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I know of no new development done on java applications

Come on, Java server development is still going strong

I mean, some companies are still using Cobol, and you think Java is going anywhere?

Not to mention not all Android developers have moved to Kotlin, that is a many year process - in the meantime there is a ton of Android Java code, and even new apps being developed in Java until widespread Kotlin expertise ramps up.

"write once, run everywhere". fucking pack of lies that is.

Why? That actually worked well. In the past I worked on desktop Java apps that I could run across various systems (and still work today).

When I moved to server development, we would sometimes shift between systems like Solaris and Linux or some BSD variants, but while we may have had to tune the VM we did not change the code...

It's all about the blockchain these days.

Go open a job board and you'll see companies looking for blockchain programmers, blockchain data scientists, even blockchain community managers and blockchain marketing associates because those blockchains aren't going to market themselves.

Browsing few, I even see a listing for a blockchain blogging expert. That's a real job, apparently. Somehow.

Everything is better with Blockchain. ;-)

It's all about the blockchain these days.

Go open a job board and you'll see companies looking for blockchain programmers, blockchain data scientists, even blockchain community managers and blockchain marketing associates because those blockchains aren't going to market themselves.

Browsing few, I even see a listing for a blockchain blogging expert. That's a real job, apparently. Somehow.

Everything is better with Blockchain. ;-)

I haven't seen anything at all resembling the urban legend horror stories.

Urban legend? You can literally read horror stories written by ex-Amazon employs all over the place. Here's some. Now, I agree, you can't always trust these people, but it certainly isn't an urban legend.

https://www.indeed.com/salarie...
$70,573, not bad considering the median wage in the US in 2017 was ~$44k
https://www.thebalancecareers....

Then why did they fire their QA team?

Did they STAY "fired", or were they just replaced with a different Team?

Spoiler Alert: See below for the answer...

Considering the fact that Apple does their own Mechanical Product Testing, I would be VERY surprised if they didn't have an internal (human) Software QA Team, too.

In fact, these recent Job Postings make it pretty clear that Apple most CERTAINLY has an internal Software QA Team:

https://jobs.apple.com/us/sear...

https://www.indeed.com/q-QA-En...

Checkmate.

BTW, found those in one 5 second Google search.

Crab fisherman and oil workers in Kansas and Ohio? I'm sure there's plenty of those jobs - more than enough to go round for any of Amazon's 200,000 employees who feel underpaid (at least the percentage of them with strong enough backs).

You say the jobs aren't skilled, yet the working conditions are "all able to kill you in a moment's notice", so probably they're gonna need experience or intensive training at least - and even then, average wages are rather less than you apparently think, even for trained engineers (or just not as common as all that).

And I like how you sweepingly equate "undereducated" with "drug problems", "alcoholism", and an automatic inability to save for the future - nice profiling there. Best keep all those people away from any cash, probably only make things worse for them.

Crab fisherman and oil workers in Kansas and Ohio? I'm sure there's plenty of those jobs - more than enough to go round for any of Amazon's 200,000 employees who feel underpaid (at least the percentage of them with strong enough backs).

You say the jobs aren't skilled, yet the working conditions are "all able to kill you in a moment's notice", so probably they're gonna need experience or intensive training at least - and even then, average wages are rather less than you apparently think, even for trained engineers (or just not as common as all that).

And I like how you sweepingly equate "undereducated" with "drug problems", "alcoholism", and an automatic inability to save for the future - nice profiling there. Best keep all those people away from any cash, probably only make things worse for them.

Crab fisherman and oil workers in Kansas and Ohio? I'm sure there's plenty of those jobs - more than enough to go round for any of Amazon's 200,000 employees who feel underpaid (at least the percentage of them with strong enough backs).

You say the jobs aren't skilled, yet the working conditions are "all able to kill you in a moment's notice", so probably they're gonna need experience or intensive training at least - and even then, average wages are rather less than you apparently think, even for trained engineers (or just not as common as all that).

And I like how you sweepingly equate "undereducated" with "drug problems", "alcoholism", and an automatic inability to save for the future - nice profiling there. Best keep all those people away from any cash, probably only make things worse for them.

Nobody "makes money from the Presidency" from the salary. The salary is smaller than some programmers earn around Silicon Valley.

Um, no The POTUS salary is $400k/year. That's well over half the top salary for a Silicon Valley programmer.

The real problem is that tech companies want to pay programmers blue collar wages.. This is why their push for minorities to learn programming is no more than an attempt to saturate the market with skilled programmers to depress wages.

That's a bit far-fetched, considering that the average wage for a programmer is 3x the average blue collar wage. What a job is worth depends on how much productivity it generates. An employer will be willing to pay up to slightly less than the productivity generated by a job. If programming is more productive than blue collar work, then employers will always be willing to pay more for it.

It's the employer's job to try to reduce costs (wages). It's the employee's job to try to raise them (by asking for pay increases, and jumping ship to another company offering better pay if they feel they're underpaid). Where they meet in the middle is usually a pretty good indicator of what the job is actually worth (how much productivity it generates). Eliminate either and the entire market economy breaks down. You can't fault employers for doing what they're supposed to do in a functional market. (For the same reason, I never fault employees for asking for a pay raise (unless they just got one). I expect them to be keeping tabs on how much their job pays at other companies, and I expect them to ask for more if we're falling below what other companies pay.)

Whether more people decide to go into programming isn't up to the employers. It's a function of how much such jobs are paying vs how many (how few) people have the ability to perform those jobs. Criticism of pushes to encourage more minorities and women to take up programming is hypocritical - nothing more than an attempt to artificially constrain the labor market to boost wages. Ideally, everyone should be exposed to all possible career choices, so they can decide for themselves what they're best at. We keep art and music programs around for the same reason. While those fields typically result in low-paying jobs, you still want to expose kids to them so you can detect a fledgling Picasso or Mozart, and correctly guide them into that field.

If you're still not convinced, consider this: A blue collar worker who learns programming skills and gets a programming job lowers programming salaries slightly. But they also increase blue collar salaries slightly. You can't increase the supply of programmers in a vacuum. That additional supply has to come from somewhere. If it's coming from a lower-paying field like blue collar jobs, then it's a net win for everyone. The total productivity of the economy has gone up (programming job is more productive than the blue collar job so employers make more). And the total wages received has also gone up (person now earns more as a programmer than as a blue collar worker). Win-win.

The real problem is that tech companies want to pay programmers blue collar wages.. This is why their push for minorities to learn programming is no more than an attempt to saturate the market with skilled programmers to depress wages.

That's a bit far-fetched, considering that the average wage for a programmer is 3x the average blue collar wage. What a job is worth depends on how much productivity it generates. An employer will be willing to pay up to slightly less than the productivity generated by a job. If programming is more productive than blue collar work, then employers will always be willing to pay more for it.

It's the employer's job to try to reduce costs (wages). It's the employee's job to try to raise them (by asking for pay increases, and jumping ship to another company offering better pay if they feel they're underpaid). Where they meet in the middle is usually a pretty good indicator of what the job is actually worth (how much productivity it generates). Eliminate either and the entire market economy breaks down. You can't fault employers for doing what they're supposed to do in a functional market. (For the same reason, I never fault employees for asking for a pay raise (unless they just got one). I expect them to be keeping tabs on how much their job pays at other companies, and I expect them to ask for more if we're falling below what other companies pay.)

Whether more people decide to go into programming isn't up to the employers. It's a function of how much such jobs are paying vs how many (how few) people have the ability to perform those jobs. Criticism of pushes to encourage more minorities and women to take up programming is hypocritical - nothing more than an attempt to artificially constrain the labor market to boost wages. Ideally, everyone should be exposed to all possible career choices, so they can decide for themselves what they're best at. We keep art and music programs around for the same reason. While those fields typically result in low-paying jobs, you still want to expose kids to them so you can detect a fledgling Picasso or Mozart, and correctly guide them into that field.

If you're still not convinced, consider this: A blue collar worker who learns programming skills and gets a programming job lowers programming salaries slightly. But they also increase blue collar salaries slightly. You can't increase the supply of programmers in a vacuum. That additional supply has to come from somewhere. If it's coming from a lower-paying field like blue collar jobs, then it's a net win for everyone. The total productivity of the economy has gone up (programming job is more productive than the blue collar job so employers make more). And the total wages received has also gone up (person now earns more as a programmer than as a blue collar worker). Win-win.

Indeed.com :P

Ever since Apple got rid of its QA department things have gone downhill fast.

What? This is an July 18, 2017 description of what it's like to work as a "Quality Assurance Analyst" for Apple.

Creimer, since you just lost your job at Solar City, here's a job listing for Amazon Delivery Associate at $15/hour.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/On-Courier-365/jobs/Amazon-Delivery-Associate-Daily-Bonus-dc4bef8f804b92b5

You should post your resume on Indeed if you want to get recruiter emails for Dell tech drivers.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Your skillset.

• Simulink Embedded Coder
• ISO 26262
• DO-178C
• CANape/CANalyzer
• dSpace/ETAS Hardware in the Loop testing.

  Are the big keywords I search for. Python, Matlab, Data Analytics all turn up noise. Also a smattering of SQL, Linux, Cloud, etc knowledge that really isn't relevant to the jobs I apply to but has definitely come in handy.

  What area of the country you are in.

  Flyover Country. But I've found and applied to jobs across the US.

  Your age.

  Closer to 40 than 30.

  Where did you get your degree.

  Big 10.

  Now, are there any details that could guide me on what skills I'm missing? Nope!

  Well, I don't know what skills you have.

Wow. The butthurt is strong with this AC. Would it have not hurt your feels as much if I said "Take an entry-level position and try harder than everyone around you"?

There are 16,128 IT jobs posted on Indeed in Minneapolis If you can't find a job you're not trying hard enough. The world doesn't owe you anything, the sooner you accept that the happier you will be.

Who proceeded to use your own foul language repeated back to you as evidence to discredit the argument?

Not sure why you're so fixated on the language rather than the point.

How should I break it to all of my peers that they're too old to do their job? Especially the new ones that just got hired?

If you have the right skillsets you will never be unemployed.

However I feel like if half of the older slashdotters got into an interview they'd spend the entire time telling the interviewer why their technology stack was wrong.

"Simulink Embedded Coder? Simulink Sucks. It's closed source. You should be hand writing all of that in C".

"CAN? CAN is a terrible insecure protocol. What you need is a good ole fashioned RS485 network for your vehicle bus"

"dSpace? That is terribly over priced. You should just knock out something similar with a RaspberryPi and Arduino!"

How should I break it to all of my peers that they're too old to do their job? Especially the new ones that just got hired?

If you have the right skillsets you will never be unemployed.

However I feel like if half of the older slashdotters got into an interview they'd spend the entire time telling the interviewer why their technology stack was wrong.

"Simulink Embedded Coder? Simulink Sucks. It's closed source. You should be hand writing all of that in C".

"CAN? CAN is a terrible insecure protocol. What you need is a good ole fashioned RS485 network for your vehicle bus"

"dSpace? That is terribly over priced. You should just knock out something similar with a RaspberryPi and Arduino!"

How should I break it to all of my peers that they're too old to do their job? Especially the new ones that just got hired?

If you have the right skillsets you will never be unemployed.

However I feel like if half of the older slashdotters got into an interview they'd spend the entire time telling the interviewer why their technology stack was wrong.

"Simulink Embedded Coder? Simulink Sucks. It's closed source. You should be hand writing all of that in C".

"CAN? CAN is a terrible insecure protocol. What you need is a good ole fashioned RS485 network for your vehicle bus"

"dSpace? That is terribly over priced. You should just knock out something similar with a RaspberryPi and Arduino!"

try any of these
https://www.indeed.com/q-Softw...
https://www.indeed.com/q-Softw...

try any of these
https://www.indeed.com/q-Softw...
https://www.indeed.com/q-Softw...

A 5 second search on a single, non-Mainframe specific job site disproves your assertion that there are "no COBOL jobs". Might be wise to learn the difference between your reality and objective reality before commenting.

You're right. There's a good chance that it's going to be written by someone with a ME or EE background in controls. Most likely in Simulink. The job descriptions back this up.

• Control Systems Engineer - Uber Technologies
• Mechanical Engineering Analyst - Uber Technologies

You're right. There's a good chance that it's going to be written by someone with a ME or EE background in controls. Most likely in Simulink. The job descriptions back this up.

• Control Systems Engineer - Uber Technologies
• Mechanical Engineering Analyst - Uber Technologies

"Now, I've gotten old and I decided I liked money a lot, so I left my job as a programmer after nearly 20 years and moved onto being an network instructor."

Thanks for the interesting programming career story and perspective which obviously reflects a lot of talent, hard work, and success as a software developer. While training is important and well worth doing for lots of reasons, I still don't quite follow from your story how a move to training would pay significantly better than programming?

Example for the US:
https://www.indeed.com/salarie...
"Average [hourly] salary: $17.60 [with the tail going up to around $50]"

Granted, sometimes people run onsite training seminars for tens of trainees for totaling thousands of dollars a day (sometimes less hotel conference room rentals and travel expenses etc.). So maybe that is your angle? But even, say, 50 training sessions a year times $5K each is only $250K gross revenue, less after expenses, and travelling can be tiresome -- so overall still seems iffy to me compared to programming in a well-paying position or on an independent (successful) project.

That said, I've enjoyed the times I've taught other people things related to computers, so I won't deny the general appeal -- especially later in a career.

And that's where the current crop of jobs are as well:

Searching for dSpace/Python jobs around Detroit: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

http://www.jobjuncture.com/job...">Here's one that pays well:

Requires Python, C, C++, Ethernet UDP, and a whole host of other 'programming' even if the primary role of the job isn't a coder.

And here's an embedded controls job that requires knowledge of programming on top of the engineering.

So to all those wondering where the jobs are, I question if you're 1) looking 2) have relevant job skills. If you're the coding equivalent of a 'keyboardist' then yes, you are going to have a hard time finding jobs going forward. Otherwise, you shouldn't be worried.

Paywalled...... Sucks, I would have loved to read that. Oh well. I guess if I wanna afford to read the Wall Street Journal I better Check. These. Out.. Instead.

Have you considered that you don't have modern, relevant job skills?

How in demand are drafters? A drafter will tell you they're 'highly skilled' and it's because of their age that they can't get hired when that's not the case. We taught CAD to engineers a long time ago.

Listening to Slashdotters 'gui programming' is laughable, stupid, and will never work. Yet there are Simulink jobs everywhere across the US.

Just scanning Indeed.

3000+ FORTRAN Jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ COBOL jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ Simulink jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

~1000 Lua jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

Most of those are 60k+ and quite a few 95k+. So I'm at a loss as to how there can be so many open jobs and so many people claiming they can't find any jobs. Somewhere there is a disconnect and I'm going to guess it's that people don't have relevant job skills.

Have you considered that you don't have modern, relevant job skills?

How in demand are drafters? A drafter will tell you they're 'highly skilled' and it's because of their age that they can't get hired when that's not the case. We taught CAD to engineers a long time ago.

Listening to Slashdotters 'gui programming' is laughable, stupid, and will never work. Yet there are Simulink jobs everywhere across the US.

Just scanning Indeed.

3000+ FORTRAN Jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ COBOL jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ Simulink jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

~1000 Lua jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

Most of those are 60k+ and quite a few 95k+. So I'm at a loss as to how there can be so many open jobs and so many people claiming they can't find any jobs. Somewhere there is a disconnect and I'm going to guess it's that people don't have relevant job skills.

Have you considered that you don't have modern, relevant job skills?

How in demand are drafters? A drafter will tell you they're 'highly skilled' and it's because of their age that they can't get hired when that's not the case. We taught CAD to engineers a long time ago.

Listening to Slashdotters 'gui programming' is laughable, stupid, and will never work. Yet there are Simulink jobs everywhere across the US.

Just scanning Indeed.

3000+ FORTRAN Jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ COBOL jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ Simulink jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

~1000 Lua jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

Most of those are 60k+ and quite a few 95k+. So I'm at a loss as to how there can be so many open jobs and so many people claiming they can't find any jobs. Somewhere there is a disconnect and I'm going to guess it's that people don't have relevant job skills.

Have you considered that you don't have modern, relevant job skills?

How in demand are drafters? A drafter will tell you they're 'highly skilled' and it's because of their age that they can't get hired when that's not the case. We taught CAD to engineers a long time ago.

Listening to Slashdotters 'gui programming' is laughable, stupid, and will never work. Yet there are Simulink jobs everywhere across the US.

Just scanning Indeed.

3000+ FORTRAN Jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ COBOL jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

3000+ Simulink jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

~1000 Lua jobs: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...

Most of those are 60k+ and quite a few 95k+. So I'm at a loss as to how there can be so many open jobs and so many people claiming they can't find any jobs. Somewhere there is a disconnect and I'm going to guess it's that people don't have relevant job skills.

The only response 'modern' technologies seem to get from Slashdot is how the 'old way is better'' and "it'll never work". "Those kids are going to have to deploy apache servers BY HAND like I used to. None of that Docker Cloud Crap".

For example "graphical programming languages", which by Slashdot standards are terrible, has a lot of job openings. There are plenty of jobs for hardware in the loop (HIL) testers. Same goes for people that know CAN/J1939 and the tools that go with it

For those training their replacements, I don't see what the problem is. I hate doing parts of my job, I've already done it once. I would be able to train a high school graduate to do 90% of it and if they have questions I'll be around for the other 10%. But it means that I get to concentrate on doing something else. If you're doing the same thing for more than a year heads up, someone or something is trying to automate it and replace you. Unless you think companies should still be bootstrapping a new Laptop instal by hand instead of having an imaging server.

I'm sure the older engineers that were replaced by kids straight out of college that knew CAD thought they were 'highly skilled' workers as well. Turns out an engineer that can draft is cheaper than an engineer AND a drafter. But don't let that get in the way of the narrative that your skills are 'up to date'.

There are jobs out there. A lot of them.

The only response 'modern' technologies seem to get from Slashdot is how the 'old way is better'' and "it'll never work". "Those kids are going to have to deploy apache servers BY HAND like I used to. None of that Docker Cloud Crap".

For example "graphical programming languages", which by Slashdot standards are terrible, has a lot of job openings. There are plenty of jobs for hardware in the loop (HIL) testers. Same goes for people that know CAN/J1939 and the tools that go with it

For those training their replacements, I don't see what the problem is. I hate doing parts of my job, I've already done it once. I would be able to train a high school graduate to do 90% of it and if they have questions I'll be around for the other 10%. But it means that I get to concentrate on doing something else. If you're doing the same thing for more than a year heads up, someone or something is trying to automate it and replace you. Unless you think companies should still be bootstrapping a new Laptop instal by hand instead of having an imaging server.

I'm sure the older engineers that were replaced by kids straight out of college that knew CAD thought they were 'highly skilled' workers as well. Turns out an engineer that can draft is cheaper than an engineer AND a drafter. But don't let that get in the way of the narrative that your skills are 'up to date'.

There are jobs out there. A lot of them.

The only response 'modern' technologies seem to get from Slashdot is how the 'old way is better'' and "it'll never work". "Those kids are going to have to deploy apache servers BY HAND like I used to. None of that Docker Cloud Crap".

For example "graphical programming languages", which by Slashdot standards are terrible, has a lot of job openings. There are plenty of jobs for hardware in the loop (HIL) testers. Same goes for people that know CAN/J1939 and the tools that go with it

For those training their replacements, I don't see what the problem is. I hate doing parts of my job, I've already done it once. I would be able to train a high school graduate to do 90% of it and if they have questions I'll be around for the other 10%. But it means that I get to concentrate on doing something else. If you're doing the same thing for more than a year heads up, someone or something is trying to automate it and replace you. Unless you think companies should still be bootstrapping a new Laptop instal by hand instead of having an imaging server.

I'm sure the older engineers that were replaced by kids straight out of college that knew CAD thought they were 'highly skilled' workers as well. Turns out an engineer that can draft is cheaper than an engineer AND a drafter. But don't let that get in the way of the narrative that your skills are 'up to date'.

There are jobs out there. A lot of them.

The only response 'modern' technologies seem to get from Slashdot is how the 'old way is better'' and "it'll never work". "Those kids are going to have to deploy apache servers BY HAND like I used to. None of that Docker Cloud Crap".

For example "graphical programming languages", which by Slashdot standards are terrible, has a lot of job openings. There are plenty of jobs for hardware in the loop (HIL) testers. Same goes for people that know CAN/J1939 and the tools that go with it

For those training their replacements, I don't see what the problem is. I hate doing parts of my job, I've already done it once. I would be able to train a high school graduate to do 90% of it and if they have questions I'll be around for the other 10%. But it means that I get to concentrate on doing something else. If you're doing the same thing for more than a year heads up, someone or something is trying to automate it and replace you. Unless you think companies should still be bootstrapping a new Laptop instal by hand instead of having an imaging server.

I'm sure the older engineers that were replaced by kids straight out of college that knew CAD thought they were 'highly skilled' workers as well. Turns out an engineer that can draft is cheaper than an engineer AND a drafter. But don't let that get in the way of the narrative that your skills are 'up to date'.

There are jobs out there. A lot of them.

Simulink does that already and the sky hasn't fallen. There are plenty of jobs to be found.

I've, for the most part, forgotten a lot of my C because it's not needed. Turns out you don't have to know strict C to be able to think through logic problems.

Have you ever considered that those jobs are the current crop of 'bugger flippers'? The next step is minimum wage and then automation.

It's been that way for nearly every profession since the beginning of time. How many people to cotton farmers hire to pick cotton? It was literally slave work before it was automated. Companies stopped hiring C developers for automotive style work when Simulink started writing better C.

There are plenty of jobs out there for 'skilled workers' with 2016 skills.

There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.

Well then perhaps they should start applying to more places. Here's a short list of 4 job searches just within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+).
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one. [dice.com]. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.

If those 'degreed programmers' can't find a job perhaps they don't have skills relevant to the job market anymore. I don't know about you but I could personally apply to a majority of those positions and get a call back within a day. (And I do every so often to ball park my worth on the open job market).

There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.

Well then perhaps they should start applying to more places. Here's a short list of 4 job searches just within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+).
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one. [dice.com]. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.

If those 'degreed programmers' can't find a job perhaps they don't have skills relevant to the job market anymore. I don't know about you but I could personally apply to a majority of those positions and get a call back within a day. (And I do every so often to ball park my worth on the open job market).

There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.

Well then perhaps they should start applying to more places. Here's a short list of 4 job searches just within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+).
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one. [dice.com]. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.

If those 'degreed programmers' can't find a job perhaps they don't have skills relevant to the job market anymore. I don't know about you but I could personally apply to a majority of those positions and get a call back within a day. (And I do every so often to ball park my worth on the open job market).

There are plenty of degreed programmers that can't get jobs, and it's because companies claim they need senior level guys.

Well then perhaps they should start applying to more places. Here's a short list of 4 job searches just within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+).
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one. [dice.com]. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.

If those 'degreed programmers' can't find a job perhaps they don't have skills relevant to the job market anymore. I don't know about you but I could personally apply to a majority of those positions and get a call back within a day. (And I do every so often to ball park my worth on the open job market).

When I hear "Took our Jerbs" I'm reminded of Bob.

Bob was 5 years away from retirement when I started in 2005.

Bob refused to learn AutoCAD. He "didn't trust it". Any task that required drawing would take Bob 5-10x as long as anyone else.

We put an intern in charge of shadowing Bob.

When Bob retired his job was taken over by a few python scripts (He didn't trust Excel's Sort either) and the other stuff was absorbed by fresh graduates that worked much cheaper than Bob.

Bob insisted he was 'highly skilled' because he had a Masters Degree. He thought he was in high demand and could take off to any company when in reality it was just too much work to fire him and he did his job 'ok' enough to make it to retirement. If Bob was in his 30s or 40s we would have dropped him for a fresh college graduate that had modern skills. Bob would have probably sat on Slashdot complaining about being "highly skilled" but not being able to find a job.

For all those "highly skilled programmers" looking for jobs, here are a few within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+). (Simulink is a 'dirty' graphical programming language that Slashdot likes to mock.)
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one.. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.

When I hear "Took our Jerbs" I'm reminded of Bob.

Bob was 5 years away from retirement when I started in 2005.

Bob refused to learn AutoCAD. He "didn't trust it". Any task that required drawing would take Bob 5-10x as long as anyone else.

We put an intern in charge of shadowing Bob.

When Bob retired his job was taken over by a few python scripts (He didn't trust Excel's Sort either) and the other stuff was absorbed by fresh graduates that worked much cheaper than Bob.

Bob insisted he was 'highly skilled' because he had a Masters Degree. He thought he was in high demand and could take off to any company when in reality it was just too much work to fire him and he did his job 'ok' enough to make it to retirement. If Bob was in his 30s or 40s we would have dropped him for a fresh college graduate that had modern skills. Bob would have probably sat on Slashdot complaining about being "highly skilled" but not being able to find a job.

For all those "highly skilled programmers" looking for jobs, here are a few within 25 miles of Farmington Hills, MI.

- Simulink (99 of them are $100k+). (Simulink is a 'dirty' graphical programming language that Slashdot likes to mock.)
- RTOS
- dSpace
- OSEK

They even have sponsored job listings like this one.. (I doubt they'd pay to sponsor it if they're just using it as an excuse to hire a H1B). Full time. Very good Embedded C knowledge required. Also need to have relevant modern skills like knowledge of CAN, LIN, and FlexRay.

Those results can be replicated in multiple parts of the country. Look for locations near any Aerospace, Heavy Machinery or Automotive companies.