Slashdot Mirror

After writing an even loooonger discussion about the site and having it all erased in a system crash, this will be a short version. (On the second reading: ha-ha).

* The web service provider www.truepath.com/ has been online since September 1997. They are definitely for real and serves many, many other cristian sites. Let's not scan or bomb them. They are doing a great job handling the slashdot effect - we have seen many other sites choke immediately.

It all looks very, very much like a real site. Some glitches point in the hoax-direction however:

* On the member page, it is very hard to find any evidence of any pastors or doctors on the web. However, searching for '"Tim Allmon" baptist' on Google returns two hits.
-The Digital Missourian: Citing
"Tim Allmon, 22, plans to vote for Bush. But the Southern Methodist University student says he is tired of candidates "putting on the fake happy face, shaking hands and kissing babies.""
There is acutally a guy called Tim Allmon, about the age (24) of the portrait on the member page, studying at the Southern Methodist University. Sounds OK to study at the Methodist Univeristy if you are ultra christian, but I guess there are 10.000 other students there that are not, on the other hand...

The second link is not about our guy anyway.

* The bible verses they have chosen are good reading.
Tim Allmon, the treasurer, chose Mattew 22:17-22... (bible citations from bible.gospelcom.net)
"Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away."

Too good to be true? You judge. But the femnine looking Peggy Miller's choice is Luke 11:21:
""When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

Pastor Jose Rosas is also surprising. Claiming to work in "the ecumenical Catholic Outreach Baptist Ministries" is exceedingly hard to believe for me. If the catholic and baptist acutally had any collaborations, we would find it on Google... Wouldn't we? Again, we are directed to Objective as the first link...
Corinthians 8:1-13 is not that obvious either...

Kyle Goodman then. His story is almost too good to be true... We can read in the Google cache (to save his Geocities accound from flooding) that he was salvaged by Jim Carlson of the Objective site. He first was a "bad guy" with a webpage against Jim Carlson and pro Landover. Now he has changed and is against Landover. It is hard to know if he is serious. Would anybody changing mind so drastically still keep their old web page that insulted what you now believe in? (His pages are still up on Geocities, but they are often overloaded so use the Google cache instead.
There is some really good reading in Kyles guestbook. I especially like a comment (KirthGersen - 11/22/00 06:05:12):
"Taking parody to the razor's edge... The fact that you left your old site up shows you are faking your conversion. The fact that those idiots at Shutdown Landover believe you shows that they are really, really dumb. Congrats on your parody - it's quite convincing. Can't wait till you suddenly fall from grace - should be hilarious!"

Furthermore, Kyle Goldman is a very uncommon name in Google. Most hits points into golf result tables. Some link actually points to the Faith Presbyterian Church in Huntsville, Alabama, were they have posted the participants in the cermon (how about that privacy?). Actually Melissa Goldman also participated. This seem strange as Kyle have chocked his jewish parents when converting as the Objective site says. Maybe this Kyle Goldman is not the one we are looking for...

One of the links points to a sermon that was held the 15th of October 2000, which is only two days after Kyle's last note on his Geocities webpage. It seems normal to me that a young newcomer in a presbyterian congregation would be asked to lead the prayers.

The golf-playing Kyle was a freshman in Temple Highschool in Bell County, Texas in 1997 (See this link, and this directory listing). Is he the same Kyle Goldman? There also seems to be a horse-riding and -judging Kyle Goldman that originates from Washington in Wilkes county, Georgia. Btw, his horse is named Cookie.

Aaaarghhh. I want to know the truth!

Conclusion
It is harder for me to believe that someone spends the enormous amount of work on a site likeObjective for fun rather than if they do believe in it. (On the other hand it may be hard for people to believe that someone spent the time to write this :-) The only obvious people that could do it "for fun" is the Landover crew (and they are probably overloaded with that site, plus they specialize in sharp and clear irony) and Kyle Goldman that has a very different style on his other webpage. Faking the artwork on the Objective site would also take lots of skill and time.

This has largely turned out to be a study if the people named above really exist. It is hard to determine that using only the Internet, and it gets even harder when the persons are not supposed to use the 'net because of its low moral. It is next to impossible as the pages in discussion lack real-world adresses. Even if that is a sign of a hoax, nobody that tried leaving their mail adress on a page like that would do it again. They may be misinformed, but they are not stupid...

So, I choose to believe that there acutally are people different enough and determined to set up a site like Objective because they do believe in it for real. If anybody have hard evidence of the opposite, I welcome it.

...or maybe I think it is a hoax... :-) /Fredrik

I've been a conservative Christian in the South (churches on every street corner) all my life, and I don't know any Christians who think like that. To be sure, there are crackpots in every niche of humanity, though.

This web site is embarrassing whether it's a hoax or not, because it fits with one of the stereotypes that non-believers have of Christians. The media loves to report quotes, dutifully taken out of context, that have been spouted by some knee-jerk, shoot-from-the-hip, camera-happy televangelist.

What if the media consistently (or even once) projected Dr. "Death" Kevorkian as a typical doctor in the medical community, or v1urU$ h4X0r$ as typical IT professionals? You'd never see that, because they are not widely respected among their peers. (This is why "peer review" is so important in the scientific community; it helps to weed out crackpots.)

But for believers in "Jeebus" -- they're fair game for mockery and wild distortions (actually, the Simpsons is pretty fair in this respect). Unfortunately, you'll never see prominent articles in the mainstream/secular news media quoting truly great pastors and evangelists who are widely respected in the Christian community, such as Ravi Zacharias, Adrian Rogers, Charles Stanley, James Dobson, and Ken Ham.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Looks like your reference has already been "revised" to hide the nasty bits...

ThinkGeek has everything you need, except love.

Thus spake Paul:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

There you go...

They have a very extensive page on the criminal cult of Scientology.

I can give you a couple of Christian links if you like.

Campus Crusade

Bible Gateway

The reason you don't get /. stories about them is that they don't threaten google with lawsuits for daring to link to people critical of them.

Hong Kong Gets Smart ID Cards

As several posts pointed out in that thread, it is only a matter of time and equipment to crack smart cards. We should also be conserned with how this technology all seems to be heading in the direction of the mark of the beast. Can it really be that long until we have to have an implant of a smart chip like this to buy and sell anything?

You, sir, are rude and obnoxious. You are no better than the Jehova's Witnesses that everyone dreads to see at their door.

The irony is that you aren't even a real Christian, according to Matthew 6:5. You are one of those who publicly trumpet their piousness and how great it is, like a drug pusher on the street corner. Matthew had other words for you, too. If you are really a Christian, start practicing what your book says.

As was written in a text of vastly greater wisdom and wit than you appear to be able to appreciate,

CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

You, sir, are rude and obnoxious. You are no better than the Jehova's Witnesses that everyone dreads to see at their door.

The irony is that you aren't even a real Christian, according to Matthew 6:5. You are one of those who publicly trumpet their piousness and how great it is, like a drug pusher on the street corner. Matthew had other words for you, too. If you are really a Christian, start practicing what your book says.

As was written in a text of vastly greater wisdom and wit than you appear to be able to appreciate,

CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

This article is beginning to look like something I'd see on memepool.

This gist of my comments were that cases such as Falung Gong, Lu Xinhua or Tiananmen -- real and deplorable as they are -- are exceptional in the experience of the average Chinese.

I'm not so sure about 'exceptional'. Things may be improving, but the Chinese govt has a long way to go before it can claim a similar respect for human rights to US and European governments have. Taking a look at a recent report by Open Doors on the situation for Christians in China, I'd say persecution is not that exceptional, and with 80 million people in jeopardy, certainly can't be called 'incidents'.

Of course, I can hardly argue against your first hand experience, but what about Falung Gong?
Of course, I can hardly argue against your first hand experience, but what about Branch Davidian's of Waco or Ruby Ridge

Or the China Democratic Party founder Lu Xinhua, who was convicted of subversion [bbc.co.uk] for an article posted on the internet?

Or the U.S. Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer & McCarthy jailing Commies(TM)Even better is Bush / Aschcroft Terrorist campaign this is amusing. How about this jailed dissident?

Lastly, I'd like to remember at the incident at the Tiananmen. It maybe more than ten years ago, but the leaders are the same.Lastly, I'd like to remember at the incident at Tulsa. It maybe more than 80 years ago, but the leaders are the same.

Furthermore they stated (in 2001) that its decision back than was correct because it was a "counter-revolutionary turmoil" aimed at overthrowing the administration.

How about the CoIntelPro program during the 60's? And the rest of the past and present domestic and foreign PsyOps and BlackOps programs -- active campaigns to squelch "counter-revolutionary" ideas.

Red Flag is under the control of the China Academy of Sciences, headed by Jiang Mianheng, the son of the president Jiang Zemin

Does nepotism bother you? How about a Senator screwing with the voting in his state to help elect his OWN BROTHER... did I mention that they were both Sons of a former President? Its almost like a father appoints his own children to office...

1977 - UCSD Pascal P-Code was going to unify computing under one language.

1990 - Visual Basic revolutionized programming by interpreting to P-code and requiring a run-time.

1991 - Java was going to rock our worlds and promised "write once, run anywhere" using an intermediate byte code that looks a lot like P-code.

2002 - Microsoft promises one runtime to which many languages will compile in the megarevolutionary (and some say Orwellian) dot net architecture.

Like it was said in Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

Isn't it funny how that bible states that the earth is round? and this was written in the bible when the earth was still considered to be flat. Isn't that interesting? Think about it... Now, how on earth could that get into the bible? And it wasnt by pure chance, unlike the theory of evolution which depends puerly on chance.

There are a few possible answers to this. If I felt contrary, I could say that the "Earth=round" was inserted into the Bible after the fact.

The passage in question Isaiah 40:22, says:

He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.... Yea, slew they the goats, and so on.

This verse was once used as proof that the earth was a flat circle, now it's used as proof that Christians knew all along it was a sphere.

actually if you want to get technical, it wasn't all rain. Read Genesis 7:1. It refers to underground water.

It came about the next day that Moses sat to judge the people, and the people stood about Moses from the morning until the evening.
Now when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he was doing for the people, he said, ""What is this thing that you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge and all the people stand about you from morning until evening?''
Moses said to his father-in-law, "Because the people come to me to inquire of God." "When they have a dispute, it comes to me, and I judge between a man and his neighbor and make known the statutes of God and His laws.''
Moses' father-in-law said to him, ""The thing that you are doing is not good."
"You will surely wear out, both yourself and these people who are with you, for the task is too heavy for you; you cannot do it alone."
"Now listen to me: I will give you counsel, and God be with you. You be the people's representative before God, and you bring the disputes to God, then teach them the statutes and the laws, and make known to them the way in which they are to walk and the work they are to do."
"Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens."
"Let them judge the people at all times; and let it be that every major dispute they will bring to you, but every minor dispute they themselves will judge. So it will be easier for you, and they will bear the burden with you."
"If you do this thing and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all these people also will go to their place in peace.''24 So Moses listened to his father-in-law and did all that he had said.
Moses chose able men out of all Israel and made them heads over the people, leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.
They judged the people at all times; the difficult dispute they would bring to Moses, but every minor dispute they themselves would judge.

Here's the Linux version:

It came about the next day that Linus sat to judge the patches, and the patches stood about Linus from the morning until the evening.
Now when Rob Landley saw all that he was doing for the patches, he said, ""What is this thing that you are doing for the patches? Why do you alone sit as judge and all the patches stand about you from morning until evening?''
Linus said toRob Landley, "Because the people send patches to me to fix the Kernel." "When they have a patch, it comes to me, and I judge between the patches and make known the statutes of the Kernel and its laws.''
Rob Landley said to him, ""The thing that you are doing is not good."
"You will surely wear out, both yourself and these people who are with you, for the task is too heavy for you; you cannot do it alone."
"Now listen to me: I will give you counsel, and lucky evolution be with you. You be the people's representative before the kernel, and you bring the patches to the Kernel, then teach them the statutes and the laws, and make known to them the way in which they are to code and the work they are to do."
"Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear the Kernel, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain (proprietary software); and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens."
"Let them judge the patches at all times; and let it be that every major patch they will bring to you, but every minor patch they themselves will judge. So it will be easier for you, and they will bear the burden with you."
"If you do this thing and lucky evolution so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all these people also will go to their place in peace.'' So Linus listened to Rob Landley and did all that he had said.
Linus chose able men out of all LKML and made them heads over the people, leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.
They judged the patches at all times; the difficult patch they would bring to Linus, but every minor patch they themselves would judge.

Figures. I try to politely respond to a troll, and forgot to wear asbestos. We'll try this from the begining.

Okay, here's the actual quote from Exodus 20:17 (NIV)* "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

According to your post, That 10th commandment implicitly says that wives are property, as well as slaves. That's backing down quite a bit from the original you posted: Your other example, the ten commandments, has among other things, and implicit approval of slavery and classification of women as second class citizens. Acknowledgement is not the same as approval. Commandment 10 is about coveting, and gives examples of what not to covet. In those days, slavery was normal, as was ownership of wives. Bad as that was (is where it's still acceptable,) it was an accepted social norm. The rule was thus written using examples that people would understand. Unfortunately, the bible always reflected the prevailing philosophies and mores of the day (except the stuff from Jesus on forgivenes, but I'm working on understanding that.) However, to extract a statement of approval from a statement of (current understanding of) reality only serves your own self-interests.

By the way, I am aware that other parts of the bible implicitly allow ownership of women and slaves. I am also aware of parts that implicity forbid it. I only know of one of the drinking urine passages; can you give me the references. I also know about the mistranslation of swearing on the king's "thigh" (it is better translated testicles), and that Ruth didn't lay at the king's "feet" (the word also means genitalia.) I know the dirty parts and contradictions in and out. Maybe you know the bible better than I, maybe not. Doesn't really matter, kind of like this conversation in the middle of this thread.

Oh, and since you seem sure I am trying to prove a point about my religion, could you let me know what my religion is? I haven't even started trying to figure out what it is, as I'm currently busy trying to find out what my faith is (if it is.) Don't mistake correcting (what I feel to be) a dishonesty for defending religion. I have none right now.

* NIV was the default translation at bible.gospelcom.net. I do not endorse it over any other translation (except King James, which is just terrible), nor do I neccessarily endorse the bible over any other religios source material. Pick any translation, they all say the same basic thing here.

1. Deceitfulness
2. casting pearls before swine
3. ...

1. Deceitfulness
2. casting pearls before swine
3. ...

I'm sure you all are familiar with the Biblical reference of a mark on the right hand or forehead, but in case you missed it, click here to see the most pertainent section.

The location is Revelations 13:16-17.

I don't consider myself a real right-winger. However, if this kind of thing comes down, I, too, will be waiting with rifle in hand for Ministry of Truth^H^H^H^H^H Homeland Security to knock down^H^H^H^Hon my door.

(Is there a possibility that the gov't trolls places like /. for a list of "non-compliants"? Sure. That's why I posted as AC.)

Errrm...
I can assure you my Christian friends have no hang-ups about sex... The bible is full of it! Not to mention bestiality (Ezekeil 23:20)
Maybe its the American puritan spin on Christianity that is confusing you!

The quote that most people remember as "money is the root of all evil" is actually a pretty bad misquote from the Bible. The original quote is, "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil." This of course, changes the meaning of what the original author said entirely, but it's amazing how often people get it wrong.

Here are yet more links, regarding the terrorist attack. Only, these links are in response to a question I have ... are we actually dealing with a radical sucide cult here ?

Yeah, I know, sounds wacky. However, considering the planning and fanaticism behind last tuesday's acts ... and considering that the Teliban has about as much in common with Islam, as Heaven's Gate did with Christianity. Are we actually up against a group that preaches taking their lives, along with others, is a path to paradise ?

Here are some links on the subject. Decide for yourself.

Chronology of Suicide Cults
Doomsday, Destructive Religious Cults
Suicide Makes Ten Deaths Among Guru's Followers
More Than 200 Die in Uganda Cult Mass Suicide
Aum and Terrorism
Suicide Cults The End Of The Century
AUM SUPREME TRUTH
A party, prayers, then mass suicide
Lessons to be Learned: Heaven's Gate Tragedy
Cults

As I was thinking about recent events, another historic event crossed my mind, which you can read about here or here.

If you don't want to read Old Testament passages I linked above, here's the story:

King Hezekiah was sick, and when the king of Babylon received the news he sent envoys bearing gifts. Hezekiah then showed those visitors everything in the kingdom-- treasures, palaces, lands, defense stores. Nothing was kept hidden. Isaiah had divine knowledge of the ambassadors' visit, and came to question the king about it. Hezekiah admitted showing the Babylonians everything in the kingnom, and Isaiah pronounced sentence: the destruction of Hezekiah's kingdom, and the enslavement of his own descendants. Hezekiah's reply? "The word of the LORD you have spoken is good," Hezekiah replied. For he thought, "There will be peace and security in my lifetime."

What's the relevance? We've had eight years of weak foriegn policy, and at least two years of "legacy building" by national leaders more interested in their own skin than the good of the country. Like Hezekiah, they are willing to sell the whole nation down the river for a few more days of their own personal good luck. Just as in the days of Isaiah, the chickens do come home to roost.

As I was thinking about recent events, another historic event crossed my mind, which you can read about here or here.

If you don't want to read Old Testament passages I linked above, here's the story:

King Hezekiah was sick, and when the king of Babylon received the news he sent envoys bearing gifts. Hezekiah then showed those visitors everything in the kingdom-- treasures, palaces, lands, defense stores. Nothing was kept hidden. Isaiah had divine knowledge of the ambassadors' visit, and came to question the king about it. Hezekiah admitted showing the Babylonians everything in the kingnom, and Isaiah pronounced sentence: the destruction of Hezekiah's kingdom, and the enslavement of his own descendants. Hezekiah's reply? "The word of the LORD you have spoken is good," Hezekiah replied. For he thought, "There will be peace and security in my lifetime."

What's the relevance? We've had eight years of weak foriegn policy, and at least two years of "legacy building" by national leaders more interested in their own skin than the good of the country. Like Hezekiah, they are willing to sell the whole nation down the river for a few more days of their own personal good luck. Just as in the days of Isaiah, the chickens do come home to roost.

See, Martin Luther is just one of many many examples of people who stood for what was right in spite of the religious authorities. Luther was a free thinker!

No True Scotsman
I must confess that this is the first time I've heard of this 'fallacy'. Searching for a definition, I found it with reference to "Free Thinkers" on the ffrf site. No one can be a freethinker who demands conformity to a bible, creed, or messiah.
This doesn't sound like free thought to me!

Because my definition of Christianity is consistent - internally, and with that of Christ himself, I assert that your accusation of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is invalid.

"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Mt 7:21

Jesus didn't believe that all people who claimed Christianity were true Christians. I'll stand with Him.

Man, you're full of them today!
BTW - Your assertion that I was making an ad hominem attack was unfounded. Additionally, because I didn't shift my definition of Christianity, your scotsman assertion is invalid. Therefore this assertion that I'm full of them is not valid, either.

Nice try.

I'll give you kudos for creativity, but please punch holes in my argument rather than raise non-fallacies as red herrings.

the whole "killing people is wrong" thing goes out the window,
You shall not murder. Murder differs from killing.

Looks like you're the one who is full of them..... :)


What standard determines right?
Now you're learning!
You didn't answer my question.

Respectfully,
Anomaly

See, Martin Luther is just one of many many examples of people who stood for what was right in spite of the religious authorities. Luther was a free thinker!

No True Scotsman
I must confess that this is the first time I've heard of this 'fallacy'. Searching for a definition, I found it with reference to "Free Thinkers" on the ffrf site. No one can be a freethinker who demands conformity to a bible, creed, or messiah.
This doesn't sound like free thought to me!

Because my definition of Christianity is consistent - internally, and with that of Christ himself, I assert that your accusation of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is invalid.

"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Mt 7:21

Jesus didn't believe that all people who claimed Christianity were true Christians. I'll stand with Him.

Man, you're full of them today!
BTW - Your assertion that I was making an ad hominem attack was unfounded. Additionally, because I didn't shift my definition of Christianity, your scotsman assertion is invalid. Therefore this assertion that I'm full of them is not valid, either.

Nice try.

I'll give you kudos for creativity, but please punch holes in my argument rather than raise non-fallacies as red herrings.

the whole "killing people is wrong" thing goes out the window,
You shall not murder. Murder differs from killing.

Looks like you're the one who is full of them..... :)


What standard determines right?
Now you're learning!
You didn't answer my question.

Respectfully,
Anomaly

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

You can check here.

"...if there is serious injury". So, Exodus does not consider causing a miscarriage serious injury? Exodus believes in "eye-for-and-eye". S why isn't the one who caused the miscarrige put to death?

Could it be that Exodus does not concider the fetus a person? I would have to say it conciders the fetus property, since the punishment is having to pay the father. Perhaps all those claiming that the Bible states that abortion is murder, should sit down and read it sometime.

Possibly, but then again, I don't find alot of pagan literature, let alonge ancient cultures, that teach:

Blessed are the children.

The meek shall inherit the earth.

Possibly, but then again, I don't find alot of pagan literature, let alonge ancient cultures, that teach:

Blessed are the children.

The meek shall inherit the earth.

Yeah, I'll probably loose karma for quoting Ecclesiastes 1:9, but it is Sunday, and we are talking about China ... and it's no like we haven't talked about this subject before, even on our beloved /.

Still, for those who thought human rights weren't an olympic issue, just think of how much fun it's not going to be to go the Olympics and attempt to transmit stories and images of the results from behind the Great Firewall. So much for thinking that bringing commerce and communications would have the same effect as the barbarians did to Rome.

Hopefully, some clever hacks out there will figure ways of circumventing, if the price isn't too high. Sometimes I just wonder if we just shouldn't have listened to Patton and MacArthur and been done with the problem 50 years ago ?!

>At least some translations of it are. The King James/Authorized verison isn't but most of the others are.

In the USA, perhaps. The KJV is Crown Copyright in the United Kingdom.

> So I can take the KJV cut out all the bits I don't like, add in some interesting new commandments etc and no one can stop me.

> If I do that with the NIV I'll probably get sued.

And a good thing too. It's rather like the reason we have licences such as the GPL, isn't it?

Personally I'd rather just see some kind of top 10 laws that everybody should learn in school from a very early age. Maybe sum them up into even less like: 1. Don't kill 2. Don't lie 3. Don't steal

How is the Intel-compatible platform a monopoly? There are other companies producing x86 compatible chips, aren't there? (Just as it's not the Windows platform that's the monopoly but the product-- that's why WINE isn't collusion with the "enemy".)
my plan

The usual meaning is the one to do with inflammatory posting, as given above. (See the entry on troll in the Jargon File.) Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people on Slashdot have heard the term, but not understood it, and use it themselves as a fairly meaningless insult for people whose opinions they disagree with.
my plan

Microsofts vision is a world with no choice but Microsoft. Why people cannot see the inherent evil in this, I just don't understand.

Indeed. I've often talked to people who've attempted to justify this by saying "but Word/Excel/whatever is a standard!" And in their case, that may well be true-- but nevertheless, standards are possible without a monopoly, and supporting a monopoly is a large black mark against any standard. The advent of Mono should mean that if .NET becomes standard it'll be because it's technically a good standard, rather than because Microsoft produce it.

Didn't the lad from Nazareth mention something about "the road less traveled"?

Nope (or at least, if he did, nobody wrote it down.) Robert Frost said something a little like it, though :)

And after the fall of rome, it took humanity a millenium to get back to the point they were at before rome started becoming corrupt. I sincerely hope we're not in for such a waste of time yet again.

cross-reference:
Asimov's Foundation Series
Miller's Canticle For Liebowitz
David's Lament for Saul and Jonathan also seems appropriate, since America [and Rome] had much of beauty that will be [and was] lost to the human race.

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." - George Bush

The essence of the Dark Ages was centralised and absolute political power, steered by ecclesiastical authorities for whom no sacrifice (by other people, of course) was too great.

I do wish someone with both a brain and political power understood the difference between freedom and mere multiple choice. I do wish those willing to order fire put to the fagots actually read and believed what their example had to say on the topic. Then we wouldn't be facing the apocalypse for which Dubyah is a trigger. Sigh.

Quite apart from the question of whether the government's reading your email, the point remains: some messages are private-- just as when you write someone a message using the post, you put it in an envelope so that it can't be read in transit.

Don't confuse privacy with secrecy. A CS 101 textbook on object-oriented design I once read made the distinction memorably: "What you do in the bathroom isn't secret, but it's private."

...everybody who is not Intel should be busying aligning with anyone who is also not Intel.

Is polarisation always in everyone's best interests? Let's suppose we have one Big And Scary player in a field, and lots of little guys. The little guys decide to band together in order to be a match for Big And Scary, and what have we got? Two big and scary players instead of one, and a lot less diversity of choice. (Think of how often you've heard people say that Gnome and KDE should unify, because if they combined efforts they'd be able to be a strong contender against Windows: an attempt to increase consumer choice by killing off diversity.)

And I know "aligning" with someone, as Transmeta are doing with AMD, doesn't make you exactly the same as them. And I'm not saying standards are evil. I'm just saying that "them and us" thinking leads nowhere but multiple "them"s.

Sorry. Should have checked the coordinator name for 44.0.0.0/8: "Kantor, Brian (BK29-ARIN) brian@UCSD.EDU". Looks like this was the block they were using, then.
my plan

44 is "Amateur Radio Digital Communications". (Here's a list of all class As; UCSD doesn't figure in it.) Though the most obvious reading of the document is that the experiments were carried out there, they don't say that explicitly, and indeed there are other places which would seem more likely choices. Odd that they don't say where it was, though.
my plan

Oops-- and, as someone pointed out, it looks like they did. Why this should mean they want to go after Roxio about it, though, is beyond me.
my plan

The key difference, though, is that not only do Gracenote and freedb work similarly, but also they rely on the same fundamental algorithm for taking the contents table on the CD and generating the 64-bit unique disc IDs which are used as keys into their respective databases. Granted, the algorithm isn't exactly rocket science, but it looks like it was Gracenote who came up with it first.

(Now, if Gracenote had only patented the algorithm... :) )

Roxio has posted a (very brief) response to the lawsuit.

M

We know what perl is good at, everything. [...] What _is_ python good at? Maybe it just hasn't found its niche?

Good, sounds like there's a nice well-defined niche for Perl, then :)

P.S. Perl's master plan (or what passes for one) is to take over the world like English did. Er, *as* English did...

Larry Wall, 199705201832.LAA28393@wall.org

So, you can subscribe to XMR for $9.95 per month, not including the one-off expense of replacing all your old audio equipment with XM-Ready equipment. Or, assuming you already have a computer, you can put the money into a decent Internet connection, and listen to a gazillion radio stations worldwide for free.

I know it's easy to predict the death of one technology when another comes along, and (for example) it's clear that TV hasn't killed radio yet. But considering that a fair number of Americans have Internet access already, if they put the cost of XMR access into improving the bandwidth into their house, they'd be getting radio freedom XMR users could only dream of.

M

(Just kidding. This is quite an accomplishment - gene therapy to restore sight. A little different, perhaps than clay made from spit and dust...but maybe...maybe the spit contained the good gene (His genes were good, we can assume) and the delivery mechanism was the dust...maybe it's Saturday and I need sleep...)

And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

And he [the false prophet] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,