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Fuel Cells To Appear In Laptops In 2004
prostoalex writes "The overhyped fuel cells will finally be delivered to the portable computing market. Toshiba and NEC will incorporate fuel cells into the laptops by 2004. Sony, Hitachi and Casio are expected to follow the suit. The tests show a fuel cell lasting 10 hours. With the form-factor of a Bic lighter, it allows the laptop user to carry a few extra cells in the laptop bag all the time. Battery prices are expected to run at about $200."
Booooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!!
Sounds rather like a potential weapon to me. In which case what's the point?
I say the venture is worth the risk. A new standard can always be used in different ways than previously planned. Alternative power sources aren't needed for just laptops and if the technology is there, use it!
--"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams
Is how much do the refills cost? Surely, 100ml or whatever of methanol is going to last you for 10 hours, but what do you do then?
You can't regenerate it, so you go shopping for a refill?
I want to know if the fuel can be stored in a canister like butane is, and have it so you can refill the little cartidges with somthing like that, so you can buy the stuff from any place like a gas station or any other type of store, for a cheap price. I also want to know if Apple has plans to embrace the technology, and if they could cram the entire fuelcell into a battery pack, so it can be an option to use a recharage laptop battery or a fuel cell, and have it use the same slot, etc. Out of curiousity, do the 12/15/17"PBG4s and the iBook have the same type of battery, as it would help a new option of a fuel cell in a batterypack form come along, and it could be easially refilled. Any input on this?
Sig: I stole this sig.
Is it just me, or can you already see the "FILL YOUR OWN FUEL CELL AND SAVE $$$" spam filling your mailbox? ;)
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
If one fuel cell lasts 10 hours and is the size of a bic lighter.. why not use 2 or 3 of them, or just make the one bigger to give more life between charges?
Call me a skeptic (and I hope I'm wrong), but I don't think 2004 will see this. At least not to the general laptop buying populus.
The business flyers, which probably comprise at least 70% of laptop users, will be hard-pressed to get "BIC lighter-sized" fuel cells onto planes, unless it's disguised as a lighter (which aren't supposed to be allowed anyway).
Imagine explaining to security what that little sucker is.
"Is how much do the refills cost? Surely, 100ml or whatever of methanol is going to last you for 10 hours, but what do you do then? You can't regenerate it, so you go shopping for a refill?"
There's included instructions on how to fart into the fuel cell. That provides enough fuel for another 10 hours.
"The issue isn't 'Are flammable liquids safe on an aircraft?' They already are allowed with liquor and perfume,"
If I had my druthers, perfume would be banned completely from all flights.
But seriously, the main problem is that these fuel cells can be easily reconfigured to contain highly explosive materials for use as portable bombs. In this highly charged anti-terrorism atmosphere, it is important to make technology as transparent as possible. The more a technology relies on bomb-like batteries or razor-like Flash memory cards, the more likely it becomes that a real terrorist could sneak a truly dangerous device onboard.
They mention that the cells can be refilled, but no mention where or how. Somehow I don't think people will want to buy 6 or 8 hours of extra battery time if they have to pay $200 bucks for it.
They also mention that the infrastructure's not there yet to support these cells. I'm guessing that means there are no places that will refill them.
So if you desperately need that much battery power, pay the price each time until refill stations come along. yay.
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
There's more than one way to make batteries last longer. One is obvious, make longer lasting batteries. The second is to make processors that don't waste so much energy (this would also reduce heat production).
Help I'm a rock.
That the manufacturers will pull an 'Ink Jet Cartridge' here and make it so that these things are not (easily) refillable? Plan on having to buy these only from the manufacturer, at a ridiculously inflated price. The whole Ink Jet cartridge BS is the main reason I stepped up and bought a laser printer for home use.
\/\/oobie
It claims they will run about $200. That is very cheap considering some of the best batteries we have now cost just about the same. Fuels cells have also looked to be rather expensive everywhere I've seen them. Check out http://wwww.fuelcellstore.com for example. Why are these fuel cells on places like fuelcellstore.com so expensive and the ones they plan on putting out as laptop power devices fairly cheap? I understand that economics has partly to do with it since the laptop fuel cells will be sold in much larger quantities. I still wonder and would love to hear someone who knows anything about this.
Question everything.
I just hope they don't try to emulate the 'printer ink' market as far as revinue goes. I wouldn't be suprised to see $5/cart, even though the contents would cost less then a nickle if you could refill them.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
lighters aren't banned from flights. they were going to be banned - until the tobacco industry lobbied bush to allow them.
Airlines have already approved fuel-cell powered laptops on their planes, it is very harmless and such, and airport security is susposed to just keep joe-sixpack from bringing in a gun in his suitcase, they aren't going to check for a small lighter-sized thing in your laptop.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Could you imagine a bunch of nerds standing around the "pumps" at a refil station talking like truckers?
- "Where ya crunchin today"
- "I'm headin ova to the east side to war drive for a few hours then I gotta catch me a plane to Utah to kick McBride in the crotch."
- "Get 'er dun"
But seriously. Hopefully the refils are cheap enough that it would make this feasible. Otherwise I personally only see the technology being viable for desknotes or desktop replacement computers that are rarely away from a wall socket and could benifit from a (very) small battery.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
Weird. The page is widened for this story. That's not happy.
Well, fortunately (or unfortunately, as the case may be), the tobacco industry lobbyists won a battle with the homeland security people: lighters and matches are not banned from airplanes, because big tobacco called their pet politicians and fought the proposed regs. You can take a Bic lighter on a plane in the US.
I've heard rumors of fuel cells coming to market for quite some time now. Most of the fuel cell research seemed to be related to cars, though.
I think the tech sector is definately a more appropriate audience for fuel cells, the market is much more used to accepting new technologies and living with a short product life span.
It is good that the problems and shortcomings of fuel cells can be uncovered by the tech market before the auto industry adopts them. It'd be a shame to have a car that you just paid $20,000 for break down after a couple years!
the main problem is that these fuel cells can be easily reconfigured to contain highly explosive materials for use as portable bombs
So can my shoes - in fact that's been tried. All that idiot and would-be-martyr lacked was an adequate detonation system.
We've all seen the monkeys that work security at the airports. They're too busy harrassing honest non-terrorists, taking their bic pens, fingernail clippers, and knitting needles. They won't catch someone who is ernestly trying to sneak something dangerous onboard.
The "portable bomb" issue is ridiculous, what about a water bottle filled with vodka, or propane, natural gas (can't smell it!)
I understand caution, but unless they restrict ALL liquids and bottles, they can't really prevent the "portable bomb" issue
Anyways, a savvy airline would PROHIBIT them as carry ons, and then sell them to users on board, like the movie theaters do with food.
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Are these laptops going to be pouring water on our legs as we use these?
Or do we have to drain the laptop after the battery runs out?
Pubcrawler.ca
.
You know what else can be easily reconfigured to contain highly explosive materials for use as a portable bomb...? This shiney red rubber ball.
*pays homage to News Radio*
Banaaaana!
The PowerBooks' batteries are all different sizes, although I believe they all use the same technology. For the most up to date information on battery types for various PowerBook computers, refer to article 16168: "PowerBook: Battery, Recharger, & AC Adapter Identification".
It's already easy to sneak weapons on board airplanes. When I flew to Hawaii, I forgot to take my box cutters out of my wallet. Nobody noticed. Not at the international security terminal at O'Hare, and not at the domestic security terminal in LA. Now if I'm not mistaken, box cutters are exactly what the 9/11 terrorists used. Yet they didn't notice mine, and I wasn't even trying to hide them. How much easier can it get?
The biggest problem for Fuel Cell powered laptops is the army of pound foolish diptards that our great country has installed as a Security Force to prevent anyone for bringing toenail clippers aboard flights, or making it to the gate in less than 3 hours.
Counterpoint:
And if they do exempt fuel cell laptops, how safe is that? Does a 45 year old rent-a-cop with the primary work experience of standing at the door of an innercity McDonalds (and an IQ of 70) really have the ability to tell a power cell from an explosive cartridge?
They pass through anything that lights up. Boot up your laptop, it might be a bomb! Oh the lights came on? Carry on then! Sheesh.
I'd rather know I'm in slight danger jumping on a flight than be hassled to no end by humorless retards and still know I'm not safe.
But enough about that.
Why am I suddenly thinking
;^)
'briefcase bomb'?
"Don't even think about it man, this laptop is armed and ready to blow!"
(I am suddenly reminded of the nifty little gizmo briefcase that James Bond used to carry around
That's hilarious - somebody mod this funny, cuz some moron modded it insightful.
Allied Business predicts there will be only a paltry 2,000 laptops with "micro" fuel cells shipped worldwide in 2004.
Four years later, that could spiral upward to 1 million fuel cell laptops and $150 million in revenue, growing to 120 million laptops and $1.2 billion by 2011, the firm predicts.
In a hundred years, the universe will consist of nothing but these laptops with nifty batteries.
Exactly, what I was wondering. This is a complete paradigm shift in that plugging in the laptop won't recharge it if you're using fuel cells. That doesn't sit well with me. I mean, fuel cells will have to be as easily available as a power outlet because as it is people get peeved when inkjet cartridges need to be replaced. Also the fuel cells refills will have to cost the same as a conventional recharge. 2004 release? Forgive me if I believe DNF will be available first.
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
Correct me if I am wrong but do not fuel cells not handle heat very well?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
But I agree (and so does the article if you read it ;)). The real trick is to convince the airport security people that this isn't a threat (at least no more then anything else they let on the plane).
If you can use this on planes it will sell out so fast you will have to pre-order months in advance. If it is banned, nobody will buy.
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
In this highly charged anti-terrorism atmosphere, it is important to make technology as transparent as possible.
iFuel-cell!
You can't take the sky from me...
That is such a commie pinko thing to say. You probably don't drool at the sight of a Chevy Avalanche the way us red-blooded 'mericans do. Waste is good for the economy. If you waste more, you buy more. The more wasteful products we can produce, the sooner we can get out of this recession!
More efficient! Sounds like you need a trip to Camp X-Ray, buddy!
Four more years!
Fuel cell-powered laptop prototypes have been developed by Toshiba (6502.T) and NEC (6701.T), who plan to start selling them as full-fledged products next year. Casio (6952.T), Sony (6758.T) and Hitachi (6501.T) and Samsung (00830.KS) of Korea are also working on micro fuel cell technology.
Goodman predicts that, in a matter of years, fuel cell batteries no bigger than a cigarette lighter will run for 10 hours or more before being replaced.
I suspect prostoalex might work in a PR department.
:wq
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - MOD THIS DOWN, MOD THIS DOWN!!! We can't allow this to be seen by an airline executive!!!!! Damn yooouuuu!!!!
the main problem is that these fuel cells can be easily reconfigured to contain highly explosive materials for use as portable bombs.
So can cigarette lighters and they are still allowed on airplanes.
The more a technology relies on bomb-like batteries or razor-like Flash memory cards, the more likely it becomes that a real terrorist could sneak a truly dangerous device onboard.
Do you realize how paranoid this sounds? At least to a non US human being?
How about a wind-up dynamo crank on the side of the laptop? Let's make it 1 minute winding = 30-60min power.
$cat
Are you retarded? No terrorist would even DREAM of sneaking non-ranged weapons onto a flight after 11 September. People would smother him and beat the crap out of him before he got a chance to finish pulling it out.
What do you think will happen as a result of this?
Some of my guesses include:
1. increase notebook/laptop sales -- people who think their notebooks are "fast enough" will finally have a compelling reason to switch.
2. revolutionize the UPS (uninterruptable power supply) market.
3. dramatically increase the number of wirelessly connected users.
4. ad hoc LAN parties!
And so on...what is your prediction?
Something I found of interesting on the japan version of the Toshiba website: World's First Small Form Factor Direct Methanol Fuel Cell for Portable PCs... this was a press release from March 5, 2003
It says that the current prototype can operate for approximately five hours on 50cc of high concentration methanol with an average 12 watts of output with a max of 20 watts. They have the aim of product commercialization within 2004.
They mention that part of the problem is that the optimum methanol/water ratio is 3% to 6%, but they overcame this by using waste water to dilute the incoming methanol solution... cool.
So, yeah, it is vaporware, but is a cool concept... if you don't have the ability to do fuel cell with your current laptop, you could get a docking station version.
I'm curious though... what is the average usage of a laptop... something tells me 12 watts is not enough.
Has been three years away for over five years! I'm with the others who are skeptical about it becoming available. As for why they're apparently not building in a way to "refill" them, I'd guess it's both an attempt to stave off accidents and liability, and to protect their profits, just like most major printer manufacturers seem to not want us to refill the ink cartridges.
Humor works best when it contains a grain of truth. Moore's attempts at humor fall flat because he fails to include even a single grain of truth in his diatribes.
Picture of one for laptops
from
Fuelcell.org
you may now mod this as redundant.
If they are the size of a cigarette lighter then you could for example take an average notebook battery (they can be pretty big) and fit several fuel cells into the same space? Even if the notebook manufacturers wont do it (they'd much rather you paid for a new notebook or atleast a very very expensive adapter kit) you can make your own! And im sure this will spark a new trend of illigal "refills" and people overclocking their batteries by messing with the mixture of chemicals ;)
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Imagine explaining to security what that little sucker is.
There was a time that I carried a alphanumeric pager, and like any good geek I hacked together a ttl logic serial port and changed it's basic configeration. It was most useful going to the airport, this was pre-9/11. They would ask me to turn it on, I said it was on. They told me to make it say something, so I hit the little button and it said, "Bugger off".
will be hard-pressed to get "BIC lighter-sized" fuel cells onto planes, unless it's disguised as a lighter (which aren't supposed to be allowed anyway).
I'm not so sure about that. The last time I flew I just so happened to carry with me a bic lighter. I thought to my self I'd carry a cheep one so I wouldn't be too upset if I had to throw it away. I asked the charming security person if it was a problem, they said no, so hey.
Imagine explaining to security what that little sucker is.
Simple... "it's for my laptop" or "it's a batery". From what i've observed, they are trained to make sure things *work* before they give you the OK to move along. I don't make it a habbit of testing my limits at the checkpoints as the only reason to be there these days is to fly.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Just add some fresh cells when you get in a bind and it works without having to ante up $200 for an overpriced rechargeable from the manufacturer.
I usually use it plugged into the wall, but like to have the option of using the batteries.
You'd have to buy a lot of alkalines to offset the rechargeable's cost that never lasts as long as they boast.
Hmmm... I think I'm going to side with Big Blue on this one.
IBM has more than enough resources to do extensive studies and even dedicate entire labs to fuel cell research. IBM, as with everyone else, is more than willing to make a buck -- if IBM says it's not going to happen, I'm willing to bet it's not going to happen.
Unless Lexmark decides to get into the fuel cell biz methanol isn't exactly expensive stuff. I'm sure the companies involved in making the fuel cells will void your warranty if you don't use their alcohol, but the only real risk to homebrew fuel would be catalyst contamination, and filtering should take care of than.
And at $200, who cares if the warranty gets all null and void.
the humanity ...
"And this is my boy, Sherman. Speak, Sherman." "Hello." "Good boy."
That could be more useful during those long flights than battery life.
Methanol itself is dirt cheap. It's a little more expensive than gasoline, and these fuel cells only use a 24% solution of methanol. 24% is less flammable than the vodka from the drink cart. Article says nothing about refilling, but the potential for profiteering is there by forcing people to buy prefilled fuel canisters just like with inkjets. Of course, the manufacturers will say that they just want to guarantee you the best quality fuel because who knows what impurities are in Brand X methanol mix that'll contaminate your fuel cell.
You can take a BIC lighter, but you cannot take a refillable lighter (not zippo, but the liquid fuel kind)...
I had one confiscated at the airport.... wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't a gift given to my girlfriend from someone in australia.....
Karnal
Isn't the laptop you carry now a potential weapon? Pretty dense and heavy, with sharp corners. Would make a nice dent in anyone's head.
And how about those hard, bony hands you have there? One good punch from those could knock someone out!
Or those teeth in your head! Sharp and hard and rigged up to a very strong and effective system of musculature -- you could maim with those things!
Better get rid of all of 'em.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
What's more, we had packed a canister of camping-stove fuel in one of our checked bags, and not until the fourth flight of our trip did we find out that it was a forbidden item and that we'd have to leave it behind. (Which, I should add, I don't have much of a problem with, since I can see the potential for disaster if the canister were punctured accidentally during baggage handling.)
Gotta agree with you about the perfume, BTW. Almost as obnoxious as sitting in front of a screaming baby on a red-eye flight.
Its more of a convience factor.
Are you really going to run out and get a new supply every x hours of computer time vs. plug into a wall socket? How easy will it to be buy the refills? Will it be only in specialty stores?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Also recall that most of the promising research being done (I would link newscientist.com, but the archives are restricted) in miniaturizing and stabilizing hydrogen fuel cells makes the thing pretty much inert in the entire process.
As far as a cigarette-sized reservior? Hydrogen sucks as an explosive. If you heated the container, assuming it was pure hydrogen, enough to cause it to combust, at best(worst?) you get bruises from the shrapnel
Right now, how does it work? I use my battery, and it gets low. Then I plug my laptop in and after a short time, the battery is "magically" refilled, and it didn't cost my any money (my electric bill, but that's a few cents max). I can recharge my laptop ANYWHERE I can find an outlet, which is just about anywhere.
Now for the fuel cell battery. I use my battery and it's gone. Now I have to recharge it with a new little lighter sized cartridge thing. I don't want to pay $5 for 'em. I don't want to pay $1 for 'em. If I got a few refillable fuel "cartridges" when I bought my laptop and some kind of home refuling station that would use my natural gas line or something, I would consider it, maybe. I'll take my 3 or 4 hour battery life over your 10 since mine is free. And when do I need 10 hours of battery life anyway? Most people probably don't, as they could probably find places to plug in by then.
So how do you get me to do something like this? Make a fuel cell battery that works with something like pure hydrogen and oxygen. It mixes them to make electricity and stores the water in a little compartment. Then when I plug my laptop into the wall, it uses the electricity to reseperate the water into hydrogen and oxygen and stores them back in their own little compartments. Basically a sealed system that works just like a standard battery. I really don't care what's in it, or how it works, but unless it works a LOT like a battery, I'm not terribly interested. I'm not paying for what I get for "free".
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Don't think burning hydrogen. Think of exploding a non-nitrate-based explosive aboard a plane. If you modified the battery so that it could contain both battery fuel as well as an explosive, you could slip right by airline security, even if they asked you to turn on the laptop.
So if you need to pop out the old battery to put a new one in, wouldn't that get a bit expensive? I'd rather have a battery that can only go 2 hours that I need to plug in to recharge overnight than to spend $20 a month in battery refills. Or are these refillable a la Zippo lighters?
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Trust me, that sounds as equally paranoid to an American.
Join Team Slashdot at Folding@Home
methanol isn't exactly expensive
Neither is black ink. But printer companies charge a load for it.
"prevent anyone for bringing toenail clippers aboard flights"
/ Pe rmitted_Prohibited_7_24_2003.pdf
Totally offtopic but before spouting off about airport security you might want to actually look up what you are allowed to having in your carry on bag. It may surprise you as to how wrong you are.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/interweb/assetlibrary
Exageration for the sake of humor is ok, but at least have your exagerations be based somewhat on facts.
I'm curious though... what is the average usage of a laptop... something tells me 12 watts is not enough.
The power supply to my lame 486 laptop is rated at 20watts. I don't know it's actual consumption, but keep in mind that that it has to charge the onboard battery as well. The same laptop has roughly 15 AA sized cells. I believe each cell was rated for 600ma, so roughly 10.8 watt to 13.5 watt depending on whether they were 1.2v or 1.5v.
12 watts sounds reasonable to me.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
This is excellent news to see technology like this becoming reality. Very inexpensive too, compared to some of the Sony batteries, heh.
"I've got to stop masturbating! It makes me too lazy! Stop it, Albert. Stop it." -- Albert Einstein
Almost as obnoxious as sitting in front of a screaming baby on a red-eye flight.
Well gee, I guess they can just drag the baby behind the airplane if you need to catch up on your sleep.
What a fucktard.
20$ an hour to run my laptop?
ill pass, but thanks.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
He was being sarcastic. Jesus, with an H, Christ.
The last few domestic (non-US) flights I have taken have been a hugs hassle getting through security. People taking off shoes and belts, etc to get through the metal detectors - having to get to the airport early etc.
They are even stopping cigarette lighter now so I doubt this is gonna be a really popular technology in AUS.
Before 9/11 I found it impossible to take my automatically inflatable life jacket on board one domestic carrier because of a 33gm CO2 bottle, even though there is one under every damn seat. Every yacht race I flew to or back from, well I just had to try and buy spare (not always possible). This carrier was a major yacht race sponsor.
I had taken the same life jacket through Heathrow, HK, Singapore, Athens...Sometimes still armed.
With the current worldwide paranoia, this is gonna be interesting.
And I have just taken the battery out of my laptop as I never use it on client sites and it's too bloody heavy.
Stopping myself...Abort (core dumped)
Totally hilarious - I just don't get these moderators.
perfume
tiger balm
tobacco (all forms except leaf tobacco used in salads)
children under 16
peanuts and peanut-based products
fat flight attendants
korean people (though a korean person could qualify for travel by avoiding the consumption of kim chee for 2 weeks)
terrorists
dirty hippies
fungi-fied feet
Anything I missed?
read anything on the subject before saying whatever comes to mind
Only Booze up to (I can't remember the exact number) 150 proof is allowed... high octane Bacardi or Everclear bottles are NOT allowed.
I can't imagining this costing too much. Unless the mixture has to be perfect and pure, various alcohols are pretty cheap. I can get a gallon of methonal for a few bucks and that should be quite a few refills when diluted and put in a lighter sized cell.
Your mental powers are stunning. Especially considering that the post was made entirely in earnest.
sitting next to DS
If they were actually that close to tapping the laptop market, they'd have more products for the desktop market. In particular, I'd like to see a UPS system that uses fuel cells and doesn't suffer from a "battery wear" problem. The battery in my first UPS went bad before it was even used once. Until I see results in other markets, there is no way I'm going to expect it to perform as advertised in a portable.
I just hope that the various manufacturers can standardize their cartridges so they become interchangable from one model laptop to the other !!! THIS would be a feature I'd pay for.
I got bad news for you.
They already know. Qantas sells adapters for their funny DC power sockets on international flights so that you can plug your laptop in.
Selling fuel cells would be a natural evolution and a money makers for domestic flights..
Then the convenience of the parent outweighs the comfort of the other 100 people in the cabin? I don't think the poster is too out of line to expect to get some sleep on a redeye.
The old Rocky and Bullwinkle show... And Sherman and Peabody; thank you for the reminder! :) Now, to the wayback machine....
I believe the second step you mentioned has already been accomplished...It's called "Transmeta Processors."
In Australian airports, any sharp metal object is banned from carry on luggage. Nail clippers, pliers, you name it.
I find it frikking annoying passing through security these days - take off my steel cap boots, maybe my belt, unload my phone, wallet, change etc. Take the laptop out of the bag. Pass everything through the x-ray, walk through the detector, then re-assemble my belongings. It gives me the shits!
Stupid thing is, there's plenty of things inside the cabin which would make just as effective a weapon as pliers or clippers. I dont know who they are trying to keep safe...
Exactly. I thought it was pretty cool until I RTFA and it said that you couldn't recharge by plugging in.
With the current batteries you only get 1.5-3 hours, but that means you have 1.5-3 hours away from a PLUG and then it costs nothing to refill (I often refill sitting at the airport while waiting for my flight). Now we're talking 10 hours but those are 10 hours away from a STORE or REFILL station, and then I'm going to have to pay some inflated amount for the refill. Stores and refill stations just aren't going to be as numerous as plugs. At least I don't see any store or refill station in my house for after I go completely wireless during an electrical storm.
This technology has the potential to be cool, but I tend to believe the actual coolness will be less than its potential.
that hurt!
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!
We have a winner!!!!
You can take a BIC lighter [on a plane]...
Hmm. Two plastic 'Bic' lighters, some bubblegum (chewed). And a thin piece of tape.
1)Stick the a lighter to a plane window horizontally.
2)Light the other one, use the tape to hold the button down so it stays lit.
3)Tape the second one under the first one in a loose 'T' shape.
4)The second lighter's flame will melt the plastic of the first one, causing an explosion which blows out the plane's window.
5)???
6)Profit.
... are all Japanese and Korean. Where are the US manufacturers with this technology? Dell? Apple?
I know this because Tyler knows this.
Electricity for recharge is almost free but you need to spend some time for recharge and most importantly rechargable batteries have finite life-cycle. With Li-Ions you lose much of the capacity after 500 charges. Therefore, one recharge price is price_per_battery/number_of_recharge_cycles. With $200 per battery and current battery life you get 40c per 2-3h of battery work. So fuel cell refill that gives you 10h of work for $2 might be competetive (it depends how durable the fuel cells are)
Save the bandwidth. Don't use sigs!
I'd drink to that
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Then the computer was all like beep beep boop
Booooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!!
and then my testicles were, like, gone.
The computer blew up my testicles.
I liked my testicles
They were really good testicles.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
Heh, bic lighters blow up with tremendous force, those flimsy jumbo jet windows wouldnt stand a chance!
Osama bin dumbfuck. Go back to korea
"Is how much do the refills cost? Surely, 100ml or whatever of methanol is going to last you for 10 hours, but what do you do then?
You can't regenerate it, so you go shopping for a refill?"
Kinda like those AA's you have in your walkman.
"Derp de derp."
I used to travel continuously for my business purposes; if I'm on a plane, that's some of the very rare stable peace and quiet that I can find for my favorite diversions, namely reading or programming. Every time some marketing geek starts bandying around the idea that their new battery technology will allow us to watch a full movie on a single charge, I have to wonder at people's stupidity.
If that's the whole reason you brought a laptop on that plane, you would be much better served to pick up a cheap portable DVD player, and keep your laptop in its case, or rediscover what people used to do before laptops: read. When you pull out that DVD player, or your laptop, for that matter, pretty soon the people next to you start getting nosy. Then they start getting intrusive, because you have presented them with a topic of discussion. Pretty soon, you're having conversations, and that treasured, sacred peace and quiet is shattered with forced contact with other people on the plane.
Call me a snob, but my first response to someone on a plane talking to me is to start methodically weighing the legal consequences of chucking them out the nearest emergency exit.
Weapons of Mass Analysis
If you want a plane ride without other people, charter a plane yourself.
Don't want to? Then put up with it, OK? It's tough enough getting through airports, security etc. with a small child without having whining assholes complaining that they can't get any sleep on the plane. Tough shit, I say.
While your work looking up fun facts got you /. Karma points, your facts are meaningless in the face of reality.
Have you taken a flight in the last year?
Regardless of what might get listed by some bureaucrat as officious information on a website, the drooling morons who hold up American air traffic in the name of Security make plenty of their own executive decisions.
Try flying one-way. That targets you as a special threat, and involves the removal of shoes, extra body searching, and other bullshit.
Kindly shove your internet fun facts up your ass and get outside occasionally for a dose of reality. Your reply was really more annoying than the Spell Checking Nazis. What a pompous ass you are.
Crap. I wasn't paying attention. Please ignore my 'like shopping for AAs' comment, I see what you mean now.
"Derp de derp."
Do they sell them, or do they "rent" them?
Selling them is cool, but lowers their profit margin.
I am not sure why but my spare cell phone battery always causes alarm when I go through security. On the x-ray it must have a bunch of sharp looking things inside or something.
I imagine memory cards look like razors under the x-ray.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Whoa, dancin santa you are the coolest dude I have ever known.
Remember me? I'm your fanboy, dancin santa.
Persons who feel they are the only ones who matter?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Historically, the wholesale cost for methanol in the United States over the past 20 years has been about 45 per gallon.
If this machine is using 24% methanol mixed with water, then 1 gallon of this Fuel Cell fuel should cost around 11 cents.
Basically a dime for a gallon, I'm assuming you that should last you a fairly long time. Probably cheaper than the electricity it takes to charge your laptop.
Long time, no see. I was wondering if you were still around.
-DS
http://hondacorporate.com/fcx/index.html
Laptops are nice, but I'm not choking to death on laptop fumes. Auto's first.
That's exactly what the list addresses. Every item on the list is an example of someone deciding that their convenience is more important than everyone else's on the plane.
Thanks for boiling it all down to a single point.
-DS
who finds this a little disturbing? I mean, I don't smoke, so I don't walk around with flammables in my pockets all day. Are these things going to leak? Blow up occasionally? Or what? I don't like messing around with my car engine, and fuel cells sound kind of ... car-engine-ish.
simon
home page
You mean the NiMH rechargeables that power it for about 20 hours or so of playback, and which I throw back in the charger overnight every few days?
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
At the size of a BIC lighter, there's no reason why you couldnt stick half a dozen of these in your laptop case. 60 hours away from a store is much more impressive - potentially a whole week worth of usage.
For a short trip, you could even leave your AC adapter at home and save the extra weight.
Now....i just hope the refills are cheap.
On the count of three you make an ink with the properties needed for an inkjet printer, and I'll make a methanol and water cocktail. We'll see who finishes first.
They pass through anything that lights up. Boot up your laptop, it might be a bomb! Oh the lights came on? Carry on then! Sheesh.
Exactly!
I mean, how hard would it be to make a fake laptop battery that was mostly packed with C4, but held just enough of a charge to boot your laptop once?
Explosives rely on the ratio of combustion, and the resultant production of expanding gases, to the failure rate of the container. When this is matched properly, even a small amount of combustable material can produce quite an effective "Pop".
the cellphone battery causes alarm because of the density it looks like explosives to the scanner.
The way I see it, the best thing for the industry to do is make the fuel cell be in the same form factor of a normal battery, that way for like around the house or office you use a standard rechargable battery. If you want to get on a 8 hour flight and or goto a coffee shop for a couple hours or whatever, something that you need more time than the average charge you bust out your long lasting fuel cell.
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
But it won't be backwards compatible, so that way you'll have to buy a whole new laptop. Almost guaranteed. I thought the 802.11g equipment would be retrofittable because the antennas were the same. Nope! New form factor! Either put up with an ugly dongle that ruins the point of having a laptop, or pay us $3000 for a new one.
Sheesh.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Yep, in very short order you're gonna see the fuel cell cartridges equipped with chips so that only the manufacturers' DMCA-protected, encrypted data-containing cartridges ($$$$$$$$) will work, you won't be able to refill them either for "safety" reasons. and they'll have an expiry date even if they're still full.
Posting this AC cuz it's totally off-topic, but when you mean "you are" it's "you're" not "your".
Yes, and when you've wound for one minute, the laptop rings and the LCD screen pops up!
All around the airplane seat,
The dorkus charged his PC.
The laptop was filled with charge,
POP! Goes the LCD.
my blog
12 watts would barely be enough to run the display on a modern laptop, much less the cpu, fan, and hard drive.
Try closer to 35 to 45 watts in a usable low power mode.
If you want a plane ride where you can bring a baby that will scream at the top of its lungs for hours on end, charter a plane yourself.
Don't want to? then fuck off, OK? Airports (and numerous other public places) are a big enough pain without a parent who thinks that their child is neccessarily everyone else's problem.
As the grandparent said, the conveince of one parent does not outweigh the need for 100 people to sleep.
If it means you can't take a noisy baby onto a plane, tough shit I say.
maybe not.
Are bic lighters allowed to be carried onto flights?
Maybe if the major PC corps lobby enough to allow fuel cells on flights it'll be ok. Isn't that why your not allowed to carry on nail clippers & cork screw's, but can take on lighters? The tobacco industry pressured the government about it, cause they didn't want to incontinence smokers.
You tried your best, & you failed miserably,
The lesson is:
Never Try
Have you ever been clipping your nails and had a piece of nail fly off and hit you in the eye?
Deadly!
The reason why fuel cells appear in laptops first and only later in cars is the price/power ratio:
Laptop : $2,000 / 100W = $20.00/W
Car : $20,000 / 100KW = $ 0.20/W
Since the area of the membranes used in fuel cells scales with peak power, they do not get significantly cheaper per watt in bigger units - at least not by two orders of magnitude.
Yeah, but there's no Krikkit (sp?) robots around here.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
So if we are to follow that line of reasoning they may start selling laptops at a loss just to get you to buy their overpriced cartriges? That could be another business strategy. (Although i have a feeling that most /.'ers will mod theirs the moment they get them). :)
Live for the present, learn from the past, and dream of the future!
The airlines could make money and increase security by selling fuel cell cartridges to passengers, who would be prohibited from carrying an open cartridge onto a flight, in case it had been tampered with so as to be useful as a weapon. First class passengers would, of course, receive theirs gratis.
Now if only the manufacturers could get together to decide upon standard sizes for fuel cells instead of the current completely incompatible array of laptop battery formats in use. Even of there is large, medium, and small formats for fuel cells, it will be a HUGE help to the consumer as third party competition will keep the prices down... which is of course why industries resist standards in such things.
I'm curious though... what is the average usage of a laptop... something tells me 12 watts is not enough.
Well, I've been reading about new 110 watt power supplies being designed because the existing 90 watt power supplies aren't good enough for the latest, fastest, and ever hotter chips being put in high-end laptops. Sorry, can't remember where I read it, but it was on a site like tomshardware.
I'm guessing most new laptops will need a lot more than the 12 of so watts that that fuel cell will give, especially considering that 12 watts is peak power. It'd be a shame for you to boot up a 3d game and have the laptop shut off because the voltage dropped too low.
'course you can get a lil one to run 10+ hours if you're using a 200Mhz Transmeta with no optical drive and a itty bitty 10" screen. I think that's what they mean by "it will last 10 hours." In reality I don't expect this bic lighter to last any longer than my current battery.
If I had a 2Ghz P4 I wouldn't expect it to last more than 2 hours.
My bet is that those 10 hour estimates rely on future expected power saving advancements (read: Vapor!).
Dimwit.
Booooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!!
Lithium ion cells are very dangerous - maybe more so. Something to think about.
And please, nobody hit your battery packs with a hammer. Bad things will happen and you could be seriously injured. Seriously. I made a mistake on a circuit board once and had a coin cell go off like a large metal jacketed firecracker.
..don't panic
arent they rather toasty?
as if that geforce 5600 go (or gf go 56 fx or wahtever the fsck they're calling them), the 7200 rpm hd and everything else isnt already toasty enough.
I suspect that if and when you become the parent of your own infant, and said infant needs to get from one coast to another, you'll feel differently.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Don't you think that the screen and keyboard are going to be the mitigating factors in laptop size?
Unless everyone's going to use Twiddlers ( http://www.handykey.com/ ) and retinal projection screens...
The facts have a liberal bias. --The Daily Show
I'm confused: are they refillable, or disposable? At 200 bucks a pop, you know what I'm hoping for.
Dell laptops use 70W adapters for stand alone and 90W adapters for docking station connections. I imagine it will just go up from there.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
And you can't detonate 'C4' (in your shoes...) with a match, like that one guy tried to do.
Even a week's not enough. Imagine having to pick up batteries as much as you have to go to pick up milk? And it wouldn't even be at a highly convientant place or with decent store hours.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Now, these laptops won't be running a Microsoft OS, will they? ZING!
I pray that when I become a parent that my common sense and decency would not dissolve into selfishness and rudeness.
Their jobs, of course.
Another HEAT SOURCE to contend with ... DANG
The picture shows a hydrogen canister, not a methanol cardridge.
Expect something more like this.
I predict that the first and best market for small fuel cells, and where the technology will incubate until it is ready to spread wider, is in hand tools for construction workers (e.g. house framers). They already use tools that chew through multiple battery packs in a workday. They also already have tools (nailers) that are both battery powered and have small fuel tanks that are used to generate small explosions. They are ready and willing to deal with fuel cells that might be noisy, hot, smelly, and perhaps even slightly dangerous. I'm sure they would welcome a tool that chewed through cheapy single-use methanol tanks, rather than having to carefully rotate through an assortment of battery packs every day, sometimes at a site without electrical service.
iMolotov Cocktail (tm)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"No mater where you go, there you are...about a block from Taco Bell. "
Pretty sure it's 'matter' dude.
In 10 years, laptops will be dirt cheap, and the disposable cartriges will be the main marketing gimmic.
Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
And just how do you plan on storing all that energy? Please don't say with a ribbon spring like those found in clocks. If you dropped something mechanical that stores that amount of KE, your looking at some serious damage caused by shrapnel!
Life is not for the lazy.
Yeah, God forbid that anybody with kids should ever want to travel. They should just lock up the kids until they hit 18.
Come to think of it, it's a pity they didn't start with you.
You've never been to Taco Bell or White Castle, have you?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Fuel Cell Laptop Batteries are so Passe...
What I'm waiting for next year is the Sony Vaio Car.
Picture a Purple Honda Prelude ('98-01 body style) with a body kit, and tons of bling*bling. Twenty inch chrome rims, and of course Sony Xplod stereo equipment, complete with MagicGate Memory Stick.
Actually, the Memory Stick will be your key. MagicKey.
Performance? You ask? Sure it performs, it's a sony! Any better than the competition? Of course! Better than SOME! Is the the best? HECK NO! Do people think it is? FOR SURE! Price? About $10K above the competition!
This is your brain on drugs. This is your brain on SCO. Ummm, what are we trying to show here?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The tests show a fuel cell lasting 10 hours. With the form-factor of a Bic lighter, it allows the laptop user to carry a few extra cells in the laptop bag all the time.
Is there some reason the fuel-storage portion couldn't be, say, much much larger than a bic lighter? I mean, 15-20x the capacity of a bic doesn't seem that much smaller than the batteries we use now, and 150-200 hours between refills is much more interesting to me...
In latest news..
10 geeks in a small gaming room suffocate
Yeah, God forbid that anybody with kids should ever want to travel. They should just lock up the kids until they hit 18.
I have a 9 month old. We do travel, although not by plane. And when I'm in a public place, such as a restaurant or auditorium and she starts crying, I take her outside.
Yeah, it takes a little more work to be a considerate parent, as evidenced by the minivan housewives who think it is ok to let an infant scream for 20 straight minutes in a restaurant.
They're going to be $200 each, which tells me they WILL be refillable by the user, because nobody is going to pay $20/hr in fuel cost to use their own laptop. Even inkjet printers can't get away with THAT level of gouging. (On the other hand, it's in the same price ballpark as present laptop batteries, so we aren't talking about massive up-front gouging either.)
They run on methanol (which is cheap, available over the counter in quantity, and already has enough applications to be widely available at least by mail order) and water (which is not only cheap, it's usually the very LAST public utility to fail in an emergency). Procuring the fuel ingredients will not be hard. And if you're going to be on the road a while, you'll be able to bring fuel with you.
I concur that it'd be nice if they could recharge from a plug. But on balance I'll still call this a major win if it's delivered somewhere in the general neighborhood of on-time and working even kinda sorta like the article says.
I wonder if anyone will be clever enough to make upgrades for exisiting laptops. I supposed they'd have to cut off the "recharge" lines, but otherwise I suspect it would be theoretically possible.
I also hope this won't discourage manufacturers from using less power! These fuel cell powered laptops will still need to spit out the same amount of heat (possibly more, with the fuel cell?). We need less power consumption in laptops...
What I assume will happen is some enterprising company like Port (now owned by Targus) will come up with a generic external variety fuel cell battery with interchangeable power tips (tm). This would allow folks to retrofit their existing laptops (and mobile phones, etc.) with this technology.
I know I would gladly buy a couple, one for the car, one for my laptop bag, with the power tips (tm) to cover my critical devices. Use them only in an emergency (like 10 minutes to go in your DVD movie and the battery dies). They will have to figure out the different voltage issue, but that seems very solvable.
The only athletic sport I ever mastered was backgammon - Douglas William Jerrold
this gives a whole new meaning to buffer-overflow ...
How much will the refueling cartridge cost?
Even if it costs you $2,- to recharge your Li-Ion battery pack, nobody has seen the bill for this.
It either adds to your home electricty bill, or you just use the stuff at work.
Now if the refill can be as cheap as $2,- (which I doubt!) people will have to go to the store and PAY for the stuff. That's going to be a big psychological barrier for lots of people: "I never paid for a recharge before....."
Roger.
"Methanol itself is dirt cheap. It's a little more expensive than gasoline" gasoline != cheap
it likely causes alarm because it IS explosive :-)
we'll end up using electric cars and fuel powered computers... evolution, sweet evolution...
And when I'm in a public place, such as a restaurant or auditorium and she starts crying, I take her outside.
;-)
And now we know why you don't travel by plane. Kinda hard to hang on to the wing y'know...
This may not be such a hot thing for people living in places where a quality power-grid exists (although I would certainly look at this as a "want to have" when purchasing a laptop). But I can see where it may be a way of powering equipment when there IS no power outlet nearby. Of course at the moment solar panels or generators serve that purpose but they aren't really as portable are they... Field research in Africa anyone?
oxford_thames@on.aibn.com
The best weapon and one they will never ban from airplanes is a broken bottle.
Grip the neck of the bottle like you would a baseball bat and breake it. You get a razor-sharp, multi-blade bad-ass piece of glass that looks like a Warcraft artifact. Gypsies use it all the time.
Funny thing is they never say a word about the bottles, it's maybe the biggest deal in aiport duty-free shops.
But they do take your nail-cutter. Sheesh...
http://twitter.com/gr
Surely somebody could just market a refiller like you get refiller aerosol cans for reusable lighters? 500ml can with nozzle that pokes into the fuel cell, give it a shot, and you're refueled?
Ok so we know that the big fuel cells companies will try to sit on top of this like homer_ca says, insist their brand can't be mixed. but surely somebody is likely to come out with the Taiwanese / Chinese made generic refillable version, hack the technology?
Not an engineer, so can somebody let me know if this is feasible or if I am missing a technical limitation here?
incontinence smokers
Yes thats the problem. They didn't want too many people waiting in line for the rest room because there was someone smoking in there.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
Let's try this again....
So, everybody is bitching about making a bigger cartridge than a bic lighter, and man I love to see all the engineers begin to pop up. Did anybody else stop to think that there's going to be a lot of overhead changing the powersource, and I don't know if you've noticed but a laptop doesn't exactly have a lot of room to work with, except, of course, where the battery currently sits. Perhaps a bic lighter is all the more "left over" room there was. Let's not play engineer when we don't know what we're talking about (and I'm simply proposing my thoughts, not saying this is "how it is").
Thank you, please drive through.
2004 release? Forgive me if I believe DNF will be available first.
That soon ?.
I was sick of crappy inkjets and crappy ink cartridges which were over-priced, so I bought a color laser printer.. Only $900, and I won't have to replace the cartridges in it for years.. haha
So, after you've expended the celll, are you left with vaporware?
That's like Apple claiming "up to 5 hours" of battery life on their notebooks, when in reality I get about 3-4 hours at most with all the power saving functions on. I was better off with my Dell since I had the option of replacing the CD drive with another battery and running "up to 8 hours" (actually 6 hours).
Well, at least 802.11g (new standard Apple adopted) is backwards compatible with 802.11b so you don't really have to buy anything unless you want more speed. I was also hoping I'd be able to upgrade (15'' PB owner) to 802.11g without having to buy a new laptop or any PCMCIA cards. There may yet be third party Airport compatible internal cards...
with the laptop screen off, I can run my laptop for about 4 hours, (once for 5) pumping A/V into the glasses.. ok for doom, better for dvd's I also have some movies on my camcorder tapes that I can watch with the glasses (I have two batteries for the glasses & camcorder) plus, I don't have to look at "you" or anyone else.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I was in Mumbai (Bombay) last year and curry powder could not be carried in the cabin. Curry powder in the eyes would be much like chilli-powder, not very pleasant, but still perhaps an overreaction.
See my journal, I write things there
I'm not really sure how it is elsewhere in the world, but once when I boarded a plane in the UK, I was one of the people selected for the extra security check. The security people asked each of us if we we're carrying a lighter. At first several people thought they'd have to get rid of their lighters. Apparently though, the security personel just wanted to make sure that if you had a lighter, you were carrying it on you and not in any luggage. The idea was that if for some reason it spontaneously exploded or caught fire in some way, since it was in your clothes, you'd feel it and extinguish it.
The fuel cells that last 10 hours and are the size of Bic lighters are a few years off.
Why not have both? When you are in areas that have easy access to the grid you swap in the traditional rechargable. When you are away from the grid you swap in a fuel cell.
I like the idea of a refillable/replacable fuel cell vs plugging in a laptop to recharge. Take current PDAs - I love my old Palm III which uses ordinary AAA batteries, because I can get new batteries anywhere and as long as they keep making AAAs, I can use my Palm. I have an old laptop and more than a few old calculators at home that will never run on batteries again because the internal rechargable battery has past its maximum number of charge/discharge cycles. Also, its a lot easier to toss a few extra disposable batteries into your luggage then to find a power outlet on an airplane to recharge your device with. Of course, this assumes that refills for the fuel cells are cheap and readily available.
Granted, there is probably some processing, but even analytical grade lab methanol isn't going to cost you that much more. The biggest part of the price will be the container--and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing refill-your-own fuel cell kits, like those that now exist for inkjets. Bonus: spilled methanol should evaporate cleanly, unlike printer ink....
~Idarubicin
Expect laptop system prices to eventually drop because of this technology. Any business knows that consumables are the real way to make a profit. Just like your inkjet printer that cost barely more than the refill cartidge (just so you don't just go buy a new printer with a starter ink cartridge), your laptop will cost a couple hundred dollars while its "official" and proprietary fuel cell refill will cost about $45.
In the long run, you'll spend much more on refills than on the original hardware, but the initial purchase will seem cheap.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
Replacing batteries with a whole new technology is wonderful.
However, somebody is going to make a frikkin' FORTUNE by creating an adapter that puts a fuel cell into a device that can mimic an existing battery.
Give people the benefits of fuel cell technology without having to buy a whole new laptop, and they'll fill your pockets with money.
$$$$ kaCHING $$$$
I fly all the time. I've got razors, fingernail clippers, tweezers, shaving cream, and other stuff in my carry on bags. I don't take my shoes off, I never get stopped at security to be searched and I never spend more than a few minutes going through checkpoints.
That list is more than just some bureaucrat information on a website, it is the official TSA website on what officially you are allowed to carry. If you want print it out and take it with you if they try to confiscate something. You still have rights you know. Just because you don't want to standup for yourself and would rather bend over and take it up the ass doesn't make you correct.
I have yet to see any, and I'm not sure how hopeful to be. I don't need the extra speed too badly at home but at work it would have been nice. Alas, no dice... yet.
g is pretty easy to make backward compatible because it's on the same frequency. a is not. But you still see a fair number of tri-mode routers out there.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Yeah but where do you fly? Six Flags?
But seriously, the stab taken to present Heightened Security is way over the top. If you aren't getting hassled, you probably don't know what being hassled is.
Like I said, try flying through a major airport, and for bonus effect, buy a one way ticket. And along the POINT I was making, bring a laptop and other electronics along with your website printout.
In the police state, you have no rights, so spare me the flag waving. The same government that failed to keep known terrorists out (INS) and has no idea where planes are (FAA) has simply let a bunch of morons loose to slow down air traffic and hassle people.
BTW: did you really mean to suggest that "bureaucrat information on a website" is NOT the same as "the official TSA website on what officially you are allowed?"
Ha! You are a funny man.
Honestly, how on earth will they let a fuel based laptop on a plane? Is it any safer than a chemical battery? Maybe both are just ticking time-bombs but it seems to me that bringing something on a plane that could be used in an explosive would be bad. Does anyone know if the type of fuel used in these batteries are explosive? Are they comparable to chemical batteries or more explosive?
What good is a 10 hour battery if you can't use on that flight to Hong Kong?
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Cool. Just spit in a hole and your laptop keeps running for a few more minutes...
Uh, yeah, but at $200 a battery those 6 batteries would cost close to what my laptop cost. I'm not worried about the size of carrying half a dozen batteries, but how much is that going to cost? And will I have to spend another $1200 on another set of incompatible batteries when I buy a new laptop?
1) Keep your rechargeable battery, and like everyone else, keep a fuel cell or two on hand for the times where you need them.
2) The hand tools isn't anywhere near as big a market as handhelds will be for those. Rather than having to change batteries every few days (or charge it every day), I would -much- prefer a fuel cell battery that should power the thing for a looong time! (not sure how long a laptop would last on a couple AA batteries but 10hrs for a laptop must be darn sweet for a handheld!)
BTW, by handheld I mean just that. Handheld. Can be a PDA, a phone, a Gameboy or whatever else...
Anonymous Coward who couldn't be bothered to signup for yet another board.
They might be counting time in binary when they say it will last 10 hours.
Would a laptop covered with solar cells on its top be able to recharge its batteries, say, for an extra 2 or 3 hours ?
It's a pity there isn't much fundamental research on improving the efficiency of solar cells : the market is huge !
I've flown many times through Chicago Ohare and Atlanta, during busy holidays and during not so busy weekends. So I think you'd agree those are rather busy airports. I've seen the crowds, I've seen people try and push through security, I've seen people try and rush and cut in line in security, I've seen people get pulled out of line and its all been because they were either acting rudely to the security people or they were wearing so much metal it set the alarms off. Protocol says if the alarms go off, you get searched. I even saw a guy at christmas time try and get a bag full of wrapped presents through security. Now all the news and signs and ticket people said at that time of the year...don't wrap your presents. The majority of the people that get hassled are extremely stupid people. They shouldn't be allowed to fly anyways.
All I meant by the TSA website PDF was that it indicates that it is the official "what you can and cannot carry" list. If its on the official list and they take if from you then you have a case...after all even they say its official.
The security now is no different than it was before. The only big difference is only ticketed people beyond security, and thats a good change. Everything else is still the same. The press and TSA want you to think its different, but it really isn't.
Dude, I would regularly get 1100kms (680 miles) in my normally aspirated 1989 diesel jetta. And it's a simple modification (kit is $700USD) to convert that car to run not on biodiesel, but on plain old fryer fat - the stuff McD's throws out by the gallon! How's that for efficient.
Well I can agree that "Security now is no different than before." We are not any more secure.
The difference is the insanity of long lines and extra empowerment of retarded security morons to hassle common people who are obviously no risk.
I fly through SFO, which is worse than smaller airports. The parking restrictions, the One-Way Silliness and the basic gestapo approach to pseudo-security are rediculous and all have zero effect on the ability of terrorists to cause major damage using planes or not.
You are obviously a middle american with a conservative twitch. "Everybody stand in line and do as we're told and it works best! The real problem is that Press!! Everything is great, hardly even an inconvenience to be searched."
Is EVERYBODY here just responding to the last
crappy Terminator movie? Recap: cyborg Ahhnold
(Republican!) throws his "fuel cell" out the car
window and as he drives away, it causes a massive
nukular (Republican spelling) explosion in the
desert.
I remember seeing that and thinking of how
screwed up it was to see a republican cyborg
driving a gas-guzzler and trying to scare America
away from cleaner energy sources. That movie is
the only contact most Americans will have with
fuel cells, and they blew it (literally) for
decades to come, I imagine...
Judging from the response of the Slashdotters so
far, I'd say the collective brain damage was
pretty severe!!
-- The Funk, The Whole Funk, And Nothing But The Funk
The average laptop today consumes approx 20 watt-hours. How do you tell? Simple, look at the size of the batteries. Most have approx 40-60 watt-hours of storage capacity and they usually power the laptop on average 2-3 hours. I have an enormous P4 16" LCD Sony Vaio (only one month old) and the battery lasts on average, about 2 1/2 hours. The battery has 65 watt-hours of storage. I can't imagine any laptop sucking more power than this behemoth.
This one is most promising
AC
Like, here?
Great idea, NOT. What airplane is going to let a potentially explosive device on board?
Yeah I suppose for the most part that's true. except I had a Pismo 400Mhz g3 that could last about 5 hour 20 Minutes pretty consistently. Granted that was with the screen at about half brightness while doing a bit of typing but it sure was nice to use it all day at school without having to carry around a power supply.
After 2 month abroad I was watching DVDs on it on the 11 hour flight home hand it made it through about a half hour of playing snood then one and a half James Bond DVDs (which are really cheap in Thailand).
Also one I left it asleep for 2 and a half months straight (This was just after I got my shiny new G4) and one day opened it expecting it to be dead but the green light stopped pulsing and went to a steady glow and a two month old photoshop project was still on the screen- wow.
Thinking back I shouldn't have sold it.
razor-like Flash memory cards
I think the point he was trying to make (maybe not, maybe I read too much into stuff) was that if you are inventive just about ANYTHING could be used as a weapon. So why can't we just be realistic about that and let us bring our rassin frazzin finger nail clippers and nail filers back on the airplanes again!!!!! No one is going to get away with hijacking a plane with a freaking nail file! Sheesh! As long as I got a couple hours to kill I want to file my nails. What's wrong with that?
(Well, the nail file thing was probably not part of his point but um.... anyway....)
(However, I'm all in favor of banning perfume. People who wear too much cologne/perfume smell worse that the bums who sleep in the gutter.)
(Yet another rambing post brought to you by posting randomly through meta-moderation.)
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