer since age 2 and he has gradually developed more affinity for it. He's learned to navigate the menus (he's used both Windows and Linux and is comfortable in either) and long ago learned to open his own programs, save files, etc. He's now 7 and surfing the net regularly (learning to spell really was a breakthrough with computer usage!), of course with parental supervision. (His PC is still next to mine and in the family room -- in fact the home rule is any kid's computer, desktop or laptop, has to be in a public place to be online. Yes I have teenagers too and yes, their activity is monitored infrequently, communication happens frequently, and nothing is blocked.)
The interesting thing is that he's to this day much more interested in legos, creating his own superhero costumes, scissors and glue and cardboard than with the computer.
i would suggest a 'toughbook'
look into buy 1 get 1 on Amazon. Good for kids here and in other countries and inexpensive