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http://html.themilwaukeechannel.com/sh/election200 0/stories/election2000-20001105-222208.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a35afc35a3e.ht m

What's really relevant here is that Wisconsin went to Gore by only 5700 votes. Wisconsin could have just as easily been implicated in the same mess as the Florida votes debate.

and the journalist ripped the other guy to shreds

Ah, yes, this answers the question by providing an example of how the Swifties are lying. If the "journalist" ripped the guy to shreds then the Swift Boat Veterans must be lying.

he also exposed that the swift boat guy has had an agenda against Kerry for over 20 years (It's actually over 30 years)

So I suppose that George Bush has been secretly behind John O'Neill for over 30 years just so O'Neill could come out against Kerry now, right? Personally I might be upset at Kerry too if he had lied about me and then used his lies for his own personal gain over the last 30 years. Oh, and if you want to see someone "ripping the other guy to shreds," you might want to watch the John O'Neill vs. John Kerry debate of June 30, 1971.

Oh, and just so I can prove my point about providing specific examples, here are a couple from the Swift Boat Veterans:

1) John Kerry lied about Christmas in Cambodia - This is something that even John Kerry's campaign has been forced to acknowledge.

2) John Kerry lied about soldiers committing war crimes, himself included. Though it is true some small number of soldiers committed war crimes, it was not at all common to engage in these acts as Kerry describes it, nor was it fair to condemn the entire military based on the acts of a few. Also, this is an interesting point, either Kerry was truthful about committing war crimes and he, himself is a war criminal (far worse a criminal than those involved in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal I might add), or John Kerry is again lying. Which would you rather have, a pathological liar or a war criminal?

Lastly, for those who will whine and moan about why are we still talking about Vietnam, I'll tell you why. Because John Kerry can't stop talking about it! Kerry can't seem to complete a sentance without mentioning that he served in Vietnam. If Kerry wants us to look at his Vietnam record above his Senate record for the past 20 years then we're going to do it. And we won't back down.

Wow, this is news to me. I'm sorry but out of all the news stories and coverage in the so-called "right-wing" mainstream media, all I've seen is attacks on this group of veterans. I've hardly seen ANY attempt at all to discredit even a single claim of theirs.

So far almost every attack on the Swift Boat Veterans has been a personal, ad hominem attack on these veterans' character, not on their claims. The Kerry campaign, and many ex-Clintonistas, keep repeating crap like "Bush is behind it" (patently false), "these men didn't serve on Kerry's boat" (many of them were next to his boat, but hey look, they now have Kerry's gunner, who WAS on Kerry's boat), or "they're funded by Republicans" (so, should Democrats be funding them? Or, how does that change their message?) and lots of other junk like that.

Why doesn't Kerry confront their claims head-on? Why won't he release all his medical and other service records? Why did Kerry lie about spending Christmas in Cambodia? An event that he claims was "seared -- seared -- in [him]," and changed his life. Why do so many people that served alongside and above Kerry (including almost all of his commanding officers) feel that Kerry is not fit to be Commander in Chief? When are we going to get answers from Kerry and not ad hominem attacks?

I'm sorry, but the number of veterans that served with Kerry and don't want him to be president far outnumbers the veterans that served with him and want him to be president. These vets earned their right to speak just as much as Kerry did and they should be allowed to tell their story. This is still America isn't it? We do still have freedom of speech don't we? Or is it only when John Kerry agrees with it?

Of course no one will be able to read what I have to say because Slashdot is so "anybody but Bush" that the moderators here would mod up Satan, Bill Gates or even Darl McBride before they'd allow a right-leaning point of view.

No big deal here. You can guess the so-called censored stories. They are basically your conspiracy theory bash Bush stories! It's too bad they don't mention John Kerry, and the DNCs, attempt to censor the Swift Boat Veterans using these letters.

www.freerepublic.com

This'll probably get modded down, but consider that there are more than 2 points of view. Now, you may feel that the left is being underrepresented and all the media is pro-Bush - but the Free Republic people feel otherwise, and will show you the other side. Even if you don't like it, it's interesting to see what kind of stories are out there.

You're speaking of Looking for Madam Tetrachromat.

Obviously you have never heard of freerepublic.com

Post links to a website with her home phone number and addresss. ". . . she's a dem party hack." And that's after the mods purged the thread.

And they post addy's of more than just delegates...

It's a sick society that ignores that kind of presidential dementia, or finds it reassuring. Another sign of that sickness is the difficulty of finding any mainstream news source in the search results for the quote to which you link in your .sig. People who share Bush's creepy faith should be shouting it from the mountaintops, while the rest of us should be shouting about it in the streets. Keeping it on the down-low is diabolical.

Remember this?

12 yr old Washington DC girl put in jail for eating on subway

When basic necessities are denied, Food and personal expression, there is only rebellion and death to follow. the arguments in this forum, resonate witht he ones i'm reading here.

Basic needs should trump any and all rules. Food and Freedom rights of expression (esp when not harming anyone beyond repair) should never be breached in a free world. America is not democratic, and certainly will never be free while corporate investment refuses the rights of individual citizens.

Money is a root cause for the failure of technology to reach the people. (see: Net Pharmacies prosper in Canada).

Today, money controls how and where technology is used. If used against the purveyors of large scale technologies in a capitalist scenario, it will be crushed economically and politically bought out, muscled into obscurity via mainstream media control.

Note, that the chalking was of other peoples words who were also 'participating' remotely. "Mr. Kinberg, 25, will receive the thoughts as SMS messages on a cellphone mounted on his bike's handelbars".

Suppressing these views and the right to express them in a world where public face to face interaction is impossible and the majority of information is 'fed' through televisions via the voice of corporation$ is criminal against any rights and freedoms purported to be available to every citizen.

I like to eat when i need to eat, and speak when i need to speak, given the means necessary to do so. See: South Africa. If prevented from eating or speaking or expressing or downloading information in any format, I would also go to jail until my human rights are completely re-instated.

Nixon vs. Kennedy

Getting Illegal Immigrants to vote

more

Double-voting Snowbirds

more of same from 2000

Roads, highways, and even the police and fire departments are services it can be argued is within the scope of proper govenment. However, serveral billion dollars a year taking care of people who won't get a job, or allowing large coporations get off scott free on taxes isn't my idea of a good use of tax payer money.

As another person who replied to me said, I'll be voting for change.

I always begin writing a comment like yours. I completely agree, I too am Libertarian, and I tend to vote my wallet more off than my general social beliefs. I believe in smaller government. However I understand there is a need for public education, maintenance of highways, and a defense / police budget.

However if people want to marry (Men/Women|Multiple Men / Women|Dogs and or cats) I don't care. I'm Catholic and don't believe in abortion, but I'm sure as shit going to defend against the goverment telling any girl what they can do with their body.

Fuck the religious right. This country was founded on the basis of religious freedom. So back off.

And especially Fuck the Wacko left, telling me I'm better off paying the government more taxes because I make more money than joe-six pack. A lot of people died because we didn't want to pay tax on :INSERT HERE:

I couldn't believe it when I read a post saying "If you're standing in the way of the War on Terror, you're on my list".

Kerry's campaign announced it had 'filed a legal complaint against Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT) before the Federal Election Commission (FEC) for violating the law with inaccurate ads that are illegally coordinated with the Bush-Cheney presidential campaign'

Do we even know that this CrimethInc asshole is a leftist? For all we know, this could be a SCO style coup.

"Look how victimised we are! Help, help, we are being oppressed by evil Linux hackers!
sed "s/Linux/Democrat/"

It's not like it would be the first time the Republican party did something like that either. Remember when the Republicans "won" the election and started to move into the Whitehouse, there were reports that the Democrats had vandalized equipment and properties before leaving. People were claiming that keyboards were jammed, they had cut wires and glued pornography on the wall and "worse things, too disgusting to mention" (Leaving it up to the readers imagination and blogging sites to imagine and rumour about things like feces smeared on door handles etc). Guess what, this was all a big fat lie spread to discredit the Democrats. The Republicans showed their class immediately.

Of course, people on sites like FreeRepublic are still quoting this as fact.

So what is it you know again? Both statements are wrong.

Welcome to the right-wing mind. "Freedom of speech" only extends to those you agree with. If you stand up for someone's freedom of speech when you're not in agreement, you're instantly a "bleeding heart liberal". I was at an Anti-Bush rally in LA, and some Pro-Bush nutters were saying I hated the US and all it stood for, while simultaneously trying to cover (censor) my placard with the US flag. The irony was completely lost on those jokers.

Yup, he really did. See:
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/07/16/quote _of_the_day.html
or
http://www.irregulartimes.com/godspeaksthroughme.h tml
or if you think this is made up by liberals, check out this link to a page for conservatives:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1172948/p osts

These people are the real ugly underbelly of USA.

IP of all sorts will get copied in spite of all the DRM and other crippling technology people can devise. It's not just music, if we can't prevent kids from downloading in rich countries, how can we expect to prevent motivated adults in countries without a history of IP protection from duplicating. In China, they clone cars , that's surely not frictionless. Someday, IP of all sorts will be marketed like other perishables with a finite shelf life. Copyright and trademark laws will need to adapt to this reality.

Musicians and Authors will be like Engineers and Programmers and Farmers, if they want to live off their IP, they will need to keep producing more of it. Which was kinda the whole point of IP laws in the first place

You could have searched for it, instead of having someone else do work for you - it's all over the place - and really offtopic from the subject - a real sign of a troll to pick out someone's sig rather than stay on topic - but here you go.

By newI mean the right to anonymity when questioned by police was just decided on in June 2004, so if a cop decided you were in the wrong place at the wrong time at the DNC, you would have to give your name, and with a camera, there would be a video log to go with it - That's new.

really, who cares? yes the access to the information would be great, but the new york times is a heavily biased news organization with a lot of liberal spin and mis-information. the new york times will lie to make up stories (jason blair anyone?) or just beat a story to death in an attempt to make president bush look bad. When I read the NYT I have the same reaction as when I read the National Enquirer (gasp! my gosh, what if its true!)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1145998/p osts

I agree with you, and hopefully a majority of Americans agree with you, but if you head over to somewhere like FreeRepublic you'll probably run into quite a few people who say or think "Un-American" in all seriousness. People who do not see the hypocrisy, who do not see the irony, who do not see the Orwellian aspect, or who actually embrace the Orwellian aspect. People who litterally say we have "too much free speech". People who decry that keeping government out of religion is somehow trampling on their religious freedom, and in the same breath call for trampling on non-judeochristian religious freedom. People I have actually seen calling for stripping the vote from UnAmerican groups X Y and Z. People who see government spying and control as a purely benevolent big brother protecting us. People who think if you do nothing wrong and do nothing suspicious then you have nothing to fear. That you sould never do anything "suspicions" or out of the mainstream, that being different is somehow wrong and deserving of government scrutiny and social ostrification.

One of the "king idiots" would be Pat Robertson who claimed that the 9/11 attack occured because God was pissed at America and blamed the attack on pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the American Civil Liberties Union, and People for the American Way who displeased God and brought the attack on us. I'm almost surprised he didn't toss in inter-racial couples and those evil librarians for good measure. (They like to burn books and filter library internet access too, those damn librarians currupting their children with dangerous ideas and information.)

The good news is that the vast majority of the public found his statements quite offensive and he actually had to issue a public appology.

I wish I could give you a percentage, but all I can say is that I think it's a pretty small group. They seem to get excessing political influence through dedication and voter turn out, voting or threatening to vote as a block on certain issues. Both political parties pretty much find them to be an embarrasment, but neither party really wants to piss them off too badly driving them into the arms of the other party. Sigh.

-

Politicians like McCarthy fueled fears that Communists were plotting on every streetcorner to hijack America from within.

It's much better nowadays. Now it's either Republikkkan brownshirts are trying to destroy America!!! or else Demokkkrats are trying to destroy America!!!

You, sir, have watched Goldfinger one too many times... A single errant shot is not near big enough to depressurize a cabin. See here or here or here or... you get the point. Thanks for playing, try again.

I know this is /., but please take your blinders off. Not all Democrats hate Microsoft and big business and not all Republicans find Free Software to be communism.

Thank you. This is the flimsiest excuse to bash Bush and Republicans that I've seen a quite a while. Fun fact: Free Republic, home of the vast right wing conspiracy, runs 100% OSS.

ActiveX applets as ads.

I'm Jim Robinson, and I'm a faggot slut.
Come here to learn how to be like me!

..a corrupt goverment which can capriciously seize your rights.

So can the U.S Government since the PATRIOT act was introduced and I don't see anyone making use of their 2nd Amendment rights to do anything about it.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures ...

Amendment V
No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ...

Cheers,
Craig

Funny the UN [freerepublic.com] (It's a copy of a World Tribune article) doesn't seem to think he lied about WMDs, they think they were dismantled and moved (the sites in those pretty satellite photos I do believe)

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

Some lies eh?

and they to things like THIS ?

So it WAS a friendly fire after all.

Ah, but DS9 [had the guts to show two women attracted to each other]. Check out Reassociation.

I presume you actually mean Rejoined here since I couldn't find any reference to a DS9 episode called "Reassociation". The problem, though, is that the air date for this was October 1995. Though sexual tension between two female characters may not have been as commonplace then as it is today, DS9 was by no means a trailblazer here. Three years earlier Poison Ivy starring Drew Barrymore and Sara Gilbert managed to turn a largely forgettable movie into a media sensation with a kiss that isn't even in all cuts according to IMDB. It was a big deal then, but by the time Trek got around to this subject it was already becoming old news.

TOS used to do things that had the network execs threatening to pull the plug on nearly every episode but the people working on the show pushed back. Nobody involved in Trek since about the second movie was made (that includes Gene, by the way) seems to have any idea what those old days were like. Someone should tell the current Trek team that good stories make people uncomfortable by challenging them to think about things they take for granted. If you don't have the bosses threatening to fire you because of the story you just told, you aren't doing your job as a storyteller.

Want to know what it's like when you tell a story that really makes an impact? Girlfriend is challenging the society in which it was made and getting a reaction. Trek managed that with the first interracial kiss on television. There hasn't been one minute of Trek that radical since the 1960s.

Actually, in the end, it doesn't come down to money. What does it come down to? I'll give you a hint: read the 2nd Amendment, and this quote by Thomas Jefferson.

Actually, looking a bit further, other accounts by people who claim to have read it say its about a 60s radical, Saul Alinsky, who apparently advocated lying as a path to power (never heard of him before, myself, so don't quote me on that) ... see here and here. To be fair, that's a more disturbing thesis for a former First Lady and current Senator to have written. But it was 1969 and she was young; revolution was in the air. Give her a break!

How you can see that and claim the US is decades ahead of everyone else because you have so-called supercarriers, I don't understand.

Supercarrier battlegroups. Nine of them. Another on the way. This allows us to project the full brunt of our forces, air, naval, cruise missles, troops, just about anywhere in the world within a matter of weeks. Not that it matters, since we have enough long range planes and refueling aircraft to create a network of uncontested air power over any place in the world within hours.

Well inside a decade from now, the UK will be running a carrier with an air wing of 40-50 planes, much of it comprised of the most advanced multi-role plane in the world. Three years later, we're due to have a second new carrier.

Oh, really: two whole carriers?! Tell me, are any of these 40-50 advanced multi-role planes stealth planes? Does Britian even have such planes on the drawing board? As great as British jets are, they are dwarfed in numbers, speed, flying height, and undetectability, and so on, by the full range of U.S. air power. They wouldn't stand a chance in the air. Which is a moot point, because before any of those planes even get in the air, the carriers would be at the bottom of the ocean thanks to unmatched US dominance in subs. This isn't about arrogance, this is just what a ridiculous amount of overspending on the military will buy you.

You're basing your claim on an article in the NYT...? Here you go Like dealing with facts instead of pointless bravado? This is just a reality, deal with it. It isn't arrogance, it's just a factor of the world at the moment. And a negative one for everyone including us, not a positive one.

But this is all wrong because, what.... you'd rather I'd cite the Guardian?

As for your confrontational tone, you might like to remember that we're on the same side

How's this for a confrontational tone: you're clueless. I have no interest in the US fighting Britian or in comparing whos dick is longer. In fact, if you pulled your head out of your ass for a second, you'd see that my ultimate point is that the US is massively overspending on its military, that it's competing with enemies and technologies that don't exist even in the most implausible conflicts imaginable (like one with GB) and aren't much threat anyway, that because of this misguided focus, it's ill equipped to fight the atual wars its likely to get into. And it's encouraging its enemies to focus on unconventional weapons where they might have some hope in competing. And you call this bravado, arrogance? A criticism of American military policy?

In Post-Soviet Russia, the Country owns your meteorite as a "national property of the government". You can get arrested if you try to sell it, especially to a foreign buyer.

Apart from the fact that RGPs took out several Abrams M1A1 tanks during the course of the conflict. It would seem that the M1A1 has a flaw when dealing with close combat situations, its engine compartment isnt as protected as the rest of the system and could be taken out using an RPG.

Links:
Tank destroyed by mysterious weapon
Same story as above
Better story

I'm an American Republican, and Muslims are all guilty until proven innocent.

Oh wait, Muslims are never innocent. Hit the switch, and keep those mud heads coming!

They want him dead, regardless of what a jury says.

God, this thing is spreading like wildire.

Take a look at the article. It has all anonymous sources. Do you really believe that this guy -- Doug Thompson -- has access to the aides to the President and is able to write up this article, and yet the Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times etc. are not? Right.

The guy who wrote this is an ex-Freeper (Free Republic member) who is on a crusade to ruin Bush. He's admited to fabricating stories before. This guy is clever, he writes stories out of thin air and adds stuff you wish were true. I could just see you reading it and going "OMG! THAT RIGHT-WING BIBLE-THUMPING SHRURB!"

God, this thing is spreading like wildire.

Take a look at the article. It has all anonymous sources. Do you really believe that this guy -- Doug Thompson -- has access to the aides to the President and is able to write up this article, and yet the Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times etc. are not? Right.

The guy who wrote this is an ex-Freeper (Free Republic member) who is on a crusade to ruin Bush. He's admited to fabricating stories before. This guy is clever, he writes stories out of thin air and adds stuff you wish were true. I could just see you reading it and going "OMG! THAT RIGHT-WING BIBLE-THUMPING SHRURB!"

In fact, its worth noting that Microsoft has on several occasions in the past managed to make so little profit on paper as to not have to pay any taxes.

An example of Cisco accomplishing the same, since it was easier to find.

This women didnt just spill hot coffee on herself, and sue. McDonalds intentional kept it at 185 degrees. Normal home coffee is 135 degrees. McDonalds knew that this would cause injuries. This women was hospitilized for 3rd degree burns, as others had also been. Click here for more information.

Also compared to such third-world countries as France and Great Britain.

Right now, I'd estimate that if Kerry is elected that chances are 10-30%. If Bush is re-elected or cancels the elections, I'd put it at 50+%.

Yup, Apparently so. Luckily, the two recent ones are only temps. He still needs those meddlesome people in Congress for lifetime appointments.

Avoid The Faux News Channel, and you may learn that "The battle is over a relatively small number of judges. Since President Bush took office in January 2001, the Senate has confirmed 173 of his judicial nominees. But Democrats have used filibusters to block six nominees, including Judge Pickering and Mr. Pryor, to the appeals court, the level just below the Supreme Court."

Seems to me that the Democrats have handed the Republicans nearly every judge they've asked for. Talk about a rubber stamp.

= 9J =

From this link;

I worked as a consultant for the company that was awarded the contract for working on the zerodur glass block that made up the housing for the gyros. They brought us in to try and teach machinists optical fabrication. The tolerances needed for this thing were unbelievable, extremely tough even for a master optician. They manufactured 3 housing blocks, one of them was destroyed during the rough machining process, and an optician trainee who was attempting to polish one of the precision lands with a weighted polishing lap by hand fractured the second. They trusted the same company with the second block to complete the polishing process. They had limited experience with any sort of optical fabrication, and the specs they were looking for were way, way beyond the capabilities of this shop. I felt really bad for the guy, who was absolutely sick with himself after the accident, and perturbed with Stanford University with giving the polishing operation to this shop with very little expertise in optical fabrication. This block had a million plus in material and man hours prior to the polishing operation, wiped out with one bad stroke

Heh. Stuff you don't hear about on NASA's website.

If this test showed that frame dragging did not exist, we would be have to figure out a new way of making those two consistant, and (on the surface at least) one (unlikely) possibility would be that some things can travel faster than light.

Why do you humans always misquote Einstein. General relativity states that nothing can *accelerate* to the speed of light. It says nothing about things already going the speed of light. Experiments in Photon / Quantium Tunneling have indicated that photons can apear to tunnel through barriers faster then light.

Well Mr AC, since you havn't watched the news at all or have a very short memory, here's a quick refresher: Trucks that are portable weapons labs . These are the trucks you conveniently forgot about. What other purpose are they for? I suppose a portable babyfood lab or something. As far as the pesticides, we aren't talking about your regular pesticide found in your garage, or even on a large farm for that matter. Heavy duty stuff. This isn't Raid or DDT, its a magnatude more potent than that. Again, why the pesticide with no agriculture for miles in any direction? Especially heavy duty stuff like they found. Why would legit pesticide be hidden so well also? It just doesn't make sense no matter how you try to justify it. According to your numbers, 15,000 iraqi civilian and military personnel are dead. You also mention he killed hundreds of thousands of iranians. That is quite a big difference. How many in mass graves have we found? There are countless thousands saddam killed we are just finding out about. Much more than 15,000. How many lives were spared by overthrowing this madman? The iraqi people's lifestyle will improve and they will not have to live in fear now. Saddam had to go.

Prediction: Later it will be "Regulatory costs here make it not worth our while to stay." Sorta how a bunch of people said "To hell with this crap" and left Europe to come to New World? Why, you could... found a brand new country like that. Sounds pretty civic to me.

I won't go Randroid on you and suggest that maybe, Atlas is finally shrugging, but I will suggest that Benedict Arnold had a Point.

If you "civic-minded folk" want a piece of our earnings in the form of tax dollars, make your freakin' country a place worth doing business in.