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Or better yet fork/maintain Gnome 2, if you wish to.

I'm speaking as KDE user.

It shows.

I run Mate which is a clone of the more sensible GNOME 2. Mate is based on the GTK+ user interface toolkit.

Unfortunately, development of the GTK+ toolkit was also taken over by the same idiots that "develop" GNOME 3.
They have done things such as breaking the API on minor version number revisions, and added requirements to those of GNOME 3.
They changed the tried and true behaviour of scrollbars and sliders to not paging when you click in the trough and which stops if you move the knob too slowly.
They removed the way that submenus stay open longer if you move the mouse pointer towards it.
Text has smooth - but delayed - scrolling that can't be sped up to instantaneous.
I thought about writing a theme engine that patched the behaviour (which I did in the GTK+ 1.2 days) but they "deprecated" theme engines, so now I would have to fork the entire toolkit if I want to fix it.

Please use and support MATE:

http://mate-desktop.org/

I've been a Debian user for a long time but for my wife's laptop or Linux installs on friends machines I almost always turn to Mint.

They're still going to support Upstart & Systemd. The LMDE release was always a rolling release locked to Debian Testing.

They've continued GNOME2 in MATE DE along with the GNOME3 fork Cinnamon.

I've personally transitioned to FreeBSD for my desktop & server needs but if a friend wants to get into Linux with a decent GUI I point them to Mint. Ubuntu has gone full "Windows 8.1" in trying to appease the lowest common denominator when most people just want a desktop they recognize.

Install MATE desktop ( http://mate-desktop.org/ ), if you want the full GNOME2 style, or just the MATE apps if you like GNOME shell, but want a full featured file browser (caja), pdf viewer (atril), text editor (pluma) etc.

If they want MATE, they know where to find it.

Gnome should have forked their own product and renamed everything so that Gnome 3 and Gnome 2 could be installed side by side.

That's pretty much what DID happen. You can even run MATE from within Gnome 3.

http://mate-desktop.org/

If you liked Gnome 2, you should seriously check out Mate http://mate-desktop.org/. It's a port of Gnome 2, and works great.

Hmmm.... let me think...

oh yes, donate to Gnome!

http://mate-desktop.org/donate... :-)

MATE is being developed, and has ome support from some distros. Even OpenSUSE is offering a MATE package (they took only TWO FSCKING YEARS to do so, but at least they did).

You can donate here - but perhaps we should wait their statement about how the money will be spent. Just in case. :-)

Actually, that's not it. You fork the code from a point BEFORE it goes to hell.

I don't think they're doing a good job but I'll be glad to donate to GNOME 2.

Here you go:

http://mate-desktop.org/donate...

Donate

There is a Gnome 2 foundation -- it's called MATE. Knock yourself out: http://mate-desktop.org/

Here ya go: http://mate-desktop.org/donate...

Old, unmaintained legacy versions may not have security fixes for reported problems. And if well in open source software may have maintainers for old versions if enough liked them, for companies may not be profitable to keep updating old versions (unless the support contract/terms of service forces them).

Or MATE for a more GNOME 2.xx look:

sudo add-apt-repository "deb http://packages.mate-desktop.o... precise main"
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get --yes --quiet --allow-unauthenticated install mate-archive-keyring
sudo apt-get update
# this installs base packages
sudo apt-get install mate-core
# this installs more packages
sudo apt-get install mate-desktop-environment

s/precise/saucy/g if you're running 13.10 instead of 12.04.

http://mate-desktop.org/

To me, this is the greatest desktop project since the fading of Gnome 2. If fact this how the Gnome foundation should have managed the desktop project: continue the Gnome 2 support e improvement until the experimental Gnome 3 project is polished in a way that Gnome 2 users start using it by there own choice. The failed by cutting the life of Gnome 2 way too early and trowing a unfinished, buggy and incomplete Gnome 3 kludge.

GNOME 3 is essentially unusable, I want a Desktop Environment that helps rather than hinders me. GNOME 3 tries to dictate how I do things, and lacks the customisability of Mate. Also a GNOME 3 desktop is cluttered - my normal desktop is blank with a bland background, until I place the windows I want in it, and my 2 panels don't appear unless I need them. GNOME 3 is too much in your face.

I had fond memories of KDE from the now distant past, but I found that too had been nobbled. Mate has about the right feel, though of course it could be better.

It is a pity that the people who prefer fashion over functionality don't stick to Apple (perhaps I'm being a tad over harsh?)!

I spend over 10 hours a day in front of my screen. I like a Desktop Environment like http://mate-desktop.org/ that allows me to get on with things, rather than get in the way.

The original article seems to be Slashdotted (hey, can we still do that?!), but from the MATE blog:

http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2013-11-08-debian-mate-packaging-team/

"The MATE Team is very happy to say hello to the new Debian MATE Packaging Team, that is working hard to get MATE included into the next release of Debian...First packages are already in the repositories and there are many others in ftp-master NEW queue."

which links to:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=708385#31

"The plan is to provide MATE inside the Debian archive before the end of the year (if the FTP master time will find enough time to review our uploads)."

Of course if you don't mind using the upstream repository, you can install it right now:

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

The original article seems to be Slashdotted (hey, can we still do that?!), but from the MATE blog:

http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2013-11-08-debian-mate-packaging-team/

"The MATE Team is very happy to say hello to the new Debian MATE Packaging Team, that is working hard to get MATE included into the next release of Debian...First packages are already in the repositories and there are many others in ftp-master NEW queue."

which links to:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=708385#31

"The plan is to provide MATE inside the Debian archive before the end of the year (if the FTP master time will find enough time to review our uploads)."

Of course if you don't mind using the upstream repository, you can install it right now:

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

I don't understand who still cares about those "GNOME devs decide to screw up foo". There is a good remedy to the abomination that GNOME has become.

MATE

They're breaking Gnome, not Linux. The nice thing about Linux is that you can configure everything exactly how you want it. Maybe try MATE?

get your helpful gnome back ;)

  http://mate-desktop.org/

I know this will invite a flame or three, but the proper response here is Mate.

Mate http://mate-desktop.org/about/
"MATE is a fork of GNOME 2.
It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop to Linux users using traditional metaphors."

Cinnamon (although same as Gnome 3 with extensions) http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
"Traditional layout, advanced features, easy to use, powerful, flexible."

Can you not see the difference. The real question is why use Mate.

I know this will invite a flame or three, but the proper response here is Mate.

Mate http://mate-desktop.org/about/
"MATE is a fork of GNOME 2.
It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop to Linux users using traditional metaphors."

Cinnamon (although same as Gnome 3 with extensions) http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
"Traditional layout, advanced features, easy to use, powerful, flexible."

Can you not see the difference. The real question is why use Mate.

I know this will invite a flame or three, but the proper response here is Mate.

An easy fix: apt-get install xfce4. For more thorough fix:
echo "deb http://repo.mate-desktop.org/debian wheezy main" >>/etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get install mate-desktop-environment

And for the love of Yog-Sothoth, remember to clean up the crap Gnome3 pulled in if you inadvertently installed it. Some stuff just wastes disk, some wastes memory, some (like avahi) is a security hole, some (network-manager) is just a wholesale sabotage machine.

Gnome3 Classic Mode is a bad joke: it superficially matches the appearance of Gnome2, while retaining but a small fraction of its functionality.

Hmm...

For Spreadsheets, have you had a look at:
        http://www.libreoffice.org/features/calc
and
        http://projects.gnome.org/gnumeric

For a Desktop Environment:
        http://mate-desktop.org/

When I have to use a Microsoft O/S, I feel I'm flying blind with one hand tied behind my back with the undercarriage still deployed. Microsoft O/S's are slow, cumbersome, lacking in customisability, and inherently insecure - I first started using a box with a Microsoft O/S back in the early days of MS-DOS, and I've seen Microsoft Windows 8.

Linux is the most widely used O/S on embedded devices and servers. It is also growing on the desktop.

In our household we have:
2 Linux desktops
2 Linux laptops
1 Linux phone (Android 4.2)
1 Linux gaming console (wii)
1 iPhone
1 Apple Mac desktop
(Note absence Microsoft O/S, and I suspect we will not get another Mac!)

Metro, is a good reason to switch to Linux.

Would it, in principle, be possible to to provide cinnamon or mate as packages for other distributions, e.g. Ubuntu?

Sure, both Mate and Cinnamon provide these packages (right now I'm running Mate 1.6 on Ubuntu 12.04 and it works very well):

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61

However, you won't them in the official Ubuntu repository. I suspect Mate at least will make it into Universe after Debian adopts it, which now looks like it's going to happen:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=658783

Or Debian with the mate repositories in your sources.list, as per http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

MATE http://mate-desktop.org/

And if you run MATE, you basically still have GNOME 2.32.

My Desktop Path:

GNOME 2 ==> xfce ==> mate

http://mate-desktop.org/

Mate for me. Self flagellation is just not my thing.

http://mate-desktop.org/

That all you got?

Yes, I know. MATE and Cinnamon aren't in the official repositories yet, but that's only a matter of getting a bigger hammer.

To be fair, there is a big difference between having a desktop environment and window manager which run on a system and having all of its features fully integrated and supported. I can quite happily run FVWM on my desktop, but things start getting awkward when I run an application which expects to find a dock or notification area from Gnome.

http://mate-desktop.org/

Gnome should have learned how to play chess. They are out of moves.

Maybe GNOME folks should indeed remove the classic mode and focus on whatever their goal is rather than trying to keep an unsupported classic mode, ending up with a Jekyll and Hide type of DE.

After all, the GNOME 2 fork MATE already provides an almost flawless GNOME 2 experience.

You might be interested in this GNOME 2 fork

What is wrong with Gnome2?
Why not just keep using it?

No, the answer is not that it's abandoned, because it is not.
It just changed the name: http://mate-desktop.org/

>

KDE is one of the only environments left that doesn't treat its users like morons. It isn't a perfect piece of software, but it's one of the only remaining things that isn't after the "dumb everything down!!" mantra. The others: Windows, Gnome, Unity, OSX, IOS, Android, all seem to be chasing the other roads.

For that reason alone, I've found it worth giving them money, which you can do here: http://www.kde.org/community/donations/ - I've given them about euros 100 over the last year.

FWIW two others that don't treat users like morons are Cinnamon and MATE. I prefer Cinnamon, but if you're running from Gnome either would probably be an easier adjustment than KDE. I just wanted to point out donation options for people who'd like to keep a Gnome 2-like UI.

>

KDE is one of the only environments left that doesn't treat its users like morons. It isn't a perfect piece of software, but it's one of the only remaining things that isn't after the "dumb everything down!!" mantra. The others: Windows, Gnome, Unity, OSX, IOS, Android, all seem to be chasing the other roads.

For that reason alone, I've found it worth giving them money, which you can do here: http://www.kde.org/community/donations/ - I've given them about euros 100 over the last year.

FWIW two others that don't treat users like morons are Cinnamon and MATE. I prefer Cinnamon, but if you're running from Gnome either would probably be an easier adjustment than KDE. I just wanted to point out donation options for people who'd like to keep a Gnome 2-like UI.

It still sucks. Stick with MATE.

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
sudo apt-get install gnome-shell

Or if you fancy something different:
sudo add-apt-repository "deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/ubuntu precise main"
sudo apt-get install mate-desktop-environment

Or...
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable
sudo apt-get install cinnamon

Honestly, it's not like you didn't have plenty of options besides "nuke it from orbit". The Kubuntu and Xubuntu communities in particular are pretty large and friendly.

Not that I'm saying you shouldn't vote with your feet if you feel strongly, and there's certainly nothing wrong with Fedora. But seriously, with the work involved in switching "your whole family" to a new OS, I might have considered something less extreme for the sake of a desktop environment.

There is also MATE which is a fork of GNOME2 that looks great.

LMDE is actually the first linux desktop that I've used for an extended period of time because I can stand it. (And it brought me over from OS X when I upgraded that laptop). I never liked how Ubuntu locked to releases and much preferred the Debian rolling release. I've run testing on my servers for years but there had never been a desktop that I really liked until MATE or Cinnamon came along.

My girlfriend is on Ubuntu because "I hate windows and I heard about Ubuntu" but is getting fed up with "New release. Guess what we MOVED EVERYTHING AGAIN!". I don't understand how people use Unity. I have 22 windows open right now all doing something and like switching between them without pretending I'm on a tablet.

Props to the Linux Mint guys. The ones that may actually push Linux onto the desktop.

Actually, Gnome 2 hasn't been abandoned. It's still alive and well as MATE

Fortunately, FOSS provides a solution as well, called forking. For example, MATE is a fork from GNOME 2.0 and will continue development the way GNOME SHOULD have.

Unlike proprietary software where the users may find themselves at the mercy of a chair throwing nut case, nobody can actually force the users to follow them down the rabbit hole.

As for usability groups, they must have an uncanny knack for never including people who think the way I do in their focus groups because I find FOSS much easier to use in most cases.

But if neither MATE nor GNOME is your cup of tea, there's also KDE, XFCE, FVWM, and a great many others you can try. This isn't some sort of one size fits none dictatorship, you have choices.

Both Fedora and openSUSE are doing a great job at offering Gnome 3 Shell experience and the arrival of Ubuntu GNOME Remix will give the project the audience it needed.

Since when such blatant personal views which largerly border on wishful thinking are accepted as information on /.? Sorry to ruin it for the submitter but on Distrowatch, neither Fedora nor OpenSuse made any progress with the "pure" GNOME 3 experience. On the contrary, the two top distros, Mint and Mageia focus on traditional desktop metaphors without trying to force dumbed down tablet UIs down users' throats. Besides, Fedora is going to include MATE, the fork of GNOME 2.

Sure, GNOME 3 needs an audience -- as does Ubuntu. But I really don't see the Unity disaster being fixed with the GNOME 3 debacle.

...but I would also go for MateBuntu.

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

http://mate-desktop.org/

I feel like gnome 3 finally hit the nail on the head for what users want and need

Some users. Not, for example, me.

And even if you are correct, it's a happy accident. The GNOME 3 team didn't do a lot of user research; for example, the removal of the minimize button happened because one developer thought about it for a while and decided that nobody really needs a minimize button. Users were not asked, they were told. Consider this quote:

In the end, I think with GNOME 3 we need to emphasize design coherency and slickness - what is different and better, and that actually is more important than being 100% sure we perfectly meet everybody's workflow.

That's stunning... "design coherency and slickness" is more important than a good workflow!

A while back, Sun Microsystems paid for a bunch of usability research on GNOME and the results were incorporated into GNOME 2.x. It might not be a coincidence that many users (like me) have a strong preference for the way GNOME 2.x works.

GNOME 3 is, from all I have heard, well-architected. The plumbing is better than the legacy plumbing inside GNOME 2. When Cinnamon gets all the little details right, it may become the desktop environment of the future. For now, I'm using MATE.

steveha