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Obviously never saw greasecars

Sure I did. They were in that movie with Olivia Newton-John. :-)

You mean like this. It uses both refined diesel fuel and unrefined cooking grease, with the diesel to run the car and make heat until the waste heat from the engine makes the cooking grease hot enough to get through fuel injectors, etc. Some filtering is necessary too.

I also know the director of Freeway Philharmonic, which has a scene of poor orchestra musicians syphoning cooking oil to run their car, not necessarily with permission.

There's a big difference between "biodiesel" and "waste vegetable oil" systems. Biodiesel is probably not what your TDI is rated for; rather they do not want you running WVO in it.

I have a 1996 Jetta TDI with a Greasecar conversion kit in it, and true 'nuff it does smell like french fries when going down the street running on veggie. However, another poster (an AC) was talking about running it on Chinese restaurant oil. To him/her I say "Nay!" Do not use that stuff. Use the oils from an Italian pizzeria. The oil that comes from there is barely used before being discarded.

With the proper filtration, preferably a centrifuge, you can get the WVO practically particulate free. However, do not try this on a vehicle under warranty; I take no responsibility. I just know that mine runs fine on WVO.

Actually, Rudolf Diesel originally intended his engine to use a variety of fuels including coal dust and peanut oil. As it is, you can run most modern Diesels to run on Straight/Waste Vegetable Oil. The only issue with using SVO is that it gels at even higher temperatures than (Bio-)Diesel, making cold weather performance more of an issue and making tank heating a necessity in colder climes (Like Canada and Alaska, for example).

You don't even *have* to make biodiesel. The diesel engine was originally invented to run off of straight peanut oil. As an example of what can be done, there are kits out there to have your engine run on used cooking oil http://www.greasecar.com/ Using cooking oil is also completely carbon neutral when used as fuel this way. Here is some data that compares the levels of emissions http://www.greasecar.com/tech.cfm (though it could be slightly biased)

You don't even *have* to make biodiesel. The diesel engine was originally invented to run off of straight peanut oil. As an example of what can be done, there are kits out there to have your engine run on used cooking oil http://www.greasecar.com/ Using cooking oil is also completely carbon neutral when used as fuel this way. Here is some data that compares the levels of emissions http://www.greasecar.com/tech.cfm (though it could be slightly biased)

But it's not a Ethenol hybrid.

It's a 2001 VW Jetta TDI. Diesel. Installed a GreaseCar system. Works well, but not in this weather (-20C..-30C).

Pretty much every other time of the year, I start on DinoDiesel and once things get hot enough I switch to Waste Veggie Oil I get and filter to 10 microns from a local pub.

The article puts things together in a clear way. Points out what's wrong with the nut-jobs who think the world can be run off of butterflies and rainbows.

To those back-and-forthing on Ethenol - think about how much energy there is in a litre of ethenol. It's very very small. Production is expensive ($$$ & energy).

I don't 100% agree with the article's view on charcol fuel sources. But I like the analysis, not many gems like that.

My thoughts on how to solve this? Okokokok I'll tell you anyways. Grow alge, crush it into oil and use that. Alge grows 100x faster than canola/soy/rapeseed, is 50% oil, and only requires sunlight, (non-)salted water, heat, dirt and shit. No expentive farming equipment guzzling diesel to harvest. Just settling ponds like at the local water treatment plant to skim off the alge.

Anyways. Alge == good. Alge has had about 3-4 Billion years head start on Solar-power. Don't believe me? Take a deep breath.

producing bio-D creates toxic waist and needs methoxide (Lye and methonal) to crack the oil into the glycerin and bio-D and then you have to do something with glycerin laced with the CH3O-

the gasses from methoxide are very nasty stuff and you are efectivly removing about 1/3 of the whole oil.

you can run your car on waste vegetable oil (WVO) of straight vegetable oil (SVO) so if farmers are being paid to not grow then that land could be used to produce an oil crop and if dosent have to be an etable oil crop. Rapeseed oil A.K.A. Canola oil can be farmed to prodce quite a bit of fuel and it's one of the better oil to use in a diesel. it reduces NOx and CO at the tail pipe and the carbon produced in the burning of *VO is part of a loop (the plants grown to produce the CO will absorbe the CO in there growing)
  here is a good resorse http://www.greasecar.com/tech.cfm.

there is no sulpher in VO so their is little if any SO2 being released into the air.

both NOx and SO2 are componits of Acid rain.

VO is the way to go bio-d is good too but VO allows one to use all the oil with little to no waste and less polution.

there is my $0.02

not in a haha kind of way.

the guy who took his family on the road trip was braging on greasecar forum and now it's lord godwin (DIEbrid) who is taking the credit
this who thing is a farce!

here is the greasecar crap.

http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmto picID=10026

GOD this is becoming a joke and the death of running your car on VO. the EPA is going to end-up bitch slaping a few of us who do run on WVO because of idiots like godwin.

godwin and others need to get things pushed thru the EPA before they seek the 15 min of fame, so they don't screw over the whole grease movment.

(from what I understand) the fribrid system for the suburban is enginered with a flaw that mounts the tank between two flexabl parts of the body and it ends up stressing the VO tank to the point of rupture. (just an FYI) as well the whole system is over complicated and way far away from the KISS princaple.

running a diese on VO is not rocket science (after all Rudolph Diesel actualy built the firsd diesel engine and ran it on Biomass!)

I thought that Justin Carven and others at http://www.greasecar.com/ were doing this a while back? Started as a project at Hampshire College and evolved from there.

first off I think BD is really cool and is definitely a better alternative than ethanol.

As far as fewer emissions, that is a simplification although it's mostly true. B100-burning engines generally produce more NOx than petro-diesel engines. This may be improved by some of the new diesel engine tech coming up but I don't know for sure. The best NOx decreases come with the BD blends (like B20) or B100+additives, but that isn't quite as cool as 100% BD. After all it's really 80% petro. Overall BD emissions are better but not universally better. Here's a nice chart (warning: PDF).

Also, ethanol technically can come from other sources than corn, it just isn't being made that way in the US. Brazil makes most (all) of theirs from sugar cane. Politics and lobbying are the only things keeping corn up front. Witness the recent sugar squabbles between the US and Mexico.

The biggest pain using BD here in MN is the low cloud point on the stuff. I'd have to hook up some kind of greasecar-style heater deal to be able to burn b100 here when it's around or below freezing (i.e. october-april). It would be great right now, though, with our 100 degree afternoons.

My diesel automobile could easily run biodiesel refined from old fry grease from the McDonald's down the street if only Uncle Sam would shove Big Oil out of the way and let it be refined.

Never mind that you (yes, you!) can get a permit for small-scale biodiesel production.

Also, you don't even have to refine it! Get a $795 kit from greasecar, a $1200 kit from greasel (bad idea) or a $1100 kit from Elsbett (best idea, if you have the money) and you can run on vegetable oil. You only need [bio]diesel for startup and shutdown, and if you get the Elsbett kit, you can put whatever fuel including WVO into the same tank and start up on it, too.

Biodiesel costs about $0.25/gallon if you make it yourself. Deacidifying and dewatering average fryer oil costs about $0.05/gallon. WVO has about 85% the energy of biodiesel, so you will get less power/mileage on oil, but it's cheaper, and easier. You can, however, build a biodiesel processor for around $600.

I have a 1981 Mercedes 300SD and plan to get the Elsbett kit, which is spoken of very highly everywhere I've seen a reference.

A grease-powered vehicle would be FAR better. We've got a huge surplus of used waste cooking oil already at hand compared to the amount of farmland it would take to produce a comparable amount of bio-diesel, and two people I know of here in Memphis run their cars almost exclusively off of grease (minus when they need to switch to petroleum diesel in order to warm the grease up in cold temperatures.) With the engine and electrical drivetrain they're using, they could potentially get far more than 50 MPG running off of waste veggie oil, plus they'd produce far less nasty pollutants - practically nil.

you can convert any diseal into one that runs on vegetable oil.
http://www.greasecar.com/
you can also rent one in LA
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?t ype=scienceNews&storyID=2006-03-01T012042Z_01_N282 18334_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-LIFE-BIODIESEL-DC.XML

Technically biodiesel is a blend of tradtional diesel and vegitable oil that burns cleaner than diesel by itself and if you have a free or cheap source of vegitable oil, used generally, it can be cheaper.

Er, no. Biodiesel is a fuel produced from vegetable oil, it is not vegetable oil. The article is about a cataylst to improve the process of vegetable oil to biodiesel.

Some people have done conversion work to run diesel engines on vegetable oil. That's way cool. But that's not biodiesel.

Blends of biodiesel and tradtional petroleum diesel fuel are popular. That doesn't mean biodiesel is a blend.

You should be able to run Biodiesel with out any conversion But if you want to run SVO (straight vegetable oil) then you need a conversion kit. http://www.greasecar.com/

From their FAQ's:
Q How does the Greasecar system work?

A The Greasecar system is a two tank fuel system. The vehicles existing diesel tank and filter will supply diesel fuel to the engine at start up and shut down. After start up radiator fluid will transfer heat from the engine to the heat exchangers in the Greasecar fuel system. These heat exchangers will heat the vegetable oil in the fuel filter, lines and fuel tank. The heat will reduce the viscosity of vegetable oil so that it is similar to diesel and can be injected into the engine properly. When the vehicle is being shut down for a period long enough for the fuel to cool the vegetable oil must be purged from the fuel system and replaced with diesel for the next start up.

If energy issues interst you, check out the discussion forums at The Watt

>> Gas will never hit $10 per gallon, because even without subsidies biofuels cost less than that to produce.

Burning vegetable oil in our cars and trucks has been suggested since the creation of deisel engines.

The tech to do it is here and it works. Check this link out greasecar There is plenty more on the web about this, but the greasecar link is the only one I have in memory - google biodeisel for similar stuff

I expect if vegetable based fuels were created & refined on a decent scale, the price would be in the ballpark _now_. More likely that I'll see my tax dollars wasted on recovery of oil from marginal sources, like shale and tar sands..

>> This is unAmerican and you hippies should be ashamed of yourselves! ;)

I'm not American, so hopefully I can get away with linking to www.greasecar.com

If you're interested in running your vehicle on biodeisel or straight vegatable oil, it's a good place to start reading. Very interesting stuff..

Nah...

Biodiesel or even restaruant oil!

Turbo-Diesel owners have been seeing numbers in this range, or better, for years.

Seems what the market needs is a diesel/electric hybrid to get numbers that will impress any diesel owners.

Otherwise most TDI Volkswagens have been able to outshine these numbers for years. Plus you can't run a Prius on used cooking oil.

With the amount of grease produced in big cities and the disposal costs in landfills, it appears that the natural place for CWT to build their next plant isn't near rural poultry plants, but Manhattan.

Of course, given the readily-available technology to run diesel engines on vegetable oil with no additional processing, this may simply be redundant...

You mean like this? Granted, it's not hydrogen.

Grease Car offers conversion kits to run your diesel car off of vegetable oil for a mere $800. It may seem like a half-baked idea, but it's really not; also, most restaurants will give you their used oil for free, and after filtering you have a virtually unlimited fuel supply. Saves you money, saves the environment, and helps eliminate our oil dependancy.

also check out this link: These people make kits to convert a diesel into a vegtable oil / diesel

greasecar

Heck, you can drive for $.00 per gallon by buying a conversion kit from Greasecar. These kits allow you your diesel off of straight vegetable oil.

I remember reading about some kids from Vermont converting a bus and going cross country and just stopping at fast food places along the way.

Well, lots of others still use veggie oil to power their cars: greasecar.com

rumor has it that biodiesel takes more real fossil fuels to make than it yeilds.

The diesel engine was originally developed to be a so-called biodiesel. As far as I understand it, the original diesel engine was designed so that a farmer could grow a field of corn (or whatever) and press oil out of it and fuel his tractor for the rest of the season. A diesel can be made to run from vegetable oil with very minor modifications. Furthermore, I went to college with these guys as they were developing the greasecar -- which is really a system they built to modift an existing diesel car to run on used fryer grease (it even works with bacon grease). If everyone used this, the waste grease wouldn't be as plentiful, but it's still a really neat concept. Here's the problem though. Biodiesel (as well as the greasecar) still releases the same amount of greenhouse gases. If you're concerned about global warming, rinning a biodiesel is still a consideration. Also, it really does take alot of energy to grow the vegetables to make fuel for these vehicles -- and I agree with the other replies that there is a point of diminshing returns.

I'm not against new ideas for making a better mousetrap (motor, whatever)...but as much as the gasoline internal combusiton engine (ICE) is disliked, it's really hard to beat 120 years of development. Many technologies have had a difficult time competing (such as the rotary engine, which has remarkable power output per liter and fuel economy) with the ICE in terms of reliability and up-front price. It will take decades for a new technology to stabilize within the marketplace. It seems that hybrids will be the next big thing...and if anyone figures out how to make fuel cells really work (in the mass-market sense), they'll be the next big thing.

Use vegetable oil instead. Similar energy/mass ratio, easily transportable, easily produceable, and adds no additional carbon to the air.

It can be done, hell there's cars that can run off of used cooking grease(well, oil, vegetable oil). But the same old problem comes up, it's too big of an industry, with too many "power" people involved making their fortunes from it. Just like tobacco and the hellish medical insurance industry here in the US.They would not, and have not, taken the phase out of crude oil sitting down.

I use dio-diesel in my old VW rabbit pickup and get over 60 miles per dollar. For a $600 investment in a SVO kit, the fuel becomes free ... I am saving up.

best info good kit good kit best kit best book

If you want to Go Geek, there's nothing like a Greasel Car. Runs for free, lasts longer than a diesel, and smells like popcorn. Plus, the carbon cycle is closed - you're just burning the plants that sucked the CO2 from the air anyway.

Greascar

I was going to consider a big 4-door diesel pickup (similarly modified) but the cost is roughly 3X the VW! Eeek! Mr. Bank Account vetoed that right after my wife did.

My wife works for a chi-chi culinary school so I have a good source for grease, but any greasy spoon will do.

Dude, I would regularly get 1100kms (680 miles) in my normally aspirated 1989 diesel jetta. And it's a simple modification (kit is $700USD) to convert that car to run not on biodiesel, but on plain old fryer fat - the stuff McD's throws out by the gallon! How's that for efficient.

For other really intersting biodiesel info, check out The Grease Car

--Turkey

That's why you get a Ford F-250 king cab diesel or any other big diesel thing and convert it to run on french fry grease. That is exactly my plan in the next year or so -- get a used Ford (why Ford? they are common in my neck of the woods (I hate to wait for parts) and my brother-in-law is a Ford mechanic) and do the mods for used grease (my wife works at a culinary school!). ANY diesel vehicle (even BIG OLD CHEVY SUBURBANS if you want to feel tank-like) will do. Mercedes are nice and safe. Escalade schmescalade - get a diesel EXCURSION!!

Considering that used grease is usually free, the $1000 install of the kit should pay for iself in short order -- at a minimum I go 40 miles a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year. At $1.50 a gallon of something (and 15 mpg, though that is optimistic for a big thing) it will pay for the kit in ONE YEAR.

All this whining that biodiesel isn't available -- burn used grease of which there is a HUGE supply: Greasecar.

This is now the third time I've posted about Greasecar (not affiliated in any way, but plan to implement a kit in the the next year or so).

Heard a radio story or two recently about diesel and soot. As clean as they can be (nowadays) from a carbon standpoint they have another bad thing about them: soot. Even if the carbon is reduced the soot is sunlight blocking / reflecting and thus weather affecting (kind of like those contrails) -- so much so that even the diesel-guzzling Europeans are beginning to take notice of the problem. I am not sure if the soot issue is resolved at all with biodiesels or grease cars. Still reseraching that one...

Why do you think we have so much focus on the "storage" of nuclear waste instead of "disposal?"

Hahahah oh lord! Why do we STORE nuclear waste versus dispose of it? BECAUSE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DISPOSE OF! What the fuck are you going to do with it? Seal it up in 55 gallon drums and stick it somewhere out of the way and hope they never leak? There is no safe place on earth to dump uncontained nuclear waste, and it would be cost prohibitive and extraordinarily dangerous to launch it into space. The only solution is to store it where it can be constantly monitored to ensure that it remains contained. Also to make sure no nasty terrorists get their hands on it. That's what Yucca Mt. is for.

Granted, nuclear power makes sense for super carriers and submarines, although it's too bad we need such implements in the first place. Thankfully there are relatively few nuclear powered subs and ships.

"Look up Operation Plowshare, it was the government's stupid plan to use small nuclear explosions to dig canals."

Let's see... bury nukes deep enough that the explosion (and any and all radioactive fallout) is kept underground. The explosion makes a crater, you connect the dots. Viola. What's so dangerous about that?

Well you haven't really dug a canal then, have you? And I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that all of the radiation stayed underground and that you did fling any radioactive dust into the air. Oh and it sucks for anyone who tries to dig a drinking well in that area for the next 10 million years.

Not that I'm a fan of fossile fuel either. Biomass fuels are the real solution. Check out www.biodiesel.com and www.greasecar.com for the REAL answers, at least untill we develop better photovoltaic technology.

Diesel engines stink, you say? Not if they're biodiesel !
What could be better than getting to drive an SUV *and* clean up McDonald's waste (using up their old fryer oil) at the same time? It's the ultimate in American!

That reminds me of the greasear folks, that convert diesel engines into grease engines.. so they can get free low-emission fuel from fast food restaurants.

The guys over at GreaseCar sell kits to convert your diesel to run on "straight, unprocessed vegetable oil."

Yes Atlas Shrugged and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. Both books (and their authors) have flaws but are really quite good.

But you know I am so damned tired of whiney communists/'greens' and their ilk. Yea, the planet can get fucked up by messy idiots. However, they seem to revel in picking on western civilization, especially the US, in its contribution to the problem. There's a lot of GOOD that's come out of science and technology relating to fixing the mess, yet these luddites cast their eyes longingly at the 'simple tribal societies' of the third world, while damning technological progress! The same people who can't explain to me what food is 'organic' and what is not, seem to think that they can somehow use their 'love of mother earth' as a substitute for rational thought in molding environmental policy.

If you really want to see the world become cleaner, figure stop hugging trees and start driving a GreaseCar, or find out about the advantages and disadvantages of a Tesla Turbine, etc.

use plastic lumber or simply buy it and donate it to local community gardens or others who can use it.

A serious solar charger for batteries and use rechargable batteries wherever possible (I know that this has shortcomings, but still helpful for now).

buy LED light bulbs (especially for hallways and other areas you use briefly)

a wind turbine based-system rather than a PV one (more bang for the buck, generally longer lifespan)

an on-demand water heating system, ideally one able to be run on methane

buy a diesel car and convert it to biodiesel, or even better, offer to help others who already have diesel (like local school buses) convert.

The last one is the biggest and the most effective. If you want to spend serious cash then funding a biodeisel support program that buys kits, pays engineering students or auto mechanics to install and support them, and then funds the processing of waste oil (local fast food outlets will have plenty) would make a huge difference. These folks have solid conversion kits and these folks can get you up and running. I figure an effective program would cost about $20K to set up and about $3K to $5K a year to maintain.
Good luck,

Rustin

www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/business/27DIES.html
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle / rchive/2001/05/23/MN110637.DTL
journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
www.greasecar.com
www.lupo80days.com/route_en.html
www.a-car.com/index.html
www.biodiesel.org/
lowtech.bigstep.com/
www.veggievan.com
www.americanbiodiesel.com/
www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1309000/ 1309201.stm
www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,31920,00.html

Biodiesel sounds okay, but GreaseCar is already here! The solution is not one system but a variety of smaller solutions. Moderation in all things.

If you are mechanically inclined and ambitious, you CAN make your own car that runs on grease if you like. Here are some good links on converting a gas cars into pure electrics or hybrids like the Insight. More links here.

On a tangentially related topic, for the slightly eccentric there's info on "performance" electric vehicles here. The world record holder's page is here. 8.801 seconds in the quarter on batteries, and the baby pulls 1200 amps. Amazing.

- Freed

Forget diesel, I want a grease powered car! Those fancypants Detroit automakers and Texas oil drillers may think they have a hold on the American market. They may think the American people are too stupid to convert to cheaper, cleaner, more efficient technologies already proven overseas, but we'll prove them wrong. Pull up to a McDonalds and siphon some fuel from the Fry-O-Lator, that'll show 'em.