Slashdot Mirror
Dirty Dozen- The Most Dangerous Toys of 2001
An anonymous reader pointed us to The Dirty Dozen
which lists the most dangerous toys for children. #1 on the list is Metal Gear Solid 2 (which I finished this weekend and highly recommend)
Also making the cut are Gundam and Dragonball Zaction figures (nothing scarier then Bulma on a bad hair day I guess), Super Street Fighter II and Doom. Of course the specific version of doom they classify as one of the most dangerous toys of 2001 is the Game Boy Advanced port, and I gotta agree with them on the GBA thing, those things are dangerous. Play for more then 30 minutes, and you go blind.
I thought video games were responsible for all the world's injuries these days...
Sounds like a shopping list to go buy each one to me ...
"So, what should we put on the list this year?"
"Anything from Japan"
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
A little violence never hurt... that many people
More of my thoughts
"I gotta agree with them on the GBA thing, those things are dangerous. Play for more then 30 minutes, and you go blind"
i was told, play with yourself for more than 30 minutes and you'll go blind!!
12 Days of Christmas ... 12 Dangerous Toys ... Coincidence? I think not.
Looks like the dangerous toy is an action figure inspired by the game and not the game itself....
I spent a lot of my time playing FPS style games, but I was 17 years old + (today I'm 29) and I was mature enough to realize that it's a game, and that there's nothing fun about violence except when it's in a movie or in a video game.
I would NOT let a 10 year-old play Quake 3 or Half-Life. Just like I wouldn't let the same kid watch a porno movie or a gory horror film.
I feel it desensitizes a child too much. So I have to say I agree.
It should be noted that #1 on the list is the MGS2 Solid Snake ACTION FIGURE, not the game.
For the record, they listed the MGS-based action figures as dangerous, not the game itself. This was due to the fact that the figures were recommended for ages 5 and up.
The site looks like it's more about a "dangerous influence" than anything else. These toys aren't dangerous because of small parts, ineffective hydraulic seals, reactor leaks, or rambunctious atom-smashers. They're "dangerous" because they promote violence in kids.
I have yet to see any well-controlled study linking violent toys/games with violent behavious later in life. This site is just another attempt to impose one person's lifestyle on another's children.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
they are referring to the solid snake action figure, put out by macfarlane toys. does anyone read the links around here?
-=tonyt=-
This is ridiculous. Next it'll be hungry hungry hippos because it promotes bad table manners.
That has to be the most pathetic list of dangerous toys I've ever seen. Who didn't play with G.I. Joe toys and the like when they were kids? Was there some watchdog group then going "Now that toy has a machine gun, it must be dangerous!". Give me a break. Go find something better to do with your time.
"In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death."
...and just put:
Why we chose it: Because we are clueless wankers.
Video games are rated 'M' for mature, yet their toys are rated for ages 5 and up. Brand association, right?
For parents that want to "protect" their children from violent games, I think the list serves a valuable purpose.
Lawn darts... they were my favorite. We used to make the neighbor kid catch 'em.
90% of the items they listed are not dangerous themselves. What is dangerous is anyone with a warped mindset you would think, for example, that you can go around killing people with BFG's from Doom or go "karate-krazy" and start fighting people because you have some Dragonball toy.
In other words, these toys are not dangerous. As the site specifically states in each rationalization of the purpose for being listed on their site, it is the *children* that are dangerous.
What's next? DVD copies of Farenheit 451, because it incites arson?
Anyways I still remember an SNL skit of a toy manufacturer with "Bag `O Broken Glass" and "Play Doctor Medical Waste Goop" .... now those were some toys, but video games that promote violence. How about you get mom and dad to quit yellin at each other through the stress of X-Mas? Erm wait, it's toys that make people corrupt not unbearable living enviroments.
But yeah ... I will be giving out rocks for this years holliday season ... maybe I'll put a slashdot on um so I can sell ... my pet slashdot rock.(C) :-)
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
It isn't MGS2 the game, but it is the action figure that comes from the game.
This would've been a wish list of cool toys when I was younger... I'll have to remember this site for when I have to give gifts to that age group.
Seriously, this is just another Frontpage 4.0 built site from a mother who saw too much violence in her kid's toys and decided to put together a small site with her opinions on what toys are bad influences on young minds.
Wasn't that the beauty of the Internet? To give each and every person a place to express their opinions and ideas, regardless of just how silly it is?
How about saving "Your rights online" topics for discussing real rights issues. Any idiot is well within his rights when he makes a list of twelve things that piss him off, and you have the right to purchase every one of those items if you wish.
Gotta admit though, I doubt this guy gives a second thought to the dangers of Ten Lords a-Leaping around small children.
Also, I "think" they are the "founders" of the "quotation mark" fan club.
Cool! Zoids are back! While not exactly like the zoids of yesteryear, they look cool nonetheless. I like how they provide links to all these fun toys for easy holiday shopping.
and why does their opinion matter? anyone can put up a webpage and say "this sucks" or "this is bad for you" that doesnt make it newsworthy...
as soon as the CDC makes a stand THEN it becomes news.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
If we're worried about toys that promote violence, I wonder why there's no mention of those Topps trading cards featuring all the big names in Operation Enduring Freedom and all the different weaponry at work, etc.
I guess Doom's mistake was that it promotes the killing of aliens instead of Afghans.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Uh... "Shadow Cat" listed as one of the most dangerous toys?
It's only a 45-ton 'mech, for God's sake!
Every now and then my Timber Wolf steps on those things and I won't even notice anything special happens!
Here are some other dangerous toys that didn't make that list.
Is to block this site from their parents using parental control...
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
Heh.. People are amusing these days.. My son loves DBZ, I love it, my mom loves it. It's not as realistically violent as Looney Tunes. I mean, so Goku shoots out some sort of flaming orb. Tom and Jerry chase each other with knives (something children have seen with their own eyes) yet Tom and Jerry is acceptable because it's a "classic" ? It's bullshit. Years ago people played with GI Joes. DBZ action figures are harmless. If my son wants to pretend to shoot some spirit bomb on me, that's fine. It's better than him chasing me down with a steak knife.
I think that CmdrTaco needs to redo the headline. This organization is trying to get rid of violent toys. Dangerous is definitely a misnomer here.
I would agree that many of theses toys (and games) should not be marketed to small children yet many of them sell toys to kids under the recommended age for the games. A bit of sleaze but nothing that unusual for marketdroids.
i'm not listening to them until they learn how to design good webpages.
Damn, all that money wasted on sending me through Basic Combat Training for the US Army, and all they had to do was put us in a room with some toys and saturday morning cartoons.
I tell you, Looney Toon cartoons are enough training material in ways to hurt, maim and kill for any would be assassin!
That had this label on it:
A NGER.jpg
http://www.engrish.com/images/recentdiscoveries/D
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-11 -30
is the best review i can find on MGS2, i 'highly recommend it'
Well, gameboy advance version is NOT rated M. it is rated Teen [warning warning shockwave intro]
Unless you find green blood realistic.
But how are they going to solve the halflife port. That had a lot of blood in it!
gotta love parents who can't watch their kids and rely on websites, rating systems, and the government to choose what their children do.
ah, modern family is so loving and caring with modern technology.
Runnin' On Empty
This whole thing seems a little gender biased. Every little boy I know would love to get this stuff for Christmas, and not a one of them would attempt to practice 'Tactical Espionage Action' so that they can creep up behind someone and snap their necks....
Besides, have you seen those McFarlane figures? No one in their right mind would PLAY with those, they're meant to be decorative.
Matrix figures. Because they all wear long black trenchcoates and carry guns.
Perhaps the parents should just keep their kids locked up in a closet until they are 13, so that they don't encounter any of these horrible influences in society...and I bet a bunch of parents do...and they wonder why those kids went nuts.
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
Seems like information is used as the tool these days to get something done. The toys these days may often be games; however, they do suggest the operator to complete the reality. Its no longer physical means to accomplish something, but thoughts or suggestions.
Take our government for instance. When they want something done, they rarely use force anymore, but use legal means and the written word to invoke change. This causes other people to act and follow their vision.
What rights are involved with me buying or not buying a toy? The Slashdot staff seem to think everything is a right.
Please explain this one to me.
I didn't realize there even were video game ratings when doom came out. Was Doom really rated mature for the PC? Maybe they meant to say Doom 2, or "we assume it was rated M." I guess the BFG put it over the edge . . .
How long will it take for Americans to realize that toys, movies, TV, etc don't make people turn into bad people? Also, when will we understand that when a murderer blames his actions on his childhood, he's FULL OF SHIT? Listen, everyone has an inert understanding of right and wrong, no matter what you hear. Doom doesn't make kids want to go out and kill each other, craziness does. Some people are just insane, that's all there is to it. Other people don't understand consequences because their parents and the rest of society haven't taught them that when you do something wrong, you get punished for it, no matter what your excuses are.
As a personal reference, I have been on trips to Europe lately and the one thing I noticed is their total lack of sensitivity towards children in media. What I mean is that all over their TV programs there is sex, drugs, violence, bad language, etc. Rather than hearing a report about Taliban deaths, they show you the body parts strewn all over the place from the bombs. Europe has their problems, of course, but the way they handle these types of things is much better than the way we do. Everything is out in the open and the result is the kids understand real life instead of sheltered life, and I think it results in more mature people. That's just my own opinion though, flame if you want.
~ now you know
This reminds me of that old SNL skit where the guy is protecting products such as 'Bag O' Glass' while saying that a teddy bear is unsafe because you can shove it into your mouth.
Let's worry about physical danger first, and forget the mind control. If you are that right wing that you don't want your kids playing these games and with these toys - you probaly do want them to learn to fight in wars and the such - so it's kinda backwards, right?
Just get your kids a Happy Fun Ball[tm,rm,(c),*]
*Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
*Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
*Happy Fun Ball Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
*Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
More at this site!
Get your Unix fortune now!
If only it were socially acceptible for parents to actually take some time out of their busy schedules of driving their SUVs around and watching their own television to actually, I dunno, parent their kids sometime.
Then these lists would be ignorable, because parents could see for themselves which shows their kids are watching on TV, how much homework their kids are doing, and what kinds of games are ok and not-ok for the kids to play.
Supervision of children used to be a pretty big deal, and you could get charged with neglect for not doing it, so how are all these Soccer Moms getting away with completely ignoring the content they buy for their kids until its too late?
Should responsible people really take all this crap from a demographic known for recording South Park (which is on at midnight in most areas) so their 12 year old can watch it?
"Look at me, I invented the stove!" -- Ben Franklin
I thought Christains loved war (ever read the Bible?), its just sex they couldn't stand.
I liked how the gameboy advance game they thought was the most violent was Super Streetfighter II turbo. Aparently they didn't even bat an eye at Advance wars, (a very cool game) where commanders cheerfully sacrifice hoards of soldiers in battles being fought because "Hey, you're fun to fight! Wanna have another war?" "Ok!"
Why do I get the impression that the way they decide which games are violent is by reading the back of the box?
Not that I necessarily object to the idea of creating a resource for parents to check to find out what games/toys are violent, but really... It would be nice to have the people compiling such resources have at least some idea what they're talking about.
After all, if you believe the back of the box, then Daikatana has "Superior artificial intelligence" and "two highly trained sidekicks"...
Kids who grew up on a farm knew all about sticking pigs and chopping off chicken heads for dinner, as well as procreation. They shouldn't so be isolated from 'reality', it just creates people who are so darned squimish they donate money to PETA and worry about rabbits getting a rash from testing cosmetics on them.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I always thought of that list as a list of toys that themselves cause physical harm to the user. I don't get how they can say that a cd containing a game is more dangerous then say an action figure with pertuding knives that also shoots peletts. Am I missing something about this list. Has it become the most (potentially psychological) dangerous toys for kids with issues.
Adam
It's the same bullshit we're more accustomed to reading from Jamie and Michael -- whenever a government or organization takes action, they piously declare that aprents should take responsibility for their children. And then it's a fundamental assault on freedom when parents decide to parent instead of following the prescribed "Your Rights Online" way of life.
I've managed to learn not to flame most of the hypocrisy here ("A new patch for a Windows bug -- the closed source development model is so buggy! A new Linux kernel patch -- look how quickly the open-source model finds and fixes bugs!") but I find this one so offensive it pushes my buttons every time.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
IOW, "we're as serious about not marketing to kids as RJ Reynolds!"
hawk, who wishes he could include a
"Kill him! Kill him! Kill him!" I was watching my son play with a friend's hand-held video game -- a game both boys had earnestly assured me was not violent. The outburst occurred because my six-year-old was not as adept as his friend in manipulating the game: He was not killing fast enough.
:)
Way to go kid! I hope her kid is one of the American pilots strafing Al Queada targets right now. Looks like that hand-held video game might have been good training for him.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Description: A model kit of a dinosaur-like creature with a gun.
It's a good thing that they put this on their list. I mean, if kids play with this toy, they might copy it and turn into armed dinosaurs. It's a good thing this toy wasn't out when Columbine happened. Can you imagine what the death toll would have been if those kids had turned into dinosaurs before going on their killing spree?
they just give me a reson to buy the item.
seriously, it sounds like half the resons for including them in the list are taken right from the frigen box!!
I guess they feel that the "resoning" behind the resons listed are self-evident. I am not so sure.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
What about the ever popular "bag of glass" or how about the loved "self tatooting kit?"
Well after reading all this the guy at the next desk had to ask why I was laughing so hard. I showed him and he could not stop laughing. I believe it have made its way around the office.
...
I can't believe these toys are bad for kids, I remember being a kid having all sorts of action figures such as GI GOE and transformers. And my toy box was not complete without a few Rambo toy guns or something like this. Talking to my father before, he has basically said the same thing. And right now I am a collage student who is coming off with straight A's and has already gotten job offers, so I don't think I turned out that bad. So
Most kids understand that things like this are just for fun, so why should you shield them from kids. The world is a mean place, plane and simple. You should let your kids figure this out instead of babying them to the point they thing every person is nice.
This reminds me of the day Harry Potter came out (I have not seen it yet) people where handing out pamphlets at the door explaining how the movie is immoral and evil. I wish I had to have gone to a theater to talk to one of these people because it would have gone something lie this.
Me
So why should the kids not read these books that make them want to read and watch this fun movie. Do you think they should read the Bible instead?
Them
Yes, the bible well teach them about god and
Me
So let me get this straight, you want to have the kids read the bible full of rape, death, devils and other horrible things but you don't want them to read this fictional book they know is not real.
I have nothing against the Bible but its is full of stories of death and destruction, but we still read it. So why should we shield our kids from every little thing in this world. It just doesn't make sense.
I have to disagree. I and many friends of mine have played these games since our early teens (I'm 19 now for reference), and we still avoid sites like rotten.com because of their disgusting nature.
Here's a page with links to previous years' Dirty Dozen lists.
I am always surprised when they list Nerf toys as dangerous and encouraging kids to be violent. It's Nerf for goodness sakes!
Not only that, but when they do single out a Nerf toy, it's usually one of the pathetically underpowered ones. Case in point: Their 1988-89 Dirty Dozen List shows the Nerf Pulsator as the top offender. My favorite gripe of theirs: "box refers to the darts as "ammo."".
"Damn you Rock and Sock 'em Robots - can't we all just live in peace?" - Homer Simpson
For many Holiday Seasons, there has been a Boston-based lawyer who has come out with a list of Ten/Twelve toys which are physically dangerous to the three-and-under crowd, especially with parts that can fall out, be swallowed, and cause choking. It expanded to toys which may be age-appropriate but still hazardous if you have toddlers to those toys and games which were hazardous to adults (lawn darts, anyone?)
I saw a blurb briefly on the news and wondered about the hazards on the video games (perhaps running with the cartridge and falling, catching the corner in the eye?).
As far as I know, this isn't the same lawyer, and this is just a coat-tail organization. Sad.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
I'm someone who suffers from mental illness. I never knew that while I just cring when I hear these things there actually is a group out there to stop this sortta language.
While they put this one under associated with video games, I find this one to be offensive because of the name.
Rock Em Sock Em Robots, "Head Case Robot," Mattel
While I don't think violent games makes someone violent - this kind of thing does make it harder to remove the stigma of mental illness with things like that. I'm not a thought police kind of guy, but can't their multi-million dollar marketing team come up with something else?
What if I came out with a product and through some cleaver pun ''dropped the 'N' bomb''?
Before you flame me, please try to put yourself in my shoes. I don't care, I've not boycotted a product or anything. But, wouldn't hearing that all day long bother you?
Rememeber, I'm simply saying why doesn't the author use that for a reason?
Get your Unix fortune now!
But, as a parent, I think I can tell which toys are too explicitly (or even suggestively) violent for my child. And even if I didn't know anything about software and video games, they now have a ratings system that tells me which age group for which they are most appropriate.
I think the thing that disturbs me most about this is not that some people would compile a list like this - people are free to state their opinions about toys and games all they want - it's that parents would rely so heavily on these types of lists to make their decisions for them. To me, it's just further evidence of a parent's wish to simply not be bothered or involved.
If you really want to have some influence on what your kids are getting into, then for the love of all things good, GET INVOLVED. Use some common sense! Do you want your kids considering guns as toys? No? Then don't buy them gun-wielding toys. It's a pretty simple concept. Don't want your kids to get the idea in their head that head-to-head combat is Good Thing[tm]? Then don't buy them fighting games. It's all very, very common-sensical. There are lots of toys from which to choose. Pick the ones with which you feel most comfortable.
My sigs always suck.
I don't know if this is considered dangerous, but it sure is a great toy!
The court was tired of recounts, and demonstrated how to take care of it.
Just as a point of fact, they're not saying Metal Gear Solid 2 is the #1 toy to avoid. Rather the MGS2 action figures are the toys to avoid. This is because the toys are for ages 5+, while the game is rated Mature and the toys come with weapons.
This is just prime example of how liberal, touchy feely, public interest groups are ruining America. I am just waiting for them to suggest frilly pink panties as a perfect gift for little boys. No wonder Middle Eastern terrorists thought we were soft and an easy target. The front cover of the New York Post today showed how Palestinian children play -- with fake bombs strapped around their chests while practicing military assaults.
For God's sake, lets let boys be boys for Christmas. Don't make Santa deliver wimpy toys. Jesus was not born and died on a cross for that.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
How could they miss GTA3? They'd probably have coronaries if they ever saw that game...now I can just see it...oh that's a cool looking driving game..neat! Um did you just hit that person? Um did you just hit that cop and old lady? Why are you using the side view of the car? ARE YOU SHOOTING THOSE PEOPLE???? Hey your guy got out of the car...hey you just hit that old lady with a baseball bat...HEY why are you clubbing her corpse...is that blood? A molotov what? Those people are all on fire...there's flaming cars everywhere...STOP IT...he's already dead!
hehe...naturally it goes on for a solid hour >:) But seriously folks, these people don't necessarily represent all Christians!
Wow, I remember back in the day when the toys rated to be dangerous ACTUALLY POSED SOME PHYSICAL THREAT. Little plastic guns to choke on, rivets that pop out and can hit you in the eye, Power Wheels batteries that explode, failed brakes on bicycles... What ever happened to Dan Akroyd and the Bag of Broken Glass, Bag of Rusty Nails, and Bag of Sulfuric acid? REAL dangerous toys.
Now we're afraid of words, pictures, and plastic icons. Oh, I get it! It's a biblical thing!
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
I always throught Happy Fun Ball was the most dangerous SNL toy....
I sure wish they made those, though a few of the random toys out of the grocery store quarter machines probably are as "safe" as HFB...
I think Mojo Nixon would approve.
Emperor Norton would probably be embarrassed such adulation, even for such a great man as himself.
Norton Is Everywhere
When I look out into your eyes out there,
When I look out into your faces,
You know what I see?
I see a little bit of Emperor Joshua Norton
In each and every one of you out there.
Lemme tell ya...
Weeeeeeeeeellllllll...
Norton is everywhere
Norton is in everything
Norton is in everybody
Norton is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big N's
Inside of you and me
Emperor Norton is everywhere, man!
He's in everything.
He's in everybody...
Emperor Norton is in your jeans.
He's in your cheeseburgers
Norton is in Nutty Buddies!
Norton is in your mom!
He's in everybody.
He's in the young, the old,
the fat, the skinny,
the white, the black
the brown and the blue
people got Emperor Norton in 'em too
Emperor Norton is in everybody out there.
Everybody's got Emperor Norton in them!
Everybody except one person that is...
Yeah, one person!
The evil opposite of Norton.
The Anti-Norton
Anti-Norton got no Emperor Norton in 'em,
lemme tell ya.
Michael J. Fox has no Emperor Norton in him.
And Emperor Norton is in Joan Rivers
but he's trying to get out, man!
He's trying to get out!
Listen up Joanie Baby!
Norton is everywhere
Norton is in everything
Norton is in everybody
Norton is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big N's
Inside of you and me
Man, there's a lot of unexplained phenomenon
out there in the world.
Lot of things people say
What the heck's going on?
Let me tell ya!
Who built the pyramids?
Norton!
Who built Stonehenge?
Norton!
Yeah, man you see guys
walking down the street
pushing shopping carts
and you think they're talking to allah,
they're talking to themself.
Man, no they're talking to Emperor Norton!
Norton! Norton!
You know whats going on in that Bermuda Triangle?
Down in the Bermuda Triangle
Norton needs boats.
Norton needs boats.
Norton Norton Norton
Norton Norton Norton
Norton needs boats.
Aahh! The Sailing Norton!
Captain Norton!
Commodore Norton it is.
Yeah man, you know people from outer space,
people from outer space they come up to me.
They don't look like Doctor Spock.
They don't look like Klingons,
all that Star Trek jive.
They look like Emperor Norton.
Norton!
Everybody in outer space looks like Emperor Norton.
Cause Emperor Norton is a perfect being.
We are all moving in perfect peace and harmony towards Nortonness
Soon all will become Emperor Norton.
Everything everywhere will be Emperor Norton.
Why do they call it evolution anyway?
It's really Nortonlution!
Nortonlution!
Norton is everywhere
Norton is in everything
Norton is in everybody
Norton is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big N's
Inside of you and me
That's right ladies and gentlemen,
The time has come!
Time has come to talk
To that little bit of Emperor Norton inside of you.
Talk to it!
Call it up!
Say "Emperor Norton, heal me!"
"Save me, Emperor Norton!"
"Make me be born again
in the perfect Norton light"
That's right!
You've got that Norton inside of ya
and he's talkin to ya
He says he wants you to sing!
Everybody's got to sing like the king!
Like the king
Get that leg going now
Get your lip too.
Not no fool Billy Idol lip either
Everybody!
Yeah, we're rockin now!
Norton is with us.
He's with us and he's speaking to us.
He says "Peoples!"
"Peoples!"
"Everybody!"
"Everybody got to sing!"
Norton is everywhere
Norton is in everything
Norton is in everybody
Norton is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big N's
Inside of you and me
Norton is everywhere
Norton is in everything
Norton is in everybody
Norton is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big N's
Inside of you and me
Emperor Norton!
Check out the Top 20 toys -
2001-2002
2000-2001
1999-2000
1998-1999
SmashTech - No smashing of tech involved
This sort of thing bugs me a lot. I have a mixed background both in game development, and in science, so it kind of hits close to home.
This group - The Lion & Lamb Project - isn't trying to find toys that are dangerous to play with in a physical sense. They assume that violence in video games and such causes violence in children, and if they were right about that, we couldn't really argue against their recommendations.
They have a link to "Research". I read one of the papers and it is pretty weak - basically it rants about Columbine for a while, draws a statistical correlation between violent people and the desire to play violent video games, and ASSUMES from there that the games cause violent behavior.
So basically they are saying: young violent men enjoy violent games, and we would be "very surprised" if the games weren't causing real-life violence. But of course, nobody has done that research.
That's not even really research, there's no case at all for causation. If there was, I'd have to (very reluctantly) agree with them, but fortunately they are wrong.
uhm, you dont need a fucking study.
most people who blabber about 'there is no study linking violence'
had no siblings, friends, and didnt watch alot of tv.
countless playground fights were imitations of violence.
countless people fight or join armies because of the
'glory of war' as it is portrayed in these idiotic cartoons.
without 'gi joe', the atrocities of the CIA may never have happened.
brainwashing is real, and it is dangerous.
The site says these are "Toys to Avoid" and says nothing about "Dangerous Toys". The PRIVATE ORGANIZTION'S agenda is to stop promoting violence to children, and this list is in line with that aim.
I didn't see "Most Dangerous Toys" anywhere.
This story sucks.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Let me start out by saying I am an avid game player - have been ever since pong came into being. I even wrote software in the arcade gaming industry awhile back. For over a decade I sneered at anyone trying to link violence in games or popular media to violence in the real world. Hey, I turned out allright, right?
Then I had kids. My wife and I constantly bust our asses to raise or children "right". Family meals at the dinner table. No violent TV or movies or computer games. Emphasis on books, books, and books. And it seems to work - our kids are kind and polite and smart and artistic.
Then I compare them to other kids... the rednecks kids next door, for example. I overheard this four year old bastard from next door telling my three year old that he was going to kill her Mommy and Daddy. Then he was going to kill our dog. Then he was going to torture and kill her little sister, a one year-old baby. Then he starts demonstrating his karate kicks and punches. I ran out there and told him to go home and he told me he I "wasn't the boss of" him and started trying to kick me. So I grabbed the little bastard and carried him home kicking and screaming and told his parents I'd better not see him in my yard again or I was going to feed him to my dog.
I've had a dozen similar incidents with other kids in my neighborhood. You can't tell me these rats are not going to grow up to be axe murderers. What the hell am I supposed to do? Continue to protect my kids and hope they won't get devoured by the carnivores when they enter school and are out of my protection? Or do I try to raise them to be bigger, badder and more aggressive so as to rise to the top?
Cool? Definitely! This dangerous toy is a hella lot cooler than a lot of the toys I had as a kid. Voice control over a walkie talkie? Man, I might have to put this on the Xmas list. I'll teach that darn cat not to jump on the counter yet!
From the Rock Em Sock Em Robots...
The toys? website notes, ?This neck wrenching head collector says winning is as easy as taking candy from a baby's intestines.?
But seriously though, all the toys on the 'top twenty' list look boring.
these games are mostly stylized glorification of violence
they are not any sort of 'exposure to the reality of warfare'.
gi joe and dragon ball whatever are like pro-fascist
warmongering bullshit that whips people up into a self righteous
fundamentalism, much like the pakistan schools raise psycho kids who want to jihad.
PS i think its illegal in germany to have certain types of games, something to do with nazis or something.
Check out their top 20 good toys, some of these could be considered dagerous. http://www.lionlamb.org/Top_20_2001-2002.html
>> Play for more then 30 minutes, and you go blind.
Yeah, that's what my Mom told me, but it hasn't happened yet. And the claim about the hairy palms is a myth too.
I forget which comedian said it but if violence on screen promotes violence on the streets does it follow that comedy on screen provokes outbreaks of comedy? I believe that most children are sensible enough to realise that games aren't real. just my tuppence worth...
Great article and all.. but I really don't think it needs to be under the Quake heading. Granted it does talk about FPS and you could draw the relation from doom to quake. But this should really go under something like humor.
How... LAME.
... for the ultimate deathmatch."
Lets compare The Bible (a resource handed out to many, many children even below the age described as too young to play the games on that page) to these "Dangerous Toys":
"Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Revival"
- "My fists will have your blood on them"
Pontious Pilate: The Bible
- Washes his hands of blood
Doom
"Annihilate hell spawned demons with plasma rifles, chain guns and rocket launchers. Team up with a friend
Revelations: The Bible
- Just read any part of it
Rock Em Sock Em Robots: Head Case Robot
- This neck wrenching head collector says winning is as easy as taking candy from a baby's intestines
King Solomon: The Bible
- Commanded that a baby be cut in half
Now, if you want to ban those games, you'd better ban the bible from being read by those under 18.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
for things that "may" or "may not" be bad for a child's psychi, maybe these parents should spend that time WITH their children...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
This man was a Psych prof and Westpoint. You would do well to read his book, On Killing, which is now required reading there. You need to understand that this is in the final chapter of his book, a kind of after thought. The majority of the book is about how, after WWII, the US military changed the way it trained in order to increase the number of effective shooters in a firefight beyond a measely 15% or so. If you had trained for war in the military, you would know. The result was that by the Korean war, the number was over 50%, and in Vietnam it was 90%. He claims this as the reason for the unbelievable number of PTSD cases when compared to other wars. Do you think that Vietnam was THAT different? Maybe the reason was that 70% of those that shot to kill werent psychologically ready to handle it, but the training methods (which he later relates to first person shooters, etc) gave them a hair trigger and they did it anyway. I used to train hard and fast and alot, and put over 10,000 rounds through my M-4, but this book changed the way I saw all of this. It is a definite good read if you EVER talk about the effect of desensitizing violence on people. I also have serious doubts, from your comments, about whether you have children or not. For the rest of you out there with the I grew up on Doom and Im OK lines, you arent. Think about that next time you think how cool it would be if you could pop that guy and get away with it.
Put identity in the browser.
I love it when people say they don't believe something is the way others say because they haven't seen a freakin' study on it. Do you need me to drop a study in your lap saying that sence you ate gerbers when you were a baby that you're likely to grow up into a Human? Or maybe that's the problem.
Some things in life are just obvious. Violent when you're young is going to influence violence when you're older.
Lets make some more obvious predictions:
People who listen to Rap are MORE LIKELY to be in gangs.
People who listen to country are more likely to be rednecks.
People who listen to jazz are more likely to be weird (sorry jazz people, but you're a weird group.)
I emphasize "more likely", I know you can't pigeon hole everyone but not surprisingly you can most!
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
either way you're missing the point, don't blame the game, blame the parent
~ now you know
Do NOT taunt Happy Fun Ball!
Hate trolls? Troll 'em back...at home!
Here is a toy that they recommend for turning a "war chest into a toy chest"
Cranium Cadoo for Kids, Cranium, $20
Recommended Age: 7+
Description: A board game that combines trivia, charades, drawing, sculpting, ?secret decoder? glasses and more.
Why we chose it: Everybody is good at something-and this game makes that obvious. Children draw on a variety of skills and talents to win. This game assures that everyone will have their turn to shine as players act, sculpt, draw, answer trivia questions, crack codes, find household objects and solve word puzzles-often with a lot of laughter sprinkled in.
Teaching kids to crack codes....*shakes head* what have we come to??? WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN??? WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
Check out my sysadmin blog!
(And a european parent at that)
I have no problem with the games and their content or whatever. I also hate extreme Christian tosspots like this guy. The aim of "reducing the marketing of violence to children" is, however, a laudable one. These companies put recommended ages on and then deliberatly market toys at children below that age group. My nine year old stepdaughter, like all of her classmates, has been into the Pokemon craze. The way I watch it, I don't see that there's much difference between the basic premise and dogfighting - setting pets on each other to see who wins. Admittedly, my nine year old stepdaughter does have Aspergers syndrome and therefore has a lot of trouble distinguishing what's serious and what's not.
I don't believe that banning or censoring things is the answer. I do believe that awareness and parental responsibility will help. My two year old son will soon be old enough to be influenced by what he sees and hears (he picked up the word "bugger" quickly enough). I wouldn't like him to grow up thinking that it's normal to shoot/stab/punch people.
I don't want censorship (yeah - I surf for porn now and again) what I want is responsibility. I don't want people to blame the TV or the Internet for their kids seeing graphic anal fisting (much less Taco snotting), I want them to take responsibility and educate their kids. You can't take responsibility without knowledge.
The people who run this site may be going about things the wrong way, but someone needs to highlight that there is a problem.
PS Yes, our TV news does show what actually happens when people are shot/bombed/gassed and it aint pretty. And we still don't want guns - coincidence?
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
I actually find that a quite well reasoned response, it critially notes down the reasons why it's not advised to give this present to your kid and is so unseneational it's just a "here, we think this is a "bad idea"tm" more people should probably listen to them.
This is the sort of community censorship that should be encouraged. People, however mis-guided, should regulate for THEMSELVES what they choose to bring into their child's lives. This is the sort of personal responsibility that in the end could have the most real power to shape society. When people speak through their actions, and not through legislators, real things change. I see this as a really good thing, even though I don't agree with any of their listed evils. Bravo to self-motivated people with opinions!
Firstly the post doesn't take into account it is not the actual games itself this page comments on, it is the ultra violent toys and packaging.
:-)
:-)
Second, they are just giving an opinion like many others do. What does this have to do with my rights online ?
I was never given He-Man or other action figures as a kid, instead my parents gave me a Commodore64... I am very happy they did !
Instead of wasting my time with useless plastic figures, where the idea was mindless "wargames" I programmed BASIC. I guess I don't have to elaborate
life+universe+everything=42
"Your Right Online" is a very broad category, and while this story doesn't exactly fit, as noone's rights are being violated, it's the closest as this story is sort of about voluntary self censorship by parents.
It's not like CT is saying, "Look, your right are being violated!", it's more like he's saying, "Look at this silly stupid parent group! Haha!..."
And I have to agree with CT, I've played with all these kinds of toys and games and I've turned out just fine...
well, except for the killing spree I went on the other day, but I had my reasons... j/k
Lighten up...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Hello:
It is obvious from your website that you believe that toys are an important motivation behind childhood and consequently adult aggression. You are attacking a symptom and not the problem. Why don't you spend your energy opposing parental divorce, childhood emotional, childhood sexual abuse or child poverty. These are root problems. Children won't need to exhibit as much aggression if they are raised in a healthy environment. Blaming toys and games is like blaming the crayon when an emotionally disturbed child draws a picture of a knife. Do us all a favor and please remove your site from the internet. It is inane.
- The mission of The Lion & Lamb Project is to stop the marketing of violence to children.
So of course this going to release a report like this.Complaining about them is like complaining that religious fundamentalists are nuts... 1) their statements and our reactions are obvious and predictable, and 2) they usually don't have much influence on others anway.
At least the do it yourself goatse.cx guy kit didn't
make the list so it must be safe! Of course it doesn't
seem that way because I'm sure someone could hurt themselves
opening their asshole that wide.
I agree with the article. While we're at it let's take a trip back in time and list some past toys that should have been on the Diryt Dozen.
1. GI Joe - As an Army action figure it is GI Joe's job to wipe out nations.
2. Cowboys and Indians - Anybody remember playing this as a kid. Let's see, Cap guns designed to blow away the enemy indians. Rope to tie them up. Oh, btw, didn't caps include gun powder or some sort of explosive as part of their makeup?
3. Magnifieing glasses. Hmm, Take some sunshine mix it with a Magnifying glass and some brown leaves and you have the start of the large forest fires on the west coast. Of course these are marketed to children only for scientific research.
4. Operation - Ever play that game? The object is to go into and remove body parts, using tweezers, without touching the sides. Hey, let's go into the kitchen drawer, get a knife and try this for real.
5. Army men - See #1
So in essence those of us that are in our thirties and forties should be compltely out of control. Maybe we are and no one's told us......
Two small points: 1) The list is not ordered in a "top twelve" fashion. "Number one on the list" is simply the first item in the category, "Toys tied to video games". 2) "Number one on the list" is not MGS:2, but the action figure of Solid Snake.
Funny Quote: "Hey kids, want to score some Metal Gear Solid 2..." -- (from McFarlane Toys website). The wording is just so reminiscent of PSA's involving shady street corners and overdressed pimp-daddy crack dealers peddling to schoolchildren.
While I personally don't agree with the idea of corporate / government enforced content control (being a firm believer that a parent controls what their child sees for the first portion of their life, after which parental control becomes impossible as the child is exposed to an increasing number of information sources), what this site is really doing is taking some people to task for cross-marketing, and others to task for marketing clearly violent products / ideas in a guise that makes them appear to be "child friendly". For proponents of ratings systems, etc., this appears to be a worthy cause?
I will not quote their page, but provide my perspective on their top 12, to further my point.
1)MGS:2 Solid Snake Action Figure: While the figure is certainly no worse than GI Joes, it does tie to an extremely violent video game. Buying this toy will do little more than make your child want the video game, and you'll be viewed as a hypocrite by your kid for endorsing one and not the other.
2)Rock 'em Sock 'em Robot: The marketing angle used to sell these toys is a very violent one, which does not limit itself to robot mayhem ("taking candy from a baby's intestines"). As well, they tie to a PG-rated game. See (1), Above.
3)Mobile Suit Gundam: Simply a violent toy. Lots of explosion sounds, machine gun fire, etc. Also brands itself as "A thinking toy", which might be misleading, as use does not seem to require or encourage thought.
4)CommandoBot: Toy marketed to six year olds with a "sentry" function and missile launching capability. I wouldn't let *my* kid have this, because I'd go nuts everytime I opened a cupboard to be greeted by a robotic sentry.
5)"Striking Z Fighters": Toy tied closely to violent cartoon show. See (1) and (2). Toy itself has "kung fu-grip" style features.
6)Power Rangers Virtual Reality World: Toy appears to have no purpose other than to encourage emulation of violent behaviour.
7)Mech Warrior Shadow Cat: Perversion of basic construction toy. Instead of creating things and constantly adding to them, you will now create weapons and destroy your lego/construx/tinker toy cities. Also ties in with television show. See (1), (2), (5).
8)Zoids Gun Sniper: Perversion of basic model assembly toy. Instead of assembling a marginally educational (or at least historically accurate dinosaur), you create a dinosaur-like fighting machine. Doubtless, it will soon go to work ensuring those real dinosaur models you have remain extinct.
9)SSFII: Revival: Marketed to everyone. Cartoony animation and long-standing acceptance may cause people to fail to notice that it's ridiculously violent, containing some very violent quotations and scenarios, animated or not.
10) Final Fight I: See (9). Also, they appear to take issue with the possibility that this game barely requires a functional brain and could probably be played adequately by one of those water-drinking bobble-birds that you see on peoples desks.
11)Doom for GBA: For some reason rated "Teen", despite being virtually identical in violent content to the "Mature" version released for the PC.
12)Ecks vs. Sever: Violent storyline which involves such concepts as murder, terrorism, and such.
Please note that these are not my views, but simply a condensation of the service I believe these people are trying to provide. Some of the items do contain information that might not be known to the average consumer blinded by marketing blitz. All it's trying to do is help people weed out violent content from their christmas tree. It's merely a grass-roots anti-violence/marketing violence to young children campaign.
I disagree wildly with some of their picks, but at least they're providing another side to corp-spin. (Oh yes, a game where the objective is to maul 100 people in a row, while saying such lovely things as 'Your blood is on my fists' is PERFECTLY suitable for a hypertense 5 year old. While you're here, why not buy this Virtual Reality gear so they can act out all of the violence they're already vicariously enjoying?)
Some parents don't have time, sadly, to investigate gifts. And if a compelling reason to *not buy* something does not present itself quickly, they may just purchase something that they will end up disapproving of in the long run.
Personally, I don't think video games are even that suitable of a gift for little kids, but that's just me. I also don't think television is suitable for little kids, though it's less to do with violence and more to do with the insipid nature of most comment.
Anyhow, stop laughing at these people. They're fighting against a multi-billion dollar marketing machine that is impinging upon their ideas of morality. Remind you of anything?
-l
This is nothing more than the continuing efforts of the Utopian tree huggers trying to tell you how to raise your kids. I am sorry, but if my child gets a video game that depicts violence for X-Mas, first it is my decision as to whether they keep it or not, and second, if they go out and start commiting acts of violence against society, there was a serious problem before the game ever made it to the house.
When are people going to stop trying to blame everyone else for their childs problems. I get so sick of the "blame game" that has infected society.
Prime example, Andrea Yates. I have heard more people state that her husband or her doctor are responsible for her acts....Hello...I don't think either one of them were at the house when she decided to drown her kids. Same rule applies to everyone else. Your kids are your responsibility, not the governments, not society.
Stand up and face the fact that if your child is F*@ked up, it is your fault. Maybe if you spent some time with them instead of working 80 hours a week, you would know what kind of person they are, and be able to raise them to be a responsible member of society.
They tell me I cannot punish my child because it will scar them for life. I would much rather have a child with a sore ass than have a monster who has no respect for themselves, let alone other people.
Having received twelve years of Lutheran education, I know very well the enormous dichotomy between the Humanist belief in the basic goodness and perfectability of humans and the Christian belief in the basic worthlessness and hopelessness of humans without Christ. Humanism stresses that humans are fundamentally good and can work to improve themselves physically and intellectually. All humans can rely on is their intellect and strength. Humanity's ability to think can solve all its problems. I suppose that humanism can be summed up best as a belief in the supreme self-sufficiency of humans, the belief that all that we are is all that we need.
However, Christianity teaches something very different. Indeed, a search for "Christianity and Humanism" on the Internet will reveal just how strongly some Christians object to and oppose humanist values. Fundamentalist Christians believe that sin had doomed humanity, that it was lost and we could do nothing about it ourselves whatsoever. Jesus Christ came to be a surrogate sacrifice for the sins of humanity because humans by themselves were inadequate.
Lutheranism especially is opposed to humanist values. One of the fundamental dogmas of Lutheranism is the rejection of "Good Works" as a means for salvation. Good works if a common phrase in Lutheran dogma and it essentially means any good act that humans are capable of doing. The best example of it would be Mother Teresa. Most mainstream Christians would assume she is in Heaven because of all the good that she did, or maybe for her complete rejection of materialism. However, if Mother Teresa didn't really believe in Jesus Christ as her savior, she would be in Hell despite all of her good works. Wait, you say. Isn't believing in Christ a deliberate act? No, Lutherans say, because it is the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost that makes you believe in Jesus Christ. So even ability to decide to believe is taken form us. This is the exact opposite of the self-sufficiency of Humanism. Christianity is characterized more by absolute self-inadequacy, at least concerning spiritual matters.
Than, you illiterate boob.
A few people here have said that they'd never let a ten-year-old play Doom or Metal Gear Solid 2, let them watch gory movies, or let them play with some of these toys. Try to think of your own life and get some perspective. Was your TV viewing limited to Jesus Christ's Bible Adventures when you were ten? Do you owe your current well-being to how sheltered you were as a kid, having not seen a gun fight on TV until you were old enough to drive, and having not even HEARD of sex until you were no longer jailbait?
Personally, I don't think you do. I think you played Wolfenstein 3D and Doom when you were younger. I think you watched a few horror movies in your pre-pubescent days. I think you even hid a Playboy under your bed, or at the very least made regular visits to Playboy.com when you were twelve. And I think you certainly watched a popular kiddie show or two as a kid, and bought lots of action figures for it, too. You had G.I. Joe toys, or a Leonardo figure, or a ghost from Ghost Busters, or a big toy of the Yamato... you had those, or something very much like them. And you're fine, aren't you? In fact, you know an entire generation of people that's fine, multiple generations in fact.
Try to think of how YOU were raised and what YOUR life was like before you tell people that it's wrong for a ten year old to play Quake 3 or watch a violent movie. Stop listening to the endless stream of propaganda and actually take some time to think for yourself. These people think that they can successfully force their illogical bullshit on others if they yell loud enough and keep repeating it endlessly. Don't let them do that. Think for yourself. Maybe you'll still agree with them after you take that time to think... but I don't think you will. Because I think your life is a text book case of how to warp a child and "turn their heart dark", but somehow, by the same improbable miracle that 99% of all other people experience, you turned out fine... because this "violence desensitizes children" thing is bullshit.
And there's no way in Hell you didn't watch Looney Toons when you were a kid. There just isn't.
The lamest toys for 2001.
I don't let my kids have any toys that involve guns. Not because I'm a gun-hating peacenik; not because I'm a reactionary religious drone. I'm (emphaticaly) neither of the above. What I /am/ is someone who expects someday to own, and to teach my children to use those firearms safely and responsibly. I don't want them *ever* to think of a gun as something one plays with, even in pretend. I want them to always remember guns are deadly tools that should be taken very, very seriously.
--
CPAN rules. - Guido van Rossum
I requested that they add Barney and Teletubbies to the list of dangerous products. Of course I didn't give my real name, but that's beside the point. If they have nothing better to do with their time than play video games, I'll give them a few emails to go through.
First off, I agree in many ways that the site's intentions are right. How many parents would really let their five your old just learning to read play with games like Doom or Mortal Kombat? I know we all pretty well grew up with them so we'd try and point out to our kids that those games are out of date and far better ones are available :). But additionally, and seriously, we'd also make them wait till they were a bit older and understood the world around them better. We'd wait till their older to let them play violent games as well. For the same reasons we don't show our kids gory horror flicks at that age, we'd wait till they were mature enough to deal with what they were wathcing/playing as nothing more than make believe.
The site also lists off a large number of studies linking violent game playing with increased aggression in children. Here is where I start to get my back up. I wish that people running sites like this would remain content without citing every study under the sun. As I said above I agree with them on informing parents about the dangers of letting young impressionable children from playing with violent games,toys,etc. But if you take a look at the "mothers story" and "research" sections the bias goes up against violence in media for kids of non specific age. Basically stating the same old reteric about playing violent games makes people violent. This is a perversion of the results of the studies that are quoted.(Though I do believe the studies to have had a certain amount of bias towards expected outcomes, but that's another matter) The studies simply link watching violent media with increased aggressive behaviour. I feel that a very important control variable is missing from all of these studies. How many studies do similar research on fans and players at sporting events? Are there more fights in kids walking out of a movie theater or kids leaving the high school football game they just lost?
Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
/.'s lousy story choices before, but I mean, come on. Maybe I'm not the best journalist and maybe I didn't put all those articles in the proper categories, but I didn't see even similar articles make their way through. And then there's this. Wow. Scary. People acting stupid. That's original.
* 2001-10-27 21:34:23 FBI wants to change the achitechture of the intern (articles,usa) (rejected)
* 2001-11-01 15:49:01 ID Card proposial sneaked into law at last minute (articles,usa) (rejected)
* 2001-11-14 17:14:45 Airports attempt to censor news about crash (articles,censorship) (rejected)
I've never really complained about
And that should be "FBI wants to change architechture of the internet."
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Here's a news flash for the misguided politically-correct won't-somebody-please-think-of-the-children crusaders out there: it's not Congress's job to raise your children, it's not the toymaker's job, and it's not the school system's job -- it is your job. Furthermore, it's not your job to tell me how to raise *my* children.
If your children are fscked-up violent sociopaths, don't blame TV or video games -- BLAME YOURSELF. Electronic babysitters are no substitute for spending time with your children and teaching them how to be decent human beings. It is your responsibility to be a role model and to set a positive example for your kids. If you do not teach your children the difference between right and wrong and the difference between fantasy and reality, don't be suprised when they have trouble making those distinctions. If your children think that violence is an appropriate way of resolving their problems, it's your fault for not teaching them differently.
If you are too busy or self-centered to make your family your absolute number-one priority, do the world a favor and get a vasectomy or tubal ligation.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
I went to school in Bahrain , at age 6 i was taught to field strip AK 74 assault rifles as well as make explosives.
Wanna know what i got for XMAS this year
perl -MIO::Socket -e 'IO::Socket::INET-new(PeerAddr="some.windoze.box:1
Playing is a natural thing for children to do, it helps them develop skills they will need as an adult.
Violent toys are sold because there is demand for them. Theres demand for them because young boys like playing in what the people who wrote this website would consider a violent way. They seem to be in denial of the fact the male children have natural tendancies towards violence (look at a school playground for an example of this). Buying nice fluffy non-violent toys for children will not change their natures.
Because we live in a civilised society that frowns on and punishes violence, by the time a male has reached adulthood they no longer express their aggression through physical violence. Of course, some people cannot control their aggression and become dangerously violent adults.
Violent children are not dangerous, violent adults are. Toys that have a violent theme do not turn children into violent adults, what does is an inabilty to accept the rules society imposes on our natures.
The people who wrote this website, it seems to me, are looking for a quick fix to the problem of a disruptive child. I believe they are deluding themselves - there is no substitute for real parenting.
NB Not sure if this applies to girls, having never been one, but I doubt that it does.
Well, call me crazy. I have been playing these games since I was 20 and I am 28 and I still love them. In fact, I remember seeing violence in these games helped me see human injuries (including a splattered brain) in numerous car accidents and not throw up.
Parental control is the key issue here.
Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!
Even worse is the crap quality of the negative responses. "If your children are jerks it's your fault, not the toys", "You should spend more time parenting and less time on this website." Unbelievable. Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?
But, of course, /. hypocrites know no reason. It's techno-libertarian free internet for me, but get your site off my internet for thou. I'm sure if the story had been "Open Source Community Develops User-Driven Database of Toy Ratings" you'd all be creaming yourselves about the power of Open Source.
....there will be MILLIONS of kids that get baseball bats, hockey sticks, golf clubs, tennis rackets, etc, etc... for Christmas this year. I bet I can do more damage with a golf club than with a copy of Metal Gear Solid 2. Another thing, I don't really think that video games should even be classified as a "toy" anymore. They're entertainment. You wouldn't let your 7 year old watch "Gatorbait" or "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" would you? Then why buy them Resident Evil or MGS2 when they are more violent than either of those movies. Not that I don't like violence or anything.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
(You'll have to excuse me, my morning caffeine hasn't kicked in yet so I'm cranky and opinionated...)
;P) I actually have a couple Gundam models gracing my desktop, I can't really see how they're any different from non-fictional military hardware...
Okay... This is one of the dumbest things I've read all week. And that's saying alot since I've been doing a lot of Microsoft-related reading...
First off, here's something no one seems to have noticed, these folks have the Japanese to blame for 7 out of the 12 items, or atleast the shows/games these are merchandise of... (Whether it's intentional, or simply the price to be payed for making all the good games/anime, who knows...)
About the Video Games:
I think at this point, it's safe to say that if playing Doom and Mortal Kombat turned all the kids that played them into homicidal maniacs, we'd be in a lot of trouble right now. I happen to like Doom and Mortal Kombat (Though, I'm much fonder of Half-Life and Soul Calibur these days), but you don't see me running around dismembering people.
About the models:
Would they complain if their kids wanted to build a model of a REAL weapon? (Battleship/fighter plane/tank/Little Johnny's DIY Tac Nuke
In Closing (And more or less covering what I missed):
I think the poeple who are worried about the negative influence a TOY has on their kids need to keep their over-active imaginations in check. Besides, many of these toys are a little on the expensive side (for a kid), wouldn't the parents have to buy them in the first place? I think they can use their own good judgement in that endeavor.
Thanks for not instantly pulling my account for such a blatent waste of bandwidth, lol ^_^
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I did read the suggested games and found their "why we chose this product" to be ridiculous. The descriptions in the suggested fields are very lovingly coddled and smoothed and fluffy, whereas the "dirtydozen" are written sharply with short, quick sentances to make the reader feel uncomfortable.
BUT, then again, mothers through-out the centuries have been trying to "mother" their boys to make them soft and caring (and we do indeed hope that young men will treat their loved ones this way), whereas a boys father has been pulling the other way, to make them 'rough-and-ready' (and shouldn't they be ready to defend their family, state and country if need arises?)
Why we chose it: These costumes allow children to become heroes themselves, and act out their own scenarios. Young children love dress-ups?and these are very well made. Children can spend many happy hours pretending to be a fireman? or just walking on the moon.
I do ask you, though, check out the descriptions on the top two suggested on that list--the ones with costumes to pretend to be a fire-fighter, police-man, or astronaut. Then tell me why they didn't list a policeman's job in their description? Could it be they wanted to gloss over the violent nature of that job? (I wonder what they would think of their kids playing "Cops-and-Robbers"??)
For the rest of you out there with the I grew up on Doom and Im OK lines, you arent. Think about that next time you think how cool it would be if you could pop that guy and get away with it.
Sure, I think that a seed of evil will always be in people. Its the way humans have succeeded through natural selection (by the kill or be killed attitude). I may think about doing harm to someone else when they get on my nerves, but there is a control mechanism there that stops me from doing it.
If you are arguing to get rid of all external violent influences because some people don't have that control, then IMHO
nothing usually agrivates me more than people who protest against violence. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the children become a focused military force. We should start training them while they are young like in Ender's Game.m l_20_2001-2002.html">Here is the list for what they thing are best toys</a>
<a HREF="http://www.lionlamb.org/Top_20_2001-2002.ht
reading through it reminds me of the toys I DIDN'T want when i was young. I grew up with they kind of toys that are listed in the most dangerous toys list, and look at how i turned out. I wonder if her children hate her or not, or are they the same kind of mindless zombie she is.
Instead of puling this "We mustn't let kids know violence" attitude which does nothing, we should instead teach them how to use violence responsibly. It is just like those people who keep trying to say that we shouldn't drink beer ever in our lives or eat red meat or what ever the hell they like to protest these days.
PC boomer parents trying to prevent anything from happening to anyone
How could they not be? - look at that spooky font (Matisse ITC) they used! You know those toys have to be just evil if they're described in a font with so many scary, pointed edges and planes in need of antialiasing. Oooh. *cringes for effect*
Luckily, you can still get GTA3 for your precocious pre-teen child. This will help teach them many life lessons. For example, that working with the mob will only end up badly since at some point they will turn on you and try to kill you, so you should proactively kill them first. Or that, after having sex with a hooker to make yourself stronger, you should beat her into a bloody pulp with a baseball bat and take your money back.
Christmas, Chanukah, and Festivus are all around the corner, so don't wait. Pick up a copy now!
-- Hobbits suck!
I agree with you that this isn't about banning toys. But it is more than just a list of toys that parents might want to be wary of. What they want to do, is stop these toys from being marketed to children.
You will notice the recommended ages of these toys. I think the problem is not necessarily the toys themselves, but the age group of children that they are marketed towards. I don't really watch much TV, so I don't know if there are advertisements for these toys. But, if they are being advertised during shows for young kids, I would have to agree that it should be stopped.
That being said, ultimately, it comes down to one thing. Parents being involved in their childrens lives. There is no better safeguard than that. I don't think a lot of these toys should be marketed towards children, but when it comes down to it, the responsibility lies with the parents. Parents can't rely on government legistlation to do their parenting for them. If you want to prevent your children from having these toys, then do it. Don't rely on somebody else to do it for you.
Is this list condemnation or praise. Most of the "Why we chose it" paragraphes make the toys sound pretty cool. Just take a look at the entry for "Commandobot3", and think like a six year old, or twelve or, um forty year old. Or the entry for
"Mech Warrior, 'Shadow Cat'" which teaches boys and girls the difference between Civil and Mechanical Engineering, befor they go to College.
I gather that this is some Christian org (lionlamb). Well I'm a Bible in your face Christian, and I don't get what they are trying to say.
Now before you start complaining "But they didn't mean that kind of dangerous," I know what they meant. They meant "violent and potentially psychologically damaging to innocent young children." Now, if this is what parents are most concerned about these days, then either the world is a whole lot safer now than it was a few years ago, or those parents are unfit to raise a child. I'm sure there are many other toys out there that could physically hurt a child (if there aren't, I propose creating a small metal baseball bat and calling it the "Big Brother Basher"), and those are the toys I would consider "dangerous." If you don't want your kids exposed to violence and need someone to tell you that stuff with guns is violent, perhaps it isn't the toys that present the most danger to your kids.
Moving on to the humor side:
A series of plastic action figures based on the violent anime cartoon program Dragon Ball Z.
There's violence in that show? I admit that I don't follow the show, but I've flipped through it several times (some in an attempt to understand the appeal), and the characters are always either standing around talking, flying, staring at each other, or all blurred in scenes that resemble bizarre mating rituals. If anything, I'd be worried about kids being exposed to too much stupidity from that show, not to mention the promotional material for the toys: "front kicking action!" "side kicking action!" "double punch action!" Was this stuff written by people who make lesbian porn action figures or something?
Pilate was washing his hands of the whole affair. It was a symbolic guesture, there was no blood involved.
Solomon commanded the baby should be cut in half to get a reaction from the mothers. The baby was never harmed.
For some REAL biblical violence, try Judges 4:21, where Jael uses a hammer to drive a tent stake through the head of a sleeping Sisera, pinning it to the ground! That's good reading there.
Read a good book lately?
Seriously, I thought with a name like LambLion they were talking Lamb Chops Safron or something delicious like that. Not a bunch of winers worried their kids weren't doomed to build a Maginot line like the French.
Hello! We're at war here. I want my kid to be able to fight and defend my family when I am unable, and disabled from CTS.
... Hillary Rosen declared the iPod the year's most dangerous toy.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
You remember when the most dangerous toys were actually, you know, DANGEROUS, like lawn darts, and not just politically incorrect?
SOMEONE MIGHT CHOKE ON THAT DOOM CARTRIDGE, YOU KNOW.
I grew up on DOOM, DOOM][, Quake, TFC Half Life, Action Man, when you could get Tanks and APC's as accessories, so how come I'm not running around my old school killing all the pupals.
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
Pinball was a different situation. The City of Chicago banned it inside the city limits, largely, I think, because it was used for illegal gambling. Which was ironic because Chicago was the place where most of the machines were made (Chicago Coin, Chicago Dynamic Industries, etc.). Or perhaps that was why it had once gotten out of hand.
I grew up in the New York area where pinball was everywhere and considered quite harmless. Sure, if you "won" (mostly on skill) you got a free game for your quarter. But that wasn't really gambling. Indeed a good resort hotel was one where the kids' area (in those days, the early sixties, many resort hotels had supervised summer camp-like kids' programs; as a parent today, I miss them) had a *free* pinball machine (often just the door taken off the coin box). I played them the way kids today play video games. And the video game largely killed pinball by displacing it from arcades, though there are some diehard pinball fans and some machines still around.
The Lionandlamb listing is, as others have noted, a list of violent, not "dangerous", games and toys. A different list comes out every year of dangerous toys, things that can actually hurt your body. Check out http://www.toysafety.org . Most of these look innocent but have parts that come loose in the wrong way, or have some other non-obvious hazard.
I remember when this list contained toys that ware choosen for reasons like "contains small parts that children may choke on", or "rocket like projectile my puncture eye". not this politicly motivated tripe.
Besides, are you really that worried about your kids "shooting thier friends in the back with a chaingun while fighting caco-daemons"?
-RA7-
-----
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" - RWE
Can't teach our kids to be violent, but we can teach them distorted bodily images and eating disorders.
I started playing Quake when I was 9 or 10, sometime round there and I'm now 15 - I've played Quake 2, Quake 3, Team arena, half-life and a whole host of other brutal games, seen over 1000 porn films and have ADSL for just games and pr0n. Even when I was a little gun-toting quaker I still realised that it was only a game. But then again, maybe I'm not normal.
I really miss my old Micronaut toys. The rocket launchers on those things could fire small bits of plastic at near relativistic speeds.
You forgot the best part: the hookers.
If you're going to be elitist, it would help to be elite.
Danger does not necessarily mean physical harm. For example, you can call ideas dangerous. Given that, i don't think the title was a misnomer.
Either way, I will guarantee you if you ask one of the people who made this list if the toys are "dangerous", they will say "YES!".
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
This particular site doesn't offend me a whole lot. It looks like it's just an information site, as opposed to a site intended to remove these items from the market.
However, this did bring back a few memories of some parents' group attempting to block the sale of the Harry Potter novels. Their reasoning was along the lines that children would become desensitized to the coming of the anti-christ.
Now personally, I've been reading the first book, and I'm nearly halfway through it now. So far I have YET to see anything I'd prevent my child (if I had one, I'm not claiming to be a parent yet) from being exposed to. The movie had some scenes that were scary, but I never had any religious concerns over it.
Yet, if these people had their way, I would never have seen the movie! Now what right does anybody have to prevent me or my future children from seeing a movie? I wish I could remember who said it... something along the lines of "You are free to say whatever you want in this country, but you are not free from being offended by somebody."
Fortunately, they weren't successful in banning the books. However, I think that there are groups out there who can manipulate the media to prevent our basic freedoms. I'll give you an example: A child burns down his house. The mother blames Beavis and Butthead because the show had one of the characters set fire to something. Because of this, Beavis and Butthead is moved to 10 o'clock.
My freedom to watch Beavis and Butthead at 6pm was taken away by an overreactive parent who couldn't teach her kids not to play with matches. Let me ask you something lady, if Beavis and Butthead were such bad influences, how come we didn't have a rash of house burnings all over the country?
Anyway, back to the topic here. I'm ok with somebody setting up a site with reviews of toys, alerting me to the idea that they may rub against my parenting morals. I am a BIG FAN of parents getting to know what it is their kids are getting into. That is really important! The best thing to do, as a parent, is to teach your kids good common sense. If you don't want your kids to burn down the house, tell them that! My parents did. They still live in the house I grew up in! Don't turn off Beavis and Butthead. If a poorly animated cartoon like B&B can cause your kid to burn down the house, you have seriously failed as a parent.
One final note. As a parent's group, you have the right IMHO to NOTIFY parents of a potentially offensive piece of media or toy. But don't you EVER try to take my freedoms away with it. Just because it doesn't settle with your tastes, doesn't mean you should act like Kile's mom and try to stop its' release. It's none of your business if I play Doom or not, but I do appreciate you letting me know that it might not be good for my child.
"Derp de derp."
You know, back in the old days the 8 year old son took his trusty musket in the woods with his father so they could have meat once in a while. Now adays we're wasting our time trying to "hate proof" every little bit of media while over medicating our kids with crap that destroys their liver(aka ritalin) Every kid likes disgusting warfare. Hell, that's what being a kids about, not worrying about how grim warfare is and pretending about great glorious battles and victories. Let them play. Let a kid be a kid. There's plenty of time to worrying about the grim realties of life when you're old enough. Now granted, I'm not gonna let my kid watch hentai horror gore fests, but plastic is plastic and action figures are harmelss, just as long as nothing's sharp or swallowable(is that a word?)
I thought Christains loved war (ever read the Bible?), its just sex they couldn't stand.
Errrm...
I can assure you my Christian friends have no hang-ups about sex... The bible is full of it! Not to mention bestiality (Ezekeil 23:20)
Maybe its the American puritan spin on Christianity that is confusing you!
Please also accept that there are significant differences between people. Some people have a higher default tension level than others. This can be observed even before speech. To an extent, it can be observed in hospital nurseries, though interpreting this is, perhaps, speculative. Still, there is clear evidence of different reactions.
So it can't all be laid on parental training, either.
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I wanted to answer one other thing. A couple of people asked why this was /.'d in the first place. Initially, I think it was just because the violence in video games issue might be resurrected ad nauseum again. However I would like to bring up another reason why this is an important story.
This looks like the beginnings of using the web to improve morality in the world. If there are sites like this that will allow parents to be notified of potentially offensive toys/content, then maybe they will look to this to improve their parenting skills instead of trying to put a stop to the company producing them.
I see this as a potentially good thing, provided they don't break out of simply informing to attempting to rally people against things like this.
My advice to this site is: "Inform the people, but don't speculate about the reasons behind certain things. Don't draw silly conlclusions like DOOM promotes Satan worshipping, etc. The last thing we need is a bunch of ill-informed idiots trying to tell me that I'm going to hell over a game.
"Derp de derp."
...every year around this time we see lists of the most dangerous children's toys, but no one bothers with lists of the most dangerous *adult* toys?
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
the post on Slashdot is (see other posts). I see
nothing wrong with a compiling a list of games and
toys parents _might_ want to avoid. Afterall, it is much better that a private organization makes a suggestion rather than having the government force you to do it.
However, there
is a bunch of stuff I don't like on their page.
Even programs with some violence have redeeming
factors. As much as I dislike DBZ, the redeeming
factor is that Goku is able to turn his enemies
into allies. He also constantly rejects offers
for positions of power at the right hand of the
supervillain he's fighting - choosing to defend
his life and family on Earth.
Most of these parents say that violence doesn't solve anything, yet it is safe to assume that many
of them support our bombing the heck out of
Afghanistan.
Also, one of the pages linked to refers to school outcasts, like those responsible for school shootings, as "freaks" and seems to downplay the
teasing they got at school (he mentions it only once), primarily blaming Hollywood.
These groups of parents also grew up watching westerns. The Westerns they watched were certainly
not as violent as most R Rated movies today, but
they tended to depict Native Americans and Hispanics as violent criminals and savages.
Some of these groups bash today's programming while
defending the stuff they watched - saying that their generation didn't spawn any violent killers (which is false).
I think these groups do provide a quick fix. There is nothing wrong with trying to keep your 8 year old away from games like Metal Gear Solid 2. I wouldn't let a small kid touch it, that is for sure. But I think most people ignore that we put our kids under lots of stress. We put the pressure on them to do well in school and to excel in sports or activities so that they can build up a "resume" for colleges that sport a 4.5 GPA, activity in music, and a varisty sport every term, as well as charity work on the side. It seems to have gotten even worse since my days in High School. I've heard that now parents are starting to enroll their kids in cram schools even in elementary school! People have been using these for SATs (I did well on mine without attending one of these BS schools), but it is my understanding that cram courses for AP exams and such are getting popular.
It is no wonder why people apparently get addicted to video games, where they are placed in worlds where they are heroes, and don't really have to worry about making their parents proud of them, or getting a good grade.
I think we'll probably soon see an increase in teen suicides within the next 10 years due to all of this, but I won't be surprised when honor students who do badly on one test and get yelled at by their parents don't start pulling out weapons and firing.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Their logo shows a lion and lamb playing with blocks.
Do they have any idea what lions really do to lambs?
I'd think a nature video would be far more "dangerous" to a kid's psyche(i.e. not at all) than any of those toys.
Chomp, chomp, splatter, splatter.
Mmmmm. Lamb. It's what's for dinner.
These morons have to get out of their isolated lives and realize they're living in a cocoon. Real world sucks, ladies, and if you shield your kids from it and pretend we can all hold hands and sing kumbyah, your kids will be far more messed up.
Whats wrong with those people...these toys sound cool!
except for the power rangers one...thats lame.
Anyone know where I can get a Mr. Satan/Hercule "Action Figure"? One of the regular sized kind, not the little key chain guy. Mr. Satan is my favorite character on DBZ.
...compared to Bag-O-Glass.
;)
Isn't that what every parent is scrambling to put under the Xmas tree for their kids?
This post is nothing but a troll, submitted and then summarized by someone who didn't read the article. The Lion & Lamb Project, which posted the list, is an advocacy group against the marketing of violent entertainment to children. They're not trying to rid the world of first person shooters, they just want parents to be aware of what the game is presenting to the player. (Although I concede that if you can't figure it out from the box, a rating probably won't do much to help). They point out games which are, in their opinions misrated, and toys which tie in to games that may be inappropriate.
But, but, I should have the right to play Metal Gear!!
Look, they're not trying to take Metal Gear off the shelves, they just don't want action figures sold to kids. I think that's pretty reasonable. We don't put Jenna Jameson or Hannibal Lector action figures on the shelves of Toys R Us, why should we have action figures for the characters of M rated games?
But these toys aren't dangerous!!
The only place I saw the word "dangerous" was in Taco's summary. The site itself calls them "12 Violent Toys to Avoid," not "The World's Most Dangerous Toys Which Will Send Your Child To Hell!!!" In fact, Taco seems to be making a much bigger deal of this list than the actual website does; it's not directly linked from anywhere on the main page.
This has little to do with dangerous toys, even less to do with Q3 (except that Doom was made by the same company), and absolutely nothing to do with YRO.
--
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Toys don't kill people, people kill people.
For finding me these sweet K'NEX battlemech sets. Screw christmas, I'm getting the Timberwolf (the *right* name for a madcat :) ) for myself.
-- iCEBaLM
The way I explain it to my kids is:
You can't say that choosing to put such things into your mind is going to force you to do anything, and you can't say that taking in such things has no effect. The best you can say is that every thing you take in _has an effect_.
Damn, all that money wasted on sending me through Basic Combat Training for the US Army, and all they had to do was put us in a room with some toys and saturday morning cartoons.
I think that dropping a 10 ton anvil on Osama Bin Laden has some appeal...
Where's Buggs Bunny and Daffy Duck when you need them?
Only thing is that Osama would probabally bear a striking resemblance to Yosemite Sam.
"It is not true, for example, that "more than 3500 research studies have examined the association between media violence and violent behavior [and] all but 18 have shown a positive relationship." The source you cite for this assertion, ex-Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman's Teaching Our Kids to Kill, is not a scholarly work, nor does your Statement even transcribe Grossman's claims accurately. In fact, there are probably fewer than 300 empirical studies that try to measure the effects of violent media - with uneven and ambiguous results.
"Even more troubling than the AAP's factual inaccuracies are its overall distortions and its failure to acknowledge many serious questions about the interpretation of media violence studies. For example, correlations between aggressive behavior and preference for violent entertainment do not demonstrate that one causes the other. Laboratory experiments that are designed to test causation rely on substitutes for aggression, some quite far-fetched. Punching Bobo dolls, pushing buzzers, and recognizing "aggressive words" on a computer screen are all a far cry from real-world aggression.
"Some studies have found increased aggressive behavior among children after watching nonviolent programs such as "Sesame Street" and "Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood." Others have found "null" effects. Many studies that claim "positive" findings actually consisted of multiple subtests with divergent and ambiguous results. The researchers then manipulated the data, subdividing the categories of subjects in various ways until they found at least one "statistically significant" result."
Quoted from http://www.ncac.org/issues/aapviolenceltr.html
Tastes Like Chicken
Its quite clear that they have every right to raise their children how they see fit. If they want to help like-minded parents do the same, more power to them. Unlike PABBIS (the book banning people) they are at least not trying to impose their values on parents who feel that their children can handle violent games or movies without becoming violent themselves.
People have to get the idea that people are all different, and those differences are particularly important in childhood. Some children should not be exposed to violence because that will alter their behavior. Others can watch all the bloody movies they want and remain perfect angles. The same idea applies to books, dress, music, etc. A child's parents (most of them, anyway) know better than anyone else (including the parents of other children) what is and is not appropriate for their children. Let's leave the parenting to them, instead of having Congress or some stupid interest group interfering.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
IMHO, watching violence has no effect on me. But if you think you can watch a good porn and NOT BE EFFECTED...whew...that's not just foolhardy, it's plain crazy!
Metal Gear Solid 2 (which I finished this weekend and highly recommend)
I'm sorry, but I could not disagree more. Perhaps because I had the highest expectations for MGS2, but the original Playstation MGS was much better.
The standard gameplay is still good - sneaking around and stealthily taking out the guards. But then, so many things go wrong.
Firstly, you don't play as Snake after the first 20 minutes or so. I'd say half of Metal Gear is the character you play, and to not be Snake is simply lame. Worse, he's replaced with this whiny teenager with girl problems.
Secondly, the scope of Playstation version was much larger with several distinctly different levels. Most of the game is relegated to a montonous environment called "The Shell".
Finally, while the story of the Playstation version was um... ambitious, this game's story simply got out of hand. Through the window, utterly ridiculous. Making the problem worse was the fact that there were copious cutscenes. Don't get me wrong, I love cutscenes in games, but MGS2 wins the award of managing to turn me off. There would seriously be 5 minutes of gameplay and then 20 minutes of watching drivel.
If you do play the game, stick with that - playing. Just skip all the cutscenes and trust that you're not missing out. Then, you'll simply be dissappointed that the game's short and your character is annoying. But hey, the gameplay's good.
http://www.talknerdy.org
Robert Claypool
American society is set up so that everything important is too late. Things only go fast when it isn't important, which can make important even more urgent,
Play with what for thirty minutes and go blind? Oh...never mind...
I'm exactly the same way.
:) Nobody ever thinks about that possibility do they?
As a kid I spent countless hours running around outside, dodging imaginary bullets, making gun noises while pointing my little plastic toy guns at friends or imaginary bad guys.
And now I go deer hunting with my dad and I don't even get a kick out of shooting deer, I've actually never killed one for that matter.
The point is, just because kids play with so-called violent toys at children doesn't make them psychos. I think its their enviroment, or some sort of predisposition, chemical imbalance? I've seen so many insane kids that hit eachother with hammers that look so wired and disconnected because their parents feed them candy and french fries for every meal
Maaaark
Robert Claypool hackwrench@hotmail.com
Then all the stupid people would be dead
I get it now.
This list has nothing to do with toys being "dangerous"
Story Submitter: you've read more into the list than is actually there.
This list has no bearing on the saftey of the toys. Rather, it's a way for some bad parent to push their political agenda, porporting the site as a list of dangerous toys is irresponsible.
C'mon, Foam Missles?? What harm can those cause. Oh, yeh they've got some subconcious message to turn your kids into killing machines...
Right, and I'm the president of the united states.
"Violent" games and toys have nothing to do with real violence. Suprise! It's bad parenting. That's right! There's a plethora of irresponsible lazy parents.
If you actually teach your kid how to behave properly, then you have nothing to worry about.
Rant Over!
The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout
Can someone explain to me why this is posted as under YRO? The group publishing this list is in no way tryingt oundermine your rights. They are trying to provide parents with a guide to what there is out there that they may or may not want there children to have. This is not a crime and in no way affects the average slashdotter. Unless the average slashdotter is a high school student living at home.
-> Capt Cosmic <-
Robert Claypool
That boys and girls get treated differently from birth
http://www.sociumas.lt/Eng/nr14/lytys.asp
#1 on the list is NOT Metal Gear Solid 2, it is an ACTION FIGURE from Metal Gear Solid 2. Don't fear for your safety - the game MGS2 will not cause you bodily harm. Well, not most people anyway.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
I think the hair-trigger threshold that most people around here have for unleashing verbal abuse at innocuous sites whose opinion differs from theirs constitutes its own dataset about the desensitizing effects of violence on children.
Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!
Well that's not all though. This same organization is lobbying the US gov't to actually STOP production of these toys. No one on slashdot is advocating shutting this site down. NOW who's afraid of a different opinion?
Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?
Yes. And to be honest, I'd much prefer a parent actually LOOK at a toy and think FOR THEMSELVES about the good/bad qualities of it. Much better than simply reading a list of someone else's opinions and taking action on that, when you don't even know if this someone else shares any of the same values that you do.
Maybe you miss the point of why so many people find this scary. It's not a differing opinion that bothers me - it's a differing opinion forced down my throat that does. And of course using a website as an excuse to be a bad parent.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Robert Claypool
It doesn't seem like their page tells you much more that can be gleaned from the box.
when they listed things like toy guns, toy knives, skateboards and rollerskates. Video games? Dangerous? only if you pull out the cartidge or cd and fling it across the room hitting baby sister in the eye.
Below is stolen from an e-mail signature:
"Video games don't affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids we'd all be walking around in dark rooms eating magic pills while listening to repetitive electronic music," Karen Price, Nintendo Representative.
The article is misleading; these are not dangerous toys, only toys that someone considers politically incorrect. Nothing is mentioned about any specific dangers that the toys present, only that the toys have links to violent videogames and television shows.
;)
Some of them shoot foam missiles; big deal! I think that a foot high robot that fires at room intruders is rather endearing.
Dangerous toys are things with parts that small children can choke on, stuff up their nose, or otherwise injure themselves with: sharp corners, fast-moving, massive projectiles, etc. Also, things containing dangerous substances, such as lead-based jewelry for children.
There is little connection between these properties and violence. Even in the category of fast moving things that can injure: this area is probably dominated by sporting equipment. Better not be getting your kid that hockey stick!
They're arguable trying. Here's a link to their testimony to Congress. They're apparently trying to get Congressional support so that action figure tie-ins from M-rated video games don't get marketed to children.
All they are "imposing" on anyone is a little common sense. If the game isn't appropriate for children, then toy tie-ins probably aren't either. Their "lobby" only imposes upon eight-year-olds.
I say, to them, "Keep up the good work".
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
Let's look at it from another perspective:
Human interaction is based on a balance of aggression and submission. A person with zero aggression goes no where in life, and is a complete mess. I'm not talking about people who don't engage in fisticuffs, I'm talking about mindset. As mammalian omnivores, we have a natural bit of aggressive tendency built into our brains. It's natural!
What do all omnivorous and carnivorous mammals do as young? They play-fight. Puppies chew on each other. Lion cubs pounce at each other. Humans play tag, wrestle, play football, and now video games.
There is a reason for this! Fight-play helps excercise those tendencies, as well as release built-up urges. It also teaches consequences! When wrestling, kids get hurt... they realize if they push too hard, or get hit too hard, it is unpleasant. When playing a deathmatch, you die. And you die again. And those around you die. And it's bloody. It may not hurt, but the use of simulated weapons in these games yields simulated death. I'd worry a lot more about kiddie FPS games that don't have death resulting from the use of guns, but rather bloodless crap... what does a kid learn from it?
Raise your Waterboys and Watergirls. When your kids blow up and realize they can't handle their anger and instincts, it's going to be a lot more dangerous than a little desensitization.
It's not so much that the toys are dangerous or should be avoided. If anything a parent should be aware of what they are buying their kids, or what the kids are buying themselves. Talk to your kids. Ask them if they understand that killing is only okay in a game and not in "real life." Just do a reality check on your kids and be a part in their lives.
Like most people, I don't plan on using the TV as a babysitter. Since they are my kids, I will try to monitor what they watch and when I know what they can deal with and understand, only then will I move from the "kiddie" shows to something stronger in content.
Granted, I don't think that every 8 year old should be listening to "Kid Rock" or someone like him, but if I feel that my child can understand and deal with the content of the music then that is a choice I will make.
It's the same for toys. If I feel my child has a firm grip on what is right or wrong and was brought up with a good set of values, then I'll let him/her play with these toys.
IMHO the real point is to be a parent.
Just my take on the matter.
Goran
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
For the longest time I thought the Landover site
was for real. After conversing with Christian
zealots in the past, nothing on Landover seems all
that over the top to me. As for the Lion and the Lamb, it's nothing more than nervous handwringing by a bunch of over protective Christian moms.
While many here see it as pathetic and overreacting to spurn many of the toys they list, that does not mean you should then turn coat and act in the same manner. Well, shouldn't is qualified here, as 'shouldn't if you are a logical and rational person not prone to fits of hypocricy and childish reactions to the outside world."
I personally know a fair share of children that use several of these toys (and many other related types). They are very well behaved children, are very curteous and frankly have more honor and respect than the majority of adults I have come across. While I do not agree with the people of this site, I respect their rights to form and voice their own opinion. However, I must agree (and for more reasons than they imply) on their point about McFarlane's quote and therefore his target audience. I think it is foolish and very slimey (read: lawyerish) to specifically target children with a merchandise item from something that is touted as 'mature'. And yes, I am aware of the stupidity and inconsistency of the various entertainment rating boards and their systems.
On a side... I am against market targeting in the first place, especially with anything in the entertainment industry. Just make a game, tell a story, entertain... don't try and dumb it down to achieve the largest market you can think of. Hmmm, I am now thinking of SW Episode I... I wonder why my brain put that in there? :) Just thinking about the POTENTIAL for that movie, but 2 months befor seeing all the reports of the crap ready to be released (and that stupid theatrical preview with the 'cute' crap about Jar-Jar and 'making a new friend' done by a narrator that sounded like a narrator for Fisher Price... I had a bad feeling at that point and should have not been so surprised or disappointed therefore... oh well. Maybe episode 2 will be good?
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
The action figures have punching and kicking action. So? What the hell else do little kids do with action figures? I have never seen a kid make his GI Joes hold hands and take a long walk in the park... they fight.
And Super Strret Fighter Turbo? Please. Show me a kid that can jump six feet in the air and throw a blue fireball, and I'll agree that "Games are bad, mmm-kay?"
HADOKEN!
SIGFEH
so I can keep dinner guests out of the computer room!
Kevin
"It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in" O. Nash
I'm a parent of a 4 year old girl who is in love with the Power Puff Girls. This is a violent show depicting little girls with very bad attitudes beating up monsters. I let her watch this for a very simple reason.
I don't want my kid to be a fucking cream puff. The world is a tough place filled with "monsters" who crash planes into buildings, molest little kids and shoot each other in the streets. The more we shelter our children from the realities of this world the less in touch they will be with it when they need that focus the most.
Look at all of these people protesting our action in Afghanistan. These were sheltered brats raised by baby booming ex-drug addicts who believed in turning the other cheek even if it meant the lives of thousands of people.
Look at our grand parents! These folks weren't sheltered from the ugliness of the world and because of that they kicked hitlers ass and almost no one protested the fact.
I'm sorry but I talk to my kid about the bad people in the world. I tell her it's ok to stand up for what you believe in and fight for what's right. I'm proud that my daughter has a deep understanding of what's wrogn with the world and certain people in it. She's only 4 but she can pick out who the bad guy in a movie is in a heart beat and knows why (s)he is bad.
She loves her Barbie computer games, she isn't brainwashed by violence on TV because like a good father I watch what she does and talk about it with her. That's more than my parents did for me.
This website seems to think anyone that watches TV will end up like Jim Carey in "The Cable Guy". Perhaps some people do, but it's not the TV's fault. My bet is they have a deeper phsycological problem that would manifest in any number of other ways had TV not been there.
I grew up watching the A team, Magnum PI and all the other great shows of the 80's. I had my run in with problems growing up, but they were my problems not subliminal messages sent to me by the big bad TV stations.
Let's all try to take some responsibility for our own actions shall we?
Sure it's still a violent game, but most people don't kill each other in boxing matches (although an ear could get bitten), and how many parents enroll their kids in Karate or Tae Kwon Do these days? Thos are self defense, but they still have sparring matches.
Sure, these parents are just advising each other on what not to buy, but imagine some kid wanting SF2 revival, and his parents (who are OK with boxing) will not buy it because they were misinformed by this website. I think they were exaggerating a little bit in most of these cases.
Just buy your kid an erector set or a chemistry set already! A chemistry set could do some real damage.
These toys are perfectly fine! Buy your kid a .22 rifle or a Benjamin air rifle! Get him a pack of BlackCats, give him green army men and a sackful of GI Joes. Maybe he won't grow up to be a pansy, grass-eating, tree-hugging, queer that chews on rocks and discusses politics when it comes time to defend America (or wherever) from a foreign threat. These also come from the people that believe spanking is bad. Give the boy a paintball gun and a mask give him a kick in the rump and tell him to give his war-cry.
I'm not a gun-waving member of the NRA - I'm just a realistic American. I don't even own a gun. I work in the IT field (but i do work for the DoD :o) - i just hate to see toys labeled as evil because they 'simulate' war. War is real. Better to play it out than keep it inside and act on it for real by going postal. (now there was a game that i'd label twisted)
Better yet, label toys that are dangerous and can break and hurt children - those are dangerous toys, not toys like K'Nex or Legos that allow you to build guns or tanks.
Some people... *shaking fist
That one really is dangerous, because if you buy it for your kid then all the other kids at school will beat him up for being the loser who's still in to Power Rangers.
Parents beware!
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
I've been playing doom and the like for years, yet why is it that time I tried skeet shooting last year I couldn't hit anything? According to this country's moralists I should be a highly trained marksman on par with military elite and Mel Gibson.
Once these people have successfully lobbied to remove every toy gun or missile from the market, what will be the next consumer product to be axed in the name of "protecting our children"? Will we find ourselves banning action figures of policemen and soldiers because their duties imply the use of force?
I really don't have a problem with these people voicing their concerns. If like-minded parents don't wish to expose their children to the real world (ok, so robots with missiles and laser cannons aren't a reality YET) then that's their choice.
However, I do have a problem with these self-righteous groups making baseless claims about what these toys will do to unsuspecting, imprssionable children and passing it off as fact. I especially have a problem with them trying to get these products off the market (and trust me, that's what they're ultimately trying to do). They have no business trying to force people (by whining to pushover legislators) to buy only the toys that they feel are appropriate.
If these groups want to protect children, they should stick to the physically dangerous toys. Stop blurring the line between feel-good rhetoric and scientific fact, and let parents decide what to expose their children to.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
It Is Far Better To Leave Kids With No Option But To Act Out Aggression With Peers, Rather Than With Toys.
I Mean, DUH!
Edith Keeler Must Die
Why is this under Y.R.O.?
1) it's not online.
2) it's nothing to do with your rights.
A group of concerned people list toys they think are dangerous. Gee, that'll prevent me from buying them! It's dangerously curtailing my rights as a consumer! Oh wait, it doesn't prevent me from buying them, nevermind.
--Brent
Wake the fuck up. People kill people. Firearms are no more dangerous a tool than a table saw.
You! Come over here so I can saw your head off. Closer... Closer...
Get serious: a table saw is a tool for sawing stuff. Guns are a tool for shooting people. It's logical to argue that if people are allowed to carry guns, they are well prepared to defend themselves against those who have obtained guns illegally. It's simple. Personally, I'd like to see a system where you don't have to worry about that, and I don't think I could gun someone down even if they had a bead on my noggin with a big 'ol revolver. All this despite the fact that I've played more than my share of violent shooters.
Let's please not make the "guns are just a tool" argument.
As for the list: You'd think they'd list toys that can physically hurt children because of poor construction / engineering. "Maybe we shouldn't have gotten Johnny that Mr. Toolbox buzz-saw set. He really liked that pinky finger."
Karma: Chameleon (Mostly affected by the 1980s)
What about Boing 757, those can be pretty dangerous as well.
That there are websites out there like this to serve as a resource to parents who can't waste their precious time learning about what their kids are playing with!
What would we do without a wonderful resource such as "the lion and the lamb"? It makes me yearn for the days of the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) and Tipper Gore helping me know what music kids should listen to and what music will make them kill themselves and do drugs.
Because God knows there were no drugs being used before rock music!
My only hope is that some day there will be groups of concerned citizens like this to tell my children what to eat, because I beleive strongly that M&M's cause tooth decay, and you know that over 95% of serial killers have at least one cavity?!?
Hail Jesus!
second society
Wasn't that the beauty of the Internet? To give each and every person a place to express their opinions and ideas, regardless of just how silly it is?
Yes, and another part of the Internet's beauty is our ability, and opportunity, to openly mock their silliness. I find the people rampantly flaming slashdot for presenting this amusing tidbit (and face it, it is amusing to see self-righteous people in a tizzy) just as pathetic as the flaming of those individuals who, as others have quite rightly pointed out, are simply excersizing their own discretion and (at least for the moment) are not trying to enforce their views on the rest of us (yet).
Why did I add the comments in (parenthesis)? Because groups like this often start out as self-help organizations, then quickly grow into political forces which do try to impose their views on the rest of us. MADD comes to mind (Mother Against Drunk Driving, no relation to DAMM, or Drunks Against Mad Mothers[1]) as an example. Being against drunk driving is one thing, seeking more stringent punishments and more conservative definitions of being drunk another, and successfully lobbying for a drinking age of 21 years (even though our youung people can vote and serve in the military at 18) another still. They are a group who went far beyond mutual comfort and support, and then beyond simply lobbying against drunken driving, and have successfully lobbied to increase the drinking age to IMHO an absurdly high age (making it the most disregarded law in America I suspect). Many of them wanted to take it a step further (and have, at the local level), making entire communities and regions "dry." Talk about imposing one's word view on everyone else, willing or otherwise.
For these reasons, among others, I do find open mockery, resistence, and rebuttals to the views of any self-righteous group (even those I happen to agree with) to be both healthy and important. Even flames, if that is the only way an opponent is able to express theirself, much as I find flamage to be generaly unaesthetic. If only there had been similiar rebuttals presented against MADD before they single handed criminalized alcohol consumption for every adult in America between the ages of 18 and 21.[2]
[1]DAMM is a joke, AFAIK there is no such organization in reality
[2]Excluding military personnel, who can drink on base after enlistment (but not in civilian bars AFAIK).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Yes, because the soldier doll from a mature video game is somehow magically different from the soldier doll from a Saturday morning cartoon. Conversely, if someone makes an amateur "porn" film utilizing Barbie dolls, does that suddenly mean stores should drop them from their shelves?
Furthermore, given that eight-year-olds aren't in the business of marketing toys, they're imposing on other people as well.
>actually suggesting that gunplay should be on the curriculum alongside maths and history
Sure, it used to be why not now? Rifle and Pistol Team was great fun. Odd, I don't remember any armed assaults on schools happening back then. Did you skip that history class?
>I suppose that having guns on the premises would make it easier for the Columbine kids to go on a rampage
Sure it would, except they probably wouldn't do such a thing knowing that their targets can shoot back.
>why not give each child his or her OWN gun
Good idea! We already give out condoms, why not guns? Hell, Every child in my family has their own, gun. I'll let them get their own condoms.
>it'd put a stop to playground bullying
Now that you bring it up, I don't think bullies were so much of a problem back when "gunplay" was on the curriculum along side math and history.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Completely ignoring the troll, I got a minor laugh from the title, because I read it, "What are you fucking, stupid?"
Virg
Robert Claypool
The problem is educating children. DBZ has a lot about teaching children how to fight and if you pay attention Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are pretty nice children who know how to fight.
The point of the website appears to be to get people who don't have children upset about what is being marketed to children, which would account for quoting the boxes and stuff.
Jumpin` Jake the Ferocious Meat eater:
Reason: The model comes with plastic replicas of chicken legs and raw steak. He is also equipped with a bib that says 'Meat is good', and a model fork who's pointy tines are covered with red paint.
Lucky Louie the Lawyer:
Reason: He is wearing a three piece suit, which could influence tender minds into thinking that all conservative people are evil. We feel that if the figure was wearing tan pants and a sweater vest then he would be appropriatly reflecting that lawyers are loose-moraled hippies.
Lionel's Big Boy Train:
Reason: The little H scale people that come with the set are not balanced correctly, and when placed with their bases 1/2 overlapping the crossties of a train track have a 50% chance of falling onto the track. We can't imagine the terror a 2 year old might have if they see one get hit by the train.
Click'em(tm) Blocks
Reason: On the box depicting two pre-schooler children playing with the blocks, one of the frames showes a child with blocks in his hands. His arm is cocked back as if he is about to throw the handful of blocks at the other child. [don't let that cheribic grin fool you, he listen's to satan.] We can't allow our children to learn such a lession.
Acme Box of 250 Toothpicks:
Reason: They are awefully sharp and pointy. The box has explicit directions for use that involve inserting the small object into your mouth. A Child could actually READ these instructions, and try this at home - causing severe injury to themselves.
Reason: Everything
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
While I wholeheartedly agree with you folks who point out that games like Doom and Quake should not be for 10-year-olds, I don't agree with the review site that come down hard on these TOYS simply by association with violence, COMPLETELY neglecting to check out the storyline/theme behind the game/TV series.
:)
---
Two examples.
Recently...
"Metal Gear Solid" has a HEAVY anti-war theme, and reminds the gamer that war is about killing people, and that it's often filled with sadness. I was already an adult when "MGS" came out, but I've watched 10-12-year-old kids play "MGS" and after a while, I've seen them actually feel sorry for the genome soldiers, and they start avoiding them in-game instead of just mindlessly killing them. When asked about the game, they've all asked me things like, "Wow, war is sad, isn't it?" "Boy, being a soldier is a tough job."
---
For the story about when I was a kid... "Gundam" is, and always has been about war, and "...why people fight each other, when they can understand each other."
In virtually every Gundam, a early-teens child gets involved in battle. It tears his/her family apart, tears countries apart, friends and loved ones sacrifice their lives for each other, etc, etc... It reminds us that soldiers are people too, and most would much rather prefer peace if they had a choice. I was only 7-8 when I watched the 1979 series, but I vividly remember the scenes where Amuro had to fight in the Gundam against people he befriended, respected, and sometimes even loved. If you watch ANY of the Gundam series, you will hear over and over -- "Why must we fight? Why can we not simply understand each other?" (yet the main character has to pull the trigger to shoot down the enemy in order to protect his loved ones)
Was I scathed for life? Did I grow up violent? Heck no... I grew up respecting the men and women who fight for our country. I grew up understanding that much sadness comes from conflict. I grew up believing, to this day, that people can get along if they try. And yes.. I try. Thank you, Gundam.
So... while I can't expect the "toy review site" to put THAT much time into their review, I truly wonder if they've actually given these game/anime titles a chance. Heck, if you don't have time, at least go watch "Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket" -- that'll take all of 180 minutes or so to watch, and you'll have a VERY good idea what "Gundam" is about, and why there is such an insane following in Japan.
What I'm just saying is... take these review sites with a BIG grain of salt, and always check out things for yourself. Quake/Doom for 10-year-olds can't be good, but to blindly say "anything with guns is bad" is really short-sighted.
er.. sorry for the mini-rant..
in your children?
It opens them up to enslavement, that's what.
That would not explain why crime drops after concealed carry laws are passed. Given two states with similar or at least comparable crime rates, when one allows concealed carry, crime drops. It does not drop a comparable amount in the other state.
Nor would it explain why crime drops after a case where someone successfully defended against an assault by shooting and killing the attacker is broadcast all over TV and radio.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Most Dangerous Toys in Afghanistan:
(1) Daisy Cutter
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Wow! And until now I had no idea what I was gonna get my neice for christmas! That's a cool collection of toys!
The thing that really pisses me off are the simpering brainless F*ucks that feel they need the Gov't or some political action committee to protect them from every sharp corner, dip in road, anything that could even remotely be thought of violent, item on this planet. Just when did we as a people suddenly become such pussies that we can't cross a street without the Gov't or some PAC to step in and help us?
Just where did we suddenly feel the need to have everything pureed, filtered, watered-down and spoon fed us?
I grew up with cap pistols, GI Joe, making my own fireworks, watching Vietnam brought into the home on the nightly news, real guns in the home, deer hunting, fishing, camping, playing Doom, Wolfenstien and I still have yet to end up in a clock-tower with a rifle.
When did we go from a nation built on strength and a "can do" attitude to "save me from myself"?
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
Robert Claypool
and dog fighting. For the most part the trainers care about the pokemon and the pokemon AREN'T animals. P.S. I've been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome too.
Robert Claypool
problems, Some of them use guns as part of a much larger solution to very specific problem and some don't use guns at all.
OK, great... Have you seen combat?
I served in the Gulf War as a gunner (20 years old) on a Bradley fighting vehicle. I destroyed Iraqi T-72s with my TOW and BMP fighting vehicles with the 25mm chaingun. I also killed infantry with the 7.62mm machine gun and chaingun.
How do I feel about killing? It was my duty; have no remorse. If I didn't kill them; they would have killed me.
That was the battlefield. I left the service after the war and have been a civilian for 10 years. I don't have any rage. I don't have flashbacks. I don't dream about Iraq (sand storms sucked). I don't think about killing people. I'm not a crazed veteran running around with assault rifles. Hell, I don't even own a gun.
The point is that these self-righteous idiots are claiming all sort of nonsense of how we're raising a society of killers. Last time I checked, most middle-class kids don't run around with pistols, knives, and chains killing innocent bystanders because they played too much GI Joe or DOOM. Now, the inner-city is another issue and the violence isn't because of toys. More complex problems than that.
Super Street Fighter II Turbo Revival and Final Fight One..why were those games given E ratings?
Final Fight One I can understand..the violence is minimal, and coarseness is kept to a minimum(unless the prostitutes are in this version)
But SSF2TR(why can't Capcom keep things simple?)
receiving an E rating doesn't make as much sense. Street Fighter Alpha 3 for Playstation received a Teen rating. And it's not necessarily due to better graphics-check Tekken Advance, it's got a Teen rating too. While I disagree with some of the opinions of this lionlamb website, I do think it's valid to be concerned about inconsistent ratings. I think groups such as this one would be less likely to complain about those two games if they carried Teen ratings..but you never know..
Bottom line is, if there's a ratings system for video games, shouldn't it at least get things right?
One has to check the entire site before blasting it. Their goal (according to their site) is "to stop the marketing of violence to children", not physically dangerous toys.
Once that point is cleared up, it becomes a little more clear why they call these the dirty dozen. They don't claim that these toys shouldn't exist, or should be banned, just that they have been marketed to children when they shouldn't have, and that the companies doing this should be punished by consumer action.
and chaos may not even be the right word for it.
http://anarchism.sourceforge.com
I can't imagine too many people initially going to the site, or taking the content of the site too seriously; "oh, look honey, there's that toy that that web site said was bad, so we better not buy it for little Johnny"... yeah right.
:)
Then enter Slashdot.
Now the webmaster is looking at the site stats of hundreds of thousands of hits and is thinking "man! what a difference I'm making!". Little does he/she know that the general reaction is "geesh... what next!". Spurred on by this "success", they're already planning the next project.
For that matter, they could probably take their web logs showing the hits they are getting to some politician *spit* and show what a "great job" they're doing protecting the children of society (after all, lots of hits means it's working, right?), and get some federal funding to carry on the torch.
Oh joy.
$0.02 (CDN)
So I poked around their site a bit and found their Top 20 suggested toys for this fall.
#1 on the list was...
Handy Work Puppets
Description: Child-sized hand puppets in different skin tones representing a number of professions, including a fireman, police officer, doctor, astronaut, chef and artist.
If my parents had given me a Handy Work Puppet as a kid I would have beaten them over the head with it.
there real interesting reading at Gen 38 Sex and Violence
If you follow the main articles URL It says the "Top 12 Toys to avoid" then says Toys tied TO video games. So it is dealing with the actual toy itself.
I wrote the lionlamb people this email about ssf2tr..
Hi there,
I would like to make a couple of points regarding your Dirty Dozen entry for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Revival.
From the DD list:
'The "special moves" involved in playing this game have names such as "psycho crusher," "devil reverse," "head press" and "somersault skull diver," according to the directions.'
You've listed the special move names for a single character, who (as far as the game story goes) happens to be the evil dictator that the street fighters are trying to overthrow. It only makes sense that an evil character would have evil move names. Note that other characters have nonsensical special moves like "crazy buffalo", "yoga flame", "final atomic buster", "mexican typhoon", etc.
'Children who play the game hear characters say things like, "My fists will have your blood on them" or, "You are not a true warrior!"'
Children who play the game do not hear such things. No one hears them. You've listed a couple of quotes that are printed on the screen if the player loses a match to two certain characters.
'One version, called "survival mode," requires children to kill 100 people without stopping.'
Nothing in the manual or the game itself ask children (or anyone else) to kill their opponents. It's a martial arts tournament. When you defeat a character, the game says "K.O." which means knockout, not "they're dead".
Now, given all of these points, I still might not give this game to a first grader for christmas. However, by making the game sound worse than it is, and by making inaccurate, inflammatory comments like "the children hear things like 'my fists have your blood on them'", you are hurting the integrity of the Dirty Dozen list. The whole point is so that parents can make informed decisions about what toys they should or should not be considering this christmas.
I encourage you to make revisions to the SSF2TR entry so that parents can see the whole picture. (ie including the silly move names, removing the "children hear" bit, and change killing to knockout.)
BTW: I agree that knocking out an opponent is still violent - there's just no need to trump it up to killing.
It ain't easy to explain to your kid why Dragonball is a nasty, violent show, especially when all their peers wear the clothes, eat the cereal and play with the toys.
Unless you have a child, don't take part in this debate. Kids *do* react to TV violence, and at 14, you're too young for introspection.
Jan
They have a link to "Research". I read one of the papers and it is pretty weak - basically it rants about Columbine for a while, draws a statistical correlation between violent people and the desire to play violent video games, and ASSUMES from there that the games cause violent behavior.
Incoherent and Columbine based?
Hey, Taco, looks like Katz is moonlighting.
--saint
the only purpose a list made in this manner serves is to outrage people without kids into supporting censorship laws.
Um... or a parent could actually *look* at the box before they get to the checkout isle at toys-r-us. Hell, half of what the original article has is quoted straight from the product packaging. It's not like these things are sold in plain brown wrappers -- if you buy it, you've got a pretty damn good idea of what the toy does. A responsible parent wouldn't rely on a list like this, s/he would evaluate the toy and decide if the toy is appropriate for their child or not... and if they had any doubt as to what was in the box, they would ask one of the store employees if they could look inside before buying it.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Excellent. The corporations that engage in this (Mattel, etc.) deserve to be put out of business.
Jan
Yes.
be so rediculous, which makes it likely that their target audiences aren't parents at all but nonparents that would write their congressmen to ban toys.
It's CmdrTaco's summary. The article only claims these are "Toys to Avoid", by whatever standards the site uses. Which begs the further question of whether CmndTaco presenting this as "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters" is misleading as well.
Zoids is kinda like football if you think about it, plus the show promotes authority with the judges and whatnot.
Maybe you should try bettering your reading comprehension skills before posting again.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Can you support your claim that "This same organization is lobbying the US gov't to actually STOP production of these toys."?
You can't, because it's not true.
Read their website yourself. The strongest statement that they make about government action is that they want Congress to pressure the toy industry to stop **marketing** adult content toys and video games to children. That's not the same at all.
As for parents looking at toys for themselves, well, of course. The actual *list* is more of a publicity tool for their campaign to get parents to consider the effect of violent toys and games than it is a tool for parents to use in screening. If you *were* a parent who wanted to avoid violent toys and games, I'd guess that the actual number of items you'd need to avoid would be in the thousands, not a dozen!
Did anyone here expressing their 'Oh my god, the feds are out of control!' viewpoint actually look at theh rest of the site?
They are very very specific in their mission, at that is addressing the 'marketing of violent images and games' to children.
Reading the list of products and the 'why we choose this' bits there's a few obvious things to conder:
- First, these are the 'top ten most dangerous' within that context. I don't think these are the people trying to blame video games for Colombine and the like.
- Second, the things they are pointing out in the majority of cases is the inconsistency of ratings on related products. Which if you think about it is kind of silly.
Before I get the flames, note, I am as of this moment, bashing on sirens with clubs and I rather enjoy an occasional frag fest.
But I am also a parent. I am someone old enough to have a good handle on the world, and the ability to take things in context, I have matured to the point where I can understand what I am seeing fully, and not as just smaller pieces a child would understand.
So pointing out to parents an action figure for 5 year olds based on a teen->adult rated game isn't such a bad thing.
(Note, I don't know much about the group. I write this as a food-for-thought based on my first impressions.)
Your sig summarizes your post.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
From the lead paragraph ie xprcted a lsit of toys with small prts that coudl coem opf and choke a child, etc.
When did we get to the poitn that "child safety" included sticking to a prescribed politically correct politicla and social agenda?
According to their descriptions, NONE of these toys are "dangerous" in the sense of toy safety.
Skip such web-pap and read Consumer Reports if you are concerned about toys harming your child.
Oh and hears an idea, why don't YOU try teaching your children right from wrong rather then expecting toy, videogame and TV program makers to do I for you??
People die due to gross negligence and/or stupidity all the time. Why ban the darts?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Now I don't have to wast time putting together a shopping list!
Idiot moderators modding down stuff they either don't like or that has been repeated by the rest of the horde. arg. Now my karma is below 50.
Back to the topic, I think the slashdot headline was misleading more than the website. The website made no attempt to hide its nature. I think such a thing would be fairly useless because of the whole "preaching to the choir" problem, e.g. the only people checking the site would be those that would already care about that sort of thing. Blargh
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
Good Christ.. they say that survival mode has you KILL 100 people as fast as you can. While this is partly true, it's also PARTLY WRONG. The Street Fighter titles, unlike Mortal Kombat, work on the premise that you're knocking your opponent out (hence the KO when you defeat an opponent-- what the hell did they think KO stood for?!). Sure, during gameplay it no longer says KO between the energy/life/power meters, but that's an issue with screen real-estate; the timer couldn't go in it's original location on such a small screen.
I remember a site that lambasted South Park's movie when it came out, I can't find the link now but it's just evil-- not the movie, the site, for trying to tell people that a movie which to most adults is harmless is just so "evil" and likely to corrupt little children and impressionable adults.. blech. I hate these kooks.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
One of the dirty dozen was a K'Nex version of a Mech Warrior mech. Like, official ones from the RPG. A bit more digging and you can find that K'Nex has other Mech Warrior mechs. This Mad Cat would go well next to my Lego R2-D2.
. If only there had been similiar rebuttals presented against MADD before they single handed criminalized alcohol consumption for every adult in America between the ages of 18 and 21.[2]
[2]Excluding military personnel, who can drink on base after enlistment
Sadly, no. On base Federal Law rules, and Federal Law states that the drinking age is 18.
http://www.theonion.com/onion3628/fun_toy_banned.h tml
It's SOO true. We should just let the stupid people die.
If ound this interesting becuase I remember reading in the back of my class copy of Farenheit 451 an essay by Ray Bradbury about how many times publishers of "readers" have tried to censor his book in one way or another.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
"Anyone who thinks that kids don't know the F-word is far too naive to be running a country capable of nuclear warfare."
I asked a friend today that "Isnt the rule that your not crazy unless the voices tell you to kill, right?" Voice said "If he says no, kill him."
This is a group giving advice to the people that listen to it. Clearly, most of us don't, and never would listen to such a group.
The simple fact is, while YOU may not agree with them, there are many people who do. You really can't change the organization (lionlamb) and expect the followers to change. You have to change the followers.
I find it interesting that this got so much attention here on slashdot in the "your rights online" topic. It's silly, and they are any of dozens of so-called consumer groups that make these sort of recommendations.
Who cares what their opinion is? You aren't going to go with it, right? It's not forced on you, so how is it affecting your rights online?
I think we should worry about more pressing matters that really do concern our rights online, such as new copyright laws and treaties, not some stupid misguided group giving it's opinion. (They certainly aren't the only one in that category, you know.)
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
that the hot kids item this christmas will be Real, Actual, Guns, due to patriotism. Go us.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
For Slashdot readers too young to have seen one, a pinball machine was a mechanical device involving a steel ball, some solenoid actuated bumpers...
Wonderful way to put it. Don't be such a condescending asshole. Anyone who doesn't know what a pinball machine is could easily look it up, but your post assumes most people are ignorant, especially the young.
Most arcades still have pinball machines, and they are among my favorite things to play with.
I can walk probably up to a 10 year old and ask him what a pinball machine is, and get a correct answer.
For the record, I'm over the U.S. legal drinking age.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
my kid really likes "alice"... just learned to run around using the 'w' key (used to hop, but alice would die quick, shinjita) and slash lance-thrusting knaves. he's only two.
should i wallow in shame? what would jesus think? what does it all mean?
chodai datte, namida--more chocolate, now!
I also agree with you. It has been said many times before that in order for a kid to learn how to act in society, the kid needs to take some part in society; and that begins with the parents.
Any children with minimal human contact at a social level will not function well when they hit the teen years. My brothers and friends and I were playing AD&D, choping people up in an old C=64 Frankenstein game, and generally doing everything that "should" turn us into psycho serial killers. But we're not. We're rather quiet, very peaceful people.
-RB
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place."
- Mick Travis, "If..."
And it gets kids into reading... Excellent!
speaking of gta3 its been taken of the shelves in australia because of its violence the censorship bourd used the parts where you run over cops, old ladys aswell as the part where you attack prostitutes as main reasons. i read about this last night in the west australian news paper. its a bitch that there doing this 2 weeks before xmas.
matt w,
"chicks dig it"
And a culture that thinks that
- 30 second ads can change the way you behave, yet
- watching 24 minutes of smart ass kids demeaning each other and every adult in the area won't change behavior
is really in denial, and is totally unable to rationally address any of the issues we raised here.Well, women who are raped always claim to be affected by porn. Funny that they always say they'd rather be killed than raped, but when actually given the choice by the rapist, they always choose life. Then they tell all the interviewers how they would choose death rather than go through the same thing again. Gee. I guess most people like to live rather than die. Maybe some Ivory Tower types can do a study that proves people prefer dying to living when rape is involved.
This actually gets back to the gun arguments in previous threads. Maybe if all women carried a gun and used it, rapes would be ended. Then they wouldn't have to choose life or death, the rapist would have to choose, unless he grabbed her from behind first. DOH!!!
Umm©©© your right©©© but©©©
http://www©lionlamb©org/testimony©htm
You might want to read what they said to some members of the Senate©
"It is time to level the playing field© If you are serious about stopping the merchandising of violence to children, I implore you to appoint a blue-ribbon, non-industry-dominated commission to study the ways that violence is being marketed and cross-marketed to young children, and to find ways of *protecting children* from this cultural poison©" ¥my emphasis *
When the government "protects children" from something, it generally means laws and such© Several times during the testimony they compare toys to alcohol and tobacco© Does that seem a bit overboard to you?
Who decides which toys are "adult content"? Did you look at the recommened toys list?
http://www©lionlamb©org/Top_20_2001-2002©html
Not a single computer game© And the oldest age on the list is 9+ years ¥the Tricky Pix camera© What do you get a 12 year old? Tricky Pix? A hand puppet?
At least in the previous year's list they had Cranium for older kids©
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
Ok some people might feel that a right is being violated, but online? They are advocating against toys marketed to children. They aren't trying to say that the toy can't be made. They aren't trying to say that YOU can't buy the toy. They aren't even trying to say that an 8 year old can't have the toy.
All they are trying to say is that the marketing of some toys to YOUNG children is wrong. They are advocating for putting limits on how toys can be marketed. This does IMHO tred on the First Amendment some, but society has decided that other things should not be marketed to children, so there is a chance it could pass in congress.
Personally, I would just rather see strict truth in advertising laws draconian punishments, as the First Amendment does not protect fraud. But I digress.
These people are advocating something I find distaseful, namely the abridgment of Free Speech. On the other hand, I support fully their right to advocate for whatever they want to advocate for. To congress, on the web, to whoever else they want. If they want to organize boycotts, that is their right. If they want to lobby congress that is their right. If you disagree with them, lobby congress too. If you want them silenced, lobby congress for that.
Are they annoying? Yes. Should parent's be able to see and make decisions for themselves? Yes. So what? Get over it and get back to fragging.
I do wish the general userdom in slashdot would get off it's high horse, and actually check some things. The page referenced makes no mention to "dangerous" toys. It makes reference to toys parent's may want to "avoid". The "Dangerous" bit was simply inflamatory from the slashdot community.
Slashdot editors need to take a bit more care to provide a more accurate and balanced view of the various 'news' items posted here as well. Slashdot is becomming the major news site for a lot of people. Although I see nothing wrong with posting a reasonable and informed opinion about a particular piece of news (as in The Register), but slashdot seems to not only present opinion as fact, but fails to check even simple facts before posting what an untrained, and un-responsibile (not not irresponsible, but rather someone who can't be held accountable) person decides to write on the subject.
Come on, is surfing to the site noting the error and posting a little comment at the bottom all that hard?
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
I'm only a year younger than you, and was also mature/smart enough to realize that it was only a game. I've also had the first hand experience to realize that violence is NEVER fun in real life.
I agree on porno- it is just wrong, sex stuff even messes up adults on a daily basis- look at the divorce rate. As for horror films or games, I (as a parent) would make that decision on an individual basis for each child. Notice that I say "parent" in the decision. Not the government, not the schools, not anyone else! This whole thinkg gets into a huge amount of other topics that I don't want to elaborate on now.
My basic feeling is if you let your kid watch, say, Evil Dead 2, and he/she gets all fucked up, then you as a parent fucked up royally and did not do your job explaining reality vs. fantasy at all! If your kid thinks Doom is reality, it's your fault! There is absolutely NO reason why I kid playing a game or watching a movie (unless he has a severe psychotic problem) would be able to mix reality with fantasy if their parents are doing a good, fuck decent or average, job.
Desensitizing (sp?) kids occurs more on the news than anywhere else, as far as I'm concerned. "3 people killed in a drive by shooting, 2 dead in house fire, serial rapist claims another victim"?!?!?! THAT isn't desensitizing?!?! C'mon, this is real life smacking the kid in the face, and this is the absolute shit that leads the news every night! First- death, fires, explosions. Second- Celebrities, Hollywood, some government stuff. 3rd- Local puff piece. The rest- national sports, local sports, a "happy feeling" story, maybe a recall or health section, then weather.
How the hell is a kid supposed to process "4 dead in violent testicle knifing, video at 11", then get 60 seconds of talk, and then they move on? Impression- testicle knifing has a 60 second consequence! (Yes, I'm exageratting, but I hope you get the point).
Some other stuff- my parents let me watch every Bond film that came out when I was young. They knew me, they knew the material, they knew I could handle the violence, death, and occasional nudity. Whoopee.
I watch horror movies as long as I can remember, yet I don't ever remember hurting or killing anyone. I did kill all kinds of beasties and people in video games, saw it in movies, yet somehow I didn't become a serial killer! Imagine that!
I agree with you if you decide that the particular child can't handle it, but in general any kid with an ok life will be able to handle these abstract thoughts. But in general a child who is loved and supported can handle some crazy shit and get along just fine. I think that some people/groups/agencies have some kind of agenda (fuck if I know what it is) to try and convince the general public that a solid homelife, caring parents, and a fairly normal life won't help and that (place here) is the (current) evil of the world.
Just my thoughts on my observations of the world.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
i'm pretty sure mgm holds the copyright for the phrase 'dirty dozen' - is not naming a list of (heh) dangerous toys after a group of comdemned men - saved from hanging by lee marvin himself, trained secretly, then sent off to blow up germans - a violation of the DMCA?
ooh! ooh! mister ashcroft - bust 'em!
every good
I'm voting for Jar Jar Binks.
Sorry, have to reply as an AC - I'm at a public terminal...
I think the problem is the conflict of interest involved with the cross-marketing. McFarlane Toys makes the Solid Snake toy to capitalize off of the popularity of the video game. But the rights to him are licensed to McFarlane Toys by Konami, partly in the hopes of moving more games via the toys. But the video game is made for and marketed to adults while the toy is made for and marketed to adults and kids. Do you see the conflict of interest?
I'm not going to debate whether or not violent toy characters make for violent children. That's not what were discussing. Besides, I played with G.I. Joe growing up and I'm no worse off. However, the point is that legislation is warranted when companies do not behave appropriately. Marketing, to children, a toy tie-in to an adult product is not appropriate. Would a Joe Camel plush doll or Peter North and Jenna Jameson fully-posable action figures be appropriate for children? Of course not, because they are tied in with adult products. And so it is with the Metal Gear Solid action figures.
DreamingReal
(Explosives sold seperately)
The problem with computers is that they do what you TELL them to do, not what you WANT them to do.
Christian R. Conrad
mail me at iki.fi ; same user ID as here
BTW, I notice another post I responded to earlier was also by you -- not "stalking", I assure you, but sheer coincidence.
Or if you absolutely want to find causation, probably something about the pattern of A: the timing of your posts, B: your Karma, C: the time I read the fora, and D: my browsing threshold -- in all, your posts showed up as "low-hanging fruit", interesting enough to "be worth" respond to, "wrong" enough (though in this case not really) to be easily corrected, and standing out by each being the last post in its browser window. That's all, really.
Christian R. Conrad
mail me at iki.fi ; same user ID as here
a girl could pass out from lack of oxygen, waiting for Monkey Magic to arrive...
Mod this back up, Funny in case you missed the joke Happy Fun Ball is ficticious and from the Simpsons, but very appropriate in this conversation.
Hire out The Lord of the Flies sometime. It is also a book, but just reading it doesn't quite convey the horror of seeing kids do the things they do, and their level of enjoyment in it.
People are not naturally and instinctively "good". They injure, attack, rape, kill, bully, blackmail, lie, torture, steal and do many other horrible things.
Raising kids is not just buying the "right" toys, or avoiding the "bad" toys... or even getting your kids to behave well in public... it's trying to teach kids right from wrong, and the consequences of their actions. So that even away from people who can punish them, they will not decend into barbarism.
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest.' Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."
The American President - the Movie
a kids lobby group? legislation is not the only answer, but it is a part of the problem, and can be part of the solution.
raping machine or an automatic fingernail pulling machine, it's pretty obvious it's design is to hurt a person. a saw was not designed to hurt a person.
If you can't see the difference between a saw and a gun, then keep looking until you do, it's important.
closely...
if you think marketing execs care about your kids, take another look at your wallet.
companies don't give a damn if something affects your kids, unless it affects their bottom line.
lobbying is your right too, if you are so against what they do, lobby against it. you're not going to? it's obviously not that important to you then is it?
if you don't vote, I don't care about your opinion
that's why he was a cartoon!
that doesn't sound like Economics to me, got anything to back that up?
the right to bear arms (if you've ever read your own constitution) is clearly intended for use in war, against internal American states. it is not for an individual.
armies have rules too, you don't get to take your tank home for the weekend to play with, or to run down your neighbour that pisses you off
America has higher gun crimes per capita than anti-gun countries, but not an actually higher crime rate.
that it's okay to hurt someone if they hurt someone you love.
kids learn by example. if daddy is allowed to be a psychopath when it suits him, so can they.
think about the people that love that person, cos they'll be after you next, since you hurt someone they love... and if you're dead... your kids are next
comes across not at all... please try again
that's fucking hillarious
the australian government does not have a suitable rating to match the game. when they do, it'll be back on shelves.
editors have different catagories, so get that part right!
no idea what your first one is about, the second one is closer to Your Rights Online, no idea on the last one...
but also remember there are such things as slow and fast news days.
the same story you send in one day and is rejected, might well have been accepted the day before. you're not the only one submitting stories. but if you are looking for somewhere that will publish your stories, try kuro5hin.org or another slash-ish site.