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There's an mmo called neocron which is very cyberpunk (cyberspace hacking, remote control drones, nasty toxic dark future):

http://www.neocron.com/

It's getting a bit long in the tooth tho.

There's also the dystopia mod for hl2.

http://ng.neocron.com/

http://planetside.station.sony.com/

http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/

Not strictly speaking FFO. Huxley might offer that.

A mix of cyberpunk and science fiction. Sure it's a low population game but it's the best gun combat there is. Collision objects work well, you don't shoot people through walls unless your weapon has splash damage. Your enemies generally know proper PVP (by enemies I mean players) so they know how to duck, get under cover, even move out of your firing range. There aren't a whole lot of kills from "long range" as theres only a handful of sniper type weapons and NO weapons in the game are instant one hitters, you always have a chance to notice you are taking damage and react.

Plus they included two "casting" classes one offensive and one defensive (think Shadowrun style). Toss in kick ass vehicles, even melee combat in the form of swords, knives, blunt objects etc And it works. Hell the game is actually cheaper to play than most others, I think it's like $11 a month whereas WoW is what, $15+ after tax? All the game needs is people to play it. It's even got longevity past "kill other players" since the world map has dozens if not hundred+ "outposts" that your clan/guild can take control of and defend/attack (kind of like in Planetside).

Just thought I'd point out one good scifi style MMORPG that did well, with guns and with a non fantasy setting.

The MMO you just described is called Neocron.

The guy's somewhat right- the projects that he lists are quite impressive in that they promise a hell of a lot. However, in my experience with European developers, even if they have cool features or awesome graphics, their game will smack you down somewhere.

X3 Reunion, for example, suffers from high system requirements and it lacks the features that would make its innovative features great (e.g., you can't relocate or dismantle a station after you've built it). Moreover, the game universe makes freeform play almost too overwhelming to enjoy.

Neocron was plagued by seemingly endless bugs that ruined any coolness that any new patch would add.

I will say that some of the coolest games I've played have come out of Europe (e.g., Uplink), but they've had their fair share of duds (e.g., Iron Storm).

I've gotta hand it to them, it's a pretty good idea to stick ads in the game.

I used to play Neocron back in 2003; cyberpunk atmosphere, and as a result, all sorts of fake ads for companies, etc inside the game, just for atmosphere. Why not advertise real things?

Of course, if their implementation is more along the lines of, every 30 seconds, an audio message pops up saying "Buy xxx product!", that's a little far. Same for if they spam your account or sign your CC up for free subscriptions to garbage.

If they got sponsored by Smith & Wesson though, it'd be cool to have S&W brand weapons in the game.

I remember hearing a lot about this up and coming genre when Neocron was in beta, but then it never really materialized, at least in the states. http://ng.neocron.com/ if you're interested.

I recently tried neocron 2 which was a free download, but after a month of play required you to pay, but I found the game too boring, and not as fun as some of the other fantasy-style genres I've been used to playing like EQ, EQ2, DAOC and WOW. I thought the cyberpunk genre would have interested me but it wasn't nearly as fun as I thought. Maybe it was just that game though.

But fembots has a point - I think if more game companies realized the HUGE monthly profit games like WOW or EQ/EQ2 are bringing in, I think we'd have cheaper games, I dunno. But fembots was also correct: it's a risk.

Looks an awful lot like Neocron to me. Looks like Face of Mankind is really "cutting edge".

http://www.neocron.com/ First Person MMORPG, plays like a shooter, 10 day free trial, no fluffy bunnies or gay elves. Check it out its worth it.

Try this one: http://www.neocron.com/ No Elves there, good ole Cyperpunk atmo, offers free trial.

Theres Planetside(more FPS than RPG) and Neocron(More RPG than FPS) that I've seen.

And Twilight War is on the horizon.

Neocron is another example of the FPS MMORPG that was pretty good at bringing the genres together. The only issue was that I didn't play at the prime times of the server I was on so socializing was a bit tough.

The MMORPG Neocron makes use of stealth ability for the Spy character class, who can stealth for short periods of time once they achieve a certain level. It does make the game interesting when you have to take into account that you might not be alone when you think you are. There are ways to combat stealthed players, such as AoE weapons and the Psi Monks have a spell that can cancel stealth - the classes really are designed to compliment each other.

It's a great game and they are about to launch a major update (check out the video) or you can get a demo version or download the full game for a full trial.

The MMORPG Neocron makes use of stealth ability for the Spy character class, who can stealth for short periods of time once they achieve a certain level. It does make the game interesting when you have to take into account that you might not be alone when you think you are. There are ways to combat stealthed players, such as AoE weapons and the Psi Monks have a spell that can cancel stealth - the classes really are designed to compliment each other.

It's a great game and they are about to launch a major update (check out the video) or you can get a demo version or download the full game for a full trial.

The MMORPG Neocron makes use of stealth ability for the Spy character class, who can stealth for short periods of time once they achieve a certain level. It does make the game interesting when you have to take into account that you might not be alone when you think you are. There are ways to combat stealthed players, such as AoE weapons and the Psi Monks have a spell that can cancel stealth - the classes really are designed to compliment each other.

It's a great game and they are about to launch a major update (check out the video) or you can get a demo version or download the full game for a full trial.

Neocron is very dexterity and skill based - especially the Player vs Player aspect.

Having a Windows install just for gaming. I swear, if it wasn't for Neocron and other games not working properly in WineX, I'd never touch my Win2K install with a bargepole!

what makes open MMORPG's interesting is the fact that emergent behaviour and gameplay will always be unpredictable.

I'm sure that many developers have designed an MMORPG only to discover after a while that players do things they never ever intended.

A successful developer will observe this behaviour and work with it rather than against it.

Ultimately it's the players that pay developer's wages - keeping them interested and happy is what it's all about. Preventing PvP play for example will cause many people who enjoy that sort of play to leave. From what I see many MMORPG developers try to keep people happy by having "no PvP" zones. The developers of Neocron have implemented this, however they received that many requests for no "safe" areas that they provide an entirely seperate server where there are no safe areas.

All the content in the world doesn't matter when a game needs a credit card to play.

I know this isn't a solution to your problem necessarily, but Neocron got my custom because I could pay with a debit card (I don' t have, and can't get, a credit card). Plus it's a fairly solid, top-notch cyberpunk MMORPG experience, which makes a change from swords-and-sourcery dungeon-bashing.

(that being said, the old Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay geek in me can't wait for the Warhammer MMORPG...)

Disappointing that Neocron isn't mentioned.

Get a free 10 day trial here

"After your registration is complete, you will receive an email which contains the download location (URL) of the full Neocron client. If you don't want to download the client (a 1.3 GB download) from that page, then you may prefer ordering Neocron on 2 CD-ROMs for only 9.99 USD. You may also simply copy the full game from a friend."

Disappointing that Neocron isn't mentioned.

Get a free 10 day trial here

"After your registration is complete, you will receive an email which contains the download location (URL) of the full Neocron client. If you don't want to download the client (a 1.3 GB download) from that page, then you may prefer ordering Neocron on 2 CD-ROMs for only 9.99 USD. You may also simply copy the full game from a friend."

how is neocron otherwise nowadays? i tried it in the beta for a short while, and found it, eh, rather empty back then except the cellar where everyone was killing rats, and i couldn't find the way out of the 'city'(dunno if one existed then even).. so, is there finally something worthwhile to do?

It's pretty good - I've been playing it since November 02 and I'm still not bored. What I particularly like about it is that because its done by an independent company there is a lot of stuff in there that you just wouldnt see elsewhere - strippers for example.They have a free 10 day trial at the moment so why not check it out?

If you want to see some other stuff try the Nema magazine:

Nema Issue 3

I play on server Pluto as Skinfitz.

*hides to escape hoards of /. PK'ers*

how is neocron otherwise nowadays? i tried it in the beta for a short while, and found it, eh, rather empty back then except the cellar where everyone was killing rats, and i couldn't find the way out of the 'city'(dunno if one existed then even).. so, is there finally something worthwhile to do?

It's pretty good - I've been playing it since November 02 and I'm still not bored. What I particularly like about it is that because its done by an independent company there is a lot of stuff in there that you just wouldnt see elsewhere - strippers for example.They have a free 10 day trial at the moment so why not check it out?

If you want to see some other stuff try the Nema magazine:

Nema Issue 3

I play on server Pluto as Skinfitz.

*hides to escape hoards of /. PK'ers*

There has been a thread on the Neocron Forums about this. It surprises me that many people still have boxes that work - one guy today was bragging that he doesnt patch or use any form of firewall or anti virus on XP for 2 years and has had no problems.

Talk about lucky!

I have to confess that I am both a a pen-an-paper role player and an avid computer game player. I have noticed this problem is mainly to do with, as people have already said, how you let people go about the tasks they are presented with and also what tasks they have to do. I have been involved with Neocron since it ending its open beta stage. There are elements in Neocron which could allow for more traditional GM (Games Master) situations as there supposed to be players out there which can effect the world by creating and removing problems. The problem is that the majority of on-lien gamers want a more in-depth UT2003 or even just a simply blaster like Quake.

Not many people are ardent enough gamers that they would be willing to put up with those who didn't want to role-play when they did. It is a lot easier not to role-play than to stay in character. I think that there should be be games which take more traditional role-playing elements such as GM's, open ended situation and missions and the like. Dues Ex 2 is promising to maybe such a game, although this is of course not an MMORPG by any means but it does show that FPS lovers and RPG lovers can find a game which they can both play.

I suppose in the long run it's a bit of a pipe dream to have a proper RPG based MMORPG or is it? I guess as always it should be the case of if see something you want done, do it. I think it'll be cool if proper role-players took even GURPS system and using the mod-happy Half Life 2 engine made a free, open ended RPG world. It could work... maybe... ok probably not. I can dream though. ;-)

...here in this thread that was started by someone with access to the SWG beta-boards. He copied a post that gives well-argumented criticism about the bugs but more importantly, about the gameplay.
I was interested in a MMORPG called Neocron some time ago, but after playing the beta I found that it wasn't really worth the monthly fee. The game was plagued by nerfing sprees, exploits and the fact that there were skills or subskills that were so undocumented that nobody knew what they were for, not even the developers. I'm sure that the MMORPG genre needs a truly refreshing group of developers before it will catch my attention again.
So even though I'm quite the Star-Wars fan, I'll probably never play a Star-Wars MMORPG, although the SW universe is such a good base for an excellent (MMO)RPG.

In the superb MMORPG Neocron I'm, perhaps rather unsurprisingly, "Skinfitz". I like consistency for things like nicks and it's always interesting when you get people asking "hey are you the same xxx from yyy?".

I think my fav nicknames from Neocron at the moment are there is a guy called "anima" and a female char called "anima's sex toy". (Mind you I am in a clan with someone called "clitoris" and someone else called "Fur lined mixing bowl" but there you go.)

Actually I got mentioned in the Neocron monthly magazine (NEMA) last month... Not that I'm bragging or anything...

The tax only relates to companies outside the EU who up until now were using the system to bypass paying taxes and screwing the companies who are in the EU.

The fact that SOE is drawing attention to the fact isn't because the EU is evil, but that SOE are charging a silly price for the service.

Take Neocron for example. A german game which is a heck of a lot cheaper then SW:G, and had (unfortunetly) a similar launch to SW:G except they had 4 full time developers and a small budget and Lucas had millions behind them.

You would expect better quality for the cash.

SOE could lower that online price by having a company within the EU handle the EU bills (pick the EU country with the lowest tax bracket).

A little off-topic, but planetside really isn't the first FPS MMORPG out there... Neocron is in the first person, and while not quite as twitch-based action style gameplay as Planetside, it's incredibly fun. It draws heavily from Deus Ex, yet putting it in a MMO setting works for it. Planetside seems a bit too much like just Tribes with a monthly charge.

That being said, I do play MMOGs as I said above. Yes there's a socializing aspect there, but it's a hell of a lot more fun to battle mutants and warbots in a post-apocalyptic wasteland with Deux Ex style character management than go to the gym in the game and pedal my ass off to up stats. Better to do that IRL than in game anyway.

One MMORPG that is in beta right now, Neocron (www.neocron.com) is considering using in-game advertisements in order to generate revenue. The setting for the game is futuristic (though based on a 21st century environment), so the idea would be to have billboards in-game advertising to the target audience of the users (e.g., hardware / software manufacturers). While I'm not too keen on having my online gaming experience intruded upon by ads from AMD or NVIDIA, I might be willing to overlook the real-world intrusion if the monthly fee is lowered (or non-existent).

I'm not at all surprised that Anarchy Online is living up to the more negative aspects of its name. Frankly, things are looking better and better for its major competitor, Neocron, which is just starting to enter beta. Neocron looks like it's going to be a lot better than AO.

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This does raise a bit of a question about what will happen when Neocron expands its beta to several thousand people, though. Hmmmm.
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I'm not terribly sanguine about Neocron's prospects to escape unchanged in this environment. Hailing from Europe (land of the unpixellated naked Sims), it has a bit more lax attitude about nudity, and features visibly naked strippers in the city's red-light district. (You can see them in the mpeg movie available from neocron.com's downloads page.)
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why don't the people who publish these MMORPGs give away the games for free?

Well, Neocron will (though admittedly they're not opening the source)--and they're even going to offer a subscription discount if you buy more than one month at a time, bringing the cost of the game down to about $8 a month if you buy time "in bulk".

As one of the first two hundred people outside the company picked to beta-test it, I'm very excited. I can't wait to see what it's like. I found the article very interesting, and I'm sure, as it said, that Neocron will have learned from the mistakes of its elders. The demo movie certainly looks enthralling . . .

why don't the people who publish these MMORPGs give away the games for free?

Well, Neocron will (though admittedly they're not opening the source)--and they're even going to offer a subscription discount if you buy more than one month at a time, bringing the cost of the game down to about $8 a month if you buy time "in bulk".

As one of the first two hundred people outside the company picked to beta-test it, I'm very excited. I can't wait to see what it's like. I found the article very interesting, and I'm sure, as it said, that Neocron will have learned from the mistakes of its elders. The demo movie certainly looks enthralling . . .

Neocron is a cyberpunk/postholocaust first-person shooter MMORPG that's been in development for over two years and built up quite a huge fandom, even with no playable demos during that time. All indications are, it's gonna rock. :)
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And anyway, it's not unheard of for a game to be reissued with a sponsor (or other element) removed. Witness the old NES game Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! which subsequently became just Punch-Out! with a different boss at the end.

But where period-licensed ads will really come into their own is in MMORPGs, such as Neocron, which I plugged in an earlier post. Since the game world is evolving and constantly changing, a billboard that's not rented can go back to being a fictitious corporation (or a "Want to advertise here? Call 1-800-XXX-XXXX!" notice) if the rent's not paid at the end of the period. If those help keep playing costs down, and can be kept "in-theme" as Neocron promises, I'm all for 'em!
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What I find interesting is the idea of using that to make virtual worlds more lifelike. Sure, you wouldn't see an ad for Coca-Cola in Everquest or Asheron's Call without suffering a bit of disbelief--but imagine a futuristic cyberpunk virtual world project like Neocron, whose screenshots already reveal advertisements for fictitious in-game products like "Tyrell Bionic Implants". In fact, in the Miscellaneous section of their FAQ, they note:

Are there any plans on how to keep the cost of the game down?
There may be billboards around the city advertising "real" products, which will help to keep the cost down and give the game a more realistic touch. The billboard advertisements will fit in with the theme of Neocron.

What I find interesting is the idea of using that to make virtual worlds more lifelike. Sure, you wouldn't see an ad for Coca-Cola in Everquest or Asheron's Call without suffering a bit of disbelief--but imagine a futuristic cyberpunk virtual world project like Neocron, whose screenshots already reveal advertisements for fictitious in-game products like "Tyrell Bionic Implants". In fact, in the Miscellaneous section of their FAQ, they note:

Are there any plans on how to keep the cost of the game down?
There may be billboards around the city advertising "real" products, which will help to keep the cost down and give the game a more realistic touch. The billboard advertisements will fit in with the theme of Neocron.

What I find interesting is the idea of using that to make virtual worlds more lifelike. Sure, you wouldn't see an ad for Coca-Cola in Everquest or Asheron's Call without suffering a bit of disbelief--but imagine a futuristic cyberpunk virtual world project like Neocron, whose screenshots already reveal advertisements for fictitious in-game products like "Tyrell Bionic Implants". In fact, in the Miscellaneous section of their FAQ, they note:

Are there any plans on how to keep the cost of the game down?
There may be billboards around the city advertising "real" products, which will help to keep the cost down and give the game a more realistic touch. The billboard advertisements will fit in with the theme of Neocron.

What I find interesting is the idea of using that to make virtual worlds more lifelike. Sure, you wouldn't see an ad for Coca-Cola in Everquest or Asheron's Call without suffering a bit of disbelief--but imagine a futuristic cyberpunk virtual world project like Neocron, whose screenshots already reveal advertisements for fictitious in-game products like "Tyrell Bionic Implants". In fact, in the Miscellaneous section of their FAQ, they note:

Are there any plans on how to keep the cost of the game down?
There may be billboards around the city advertising "real" products, which will help to keep the cost down and give the game a more realistic touch. The billboard advertisements will fit in with the theme of Neocron.

That being said, while I have no problem with people selling virtual items or money, I personally think that selling whole characters goes just a little too far. A character is supposed to be something personal, something that you put yourself into, not just a more powerful interface to hacking and slashing. My character for Neocron, whenever it comes on-line, will be something unique and special to me, and I'll never sell him (or her). Though, if I get high level enough that money and items start coming to me easily, I might just sell a few of them. (So far, Reakktor, the company putting the game together, have said they don't plan to forbid such sales unless it becomes a problem in the game.)
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