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Ugh. Come on, dude. Google is your friend when it comes to this kind of thing. It is not horribly difficult to find the incident that the GP was referring to. Even if the sources are biased, it serves as a launchpad to discover the truth. As for your "one isolated incident" rhetoric, that also happens to be one of the great things about the internet. You can find out things that some people don't necessarily want you to know. As for what to make of it all, you have to judge the evidence and draw your own conclusions.

I think this is most likely a case where statistics are used to bring awareness to a "problem" that doesn't really exist.

If you had done just a little bit of research you would have known that this is not the case.

"Out of a total population of 1,976,019 incarcerated in adult facilities, 1,239,946 or 63 percent are black or Latino, though these two groups constitute only 25 percent of the national population. The figures also demonstrate significant differences among the states in the extent of racial disparities." (Race and Incarceration in the United States, hrw.org, February 27, 2002) This information came from the 2000 US Census report.

This is, of course, why I also said "While less than one percent of the population is in prison, nearly five percent of the black population of the US is incarcerated." The point was to say that yes, there is disparity. But now you have another data point to which you may refer.

I think this is most likely a case where statistics are used to bring awareness to a "problem" that doesn't really exist.

If you had done just a little bit of research you would have known that this is not the case.

"Out of a total population of 1,976,019 incarcerated in adult facilities, 1,239,946 or 63 percent are black or Latino, though these two groups constitute only 25 percent of the national population. The figures also demonstrate significant differences among the states in the extent of racial disparities." (Race and Incarceration in the United States, hrw.org, February 27, 2002) This information came from the 2000 US Census report.

This is, of course, why I also said "While less than one percent of the population is in prison, nearly five percent of the black population of the US is incarcerated." The point was to say that yes, there is disparity. But now you have another data point to which you may refer.

Yes, because Russia and China are well-known for both their internet freedom and their unwillingness to kowtow to the RIAA and its ilk. Nowhere is safe.

Uh, no, I haven't been to Abu Ghraib. I have read some material published by human rights watch though. Scary stuff.

I'd be thrilled to hear more of what you have to say about Abu Ghraib though.

I get tired of adding this reference to where I showed you wrong

I get tired of adding this reference to where I showed you wrong

Actually, it's illegal to insult the president in France also. Nobody else, just whoever the current President of France is.

Really? Reminds me of Venezuella.

One political dissident in China was imprisoned for 13 years in a psychiatric hospital.

That the Chinese government imprisons an Internet addict at the request of his own parents should surprise no one. The Chinese, not merely the government, regularly abuse psychiatry to achieve social or political goals.

The Chinese entity that is psychologically ill is not the Internet addict, the political dissident, or the other victims improperly imprisoned for supposed psychological problems.

Rather, the Chinese entity that is psychologically ill is Chinese society itself.

There are millions of Palestinian refugees who have had their homes bombed or bulldozed. Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians at a time , NOT in a year.

Hundreds dead at a time?! Millions of homes destroyed?! Oh, no references? Strange... not.

Here is what HRW, a known Israel critic, has to say:

As of October, the number of Palestinians killed in 2006 by Israeli security forces had reached 449, at least half of whom were not participating in hostilities at the time of their deaths, raising serious concerns for civilian protection. The Israeli army's continued failure to conduct investigations into most killings of civilians reinforced a culture of impunity in the army and robbed victims of an effective remedy.

That means 449 for most of 2006, which was a very active year. Your claim of hundreds a time is idiocy -- Hell, you give stupid a bad name! You can't be this stupid and handle a keyboard. You must be a troll or have mental problems.

Can you give good references to any of your claims? At all?!

And the millions of houses... is there a million houses in the Palestine areas totally?! What a nitwit you are!

First you claimed that a democracy (Israel) is worth a thousand times more criticism than most any country (not other democracy) on the planet! Then you make idiotic claims re Syria, one of the worst dictatorships in the world!

Now you specifically claim that despite your insane claims about genocide etc done by democracies that you're not a useful idiot for the dictators?

Syria is one of the world's worst breakers of human rights and police states is worse than any democracy? How about some references, you lying idiot troll? This is what the well-known Israel-critic, HRW, has to say about Syria.

(I didn't read the rest. You are already shown to be a liar without neither a clue nor a reference.)

There are millions of Palestinian refugees who have had their homes bombed or bulldozed. Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians at a time , NOT in a year.

Hundreds dead at a time?! Millions of homes destroyed?! Oh, no references? Strange... not.

Here is what HRW, a known Israel critic, has to say:

As of October, the number of Palestinians killed in 2006 by Israeli security forces had reached 449, at least half of whom were not participating in hostilities at the time of their deaths, raising serious concerns for civilian protection. The Israeli army's continued failure to conduct investigations into most killings of civilians reinforced a culture of impunity in the army and robbed victims of an effective remedy.

That means 449 for most of 2006, which was a very active year. Your claim of hundreds a time is idiocy -- Hell, you give stupid a bad name! You can't be this stupid and handle a keyboard. You must be a troll or have mental problems.

Can you give good references to any of your claims? At all?!

And the millions of houses... is there a million houses in the Palestine areas totally?! What a nitwit you are!

First you claimed that a democracy (Israel) is worth a thousand times more criticism than most any country (not other democracy) on the planet! Then you make idiotic claims re Syria, one of the worst dictatorships in the world!

Now you specifically claim that despite your insane claims about genocide etc done by democracies that you're not a useful idiot for the dictators?

Syria is one of the world's worst breakers of human rights and police states is worse than any democracy? How about some references, you lying idiot troll? This is what the well-known Israel-critic, HRW, has to say about Syria.

(I didn't read the rest. You are already shown to be a liar without neither a clue nor a reference.)

Oh, it's no big deal, at least in your world. Where is that, by the way?

They do, don't they?
Iran has freedom of the press....well, if you only read the government approved press,sure.
Iran has freedom of religion.... sure, if you're Muslim..otherwise, you're dead.
Iran has freedom to assemble with your friends....as long as they all agree with the Mullahs.
Iran has freedom for women to be educated, manage their own lives and.... hmmm...never mind.

Can you quote a source where a US Government official has said "we don't give a shit about international treaties"? I'd like to see it, because it doesn't exist. See, some treaties would deny the US its sovereign powers, and give more power to the fine leaders of Iran, like President Ahmadinejad who says Israel should be wiped off the map. Can you offer a link to a quote where Bush, Cheney or any government official ever said "we don't give a shit...?" If the US refuses to be part of any treaty preventing the "militarization" of space, it's in our best interest because it must mean Iran or other non-democratic states will have more power.

Middle-aged communist bureaucrats and ponytailed young Cuban programmers applauded as the computer scientist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology insisted that copyright laws violate basic morality; he compared them to laws that would threaten people with jail for sharing or modifying kitchen recipes.

Stallman also warned that proprietary software is a security threat because without being able to examine the code, users can't know what it's doing or what "backdoor" holes developers might have left open for future entry. "A private program is never trustworthy," he said.

Middle-aged communist bureaucrats and ponytailed young Cuban programmers applauded as the computer scientist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology insisted that copyright laws violate basic morality; he compared them to laws that would threaten people with jail for sharing or modifying kitchen recipes.

Stallman also warned that proprietary software is a security threat because without being able to examine the code, users can't know what it's doing or what "backdoor" holes developers might have left open for future entry. "A private program is never trustworthy," he said.

Nothing has changed in the Hebrew Calander, not for as long as their have been Hebrews. The western calander has changed to correct problems with the dates, but not with the days of the week. When they corrected the calander in England they went from Wendnesday the 2nd of Febuary to Thursday the 14th, no change in the days of the week, just the days of the month.

See here: http://www.genfair.com/dates.htm

You are mistaken about the way the US handles rights. You see, we as individuals are indowed with inalienable rights as put in our Declaration of Independence (which is NOT law) and then we in turn consent to being governed in the Constitution, which is law. No right from a Diety to govern over us is given to the government, that power comes from "We the People" and we may remove at any time through several mechanisms.

Individual leaders may have personal connections with their God, but in America that has no bearing on their right to rule. It may, or may not, give them the vison to lead the country better.

Iran as a theocracy that works is a highly debatable example given it's history in the last 40 years. In fact, I would give it and the Taliban as a prime example why Theocracies are a really bad idea.

http://www.hrw.org/worldreport99/mideast/iran.html

Unless, of course, you are saying that things would be EVEN WORSE in Iran if it was under a non-theocratic dictatorship like Iraq was until recently. I might accept that arguement, but I am not sure you would win anything by making that case.

"I would imagine that starving people in the Sudan, or wherever they end up distributing these things, will pass them of in a heartbeat if it gets them a meal for a day"

The people of Sudan and elsewhere are starving because of continual civil war brought on by the use of other technology sold them by the west, namely GUNS. Providing them with the OLPC and a meal are not necessarly mutually exclusive.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/
http://www.ecosonline.org/back/aboutus.html

Is this really the best idea (Score:1)

It's baffling to me why a country that has consistently and fairly been compared with Nazi Germany, to the point of concentration camps and illegal medical experimentation, has been allowed to exist for this long. Drudge reported this morning that they're prepping another nuke test, and it's a well-known fact that they've been developing chem and bio weapons for years. A new Hitler has risen, and we are so busy looking elsewhere that we either haven't noticed or don't care.

Dear Americans,

Thank-you for your concern. Unfortunately you seem to forget that we have been dealing with terrorism in western Europe - notably, Spain and the UK - for several decades. Indeed, the Irish Republican bombing campaign was largely funded by an American charity.

We've already seen massive loss of personal privacy to cope with that, including the world's largest CCTV camera to population ratio, imprisonment without open trial and even imprisonment with no trial whatsoever, plus a chip & pin payment system that ensures all CC payments are made electronically trackable rather than the old paper-and-ink slips.

And d'ya know what? Journalists complain, activists complain, but the vast majority of common people just carry on voting those kinds of laws back in. Because this loss of privacy actually does seem to save lives.

But the oddest thing of all, is that you guys aren't doing the thing that saved the most lives. Y'see, the thing that actually brought the Northern Ireland bombing campaign to a close was, we negotiated with the terrorists.

When pressure came from Human Rights Watch the US government's response was to pass a "Prisoner rape elimination act" the chief result of which was to commission a study by one Mark Fleisher, who concludes that, get this:

sexual pressure ushers, guides or shepherds the process of sexual awakening.

This should have topped the list and of course, since American technologists don't count (just look at the H-1b and outsourcing riots trashing their ability to support families) it didn't appear anywhere

That would have been brilliant if his henchmen hadn't been killing farmers at the same time, thus restricting the country's ability to produce its own grain.

Your Amnesty International link seem to be to the 2003 report. It would probably also be a good idea to provide the links the US reports as well, since you are (presumably) doing a comparison. A good summary is that you don't want to be in the wrong group in either country:

Iran:
amnesty international
human rights watch

US:
amnesty international
human rights watch

It's also worth remembering, whenever Iran is being discussed, that the present government is a fairly direct outcome of Operation Ajax, in which the US and Britian overthrew the original (and very progressive) Iranian democratic government and installed a very brutal dictator (the Shah) because Iran planned to nationalize its oil (which was the result of, amongst other things, them being denied the right to even audit British Petroleum's books).

Your Amnesty International link seem to be to the 2003 report. It would probably also be a good idea to provide the links the US reports as well, since you are (presumably) doing a comparison. A good summary is that you don't want to be in the wrong group in either country:

Iran:
amnesty international
human rights watch

US:
amnesty international
human rights watch

It's also worth remembering, whenever Iran is being discussed, that the present government is a fairly direct outcome of Operation Ajax, in which the US and Britian overthrew the original (and very progressive) Iranian democratic government and installed a very brutal dictator (the Shah) because Iran planned to nationalize its oil (which was the result of, amongst other things, them being denied the right to even audit British Petroleum's books).

Comparing freedom in Iran and freedom in the US is asinine and you know it. Yes, the US is not perfect, but at least we don't hang children.

Yes, the US is far from perfect, but to imply that we are no better than Iran when it comes to human rights sickens me.

Human Rights Watch Iran
Amnesty International Iran

Take your jaded world weariness and shove it up your ass. The USA has problems, but comparing it to Iran with a smirk and a shrug is the opposite of helpful.

You could point to other factors as well. There has also been a shift to service jobs, which also includes retail, hospitality and so forth. These are not higher paying, more productive jobs. They are also jobs that people in higher economic strata need.

We have a progressive tax because people that benefit more from society (e.g., they can spend their time being a surgeon rather than cleaning their house) should pay more tax. I don't agree with the idea that a progressive tax is penalizing people for success. It is contributing some of the income to society, so everyone can share in the benefits - including the person cleaning their house. It is in no way punishing success. It is sharing the benefits with all the people that have made success possible.

As for the other point, discrimination is widespead. Everything from women being paid .75 cents for every dollar a man earns to country of origin bias. An obvious example, think of the government and the media's response to Katrina. Racism is institutional, you think it is a coincidence that the U.S. population is 12.3% black and the population of federal and state inmates is 43.9% black? I call it what it is - racism. Ever think of what your income potential is as an ex-prisoner? If it exists in such an obvious way in our justice system, do you think it might exist, but be slightly less obvious, on the job - especially since corporations, like government, tend to be run by older white men? I think it is safe to assume it is there - even if we personally might not see how it manifests itself (since we aren't the target).

You have made some good points. I do think education opportunity is important. However, I don't think it alone will solve the larger problem - which is poverty. I also think that trying to use education to address poverty is problematic public policy since poverty itself is a barrier to education.

Probably not, but this kind of argument ignores the culpability of the person who downloaded the file. They very well knew, or should have known, the consequences of their actions but they did it anyway. It also ignores that fact that downloading that MP3 is directly opposed to the content creator's wishes, as evidenced by the fact that he chose to sign a distribution contract with an **AA company. If we are actualy concerned about protecting the artist rather than securing free content for ourselves it might be wise to let him choose how to deliver his product.

The idea that an artist can't be motivated by money and still produce decent art always seems to come up in submissions like these, as if it is a binary choice. I make a nice living shooting photographs. If you'd like me to take pictures of your new model automobile for use in an ad campaign, you are going to have to pay me. Want me to go to Bolivia and follow one of your writers around? Pay me. Afghanistan? I'm going to need some cash for that. Yet I can still give stuff away when the situation warrants.

You mean, "poisoning a British citizen so he cooks from the inside-out" is the more civilized alternative usual pattern of Russian soldiers murdering , raping and torturing Chechen civilians, and running "filtration" camps where they rape 13 year old girls ?

(and the occasional retaliation?)

Make sure you save some laughs for this idiot too.

I was going to write a post critizing the Russian government's ability to mug, steal, kill and rob at will.

But really, Russia is no worse than the USA, thanks to global hegemony induced TRIPS.

Right now, we must concentrate on steering Russia towards developing a true democracy...

Especially one where people are no longer being assassinated, poisoned, "disappeared" or otherwise shut down. Is there any country on the planet that is become more free and its citizens getting more rights?

You know how I know america has a good governmental system ? You said that, and you're still alive, in fact, no one thinks you did anything wrong.

As opposed to lots of others who try to say stuff like that about their government, and, well just look around :
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/04/iran10415.h tm

So you believe that adding up news reports is a good way to calculate civilian casulties? Iraq Body Count is well intentioned, but it doesn't even approach a valid statistical methodology. OTOH, we do have two very good studies by the world's leading expert on estimating wartime mortality. I am not sure where you get your numbers for Hussein, but the most widely accepted figure for Iraqis killed by Saddam is Human Rights Watch's estimate of"as many as 290,000." However, since the war HRW has had surprising difficulty documenting most of these with physical evidence. Saddam is of course also responsible for the deaths of many Iraqi soldiers in the Iran-Iraq war. I thinbk most historians agree that Khomeini shares some responsibilty for those deaths due to his refusal to accept a cease fire after driving the Iraquis back accross the border.

So you believe that adding up news reports is a good way to calculate civilian casulties? Iraq Body Count is well intentioned, but it doesn't even approach a valid statistical methodology. OTOH, we do have two very good studies by the world's leading expert on estimating wartime mortality. I am not sure where you get your numbers for Hussein, but the most widely accepted figure for Iraqis killed by Saddam is Human Rights Watch's estimate of"as many as 290,000." However, since the war HRW has had surprising difficulty documenting most of these with physical evidence. Saddam is of course also responsible for the deaths of many Iraqi soldiers in the Iran-Iraq war. I thinbk most historians agree that Khomeini shares some responsibilty for those deaths due to his refusal to accept a cease fire after driving the Iraquis back accross the border.

Saddam did do some wonderful things for human rights, albeit for political reasons. His goals needed women to be equal, and so he introduced the appropriate policies. It was only after the Gulf War that he embraced Islam to quell the masses.

For extensively documented long list of police brutality in the U.S. circa 1999 see:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR5114719 99?open&of=ENG-USA

Police killed almost 10,000 people in a 20 year period between 1976 and 1998:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0428-04.ht m

Police have tasered 167 people to death in just the last 7 years, clearly when a taser is deployed death ought not to result.

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articl es/1224taserlist24-ON.html

According to Human Rights Watch an internationally respected human rights organization these conditions obtain in American prisons:

"In recent years, U.S. prison inmates have been beaten with fists and batons, stomped on, kicked, shot, stunned with electronic devices, doused with chemical sprays, choked, and slammed face first onto concrete floors by the officers whose job it is to guard them. Inmates have ended up with broken jaws, smashed ribs, perforated eardrums, missing teeth, burn scars--not to mention psychological scars and emotional pain. Some have died.

Both men and women prisoners--but especially women--face staff rape and sexual abuse. Correctional officers will bribe, coerce, or violently force inmates into granting sexual favors, including oral sex or intercourse. Prison staff have laughed at and ignored the pleas of male prisoners seeking protection from rape by other inmates."

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/14/usdom8583.h tm

And the use of restraint chairs as torture devices in U.S. jails and prisons:

" restraint chairs have been used for punishment of nonthreatening behavior;

children have been strapped into the chairs for nonviolent behaviors;

nude inmates and detainees have been strapped into restraint chairs;

prisoners have been left in restraint chairs for as long as eight days. In some cases, the jail staff failed to manipulate the prisoners' limbs to protect against blood clots;

prisoners have been required to testify while in restraint chairs;

prisoners have been interrogated while in restraint chairs;

prisoners have been injured while in restraint chairs;

prisoners have been tortured by being hooded, pepper-gassed, beaten, or threatened with electrocution while in the chairs;

at least eleven people have died under questionable circumstances after being strapped into a restraint chair.

Use of the restraint chair is widespread: Jails, state and federal prisons, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the U.S. Marshals Service, state mental hospitals, juvenile detention centers, and foreign governments are all equipped with the chair.

Amnesty International has called for a federal investigation into use of the restraint chair. The device "is an issue of great concern to us," says Angela Wright, a researcher at Amnesty's headquarters in London. "It appears to be used in some jurisdictions as a front-line or even routine form of control, including as a punishment for disruptive or annoying behavior."

http://www.progressive.org/mag_cusacchair

And swat teams are being militarized and given ex-military hardware:

"It's unlikely that the officer who shot Culosi did so intentionally. But it's also unlikely that the investigation into this shooting will address why police sent a military-style unit to arrest an optometrist under investigation for a nonviolent crime and why the officers had their guns drawn when approaching a man with no history of violence.

Don't trust the results, though--the Greek government will only admit to the existence of minorities specifically mentioned in their international treaties.

Also, their human trafficking record is a good place to look for Human Rights issues.

For a more general picture, consult The Human Rights Watch scoop.

Chavez is considerably worse than just "not a saint". And comparing him to an elected President of the US is somewhat absurd. Anyone who thinks life in Venezuela under Chavez would be nicer than life in the United States under Bush should put their money where their mouth is and move there.

Chavez is considerably worse than just "not a saint". And comparing him to an elected President of the US is somewhat absurd. Anyone who thinks life in Venezuela under Chavez would be nicer than life in the United States under Bush should put their money where their mouth is and move there.

Libya's biological weapons programme too has suffered from similar mismanagement and lack of funds, say sources; at best succeeding in producing munitions boobytrapped with human faeces that can be fatal if it enters the blood stream.

Actions speak louder than words. China goes through the motions of being politically friendly towards western countries, but the actions seem to demonstrate at least cooperation with North Korea as demonstrated by refugees from North Korea who have been attempting to go through China and seek asylum at various countries' embassies located there in. Many news sources have reports of North Korean refugess attempting to make a "dash" for the embassies to seek political assylum where Chinese milatary apprehend them and return them to North Korea where they promptly disappear.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/northkorea/norkor1 102-03.htm

"But if he was providing illegal services to U.S. citizens then he put himself at risk. Why that is such a shock to you people I don't know, unless you just need another excuse to America-bash."

Need an excuse? Hell no! We do it freely, joyfully, unabashedly and gleefully with malice aforethought!

It's enough to simply aim a kick anywhere in the room and hit your great, wide, wobbly American ass that's bent over with a congress-applied Kick-me sticker in day-glo orange. Americans are now totally vulnerable to any vengeful comments by anyone whose cornflakes this current administration has peed into - most of the rest of the planet. Let's start with the Dutch.

You argued that since Hezbollah is a terror organization, it can't break war laws.

I answered that "argument" with that EU, amongst others, doesn't consider Hezb a terror organization and that it is friggin' illegal to be a terror organization anyway (by definition, they do things that would be classified war crimes if a state did them). So it is quite equivalent.

I really can't see how your definition game can matter, since committing war crimes like targeting civilians (by EU definition) is about as bad as being a terrorist organization. At least troll well if you have nothing to say.

I argued that -- Afaik, Israel hasn't targeted civilians as primary targets but that if you have an air bombing campaign, you will hit civilians -- it isn't war crimes and that Hezb had lots of control over which dead was counted as civilians and which were counted as Hezb (almost none, strangely enough).

You point out that Amnesty and HRW accused Israel of bombing civilian infrastructure needlessly (HRW reformulated the initial claims to be that they couldn't find Hezb where Israelis had bombed, which is logical since there will be mistaken targeting -- and it isn't believable they can have an opinion when being shepherded by Hezb through bombing sites, check other documents on their sites). Which isn't relevant for my point, either. (Others in this thread have pointed out documented cases of where Hezb really integrated Iran's, sorry, their infrastructure with civilians.)

Err, Human Rights Watch.

Wikipedia Won't Bow to Chinese Censors

1. violating the basic principles as they are confirmed in the Constitution;
2. jeopardizing the security of the nation, divulging state secrets, subverting of the national regime or jeopardizing the integrity of the nation's unity;
3. harming the honor or the interests of the nation;
4. inciting hatred against peoples, racism against peoples, or disrupting the solidarity of peoples;
5. disrupting national policies on religion, propagating evil cults and feudal superstitions;
6. spreading rumors, disturbing social order, or disrupting social stability;
7. spreading obscenity, pornography, gambling, violence, terror, or abetting the commission of a crime;
8. insulting or defaming third parties, infringing on the legal rights and interests of third parties;
9. inciting illegal assemblies, associations, marches, demonstrations, or gatherings that disturb social order;
10. conducting activities in the name of an illegal civil organization; and
11. any other content prohibited by law or rules.

Wikipedia Won't Bow to Chinese Censors

1. violating the basic principles as they are confirmed in the Constitution;
2. jeopardizing the security of the nation, divulging state secrets, subverting of the national regime or jeopardizing the integrity of the nation's unity;
3. harming the honor or the interests of the nation;
4. inciting hatred against peoples, racism against peoples, or disrupting the solidarity of peoples;
5. disrupting national policies on religion, propagating evil cults and feudal superstitions;
6. spreading rumors, disturbing social order, or disrupting social stability;
7. spreading obscenity, pornography, gambling, violence, terror, or abetting the commission of a crime;
8. insulting or defaming third parties, infringing on the legal rights and interests of third parties;
9. inciting illegal assemblies, associations, marches, demonstrations, or gatherings that disturb social order;
10. conducting activities in the name of an illegal civil organization; and
11. any other content prohibited by law or rules.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/index.do
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/defenders/hrd_iran /alert081606_ebadi.htm
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/02/49f87 7bc-61bb-4b7d-87e0-663033df3404.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4114621.stm

From the BBC article:

The execution of children

Torture, as well as degrading punishments such as amputation, flogging and stoning

Discrimination against women and girls

The persecution of political opponents, following last February's mass disqualification of opposition candidates in the run-up to parliamentary elections

Discrimination against minorities, including Christians, Jews, Sunni Muslims, and in particular followers of the Baha'i faith, including arbitrary arrest and detention.

Can we start being worried yet?
Can we start telling them they can't do this yet?
Or are these still wonderful people who should have A-bombs?

*sits and waits for the moral equivalency arguments*

Because one side is commiting all the crimes. Leave Israel alone and they will leave you alone.

Spoken like a man who only has the superficial understanding of the conflict that the mainstream media covers. Israel is NOT in anyway innocent of all crimes. They've done everything from settle conquered land and drive out the natives in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to collective punishment in the form of mass demolitions of housing tracts where a terrorist lived to firing missiles and bombs into crowded markets and residential areas. Many of the Israeli settlers are just as much religious fanatics as some of the supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah and often do not treat their Palestinian neighbors as human, shunning them and occasionally using violence against them. Many harbor racist, anti-Arab attitudes, and the Palestinians' attitude about Israel is shaped by their contact with these Israelis (and the occupying IDF) first and foremost.

The Israelis occupy the Palestinian territories with a force that is notorious for having a hair trigger and killing innocents. The Palestinian economy is nonexistent because they can't move freely around their territory thanks to check-points, and they can't trade with neighbors with the borders shut. Unemployment in the Gaza Strip was 30% in 2005, before the recent siege. In the West Bank, Israel has built a barrier deep into internationally recognized Palestinian territory "to prevent terror attacks" that has cut a lot of prime Palestinian farmland off from its owners, and Israel has repeatedly refused to honor its obligations under the Oslo peace accord to withdraw ALL settlers from both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, instead funnelling more and more settlers into the West Bank to consolodate their grip.

The IDF is infamous for heavy-handed tactics against the Palestinians in most of the world (outside the US, anyway). Heavy civilian casualties are common. This is because terrorists live side by side with civilians. (Do you think they have a choice, if they want to resist occupation, by the way? I mean, it's not like they can build bases.) Israel likes to thump its chest about how terrorists use civilians as body shields (apparently because they commit the evil acts of living in apartments with their families and shopping in the public -- the bastards), but Israel is more than willing to fire that rocket or drop that bomb and chalk everyone else up as acceptable losses if it means cutting the next head off the Hydra.

They also have a policy of bulldozing down houses "that are harboring terrorists" without regard for any of the other families living there or the women and children of the accused terrorists. The UN and many human rights organizations have condemned these demolitions as collective punishment (in violation of the Geneva Convention and thus a war crime), but they've never been held to task for it thanks to US veto power. They've demolished apartment buildings, markets, schools, playgrounds -- they even bulldozed down the Gaza Strip's only zoo in Rafah. Jenin lost 10% of the housing in a city of 13,000.

Look at the current conflict in Lebanon -- there's a 10:1 Lebanese to Israeli civilian death ratio, Lebanon's economy has been utterly destroyed by the devastation to infrastructure, and relief supplies cannot get into most of the country thanks to the destruction of all bridges and major roadways. Hezbollah hasn't done a fraction of the level of damage that Israel has done, and yet they want more, more, more devastation and military occupation. They seem incapable of figuring out that occupying more land only breeds more hate and that moderate Lebanese are now crying that they will never recognize Israel's right to exist.

Honestly, what kind of idiots are they to think that bombing places that harbor terrorists will make less terrorists?

Now don't get me wrong. I don't think that -- by a long shot -- all of the blame rests on Israel's

Yeah! Who cares if he executes gays and has the human rights record of Stalin with a bad hangover! He "reads books".

Well, one book, anyway. His thugs like to burn other books, torture journalists and threaten to murder Booker Prize-winning authors.

You're sickening, son.

Sorry you were born without a conscience.

Yeah! Who cares if he executes gays and has the human rights record of Stalin with a bad hangover! He "reads books".

Well, one book, anyway. His thugs like to burn other books, torture journalists and threaten to murder Booker Prize-winning authors.

You're sickening, son.

Sorry you were born without a conscience.

Since I don't see one, here is a link to the HRW report.