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Biometrics at the Statue of Liberty
gurps_npc writes "There is an interesting CNN article about the Statue of Liberty finally opening again (it was closed since 9/11 for security reasons).
They have increased security to 'airport levels', and offer lockers for people to rent, partly to keep those incredibly dangerous objects like swiss army knives away from the fragile Statue of Liberty. But instead of keys, the lockers use fingerprint readers to open and close (approximately one reader for every 50 lockers)." The article notes that the design was dictated by the Transportation Security Administration.
would any sufficiently swirly object work?
a knuckle for example?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Move along.
"What no one seemed to notice was the ever widening gap between the government and the people...And it became always wider...
...or, rather, provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway...
... by the machinations of the 'national enemies' without and within) and the government's 'responses' to them, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us...
...
"The whole process of this disconnect coming into being was built around diversion...
"Nazism gave us some other dreadful, fundamental things to think about
"Nazism kept us so busy with continuous changes, accusations and 'crises' and so fascinated
"Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted', that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing...
"Each act curtailing freedom... is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow...
"You don't want to act, or even talk, alone... you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble' or be 'unpatriotic'...But the one great shocking
occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes...
"That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring: the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit (which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms) is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
"You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father... could never have imagined."
Source: They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1938-45 (Chicago: University
of Chicago Press, 1955)
__________________________________
"We will not wait as our enemies gather strength against us. In the world we have entered, the only path to safety is the path of action, and this nation will act." G.W.Bush, West Point, June 2002
"In this new world, declarations of war serve no purpose. Our enemies must be defeated before they can harm us. I will never declare war, but will take action!" Adolph Hitler, June 1940
"Not too many people will be crying in their beer if there are more detentions, more stops and more profiling. There will be a groundswell of public opinion to banish civil rights," Peter Kirsanow, Bush's controversial appointee the U.S.
Commission on Civil Rights
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
Osama bin Laden, October, 2001
CHANEY!
in a cage
As long as they don't connect your fingerprint to your name on site, then I don't mind being checked against a terrorist database. I'm not a terrorist. If they stored my fingerprint afterwards and kept it connected to my name, then yes, of course I'd be against it, but I HIGHLY doubt this happens.
I can't believe they're actually taking steps to eliminate possible threats. This is an outrage and I object as a freedom loving citizen.
That's odd, this article just did an appear/disappear/reappear trick. that out of the way, Bleh. Good thing I got my visits in long before this bullshit. What happens when the network goes down? "Sorry, but we can't see if you are a terrorist or not. no, you can't get your stuff from the locker. move along, yes, into that nice, room with the friendly gentlemen. NEXT!"
I'm glad they've finally reopened the monument. I've good memories of it. In fact, the last time I was inside a woman, I was visiting the Statue of Liberty.
...stolen from Woody Allen...
--
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Are they afraid that someone is going to hijack the statue and fly it into a building?
Yout maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! God damn you all to Hell!
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I had a glimpse into the mysterious future, and saw an article about T Rex living fast and dying young. What gives? Oh and I didnt know the statue of liberty had fingerprints. Learn something every day, huh?
What if you just push your knuckel against the reader, does it just read the patterns on whatever is placed against it or does it know whether the opbject on top of it is a fingerprint or not?
It's a sad day indeed when these measures are being taken at the Statue of Liberty. Unfortunately, I think we've crossed the line into a new age of insecurity within the US. It's something many other parts of the world have lived with for quite a while, but it's now a difficult reality here.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I don't get it. Just like many other places, a reasonable, non-intrusive technology is being used to compare visitors to a list of known problem people. It's an attractive target, and would mean a lot to the terrorists to blow up. I don't see a problem with using this as a way to deter that.
Additionally, this is a pretty nifty use of biometric technology, to key the person's fingerprint to locking & opening a locker. I'd think the implementation of such a system would be more on-topic for Slashdot than trying to turn this into some sorts of online rights issue.
In other words, average Americans will be taken aside and searched from top to bottom while Israeli spies slip in through the backdoor because of ties on the inside.
Read the damn article before posting it.
The article discusses other end-user fingerprinting applications, and mentions the US-VISIT program where every terrorist, uh, foreigner entering the United States will get fingerprinted and the fingerprints of THAT scan will be run against the FBI database.
The fingerprints taken to access lockers at the Statue of Liberty are NOT run against the FBI database.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
If they didn't have any other identifying information on you (i.e. your name) then keeping a record of the prints would be pretty worthless, unless they would then compare those prints to other databases (i.e. criminal, etc)... but I agree, a clear violation of your right to privacy.
Your mammas flamebait.
The real story here is that keys were replaced by Fingerprint scanners. Just remember to use the middle finger, get's the best quality.
Now we are going to have to put up with military and/or FBI swarming the place if a known terrorist decides to drop off a bomb in one of the lockers near Lady Liberty. Not that she'd be a target or something.
I used one of these things at Universal Studios a few months back, and it wasn't a pleasant experience. When we came back to get stuff out of it, it wasn't reading the finger properly. We had to spend 30 minutes trying to find someone that had authority over the lockers. He had to clean off the reader because he said that over time they accumulate the oil of all the people that use them, and it hinders the scanning process.
Okay, so one enters the Statue of "Liberty" only to have all liberties removed apon entering said establishment?! Hmmm.
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
I got a great finger for them.
Vote for new mod!!! Score:-2,Imbecile
Silly Putty can fool some consumer fingerpring scanners. I'd think that this would be immune to something that low-tech but if you could find a plastic with the right characteristics you should be able to make a fake finger.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
With the american gov't going the way they are, you are going to have to give your fingerprints and a criminal record check just to leave your own house pretty soon. When are you going to realise that they are the ones who are "terrorizing" you into giving up all your information and freedoms so they can do what they want.
Boy howdy, I'm wondering how this product was designed. While using a fingerprint-based system is entirely convenient and obviates the need for keys and coinage exchange units (and hey, it's tricky to lose a finger!), I start to wonder if there's anything else the equipment is conveniently tied into on the back-end.
One really nice use would be to have chemical detectors and similar rigged up with the lockers to prevent someone from storing a bomb inside them -- and hey, if you find a prohibited item that needs to be turned over to law enforcement, you already have a fingerprint to run against the National Crime Information Computer (NCIC, the same one used for background checks for security clearances and the like).
Seeing as how similar biometric systems are already in place for people with visas entering the country, why not tie it all together into a system that Homeland Defense can monitor? Ooh, I get all tingly thinking about the implications here.
So... anyone have any additional information on the company that did the manufacturing for this system, or any ideas on what the internal architecture is like? Inquiring privacy-minded people want to know. ^^
I heard the statue of Liberty would be replaced by Dick Cheney with a barrel of oil under one arm and a sack of cash raised above his head with the other.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Wow. Sarcasm is such a clever device for shoehorning an opinion into an otherwise normal statement. Let me try: ... oh wait.
"Yeah, I really bet that someone could fly a couple of planes into some buildings using box cutters as weapons to*"
You know what?
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. But before you bring them to me, Run their prints through the device on the door.
Somewhat off-topic, but at the moment, the Slashdot front page offers a slightly different version of this story summary (even after hitting Refresh). In fact, the story even disappeared from the front page for a moment, and I thought it was destined to be a ghost article.
Here's the info, for posterity, with differences in bold.
Your Rights Online: Statue of Liberty Checks Fingerprints Against FBI Watchlist
Posted by michael on Thu Aug 12, '04 11:13 AM
from the oh-the-irony dept.
gurps_npc writes "There is an interesting CNN article about the Statue of Liberty finally opening again (it was closed since 9/11 for security reasons). They have increased security to 'airport levels', and offer lockers for people to rent, partly to keep those incredibly dangerous objects like swiss army knives away from the fragile Statue of Liberty. But instead of keys, the lockers use fingerprint readers to open and close (approximately one reader for every 50 lockers). The privacy violation is of course that the lockers ALSO check your fingerprints against the FBI Terrorist Watch List. The article does not mention if any record of the finger print is kept by the FBI if it does not match. It also does not mention if the machine themselves keep a record of your fingerprint after you recover your stuff."
Note that the editorial comment about the TSA design requirement wasn't in the original, either.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Liberty: The condition of being free from restriction or control.
When an icon of freedom can't be visited without controls and restriction, what's left?
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
Recognized HUDDLED MASSES
Recognized TIRED
Recognized POOR
Recognized YEARNER
Recognized BREATHER
ALL FORCES DISPATCH INTERCEPT RECOMMENDED IMMEDIATELY
Regardless of the laws that say it is not supposed to be done, one has no choice but to assume that if it is possible to track you, monitor you, profile you, what have you...
You simply have to accept this as one of many realities... especially in a Post-9/11 World.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Starting a sentence with the phrase "Seeing as how" makes you look like a complete freakin' yokel.
I for one welcome our new fingerprint scanning overlords. I'm sure they have our best interests at heart, and we all know that fingerprint readers cannot be fooled.
For those that don't get the stupid part of this let me explain. If you were a terrorist casing the statue of liberty for a future attack and noticed the lockers required fingerprint scans would you use one? Even if you didn't know they'd be checking them against the FBI database you'd have to be one seriously stupid terrorist to not realize the possibility exists and it could blow your cover. They'll probably find a random minor criminal or two and arrest them with some trumped up charges to make it sound/look like these are helping fight the war on terror.
Course the reality is they're not helping any, they're just further eroding what little privacy we have left and the terrorists will just avoid them. And yes I realize we're not guaranteed privacy in public places but running fingerprints without notice (on a regular basis, not just when you suspect someone of a crime) is a bit beyond the erosion of privacy we expect. It's just surreal, I don't think even Orwell thought things would get this silly.
I've always found this extra paranoia surrounding the Statue of Liberty a bit funny..
At least in my experience, the SoL doesn't have as great symbolic value outside the US as it does to americans.
What Americans consider important american symbols aren't always the same ones the rest of the world thinks of when they think of America.
It's no like someone is going to take over the Statue of Liberty using box cutters and then crash it into downtown New York.
Sweet, I'm buying a pack of gummie bears and heading to the Statue of Liberty.
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
During a recent vacation to Universal Studios in Florida I had a chance to use what I assume are the same type of lockers. It worked reasonably well for me, but the person I was with had a lot of trouble getting it to read her fingerprint. There was also one reader that was in direct sunlight during part of the day, and would not read anyones fingerprint during that time.
There is one computer with a fingerprint reader and a touch screen for a bank of lockers. When renting the locker you had to put your finger on the reader twice. Once the computer had two reads that matched for you, it would give you a locker number, you put your stuff in it and push the button to lock it. When you come back you have to remember your locker number and enter that on a touch screen, then present your finger to the reader again. When your fingerprint matches, the system unlocks your locker and you get your stuff.
Now, if they DID happen to be stupid enough to use one even with the scanners, that's just a bonus!
...is do they sell Gummi Bears at the Statue of Liberty concession stands?
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
There is a Gift Shop located across from the lockers where they can purchase a package of Gummi Bears to bypass the biometric locks on the lockers.1 5254&tid=172
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/25/13
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Earlier this week infact I visited the statue. Let me just say that security was incredibly tight, even moreso than at airports. To take the boat over to the island you first had to go through the standard metal detector/xray as you would at any airport. Next, if you wanted to get into the statue (and had a ticket to do so), you had to put all backpacks and large purses into one of these neat lockers. And after that, you went through a rather interesting machine that "sniffs" you for explosive materials and then go through another metal detector/xray. And even after all that security, you can only walk through the statue (actually the pedestal) while being watched and guided by a park ranger as well as several national park security gaurds. All and all it felt a bit like overkill, but considering that the statue is probably one of the most important symbols of America, it makes sense to so heavily gaurd it.
The OECD guidelines for the use and handling of personal information issued in 1980, while not part of US law are a pretty good minimum standard to apply to any privacy and informatiom handling issue. Unless there is an Act of Congress that gives this the go-ahead (which is not mentioned in the article) this decision on what to do with information collected at the Statue of Liberty pretty much trashes the following principles:
Purpose Specification Principle: The purposes for which personal data are collected should be specified not later than at the time of collection and the subsequent use limited to the fulfilment of those purposes or such others as are not incompatible with those purposes and as are specified on each occasion of change of purpose.
Use Limitation Principle: Personal data should not be disclosed, made available or otherwise used for purposes other than those specified in accordance with th ePurpose Specification Principle except: with the consent of the data subject; or by the authority of law.
Liberty indeed.
I've finally got around to changing my sig
Excuse me? How is this a privacy *violation*? You'd have to choose to voluntarily provide a fingerprint in a public place, and that's a violation? If I were standing on a street corner asking people to volunteer to have their fingerprints matched to the FBI database, would that be a privacy violation as well?
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Now in its early stages, the program, known as US-VISIT, calls for visitors to go through biometric scans to ensure that they are who their visa or passport says they are. Passports issued by the United States and other countries are getting new chips that will have facial-recognition data, and other biometrics might be added.
Read the article: if visitors to the US are being connected to their names in this way, how long do you think it will be before visitors to the statue of liberty are connected to their names? We're dealing with a slippery slope here. There're no security measures to prevent this data from being stored or used in inappropriate ways.
What would I like? A guarentee that these prints are deleted at the end of the day, or after check out, or something like that. I doubt anybody wants or could see a reason for permanent records of this sort. (Unless of course you're 'president' dubya, in which case 1984 is looking like paradise)
and this is an entirely off topic discussion to have, but you said "I'm not a terrorist": what the heck is a terrorist, then? What does the database really have in it? Are these people that have been legally convicted of a terrorist crime (okay), or are these 'suspects'? The US definition of 'suspect' is, err, a little suspect these days
okay, /pun
The article notes that the design was dictated by the Transportation Security Administration.
The only possible explanation: the Statue of Liberty is actually a spaceship in disguise.
The shareholder is always right.
From the article, which even the submittor and slashdot editors couldn't be bothered to read:
> In applications like the biometric lockers, the print itself is not stored or sent to authorities.
> However, prints are being run through terrorist watch lists in the biggest deployment of biometrics yet -- the federal government's new system for tracking foreign travelers.
Up to that point, it is nifty and it's not a rights problem.
It turns into a rights problem when visitors who thought they were getting a locker in fact get a database check. Even if such a check were "reasonable and necessary", it would still qualify as "awful and tragic". And, how can anyone trust that this data will ever go away?
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Fingerprint readers are fancy, and delightful to show. But, there are certain limitations. For instance, success and failure rates. How would you like to walk up to the reader and surprisingly open somebody else's locker? On the flip side, what if it just won't open for you! Worse yet, you forget which finger you used (your right index fingerprint is different from your left index fingerprint, etc.). Do you have to make a selection first? Because then you have a training issue. Finally, how far away is the locker from the reader? I don't want someone else to grab my stuff when it opens. Since I'm not a terrorist, I don't worry so much about the government keeping my prints. I'm sure they're not 'tracking my every movement'...for whatever reason. The real terrorists will probably not use it, or use a photograph of a fingerprint, or a spare finger, etc. Now we can identify terrorists by the smell of the decomposing finger in their pocket! Gross!
What if you need to review the Statue of Liberty to fight Vigo who has kidnapped Dana's baby?
I don't think Egon really wants to bother with these kind of stuff.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I've never been in the statue of liberty before all of these changes, and I doubt I will ever want to now.
Yet Another Government Intrusion.
I do not agree w/the background check, but I would just not use the lockers. If they added 'just to visit' I would not visit the SoL.
The 'slippery-slope' of the checks is that they will expand and all state enforcements will report to a central database.
Of course, you get the 'I am not a criminal so I therefore have no problem w/these intrusions' from some people. Good for you. Maybe you can the first to sign up for the goverment's future Constant Resident Awareness Protection (CRAP) program, which will give you faster access to public buildings and services as long as you agree to have a GPS-monitor ID embedded in your skin.
I am not a terrorist or felon, but I object to the increasing government intrusion for my 'safety'. I am in the group loathe to sacrifice liberty for security.
I was once going to a client's data center at Globix. I was carrying a particularly nifty, but heavy, item that I found on the streets of Chinatown (an old Commodore monitor-- which, as I surmised, was still in working order!). Because I was holding this bulky object, I fumbled a bit as I pressed my finger to the scanner.
I was still let in.
So I went in, put the monitor down, and came back out to experiment. I tried another finger. It worked... I tried a knuckle. It worked...
Finally, I held my hair (long hair) back, leaned down, and gently pressed the tip of my NOSE to the scanner plate.
It worked.
Moral of the story: Biometric security is sometimes just so much heehaw, and it does malfunction (and yields false-positives as well as false-negatives).
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Have you ever thought that, like, we're just characters in a dream?
-- Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I personally wouldn't mind if my fingerprint was scanned into a database to check and see if I was a known terrorist. Because if some idiot terrorist put his finger on the scanner, the feds will pick him up , thus keeping him/her from trying to do something to the Statue. --- ResterTech
-
Of course the terrorists aren't expected to be stupid enough to use one of these lockers. The purpose is clearly to act as a deterrent. This theoretically will make it harder to plant a bomb at the statue, when before it would have been relatively easy to place one in a locker.
The problem with that theory is that Al Queda has proven itself to be rather creative in how it'll attack. I think it's fair to say they aren't considering "normal" expected methods (like bombs in a locker) primarily. They're going to be thinking of new ways we aren't/can't expect. So all this does is give us a false sense of security. Having a false sense of security is worse than realizing we don't have any/much security. At least in the latter case we stay extra vigilant. This just leads people to assume they're safe and they may not notice the signs that could prevent the next attack.And I should note that I was mistaken, the prints aren't run against the database automatically. However I would not be surprised if they start in the future or are really doing it but trying to keep it quiet.
-
Now, if they DID happen to be stupid enough to use one even with the scanners, that's just a bonus!
Just like the FBI being told by some foreign intellligence agency where one of the 9/11 hijackers was prior to 9/11? Just like how the FBI and CIA overlooked many signs of odd behaivor (just why were those guys learning to take off a jet but didn't care about learning to land?) that could have led to arrests and stopping the 9/11 attacks? Sorry it might be a bonus but I remain rather unconvinced that the FBI and/or the CIA would act on it in time to do anything about it.pay a homeless dude to go with you in exchange for lunch. Then whatever weird stuff you are carrying won't be detected under your fingerprints.
I use it ALL the time when I fly.... drum roll....
Leave your extra crap in the car/hotel room!!!
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
You want to squat over the fingerprint scanner and teabag it. Prevert!
Am I missing something here?
A suicide bomber wouldn't exactly drop of the bomb now would they?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
We went to Paramount's King's Island in Cincinnatti and they used a finger print to make sure noone else used our ticket on the second day. At first you think so what, but what if you wer ecamping at teh campground and someone snuck in your tent and stole it or someone picked yuor pocket when in the park? While I think there are better ways, you still have to collect something and a fingerprint is better then a urine sample or god forbid blood samples.
Gorkman
You'd better stay off the highways, too. Did you know that traffic camera tapes are sent straight to the NSA for enhancement and cataloging?
Dad check stuff into lockers. Mom brings the kids to the bathroom. After reaching the top, Mom realizes the urgent need for a diaper bag. So Dad gives her the key and keeps an eye on the rest of the family while Mom runs down with the infant for a quick change. Except, there is no key. Darn.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
is that a category?
based on being an author on a site running slashcode, I can say that story updates are erratic in how they refresh. Somehow I can update a story, reload it and get the new story, then reload it again and get the old one.
"In applications like the biometric lockers, the print itself is not stored or sent to authorities."
Of course the print is stored, or it wouldn't be compared to the finger opening the locker. If the reporter got that wrong, maybe they're also misinforming us about its transmission. Americans need a court judgement against people who abuse our personal info, and cover it up, that destroys the careers of people up and down the line who participate in these mass privacy invasions. This is the Big Brother we were warned about, without any protective metaphor. We need to secure our rights now, when the precedents appear, before they're lost forever - a few years from now will be far too late.
--
make install -not war
The article points out that 1. Large packages are already banned at the statue, & 2. Visitors have to empty their pockets and pass through a metal detector.
Given that, can any government official describe a specific scenario that those measures don't protect against, and a biometric locker system does?
The government has approved lots of spending, just so long as it's anti-terrorist. We're seeing just what we should expect, lots of spending, loosely justified by the nebulous claim that it's somehow against some possible terror attack.
Who is John Cabal?
I guess they're not letting them carry swiss army knives into the statue because W. is afraid that someone might try to hijack the statue, like in Ghostbusters II.
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
Um, an intelligent person wouldn't fly an airplane into an office building in the first place.
...'cuz if somebody can hijack the SoL, who knows where they might fly it! (Oh, and they should be very suspicious of anybody who has taken any Stone Temple Pilot training...)
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
How many times do people visit the SoL? Once? Twice? Three times a Lady?
How are they going to get used to them? Unless, of course, these lockers will eventually be installed everywhere...(cue theater organ)
I'm still surprised that the morons who changed French Fries to 'Freedom Fries' haven't tried to get the SoL taken down and shipped back to France - after all, 'They are against us'.
...the statue is probably one of the most important symbols of America... :)
Which reminds me of a great point I used to pull out when the whole France/Freedom Fries thing was going on. If you're that mad at them then give their damn statue back!
Shh.
as this does not constitute unreasonable search and seizure, nor is it quartering troops in time of peace, i don't see how this violates your so-called "right to privacy." Look at it this way: thousands of people every day, that'd be a lot of keys. If even a handful of people every day walked off with the keys (as i am sure would inevitably happen... i still have a hotel key my great uncle ripped off of the plaza), pretty soon they would be out of keys to the lockers. The locker system would be usless.
Also, what if someone picked your pocket, got your locker key, and stole your shit? You'd be pretty pissed off. But, they aren't going to be able to cut off your finger without you noticing. If they also run the print against known terrorists, how is this any different than when the police run prints from a crime scene against prints of previous offenders with the same m.o.? It isn't, is it?
So, in short -- no need for keys which can be lost or stolen, protect your stuff better, and maybe catch some terrorists (who deserve to be shot on the spot by the police, not recieve a "fair trial" because they aren't citizens, and the ones who are citizens are fight with these people are no better than junkyard dogs anyway and should lose their citizenship and be put on the rack).
Remember: There is no "right" to privacy, only a "reasonable expectation" in certain situations, and not only does this not constitute one, it isn't an invasion anyway.
The More Laws, the less Justice --Marcus Tullius Cicero
it's pretty sneaky that michael doesn't even bother to insert UPDATE or update the timestamp to point out this revision. i remember once slashdot castigated news sites that did these stealth updates. now micheal does it, and it's ok?
You can bet that ANYONE will be allowed to buy something at the store! Capitolism trumps security which trumps privacy.
How cool people thought it was when that statue of Saddam came crumbling down in Iraq? To terrorists, the Statue of Liberty is 1000 times more significant. If you could just walk into the Statue of Liberty with a bomb in your backpack and take the whole thing out, you've just wrecked a symbol of freedom/democracy... which is the main goal of terrorists.
When debit card readers first arrived on the scene, they appeared in unique test markets as well. Now they are ubiquitous. --You still don't, (as of yet), NEED to leave the house armed with your debit card, but the difficulty factor is certainly increasing. I've seen tellers who are instructed by their bosses to refuse ANY cash which they suspected as being even sort of counterfeit-looking because of the hassles the banks give the supermarket when a counterfeit does show up during deposit.
RFID and biometrics are on their way, and the only consumer option other than starvation will be to grow your own.
Though, I'm actually not going to stress too much over it. --That's the primary goal in the long run; Stress. The 'Number of the Beast' thing is nothing but a fear-creating tactic designed to freak out all the foolish little Christians for the purpose of generating fear which the bad guys at the top of the food chain like to eat.
Fear is food. Starve the bastards.
-FL
The problem with that theory is that Al Queda has proven itself to be rather creative in how it'll attack. I think it's fair to say they aren't considering "normal" expected methods (like bombs in a locker) primarily. They're going to be thinking of new ways we aren't/can't expect.
Bingo. Thank you for pointing that out.
I have an exercise for anyone who doesn't "get" that as mind-numbingly obvious... Given what we, the public, know about, think for a few minutes on how you might go about getting something not allowed into the SoL. Work as a janitor, perhaps? Canoe during the middle of the night? Inside your own body (Hey, you can live quite a while with your digestive organs carefully removed and replaced with explosives, and these people have proven themselves willing to die for their cause)?
Now, you probably came up with a few of your own, or perhaps spotted some obvious flaws with what I suggested. But more to the point, we can think of things like that. And you can bet that if we can come up with a few good ideas, those intent on blowing things up can as well.
Having a false sense of security is worse than realizing we don't have any/much security.
No kidding... Airport security... Bah! They needed to do one and only one thing to make airplanes un-hijackable - make the cockpit and the cabin completely physically distinct, with the crew only able to enter or exit via their own door with the plane on the ground. Yet, instead, we get to deal with the shout-and-pounce squads delaying us needlessly, yet still hear about reporters sneaking fake weapons through once a week or so. Typical bureaucratic thinking - Why successfully secure the single point of weakness, when we can justify spending tax dollars trying to unsuccessfully secure everything, then point at the failure to justify spending even more?
"We can't be too concerned with protecting the rights of ordinary Americans." - Bill Clinton.
Or how about:
"We're going to take some things away from you, for the common good." - Hillary Clinton, very recently.
The next time a 3rd party candidate says there is hadrly any difference between the Republicrats and the Democans, pay more attention.
-paul
Pistol caliber is like religion: everyone has their favourite, and theirs is the only right choice.
That's what you think -- for behind a wall panel, these people are waiting for a match and will leap out and drag you off in irons to the shame of your mother, your family, your friends and that elementary school teacher who thought you would go far some day, how little she knew!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Now we've got these expensive lockers at the statue. So someone could leave a bomb or ten, without having to get blown up when it goes off. the Statue of Liberty is on an island. Why aren't the lockers at the boat departure point? Since that wouldn't look too shocking on TV as a smoking crater, no one's going to blow it up. Instead we're paying an airport security company even more money to make the Statue less safe.
--
make install -not war
In the six years of I've lurking around Slashdot, this is the first post that actually made me laugh. Out loud.
This marks the first time I've wished I played the game and had some mod points to award. Hee hee.
[rant]
There's a difference between fact and truth. I'm sure all of those quotes are legit (no I don't have time to check), but out of context and assembled correctly these "factual" quotes sure don't add up to any semblance of truth.
Too bad the left's desire for power out weighs all else. Just once I'd like to see a liberal do the RIGHT thing, not the PC thing. I know it will never happen, after all the entire liberal campaign is "Hey at least we're not republican" and not being something is nothing to brag about... I guess you have to have a backbone to stand for anything.
[/rant]
But no, we have to attach fingerprint scanners to the locks. So now the threats and suspicions can run rampant. What's next, a drop of blood? The solution here is simple - provide lockers but don't provide the locks. Big shock, I know, making people responsible for their actions.
Make it clear that if people bring contraband to the statue, it's either going to be confiscated or they need to lock it in the lockers provided. Want it actually *locked* in a locker? Bring your own freaking lock. One that will stop a casual thief costs about $5 at Wal-Mart. Pay a couple of Park Services people to stand around and monitor the lockers to make sure no one is wandering around with bolt cutters. Now the market is open for street-cart lock vendors to come in and clean up selling $5 locks for $15 to tourists. That, my friends, is the American Way.
...relies on Michael Moore for all of his news and opinion needs.
it was the mile-long waiting line that kept me from going inside...
that and the fact that the Statue, when seen on tv or in movies, is always made to look bigger than it really is, so when I got there I was all like, wtf, it's so freakin small!
Why, yes. Yes I do.
In fact, I'll give you a twenty if you'll just press a finger into this Silly Putty for me...
They don't want you to have a key so you don't poke somebodies eye out with it and hijack the statue of liberty! Oh wait....
... You crazy Americans
(except those Americans who aren't insane security nuts)
The other day, I saw "soldiers" on the news which were hangin' outside the Statue of Liberty and spread around NY City. Foreign tourists were getting their pictures taken with them beause they had never seen guns like that in real life, nor had they seen soliders walking around populated areas when there is no war going on.
Oh wait, this is the USA, there has to be a war on something or the politicians don't know what to do with themselves! Spend Spend Spend all your hard earned American dollars on Weapons Weapons Weapons, god forbid you spend that insane budget on.. oh, I don't know, providing the necessities of life to EVERY one of your citizens, some better (read: less costly) education systems, better healthcare, lower taxes etc.
No wait, we should probably get some super-duper expensive-fingerprint-reading lockers so all the tourists can put their pocket knives (which they will have again on the street anyway), toenail clippers, pens/pencils, "dangerous" jewellery (like chains!), etc
Yeah that will make us feel better. And only 10 more kids can't afford to go to school or eat because of it. Sounds fair to me!
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
And I'm sure that information will be kept in a TEMPORARY database... not something that the government would monitor.
Hrrm... I usually just sign my name.
A fingerprint check makes quite a bit of sense. Putting timed bombs in lockers is a standard terrorist trick for getting around guards spotting an unattended parcel and calling the bomb squad. A metal locker also provides metal fragments to wound and kill. And the Statue of Liberty with its "send me your ..." also represents a high priority target for those driven by hate and bigotry, whether of the Marxist, Nazi or Islamist variety.
Notice how history is repeating itself. In the early 1980s the U.S. left and the louder sort of Europeans went as ballastic over Reagan as they now are over Bush. Yet the Cold War ended just as Reagan had predicted, and it's quite possible that the Middle East will slowly democratize just as Bush and C. Rice hope.
I can't understand why anyone refers to these terrorists as "fundamentalist Islam." Those who excuse their actions (blaming Israel and the US) and want to do little to hinder the evil they do in the countries they rule are precisely the same leftist groups (and often the same people) who excused Soviet totalitarianism twenty years ago.
Even more disturbing, the European press has begun to write gushey little pieces in praise of Carlos the Jackel, a terrorist who recent changed his excuse for killing from Marxism to Islamist. I wrote about the vile Carlos here.
It seems some people never learn. While crying shrilly about their "rights," they're remarkably comfortable with evil as long as the evil is inflicted on others. For them it's OK for Saddam to feed screaming Iraqi citizens through industrial shredders (CNN deliberately suppressed such stories), but not OK to take their fingerprints.
--Mike Perry, Inkling blog , Seattle
receives more protection and concern than the freedom itself?
Just as those who want to criminalize flag burning, to me, do not understand that what they hope to accomplish desecrates the flag far more than simply burning it.
This kind of privacy intrusion has been going on for a lot longer than most of us think or realize. In my home state of Hawaii, for instance, you are required to be fingerprinted just to get a state ID card, and I'd hazard a guess that that's not the only state that does that, either. You could dodge this particular fingerprint problem by not visiting the Statue of Liberty, but the ID card requirement in Hawaii would be a lot harder to get around.
As an interesting tidbit, I live on Long Island, just an hour and half train ride to the city. This past summer I was at the statue. Now they wouldnt let you inside the statue but you could get on the island.
Even then, the security was insane and I felt if not as good, a little better than airport security. They checked/done everything except for stripping you naked. And when you get off the boat, there was an armed guard greeting you along with helicopters flying over head.
With all that security, I couldn't figure out why they couldn't let you inside the statue.It was a very enjoyable trip for me never the less...
Are we to assume (or does the FBI assume) that a group of motivated and intelligent individuals (terrorists who were intelligent enough to facilitate 9/11) are going to be stupid enough to check a bag in the statue of liberty and submit their finger prints while doing so. Come on. lets assume for a second that this thing is actually hooked up to the FBI's database. What idiot criminal is going ot say..."hmm, I'm in a national park run by the govenrment that is hunting me, I think I'll walk over to that fingerprint reader and scan my finger on it. I'm sure nothing will come of it."
Give me a break!
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
But I lost my fingers defending this country, you insensitive clod!
I was at Universal "Islands of Adventure" in Orlando and they used this same system. Worked really well. All you need to do is remember which locker station you used and it recalls the actual number for you and opens it when you scan your finger.
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
Your argument regarding domestic violence is, unfortunately, a dressed up version of, "Well, why should I worry about a police state unless I have something to hide?"
A few years in Gitmo for stopping to tie your shoes in front of a bank ought to provide food for thought. Fingerprint readers are all part and parcel of the same monster. Fascism and fear-based population control. --The fact of the matter is that power really does corrupt; cops and soldiers with no accountability tend to abuse their positions. It's an historical fact which has even been proven clinically in cases, which, if you have studied the issue of domestic violence, you have probably even read yourself.
It's coming. And for an increasing number of individuals, it's already here.
-FL
Don't underestimate what a motivated terrorist can do with a baggage locker key, my friend.
Hijacker: (brandishing a locker key) "Everybody be cool, this is a robber...err..hijacking! I'm taking this statue to Cuba!"
Security Guard: "Err, sir..." (whispers something in hijacker's ear)
Hijacker: "Ah, erm, nevermind..." (is taken away by machine gun-armed national guardsmen)
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
her fingers are awful big... couldn't the money for this single gargantuan thumbreader be used for a better purpose, like many smaller thumbreaders to perhaps track people *at the statue of liberty*?
lol
And I am not even a Bush supporter. Politicos are just stupid.
Another Anonymous Bush apologist too Cowardly to even use a Slashdot userID when bashing Slashdot, Michael Moore, and an insightful poster. Everyone in the country knows Bush is shredding our rights for fun and profit. Some of us are against it, while some of us are sucking it down like chocolatey poison, and drooling the venom in public.
--
make install -not war
Last time I went up into the statue, I had my trusty stainless steel swiss army type pocket knife (as well as my Palm V)! No trouble. That was in Feb of 2001. The statue is ment to be visited inside. It isn't as if we couldn't rebuild it if we needed to. It was rebuilt in 1982 and had a cool copper look until the copper oxidized again to where it is today. I watched them do it.
I'm not someone who doesn't care, either. That statue means a great deal to me and the country. Side from personal reasons (as a boy I got into the torch section... woo hoo! VERY scary but WOOHOO!), she was built by friends of the United States, the French. I wish that somehow the statue could bring France back around and make them realize that we really do have their best interests in mind, even if it doesn't seem that way right now. Viva la France. Viva la Statue of Liberty.
partly to keep those incredibly dangerous objects like swiss army knives away from the fragile Statue of Liberty.
Doesn't the author realize it was 19 people with box-cutters that took down the "fragile" World Trade Center's Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and [almost] gosh-knows-what-else? Friggin idiot.
(Score-5: Conservative right wing nut)
Anyone else find these security measures at the Statue of "Liberty" ironic?
The terrorists have been winning for a while now - with all the bullshit laws and rights violations that have been going on in the US for the last few years. This has been their goal all along! They're not trying to destroy the US - what's the point? They're trying to destroy freedom in the US!
Each little step like this is just another blow to your so called "freedom".
Someone should setup a radio station with Rage Against the Machine's "Wake Up" looping. And another for "Know your Enemy".. might as well make it the whole album.
-kidlinux.
I do not know how far the lockers are, or in what are they are in. However, aren't the lockers themselves a risk?
I mean, a determined terrorist can carry all the C4 or pipe bombs they want, and place them in the locker, and set them to detonate at a certain point using a timer?
Shouldn't that be a concern too?
I'm pretty sure this is just to keep Peter Venhkman and his rogue group from stealing Lady Liberty again... They are still cleaning pink goo out of her crevices.
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
When you do this, do you have to give an ID or your picture? and where does the fingerprint data go?
While the idea is a good one, I wonder if this will be used to the feds to obtain finger prints.
Now, before you bush supporters say no, it will not happen under W's watch, ask yourself if any future government will do so? Think of Clinton's access to info on republicans that he was accused of. Think of Nixon's break-in.
However, I would also not put it past this current admin in light of the TSA DB that was put together with info from the airlines as well as the many other infractions by this government. Think of the spieing that went on in a democratic boston politician who was running against a republican; That was never explained, but it was stopped as soon as it came to light.
Think of the traitor that is in the white house and is "under investigation". 2 years later and nothing.
Trust no politician, esp. when they are trying to run
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I ran into this at the Minneapolis airport, and found it rather amusing. Interestingly enough though, I had an entirely different thought on the matter. It seems to be the staple of a lot of movies to do the hand-off of goods through a subway/airport/bus terminal locker. i.e. I drop of the goods for "safe keeping" someone makes good on the deal and I give them the key. This kind of throws a wrench in the whole trade as you now need *my* finger to get the package (and hopefully (for the finger owner) the reader requires the finger to be in good working order, which would close the gummy bear loop).
Of course on a less criminal note, you also can't give your wife the key to go get something either. I did think about the connection to the back-end database that would check my prints against all the most wanteds out there, but then, I realized that if the government (local or otherwise) actually *was* that organized, then none of this would have become an issue in the first place.
It's fun to be paranoid, but at least in my dealings with the public sector, they're probably years from being able to look up a police report online much less wirelessly inform the flatfoot down the hall that I'm dropping off a bomb.
That was the plan all along. The Mossad in collusion with the American secret government orchestrated 9-11. Box-cutters, my arse. The object which hit the pentagon wasn't even a passenger jet. The engine parts photographed in the wreckage match a much smaller aircraft, for goodness sake! Anybody who thinks differently has simply not done any research into the subject. Lazy, lazy ostriches! Perhaps some people DO need those Dopamine blocking monkey pills from a few articles down the cue! --And probably something to cut through the fear as well.
Expect it to get worse, comrade. Pretending it's not there is what got us all where we are now, with unwelcome troops in Iraq, a false residing president and population monitoring systems installed *very deliberately* at the foundation of the symbol of American freedom itself! You think that wasn't on purpose? Sheesh. This is psy-ops 101!
And we're just getting started, comrade!
-FL
I hope that I haven't missed someone else posting this message, but the article does not state that the fingerprints are being run against the terrorist database. It says that the largest deployment of biometrics in the US is being compared with the database. They are referring to the airport security. There is nothing to indicate that these fingerprints are being compared with any database or that that is even feasible at this point in time.
Hitler was NOT voted in. He was appointed Chancellor as part of a deal. Please, get some history lessons.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Obviously lighters and matches are allowed in though. Kinda ironic really - the statue of Liberty but im guessing the lockers arnt mandatory? i.e you can just leave your dangerous objects in your car and not get a locker? Also can they use security cameras to automatically store your picture with your fingerprint file? do they? is there any thing illegal about that? and one more thing, do all these different finger print scanners produce compatable finger-print data? can it be converted? Do they have a legal obligation to keep it private and secure or give you access to your fingerprint scan data (i know in the UK it would fall under the same thing as any other database or CCTV tape: you have a legal right to see your own data and they must keep it secure from anyone else and tell you what they intend to do with it).
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Last time I was at the Minneapolis airport I used one of these. In order to get back into the locker, I also had to type in a PIN or pay $20 without it. My guess is that the PIN on these is required because the fingerprint recognition is not good enough to distinguish one person from another. The other possibility is that they just want to make money off of people losing the receipts. If the case is that the fingerprint reader on this is a total piece of crap, then I wouldn't worry too much. I am much more upset by the fact that I was required to give a thumb print to open a bank account.
Seems to me there's still a flaw. "Hey kid, here's $10, can you open this locker for me?" Insert incendiary device. "Thanks!"
Fingerprints are false security IMHO.
> You *do* get to look up her skirt, however.
... "blasts air into visitor's clothing") might work deserves to be mentioned.
In this context speculation on how some other security measures ("anti-bomb detection device"
unless they've radically improved the technology, fingerprint locks are fairly easy to spoof open. Sometimes it can be as easy as breathing on the pad after someone else just used it, or covering your own finger tip with a bit of damp plastic....
At least with key locks, its pretty obvious when someone tries to pick one.
Couldnt you get a specific ring (if it had a flat top) or some other unique symbol to use to lock the locker then use the same thing to open it? Or does it specifically recognize fingerprints somehow?
:D
If you could, just do that and then dont worry about privacy. Use something different every time!
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone wanted to plant a bomb at the Statue of Liberty (or any other public place), wouldn't a locker be one of the best places to put it? Do you think someone willing to become a martyr really cares if the FBI gets his fingerprints in the process?
Do you realize how illogical that is? You are so sure about something without even checking! The contexts may very well be similar or even inconsequential. If you want to contest the facts, prove it wrong. At least the post has quotes, but you have no references at all. Only a fool would believe you over the other.
Too bad the left's desire for power out weighs all else
A left/right political spectrum is extremely inadequate. It's amazing how many people perpetuate a one-dimensional scale as an accurate summation of a political agenda.
If the scale represented economic views, the right is usually considered capitalism, and the left communism. However, extreme capitalism is just as bad as extreme communism, but I will not get into that here. Bush is an extreme capitalist. The idea is that what is good for the corporations is good for the people. We know better than that. The corps only care about money, and a good ad will sway public opinion. As bush looks to weaken goverment regulation of business (offshoreing, pollution, media saturation, etc), Kerry opposes these policies and rightly so. Yet, he is not a communist by any stretch of the imagination.
If the scale represented government operations, the right is usually considered conservative and the left liberal. This isn't even a complete spectrum. Bush is far from conservative, since he wants major changes in the government. He is more accurately a radical. Kerry is more reactionary, looking to reverse many of Bush's policies.
You would like the left to do a right thing? sounds like a play on words, almost like saying the left is wrong because they are not right.
It's more like Kerry saying "I'm much more qualified for the job than Bush."
This isn't a comment on democrats vs republicans. The examples I used were specific to individuals. Voting for a party degrades a represntative democracy, as it is the individual who will take the seat, not the party.
TodayTM BillyJoelTM GoogleTMd for StitchTMes due to WindowsTM while RollerbladeTMing with an AppleTM and a PopsicleTM
Last I checked the article stated the Statue was closed for two years. Being 2004 that would make the Statue closed in 2002, not 2001 which would not be "since 9/11."
It was actually open in February of 2002 when I visited. However, security was tighter at the Statue than at the airport. Everyone was required to take off their shoes, bags checked and metal detectors.
Deux Ex.
Damn Do-gooding UNATCO jerks.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Theme parks in orlando, FL have been using this for a while now. I remember being told I couldnt go on a rollercoaster with my camera bag and that I would have to use one of those lockers. Its more of a hassle than anything. Sure you dont need to remember which locker you have the key too, but when your cousin changes her mind and needs to get her purse, unlike the good old lock and key system, you CANT give her your thumb while you wait in line.
After a nearly 3 year detention as a material witness in the investigation of the Sept. 11 hijackings, "Miss Liberty' has been given a conditional release.
Her activities will continue to be closely monitored, and she is required to obtain permission for any travel.
There has been speculation that the green behemoth used her lamp to guide the terrorists to the nearby Twin Towers, denied by Miss Liberty's attorneys.
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Oh this is rich. So here you are, bitching about the security measures at the statue of liberty being orwellian and such, but then complaining that the FBI didn't arrest some guy because some foreign intelligence agency said he was a bad guy? Or because they didn't arrest pivate citizens taking flying lessons because the lessons they took didn't seem to match their ideas of a model lesson plan?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
First, the suspect in some crime will be suspected of having dumped something at the Statue of Liberty or some other public place. So the police will get a search warrant for the database and will find out that the package of cocaine is indeed at the SoL.
Events like that will happen a number of times, at the SoL and other places, until the FBI suggests that it really would be easier if the park service simply autmatically forward the database to the FBI. They'll cite the automatic tapping hooks in the phone system as a precedent. The FBI will store the data in a separate database and promises to scan it when they have a court order.
Whether or not FBI employees, other law enforcement employees, not to mention computer system crackers will really only search with a court order is another question.
I've found that my posts don't format quite right w/o a sig.
What's next, required DNA samples if you want to buy a souvenier?
Just last week in amsterdam (schippol), I had to show my boarding pass (to be scanned) to buy souveniers at one store and water at another.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
OK, stupid question here. The article says:
That goal sounds reasonable by itself, BUT what business does the Transportation Safety Administration have dictating what goes on at the Statue of Liberty? Is it because there are stairs inside? Is it because you will have ridden a ferry since the Statue is on an island? Or, is this another case of a government agency ordering people around with no legal authority?
It's kind of like how the Drug Enforcement Administration puts out literature that describes "the case against legalisation" of marijuana. I'm sorry, jerks, but you are the Drug ENFORCEMENT Agency, not the Drug Decide-For-Everybody-What-the-Law-Should-Be Agency, so stop it, OK? You're overstepping your bounds when you advocate political views, and you're wasting taxpayer money while doing it. I just don't understand why government agencies feel compelled to do crap like this, and I don't understand how they get away with it either.
Sounds oddly familiar... :)
Since you were so kind as to clarify exactly waht was said, perhaps you could also point out exactly where Hillary said she was going to take away only from the "wealthy".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I know which finger *I* would use to open those.
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
Hill expects visitors will find the lockers easier once they get used to them.
:)
Does he think that the same people are visiting the Statue day after day? Or does he hope that people will get their first experience somewhere else? I think he may be mistaken and it will always (for the next few years at least) take upwards from 5 minutes for people to put their stuff in (and then probably the same amount to take it back).
This is just insane - great that I don't live in the US though.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
The statue is not completely open. You can only walk around it, from what I understand no one can walk up the stairs any more. Which is really sad.
Now, you probably came up with a few of your own, or perhaps spotted some obvious flaws with what I suggested. ;) Then ignore the lockers and just place the explosives inside.
Come in with some guns, Matrix-style and kill the guards. It's not like they will be too vigilant there.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
That's the problem with politicians and technology. They don't know technology and therefore think any new, "fancy" high-tech gadgetry is "better" (in this case, "better" security). It's not. It's over-engineering a simple problem.
I have not been visit Miz Liberty, so I don't know their specific list of prohibitions, but I was recently at another "tourist site" where the prohibited list included cameras and cellphones. If the list is comprehensive enough that everyone has to use the lockers, then it reduces to "if you are dead set against having your fingerprints recorded, then don't visit".
The poor will end up shouldering most of the burden of tax increases anyway though - the reason the rich get richer is that they know how to "hack" money in the way that most people do not, and raising taxes will hardly ever get more out of them anyway.
Instead as always they only people to end up paying more will be those in lower income brackets. But hey, they won't miss a few hundred dollars a year so I guess that makes it A-OK.
It's easier to steal a dollar each from a few million people than a thousand dollars from one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Lazy ostriches and sheep - the lot of them!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
if you want to protect your fingerprints, use a knuckle, or your elbow. for the extremely flexible: try a toe.
the systems for checking fingerprintA and fingerprintB should not be able to tell the difference between a fingerprint or any other skinned surface.
the next time you visit lady liberty, please, be sanitary: no penisprints
I've been to schippol, blew the last of my guilders in a casino there - gotta love an airport with casinos. The reason they wanted to see your boarding pass was because the sales were tax free. If you were buying on your way into the country then you would owe tax.
Of course this thread should be in "Your Rights Online". After all the Statue of Liberty is part of the net! Oh wait, it isn't, well until someone perhaps puts a WiFi hotspot there.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Nitrozac and I did a JoT comic about this ... for those who haven't seen it yet, here it is. :-)
Sorry couldn't resist!
It's pretty annoying (I think that ironic actually applies here) that the Statue of Liberty is now being used as the vanguard of infringment of our liberties.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Now if only we guarded our rights and freedoms with such fervor... those being the only things more important than the Statue of Liberty qua what the U.S. symbolizes to the world.
Keith D.
Wait a minute, weren't we sending that thing back to France? A "Statue of Liberty" has no place in this country!
Why bother.
So now I don't have to re-schedule my Liberty Island trip like I did last October? It was really quite humorous: I couldn't take my knife to the Statue of Liberty (or the Liberty Bell in Philly). When I get to Liberty Island, its guarded by about a dozen marines with submachine guns.
Now, I'm no combat expert, but if I could defeat half a platoon of heavily armed guards using only a 3" knife blad, I'm pretty sure I could defeat them with my bare hands too... the knife doesn't seem to me like the sort of make-it-or-break-it device in such a battle.
And am I going to cut the statue?????
*Anything* can become a weapon. The airport issue shouldn't be as much how to prevent bringing anything that can be a weapon on board. Keep guns and explosives and long knives out, and the rest should be covered by incident response policies (also known as "throw a blanket on him and beat him senseless").
Alternatively, drug the passengers to sleep before the takeoff and handle them like cargo. They will need less space, would pose less threat, will be less bitchy at the stewards, and there will be cost savings in catering and maintenance of in-flight amusement (movie/music) systems.
Better: Use somebody fat. Removal of body fat by liposuction is a well-known low-risk technology.
Or take one of those tax free bottles and smash it and you got something quite ugly to replace a knife (or two).
Your civil liberties include robbing banks, too, right? That's where the money is. And getting all those government services, directly to you, and to the people who surround you, who you interdepend on - your civil right to get them for free is properly protected by tax cuts. You probably complain about unions, which protected many of your civil rights, saying they falsely claim a "right to work".
Of course freedom has limits: when it impinges on the freedom of someone else. Making you pay your way in the society in which you live is the responsibility that backs the society which protects your rights.
--
make install -not war