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Does it run Linux? :)

Uhm you know, Linux is available for 64-bit processors, at least for the pSeries boxes (PPC - PowerPC proc). http://www.penguinppc.org/ && (http://www.linuxppc.org/ || http://www.linuxppc.com/). SuSE has a distro for this, I believe. Not so sure about RedHat - although I think their 7.1 release did have a port for PPC.

I gave up on them because a year went by and there wasn't anything new.

Gee, I can't think of any other godawful redhat derivatives like that...

Thank heavens for other options, huh?

--saint

I have a recient iBook that dual boots Debain and OS X. There are a bunch of distros that I can think of off the top of my head that work on it: LinuxPPC [defunct?], Debian, Yellow Dog Linux [Red Hat based], and SuSE. The dual boot setup is pretty easy for those with linux experience, a guid is available here. I have to give Apple props for the case design, among other things. My only complaints are the 8meg ATI Rage 128 Mobility [it lags a bit] and a soft modem which is unusable under Linux. I got the AirPort card to work {kernel compile), but the lack of a modem irks me because in having a laptop portability is a must and that includes having a working modem. Overall I am happy with my purchase, BUT a PowerBook G4 would be nice... Oh yeah, when you buy an Apple you avoid the Microsoft Tax completely (and it comes with a nice *NIX preinstaled too!) =)

• Yellow Dog
• Linux PPC
• Mac On Linux
• 68k Linux
• MkLinux -the original Mac distro

The company LinuxPPC.com converted from to a nonprofit corp a while ago (January 2001-ish), see slashdot story, around the time not only that lots of open-source companies were struggling, but also in the wake of Jason Hass' dreadful injuries after being hit by a drunk driver and his decision to go to college.

On a side note, I finally tried out Mandrake 8.1 x86. That is an AWESOME graphical install!!! Almost as nice as installing Mac OS X.

Although the FSF does not charge for software, they certainly do accept donations and have information about it here. Cygwin was developed very much in the spirit and philosophy of the GNU project, and if you make a donation and inform both FSF and Cygwin that it's a token of recognition for Cygwin, you can be certain that there will be good will and warm vibes all around. You'll also be helping Cygwin in a material way, because they benefit from the FSF's efforts, and the FSF has operating costs that you'll be helping them defray.

The LinuxPPC project also encourages donations to the FSF -- when you order their stuff online, there's a box where you can enter any amount you'd like to donate.

I'm probably sounding like more of a fan of the FSF than I really am here -- sometimes RMS grates me in the profoundest way -- but I just think this is what fits your desires best. There's nothing excessively material and unworthy about donating cash; many organizations make good use of it and will be deeply grateful. If that's a way for you to get a warm, fuzzy feeling, go do it. The fuzzies will surely come right back at you.

I too went down the road of the Mac/Linux dual boot box. For me it was LinuxPPC...basically a rework of Redhat. Once I had it running, I was truly satisfied with my accomplishment (its no small feat, so kudos). Certainly in the documentation with LinuxPPC, it was noted that software for intel boxes was not going to run on my LinuxPPC box unless it had be ported to do so. Has this changed??? All in all Linux lasted about 5 days on my Mac. I went and scooped a cheap PII and everything worked out of the box. IMO the community of people interested in running Linux on Mac hardware is too small to have the kind of work, support and stability seen on other hardware. With the release of OSX, this will only get more true.

LinuxPPC announced its intentions on becoming a non-profit company earlier this year. Here's the link:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0101/25.linuxp pc.shtml

Yup, linuxppc is pretty cool.

and there isnt even a web server platform that runs on the mac!

Really? Then what's this? Oh, and how about this? And then there's this, and this! Don't forget this. And finally, there's this! Now I figure either you meant to say something else, or you just don't know what you're talking about. If it's the former, perhaps you should clarify. If the latter you just lost alot of credibility in my mind.

-----
"Goose... Geese... Moose... MOOSE!?!?!"

You may get a better response if you pose this question on
xlr8yourmac
macslash or
Linux on PPC FAQ-O-matic
other sites to look at may be:
www.linuxppc.com
www.linuxppc.org
I did a search on Google some time ago on the same topic and found some links on OpeneFirmware hacks to give a CLI style bootloader similar to the Lilo, BSD or NT bootloaders. I used keywords like openfirmware, linux, and bootloader, or something. I'll be in a similar situation soon, if I had more time right now I'd do the searching myself and report my results.

The comment from an anonymous user called "My two cents, or the story of how I met my wife" is actually from me, Jason Haas, of Linux PPC and Slashdot fame.

My comment, because of a browser fuckup, wasn't recorded as being from me. (I guess Konquerer doesn't like Slashdot's cookies!)

If you're wondering, the AC who posted that is me. The article I tried to link to in the comment was the Slashdot coverage of what happened to me back in March 2000. (I'm much better now!)

And all I wanted to do was tell the story of how I met my wife, which was due to the net! :)

So, please, look for my story. It's a good one. :-)

Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.

--

Jason's whole story about the accident is here. Apparenty, the dickhead who hit him had a BAC of 0.25, and will be charged with three felonies. Trial will be some time in January.

Presently, it's either Apple or nobody. There were shining hopes for something better, but it never appeared.

Actually, there are many non-Apple PPC computers that run Linux (though admittedly *new* non-Apple PPC hardware is hard to come by).

For example, there's the RS/6000 IBM boxes, BeBoxes, Amiga APUS, and Motorola and Bull boxes. And, of course, TiVo and other embedded platforms.

Check out http://www.linuxppc.com/about/hardware/ for a complete list of supported hardware.

Still, the OpenPPC.org bit has been a bitter disappointment so far. Ah well, keep your fingers and toes crossed...

HTH

Ethelred

Just to clear something up, Jason's car was a Honda Accordion.

--

A lot has happened in the past few days! We're making the most of the "2000" part of the product's name. ;-)

As has been noted on here, the LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 ISO images are now available. Look on our FTP mirror list or on LinuxISO.org.

The CD-ROM set (FWB HDT*PE, install, extras, and source) is now available for pre-order. Shipping is scheduled to begin on January 10.

We have changed our subscription policy and lowered the prices on Myth II and Applixware Office.

And, www.linuxppc.ne.jp has gone live. Look for the announcement about the Japanese version of LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 on there.

That's it. Whew! :-D

Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.

Just look at our FTP mirrors. It's also on LinuxISO.org.

Also, the Macworld Expo is in less than two weeks.

It's not just hype. Please reserve your cynicism. :-)

Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.

Those have been up for almost a year. Does anyone know where to get the Q4 iso? I've checked several of the ftp links from linuxppc.com, all seem to be the 2000 release that's been around for a while.

--

I installed LinuxPPC 2000 a month or so ago on a PowerPC 7200/90. The computer booted off the CD (obtained from linuxiso.org), installed, and then ran just fine. The boot loader lets you choose to boot either Mac OS (7.5 in my case) or LinuxPPC. Simply pressing TAB stops the count-down timer to stop automatic booting.

Two differences between my installation and yours: I installed on a second drive rather than on the same drive as Mac OS. Second, I have old world roms rather than new world roms.

No problems to date; rock solid distro.

I don't subscribe to the notion that these are in opposition to one another. That OpenBSD is not always the answer is very true. But all good things have their purposes. In fact, I use them both in my segmented, handy-man-special, home network:

OpenBSD for Mac68K (all these were bought for a pittance on eBay):
2 Quadra 700s: transparent firewall (ipf) and 3-legged NAT (ipnat)
Quadra 610: mail server (qmail)
Centris 610 (w/68040): dns server (djbdns)

LinuxPPC: (Bastille'd by using the Sparc trick on the FAQ)
2 7300s: apache and MySQL (soon to be PostgreSQL?)
9500/G3: mol / streaming with videod, icecast (Better choices are welcome.)
Pismo PowerBook: dual boot

I haven't had as many years using Linux (only 2) as you have. And aside from that my computer experience amounts to a few mid-'80s semesters of VAXen and the entire life of the Mac platform -- and around 4 months of NetBSD and OpenBSD. But I have to say it (adding BSD to the mix) hasn't been that hard at all. There are many similarities with Linux. Much of your current knowledge will transfer. For anyone who has learned guitar and then tried bass, or ukulele, you've experienced this before.

-B...

Damn this infernal contraption. It posted before I had gotten behind the steering wheel.

What I meant to say here was that LinuxPPC does not run on the computer specified (6116CD PowerMac).

From the LinuxPPC website:

"LinuxPPC runs on PowerPC computers with a PCI bus. If your computer is NuBus-based, you can run MkLinux. LinuxPPC will not run on these machines."

So I guess this 11 year old you've been observing is a pretty tough-ass hacker to have ported LinuxPPC to a nubus computer like the 6116CD. Whoah!

But to get serious here for a minute and address the original poster's comment about installing Win2k on these charity boxes...Who is going to foot the bill for the license? The OS alone will cost more than what these computers are worth. And if the hardware could handle Win2k, then it doesn't sound like it's going to be donated to the charities anytime soon. To state the obvious, this looks like an ideal situation for a free OS that runs on obsolete hardware. There are plenty of choices out there....

...and that is about all that they are good for! Just keep your fingers off the mouse button, and Photoshop in the foreground so that all of your CPU time isn't given to the mouse click or the Finder. :P

-bzzzzt-!! try again ! mac os x server shipped over a year ago (not to mention the release of macosxbeta)

MacOS X Server has absolutely nothing to do with MacOS X. It is a totally different operating system. MacOS X Server is based on NeXT, not BSD like MacOS X. MacOS X Public Beta is NOT A RELEASE. RELEASE means that it is a FINAL PRODUCT.

on a side note i wonder how old you are ? 15? 16? your post certainly doesnt read like it was written by a grown up.

On the contrary, your post is the one that reads like something written by a 15 year old. If you want to get particular, the only word that you capitalized correctly is multitasking - something that your precious Macs can't even perform!

FYI, I am 29 years old. My first computer was a TRS-80 Model 1. I got a Color Computer when I was in the 6th grade. Since then, I've personally moved through an Amiga 1000, an Amiga 2000, a Quadra 840av, a 7200/75, a Power Computing PowerCenter Pro and various Intel boxes. I've used Macs almost every day for the last seven years, and I know the operating system inside and out. Believe me when I say that MacOS is shit.

I used to like Macs because at one time, they actually performed better than PCs. Sure, the G4's AltiVec crap is wicked fast, but the OS does not take advantage of it. Advantages are found only in applications written specifically for the use of it. The only thing that it is good for is so that Apple can take benchmarks performed on AltiVec (which have no relevance to 99.9% of the computer's real performance) and use the results in a misleading ad campaign about G4 Macs being "supercomputers." The only thing that I have found that actually uses AltiVec is the Distributed RC5 client. It is fast as hell, but to what gain? When I'm not cracking RC5 keys, my 18 month old PIII/500 Linux box kicks the shit out of the G4/400 that I am writing this on 99% of the time - and for FAR less money.

So, let me say it again: Give me a break! :P

Only on Slashdot can your post be moderated down for stating facts.

You Mac zealots just can't stand the fact that I'm right! I know, I used to be one of you. There is help available to you all!

(Score: -1 Troll)

The link is too long.. go here first then to the link for the new world machines at the end of the page.

Not acting surprised, warning others. See the difference?

Part of the problem is that the "new world" machines can't use BootX and must use yaboot. The bigger part of the problem is that the dual-G4 machines and the cube are different enough so that the existing kernels can't boot - the symptom is messages about missing interrupts during boot from the distribution CD. The soution is to create a small boot partition and to install yaboot and an updated kernel on that partition, then to boot from it, in the same way that you can boot from floppies created by diskimg in DOS.

Full instructions for this process are on the linuxppc.com home page (that's different to linuxppc.org),

Booting on a New World Mac.

This fixes the first problem, having to use a boot partition. The other half of the fix is to use the ibook kernel rather than the default one - a little yaboot.conf editing is needed, but it can be done.

And that is why MacOS X breaks a LinuxPPC install on that kind of machine.

I never realized the seriousness of a brain injury until reading it, that guy seems lucky to be alive and still able to comprehend Linux.

Macworld Magazine has said that LinuxPPC is a faster server than OS X Server. That is not OS X beta, though I imagine that it's still true, based on what I've read. Microkernel vs. native kernel, basically, plus the GUI is always optional with Linux. (He says as he types this in Gnome and Netscape...)

We may not have the pretty interfaces, and definitely don't have Steve Jobs, but so far, we seem to have one thing they don't: speed.

Cheers,

Jason Haas, LinuxPPC Inc.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.

There are Solaris package archives available, such as the Solaris Package Archive and Freeware4Sun, and Freeware for Solaris. And if you really want to get something compiled and running, you can do it. But overall, my Linux software install experience has been much more convenient.

On the other hand, if I were in the high-end-server market rather than the geek market, there would probably be many apps I could run better, more conveniently, or only on Solaris. And I guess that's the market Sun is mostly going after.

Another issue is that Solaris is more bloated (in terms of disk usage) than other free Unixes, in my experience.

I think you've forgotten than Macs *CAN* Run Linux. Like Linux PPC

Yes. I am posting right from a G4 running Linux. www.linuxppc.com

Yup. Has been for quite some time.
Check out LinuxPPC for one distro.

spreer

if it ran Linux I could justify if as having some sort of useful function, even just as a web client.

Silly rabbit, FUD is for kids! It does run LinuxPPC.

We use USB mice on it all the time (since USB is the only external interface on it). It recognises them no problem. Also, while there isn't any real APM yet, you can check the battery level with a Gnome panel app.
-legolas

i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

Seriously, brand names define a great part of our modern western society, just like (say) religion has in the past. Is this a good thing? I dunno... but it is there.

I mean, seriously... how many people will defend Linux over FreeBSD, even though, essentially, they are the same thing? (Especially since some of them haven't even tried FreeBSD, or Plan 9, or BeOS, etc. etc... they are just addicted to the image)

Just my $0.02 CDN. I like Linux.
-legolas

i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

Ever heard of LinuxPPC? If not, I've even seen Linux run on a phreakin iBook.

Yeah, and the more he responds to trolls (this is the first time I've trolled, like ever) the more people see he's an idiot and a karma whore. And since I know you're reading this Nathan, go back to institute or something, or maybe run LinuxPPC on some Macs. Moron.

Look harder. Everything Be needed is contained within the code for Darwin. Sure, they can't actually use the code, but they could certainly find out whatever boot parameters or 'secret stuff' they needed. Obviously the LinuxPPC people (as well as those in the lengthy list I mentioned) aren't having any trouble. In fact, they've received direct assistance from Apple as well.

Be needed an excuse to abandon their PPC userbase, and Apple was convenient. If they had simply said "Sorry, the volume in the Mac market just isn't enough" I wouldn't have blamed them. The foisting of blame on a 3rd party, though, is about as lame as you can get.

Apple obviously has no intent on blocking Be, and why should they? They'd sell boxes either way, including a copy of the MacOS. Much better than having Be leave their platform.

It's like pinning a murder on someone who has absolutely no motive, and basing your opinion on the words of someone who suddenly got a major cash infusion from a 3rd party (Intel). Apple had no reason to kill BeOS/PPC.


- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)

---
Note that the reason Be can't make the BeOS run on PowerMac G3 and G4 machines is not because of their processors but because Apple won't give Be the specs for the proprietary chips on the motherboards of the new machines.
---

Ah yes. Apple has been terrible about releasing the information used in order to port alternative operating systems on their hardware, eh?

Darwin
MkLinux
LinuxPPC
NetBSD
Yellow Dog Linux
Debian
SuSE

Think for yourself. No matter what Be's propaganda says, Apple has nothing to lose from Be porting their OS to their hardware, since they still gain sales either way. Perhaps they don't want to subsidize Be's development, but that's besides the point. Be's argument was questionable from the beginning, and is twice as questionable now that Apple has released Darwin.

Don't get me wrong - I love BeOS, but the company behind it doesn't seem to have any trouble hiding reality from their userbase. They got seduced by Wintel and they know it.

- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)

I'm sick of QuickTime movies I can't view in Linux and RealVideo movies I'd prefer not to download the player for

Apple released the source to their Quicktime Streaming Server as soon as it came out last year as part of the Darwin project. And this year Apple ported Darwin to X86 since no one else would take the source and "do it."

All someone has to do is write the player, I am surprised one is not already there, or at least a mozilla plug-in.

For the interested, the applicable necessary source should be here, and there may be further stuff being worked on with MkLinux or LinuxPPC, where these things were ported to the Mac Linux distros.

If the primary factor in using a mac is the product design, then the OS must be irrelevant. It's not - the Mac is the MacOS, not the hardware.

Take a second look:

http://www.linuxppc.com/about/hardwar e/apple/

He is very lucky, based on the photos of his car on the LinuxPPC site. I had a friend with head trauma, and he the forgetting-things part of recovery is not so unusual.

---
I'd like to check this out, but I'm not going to use anything with the Apple logo on it.
---

Seems like a user issue to me. Apple makes pretty good hardware, albeit for somewhat high prices. Plus, if you ever need it, you are able to run MacOS on it. If that's not a bonus for you that's fine I guess, but I don't imagine you'll get much better of a price on a 3rd party machine simply because they don't sell in volume like Apple does. Why does it matter if it has an Apple logo on it if it's the best supported PPC machine out there?

---
Is there any development here? Or can we just drop the pretense and declare that the Mac -IS- the PPC platform, and that's all it'll ever be
---

Technically right now, there aren't many options. If you're stuck on not buying Apple hardware, you may be interested in this:

http://www.linuxppc.co m/press/index.php3?archive=totalimpact

You'll have to wait a few months at the very least.

- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)

Is it just me, or has this not yet hit their FTP servers? I've been putting off upgrading my installation until they unveiled their next major release, but this still doesn't seem to be up there. The closest thing I can find is the installer for their last release.

That paragraph is just specifically about mac-on-linux, which is an independent project whose gpled software is getting bundled by LinuxPPC and heretofore has not been a normal part of the distribution. It'd be like RedHat bundling Apache and saying "If you have questions about Apache, please direct your questions to the Apache website or to this mailing list we have set up over here." LinuxPPC's support in general is quite decent.

I'm only saying all this because your post was ambiguous as to whether you knew they were just referring to mac-on-linux.

I found it odd that they included www.linuxppc.com, the LinuxPPC company website, but not www.linuxppc.org, the ``official home of the Linux/PPC project.'' I found the latter much more useful when installing LinuxPPC, especially when dealing with all of the Open Firmware setup.

-AC

Yellow Dog Linux and LinuxPPC both have preliminary G4 support, though the G4 isn't "officialy supported" hardware yet. And SMP support for Linux on the PowerMac has been there for quite some time, on Apple's old dual processor 604e machines.

Well, if my family included someone as uber-wealthy as BillG, my first choice would be the mega-cool PowerMac G4 with the Apple Cinema Display loaded with all the goodies including 1.5gigs of memory.


I'd partition the 27 gig drive for Mac OS 9, OS X, and LinuxPPC (maybe a couple of others).


But since I'm a mere mortal and my family isn't as flush as Bill, I'd settle for an iMac DV SE with a half a gig of RAM.


After all... there's no reason to be greedy, right?