Slashdot Mirror

Compare and contrast. What's that extra tracker link about? You'd think they'd go back and do it to old ones, too.

I always thought that MPAA page looked like a joke, but it's the same as the one on LokiTorrent, which has been looking like that for quite a while now.

Who in the MPAA actually verifys the files are illegal and not just some homemade porn or some songs from your friends band that he gave you?

I'm sure someone does. These are court cases being filed, not automated C&D letters. They probably have a small army of paralegals and/or clerks looking over every case prior to filing.

And how do they justify the number ($150,000) per digital file?

It's called 'statutory damages,' and that's the exact amount per title (that is, per copyrighted work, not per file -- as I understand it) codified in U.S. Copyright Law, 17 USC 504.

The MPAA needs more clear guidelines than "If we catch you with a digital file we don't like, it's gonna cost you $150,000"

Like what, exactly? I think they've been pretty clear with their "you can click but you can't hide" thing (see, for example, LokiTorrent). Blather about 'fair use' all you want, but every U.S. court that's looked at it (I'm too lazy to dig out cites at the moment, and I doubt anyone here would ever read them if I did, but look at the courts' opinions in the various Napster, Grokster, and Aimster cases) has stated that 'swapping' whole copies of copyrighted works is not a fair use, period, whatever the liability of the P2P manufacturer may be. E.g., swap a movie or TV show or song in the U.S., it's a copyright violation and exposes you to the potential of a lawsuit. Pretty clear, IMHO. But, then, I do have copyright training.

We start with: "Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world...You've gone too far. Are washing machines next?" (Edwards)

Followed by: "You can't regulate washing machines. You can't rule the world." (Sentelle)

Tag team attack! Now if only we could get one of them to hear the lokitorrent.com case or, better yet, outlaw the RIAA...

Look at it this way - no executive or manager is going to tell their staff to care *less* about customers, are they?

Someone at the movie/record companies came up with the bright idea to sue their customer base. How's that for bad PR? It ruins their company's image in the eyes of the consumers.

I know that downloading the songs/movies isn't legal, but running such a highly visible crackdown campaign doesn't exactly make your company look like a caring company. In fact, crap such as this reinforces the "Big Brother" feel that many people are getting about these companies:

http://www.lokitorrent.com/

They might as well just have wrote "Big Brother is Watching You". What they're doing is legal, but it's a PR nightmare in front of the consumers. Makes them look more like an oppressive government than a cool media company.

But if the man-in-the-middle is forced to change the key every time for every connection, isn't that a weakness in itself?

Sure, a server could probably handle generating hashes constantly for a couple of connections, but what about a horde of zombie computers whose only goal is to exchange hashes?

Is it just me, or does the MPAA seem desperate lately? I mean look at lokitorrent.com--was that even necessary? "You can click but you can't hide"? Anyway, this whole plan seems rather silly because:
A.) It's completely DDOSable
B.) With multiple layers of security it becomes infeasible. (using SSH for "plaintext" exchange)
C.) It disregards the fact that some exchange systems use more than one protocol. For example, BitTorrent files can be downloaded via FTP, HTTP, etc. If the keys are stored there, how can they ever hope to find them? Do ISPs really have an obligation to parse every packet for the damn content companies?

-Grym

As I reported on isoHunt.com and from the sources, Lokitorrent has been shutdown by US court order. The scandal surrounding its owner "taking the community's donations and ran" aside, this sets a bad precedent as Loki should qualify for OSP Safe Harbor under the DMCA. I don't know what exactly was the settlement between Loki and the MPAA, but my question for you is: how many hoops of links (.torrent should be considered a link) you have to jump through the internet, before it's not considered contributory infringement? With the historic example of the Universal vs. Betamax case and the resulting profitable home video business, what are possible business models the MPAA/RIAA can use to harness P2P as the next generation distribution channel? As I run the largest BitTorrent search engine around and was hit by MPAA's letters, this is of some personal concern to me.

What impresses me is how eagerly the MPAA resorts to using fear and totalitarianism to dissuade potential movie downloaders. The MPAA's message is both a threat to the consumer and a warning that they are being watched. Furthermore, the threat is not that the US government will enforce the law and crack-down on the downloaders, but rather the Motion Picture Association itself intends to dispense vigilante justice to protect their business model. The use of the fascist red-white-and-black color scheme is also a nice touch.

With Lokitorrents getting taken down today, and left with a rather tasteless warning, I wonder if the MPAA will start looking to litigate the source of illegal content, like MythTV?

Do you (slashdot readers) think it's a possibility?

What I want to know is if we can all be forced to wear yellow "I" patches pinned to our shirts to identify us as the Illegal Downloaders group.

http://www.lokitorrent.com/

If it was shut down by court order, then why the hell does the MPAA get control of the domain?!? If the courts are enabling the MPAA to propagandize* on sites it deems violate copyright, we are in BIG trouble.

* The page states you cannot download legal material from lokitorrent. I am certain i've seen seeds for ooffice and slack10.1 there.

Let's remember about LokiTorrent's law defense fund. They had the guts to stand for their rights and say no to corporate bullying, and they are doing it for the rest of us too. If they win such lawsuits would have to stop.

Here is a torrent for "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins."

Since suprnova has been down, I've mostly just been using torrentspy. Anyone have an other recommendations for sites? I prefer just having web pages, so I don't have to run a separate client.

Agreed, everybody should see it. It's everything "Farenheit 9/11" should've been, but wasn't. Informed, rational, and non-sensationalist.

It's in 3 parts, Avaliable here (lokitorrent results page for search="nightmares")

This one has the miniseries and series episodes 1-11. http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-details.php?id =99983

However I think you need to sign up (free) with lokitorrent before you can see/download the torrent file.

today an article appeared on Technology Review about the LokiTorrent site fighting back in court after the MPAA sued the owner. $40K in donations from its users (for legal fees) so far.

You may get the Torrent file from here: http://www.northern.ca/zed/zed-oss-0.1.tar.gz.torr ent The tracker is out of date - there are now 2 seeds. (10am EST)http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-details.ph p?id =95133

http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents.php?sort=tfile s.leechers&by=desc&cat=0&incldead=0

No comparison.

And no, there is no way to prove it either way, but the evidence clearly points towards illegitimate use far outweighing legit use.

I think you're being overly kind to Lokitorrent. To quote from their own FAQ, " I am an author of some commercial software that was posted on your site and I want it removed We have a help page just for you here. Note that, by reading this FAQ, you have already agreed to our terms and conditions and sneding DMCA letters to our hosting providers is in direct violation of those terms and will only result in your requests being ignored. So please save yourself the trouble and follow our simple procudures to have you material removed." So it sounds like they're going out of the way to shoot themselves in the foot. Furthermore, you argue that "What you fail to realize here is the copyright owner has a job to do too. They can't expect every soul on this planet to know they own movies x, y & z and studiously make sure they never let anyone do anything with them." However, if you check Lokitorrent's site, you'll see that they've even set up a category labelled "Movies - CAM-TS" for handheld camera recordings and telesync copies of first-run movies that haven't seen a proper DVD release. Arguing that they might not know whether or not the movies posted in this category is disingenuous at best.

What we have here is more than downloading copies of movies or music. If copyright lasted only 20 years, I would honestly be fighting alongside the owners so that they could make a profit from their works. That is, if the artists actually owned the copyrights, rather than the corporations they signed rights over to.

torrent here: http://www.lokitorrent.com/download.php?id=90974

You're correct; I was not using "dervied" in the legal sense. I will choose my words more carefully next time.

"As for criminal copyright violation, that requires willful violation which can be very difficult to prove, especially when the violation may occur before the site owner knows that they may be facilitating a violation."

True. In this case, however, it's pretty obvious that they know what's going on. Check out the torrents page and take a look at the most popular torrents. They'll have to convince people that they had no clue that these might be copyrighted files, and that they lack the technical expertise to take them off the site. They're liable to be laughed out of court.

"Distributing copyrighted materials without a license is not a criminal offense. It is a violation of a civil right that gives rise to a civil cause of action."

It carries both civil and criminal penalties. Here's where one can learn about criminal copyright infringement.

"And, as others have pointed out, these sites are not distributing copyrighted content, but links to information detailing ways to obtain copyrighted content, subtle difference, but nothing worse than what Grokster is doing and that has already been ruled not to be contributory infringement."

The thing about the law is that those subtle differences can make all the difference. "A is kind of like B, so if A is legal/illegal, so must B" should not be assumed to be true. Torrents are derived from the works in question; they contain hashes of the file and other data. They're more than just an HTML link.

Either way, a quick look at their torrent page makes it pretty darn obvious they know what they're doing. Compare their operation to one of the dozens of legitimate sites like legaltorrents.com.

All the sudden they want to stand up for our rights? Why didn't they do so when MS contacted them and demanded they stop tracking MS related torrents?

Any and all Microsoft software and XBOX games are "banned" from the site. Check their upload page.

http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-upload.php

Where can I download torrents from now?
http://www.tvtorrents.tv/
http://www.btefnet.net/
http://www.fulldls.com/
http://www.tv-swarm.com/
http://www.bi-torrent.com/
http://isohunt.com/
http://torrentspy.com/
http://thepiratebay.org/
http://uk-torrents.com/
http://torrentreactor.net/
http://filelist.org/
http://newtorrents.info/
http://demonoid.com/
http://elitetorrents.org/
http://lokitorrent.com/
http://www.lickmytaint.com/bt.html/
http://www.420joint.com/bt/
http://www.torrentsearch.com/
http://www.bitconsole.com/
http://www.uknova.com/
#BT-GM on EFnet

1. Has SuprNova.org really closed?
2. When will SuprNova.org be back?
3. What about the torrents I'm currently downloading/have queued, will they still download?
4. Will joining the IRC channel and spamming about some random nonsense and/or "BRING SUPRNOVA BACK UP" help at all or bring SuprNova.org back?
5. Where can I download torrents from now?
6. Who is the owner of SuprNova.org?
7. Is BitTorrent closing?
8. Does the current situation mean I can break the channel rules in #SuprNova.org and use "!list" and "@find"?
9. You know this HTML code is very sloppy, right?
10. Where do I send additions/corrections?
11. Why has SuprNova.org closed?
12. What's happening with eXeem?
13. How do I turn off the joins/parts/quits?
14. Are there any plans to release the SuprNova.org source code?
15. What does MPAA stand for?

1. Has SuprNova.org really closed? top Yes, it has. 2. When will SuprNova.org be back? top Never as it was. If it eventually does come back up, it won't feature ANY links to torrents at all. 3. What about the torrents I'm currently downloading/have queued, will they still download? top Maybe, probably. However if they don't, it has nothing to do with SuprNova.org's closure. If the tracker for that particular torrent is still online and there are seeds, your file will still download. 4. Will joining the IRC channel and spamming about some random nonsense and/or "BRING SUPRNOVA BACK UP" help at all or bring SuprNova.org back? top NO. So don't. Really, don't. 5. Where can I download torrents from now? top http://www.tvtorrents.tv
http://www.btefnet.net
http://www.fulldls.com
http://www.tv-swarm.com
http://www.bi-torrent.com
http://isohunt.com
http://torrentspy.com
http://thepiratebay.org
http://uk-torrents.com
http://torrentreactor.net
http://filelist.org
http://newtorrents.info
http://demonoid.com
http://elitetorrents.org
http://lokitorrent.com
http://www.lickmytaint.com/bt.html
http://www.420joint.com/bt/
http://www.torrentsearch.com
http://www.bitconsole.com/
http://www.uknova.com/
#BT-GM on EFnet
6. Who is the owner of SuprNova.org? top Sloncek is the owner. I advise you leave off mailing/PMing him for now, he will be flooded with t

1. Has SuprNova.org really closed?
2. When will SuprNova.org be back?
3. What about the torrents I'm currently downloading/have queued, will they still download?
4. Will joining the IRC channel and spamming about some random nonsense and/or "BRING SUPRNOVA BACK UP" help at all or bring SuprNova.org back?
5. Where can I download torrents from now?
6. Who is the owner of SuprNova.org?
7. Is BitTorrent closing?
8. Does the current situation mean I can break the channel rules in #SuprNova.org and use "!list" and "@find"?
9. You know this HTML code is very sloppy, right?
10. Where do I send additions/corrections?
11. Why has SuprNova.org closed?
12. What's happening with eXeem?
13. How do I turn off the joins/parts/quits?
14. Are there any plans to release the SuprNova.org source code?
15. What does MPAA stand for?

1. Has SuprNova.org really closed? top Yes, it has. 2. When will SuprNova.org be back? top Never as it was. If it eventually does come back up, it won't feature ANY links to torrents at all. 3. What about the torrents I'm currently downloading/have queued, will they still download? top Maybe, probably. However if they don't, it has nothing to do with SuprNova.org's closure. If the tracker for that particular torrent is still online and there are seeds, your file will still download. 4. Will joining the IRC channel and spamming about some random nonsense and/or "BRING SUPRNOVA BACK UP" help at all or bring SuprNova.org back? top NO. So don't. Really, don't. 5. Where can I download torrents from now? top http://www.tvtorrents.tv
http://www.btefnet.net
http://www.fulldls.com
http://www.tv-swarm.com
http://www.bi-torrent.com
http://isohunt.com
http://torrentspy.com
http://thepiratebay.org
http://uk-torrents.com
http://torrentreactor.net
http://filelist.org
http://newtorrents.info
http://demonoid.com
http://elitetorrents.org
http://lokitorrent.com
http://www.lickmytaint.com/bt.html
http://www.420joint.com/bt/
http://www.torrentsearch.com
http://www.bitconsole.com/
http://www.uknova.com/
#BT-GM on EFnet 6. Who is the owner of SuprNova.org? top Sloncek is the owner. I advise you leave off mailing/PMing him for now, he will be flooded with them and this is likely to be a very emotional time for him. He has feelings too. G

5. Where can I download torrents from now?

http://www.tvtorrents.tv/
http://www.btefnet.net/
http://www.fulldls.com/
http://www.tv-swarm.com/
http://www.bi-torrent.com/
http://isohunt.com/
http://torrentspy.com/
http://thepiratebay.org/
http://uk-torrents.com/
http://torrentreactor.net/
http://filelist.org/
http://newtorrents.info/
http://demonoid.com/
http://elitetorrents.org/
http://lokitorrent.com/
http://www.lickmytaint.com/bt.html
http://www.420joint.com/bt/
http://www.torrentsearch.com/
http://www.bitconsole.com/
http://www.uknova.com/
#BT-GM on EFnet

So how long before we read about any of the above? Taking your bets right now....

Use www.lokitorrent.com from now on. It's just as good as suprnova.org was.
Also, check out it's sister site: www.mufftorrent.com

LokiTorrent has just upgraded their account interface.

Perhaps rival torrent sites were applying some sort of pressure?

lokitorrent is still down as of Friday morning... ouch.

If you want a solid example of a video file that's legal to share, here is one I'd recommend. I helped make it:

Captain Insaino Man of the University of Regina.

So far only 10 downloads, but those people are not going to get sued for doing that, unless their ISP forbids the use of P2P.

Kerry.vs.Bush.2004.Round.1.Split.Screen.XviD-aAF
Kerry.vs.Bush.2004.Round.2.XviD-aAF
Kerry.vs.Bush.2004.Round.3.Split.Screen.XviD-aAF

Here is a link to an open, no reg needed, no specific limit for torrent life, tracker with the debates: Debates one and two
Debate number 3

There's more, but those are the big sites. They may have it as well.

Feel free to use the names of the files to search elsewhere.

grab the torrent http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-details.php?id =55030&hit=1

Just thought I'd give a heads-up to all you Slashdotters out there who want
Windows Server 2003, Windows XP Home, Windows XP Professional or
Windows XP Media Centre Edition without paying anything for them.
This keygen is also Service Pack 2 proof. (Makes compatible keys)

I bring a keygen before you ;) Please note, this is a fully working keygen
you can check it out before executing it, if you want. You need Azeurus or
some other BitTorrent compatible client to download the file with the torrent.

Torrent is below (this will open in your torrent downloader):
windows_xp_2003_keygen_4in1.exe[www.lokitorrent.co m].torrent

Just thought I'd give a heads-up to all you Slashdotters out there who want
Windows Server 2003, Windows XP Home, Windows XP Professional or
Windows XP Media Centre Edition without paying anything for them.
This keygen is also Service Pack 2 proof. (Makes compatible keys)

I bring a keygen before you ;) Please note, this is a fully working keygen
you can check it out before executing it, if you want. You need Azeurus or
some other BitTorrent compatible client to download the file with the torrent.

Torrent is below (this will open in your torrent downloader):
windows_xp_2003_keygen_4in1.exe[www.lokitorrent.co m].torrent

A video of the circulafoor in action is Here. It's a torrent and we'll need seeders.

correction, Here