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Ubuntu Dell $50 Cheaper Than Vista Dell
rhinokitty writes "Dell recently announced that their Ubuntu systems will be $50 cheaper than similar systems running Vista (Home Basic Edition). This will be a good fork in the road for those people who need a little extra push to take hold of their dreams and run Linux."
Please... If it was really anyone's dream to run Linux, I don't think $50 more on a Dell PC is going to stop them.
Speaking as someone who once worked for microsoft before leaving for a job with an international office supply retailer. I say YAY!!! Learn from this and make a better OS Micro$oft.
Is Ubuntu a good distro in this case, given as it's already installed? I mean, from the standpoint of a non-geeky computer user.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Many Linux users are willing to buy their own rigs, or have been content to purchase Windows and then either dual-boot or just format and install Linux.
I don't think this move will equate to widespread acceptance of Linux on the desktop for the home. You're not going to shop Dell's site as a Windows lover with no Linux experience and say, "since Dell is selling Linux, I think I'll give it a try and buy a computer without Windows!"
It is nice that people will save money, however, there is a potential large impact of this move.
Several IT departments in all kinds of large corporations struggle with trying to get corporate suits to accept Linux in the workplace. And while large companies like RedHat or Novell will sell support, corporations like familiarity and standardization. If said corporation has a corporate contract with Dell, and Dell is officially standing behind Ubuntu and selling Ubuntu preinstalled, and you can see it as a cost-cutting move to the suits at the same time, then this might help spread the acceptance of Linux in the workplace.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
.. they're too confused about all the different editions of Vista ;)
lame.
I'm sorry, but i gotta say "...who need a little extra push to take hold of their dreams and run Linux." is the single-most pathetic thing i've read on the entire internet, ever.
I believe it has great symbolic value.
And I don't believe anybody would consider buying it to save money.
It would be even better if DELL would use another 50 dollar per sale for developers of the software of DELL's choice. That would give buyers a nice cosy Ubuntu feeling and it would be great marketing.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
I don't think that is a big enough incentive, people that have been brainwashed by M$'s propaganda about how great Vista is aren't going to suddenly turn and say "ZoMG! This OS is $50 cheaper! Forget Vista!"
A $50 difference will do nothing in terms of persuasion for the common man, the people that buy Ubuntu pre-installed are only the ones that have done the research and know at least a bit about what they've doing, and what they want, the rest know Windows, and M$'s advertising.
What Ubuntu needs from Dell, isn't a $50 price difference, but some available INFORMATION, look here: www.dell.com/
I don't know about you, but all I see are Vista loaded machines, I didn't check every page, but nobody is going to buy an Ubuntu loaded machine if it's buried somewhere at the back of the site, or the store.
"we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
Although I've always installed my own Linux distros on everything and it's totally second-nature to me, it still takes time to get everything working properly.
Receiving a fully-working Linux system out of the box and not needing to pay the MS tax would be valuable, and if Dell extends their offer to laptops, I'll certainly be a new customer.
The benefits of using Linux (or FreeBSD, my OSoC) is lost on the masses, who want what's easiest; whatever allows them not to think. Or what's "cool". Mac OS X is no less clunky than than any OS I've ever used but it's percieved as being "cool", so it's better. I've had users with PHDs who wanted to remain so ignorant of the OS they used every day you might as well have been wiping their arse for them. Most people are sheep, and by choice. My hat is off to the folks at Ubuntu and it's spin-offs for trying to get through to those people; it must be like Sisyphus, rolling his init scripts up that hill.
I'd pay 50$ dollars to never read a man-page or hear "RTFM" by a Linux zealot again.
what if I wanted OS X on my Dell??
The difference in value of a system running Ubuntu and a system running Vista is far more than $50 to most people. To the majority, it's worth more than $50 to stay with something comfortable (Windows). For others, it's worth more than $50 to have a system that's free (as in freedom AND beer).
The $50 is only meaningful because it's based on 1) Dell's cost and 2) Dell's perception of how much of a difference in price it takes to get attention in the marketplace. Ultimately Dell doesn't care which one you buy, but if they get your attention you may buy Dell instead of HP or someone else.
Did I fall through a wormhole and end up in May again?
Is this the PC for Vista/XP pirates? I mean, why pay an extra $50 when you don't have to?
You mean open source isn't more expensive? Could Microsoft be wrong? Next thing you'll be telling me is that Vista isn't the greatest OS in history.
Go to dell.com, type in Linux as search, click on suggested link (ignore the recommended M$ stuff)
- select Ubuntu,
"XPS 410 N"
click through "adding features",
leave everything as default and...:
"1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day"
I like it!
In Ubuntu's case, the GUI looks familiar and there isn't any need whatsoever for a firewall and anti-virus software, even though that's available too. If your needs are like most, you won't miss a thing.
There are two steep learning curves:
1. Putting the finishing touches on most of the applications included. An example is the kmail spam filter bogofilter. Sure, there's a gui to sort of get it going, but you'll discover it doesn't really work until you set up the wordlist.db and a cron job to feed the wordlist. None of which is obvious.
2. Troubleshooting. It's all different underneath and it takes some time to figure it out. But it's logical. Once you get the hang of it, it's much easier to use.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Wow, rhinokitty can sure lay on the purple prose. What's next, Linux will help me leverage my key skills and maximize my full potential, making my chakras spin in unison to bring me closer to a fully actualized human being?
Go somewhere random
...if I'm spending thousands on a new laptop, I'll still take the OS if it's optional. I can pick up Ubuntu for nothing later on. Vista would cost me hundreds.
This isn't a push in the right direction, it's a slap in the face!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
how come the Linux system doesn't have this listed?
You're right, of course. A $50 difference is not that persuasive. However, at least the Ubuntu machine isn't more expensive than the equivalent Vista one. After all, there was considerable worry that Dell would keep the Ubuntu price higher (for a variety of reasons, such as contracts with MS or kickbacks from craplet installs, etc.).
So, I see Dell's offering of Ubuntu machines as a small step in the right direction. And the fact that they are a bit cheaper than the Vista equivalent is also a step in the right direction.
I highly doubt many consumers will be randomly browsing the Dell website and say "damn, those Ubuntu machines look awesome!"... but at least these prices allow those in the know to suggest to others: "If you're looking for a new computer, consider getting a Dell Ubuntu machine. Ubuntu is very stable and secure and you don't need the most expensive computer to run it. In fact, it's a bit cheaper than the equivalent Windows machine!"
Will this give Linux a 15% marketshare overnight? No. But it's a step towards breaking the current OS monoculture... and that's a good thing.
DUH... you fucking retards.
So do they configure it with Enlightenment, KDE, Gnome, or IceWM?
Just 'cause the new user is sure as heck not going to be able to chose between those in Ubuntu.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
$50 bucks cheaper? Who thinks that this is going to make a single person buying a Dell change their mind? $50? One tank of gas? 1/12 of an iPhone (with no service)? 6% of the purchase price? That might not even cover shipping. You gotta be kidding me if anybody would look at this and say, "hmmm... well then... 50 bucks, huh? Well, sure, I might as well learn an entirely new operating system and find replacements for all of my programs that won't work if there's $50 at stake!"
Slashdot has officially hit a new low.
I don't respond to AC's.
...and did you get the WLAN DW1390 to work properly? And I don't mean just a wrapper 'round the Win driver, but all the configuration stuff too.
someone had it figured out long time back.... http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/ 1529201
I think the Linux users are pretty happy about saving $50 for not having to buy Windows. I know I am.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
- Ubuntu price $0
- Dell incentives from trialware/crapware $0
- Net $0
So IMO a $50 savings for Ubuntu is actually impressive.You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
Well then I assume that you are running Windows and already paid the $50 extra?
:(
RTFM.
I guess it didn't work.
Mod me down. It was soooo worth it.
laying it on a bit thick aren't we?
This is _exactly_ what most people that wanted Linux pre-installed in their PCs said they wouldn't do: whine about details. Why can't I get a better battery? Why is it only 50$ cheaper? Why is it gray?... We wanted this; now it's time we show we can backup our statements with cash. Vote. Wallet. Now.
50 dollars AND you don't have to uninstall Vista and then install Ubuntu. Sounds like a decent deal to me.
I'm not whining. I'm saying that $50 isn't going to convince anybody to switch. That's absurd.
Good for you if you get to save $50. That's great.
And for the record, I have a FreeBSD box that I'm using at home right now for my music collection (FreeNas).
I don't respond to AC's.
The Admin and the Engineer
KDE is pretty simple to install on Ubuntu.
Here's a good 3 part article on Linux gaming:
http://kahvipapu.com/blog/2007/06/16/linux-gaming
It focuses on Open Source games but it also lists many of the other titles that are available for Linux.
Most of these games, if not all, are also available on Windows, of course. The first game listed, Warsow is an excellent Open Source FPS, whether you're on Linux or Windows. No Mac client, though I'm sure an interested Mac developer could rectify that.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Who the fuck dreams about Linux? Ok, maybe that was too harsh. Who the fuck dreams about Linux and was holding off for $50 off a Dell?
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the brand of their box but by the content of their kernel.
Doing a quick one over of the systems available, for a 15 inch screen, you're looking at 1,194 dollars for a minimum Vista notebook with full performance. (2 gigs of RAM, and a 2 GHz dual core processor). A 15 inch Ubuntu notebook, will cost you just 599 dollars. Thanks to the low hardware requirements of Linux systems. (It's quite literally twice as powerful as the desktop I'm typing from now.) There's a couple caveats there, in that I'm not sure if the optical drive and hard drive are comparable between the two. (i'm too lazy too check). And that for a desktop, the price difference won;t be as bad. (An acceptable processor and RAM for Vista gets very expensive for the notebooks, not as much so as for the desktops.) I'm also not sure how long this will last, Dell is still shipping the old 1505s for Ubuntu, the price will probably go up if they start using 1520s instead. (There's no appreciable difference in specs that I can find, though this may change once better Intel processors come out (the 1520 uses a different socket type.)). Oh, and if you want the fancy graphics stuff for Vista, you're going to need another 230 dollars (30 for the software and 200 for a 256 megabyte graphics card.) I'm not sure how much of a hardware upgrade it would take to run the 3D desktop options for Linux though, so I have no point of comparison to make there.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
you just have time to cancel or allow?
I can't think of a single person that I've talked to recently that said, "you know what, I'm just dreaming of the day when Dell will sell me a computer with Ubuntu on it so I can finally run Linux." Most of the people I know what know what to do with themselves if they had Linux on their computer. If everyone I know suddenly had Linux, the number of phone calls I get about computers would increase by a factor of ten, at least. I would be willing to pay the extra $50 for them to get the Vista version, since it would at least be less scary for them.
you just have time to cancel or allow?
Yawn. Now that this has been repeated to death, let's face it: all other OS have similar elevation dialogs. OSX has it, and other flavors of BSD, Linux has it.
It's part of life when you don't run as root all the time.
The fact you may get too many of them on Vista usually signifies improperly setup account, or poorly written software. In my experience, the elevation dialog only pops up rarely and when you'd really expect it to.
Several years back I tried Mandrake. I couldn't run any games, and I longed for various Windows apps I missed. About two years ago I gave Gentoo a try, and found that the Linux desktop has progressed greatly. There is plenty of stable, feature-rich apps for all my needs on Linux. In fact, some of the Linux apps far surpass anything I can find on Windows (like Amarok).
It isn't hard to take KDE and make it look and operate like Windows enough that people will just sit down and know how to use it.
Really, all that leaves on the list is that everyone else does.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I saw this a while ago and the discussion was going on how unfair it was that dell was *not* giving a 50$ discount, now that there seems to be a discount** folks are saying how the discount is not worth anything. :S A lower price, if its true, is worth something though I would think.
**Also note as other posters have above, the Ubuntu laptop is seemingly missing a battery, or the article has an omission.
It might make a difference if you were shopping on the low end. And actually, the difference between the two Inspiron 530s is $100, and that's if you don't upgrade the Windows machine to the GeForce 7300 like the Ubuntu machine has (for $50 more). $150 sounds like quite the deal to me.
While saving $50 might be nice in the short term, what does it do to resale value? I find that older laptops that come with a nice COA for Windows resell for more then one without it. Even with the hard drive removed, a simple COA sticker increases the value.
Thank you. I run Vista Ultimate and only have to authorize things like display settings changes, software updates, anything where a virus or trojan would happily ransack my system. So, I'd say I have to Cancel or Allow three apps per week, and the installs that don't comply with Vista's installer prompt me two or three times, but only during the install. Web browsing, developing, debugging don't bug me for authorization. It's not really disruptive, just a change in behavior.
The whole "Cancel or Allow" thing is great marketing on Apple's part, but FUD just like Windows Fanboys like to spin about Linux or Linux Fanboys spin about Windows.
Of course, it would be nice if I had more info on what I'm authorizing. That's up to the developers though. The OS has little way of predicting what's about to happen.
I can't believe that a Linux distro, even at one-of prices, costs them only $50 more than Vista, even at maximum quantity discount prices. I'm guessing they're expecting a lot more support problems with Ubuntu (not in and of itself, but as a Linux install) and charging more up front to offset that.
OTOH, if I could have gotten Ubuntu installed on this $399 Dimension system when I bought it a year ago, I'd have paid the same. But then I've done my own Linux support since Slackware 1.0. I just don't see too many who'd planned on getting a Dell choosing Linux instead for only $50 off.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
The rhetoric in here is really getting thick.
Uninstall Vista? Please. The Ubuntu partitioner does it for you.
Now personally, I'd probably reinstall Ubuntu anyway. I just don't trust OEMs not to put crapware on it, even in Linux. What I get for buying Linux pre-installed on the Dell is a reasonable expectation that all of the hardware should work, nothing more.
But maybe that's just me.
I've been a pretty strong opponent of Linux on the desktop for a long, long time now.
The first distro installed was Debian 2.2 off of floppy disks, so I've been at this for quite a while. I'd try it out, work with the desktop for a few weeks, and inevitably move back to Windows. I went through the motions with this for a few years, trying out Red Hat, Mandrake, Slackware, and Gentoo in the process. Each time, I reverted back to Windows.
I eventually got a mac, and that was that. I had my unix, and I had my desktop, and I was happy. At school, I would occasionally use the computer labs (running Fedora Core + KDE) to compile some code, or whip up a quick TeX document. It was usable to me, but clearly not ready for the average user (that's what my mac's for)
Fast forward to last month. My mac at work was acting up, and because I only use it to run MATLAB through a remote X server, I figured that I'd give the Ubuntu PPC port a try.
On first impressions, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's just as good as, if not better than Windows for desktop usage. The default install is simple and very well polished. I eventually switched to Xubuntu, which was also extremely simple. The settings/preferences panel is top-notch, and the package manager is flawlessly integrated into the OS.
I still like MacOS for my home computer, if only because of iLife, and all the multimedia and photo/video editing apps that Linux doesn't have yet. However, Ubuntu is a very viable competitor to Windows, even for somebody who's never used Linux before.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
However, I just did a quick comparison of Ubuntu vs Vista Home Basic on Dell's new Inspiron desktops (Ubuntu 530N vs Vista 530), configuring them as closely as possible, and the Ubuntu desktop was $150 cheaper. Did I miss something in the configuration? Here's what I configured (copied/pasted from the last page before adding to the shopping cart):
- Inspiron 530 with Vista Home Basic ($479)
- Inspiron 530N with Ubuntu ($329)
Notes: Integrated Intel GMA 3100 and free 56K modem were available options for Windows but not Ubuntu (I'm assuming it's a driver issue for Ubuntu). For some strange reason, the Ubuntu system is configured with an optional $170 LCD (I removed it for the comparison). The warranty/support for the Ubuntu system covers hardware only and software support can be purchased from Canonical (or you can use their forums for free). The Vista system's warranty includes some software support, of course.Intel®Pentium® dual-core processor E2140 (1MB L2,1.60GHz,800 FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
No Monitor
512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 1DIMM
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
48X CDRW/DVD Combo Drive
256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
1 Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Free 3GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Year
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Intel®Pentium® dual-core processor E2140 (1MB L2,1.60GHz,800 FSB)
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
No Monitor
512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 1DIMM
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
48X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
1 Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
No Modem Option
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
No Productivity software pre-installed
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Remember, they're making it available for free, but they're not providing support (you get to go to 'the community' for support, or buy support directly from Canonical). All they have to provide support for is the hardware, and Ubuntu makes it a lot easier to diagnose hardware problems than Windows does. (and Vista is probably gonna be a lot worse with all the problems from DRM interactions).
In other words, $50 is probably the expected average per-user drop in support charges vs. Vista. Dell then gets to pocket the Windows OEM price as pure profit. (or vice-versa if I'm wrong).
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
When one goes to buy any product one will usually choose a brand name that is familar and reliable to oneself over a less known brand name and will at most times pay more for this product. Obviously most people have not heard of linux and if I didn't know what it was I most likely would not choose it over a windows product which I had used all my life.
You can't build your own Laptop. I ordered an Ubuntu Laptop.
But I ordered it because it was the cheapest laptop with a Linux-Preload.
The Ubuntu system seems to qualify for a $100 discount for some reason, and would normally be priced at $429, for another $50 difference. That's a nice little computer for $329.
Why would they need to choose? The average Windows user has no idea that computers can run with a different GUI layout. They don't know about Blackbox for Windows or LiteStep or GeoShell, how are they going to know about XFCE and KDE and IceWM and Fluxbox? Since Ubuntu comes with Gnome, many users will associate Gnome as Ubuntu. Linspire comes with KDE, so that is the Linspire interface. There is no need for them to choose which interface they use. Just give them something and they'll adapt.
From our own experience, what Dell is doing is just half-hearted attempt, at best, to gather some good press. Their offer of Linux-based laptop is ridiculous. And anyone who thinks that the move may be the beginning of Linux world domination, well, hate to break it to you, that's pipe dream.
... guess... that's right, Windows. And I said partial list because you still need to go out tracking some of the most important drivers, such the graphic driver, sound driver, etc. (I'll explain later) ... guess again... that's right, Windows.
We had bought a few Dell laptops in the last six months, and every one of them is so-called Linux-based laptop. When we open the box, here's the list of what we found:
- The machine and components, the usual suspects (no surprise here)
- one CD containing a partial list of different drivers for
- one CD of junk softwares that you will never use, for
- 3 CDs of Red Flag Linux (yeah, in China, that is).
I booted up the machine, half of them came with DOS installed, but you can't do anything much as there's no driver for anything anyway. The other half came with absolutely nothing installed. Empty disk.
Ok, just for the heck of it, to see if they actually tried to install the linux distro themselves. I installed Red Flag Linux, it installed fine, but missing a few drivers, or won't detect properly. I had to mess with it for a while to get it to work, but still the graphics is not working optimally.
Ok, so far, I don't think any buyer is going with Linux here.
So, I installed Windows XP. And the drivers CD is missing some serious drivers, I ended up with a system which was not any better than with Linux. I looked up the support web site, enter the serial number, and the system told me the serial number of that machine does not exist. Who cares, I just downloaded a bunch of drivers to try out, those drivers that are published for the models close to the one I have. Doesn't work.
After half a day of messing around, I called tech support. Nice guy, actually. He told me that the drivers downloaded from the web site don't work, because I have a "pirated" copy of Windows XP. Ok, fine, give me those that work then. He emailed a few links to get those missing drivers. None of these links showed up on their web site.
Go figure. With that kind of so-called "support", I doubt Joe Sixpacks is going to have Linux on that machine.
Indeed, because of bugs in Apples OS and Apple Script I get oddball password demands much more often than Windows. Apparently sudo only works most of the time on OS X. Never mind the applications that want to jack with the system which don't actually need to. Or to be fair, the OS doesn't do what it is supposed to do so you MUST jack with the system to make your app. work. Fonts are a good example of something which has been busted in some fashion at one time or another on several platforms. Sometimes for many releases. Personally I like the ridicule option... Application XYZ is doing ABC. That's not recommended behavior and is usually indicative of malicious software. We recommend you cancel the operation and remove it from the system. Cancel/Cancel and remove application/Allow but sandbox that shit/Allow your shitty software to crap up the place. Clearly I'll get nowhere with the MBA's and their "partners" but it sure would get developers, 1st and 3rd party, to clean up their act. Of course that would also require OS vendors make sure their API's did the right thing, and the documentation was complete and correct. Pfft... that'll be the day.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
Say an SMB buys 10 computers..
$50x10 = $500 savings
Say an Enterprise begins its upgrade/replace rollout of 10,000 computers..
$50x10,000 = $500,000 Savings
It might not seem a lot to a 1 purchase user but that money adds up. In my university they didn't spend $20 extra dollars per Dell for an optic mouse because of the costs.
You can buy Vista OEM from any decent shop at about that price. They do have to sell it with hardware, but they'll count a $10 USB drive as that.
The Vista license you get from Dell will only work with that specific Dell model.
There are numerous great advantages to an Ubuntu desktop that windows Admins might not know of.
For example you can point all your desktop computers to your own Upgrade server. This allows you to test the new patches coming in from Ubuntu before you add them to your own upgrade repository or add your own packages. This allows you to be in control of patching for your work place although it is often not needed unless you are doing a distribution upgrade which needs testing before you upgrade all the machines at work.
Another great one is being able to SSH into a machine. No more having to baby step a user through GUIs. Just ask what the problem is, login to their machine from your own and fix it yourself, they won't even know you logged into their computer and they can continue working on their machine while your fixing some other problem with their computer!
You can also remote desktop in if you wish to see a GUI instead of a command prompt but that will take control of the users computer.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Seriously. A free operating system versus Windows Vista, and all they can come up with is $50 cheaper? You might as well buy the Vista version, then install Ubuntu - at least that way you will have a licensed copy of Vista that you can put back on later..
While it is a good first step that Dell is selling Ubuntu machines, and not charging you (as much) for a license that you aren't even purchasing, HP has been doing this for quite a while though they don't seem to get much press for it.
- 0-0-121.html
/ 28/181204
If you look at hp laptops and desktops in their "business" section many of them will list "FreeDOS" as an available os, or if they have a "Configure PC" link under the model often times it means you can choose between Windows and FreeDOS in the configuration options. One difference may be that if you get a FreeDOS pc from HP, format the drive and put Linux on it HP probably isn't going to give you any software support whereas maby Dell (or Canonical?) offers some level of support included in their price. Though if you are willing to forgo softwate technical support and just want hardware warranty coverage (for example if you are a large institution purchasing many computers is bulk) you can get a larger discount for non-windows machines from HP than Dell. The price varies but for most of their business notebooks and desktops the difference between a model with Windows XP/Vista and that same model with FreeDOS is usually $75-$150
Hopefully Dell's apparent success in selling Ubuntu desktops (and the publicity that has come with it) will push HP into doing something similar, I am a bit surprised Dell beat them to the punch on this one considering HP has:
been encouraging the use of Debian on the server end for a while
http://h20331.www2.hp.com/services/cache/442406-0
Already provides good driver support for Linux with regard to printers
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/
And the current "Linux CTO" is a former Debian project leader
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bdale_Garbee
I would expect to see more announcements like this in the near future from the OEMs. Whatever argument the OEMs still had against selling desktop Linux and thereby irritating Microsoft was recently dealt a significant blow by Microsoft's announcement that they would begin selling their own machines http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06
which from the OEMs perspective has changed Microsoft from an annoying element that everyone has to deal with and who gets a cut of their profit, to a company that is now moving towards being a direct competitor.
Actually, you can.
You can get all the parts from a Built to Order laptop store. For a little extra money, they assemble it for you and you get warranty.
Granted, it's not as easy as getting parts for a desktop PC, but it is not impossible.
You've got to be kidding me.. Ubuntu Dell versus . . . V.D.?
Look at this from Dell's perspective: the LAST thing they want is someone getting Linux installed on their computer by mistake. You can make plenty of flubups in configuring your Dell and, you know what, 99% of them are recoverable. Buy 1GB of RAM instead of 2? Probably won't notice it. Forget the carrying case? You can buy it at the store. Install Ubuntu instead of Vista Basic? Well, congratulations, thats a nice paperweight you've got there. (Yep, sorry: put 90% of America in front of Ubuntu and its a paperweight that can't run Office, IE, iTunes, or World of Warcraft.)
When Dell delivers paperweights, that will be THEIR problem, not Slashdot's problem. They're the ones that are going to field the "ZOMG WTF is this brown POS on my desktop" So they're going to bury Ubuntu where you can't find it unless you're actively looking for it.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Just how well are Dell's Linux-shipped computers selling?
My web domain.
Of course, one reason why Dell can offer GNU/Linux boxes more cheaply is that if Dell manages to sell them in significant quantity, they can avoid paying MS for licenses, therefore, in the large quantities case, they will be able to make the profit they want at a lower retail price point. But right now, I'm pretty sure that what they're going for with this pricing strategy is primarily the kind of community support that they need to generate in order to reach significant quantities on their GNU/Linux based offerings in the first place. I and many other people in the community would feel bad about an offer from Dell that would give the impression of still paying the equivalent of the Microsoft tax, with only the difference of the money now staying at Dell and not going to Microsoft.
Everyone who runs Linux on a laptop knows how tricky it is to make sure your distro works with all the laptop features, and the wireless, etc.
When Dell sells an Ubuntu-loaded laptop, you know it's going to work out of the box.
When HP sells a FreeDos laptop, you don't know what's going to happen when you put Ubuntu on it.
Seriously Ubuntu is not the best. Mandriva is better.
Are you a scoremonkey?
- Are you sure you want to copy an executable from a shared folder? Yes
- Are you sure you want to write something to a system folder? Yes!
- Sorry, Dave, I can't do that. Copying
.exe files from the network into "Program Files" is disabled for security reasons. WTF???
Which is obviously an idiocy, and one I haven't seen elsewhere (in Ubuntu, anyway; haven't had a chance to play with Mac OS)."For others, it's worth more than $50 to have a system that's free (as in freedom AND beer)."
I guess you mean to "have a OS that's free". The system is neither free as in freedom or beer. Unless of course Dell is giving out their PCs for free and Intel is publishing all their technical documentation on their processors and licensing all their related patents for free.
To a college student, already scared by stories about DRM, and influenced by the FUD-ish Mac vs PC ads, the beer $50 will buy may very well be the extra incentive needed. For now, they'll probably still buy a discount laptop loaded with good ol' XP, but as that will get more difficult over time, sure, $50 will probably help. Why not?
They almost had a sale until I noticed both the desktops won't ship until 7/30/2007. I don't want to wait that long. Did any one see a way to make the date more reasonable? The windows versions of the same machine ship on the 12th. What's with that?
Dell, i love you.. ok, thats 4.. dam, now thats 7.. UG.
Seriously though, that is a big plus - being a very firm fedora person, its great to see this step forward - its a big thumbs up for what linux has become!
Lets face it Windows users never question why their most essential piece of software should be so easily broken and unrecoverable without re-installation, but lets face it they never will. They'll happily go on blaming Nvidia for their late drivers while it took Microsoft 2 years just to design the damn shutdown button.
Please do go ahead and blame anyone you want for why your system sucks but I will never find it acceptable for my operating system to be so prone to errors and unrecoverable from a system failure whether it is Windows, Ubuntu or Mac.
Ubuntu is not good for you. I'm not alone in remembering the various Ubuntu threads in which you made yourself painfully clear that you are a trolling leech on the community instead of a participant. You are far better off with a proprietary operating system from a vendor you can throw temper tantrums at.
Contrarily, Ubuntu is great for adults.
M$ seems to have VICE-ta made in a way that makes it very hard to install a real OS besides it.
I tried it on my laptop and did not get grub working. Maybe that says more about me than about Windoze, but I just kicked Vista from my machine and replaced it with Ubuntu after Vice-ta developed some quirks like denying access to my router without me having changed anything.
Now I still have to get some unimportant hardware working (webcam), but it's more lazyness from me than anything else it's not yet functional. But my machine is a lot faster, does not spy on me, I'm the boss over my own machine, have lots of apps to choose from and I don't have to reboot five times for every update/install. I don't see myself going back!
What person will donate an airborne act of love?
$50 bucks cheaper? Who thinks that this is going to make a single person buying a Dell change their mind?
There are those who are inclined to use something other than Vista anyway, but might give Vista a try if it does not cost extra. Now, there is another choice at $50 less...
C - the footgun of programming languages
I recently had a custom machine built at a local computer shop and had them install Ubuntu Feisty Fawn. They said I saved $200 versus installing Windows XP Home. One of the guys there said he'd never really used Ubuntu, and, after they installed it on my new system and it worked great, he said he'd put it on his kids' machines to save money. I bought a system from Dell, too, and both systems work great.
You know these "There's too much choice in Linux, it's too hard to make selection" whine-trolls we see around aren't very accurate.
It's not 1995 anymore. The time when either you had to pick manually everything up or when the default installation included 3 different products all in crash-prone alpha version (because all the application where recent and none functioned 100% of the time requiring you to mix the use of all 3 to cover your needs) is over.
Yes, for each task in Linux there exist at least several dozens of possible candidate application.
*BUT* for most mainstream application, if you just Yes-click-trough the installation (something that the EULA-trained Windows user is very used to) you just get a basic set of everything you need. Most distro will provide with 1 default desktop (Gnome or KDE in most cases, depending on your religion), 1 browser (usually Firefox. Or Konqueror) 1 email program (Thunderbird, or Evolution, or KMail) 1 Office suite (OOo or Abiword+Gnumeric+etc. or KOffice).
No need to choose a solution a default choice has been pre-maid to help you. Just hit the icon in the menu and let the default application startup.
Want something else ? Then only you have to fire up the software package manager (Yast, Synaptic, RpmDrake, Anaconda etc. or whatever starts when you click on the icon labelled "Add/Remove software").
And even here, there's still an easy route :
- Most installator provide a "task oriented" mode. Want to make a web server ? Just check the box next to the webserver "Activity" and the installator will take care to provide you a default set of tools.
- Only when you need a specific package will you have to hunt it in the list.
And all that is when installing a distro yourself. Now, I'm sure that Dell has already put the trouble to make sure that every Ubuntu laptop ships with a perfectly functional set of basic application covering all the needed tasks. User don't have to hesitate between 4 different word processors or a dozen of different web-browsers (include a couple of text-mode only).
Just clic on the menu entry that says "E-Mail".
For the lazy user, everything will be, I suppose, set to go. That "burden of choice" some bloggers always complain about is left only for those who actually care to make very specific choices.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Wow! That's cheap. I think I order one and install Windows to it since I have some spare licenses ;)
You don't know what you don't know.
The world is going to hell in a hand basket, and you geeks are sitting around in your parents' basements cramming Cheetos in your face and popping boners over Dell Ungabunga boxen? OMFG lame!
"it took Microsoft 2 years just to design the damn shutdown button"
Now be fair, it took them two years to design _and_ implement the shutdown _dialog_, which has several buttons on it. The pressure must have been pretty unbearable when Vista was about to ship after they'd only been given two years to decide how big those buttons should be, what order to put them in, how much space should be between them, how far to inset them from the edges of the dialog, and if that wasn't enough, also ensure that their event handling code called the correct OS routines to prevent potential disasters such as the Cancel button making the machine reformat its hard disk after sending Ballmer an insulting EMAIL. QA people and beta testers can't be relied on to spot this sort of error before the OS is being shipped out on millions of OEM machines, so the responsibility for getting it right was entirely on the shoulders of the poor shutdown dialog team, who probably used special teams of mouse-wielding robots for months to ensure that each of the buttons did exactly what it was supposed to with the legendary level of reliability that's become the hallmark of Microsoft software.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
> Er, um, no. They're now charging $50 less for Ubuntu than for Vista.
You're right of course. I would have been too if you'd read what I meant instead of what I wrote. Funny how I don't seem to be able to get that across in print.
Still, I don't think they're expecting to make it as much a profit point as all that. Their tech support is already problem enough, and that's with printed scripts for the drones to follow. Linux users will probably need more support, and require it to be better quality than what they provide for Windows.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Thats not much. When you are spending several hundred i really doubt many will worry about 50 inorder to complicate their lives more.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You are welcome on my lawn.
The only problem... Ubuntu Dells are not available for enterprise....
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
1. Buy Ubuntu Dell.
2. Pirate Vista.
3. ??? There is no ???!
4. Profit!!!!
Unless you're using wireless.
They are just trying to cover their asses: if they F up with windows -- microsoft is to blame, if they F up with Ubuntu -- it's their own fault.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Actually, being forced to give money to a convicted monopoly might well put more principled people off buying from Dell without this.
I just ordered one of laptop from Dell, due in a week or so. I knew where to look and what to get. Then I did it as if I was Joe Clueless who heard about Ubuntu and wants to look at Dell and what they offer.
Take a look at the front page of Dell.com. What do you see? Lots of products but no mention of Ubuntu. Let's look at a laptop, I see many options. I look and pick one. The option for this Ubuntu thing must be here. I pick a laptop. I look. Comes with Windows Vista Home Edition. Huh? Maybe its under "Build yours". I try that.
I click a couple of options and see "Operating Systems" Maybe this is it? I click on it. It gives me a choice between Windows Vista Home and Home Premium.
What he doesn't realize that its back on the product page under "Essential Links"...Open Source PCs. Click on that and you get a choice between "Shop Ubuntu" or "Shop for FreeDos" which are under "Shop for Dell PCs with Windows"
I know that Dell Ubuntu products are aimed at tech enthusiasts and Open Source fans but if Dell hopes to be successful beyond a niche market they need to try a lot harder.
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
I took Vista because I had no choice. It came with the HP Pavilion laptop I purchased, and MS would not allow the store to sell any other MS operating system. No big deal, I thought. I made the system restore disks as per instructions. I then shrank Vista's NTFS partition using the Vista tools, and installed Ubuntu in the empty spot. I left the HP restore partition alone. I was dual booting fine for a couple of days. However, it started taking longer and longer for Vista to shut down. Now it won't boot at all.
:-) Don't have time to fix Linux problems anymore.
I've tried "Last known good configuration". I've tried "Repair your system". I've tried "Safe Mode", "Debug mode", and "Safe mode with Command Prompt". I've tried the HP restore partition. I've tried the System restore disks that I made. I've even tried the Vista Anytime Upgrade disk that came with the machine. Vista refuses to boot up. The closest I get is a blank blue screen with a mouse pointer. I've left the machine for hours, hoping that the desktop would populate, but no dice. Many people are in the same boat that I am. Vista hangs when it loads CRCDISK.SYS I've been scouring the net, but so far the only solution seems to be return the laptop.
Ubuntu and Fedora both work fine, however. No problems with the wide screen graphics. No problem with the WIFI. There's even no problem reading the NTFS partitions.
I'll take Vista thanks
I'll take Linux thanks. I don't have time to fix Vista problems anymore.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
This is what Walmart delivers for $780:
HP Pavilion Entertainment Laptop
Vista Premium
AMD Turon Dual Core 1.8 GHz CPU
WXGA 15" 1280x800 wide-screen display
120 GB SATA HDD
1 GB DDR RAM
8X DVD R/RW drive
Integrated WiFi and Ethernet
NVIDA GeForce Go graphics
Altec Lansing speakers
Integrated webcam
6-cell LiOn battery
For $820: HP Pavilion Vista Premium 2 GHz Intel Dual Core + 160 GB HDD. Intel 950 graphics.
HP Pavilion Entertainment Laptop w/Mobile
If everyone I know suddenly had Linux, the number of phone calls I get about computers would increase by a factor of ten, at least. I would be willing to pay the extra $50 for them to get the Vista version, since it would at least be less scary for them.
Actualy I migrated a friend from Windows to Ubuntu. The service went from trying to remove malware, failing, reinstalling, reactivating, reinstalling applications reactivating to...
"I can't get the Comcast CD to load." "My cable was out, now it tells me to run the configuration software."
Noticing the error message was from Comcast for having not picked up a new DHCP lease, I told them to forget the CD, Linux won't run the Windows program. Power down the PC and turn it back on. Problem fixed without leaving home. It's much easier to explain DHCP leases over the phone than how to remove malware.
Don't worry about the number of calls going up. It will even off as they learn the new system and learn how to configure, update, and install new features. Now they are the geek I was last year as a total noob learning the new toy.
Most step by step instructions are clear and online. It's not difficult to learn new tricks in Linux. Non-free codecs, Falshplayer 9, Firefox flashblock, and editing the hosts file are great projects to get a feel for the system.
The truth shall set you free!
You forgot to mention the Synaptic Package Manager. Easily my favorite bit about Ubuntu. It's like a gui catalog of all of the software that you can install on ubuntu. Need a chemistry program? Just search for chemistry, and boom! 28 different chemistry packages are just a mouseclick or two away from installation.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
$50? pfft.
bet theres still a $100 goes to MS clause in there somewhere.
if the vista basic is a couple hundred in the stores, presume OEM's are getting it at half that ( and passing on to consumers), so knocking off the license sticker and bundling a free OS...
smells like not quite adding up to me.
Do your own homework.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
Gnomoe sucks. When I got the Ubuntu CD it installed and ran wonderfully. But I was soon to be disapointed by Gnome. Ubuntu will bomb because of Gnome and no one will see it or realize it. They need to give you a choice of KDE or run it as the main desktop. I wont run it because of Gnome, period. Its not that Gnome is bad it just doesn't work like people expect it to. Kde for home, Gnome for the enterprise. This comment will be shrugged but I have supported software for almost 20 years and I know users; Gnome is not good for the regular end user.
Ok, by support I don't mean, "Will Dell answer questions about Ubuntu". That's probably too much to ask from Dell support, anyway.
I mean, will Dell guarantee that they've tested the shipped version of Ubuntu with the hardware, and provide the appropriate video/audio/network drivers, and test that they actually work with the hardware?
These are always the big issues in making a "windows" machine work with Linux -- often, something isn't quite right, and you have to fix it yourself, or wait for someone with more brilliance to write code to fix it.
Usually, Windows "works" (as well as it's ever going to work) on Dell laptops because it's been thoroughly tested on the hardware Dell ships.
Also, I assume the warranty won't be void and they won't throw a useless restore partition on there if I elect the Ubuntu option?
Unfortunately there are two reasons I can't/won't pick up one of these. 1. Work VPN requires Windows. And no they spend a lot of time making sure the VPN utilities can detect if they are running in a Virtual Machine to stop me doing that. So I duel boot, only needing to go in to Windows if I'm doing something work related. 2. No webcam option. I don't understand why either, the last Dell laptop I bought had a webcam that worked under Linux. A friend only last month booted his relatively Dell with the Ubuntu Live CD which found and worked with his webcam no other effort required.
To all those bitching about how a $50 discount won't convert any Windows users: you're missing the point.
Dell is in shit, in a very competitive, saturated market. Common business sense says the best thing they can do is to be the first to into a new market.
Headline: the new market is not one of potential converts from Windows - not yet, anyhow.
Dell's hoped-for market consists of :
* long-term linux users with Real Jobs who need a new PC but don't have the time or just can't be arsed to build, install, and customise Yet Another Linux Box.
* The type who sometimes, against their best wishes, might feel themselves lured back to Windows because they feel it's just *easier*.
* The type who would quite like official support on a preinstalled linux box, instead of banging their heads against the ITSupport wall when the Windows box they just bought, wiped, reinstalled & voided the warranty for has a hardware problem.
These types are likely to discriminate in the long term against a company that quoted them *more* for a preinstalled linux box. For these types, $50 is not an outright incentive, but it "is" a nice goodwill gesture. Converting Windows users comes later.
Ladies and gentlemen, Dell's intended market is *us*. And no-one's bothered with us before.
As the man said elsewhere : Vote. Wallet. Now. I know I will as soon as the UK gets the same offer.
Cheers,
C
why is it that every single possible angle of the dell deal has to be analyzed and displayed here? are you guys so desperate that you have to keep this in the public's eye as much as possible.
i guess if i were a linux fanboy i would too. linux can't sell on it's own merits.
This Dell / Ubuntu stuff is getting old and annoying. I don't give a crap if Dell sells laptops with Ubuntu. Anyone who NEEDS Dell to sell a laptop with Ubuntu on it and support that laptop is someone who should stay with Windows. For me, part of the fun of Linux is installing it myself and making it work how I want it to work. I've been using Linux since 1996 and I still have not installed Ubuntu, because I can't bring myself to install something called "Ubuntu" . It might be the best distro... I don't know.. but the name kills it for me. One more thing: Why do people complain about having to pay an extra 50 for MS windows ? To me, that seems a bit irrational, because those same people who bitch and complain and REFUSE to buy the laptop if they have to pay an extra 50 are the same people who will spend 300 on a video card or games. If I want a new laptop, 50 is not going to sway my buying decision either way, because there are more important things, like the fact that I'm going to be using it a lot and I need it to be dependable. OK... I'm finished ranting now.
And we certainly don't need arrogant ACs, either.
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Last I heard (sorry, not enough time to find a link) was the Dell were refusing to sell the Ubuntu machines to businesses and that they were marked for home use only, and therefore businesses using Windows *still* have to pay the windows tax twice (once for the OEM install and another for the VLK).
Not that I'm cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS mandated this to ensure that Dell kept their OEM status. Can't have those pesky commies in business eating into MS' rightful tax income...
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
I think most things are available to someone willing to place an order for 10,000 machines...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
There is this "Vista Makeover" for Windows XP program that makes XP look pretty similar to Vista yet without all of Vista's problems and shortcomings. I use Linux and XP, but Linux only for the InterNet and office applications and a few games, and XP for games only. As soon as I figure out how to run the Sims2 on Linux, XP will go bye bye.
what he means is that he has a team of twenty people who have been asking that question for one year. He's still trying to hire another team to answer the question.
I have a Compaq Presario V2617LA happily running Fedora 5.
However, my keyboard/touchpad died a month ago and I found out through HP's regional support that the warranty is only valid if you use the original OS that comes with the notebook (in my case, it was XP home edition).
Up until now, I had always purchased notebooks using tuxmobil.org as a guide (I even contributed a page for this particular machine), but now that Dell sells notebooks with Ubuntu and that there are other providers that sell machines with GNU/Linux AND respect their warranty, I'm never buying from a brand that screws me as a customer, EVER.
If you still have your windows partition you're probably covered, but I just wanted to get the word out to anyone considering buying a notebook to use with GNU/Linux. Please go to the providers that officially support any distribution.
This is not FUD.
I bought my computer through an official retailer in Montevideo, Uruguay. My machine has been in HP/Compaq's official support for this country since jun 7 and now their answer is that the notebook is no longer produced and that there are no spare parts to replace the keyboard/touchpad (all this on a machine I purchased 9 months ago and would still be on warranty if it wasn't for the fact that I use GNU/Linux). The support company is CNS
Here are a couple of places you can start:
ubuntu on dell
linux certified laptops
Ok so that's $20 vs cost of using a functionally equivalent non-optic mouse.
Compared to $50 vs training and productivity costs of switching to Linux, various special applications which don't run under Linux, changing/retraining Windows admins as Linux admins, interaction costs with vendors/partners/customers and so on.
And yes, they scale just as well as the hardware costs. Every bit helps, but really... If there was one move I'd *much* rather look at, it was MS Office which would go something like number of powerusers * "pissed off"-cost vs casual-to-none users * savings.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Anything that throws up more than one confirmation dialog should be shot IMO. Give the first dialog all the information, give it the appropriate "red alert" factor or in the worst case say "This has been disabled due to security policy. To change the policy, go to...". Anything else just gives me a red hot "Yes. YES. Y-E-S I want to do this, you [censored] machine!!!" fit.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
300 comments in and nobody has pointed out the obvious goal that Dell has with their Linux systems.
The point is not to make Linux reach a wider audience. Linux will remain a niche market for a while. The point is that it will be *Dell's* niche market.
If you want to buy a Linux laptop will you buy and wipe from a vendor who will later refuse to fix the hardware because windows is not installed, or will you get it form the people who offer next day, on-site assistance, not to mention guaranteed hardware compatibility.
Desktops are less obvious because many geeks build their own, but still the option is very tempting.
So, instead of trying to get a 60% of a (new) market with 50% of the desktops, Dell can go from 60% up to 100% of a smaller market (1%?), just for certifying hardware and removing software support. A good ROI if I ever saw one.
Getting people to swap from windows to linux doesn't sell more hardware. Getting linux geeks to swap from HP to Dell does.
" This will be a good fork in the road for those people who need a little extra push to take hold of our dreams and run Linux."
Fixed that for you.
-Styopa
You are about to post a reply that will spark yet another slashdto flamewar.
Cancel or allow?
Why, oh why didn't I take the blue pill^W^W^Wpress the cancel button?
The Vista system's warranty includes some software support, of course.
Ubuntu could easily match the best of Microsoft Support (as provided for 'free-as-in-beer' with a Dell) by including an audio CD containing the following bits of advice:
* Have you tried rebooting?
* Have you tried reinstalling?
* Have you tried upgrading?
* Have you tried resetting to the default settings?
* Have you tried contacting some other vendor?
* Have you tried crossing your fingers?
* Have you tried clicking your heels and repeating "There's no place like Redmond" three times?
To exceed the benchmark set by Microsoft/Dell, have the lines read by someone who speaks English natively.
We knew about this weeks upon weeks ago...and the verdict? There's still not enough reason for the average consumer to want to give up their precious windows.
It all has to do with the core philosophy of the companies. Linux does thinks with a geek in mind who want to have control (but they are moving to other, not so technical audiences) and dont mind a console sometimes. Apple does stuff thinking that the users are intelligent people that know how a computer works and dont want to be bothered. Microsoft thinks the users are perpetual and incorrigible fools in need of very little control and a lot of advice. This philosophies permeate everything this groups do.
Disclaimer: I haven't actually worked on a Vista machine yet, so I don't have a specific solution. But there are common problems that can cause this.
/dev/zero. this WILL wipe out GRUB and LILO)
:)
Vista is likely loading files off your hard drive to boot, even booting from CD (XP reads the password file among others, Vista will be no different. It may even access the registry) or is affected by corrupt BIOS or ESCD settings. (Linux uses these as little as possible, so is often not affected) I see two options. Depending on the problem(s), it might take both.
Full reset of BIOS to defaults.
-Record each and every setting first (so you can put them back later)
-Clear BIOS by pulling CMOS battery or using jumper/switch - make sure it also clears ESCD (All PnP BIOSs store ESCD settings from Windows without any way to access it. These settings are flashed into the BIOS so removing battery isn't enough, but most newer BIOSs erase it if CMOS has been cleared. Unfixable PnP bug since Win95A)
-Boot directly into BIOS and choose whatever 'Reset to defaults' option you have (use basic settings, not performance or optimized if you have the choice)
Purge current install.
-back up all of your data
-overwrite (from Linux) the first 64k of each Vista partition
-delete all vista partitions
-record entries from partition table
-(from Linux) overwrite MBR and partition table (at least entire first track. preferably dd from
-rebuild partition table (done properly, it is not necessary to reformat the Linux partitions)
-reinstall Vista
-reactivate your Linux bootloader
Try the first one. If that doesn't work, try the second. If that still doesn't work, do BOTH before booting Vista in case there is cross corruption between the registry and ESCD. Finally, if you do manage to fix it, please post somewhere how you did it so others can find out
Well, under *nixes, there's a little thingy called "su", and its partner, "sudo", with which you do all the "privileged" work you have to without the annoying "elevation prompts". I use vista at work and ubuntu at home. Ask me which of the two is the most "friendly" (to me) in this respect. Sure, users who aren't familiar with the command line are doomed to be harassed by annoying dialogs. Poor bastards, but hey, it's their fault spammers rule the nets, so it's well deserved (HA!).
LOL -- chill, buddy. I had the store build it so that they could take the risk of not having the hardware work with Feisty. I built a machine a few years ago and it didn't work right on a number of fronts. Cheap insurance, getting them to build it.
[grr]
.ppt a client sent them won't open, or that a vendor gets a fucked up looking file from OO.o conversion.
/. than running about training users how to use a different OS. It is better for Joe Employee to arrive at his new job and not have to learn a new OS.
Ubuntu better?
Can Ubuntu run MS Office, Neverwinter Nights 2, Planetside, WoW and run the latest video cards, printers etc etc without me having to learn how to compile and use run line? Wake me when it can.
i'm no Windows fan boy, but there are no ready for prime time free versions of Linux. i have Ubuntu on this machine here at work (where i am sys admin), but it can't support my dual monitors or run MS Office (or at least the version my co has). My company doesn't use OO.o, i don't have time to train 100 people how to use OO.o and explain to them why it doesn't have a grammar check. Then deal with the constant complaints that the
i would love to have a FOSS that can do everything Windows can do without having to relearn how to use a computer. Nothing would please me more than to see the cathedral crumble. But until that dream becomes a reality, Ubuntu isn't better, it's a toy (look, it's linux, oo neat, ok, now go back to windows so i can work/play). Go to your local Best Buy and compare the shelves holding programs, games and hardware for Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux. Compare the number of people with whom you can share data for those three. It's no contest.
Yes, yes, i know that those benefits of Windows are the result of monopoly and aggressive to unethical practices. i know that FOSS software is more secure and i'm all for it, i use it when ever i can. There are cases when monopoly benefits the user. Imagine if every state in the US had it's own electrical sockets. i can imagine it... i lived in Europe, you drive two hours and your shaver won't work because you need an adapter. i'd much rather see something like Linux come to be dominant, but ONLY if it totally dominates like Windows does now. It is better for developers to spend their time making ONE version of a program (and getting it right) than 3. It is better for Ma and Pa if they can grab ANY printer off the shelf to print out pictures of their kids. It is better for Joe Sys Admin to spend his time posting on
That's a big downside for Linux even within itself. There are dozens of flavors of linux. The community must pick ONE and forget the rest if it wants to compete against m$. They could have flavors of one OS (pro, home, server), but the fundamental interface must be the same from flavor to flavor.
Most of the problems people have with Windows are due to it being the Tall Poppy, the big target, or user incompetence. Kind of like the US in the world, now that i think of it.
[/grr]
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Thanks for the suggestions. I used the BIOS "Restore Defaults" option, and the Vista partition showed up on the list of repairable drives. The repair seems to sit for hours with no drive activity. Also, now that the drive is visible, I have the option of choosing restore points. The restore function reports that the disk is corrupted and brings me to the disk repair function. I have let the disk repair function run for over an hour. I don't know if the repair function is doing anything, however. The disk activity light remains off. However, unlike previous attempts, the caps lock and num lock lights respond to the keyboard.
Anyways, thanks for the pointers.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
After reading this LOL'able thread I thought I would respond. For the record I run Vista Ultimate X64 @ work setup to VT with Ubuntu Edgy and Open Suse 10.2. I'm a big linux user and its the basis of my job almost day in and day out within the server world. (yes i also use it as a desktop). Anyways - I wanted to say that 90% of the problems all the hardcore linux nerds are bringing up don't even happen. I use Vista Ultimate as my main O/S - it runs perfectly and I have yet to have a single lock up, crash, or major problem. The change from XP to Vista is a very large one and I can not wait till my home system can run it. I did run into the issue of lots of security prompts. However some people can't read manuals or Microsofts site - so they don't understand how to - EASILY - customize how those security features work. They make absolute sense for 99% of basic computer users out there who have no idea of what a security risk is. Anyways - I really wanted to say that I would rather deal with prompts ALL day long rather than sit in package dependency hell ALL day long. For example has anyone ever setup Amarok on Suse 10.2? If not you should. It took me 2 days and 40 additional package installs including removal of Suse distributed packages and installation of packages from packman so that features like - mp3 playback - could be achieved. Last time I checked installing Winamp was 4 clicks and 5 minutes tops - installing Amarok was about 400 times longer. Anyone that thinks linux is the answer, or even Ubuntu (woops - the new kernel doesn't like P/S2 devices - manually patch your kernel...) is living in a friggin fantasy world. Linux has so many hurdles and roadblocks in its way that it would be simply amazing to see it be on more desktops than say, OSX. While Linux makes sense for strong computer users it makes very little sense for anyone else. Until then lets all bash Vista when we haven't even used it cause we are bunch of fanboy tools.
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KMenu/System/More Applications/File Manager--Super User Mode
Or to run a program I click;
KMenu/Run Command... and from the dialog click Options then check run as different user and fill in root/password
I agree with your post generally, excepting; Sure, users who aren't familiar with the command line are doomed to be harassed by annoying dialogs. I don't think Linux or KDE should focus on banishing the command line or anything, but those tips should keep new users fom being tempted to run as root, and as they begin to understand computers better will see how in many cases the commandline can remove complications instead of adding them.
For instance I currently have 3 xorg.conf files that I rename depending on which monitor(s) or TV is/are on. For a while I thought gui/drag n drop made the operations easier. It turned out not to be true in my case.
I Checked out the Ubuntu Dell 1420 page. I Don't know if this is new but if you click on the link "Discount details it displays the same details".
So claims this InformationWeek review, Ubuntu Linux's Achilles' Heel: It's Tough To Install On Laptops The wildly popular Linux distro isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially if you try to install it on a laptop, our reviewer Alex Wolfe finds. Come along on his Ubuntu safari, as he hacks his way through bug-fraught installation attempts.