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A little over 10 years ago I wrote an article for Lxer about the Snakes and Rubies talk given by David Heinemeier Hansson and Adrian Holovaty (co-creator of Django) at DePaul University in Chicago.

It was quite a talk. Opened up quite a few opportunities for me over the following years. I don't think people even begin to realize what a profound effect efforts like RoR and Django had on the industry. Enterprise level web development was extremely painful with frameworks existing at the time. Getting well made sites that were robust and easily maintainable was a herculean task.

Please check out the article, although many of the links no longer exist. The snakes and rubies website is no longer supported, but the talk can be seen on youtube.

Strangely, David Heinemeier Hansson is from the Netherlands and lives in Chicago, while Adrian Holovaty is from Chicago and lives in the Netherlands.

David

This is one of those put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is situations. Ken Stark and his buddies have refurbished ~1,500 computers, putting Linux on them, and donating them to poor kids in central Texas since 2005 (interview at LXer.com). Now he's battling throat and neck cancer. From his blog at http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2012/08/this-is-where-we-are.html (written by her partner Diane):

Ken's cancer has just recently begun to spread to his right lymph node but his Oncologist has assured us that this is 80 percent curative if he gets the needed surgery in time.

Unfortunately, his 1100 dollar a month SSI disability disqualifies him for Medicaid care and the local county low-income insurance he was receiving. This leaves us with about 2 weeks to either raise enough money for at least the OR for the surgery (we are hopeful of finding a surgeon to do the work pro bono) or raise enough money for the entire procedure. We've spent hours upon hours researching and contacting the links some of you have provided but they are so limited in scope that 90 percent of them are not helpful at all.

We are looking at two weeks, maybe three before the cancer spreads past the point of surgery being an option. After that, we've been told just to make him as comfortable as possible until he passes. I'm not ready to accept that.

Stupid, this Medicare exclusion. More about the guy, by Steven Vaughan-Nichols of ZDnet fame:

+Ken Starks is a Linux and open-source supporter. He also runs a non-profit that's donated thousands of PCs to low-income households. Now, he needs help to fight cancer. For more on what's happening with him see:

http://thomasaknight.com/blog.php?id=71

https://plus.google.com/113169713749496726739/posts/aXdV6DZivhS

There's a donation page at Indiegogo, or you can do it directly from his blog. They have gathered about $7,700 and just reserving the OR costs about $50,000. Pitch in if you can. Anyway, spread the word.

Thanks for reading. I don't even know the guy; I only learned about it through an unsuccessful Firehose submission and decided to do something.

I a few reliable references and one from LXer: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/163839/ It's legit. Making don. now.

Old news. This has been Neweggs policy for a while now...

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/97248/index.html

http://parrot-farm.net/Newegg/Newegg.com%20Horror%20Story.html

I stopped buying computers from them in 2007 as well. (still get the occasinal HD or videocard)...

The list of highly questionable if not outright illegal activities is very long:

You can start here with "A History of Anticompetitive Behavior and Consumer Harm"
http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf

and then move on to a catalog of their attacks on standards:
http://www.grokdoc.net/index.php/Dirty_Tricks_history

and then any of these:
Illegal tying: http://www.ecis.eu/documents/ECISPressStatementonOperaSO1.pdf
Unethical marketing: http://www.nearsoft.com/blog/MS-test.html
Antitrust: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/600488.stm

Or these:
http://slashdot.org/story/00/05/02/158204/Kerberos-PACs-And-Microsofts-Dirty-Tricks
http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/02/microsoft_dirty_tric_1.html
http://techrights.org/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/57261/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/368660.stm
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/06/08/23/1251210/Microsoft-Admonished-by-US-District-Court-Judge
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-tried-to-muck-with-anti-linux-facts/235
http://www.zdnet.com/news/fact-and-fiction-in-the-microsoft-sco-relationship/139743
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/10/23/13219/110
http://lproven.livejournal.com/102128.html
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7654

Try installing XP on one of the newer Toshiba Satellites. It doesn't have drivers either. Does it mean it's a bad OS?

I wouldn't recommend to normal people that they install and setup Debian, but I wouldn't recommend them to install Windows either - both can be a pain in the ass. Getting a pre-installed machine is the way to go, imo.

Nothing new. Just read this:

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/57261/

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html

And spread the news to other newbies!

Wow, just wow.

My thoughts exactly.

Perhaps you need to read about what started it all before you make further posts. Your ignorance about the entire matter is showing.

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14

It seems that this article referred to by the main article speculates incorrectly, saying that:

he explained that this move allows him to spend more time with his family

whereas Alan actually wrote:

I'm not going to be spending more time with the family, gardening[1] or other such wonderous things.

a few lines below.

I had Best Buy tell me I wouldn't see it because they were a Microsoft-only shop. :P

That, I find odd after Best Buy is selling a boxed version of Ubuntu http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2222 http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/105142/index.html

Do you live in the United States of America? Also known as "The United States of Advertising?" (Bill Hicks)

Take the Microsoft Mafia Monopoly Challenge:

1. Walk into one or several of your local stores selling computers
2. Ask them what their computers have preloaded on them for an Operating System
3. If they reply, "Windows", inquire about other choices and note them if available (most won't have alternatives)
4. If they tell you every system is preloaded with Windows, note this and add a Windows logo flag next to the store name
5. Ask about the possibility of refunds for Windows should you purchase a preloaded Windows system and want a refund for the OS. Even if this isn't the way to go about it, ask about the refund anyway to see what they say, express your dismay at the limited choices and the forcing of Windows on desktops. A convicted monopoly should not continue to enjoy the luxury of a monopoly on the desktop
6. Compile this list and post it online somewhere visible, or coodinate your effort with others with sites like BoycottNovell.com and the like, groups of people collecting this information may wish to present it to the appropriate people in American government, to show how strong the Microsoft monopoly remains today, and how little the DOJ has leaned on Microsoft vs. other countries.

If the DOJ will do nothing further to stop Microsoft's continued monopoly in the United States, we must do something.

Microsoft is a convicted monopoly and it should not continue to enjoy the luxury of preloaded systems and mysterious OEM deals

In addition, archive/save the following articles before they disappear:

Microsoft's Dirty OEM-Secret
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/10/23/13219/110

Microsoft Caught Out
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/11/15/124827/52

Microsoft Exec: OEMs Must Not Install Linux Besides Windows
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/27/214930/249

Secret deals MS uses to control PC companies
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/10/secret_deals_ms_uses/

Congress: Clear the Air and Stop Preloads
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/50179/

Microsoft Getting Paid for Patents in Linux?
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=07/02/11/1443211

Microsoft: Open source is too complex
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,39380307,00.htm

Microsoft: "Drug-Dealing Methods"
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7654

Do you live in the United States of America? Also known as "The United States of Advertising?" (Bill Hicks)

Take the Microsoft Mafia Monopoly Challenge:

1. Walk into one or several of your local stores selling computers
2. Ask them what their computers have preloaded on them for an Operating System
3. If they reply, "Windows", inquire about other choices and note them if available (most won't have alternatives)
4. If they tell you every system is preloaded with Windows, note this and add a Windows logo flag next to the store name
5. Ask about the possibility of refunds for Windows should you purchase a preloaded Windows system and want a refund for the OS. Even if this isn't the way to go about it, ask about the refund anyway to see what they say, express your dismay at the limited choices and the forcing of Windows on desktops. A convicted monopoly should not continue to enjoy the luxury of a monopoly on the desktop
6. Compile this list and post it online somewhere visible, or coodinate your effort with others with sites like BoycottNovell.com and the like, groups of people collecting this information may wish to present it to the appropriate people in American government, to show how strong the Microsoft monopoly remains today, and how little the DOJ has leaned on Microsoft vs. other countries.

If the DOJ will do nothing further to stop Microsoft's continued monopoly in the United States, we must do something.

Microsoft is a convicted monopoly and it should not continue to enjoy the luxury of preloaded systems and mysterious OEM deals

In addition, archive/save the following articles before they disappear:

Microsoft's Dirty OEM-Secret
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/10/23/13219/110

Microsoft Caught Out
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/11/15/124827/52

Microsoft Exec: OEMs Must Not Install Linux Besides Windows
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/27/214930/249

Secret deals MS uses to control PC companies
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/10/secret_deals_ms_uses/

Congress: Clear the Air and Stop Preloads
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/50179/

Microsoft Getting Paid for Patents in Linux?
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=07/02/11/1443211

Microsoft: Open source is too complex
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,39380307,00.htm

Microsoft: "Drug-Dealing Methods"
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7654

• It was clearly on lxer about 9 hours before slashdot. It wasn't his intention to submit to slashdot.
  
  This guy sits his girlfriend down at a brand-new Ubuntu installation and asks her to perform some basic tasks.
  It's pretty clear that he didn't submit it to slashdot.

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

HP is rumored to ship a Linux laptop.

Here's a decent list that's a bit dated, but probably helpful http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168

Finally, blow away that Microsoft partition and install it yourself!

1 ) Bell telephone companies.

2) Congress

3) dot-com commerce sites.

4) Internet2

5) "And finally, I'm mad at the public for taking the lazy route and accepting the cheapest form of half-crippled Internet access instead of a high-capacity bidirectional connection that could make us full Internet citizens. Let's not blame the telcos--or at least not stop with them. No one in a position to care has cared enough."

I don't know. I myself can see all those as part of the big problem, of course, but I'd rather just point my finger at guys like this:

Comcast Executive Vice President David Cohen: "I don't think we're restraining the customers from using the service in accordance with the way we're selling [sticking] it to them."

First, some basic questions as to measuring Linux installs. Very hard. No bar-code events in many cases.

The other problem that I have with this guy's article is that it is contrary to recent reports even here on /. about the really stunning popularity of Linux AND Mac sales on Amazon. Also, there is a totally different distribution chain. Macs are sold in stores or on-line. Linux is often distributed through social networks, such as the telecentros in Sao Paulo, Brazil and Extremadura, Spain; or in thin client networks such as at this public middle school in San Francisco; or via free giveaways, such as this guy who gave out 16,000 Linux computers in Berkeley, California; or via the numerous municipal and national migration projects to Linux, such as in Munich, Madrid, and Extremadura Spain; or via Nokia's N880; or the OLPC; or the Asus EEE PC, or the Everex PC.

It is a totally different business model. The fundamental problem with TFA is that it does not understand this fundamental different.

You just described the current problem my wife and I are having. We bought a laptop, it came with Vista.

So with both of us not liking Vista...

I think I see the problem. Here's the answer.

How about the ongoing, msft financed, scox-scam?

The msft/bestbuy rackteering scam has been in the news lately.

astroturfing, i.e. famous letters-from-dead-people campaign
- http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24514/

fake tco studies
- http://os.newsforge.com/print.pl?sid=05/06/23/2027229

fake benchmark studies: the apache scam.

You're welcome.

Does anyone else think that this whole affair is Theo de Raadt's payback for the Broadcom Driver dispute earlier this year? Then, de Raadt vehemently accused the Linux developers of "ganging up" on one guy from his OpenBSD team, who had copied code GPL'ed from the Broadcom Driver project and removed the GPL clause.

See here: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/85224/index.html

Pick one of these, then.

The problem here is people assume they don't exist because they're not being shoved down their throats by computer magazine adverts. However, people still forget that Linux is not yet as profitable for these people - you have to provide extra specialist support, there is zero markup on something people percieve as free, and advertising costs a lot of money.

However, 10 seconds of Google searching using the phrase "Laptop no OS installed" brings up that list and the Dell Ideastorm website as the first two links.

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

Happy now? What will we cry about now?

I call BS. Show me where Linus said anything of the sort. I did, however find a site http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/47182/index.h tml that shows this as utter FUD.

So, the reality is that Linux on the desktop is growing at 20% per annum in the commercial market which lags the personal/free market by a large margin. M$ had to cut its price to $3 just to stay competitive. That is all Linux needs, to be allowed to compete on price and performance. For years, M$ has had a free ride. That is soon stopping. Get used to it. It is doubtful that Linux will KO M$ because some will always want to pay too much or be swayed by sales campaigns , but M$ will fall into the pack with realistic prices and market shares. Remember the glory days of the Soviet Union, when every election resulted in the landslide for a single candidate of the party's choosing? Those days are gone forever in Russia and they will soon be gone for M$.

M$ is a monopoly. Before you can win the war, you have to win the battle of getting into the market. Dell et al are helping but they are not alone, just the biggest and most recent. see LXer pre-installed Linux database

We are talking about a company that outright lied the USA-DOJ, and the EU, A company which has been caught red-handed in numerous scams, and outright theft. A company with a very well documented history of numerous mis-information campaigns.

Msft is funding the scox-scam, stold stacker technology, hires bloggers to post msft propaganda, hires shill journalists like Enderle, files dozens - if not hundreds - of bogus patents, and creates fake think-tanks. Msft is currently running a enormous fud campain against ODF - and ruined the career of Peter Quinn along the way. Msft has been caught secretly sponsoring fake TCO studies, and fake benchmarking studies.

Not to mention tax scams and racketeering.

Msft astroturfing:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24514/

Fake TCO:
http://os.newsforge.com/print.pl?sid=05/06/23/2027 229

Microsoft Tax Scam
http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/mm1297.08.ht ml

Bestbuy rackteering
http://consumerist.com/consumer/lawsuits/best-buy- attorney-admits-to-falsifying-emails-in-racketeeri ng-case-266395.php

I read slashdot and lxer it's a good news source that just contains linux news in a similar style to slashdot..

ODF cannot fully represent Office documents.

The European Commission politely asked Microsoft whether they would please consider joining that OASIS tech committee because it would encourage interoperability.

Here (not primary source): http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/50273/index.h tml

It seems to me that Microsoft is now openly and directly extorting some of their bigger customers that have Linux servers.

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24641/

My personal wish is that someone would have enough guts to call the police on one of their sales reps and set some things in motion...

Here is a general overview of the steps needed to set this up on Debian. Also take note of the responses from Sander.

It is probably more than you are looking for, since it doesn't sound like you want RAID. But that part is easily skipped. The LVM part I would keep, as logical volumes will make managing the virtual machines that much easier.

Actually, a lot of this (the LVM and encryption parts) should be doable from the Debian 4.0 installer.

No-OS, Computers without Operating System (for those who want to install their own Operating System):

  http://www.abestpc.com/laptop.htm Laptops

  http://www.adamant.com/ Desktops Laptops

  http://www.avadirect.com/ Desktops Laptops
  http://www.com4.nl/ Desktops
  http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ Desktops Laptops

  http://www.goldenelectronics.co.uk/ Desktops
  http://www.hypersonic-pc.com/ Desktops Laptops

  http://www.ion-technologies.com/ Laptops
  http://store.madtux.org/ Desktops/

  http://www.laptopchoice.com.au/ Laptops
  http://www.mtechlaptops.com/ Laptops

  http://www.mwave.com/ Laptops
  http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/ Desktops Laptops

  http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ Laptops
  http://www.powernotebooks.com/ Laptops

  http://www.rjtech.com/ Laptops
  http://www.topmicrousa.com/laptops-notebooks.html Laptops

  http://www.unitedmicro.com/ Desktops Laptops
  http://xnbs.com/ Laptops

  http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/ Laptops
  http://www.zepto.com/ Laptops
 
  http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

http://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.php?uid=120&sort= 120&offset=0&dbn=14

http://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.php?uid=108&optio n=&value=&sort=108&offset=0&dbn=12 has a list.

To avoid asking something that's already been answered, here's a synopsis of some of his more recent interviews.

In Guy Kawasaki's Blog, he's asked:
1. How do you make money with an Open Source product?
2. What changes in the Open Source community's attitude have you encountered since you decided "to build a company" around MySQL?
3. Do you compete head to head with Oracle or do you have different customers?
4. What's the biggest MySQL DB?
5. What's the weirdest use of MySQL?
6. What's the most "mission critical" use of MySQL?
7. How does a company controls what's happening to its product when the Open Source community is doing the programming and testing?
8. Is Open Source hindering innovation because it's one thing to debug an existing product but it's another to design a new one?
9. Who fixes the most bugs?
10. If MySQL ceased to exist as an organization, would MySQL the product continue?

In InfoWorld, he's asked:
1. Recently, a number of open-source developers have expressed their unhappiness with the Free Software Foundation (FSF) and the second draft of GPLv3. Are you concerned about a potential forking of the license as some people stick with GPLv2 and others move to GPLv3?
2. How do you decide when MySQL needs to develop new features for the database and when to rely on the open-source community for those innovations?
3. So, is open source then a more forgiving environment than the proprietary software world?
4. What's ahead in 2007 for MySQL?
5. What's the latest news on Falcon, the transactional database engine being developed by database architect Jim Starkey who joined MySQL in February?
6. Is MySQL's current dominance of the open-source database market ever a cause for concern?

In Forbes, he's asked:
1. How is open source software influencing what the bigger tech giants like Oracle, IBM and Microsoft will do in the next year?
2. Do open source firms that sell to large, proprietary software companies risk being dubbed sellouts by the community that's helped them develop their software?
3. How do Oracle's recent open source acquisitions affect MySQL?
4. Is Oracle more of a threat now?
5. What is MySQL's workforce like?
6. MySQL recently took funding from Red Hat, Intel and SAP. What's the strategy here?
7. Is there an IPO for MySQL in the future?

In LXer, he's asked:
1. What are your short and long term goals do you have for the MySQL database system?
2. Realistically where do you think you will pick up quick conversions to enhance your immediate market share from your competitors? Later, how much market share must MySQL commercial versions have to pick up to have long-term viability?
3. If you see your main opportunity is in the replacement of Oracle installations does MySQL match or exceed the forte of Oracle in the transaction per second processing? Are you now aimed at the lower end of the Oracle market installations? What will it take to be really competitive with Oracle at the upper end of the scale?
4. If you see your natural market as the range SQL Server is now aimed at, small medium business and departmental installations, can you match their ease of administration? If not what is the salient argument for such companies to install MySQL over the competition? Since you are primarily aimed at the market willing to pay for your enhancements and support, do you see any advantage in offering a MySQL product that will undercut MySQL server from below?
5. What trade offs have had to be made to make MySQL 5.0 commercial version more feature rich and robust?
6. Where do you see competition arising from for pursuing the paths to th

For your point #2 you can check this list of manufacturers that sell pc's with Linux pre-installed and with no os installed.

I was speaking on the general state of windows computing. Currently under XP this can happen if you're not careful what you check. I had someone ask me about this just yesterday. MS isn't known for admitting they screwed up and backtracking on something like that. If they have, great, but the fact of the matter is they already went down that road. Its just proof that they have no problem testing the waters with highly restrictive DRM.

I'll check that out next time I boot my XP to play The Sims 2 (Currently gives me some minor graphical glitches in Vista RC2 that I haven't bothered investigating). If you would be so gracious as to provide proof positive that Microsoft did make copy protection the default for MP3s in any iteration of Windows Media Player that made it to XP, please let me know since I'm going to be so gracious as to provide links to you that you requested.

and I doubt they form 51% or more of MS customer base.

So we only care about the majority of users with something that's entirely optional. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to provide all these tools for creating your own music, video, whatever with tools that come with Vista, and instead of making it easy on content creators large or small, we decide to instead tell them that they need to go elsewhere for that when it's trivial to implement? That makes no business sense.

As for your education, here you go oh lazy one:

on DRM in KPDF

Re: DRM-crippled Banshee has no copyleft protection

Torvalds: "DRM is Perfectly OK with Linux

Linux and DRM - succeeding where MS failed?

The RIAA - Hollywood - DRM - Linux Suicide Pact

GStreamer to support DRM

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

For most people, it's "I want everything to work the second I plug it, and I want to be able to connect to the tubes to get intarweb".

Hell, I prefer to spend 8 hours trying to get a decent OS running...

couldn't hunt down a preinstalled Linux box easily

Here's the LIST.
Companies selling preinstalled Linux Desktops and Laptops

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

Ah it's Monday and I can't be bothered to sit and discuss each of your points. But one thing I will say...

Linux columnists like to talk about how Linux is ready for the desktop, but it's just not.

Regardless of what your experience has been, regardless of what columnists say the fact is I run Ubuntu on three computers in my house, for me, my wife and my kids. And my mother uses it too.

And out of those four machines I am the only user who knows "what a Linux is". The most insightful comment I got from my clueless but happy Linux users was from my daughter... "Oooh, it looks kind of like Aunt Mysha's Mac!".

"Ready for the desktop" is a relative statement anyway, but me, I think Ubuntu is ready. More telling still; so does my mom. :-)

Thanks for the link to digg, asshole.

Is it really too fucking hard to link to the actual site you're talking about?

The actual link For everyone who'd like to see the list directly.

there's a very important assumption wrapped up in the above sentence that doesn't apply to the F/OSS community. There's no single point of failure in the system.

There's always a choke point. The key is in finding it. Microsoft has always proved very resourceful in finding the chokepoint in its competitors. Be it monetary, technological, or legal, they find a way. Patents seem like the most likely avenue, because they could completely shut down the project. (Free or no.) And even without patents, the mere threat of them will prevent most people from adopting the technology on the critical path. Which means that Microsoft can take a "die on the vine" approach to killing the project.

When you look at it, it's shocking how well Microsoft's attacks against Open Source and Linux have faired. Even if we technologists don't buy it, enough of the public buys into their FUD to make a lot of problems for the industry. Now that was an unfocused attack. Imagine if 100% of Microsoft's resources were devoted to killing a single OSS project!

For an example of Microsoft's FUD in action, check out this argument (cache) that is happening between The Heartland institute and LXer. You should be able to spot a gaping hole in his logic within the first paragraph. Yet people really believe this stuff! Now imagine if Microsoft followed up a FUD campaign with strong new product annoucements that "Give you all the freedom of OSS, but with none of the communism." Visions of the Visi-On debacle are already lighting up in the back of my head...

Exactly what software breaks the Windows kernel? Are you talking about drivers? If so then Linux damn well does have the same problem. I've had bad drivers screw it up on the order of thousands of times.

Okay, back to fudd land. Exactly what software screws up the Windows kernel these days? Or do you mean to say software that makes it difficult for the user to use his/her computer? Plenty of software out there can cause the same problem with linux. That is unless you know how to get around them, every OS gives you the tools to do it ;-)

Being an OEM I can state that Microsoft does not tell OEM to put everything on a system partition. OEMs do this to save money on support later since people invariably lose their install media. They always have the option for the media and they may even charge for it but this is not the fault of Microsoft and even if they did it has nothing to do with the OS being backwards.

Thank you for having enough insight to say "Wow, people aren't using this because it's somewhat difficult to use" and actually think about a solution, rather that bitching about the problem.

Thank you for voicing your agreement in public. It essential that as many people as possible knows this, to encourage anybody to work towards this goal. It's critical to start working now since development always takes its time.

Don't miss understand me, I'm not saying my way is the sole solution I only say I don't know any other and AFAIK nobody else does. I know the application's look&feel is the Achilles heel of the Linux desktop and much is lost because of this. So the minimum required action is the LXer article (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) is discussed.

Even if you are only one of the user of Linux you could change the future of the Linux desktop. Just write to your friends and colleagues, to Slashdot, to your favorite Linux users group, to the developers of your favorite applications or who else you can think of. Only when wyoGuide gets known will people look at it, only when it's looked at people will see its advantages and its necessity. Only then will people start working towards its goal.

Sorry if this is redundant or feels like a flame, it's just I am glad that the parent was smart enough to point this out and felt like I needed to rally to him. Many Slashdot readers are jaded by the support that the anti-MS crowd gets here and they neglect to see things from a fairly obvious point of view, and it's very annoying to the rest of us.

Rallying is sometimes necessary, especially if it's about a seeming obvious point of view. It's huge work to create a usable Linux desktop and much effort is needed. It needs the help of many users who do all the advertisement and encouragement, many developers who spend their spare time, companies who support this effort. It's not an easy task and needs some time but it's doable.

O. Wyss

I think the users just have to have the patience to go out there and find the multimedia programs.

Don't you wonder when someone rates the Linux desktop not fit for the switch because he could not find or work with the found applications? Isn't this article a clear sign which part of the Linux desktop needs our most attention? It's the application which counts most. Go and read this article at LXer.com http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml.

O. Wyss