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try using a nitrous cracker, they make them out of aluminum: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/nitrous/images/arc hive/nitrous_cracker4.jpg

...and I was so sure you were talking about Methylenedioxyamphetamine.

You smoke the dried venom of the Bufo Alvarius (I'm not sure of the marinus species) toad which contains 5-meo-dmt. the t in dmt is tryptamine which is the backbone for a shitload of psychedelics, phenethylamine being the other one (not including feel good drugs and dissociatives).

http://www.erowid.org/animals/toads/toads.shtml

These are related to Bufo Alvarius aka The Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert.

But (unfortunately), the venom of Bufo Marinus does not seem to contain the strong hallucinogenic compound found in Bufo Alvarius (5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine aka 5-MeO-DMT).

While some have claimed that bufotenine does have a psychoactive effect, it is disputed, and I wouldn't try it. It definitely does have a cardiovascular effect, which can be dangerous.

See TOAD VENOM...THEIR TOXICITY & PSYCHOACTIVE EFFECTS.

So, I don't think I will go toad hunting to Australia. Good old psylocibin or LSD seem much safer...

There are no toads that you can lick to get high -- it's the venom that contains 5-MeO-DMT, an analogue of DMT. DMT is one of the most powerful psychedlic substances in existence, endogenous to the human brain and synthesized in the pineal gland. It's a distinct possible that DMT release is responsible for such crazy, life-altering near-death experiences reported by people who have nearly died.

5-MeO-DMT is not as visual as DMT, but is still an extremely powerful trip. Check out Erowid. Venom for smoking is best extracted from Bufo alvarius though, found largely in the southwestern United States. While the Australian toads are part of the bufo genus, they are not quite the correct species from which to extract the venom (a turkey baster in the mouth is the way to go).

The toxic mixture present in Bufo cane toads contains up to 15% 5-MeO-DMT, similar to one of the most powerful hallucinogenic substances known to man, DMT (endogenous to the humain brain). Would be psychedelic experimenters in Australia now have a vast source of smokable material extractable from the toad saliva with a pipette or turkey baster.

The high from the 5-methoxy version of DMT is not nearly as visual, but it's an incredible mindfuck. Check out Erowid for details.

This may cause hell for the environment there, but at least the Australians can get high.

So Toxoplasma triggers the production of LSD in the host organism's brain, and this is believed to be a major cause of schizophrenia in humans? Are there any other sources that support this claim? LSD is somewhat difficult to test for in humans, and even then the link between schizophrenia and LSD is a rather contentious subject in the medical community. The article itself also seems to question the verity of this hypothesis:

"A word of caution: our authors' impressive theoretical edifice is built on some pretty thin evidence. It's simplistic to say T. gondii works by triggering the production of LSD--among other problems with the idea, acid mainly gives rise to visual hallucinations, whereas the delusions of schizophrenics are primarily auditory (e.g., hearing voices)."

As you can probably guess, I am a big fan of acid and psychedelics in general. I've taken many psychedelic drugs, including but not limited to: Cannabis, LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms, Mescaline, MDMA, AMT, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-B, 2C-T-7, 5MeO-AMT, 5MeO-DiPT, Ketamine, DXM, LSA, Salvia, and many others. I've taken traditional psychedelics (Tryptamines and Phenethylamines such as LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, MDMA, 2C-*, 5MeO-*, etc.), dissociatives (PCP, DXM, Ketamine, Nitrous, Salvia, etc.), and even deliriants (Dramamine, Datura, Amanita Muscaria, Bella Donna, etc.) on occasion, so I'm pretty well-versed in the various categories of psychedelic drugs and their effects.

Out of the 3 main categories of psychedelic drugs, I would say that the most dangerous is probably the deliriants, typically anticholinergenic deliriants. Strong dissociatives such as PCP may induce prolonged psychotic states, possibly even causing long-term brain-damage with chronic exposure, but they are unlikely to cause full-blown hallucinations as with anticholinergenic drugs. Conventional psychedelics such as LSD, pot, Mushrooms, Mescaline, etc. are even less likely to induce psychotic/delusional episodes compared to strong dissociatives like PCP. Typically, people on traditional psychedelics such as acid may see OEVs(opened eye visuals) or CEVs(closed eye visuals) but they are not hallucinations in the strict sense. They are more accurately described as perceptual illusions, such as moving patterns, altered spatial perception, synesthesia, etc. Only deleriants cause full-blown hallucinations that one can't distinguish from reality. This is why there is a very high incidence of "bad trips" on deliriants, many of which resulting in ER visits or stays in the psychiatric ward.

While I don't doubt that a bad trip on acid can be the springboard for schizophrenia, these are usually cases where the individual is already predisposed towards mental illness, and the acid simply triggers it by inducing a traumatic experience. Most people, however, walk away from their bad trips relatively unscathed. Some naive users may continue to be haunted afterwards by embarassing things they did while they were tripping, but few suffer any long-term psychological effects from their bad trips.

I have simply known too many people who have done acid or similar hallucinogens and have never exhibited any psychotic behavior to believe that LSD can cause schizophrenia. In fact, I don't think that LSD plays much of a role in the etiology of schizophrenia or any other mental illness. It's more likely that most people who develop schizophrenia after taking LSD would have still developed the mental disorder eventually even if they hadn't taken any drugs.

I've only met 3 individuals whom I've witnessed really bizarre behavior from after they took psychedelic drugs. One appeared to experience acute psychotic episodes after smoking pot or drinking alcohol, but this seemed to be due to his being socially maladjusted more than anything. The second individual behaved very strangely after consuming mushrooms on 2 different occassions, but otherwise he was perfectly normal even when he smoked weed or

Where did you find this (very wrong) information?

Erowid's DXM FAQ (sorry no direct link)

You might want to email the maintainer and let him know... it's not uncommon for FAQs on erowid and other similar sites (like the third plateau) to be incorrect in some details... especially details of the DEA-is-the-big-bad-meanie-curtailing-our-freedoms- and-ruining-consumer-products variety.

Here ya go. The energy drink chart even normalizes them to their caffiene content based on 12 oz. of liquid (though note that coffee and tea are not).

MDMA (better known as "ecstacy"), is currently being studied for exactly this purpose:

http://www.maps.org/mdma/
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/news/maps_mdmaprot ocol_approved.htm
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_research 4.shtml

So it looks like the drugs have actually won the "War on Drugs"...:)

Yeah, a sleep clinic would be a very good idea. Go to one. Spend a few nights there. See what they can find or tell you. They know a lot about abnormal sleep patterns than I do.

Being really tired or groggy for fifteen minutes or even forty-five minutes after waking is normal, and will happen even if you wake up in the middle of REM or stage two sleep. Being tired for several hours (but NOT groggy--there's a difference) in the morning after waking from REM or stage two is also pretty common, though not as universal as the above. Being groggy and unable to think straight for several hours suggests that you woke up during SWS.

From what you said, it sounds like you're having a more extreme version of the problem described in sentence two of the previous paragraph. One of my housemates has pretty much the same problem--he never really feels awake and alert until about 6:00pm every day, and can rarely stay awake during even the most interesting classes. His family has a lot of atypical narcolepsy-like sleep disturbances. It sounds like you may have something similar. Of course, you might also have sleep apnea or something simple like that, too--you'll have to find out.

In the short term, you can try playing around with your alarm clock settings. Try to start going to bed at exactly the same time every night, but change your alarm clock time by ten minutes or so each night, and see if you can find a time that works better for you. Paradoxical as it might seem, you may have to sleep less every night in order to feel better. Personally, I think that this won't fix your problem, but it's definitely something you should try.

It might come to drugs for you. Don't be afraid of them; some of the new anti-narcoleptics are quite effective and come with very few side effects. I recommend that you check out modafinil (brand name, Provigil): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil http://www.modafinil.com/ http://www.erowid.org/smarts/modafinil/. Go to a sleep clinic, ask them about modafinil, and have them watch you. If they can't find an easier or better solution, modafinil or something like it may be able to lessen your symptoms dramatically.

Nothing in the above is intended to diagnose any condition, or recommend any treatment for any condition, blah blah blah.

...and quite literally! Olney's Lesions anyone?

[...] will dramatically increase your risk of having an accident, as surely as driving while drunk, tired or stoned.

1. People high on marijuana generally have a good awareness of the extent of their impairment, and take measures to compensate (as opposed to alcohol use -- alcohol impairs higher-level cognitive processes, resulting in those drunk people who are often convinced they're perfectly in control).
2. Marijuana apparently makes driving *seem* more dangerous than it is, for instance by making drivers feel like they are going faster than they are. So, people high on marijuana typically reduce their speed even farther than they believe they have.

People are commenting about "ungodly amounts of caffeine," but believe it or not, Coke doesn't contain all that much: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_ info1.shtml

In terms of caffeine content, a cup of coffee is equivalent to 3 or 4 cokes.

Two cups of coffee really isn't all that much, so... this drink should be just fine in the caffeine department.

For some people, caffeine affords better concentration. People with ADD and similar disorders generally have better attention when given stimulants such as Ritalin, although many stimulants seem to increase concentration, including nicotine.

Erowid has a fairly extensive writeup on caffeine, as they do with just about any psychoactive substance. Their general stance is usually pro-use, but they seem to be careful about listing the warnings and side effects, as well as tips for breaking addictions, handling withdrawal and dealing with overdoses.

Erowid also has some good writeups on civil freedoms and laws which many slashdotters would find interesting. Although much of the discussion applies to drug use and possesion, their views on the first and fourth amendmants make interesting reading and are a good start for actual reasearch on civil rights.

For some people, caffeine affords better concentration. People with ADD and similar disorders generally have better attention when given stimulants such as Ritalin, although many stimulants seem to increase concentration, including nicotine.

Erowid has a fairly extensive writeup on caffeine, as they do with just about any psychoactive substance. Their general stance is usually pro-use, but they seem to be careful about listing the warnings and side effects, as well as tips for breaking addictions, handling withdrawal and dealing with overdoses.

Erowid also has some good writeups on civil freedoms and laws which many slashdotters would find interesting. Although much of the discussion applies to drug use and possesion, their views on the first and fourth amendmants make interesting reading and are a good start for actual reasearch on civil rights.

For some people, caffeine affords better concentration. People with ADD and similar disorders generally have better attention when given stimulants such as Ritalin, although many stimulants seem to increase concentration, including nicotine.

Erowid has a fairly extensive writeup on caffeine, as they do with just about any psychoactive substance. Their general stance is usually pro-use, but they seem to be careful about listing the warnings and side effects, as well as tips for breaking addictions, handling withdrawal and dealing with overdoses.

Erowid also has some good writeups on civil freedoms and laws which many slashdotters would find interesting. Although much of the discussion applies to drug use and possesion, their views on the first and fourth amendmants make interesting reading and are a good start for actual reasearch on civil rights.

Not many even know about jury nullification, but some judges and prosecutors try to weed those who believe in nullification from juries. It's not uncommon for jurors to be told to judge the case on the facts and not the law. It's such a shame when Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams and other Founding Fathers of the USA believed in it so much.

In 1789 TJ said "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." John Adams goes "It is not only the juror's right, but his duty to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgement and conscience, though in direct opposition to the instruction of the court." And Jame Madison's quote is "It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their choice, if the laws are so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they... undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what it will be tomorrow".

A good reference is the American Jury Institute and Fully Informed Jury Association (AJI/FIJA)

Some states get it right:

In the trial of all criminal cases, the Jury shall be the Judges of Law, as well as of fact (Maryland)

In all criminal cases whatever, the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts. (Indiana)

In all criminal cases whatever, the jury shall have the right to determine the law (Oregon)

the jury shall be judges of the law and the facts (Georgia)

Chances of the federal government willingly accepting the concept that the lowly pee-ons of the citizenry are smart enough to spot a bad law when they see it? None to rolling of the floor laughing. And even in states where the juries have the right to judge the law the juries are often kept in the dark regarding the true nature of their position.

Other related takes can be found here and here.

Although you don't mention it, the first link shows only a minor 4.1 pt decrease and only for heavy current users. Moderate and former users showed an increase greater than non-users - 5.8 and 3.5 vs 2.6 pts, respectively.

Inhaling smoke of any kind is, of course, not good for your lungs. There are other admittedly less popular means of administration.

It does appear that marijuana may cause immune system depression, but the extent and ways in which it does so is still being researched. This article explores the counter-viewpoints. Another study has shown a decrease in tumor resistance with injected THC in rats, but I'm not sure of the doses. It should be noted as well that in some people, like MS patients, a supressed immune system can be a good thing.

Although psychotic symptoms can be produced by Cannabis consumption, it's certainly not typical. Just as some people have severe reactions to peanuts, some may have psychotic reactions to Cannabis. However, due mainly to heavy restrictions on studies, we still don't know much about endocannabinoids' role in the nervous system and the actions of various cannabinoids. This study suggests that endocannabinoids may actually prevent psychosis; since smoking Cannabis would cause stimulation of endocannabinoid receptors, cannabinoids may be useful in preventing psychosis. Or, it might further reduce your body's production of endocannabinoids and lead to greater psychotic effects when you quit smoking. Or something else, it's hard to say at this point. Research is still being done, however, and I certainly wouldn't suggest getting high to get rid of psychotic symptoms - in fact, I would actively advise against it.

I can't read your memory and learning study, so I can't really comment on it. Cannabinoids certainly have been shown to impair memory and learning in various degrees under different circumstances, but their role - believed to be effected in the hippocampus - may, as this article (the one the post is on) may have positive effects as well.

Conclusion: Cannabis is not a panacea. It should come as no surprise to anyone that there are both good and bad sides to Cannabis - as with all medicine, as with everything. It's absurd to pretend that there are no negative effects, but it's also absurd to pretend like we have all the answers. We have to keep researching, and we have to make sure the government allows needed research. That being said, overall, cannabis has relatively few and insubstantial side effects compared to other drugs, and it's ridiculous beyond comprehension that it's a Class I substance.

What a surprise to click on Slashdot and see news about cannabinoids - I feel like I'm reading my own site ...

I operate CANNABIS.COM ... shortcut url http://cann.com/

Some informative pages to check out:

Lots of cannabis Research information *with sources listed*
http://www.cannabis.com/research/

TR-446 Toxicology and Carcinogenesis Studies of 1-Trans-Delta9-Tetrahydrocannabinol (CAS No. 1972-08-3) in F344 Rats and B6C3F1 Mice (Gavage Studies)
http://www.cannabis.com/research/tr446study.shtml
(mirror of the study published by the U.S. National Toxicity Program)

Cannabis News
http://www.cannabisnews.com/

And finally, Erowid's Cannabis Vault...
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.sht ml

Ron Bennett

true happiness is only attained through enlightenment, however you want to personally describe that. psychdelic drugs, and i include cannabis in this, are the perfect tool to disassociate yourself from societies ideals and worries, and let you stand back and see things from a different perspective. i would almost use the analogy of seeing the world from a new dimension, it is that profound.

check out http://www.erowid.org/ for more info.

Myself, I like a Fully Informed Jury and Jury Nullification.

OP was thinking of crystal meth not crack (which is trivially made from powdered cocaine I hear).

The best place for an explanation is probably under here. It's not that simple, but fairly. It's also dangerous. I understand that (pseudo)ephedrine as the most easily controlled precursor is very closely watched these days in the US.

Regardless of what they might spew in DARE classes...

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings4. shtml
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_229.html
http://www.levity.com/aciddreams/samples/chromosom e.html
http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/chromosomes.htm

No, that's a precursor to LSD called LSA. Morning glory seeds contain this precursor as well. Look it up at http://www.erowid.org/ - the best drug information resource online.

Apparently, it's damn near impossible to make LSD properly because of all the equipment required.

Speaking as someone who has done quite a bit of LSD including a few trips which, assuming the coating on the blotter was distributed evenly across the tabs (rarely the case), were somewhere between 1500-2000 mics I would say that it most definitely CAN be a life altering experience. Part of the problem being that many people use it for escapism, which often doesn't lead to the life altering experience in the same manner you are describing. At least they do at first, it's hard not to fall into using it as a life changing experience if it's used more than a few times, in my experience anyway. As I have aged and reflected upon my times on LSD when I was younger, I have come to realize that though they were rough at the time, my bad trips were ultimately my best trips as I tended to learn far more about myself during a "bad" trip than I did during my normal party oriented/social setting trips.

One thing to note, is that from a psychological standpoint large doses of LSD could be bad, from a physical standpoint, it's one of the more harmless substances you can injest in terms of effective dose vs. LD50 (~12,000 mics IIRC). The LD50 of LSD is so high that I am not sure how possible it would be to even injest that much on tabs (currently the most common dosage method, at least where I live. Liquid can be very hard to come by) not due to the volume that would need to be consumed, but because when a 1000+ mic trip kicks in it's hard to do ANYTHING, much less keep consuming more. Around 1000mics is where reality starts to fade out and people claim they saw God, basically.

Having also used DMT as well and looking back on the experience, LSD doesn't really feel as though it's in the same ballpark. LSD is generally a nice calm ride up to a plateu for a while, and then a nice ride back down. DMT and Ketamine are both a rocket straight up and out of the atmosphere. LSD provides time to adjust, DMT and Ketamine both feel as though they set in instantaniously.

At the time I started trying some hallucinogenic compounds I was already meditating on a daily basis, and wanted to see if I could get to the same places in my mind using other sorts of tools. I never really found that I could, the quality of the experiences was different, but not in a bad way. The real problem with hallucinogenic drugs tend to occur when A) Someone already has some issues, and B) when someone can't let go and just flow with the experience rather than trying to fight against the experience.

You are correct though, basically if set and setting are proper, an LSD trip does tend to fill you with a sense of wonderment at everything around you. It doesnt make people non-violent, but because everything gets so strange and seems so new, that all you can do is watch, listen, and maybe learn from it. For example, LSD causes the pupils to dilate and everything generally takes on a strange glow, colors get brighter, and everything seems more vibrant than normal. The effect, generally, is that everything feels more "real", though it also tends to feel unnatural and somewhat mechanical as a result of the amphetamine edge that LSD has. LSD also generally has an edge to it, as I mentioned, and often people make the mistaken assumption that this is due to strichnine on the blotter, which isn't the case. If you look at the molecular structure of LSD, it basically attaches to one of the same neuroreceptors as methamphetamine. It's a natural effect of the drug itself (which comes in handy at "Raves" because it feels like an infinite supply of energy).

For information Erowid Vault has some. I can't say that it's unbiased, but there are some good nuggets of information there. Enjoy.

"I feel that we need to individually work on putting good things on [the web], finding ways to protect ourselves from accidentally finding the bad stuff" And who is to decide good vs. bad? Parents should supervise/restrict their children's browsing habits, but I for one value sites such as http://www.erowid.org/ which is a site that contains information about drugs... There are plenty of "bad" websites out there that are labeled as "bad" because they offend people who are closed-minded...

According to the Supreme Court, the 4th Amendment has an implicit privacy clause built in.

See Kyllo vs. US for more information.

It remains to be seen how the current wave of methadone addiction sweeping the Midwest will affect future crime rate.

Methadone addiction? Man, you've got to do more drugs. Are you sure you're not talking about methamphetamine (aka Meth; Speed; Crystal; Glass; Crank; Tweak; Yaba) addiction?

Specialists are saying that we'll miss the good old days of crack heads.

Let's try to stay with reality here. If you're nostalgic about the 80s cocaine/crack epidemics and widespread usage, what you're really saying is that you miss the CIA importing huge amounts of coke into the US. There have been many journalists who have documented the CIA's importation of drugs, enough so that the issue simply is no longer in doubt. You've never heard of the Iran-Contra scandal and the fact that people in the US using coke/crack helped to fund death squads and Contras in Latin America, all with the help of our "glorious" CIA?

H20 is staple, so it won't react with O3. CO, CO2 and free H all work to create Ozone in smog, so this may apply at high altitude as well.

Ozone depletion is mainly the work of Nitrogen oxides, which when expelled from your car or Whippet catridges, survives the year or so it takes to difuse to the upper atmoshpere.

"Oh please. Even the dirtiest of hippies will tell you that smoking 1 joint is as bad for you a 3 cigarettes." That's a fabricated statistic. Let the truth Here

The court needs to be abolished and replaced with Supreme Juries. Each case/review/whatever sees nine of us selected at random and flying out to Washington to deal with whatever the problem is.

This is unworkable if you want to maintain justice. At least judges are supposed to be knowledgeble of the USA Constitution, most citizens aren't nearly as knowledgeble. Having said that I am a strong believer in Jury Nullification and a Fully Informed Jury.

Some class, since LSD synthesis is extremly difficult.

Of course it's a good thing. LSD-25 expands your horizons and breaks down pre-existing thought structures, which makes one more creative and generally smarter, provided that one uses a reasonable amount of moderation. Since you think it's a bad thing, it's obvious you don't know anything about it. I suggest you go educate yourself: http://erowid.org/

Unfortunately, because of the war on drugs, it's difficult to get good data on what LSD does. We really don't understand currently how it works on the mind.

Go look up books written by Dr. Jonathan Ott and go check out Erowid for a mind-expanding experience, without doing the drug itself.

Also, I should note that many, if not most, of our most influential people in almost every niche of America's history did drugs of some sort or another, or supported them. For example, Thomas Jefferson grew marijuana and had a whole spiel about it's beneficial properties, from how it could make nearly-dead land arable again, to the benefits of hemp oils and fibers. Jimi Hendrix, as well as many other popular musical artists, wrote some of their best (and notably most influential) music either while they were on drugs, thinking about drugs, recalling experiences with drugs, etc.

Okay, sorry. I know that went offtopic.

"Bob Wallace was a software pioneer, the ninth employee at Microsoft, the worlds top amateur neuroscientist, and a visionary philanthropist who laid the financial foundations of The Heffter Research Institute. He was also one of the most patient and caring people one would ever meet. When he died of pneumonia at an untimely 53, we lost a great and good friend."
-Heffter

"Bob Wallace was a software pioneer, the ninth employee at Microsoft, the worlds top amateur neuroscientist, and a visionary philanthropist who laid the financial foundations of The Heffter Research Institute. He was also one of the most patient and caring people one would ever meet. When he died of pneumonia at an untimely 53, we lost a great and good friend."
-Heffter

The correlation between being high and driving dangerously is tenuous, at best. The "official" conclusion of several European countries (UK, France, and at least a few others, I believe) is that while THC does impair reaction time, users compensate by driving more carefully, and no strong statistical correlation between the use of marijuana and dangerous driving has been conclusively found. Even the FDA has reached a similar conclusion in the US.

Don't believe me? You don't have to. Click here and read a few of the reports they cite:
Click click

>And legalize pot

Not to mention, the IQ drop is a government myth. The cherry-picked studies which show this have some seriously flawed methodology like graduate students tested against off-the-street stoners. If you can keep producing results that show marijuana in a negative light you can some nice grants from the government.

500 micrograms

Also known as the placebo effect.

There are well-known drugs that are effective in the microgram range, you know.

The MIT neuroscientist who's credited with discovering the sleep-inducing properties of supplemental melatonin says the most effective dose is around 300ug, and that higher doses can be less effective (besides having stronger side effects).

I occasionally take it (very rarely), and the melatonin tablets I have are 0.5 mg = 500ug strong. I find them effective (though of course that's anecdotal evidence).

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasc a.shtml Some information on what he's talking about, in case anyone was interested :D

A.A

You're one of very few performers who has a song about DXM. I'm wondering about your experiences with it. Have you used it? If so, did you like it? What about your observations on other people's recreational use of DXM?

i dunno... i'm filled with nyquil.

Ahh... disassociation with time? A reverbed tinge to audio? Liliputian size distortions? All this... AND MORE!"

Yet, alcohol is perfectly legal. They even serve it in bars, where people drive to. Read about the differences between being under the influence of alcohol and cannibis.

The drug laws are there not for the concern of people's health, it's a concern for money.

As for legislating morality, I think it should be kept basic. As long as it doesn't interefere with another unconsenting person or their property then it's fair game. Yes, there are people who are going to argue the minutae of that statement, and honestly, This author explains it very well and all his books are available online, check them out if you'd like.

A.A

Yet, alcohol is perfectly legal. They even serve it in bars, where people drive to. Read about the differences between being under the influence of alcohol and cannibis.

The drug laws are there not for the concern of people's health, it's a concern for money.

As for legislating morality, I think it should be kept basic. As long as it doesn't interefere with another unconsenting person or their property then it's fair game. Yes, there are people who are going to argue the minutae of that statement, and honestly, This author explains it very well and all his books are available online, check them out if you'd like.

A.A

Best way to do it is Supercritical Fluid Extraction.

--Well, it may seem harsh, but you could always move to another state, or not smoke marijuana. of course, it is addicting, so that's like telling people not to smoke.--

Or we could turn the point around and say that if you don't like SOMEONE ELSE smoking marijuana, you could just move to another state right?

More to the point, "Marijuana produces no withdrawal symptoms no matter how heavy it is used. It is habit forming (psychologically addictive), but not physically addictive. The majority of people who quit marijuana don't even have to think twice about it. Comparing marijuana to addictive drugs is really quite silly.
For a drug to be physically addictive, it must be reinforcing, produce withdrawal symptoms, and produce tolerance. Marijuana is reinforcing, because it feels good, but it does not do the other two things. Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are all physically addictive."(1)

--Laws ARE societies morals.--
Law : The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.

Moral : Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character.

From their definitions, I'd say they were two completely different things. One is setup to guide a society, the other to guide a person. The problem I have with having "moralistic" laws is this : Who's morals do we get to use? Yours? Mine? Ted, the guy from Accounting's? I believe that in order for a law enforcement system to work, it has to be FAIR and EQUAL to 99% of people. Notice I said 99%, I don't think we'll ever have 100% of people happy, that doesn't bother me. When we're starting to get a large portion of our society IN JAIL for non-violent crimes, you're led to believe either that we're a society of lawbreakers and brigands, OR, that perhaps the laws are unjust and people are being deprived of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" unnecessarily.

--For example: how old is a consenting adult for you? --
That, depends on the person. There is no "magic age" to me. My long time girlfriend was 17 when I met her, and I was 25. Does that make me a pervert? How about if you consider that she's one of the most mentally mature people I've met in my entire life?

The reason that I believe in such a simplistic code of LAW is to allow people the freedom to do what THEY feel is right as long as it DOES NOT infringe on another person's PROPERTY or PERSON. It's not a difficult concept to grasp really. You live your way, I'll live mine, as long as I don't steal from you or injure your person, we're fine. I don't have to believe the way you do, and you don't have to believe the way I do. I thought that was that whole "Freedom" thing we keep sending people to die for.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, "Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye," when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
--A Famous Carpenter.

(1)
What Marijuana actually does and some information that's NOT from a pharm. company trying to sell you drugs.

--Well, it may seem harsh, but you could always move to another state, or not smoke marijuana. of course, it is addicting, so that's like telling people not to smoke.--

Or we could turn the point around and say that if you don't like SOMEONE ELSE smoking marijuana, you could just move to another state right?

More to the point, "Marijuana produces no withdrawal symptoms no matter how heavy it is used. It is habit forming (psychologically addictive), but not physically addictive. The majority of people who quit marijuana don't even have to think twice about it. Comparing marijuana to addictive drugs is really quite silly.
For a drug to be physically addictive, it must be reinforcing, produce withdrawal symptoms, and produce tolerance. Marijuana is reinforcing, because it feels good, but it does not do the other two things. Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are all physically addictive."(1)

--Laws ARE societies morals.--
Law : The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.

Moral : Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character.

From their definitions, I'd say they were two completely different things. One is setup to guide a society, the other to guide a person. The problem I have with having "moralistic" laws is this : Who's morals do we get to use? Yours? Mine? Ted, the guy from Accounting's? I believe that in order for a law enforcement system to work, it has to be FAIR and EQUAL to 99% of people. Notice I said 99%, I don't think we'll ever have 100% of people happy, that doesn't bother me. When we're starting to get a large portion of our society IN JAIL for non-violent crimes, you're led to believe either that we're a society of lawbreakers and brigands, OR, that perhaps the laws are unjust and people are being deprived of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" unnecessarily.

--For example: how old is a consenting adult for you? --
That, depends on the person. There is no "magic age" to me. My long time girlfriend was 17 when I met her, and I was 25. Does that make me a pervert? How about if you consider that she's one of the most mentally mature people I've met in my entire life?

The reason that I believe in such a simplistic code of LAW is to allow people the freedom to do what THEY feel is right as long as it DOES NOT infringe on another person's PROPERTY or PERSON. It's not a difficult concept to grasp really. You live your way, I'll live mine, as long as I don't steal from you or injure your person, we're fine. I don't have to believe the way you do, and you don't have to believe the way I do. I thought that was that whole "Freedom" thing we keep sending people to die for.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, "Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye," when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
--A Famous Carpenter.

(1)
What Marijuana actually does and some information that's NOT from a pharm. company trying to sell you drugs.

IIRC, he also smokes pejote(sp)