Slashdot Mirror

http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/

Also, an article on this story at Honda's website: http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050629.html

http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/

Also, an article on this story at Honda's website: http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050629.html

An article on the Honda site says "In December 2002, the city of Los Angeles began leasing the first of five Honda FCXs, which are now used in normal, everyday activities by city officials." ... "While the 2005 Honda FCX is our second-generation fuel cell vehicle (FCV), it is the first to be powered by a Honda designed and manufactured fuel cell stack."

So this is a meaningful trial and a significant step but it is far from the "first fuel-cell car on the road".

http://corporate.honda.com/environment/fuel_cells. aspx?id=fuel_cells_fcx
http://www.honda.co.jp/FCX/ (Flash in Japanese)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/hondas_mor e_pow.html (chassis)

http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050629.html (with family)

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2045?view=p&page=1&f irstcat=false&kw=05familyfcx (image gallery)

Enjoy!

http://corporate.honda.com/environment/fuel_cells. aspx?id=fuel_cells_fcx
http://www.honda.co.jp/FCX/ (Flash in Japanese)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/hondas_mor e_pow.html (chassis)

http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050629.html (with family)

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2045?view=p&page=1&f irstcat=false&kw=05familyfcx (image gallery)

Enjoy!

The Honda HES doesnt actually burn natural gas to produce the electricity: it extracts hydrogen from the natural gas, uses fuel cells to produce the electricity for the home and uses the waste heat from these processes to heat the house. Also note, they didnt say it was uber efficient, but would lower the total cost of electricity, gas and car fuel. I suspect savings on petrol play a big part there, but if natural gas is cheap enough, it could work out cheaper for the home to generate electricity from that, even if the process is less efficient than a power station. Some details here.

Honda makes a diesel that'll do 130 MPH, and get 92 MPG (not at the same time, mind you, but in the exact same vehicle though). It's not an overly-expensive interior-space-lacking hybrid, just a regular diesel, with an Accord body (looks like a normal car, not stupid-futuristic like a lot of "concepts" are). At the end of the quarter mile, the car is doing a dreadfully slow 54.198 MPH though. Acceleration isn't everything, but being able to get the hell out of the way of oncoming traffic and merge with a fast-moving freeway is necessary in many parts of the world. This would be on the dangerous end of slow acceleration for real-life driving.

-Jesse

This makes sense!

I used to have a Honda Prelude with the CVCC Engine. Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion. The engine ran so lean that the air/fuel charge could not be ignited with a normal spark plug. So it contained a small secondary chamber that was also lean but rich enough to ignite properly. The flame front from this small charge was swirled with the rest to achieve ignition in the "too lean" mixture.

Neat tech..

I don't know how far this thing is from production, but hondas Advanced Safety Vehicles is even scarier. It can brake and steer your car, it monitors your pluse and heart rate. It even record video of the inside of the car. Here's a link: http://www.world.honda.com/news/2005/c050902.html

Accord Hybrid: http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview .asp?ModelName=Accord+Hybrid&bhcp=1&BrowserDetecte d=True

255hp, 29/37 mpg

If you're in the city, something on the order of 50-125cc will only set you back about $1-2k, less if you buy used. They're easy to ride, alot more fun than driving a car, you'll get some fresh air, and you'll get 50-100 mpg.

If you're outside of the city, and\or have some extra cash and want something a bit more fun or powerful, try something like a Honda Silverwing. I've been riding one for a few years now, rain or shine, from 20 degrees to 100 degrees. 55mpg, 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds, and last time I was out in the desert and able to test it, a top speed of 111 mph. It'll cruise comfortably on the interstate at 80 mph with plenty of passing power. It's also still really easy to ride, though much more like a motorcycle than a scooter.

Try one of the new large displacement scooters if you want power and efficiency. 0-60 is usually around 4.5-5.5 seconds, top speeds a little over 100 mph, and mpg of around 50-60. I've been riding one for a few years now, and yes, the underseat storage is fine for a week's worth of groceries and more if you also add a top box or cargo rack to the tail. A decent rain suit will keep you dry in bad weather as well, so that's no excuse. I've also gone cross country on it from coast to coast. It's also unbelievably cheaper to insure than a car.

I found this honda concept kind of interesting, it is half scooter and half motorcycle.

Not at all, a hybrid is a hybrid. It uses the gas to run a combustion engine at the higher velocities of the highway: http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications _full_specs.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid&Category=3

The Spallino family, living in the Los Angeles area, will be among the first individuals to begin utilizing the first of California's Hydrogen Highway refueling stations, a statewide infrastructure build out underway to offer hydrogen refueling station access to private individuals.

Since the dawn of the Automobile Revolution, automobile marques have been proactive in their approach to appeal to certain segments of society. By targeting these groups, automakers would find a much higher loyalty rate in an increasingly unloyal industry. Even today this tradition continues, with companies such as Toyota appealing to the youth market with its Scion brand, BMW and Mercedes appealing to the affluent market, Buick appealing to the understated senior market, and Subaru and Volvo appealing to the aging hippy market. One demographic spoken for by a large multinational automaker that often raises a bit of controversy, however, is the gay and lesbian market. It is within these confines that Honda finds its must staunch loyalists.

The connection stems much further than their not-so-subtle "H" logo. Since the inception of Honda by founder Kilimanjaro Honda in Tokyo, Japan in 1948, Honda has had a long line of successful industry firsts. Honda's first products imported to the United States were motorcycles capable of producing almost twice as much horsepower as their American brethren. Sold out of a small shop in San Francisco, their demographic was clear. From day one, Honda coined the term "Crotch Rocket" to target the gay and lesbian community. It wasn't long before Honda had made its first inroads in gaining market share in the vital west coast community.

While commercially successful, Honda didn't wish to fight a one-front war against Christians. In 1962, Honda started producing the HX100, their first entry into the area of gas powered lawn mowers. This allowed residents to show off their sexual preference to neighbors when not commuting. The new market, however, was something Honda was not experienced in, and proved to be initially unsuccessful. Honda faced several lawsuits alleging their lawnmowers oxidized almost instantly when mowing over damp grass.

It wasn't before long that founder Honda realized that the next battle would have to be fought in the ever-expanding industry of automobiles. In 1972, Honda began offering the United States its first car, the Honda Civic. While industry brass wanted to call it the "Civic Lesson," for the lesson it was trying to teach regarding the homosexual agenda, "Lesson" was eventually dropped from the title before release. Honda's experience in the lawn equipment market proved beneficial in their foray into automobiles, as the first generation of Civic Lessons were powered by their 49cc lawnmower engines producing a then-respectable 20 horsepower.

The response from the homosexual community was very positive, and sales of Civic Lessons matched other popular rivals in the west coast market from Toyota and AMC. Initial figures had pinned sales at achieving a 53% homosexual rate of buyers of Civic Lessons, a figure that has yet to be beat. The Civic Lesson proved to be a remarkable car for the homosexual market, as these families did not have any children and thus did not need room for a back seat. Honda foresaw new potential, however, with gay and lesbian

Since the dawn of the Automobile Revolution, automobile marques have been proactive in their approach to appeal to certain segments of society. By targeting these groups, automakers would find a much higher loyalty rate in an increasingly unloyal industry. Even today this tradition continues, with companies such as Toyota appealing to the youth market with its Scion brand, BMW and Mercedes appealing to the affluent market, Buick appealing to the understated senior market, and Subaru and Volvo appealing to the aging hippy market. One demographic spoken for by a large multinational automaker that often raises a bit of controversy, however, is the gay and lesbian market. It is within these confines that Honda finds its must staunch loyalists.

The connection stems much further than their not-so-subtle "H" logo. Since the inception of Honda by founder Kilimanjaro Honda in Tokyo, Japan in 1948, Honda has had a long line of successful industry firsts. Honda's first products imported to the United States were motorcycles capable of producing almost twice as much horsepower as their American brethren. Sold out of a small shop in San Francisco, their demographic was clear. From day one, Honda coined the term "Crotch Rocket" to target the gay and lesbian community. It wasn't long before Honda had made its first inroads in gaining market share in the vital west coast community.

While commercially successful, Honda didn't wish to fight a one-front war against Christians. In 1962, Honda started producing the HX100, their first entry into the area of gas powered lawn mowers. This allowed residents to show off their sexual preference to neighbors when not commuting. The new market, however, was something Honda was not experienced in, and proved to be initially unsuccessful. Honda faced several lawsuits alleging their lawnmowers oxidized almost instantly when mowing over damp grass.

It wasn't before long that founder Honda realized that the next battle would have to be fought in the ever-expanding industry of automobiles. In 1972, Honda began offering the United States its first car, the Honda Civic. While industry brass wanted to call it the "Civic Lesson," for the lesson it was trying to teach regarding the homosexual agenda, "Lesson" was eventually dropped from the title before release. Honda's experience in the lawn equipment market proved beneficial in their foray into automobiles, as the first generation of Civic Lessons were powered by their 49cc lawnmower engines producing a then-respectable 20 horsepower.

The response from the homosexual community was very positive, and sales of Civic Lessons matched other popular rivals in the west coast market from Toyota and AMC. Initial figures had pinned sales at achieving a 53% homosexual rate of buyers of Civic Lessons, a figure that has yet to be beat. The Civic Lesson proved to be a remarkable car for the homosexual market, as these families did not have any children and thus did not need room for a back seat. Honda foresaw new potential, however, with gay and lesbian

Japan's lunar robots would do work such as building telescopes and prospecting and mining for minerals

And giant robot overlords. I for one welcome our giant Japanese lunar robot overlords. All hail MechAsimo!

I'd definitely say it would be a good idea to remove your CBR before going on an interview or something. You'd look like you were sitting funny if you didn't...

Yeah, but the interior on the Pruis is much nicer than a Civic or a Corolla. It's roomier too. Sure people buy it to make a statement, but the same goes for an Audi.

Maybe if we compared the Prius to a Camry or something with a comparable trim level...

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. But it's somewhat apples and oranges. Now if you want to talk about a Honda Civic vs. a Honda Civic Hybrid, then I'm game.

Yeah, but the interior on the Pruis is much nicer than a Civic or a Corolla. It's roomier too. Sure people buy it to make a statement, but the same goes for an Audi.

Maybe if we compared the Prius to a Camry or something with a comparable trim level...

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. But it's somewhat apples and oranges. Now if you want to talk about a Honda Civic vs. a Honda Civic Hybrid, then I'm game.

The CRV is already designed and built

I doubt that voice controlled Robosapians will make robots must have household items, but it gets us to maybe generation-3 home robots with only a couple of more generations before they explode in usefulness and ubiquity.

In about 1980 Heath-Kit tried to make a generation 1 home robot take off in popularity - the HERO 1 - it didn't succeed. A shaky low mobility box manually programmed with a small keypad was no ones' idea of a personal 3PO or R2-D2, though Heath certainly was hoping to cash in on both the early computer craze and Star Wars popularization of robots.

Personal robots largely disappeared from public view until Honda of all people pioneered and popularized a walking robot - the P2 (of course P2 was far too expensive to be a personal robot). I was only aware of the P2 and P3 before Asimo, but this link shows a long research line stretching back to 1986 with the E0 through E6 predecessors to the P series. Still when one saw the P2 walking in 1993, one got the feeling we were on the edge of big things to come. Sadly things have not progressed quite as quickly as one might have expected. Like AI, making practical personal robots is proving to be quite challenging. Hopefully voice control in such an inexpensive walking robot takes us a little further along the curve.

Honda did set up an experimental filling station for fuel cells run entirely by photocells
http://world.honda.com/news/2001/c010710.html

Not True.

Honda, currently has 3 hybrids gives its battery pack comes with an 8-year/80,000-mile warranty.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview .asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid

Ford, who has the Hybrid Escape gives the hybrid components a warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles. In the Green States of California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, and Vermont the traction batteries are warranted for 10 years/150,000 miles.

http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/RT2005FordEscapeHybri d.htm

I think the new 255 hp hybrid Accord shows that it isn't a putty little economy item.

That's close to what I was going to say (but simpler). You beat me to it; That'll teach me to wander off and actually do work.

Unfortunately, taxing by mile does not take into acount that some vehicles inherently put more wear on the road than others. It'd be quite unfair to assign the same road maintenance cost/mile to a user of a Honda Nighthawk or Geo Metro as a Ford Super Duty.

In a hybridless all fossil-fuel powered economy, fuel consumption is an acceptable proxy for road wear. Unfortunately, this goes out the window when hybrid and non-fossil fuel powered vehicles are introduced. One way to get around this might be to scale the mileage tax by the mass of the vehicle. Unfortunately this doesn't distinguish between those who use their Ford Super Duty to commute and those who use it to haul rocks around. Both pay the same amount for "road wear" despite the fact that the rock hauler is doing a lot more wear than the commuter.

Then again, it may serve as a dis-encentive to using a vehicle like the Super Duty to commute, which would be a good thing.

It also doesn't distinguish between mileage used in the taxable jurisdiction, and that used in other jurisdictions.... long-haul truckers are unfairly punished.

.. a beowulf cluster of Asimo, Qrio and Aibo attack bots running the latest Quake 3 Avida mod

Don't forget aircraft and jet engines.

p

Don't forget aircraft and jet engines.

p

I was just thinking the same thing. Honda announced that they would have a team of Asimos that would be able to win the world cup someday.

For example, "high performance" in the automotive world means big displacement, turbochargers, big valves, and the like

That's because the 2010s oil crunch hasn't happened yet. "Performance" will come to mean miles per gallon for a given payload, and generator-braked vehicles such as the Honda Civic Hybrid will dominate for passenger and grocery payloads. And as oil prices go up, electricity prices will probably go up as well, making instructions per kWh a valid measure of performance. So Freaking What(tm) if each individual core is slow if you can Beowulf the shit out of them?

Why dosen't Honda sell the Asimo? That's the coolest freaking robot ever.

I am referring to the much less publicised emission, efficiency and tax band rankings (UK, DE, a few others).

Either provide a link, or at the very the least, the title of the report.

[Me:] I'm not at all familiar with the three models you cited from Daihatsu and Toyota. Are they midsized (like the Prius), compact (like the Honda Civic), or subcompact (like the Honda Insight)? I just want to make sure it's a fair comparison.

[You:] (silence)

You didn't address this concern at all. I suspect you are comparing a midsized sedan to subcompact models. Even the Civic isn't a perfect comparison to the Prius since the Civic is a compact sedan. Still, it's the nearest-class competitor, so...

Double check the latest Civic specs. Honda has also updated the Civic engine train with the improvements that will go into the Hybrid Accord. It is just no as loud as Toyota about it. It now delivers 67+ mpg highway which is clearly better then the Toyota. In fact it is the only hybrid that approaches diesel as far as highway MPG are concerned.

No, you double-check. The fact sheet linked from that page states that the '05 Civic Hybrid (page 3) gets EPA results of 46/51 with the manual, 48/47 with the CVT. Your 67+ MPG is a made-up number. Also, here's a direct comparison between the two cars.

Also, as I pointed out in another comment, comparisons with diesel are not fair since diesel fuel has higher energy content than gasoline (130000 BTU per gallon, vs. 115000). Add about 13% to the gasoline car's MPG numbers before you start to compare apples and oranges on technical merits.

I think your probably mistaken. A hybrid costs feature for feature with a like model non-hybrid ~$1500 more. Check the Civic EX compared to Hybrid, feature for feature nearly identical with the only diffrence being the Hybrid motor design.

Note I said when. It was years ago that I checked. The prices have come alot closer, I will admit.

And why do you pick the Civic EX, the most expensive gasoline model? Looking at feature simularity (without going out and test driving, of course), the Civic LX, retailing at 15,760, seems to be a better match versus 19,800 for the Hybrid

That's a difference of $4040. Or over 2000 gallens of gas at $2. If you assume that you'd get 25mpg with the traditional engine, you'll have to pile up almost 140,000 miles to make up the difference. Hope you're keeping that car around for a while! Now the LX has an EPA estimate 0f 32/38. If you figure that you'd get the 32mpg, that ups the milage required to 180,000.

I do lots and lots of highway driving. Hybrids have some work to do...

*Note: Your math might differ depending on the various rebates, tax breaks, and such available at the time. Individual situations will vary.

I think your probably mistaken. A hybrid costs feature for feature with a like model non-hybrid ~$1500 more. Check the Civic EX compared to Hybrid, feature for feature nearly identical with the only diffrence being the Hybrid motor design.

Note I said when. It was years ago that I checked. The prices have come alot closer, I will admit.

And why do you pick the Civic EX, the most expensive gasoline model? Looking at feature simularity (without going out and test driving, of course), the Civic LX, retailing at 15,760, seems to be a better match versus 19,800 for the Hybrid

That's a difference of $4040. Or over 2000 gallens of gas at $2. If you assume that you'd get 25mpg with the traditional engine, you'll have to pile up almost 140,000 miles to make up the difference. Hope you're keeping that car around for a while! Now the LX has an EPA estimate 0f 32/38. If you figure that you'd get the 32mpg, that ups the milage required to 180,000.

I do lots and lots of highway driving. Hybrids have some work to do...

*Note: Your math might differ depending on the various rebates, tax breaks, and such available at the time. Individual situations will vary.

Sorry your off by 550-950 lbs.

check
Honda DX/LX/EX weight 2449 lowest 2668 highest

Honda Civic Hybrid 2675 Lowest 2749 highest

Just for refrence the Hybrid is nearly option for option with the EX or Highest model of the civic.

Sorry your off by 550-950 lbs.

check
Honda DX/LX/EX weight 2449 lowest 2668 highest

Honda Civic Hybrid 2675 Lowest 2749 highest

Just for refrence the Hybrid is nearly option for option with the EX or Highest model of the civic.

...I'm sure this record will easily be crushed by the new Honda Accord hybrid. 240 hp 3.0L engine, plus electric motor, does 0-60 in under 7 seconds IIRC. With the speed limiter removed (and no other mods like ice cooling, ferchrissake), I'll bet it does 150 mph easy.

...will probably not have a problem meeting or beating this record when it hits the streets. Its got a 255hp V6 that gets 37/29 mpg (highway/city). 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid info

The haptic interface is not to give a lareg degree of motions. Force-feedback is what is critical. Controlling and balancing an entire body in combat is going to be next to impossible, unless the thing is statically balanced -- in which case it will have all the dexterity/manuverability of a walrus on dry land. But for *real* humanoid to humanoid combat at a large scale, the movements are going to have to be dynamically balanced. If you could work up a full bady haptic interface, you could then use a person's natural control system to do this work.

An alternative would be to control the robot like a fighting video-game character, and actually have the robot itself do the fine coordination of movement and balance. But such tech is on the level of Honda's Asimo. I somehow doubt that this guy can muster that!

Until Asimo appeared, there were no self-balancing two-legged robots.

Honda themselves disagree, never mind that there also have always been a number of (little-known) academic research projects around the world in this area since the 60s.

American universities had given up on the idea.

Oh, is that why MIT started work on M2 in 1998, two years before ASIMO came out?

Look, I do not deny that ASIMO has captured the public's imagination and done a great deal to popularize this field. However, it wasn't the first to do much of anything, it's just (along with Qrio) the most lavishly funded and hence prettiest show-off biped.

I still haven't seen a working self-balancing bipedal robot of American design

Well now you have. You're welcome.

A hit to their home page shows that they have quite a few products outside the car market. It's a forward thinking thing. They expect some day robots will be as common as a lawn mower.

I'm sure ASIMO is homage to Asimov, but it's also an acronym for Advanced Step in Innovative MObility (Here's the link). I wonder how long they took to come up with that one...

Honda is a very forward thinking company though. They used to only make mopeds, now they make cars and trucks. They even have jets in the works.

Asimo's been in the works for a while. It's been autonomous since the P3 (not pentium) in 1993.

Check out their history.

movement of new asimo looks very fluid. check out him running and chasing a Japanese chick. it is incredible. this made me wonder if someone would begin using robots in the medical field in the next decade or so.

movement of new asimo looks very fluid. check out him running and chasing a Japanese chick. it is incredible. this made me wonder if someone would begin using robots in the medical field in the next decade or so.

You can see videos of Asimo in action (including his new "tricks") at the Honda site.

You paid the equivalent of $32,000 for what amounts to a beer can on wheels, with an engine that would be considered undersized on a motorcycle and generates less power than the lowest-horsepower non-hybrid car available in the US?

Do you realize that for that kind of money, we in the US can get a Honda S2000 - a two-seater with well over twice the horsepower, nearly twice the torque, actually looks like a car, and doesn't have a turbocharger to decrease engine life?

Or, for $2000 less, we can get a brand new Mustang GT with all the options, three times the horsepower, over three times the torque, and twice the seating.

Either of these will run circles around the "Smart Roadster-Coupe Brabus." Hell, even my "other car", a 1991 Nissan Sentra, with baseline 1.6L engine and automatic transmission, will do 120mph - with 250,000 miles on the odometer. Yes, I've verified this; the rev limiter kicks in at about 122mph. And its book value is somewhere around $1500. 120mph ability may be something to brag about elsewhere, but at least in this part of the US it's generally considered a bare minimum, though acceleration is more important. Get on I-285 in Atlanta sometime - you have about 100 meters of ramp, and then you'd better be doing at least 70mph or you're a greasy spot on the guardrail.