Slashdot Mirror

End the Dell Blacklist of Linux NOW... "If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com] .

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com] .

Please support this effort..."

End the Dell Blacklist of Linux NOW... "If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com] .

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com] .

Please support this effort..."

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com]

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com]

Please support this effort...

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com]

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com]

Please support this effort...

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com]

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com]

Please support this effort...

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell...

"Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 [ideastorm.com]

"Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 [ideastorm.com]

Please support this effort...

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell... "Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 "Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 Please support this effort... Quote:... "[Dell]

If you feel passionately about Linux support this petition to get Dell to stop the blockade and blacklisting of Linux and to stop forcing customers to buy Windows 7 and Microsoft Office if they want the latest Dell hardware. Make a difference and tell them to stop now....They have setup a petition website for the posting of new ideas and comments called Ideastorm, lets up-vote the issue and support the breaking of the Microsoft Cartel at Dell... "Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?id=0877000000006ixAAA&v=1339437474096 "Give the user a choice of Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL or Windows on all desktops..." Link: http://www.ideastorm.com/idea2ReadIdea?Id=087700000008iglAAA&v=1339424370822 Please support this effort... Quote:... "[Dell]

Do people really only use computers for watching movies?

Probably

see http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000008WhXAAU

and

http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000000knXAAQ

(my idea for non widescreens actually got voted down to -10 (The 2nd link) , so you know that a majority of those on ideastorm prefer widescreens)

Do people really only use computers for watching movies?

Probably

see http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000008WhXAAU

and

http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000000knXAAQ

(my idea for non widescreens actually got voted down to -10 (The 2nd link) , so you know that a majority of those on ideastorm prefer widescreens)

1. 115170: Pre-Installed OpenOffice | alternative to MS Works & MS Office
2. 105120: Have Firefox pre-installed as default browser
3. 103950: No Extra Software Option
4. 101110: Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot
5. 86980: Provide Linux Drivers for all your Hardware
6. 72510: No OS Preloaded
7. 53180: Sell Linux PCs Worldwide - not only the United States
8. 46690: Stripped down, fast Linux Box
9. 39970: coreboot (formerly LinuxBIOS) instead of proprietary BIOS

So maybe only open source users know about IdeaStorm? Regardless, Dell is staring down hundreds of thousands of users looking for more options that should honestly be very easy to provide. So if the returns are a "non-issue" and are similar to Windows returns then what's the deal, Dell?

You can tell Dell you don't want Foxconn shit.
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/72514/Using_Quality_OEMs

According to this thread http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_audio&message.id=43688#M43688 the stereo mix drivers that Dell was supplied by SigmaTel (now Freescale Semiconductor) are being rejected by Vista on installation. The techs are working on it, but odds are SignaTel (not Dell) is being threatened by RIAA as not to supply the fix.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66120/Correct_Sigmatel_audio_drivers_Stereo_Mix#
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_audio&thread.id=40127&jump=true

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/70157/Offer_and_Dell_Recommend_HDCP_Compliant_Video_Cards
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6286245.stm

However much $ Dell gets, they seem willing to listen to the masses who voted for the ideastorm entry that begged for no crapware. They list this as "partially implemented".

I bought two Dells with Windows recently (not for myself), about 6 months apart. On both I configured the order with the least amount of crapware I could, and then cleaned up what was actually installed. My impression was that the second box had noticeably less stuff that needed removing, though I didn't take notes or anything.

Dell does have their own applet which is supposed to give "alerts" for important updates or something, but is also (mainly) a marketing channel. And they bombard me with direct mail. I'm not complaining about either of those channels, because I can probably opt out, and sometimes the mailings are actually useful (the second machine was bought from a sale advertised by mail). So they do have ways to make incidental sales that are less obnoxious than massive crapware. Both of those channels could be implemented to some degree for their Ubuntu customers also.

I'm reposting my comment from Dell's IdeaStorm site.

In late October 2007 I wanted to purchase a Core 2 Duo desktop to run Ubuntu and had decided on the Dell XPS 410n.

When I went to purchase the machine I discovered that not only had it been pulled from the scarce three machine lineup that Dell offers with Ubuntu but that I could find no news or information when a replacement (e.g. XPS 420n) would be offered.

I emailed Lionel Menchaca regarding how Direct2Dell would be the ideal place to announce changes of this nature, and subscribed to the Dell Linux-Desktops mailing list to watch for announcements. Nearly two months have passed and yet Dell's Ubuntu lineup hasn't changed. If Dell's marketing is to be believed and Ubuntu has arrived by popular demand I suspect Dell would be more successful if they offered it on more than just two pieces of hardware (currently the Inspiron Desktop 530N and Inspiron Notebook 1420N).

Since I got interviewed for the article and then quoted in the Slashdot summary, I thought I'd pipe in... I was interviewed by Agam because of my post to Dell's IdeaStorm site about the PERC 5/i RAID controller:

Leverate LSI to Open Source MegaCli — Dell is using LSI's chipset (LSI MegaRAID SAS) in the PERC 5/i controller, but the tools to manage it are closed source and really suck. Vote on it NOW! :)

We've used Dell gear in my last couple of jobs. We had some stupid level of support on our Latitudes at my last job and they'd send people out to replace the hard drives and little rubber feet and everything, which was sort of nice but still annoying to take care of. We use a ton of Dell servers at my new job and at least on the hard drive failures I've seen so far Dell support has been really good at overnighting new drive right out. However, I've always been frustrated by the support levels in the same way as Microsoft licensing. There are too many options, and these options all have different numbers you have to call. Sometimes when I use the online chat support, which is much nicer than sitting on the phone, they kick me away to phone support if I start asking two many Poweredge questions. For Poweredge and linux support I highly recommend their linux-poweredge mailing list. They've got at least a few of their dedicated linux engineers on there but there's good community support as well. Sometimes searching here directly with Google brings back results that you wouldn't have found using the entire intarweb. I'm really pushing for more debian and 64bit support as are many others. OMSA is a beast though. Mebbe IPMI will save the day.

You have a point. So, maybe I can get you to vote at Dell IdeaStorm for the idea to have Dell offer to sell virtualized XP on high end Ubuntu desktops and notebooks:

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/74179/Provide_Virtualized_XP_with_Ubuntu_Laptops

according to this guy, the windows tax is greater than zero. dell thinks so too.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/71507/Dell__ Tell_us_if_this_explains_why_its_so_hard_to_get_No _OS_on_many_Dell_models
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Comes_vs_Microsoft_Peti tion_Shows_How_Microsoft_Blocked_Linux_Sales_PDF ...in 2000, Microsoft ratcheted the restriction up so that OEMs are forced to forfeit all discounts otherwise earned if they ship any "naked machines" to consumers. This heightened restriction, which (on information and belief) continues to the present, prohibits PC users and PC retailers from buying and installing lower priced or better quality operating systems of their choice."

There is a idea in Ideastorm, and I wonder HOW is it that it has so few promotions.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67635/MultiM edia_availability_on_Dell_linux_systems

Go and promote it!

However, I just did a quick comparison of Ubuntu vs Vista Home Basic on Dell's new Inspiron desktops (Ubuntu 530N vs Vista 530), configuring them as closely as possible, and the Ubuntu desktop was $150 cheaper. Did I miss something in the configuration? Here's what I configured (copied/pasted from the last page before adding to the shopping cart):

• Inspiron 530 with Vista Home Basic ($479)
  Intel®Pentium® dual-core processor E2140 (1MB L2,1.60GHz,800 FSB)
  Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
  No Monitor
  512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 1DIMM
  160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
  48X CDRW/DVD Combo Drive
  256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
  Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
  Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
  56K PCI Data Fax Modem
  Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
  1 Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
  Free 3GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Year
  Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
  Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
  
• Inspiron 530N with Ubuntu ($329)
  Intel®Pentium® dual-core processor E2140 (1MB L2,1.60GHz,800 FSB)
  Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
  No Monitor
  512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 1DIMM
  160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
  48X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
  256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
  Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
  Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
  1 Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
  No Modem Option
  Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
  No Productivity software pre-installed

Power usage is horrid. A 600MHz ARM Xscale has better performance per clock than a 600MHz x86 and eats half a watt of power; while 1.2GHz Core Solos eat at least 10 watts and most other processors around 2-3GHz eat 60-120 watts, some even 180 watts! That's between 5 and 36 times more power per clock cycle; and most of the newer chips are RISC processors on a proprietary instruction set with a real-time translator from x86 to internal RISC. It takes HOW MUCH power?

I've actually brought this up on Dell's IdeaStorm, if anyone cares (link below). Seriously, look at the OLPC, look at ARM processors, look at how modern computers work, we don't need to be burning that much power. I can't comment directly on these 100 watt video cards as of yet but does a GPU and some RAM need that much power itself? Data centers put stress on the grid, our home PCs stress the grid and cost us money, and laptops and UPS-backed machines have battery life when wall power goes away. We NEED lower power usage.

http://ideastorm.com/article/show/68285/Low_Power_ Usage_Machines

The "These are the steps that we have taken to insure that this does not happen in the future" part.

Oddly enough, I never heard of "gold" support until reading an earlier post on /. today. I even posted "Bring Back the Super Geeks" at ideastorm.com http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66653 a few weeks ago, and no one mentioned gold. Thanks for the info! I just bought my first ever gold support, to test it out.

I also RTFA, and you're 100% right... the article fails point out a single serious or even realistic downside to the Dell/Ubuntu offering. I think the posting above had the only reasonable concern - that Dell/Ubuntu might wake the sleeping giant (M$).

A clueless newbie would do just fine on Feisty. However, being a newbie nowadays means usually one of three things: you're a kid, or you're quite old, or very poor. I might recommend Ubuntu for old people, and possibly poor people (tons of free software out-of-the-box). However, kids want the latest hot games, and that means Windows or Mac. Ubuntu on Dell is huge... bigger than I think people realize, but not because Dell is going to finally convert the masses. The masses will continue to buy Windows. The reasons Dell/Ubuntu is huge is because we geeks will buy them, and we have much more influence than average users.

As I write this response on my Feisty Fawn OS running on my Dell Latitude 9300, I can hardly wait for my new Latitude 9400 that should arrive an a couple weeks. It will predate Dell's Ubuntu release by only days or weeks, but I'm confident my 9400 will be an Ubuntu super-star. Today, I placed an order for about $20K worth of new computers... the only reason that any of them are Dell is because they run Linux much better than the competition. Because of that, I just stared down our CEO who wanted to switch 100% to HP (because HP service rocks). I couldn't argue that the HP server wont run Linux well (it will), so $12K of that $20K is going to HP for a really nice server. If Dell would just Bring Back the Super Geeks http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66653, we'd go back to being a 100% Dell shop.

I have added this concern to Dell's Ideastorm.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67008/Dont_i mply_Microsoft_IP_in_Linux

Anyone concerned about Dell's involvement in this MS/Novell pact should promote and comment on it.

If some OEM forces Vista on you , the License Agreement apparently gives you the right to return it.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66189

Linux users have used this technique for a while. In some jurisdictions you might have to take the OEM to small claims court if their customer support people are uncooperative -- but since the license is in your favor you'll win a default judgment and they won't even try to fight it.

With that discount you can then install the OS of your choice.

Re-typed one last time, posting it on IdeaStorm:

This is, essentially, my wishlist for Linux on a Dell, but it goes a bit beyond that.

The configuration on the website should be powerful, but easy to use. I would suggest going from a one-dimensional to a two-dimensional interface, or maybe even a tree. Right now, ordering a Dell laptop means going step by step, each step being a page full of configuration.

I would suggest, instead, that you provide a single page of configuration options. Basic things, like "CPU", with a dropdown menu -- however, some things could be "All", "Typical", "Custom", "None". Everything should have the dollar amount it is costing right next to the item. A perfect candidate: Pre-loaded software. Total amount it's costing you right next to it. "All" makes your machine positively loaded -- Vista Ultimate, Ubuntu, BSD, Photoshop, MS Office, OpenOffice, etc etc... "None" means they won't do anything other than format the disk, and maybe install FreeDOS if they have to. "Typical" would probably be Vista Home Basic + MS Office, or vanilla Ubuntu if it was marketed as a Linux machine -- in other words, just the defaults, I-don't-want-to-look-at-it setting. "Custom" would expand that part of the page, or popup a new window, and allow you to configure the living hell out of it.

The rest of my post is based on the assumption that, given the above web interface, you won't reject a configuration option because it would confuse Grandma. Grandma can just click "Typical" for everything and be done. People who dig deeper should not be denied any functionality which can be easily achieved.

First thing: Partitioning. It should be possible to set up partitions, and configure which OS is the default to boot when installing multiple OSes. It should also be possible to specify partition type and filesystem to format, with a reasonable selection. I'm not asking for Reiser4 support or jffs2 support, or even cryptoloop support, just all the standard stuff -- XFS, JFS, ReiserFS, ext3, linux-swap, vfat, and so on. Keep in mind that even NTFS partitions can be created with fairly standard Linux tools, so for this stage, you do not have to code any of this yourself -- just the interface for me to choose my filesystem.

Operating Systems: I should be able to choose from a selection of images that Dell provides, to start with. Simplest way to implement this is with disk images. For example, a Windows image could be prepared on the smallest partition it can possibly be installed to. Then, it can be copied with ntfsclone and resized with ntfsresize to fit whatever amount of space I've allocated to Windows on that machine.

A similar procedure could be used for any OSes not natively supported by your install scripts. In fact, any OS or distro you don't want to support on your own could still make a few partition images available for you to download, and have it set up so that on first boot, the relevant partitions are expanded to the size they need to be. This could even be such that a user can visit the website of a third-party distro and configure a custom OS image, then paste the URL into the partition editor on the Dell website. This is not as wasteful as it sounds -- you do not have to actually download it until the user has made the purchase (at which point you have enough information to prosecute them if they've made you do something illegal), and you can charge them a small fee for the bandwidth used, and cache any single image that seems popular.

For distros you don't support, you could take a similar approach, but with a tarball instead. Unpack the tarball, chroot and run some predefined install script -- or make it possible to download the install script separately. This is more efficient and easier to customize than a partition image -- also more likely to work, as not all filesystems can be easily resized -- but not really portable beyond Linux.

For the "official" distro, here i

Having observed their behavior in the past, I fully believe that the music industry really believes that they are doing Apple a favor and that they can cut Apple off. If they close iTunes, iPod users will just rip their own music (and share it) leaving 0 revenue.

I think you're exactly right. I refuse to pay more than $0.99 per track. The minute the labels begin messing with that number.. i'm done with them.. permanently. They can choose to continue receiving thousands of my dollars, or they can choose to see none of it. Since the iTMS store opened i've bought over 3000 tracks.. i don't buy discs anymore. I support the ITMS model because it works. I vote with my wallet to tell the labels (and Apple) that they/somebody findally got it right. If the labels reward that support by trying to extort me.. fuck 'em.. everything stops. I wont get angry and throw a fit about it, i'll just stop buying. I'll remove the store icon from iTunes, and get all of my music from Usenet, or from ripping friends/family CDs. Their response to this over the next couple months will decide their fate with me. I don't care anymore which way it goes.. really, i'm tired of it.