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In-Game Advertising Comes of Age
TotallyUseless writes: "Yahoo News is running a story about how in-game advertising is becoming more and more popular, and could become the norm soon. It is an interesting article and explains the reasons why game publishers and advertisers both see great potential in this." Bleh.
Mod parent down, it's goatsex, don't you moderators check these links!!!!!
I HATE adverts..
mind you, after playing GT and GT2 awhile, I decided to check out a real Subaru Impreza (7 in the GT garage) and decided hey! what a good car.
So I'm getting one. Don't care how many GAP and COLA ads they put in a game, won't look, won't buy, won't wear, won't drink.
Flame my ass, you'll have to catch me tho.
The non-commercial network had an interesting frontline on how six compainies controle all youth marketing. Worth a look: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool /
(your ad here)
...the fact that further down the article there's a reference to billboards in GTA3. Now forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought the whole point of the GTA franchise was car theft. Just a thought.
It pissed me off when I have to wait through 8 seconds of loading to see the mandatory EA Sports animation so I can click start and sit through 8 more seconds of loading so I can click start again to skip their fucking intro movie. And then 8 more seconds to the actual main menu.
The movie code is actually quite small. Most of the front-end and in-game code is being loaded before the movie, along with significant amounts of graphics data just after. Movies are streamed from the disk though, so the only load time is for what is played before you button through it. Also, PS2 seems to have fairly long seek times, so the arrangement of files on the disk (and the order they are loaded in) can make a big difference to load times. Also don't forget, the PS2 drive is faster than a PS1 (factor of 12?), but the amount of RAM has gone up even more (factor of 14?).
Do you really think that we WANT to give you long loading times? The movie placement is partially a way to break up the long loading process with something hopefully interesting (although I've always wondered if the perception that ONLY the movie was loading was defeating the purpose). The logo splash is branding / advertising, which is kind of annoying, but we try to keep it short. I think most (OK, some) of us are aware that pissing off our customers is going to hurt repeat business, which is what we're advertising to get in the first place...
Posting anonymously so my employer doesn't freak out...
From monkey island. This is nothing new.
For the uninitiated, there was a pirate in one of the bars on melee island with a badge, reading "Ask me about loom". And there was a silly, yet amusing conversation you could have with him, about loom, funnily enough.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
Movies have been doing this for years. Some do it cleverly so that you see the product but don't feel as though you just saw an advertisement for said product. "Oh, look at the computer that guy is using. Aw, that's a cute i-mac" They rely on the subconscious connection that you make between product and super-duper-computing-power. "Hey, if a mac was good enough for Sandra Bullock, its good enough for me."
Then there are the not-so-clever advertisments in movies. Anyone here see Inspector Gadget? Wow. Blatant ad placement. Skittles, Coke, McDonalds, etc. All in the car. How sad.
Then, you also have games that have done this as far back (perhaps further) as the original 8bit Nintendo. Anyone remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Every other picture in the game was an ad for Pizza Hut. That was too much. Why was there that much advertising for one company all on the same wall. There were other ways that the ads could have been worked in that wouldn't have been quite so anoying. I wouldn't have thought twice about it if I had seen coke machines in Shogo. But I did stop and take an extra look at them simply becuause they weren't Coke (or Pepsi, but mainly because they weren't Coke). I think that right there speaks to the level of penetration these products have in our lives.
something clever
Take a look at the Gran Turismo series ( http://ps2.ign.com/games/13846.html )
it definately IMHO adds to the realism of a game about a very comercial industry. This is already the best racing game for its physics and realism, I only hope the ad revenue makes it a better game.
...all futuristic games can only have ads from Taco Bell.
I seem to recall billboards for Coca Cola and other products as well.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Mine was a Think Geek ad for a 20GB MP3 Player. That REALLY got my attention, too.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Script kiddies nothin!
I'd work night and day until I found a way to disable such a system!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I dunno.
McDonalds, Coca Cola, Pepsi, 7-11, Nike, Taco Bell, Calvin Klein, McDonalds and McDonalds are on my permanent shit list, mostly because of their annoying and/or manipulative ads.
I used to like Taco Bell until they came out with that friggin yapper dog.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Ah, but in that case the dumpster is the primary landmark, is it not? :)
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Did FedEx bankroll that entire movie by itself? I would think for a 2 hour FedEx commercial starring 2-time academy award winner Tom Hanks, production costs for the film should approach zero.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Yeah but...
Say I'm an advertising rep for Tom's of Maine brand toothpaste, and I make a deal with EA that says in the upcoming Sid Meyer's Civilization 3, there will be an ancient civilization called "Tom's Toothpastians".
Now, after the game CD's are pressed and distributed, I know that my cleverly placed ad is a permanent part of the game. Am I going to continue to pay for that ad? Not bloody likely!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Oh, now that's funny!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Push Over, in 1990 (1991?) for the Atari ST had Cheese Quavers ads in it.
:)
Tapper, in 1984 or so was chock-full of Bud ads.
It's not even the 90's
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Sure as hell did! I had at least 4 people say to me "Hey, that's like Neo's 'phone", and ask to take a look at it.
First of all, as others here have noted, there have been ads in games for years now. The Red Bull ads in the second Wipeout game were among the more clever, but look at sports titles too. When you see Coke, Panasoinc, Valvoline and Reebok logos in racing games, those are paid ads. There has also been product placement in RPG games for a while.
Michael, Michael, Michael. Do you have any idea how much it costs to create a new game these days? It's millions of dollars, often tens of millions. You want RPGs with giant worlds with realistic streets and buildings full of furniture,and knickknacks, and dozens of voice actors saying lines for a hundred or more animated characters? You want sports games where hundreds of motion-captured athletes are simulated down to physical tics, and cars are simulated from their oversteer and gear ratios to the pitch of their exhaust noise? Fine.
Now bear in mind that the publisher is selling the game to retailers for less than half the suggested retail price--often much less, because they're also paying for shelf space and local advertising even beyond their own national ads. And that's the publisher. The developer, unless they're a one-stop shop like EA or Sega, gets a small fraction of that.
You whine whine whine every time a game development shop you like gets bought out or goes out of business, and you whine whine whine when they try to sell ads to offset those insane development costs.
My flatmate is a big fan of rallying and racing games on his PlayStation. Consequently one of the games he likes is Colin McRae Rally 2. You get a selection of rally cars in the game - Evos, WRX's, and the Ford Focus. It just so happens that McRae drives a Focus...hence I find it rather suspicious that my flatmate reports the Focus is far less susceptible to damage than the other cars in the game.
Duke Nukem3D was originally had cans of Cola for health, but they were removed before the final version. IIRC, they used pictures of 6packs of Coka Cola.
;)
:P
:)
I'm sure this isn't the only example of such usage; I wouldn't be shocked if other commercial game engines have used easily available artwork while the game's artists were still at work, programmers aren't always very good at making their own art! So, perhaps this could speed development of games
Seriously though, this wouldn't work for say... quake3d, but it could work great for: Baseball, football, racing games, etc. It could work for realism fps like CounterStrike or maybe even UT.. but not all games would work so well with this, particularly games that deal with the future. Imagine a Star Wars game with an advertisement for TacoBell?
Ok, TacoBell may fit into a game version of Demolition Man, but a game based on "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" wouldn't be able to have many ads after the Earth blows up.. unless Microsoft really IS the Borg
Actually, maybe Microsoft are really a bunch of Volgons.. their code is poetry. If you know the hitchhiker's guide, then you would understand
Be cool if it were something like product placement ads in a movie. Someone drinking a coke, or wearing a T-shirt with a logo.
Think about it, in an FPS, blowing away bad guys and monsters that are wearing corporate logo might be fun. "DIE Microsoft, DIE Target!!"
-josh
The reason for such blatant branding isn't all about advertising. In order to protect their fashion design the designers stylize their logo and stick it on their clothing. Tommy Hilfiger shirts are identified by not only their colours but their logo. Were the logo not there, anyone could make a similar shirt with a similar cut and sell it cutting in on Tommy Hilfiger's profits. By having a very marketable logo and stylizing it on products you prevent people from copying your style. It's VERY profitable and smart marketing dude. Clothing companies are good at it and thus make lots of money.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Actually, no, in some parts of the world TV broadcasts are free, like radio. You do pay for cable, but the theory is that this is because otherwise you couldn't pick up those stations at all.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Of course, actually getting conscious attention does help, which is why people are always trying to make ads that do that--and they were even decades back--take the "Burma Shave" ad signs, for example. But just seeing the brands, logos, images supposedly implants a subconscious brand awareness that can be leveraged. That's why people still pay for banner ads even when the clickthrough rates are abysmal. (Though, given how they're beginning not to pay for banner ads, perhaps peoples' impressions of this are changing...)
Anyway, the game designers aren't terribly stupid. I don't think they'll throw in any interruptive ads in anywhere except where they'd be displaying something non-game anyway (Half-Life's "Loading..." screen, for instance). If they did, then people simply wouldn't buy.
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
And anyway, it's not unheard of for a game to be reissued with a sponsor (or other element) removed. Witness the old NES game Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! which subsequently became just Punch-Out! with a different boss at the end.
But where period-licensed ads will really come into their own is in MMORPGs, such as Neocron, which I plugged in an earlier post. Since the game world is evolving and constantly changing, a billboard that's not rented can go back to being a fictitious corporation (or a "Want to advertise here? Call 1-800-XXX-XXXX!" notice) if the rent's not paid at the end of the period. If those help keep playing costs down, and can be kept "in-theme" as Neocron promises, I'm all for 'em!
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
You do have to admit, though--System Shock 2 also had a lot of advertising in it, even if it was all for fictitious in-game products. Heck, the replicators advertised themselves every time you used one. And let's not forget the shopping mall level...
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
What I find interesting is the idea of using that to make virtual worlds more lifelike. Sure, you wouldn't see an ad for Coca-Cola in Everquest or Asheron's Call without suffering a bit of disbelief--but imagine a futuristic cyberpunk virtual world project like Neocron, whose screenshots already reveal advertisements for fictitious in-game products like "Tyrell Bionic Implants". In fact, in the Miscellaneous section of their FAQ, they note:
You see that? Not only will it reduce costs, and make the advertisers happy, it'll enhance the verisimilitude, the realism, of the game by making it seem more and more like you really are in such a city. I think that's all to the good.--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Will you know before you've spent your money? I have a feeling that many game reviewers will neglect to mention this aspect, just as they have historically neglected to mention annoyances such as copy protection.
Such faith is heartening! Alas, if I recall cable television, the public has accepted similar things before.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
If it makes for better games and a less stressful development schedule, I think most development studios or publishers will sell a texture here and there. All you ever hear about games development is how hard & deadline-obsessed it is, and that this is very often the ruin of what might have been a good game if only they'd had a bit more cash to finish it properly. In-game ads can easily be done to a tasteful degree, without wrecking any atmosphere, as most people have pointed out, and indeed can save artists a lot of time-- can't imagine how many more backgrounds the Zool people would have painted if all those delicious Chupa Chups weren't floating around in the backdrops :-) For games where ads are intrusive, or people dislike them on principle, most PC games are easily patchable, but most people really won't care. So, ermm, yes. Hurrah for adverts if it makes for more good games.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Like, say, Charlie's Angels. Much as it's cool to see Handspring Visors and Sony Vaios, did they have to focus on the company logos for _that_ long?
It's kinda hard to know what to do about this -
Buy stock in gaming companies...
Great, so it won't fire if you drop it, but when your kid finds it, he "can fully concentrate on the tactical tasks required" to point it at his friend and blow his head off.
I believe that "Micro Olympics" for the BBC B and Acorn Electron, published by the same people who published Micro User and Electron User, was the first game in the UK to offer in game adverts.
Man, that was ages ago.
I first saw this in Wipeout 2097 which (in the UK at least) was sponsored by Red Bull - an energy drink that tastes of cough medicine. Freaked me out slightly to think of there being advertising rates for billboards that didn't exist in 'the real world' (tm).
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
Tapper (coin-op) came out the same year as Pole Position. It advertised Budweiser.
Are you kidding? Crazy Taxi has to be just about the worst example I can think of in terms of intrusive advertising; "take me to the Original Levis' Store" says the guy jumping into your cab, and it winds me up every time. I don't mind so much when it's appropriate product placement like skateboards and clothing in THPS or real cars in a driving game. The very worst example I've played has to be Metropolis Street Racer, with adverts for real products interspersed with the music in its innovative but extremely sucky fake radio stations. Fortunately the music is so bad you'll turn it off after 10 minutes play :)
Zelda is near perfection? WHAT!?
You like running back and forth across the same areas because the game design is such that any two consecutive events are the maximum distance apart? Or maybe you like running around pulling up bushes for hours collecting enough coins to buy some necessary item?
Or, in Z64, perhaps you love the Tomb Raider-esque camera that swings around at inconvenient moments, rarely shows the things you need to see, and the hideous control system for manually moving the camera?
Maybe it's the endless reflex-based puzzles in the middle of what's billed as an RPG or an adventure?
How about the complete lack of customized character development?
Zelda is a lousy game, loved only by people who haven't seen the depth that's possible in a PC game. (Where a save-game can store the state of the world, not just the number of EXP and GOLD that you found.)
Seriously, in the adventure/rpg (well, almost anything except fighting or racing games) PCs blow away consoles.
Ad companies consider it a success whenever anyone recognizes their brands, regardless of what the opinion is...
By their standards, you're a success story. Weird, no?
I feel the same as you do. They may have achieved brand recognition, but I use that to avoid purchasing products from companies I dislike.
I really should be more vocal about it, calling the 1-800 numbers of these companies and explaining why I'm not buying their products. Maybe they'd get the picture. But, I doubt it...
I really think advertising is a scam; that the ad agencies have convinced companies that showing some droolers happily using a product is going to convince more people to buy that. Especially those lame commercials where they only name the product in the last second.
But, maybe I'm odd - I don't buy by brand, I shop by price and features, as directly verified as possible. (ie, not "5/7 doctors prefer..." but "128MB of RAM". The only concession I make to brand shopping is to weed out the products of companies who use annoying advertising, or companies who hide product info. (Making it hard to comparison shop.)
They can call me a success if they want, but all brand recognition lets me do is enter them into juckbuster.
It's an 8110
Pictures here: http://www.nokiainfo.f2s.com/the_matrix.html
Advertising in video games (if done right) add realism. Simulation video games should mimic real-life as closely as possible, and if the Formula 1 racing or hockey game I've bought isn't replete of advertising, I'm gonna be pissed!
However, advertising in video games directly targeted at children (ala Mario) should not have any advertising whatsoever.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
GameSpy will be at the top of the list of people buying space in games.
I can't wait till games start poping up a dialog when they start that says "This game was not launched with GameSpy(r), the most popular server borwser. GameSpy, the Windows95 of server browsers."
In my opinion if I'm paying $60 for a game and/or $15/month I don't want a single add in the game, but if the price drops for games with adds then I'm cool with it.
I mean, radio has a lot of commercials, and we don't pay for it!
If you want free TV you can pull out a pair of 'Rabit Ears' and get all the free tv you want. Cable provides a Value Added service, you get a cleaner picture and more channels (181 max for standard cable).
Are you talking about Rocket Jocky made by Sega Soft?
I see this happening first, and probably most successfully, in sports games. I can't quote actual sales figures, but I would imagine that EA's top selling titles happen to all be sports games. (Madden NFL, NBA Live, Triple Play, and their game for each and every sport including golf and soccer) The games are updated every year without fail (mostly due to the nature of the games changing, as well as engine improvements and other advances beyond roster updates) and so could the advertisements. People who enjoy these games tend to buy the new years version of the game every year (I'm personally guilty, I've bought the last 3 madden games, and the last 2 High heat games from 3D0) and as such the advertisement contracts could be changed, and re-paid every year. On one hand, I almost don't understand why this hasn't happened already with the overwhelming corporate sponsorship in sports as it is. The stadiums are named for corporations, they're all adorned with logos, billboards, banners and other such advertisements, and honestly the games don't end up being as realistic with a "Joe's Tire" billboard in place of the amazingly large Budweiser billboard in certain baseball parks. If you know a stadium, even the advertisements add to the flavor and the 'feel' of the stadium, and I see the game companies joining up with the venues to 'migrate' the advertisements from their corporate sponsors to the video games. Except for the fact that they'd be soaked with beer advertisements and kids do play the games, it reaches their target audiences fairly well, and to me only seems like a logical extension of the advertisement world. I wouldn't be surprised to see authentic replicas of hockey arenas in the next EA hockey game, which I think should be the next major sports game that EA brings out, sometime near September or October. They appear to be willing to be the first to jump into massive amounts of advertising, and I wish them well, as long as their reduced development cost is reflected in a price drop for games. Wishful thinking, but what other 'advertising medium' do you pay for AND have to view ads? Except for movies these days (what the hell is up with the TV commercials before the previews these days? I paid 8 bucks to see a movie, not a pepsi commercial, especially when the pepsi costs 3 dollars).
I have no problem with placing ads if I see benefit. If the price of the game goes down 90% I'm all for it. But guess where that 90% is going to go? The consumers aren't going to see any of it.
spoons
Actually, no, in some parts of the world TV broadcasts are free, like radio. You do pay for cable, but the theory is that this is because otherwise you couldn't pick up those stations at all.
How much of your weekly shopping trip do you think is spent on marketing of the products you buy? A good chunk of that money goes straight from the advertisers to the TV networks, and a chunk of that is paid to local affiliates, and a chunk to content generators. So the above poster is correct; you *have* already paid to watch TV, and this is why cable shouldn't contain ads, nor should games, and if they do they should be markedly cheaper. Except the price is always as high as the market will bear, of course...
Whether or not you watch commercial television, you're still paying for it to be made, unless you grow your own food/make your own tools/etc.
deus does not exist but if he does
the income from ads will be used to reduce
the price to the consumer...
yeah.
sure.
It's kinda hard to know what to do about this -
with TV when the ads become too annoying I just turn the TV off and go read a book or something.
But a computer game - where I've already paid for it...
I find this idea as offensive as the compulsory
(no fast forward) advertising they put in DVDs.
The only place I'd find it acceptable is in real-world simulations. Racing games, maybe flight sims, possibly some of the FPS's. Other games I play to *escape* the shit that's in RL, not immerse myself in more of it.
- Muggins
Seriously thou; I would see the Comic Book companies REALLY getting into this without TOO many of us complaining too loudly. (Where is my Dirty Pair?)
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
It will make car racing games more realistic. Instead of driving under a big tyre on pit straight that says "Dunlopo"
I dunno about that.... my brother and I used to go into laughing fits at some of the pseudo-brand names in the old racing games... ("Popsi", anyone?)
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Dave
MicrosoftME®? No, Microsoft YOU, buddy! - my boss
- Dave
Yeah right. The way I see it, games will remain the same cost in addition to the presence of advertisements. Why?
The sad fact remains that most computer games are NOT blockbusters. Games like Halflife, Diablo, Starcraft, and The Sims are the exceptions and not the norm. This forces game developers to use tried and true formulas (read FPS, RTS, or RPG) and to literally develop game clones in the hope that fans of the original game won't mind snapping up a copy. (Not that game developers are at fault... Great, original games have been ignored by ignorant gamers.)
Now, with the advent of advertising, perhaps more unique games can be developed where developers aren't 100% forced to develop a game that will be "guaranteed" to return a minimum profit, because advertising income could be used to offset the cost of development.
Then again, it could also signal the downfall of gaming, which could parallel the downfall of television as a medium. Today, many of the sitcoms on TV are clones of others so that TV execs can make a sales pitch to advertising companies along the lines of "Hey! Our show is practically a clone of XX show, that we'd be guaranteed to attract XX's audience. You should advertise during our show's time block."
Of course, scenario two is probably the likely outcome, since most game publishers are out to maximize profit instead of maximizing "entertainment" value of their products.
Actually, it should be noted here that the Squaresoft game Parasite Eve 2 did in fact have Coca-Cola product placement.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
As long as I don't see a Coca-Cola add in a tavern in Diablo or Baldur's Gate I'm happy.
what a bunch of fucking hypocrites(sp?)
"we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" --Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
i usually buy tshirts with nothing written on them at all. is there a reason for this? i dont think a multinational company like nike really needs my help. the greatest achievement of corporate america was to convince the general public that being a walking billboard is cool. now people actually pay to advertise for nike, tommy, levis, etc.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
Commercials influence you, whether you think you pay attention to them or not. And the most annoying ones are the most effective. Think about that for a second.
Also note that Final Fantasy IX and X have product deals with Coke in Japan. The IX OSTs have the songs from the commercials (instrumental at least), and you can get collectable figurines from X when you buy a coke right now in Japan. (More info here.)
buy glocks. they dont have wimpy things like safeties AND they're porcelain.
annoying ones turn people OFF from the product. i usually buy nike t shirts but after seeing those people with bruises on them in the nike ads i actually was pissed off enough that i stopped buying nike t shirts. i dunno - maybe its just me - but annoying ads really piss me off enough to turn away from a product.
bah. ive had weapons around me since i was 13 (including an AR-15 in my cupboard next to my bed with 2000+ rounds of ammo) and i had no problems. its all about how you raise your kid.
yeah i know about the glock trigger safeties and stuff..glocks have some ceramic parts..just not the barrel and stuff but they are lighter thatn most weapons due to the ceramics.
Makes perfect sense. Certain groups in the United States believe that videogames can act as a catalyst for violent behavior. Kids that already have violent tendencies see images which desensitize them to violence, making the acting upon of those violent tendencies more likely.
If that reasoning holds true, then the situation simply switches from violence to consumption. Kids that already have consumeristic tendencies see images which desensitize them to pervasive advertising, making the acting upon of those consumeristic tendencies more likely.
(Note: I don't necessarily agree with the above logic myself. Just pointing out the similar pop-psychology.)
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
I think its funny :)
Yea, I noticed those Red Bull ads in Wipeout XL... mostly cuz I played it for 10 hours straight once. Awesome game. I wish I had that for the computer... (yea I know it was released on the PC, but it JUST wasn't the same)
:)
Yea, I also don't appreciate that "Oh god, not more ads" attitude. I've always LIKED advertisements... the less grating ones, anyway. Commercials can be entertaining, billboards can be eye-grabbing, etc. As long as they're not abrasive, they're fine. I think video game ads would be a good example of ads that would be less intrusive than most. And anything that reduces the cost of video games is OK by me
This is a LAF, or Late April Fools (yes, I know it should be a Late April Fools Joke, but then the acronym isn't nearly as amusing).
Personally, I think that ads in games are fine, so long as they don't interfere with gameplay. And if it does interfere with gameplay, then I expect the game to receive a lower review because of the inferior gameplay.
I also think that well-places ads in news sites is also appropriate. I like most of the ads on Slashdot, and make a point of reading them. I realize that they are opinions, and take them as such (I know that's difficult for some to understand). The ads on Slashdot expose me to products that I might have never known about otherwise. After I'm exposed to the product, I still do the standard amount of research to make sure that the ad lives up to its claim, and that it really is the best product for me (sometimes it is, sometimes its not). My point is, so long as you realize that something is an ad, it can't be harmful (unless it's obnoxious because its vulgar [which is personally defined], or because it flashes, etc).
The only ads that bother me are the ones that come from something/someone that should be impartial, and are not generally understood to be ads. For instance, if Coke sponsors a 60 Minutes investigation of unhealthy practices by Pepsi, then 60 Minutes had better say "This investigation sponsored by Coke" at the beginning and end of every commercial break.
Note that this is not the same as Quake IV including a Smith & Wesson (sp?) gun. I *don't* expect impartiality from game makers. As far as I'm concerned, they're in the entertainment industry, and I don't expect impartiality from that industry (otherwise I'd have to ban myself from everything that came out of Hollywood in the past couple decades).
I don't know about the uneducated masses, but *I* expect impartial, unbiased, well-researched NEWS from my games. Filling them with ads just to lower the price would confuse the issue, and I would no longer be able to trust the impartiality of the gaming industry. What's the world coming to?
/. ("*News* for Nerds. Stuff that matters") has every right to place ads in their pages and promote sales for other businesses (such as ThinkGeek.com). In fact, I expect it. When I go to a news site, I *want* the opinions of the editors, because to me, that's the "Stuff that matters"!
Now, news sources such as
Do you know what the ad at the top of this page is right now? You saw it, but you didn't notice.
:)
Actually, I didn't because I have ad-blocking software.
Bzzt...there are three different safeties (it's just that none of them require action on your part other than to point and shoot), and the "porcelain Glock" doesn't exist. It's some BS model made up to go in one of the Die Hard (?) movies. This page on Glock's website explains what the safeties are and how they work.
Getting back on topic, what do you suppose will be the odds that you can filter out the ads that appear in games? Are they likely to be hardcoded into the game, or would they be pulled off the 'net periodically? (Not that I'm into gameplaying much, even though I have a machine now that'll run damn near anything...)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
No ceramics...they're too brittle. The receiver is plastic, with some metal parts in the trigger mechanism. As you noted, the barrel and slide are metal. (I have a Glock 23...I speak from experience.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
So Will Nike pay Nintendo who pays ID for Ash to wear a "Swoosh"(tm) hat on a billboard ad for Pokemon Stadium II in Doom 3?
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Already, several games contain faked advertising. Certain Counter-Strike maps contain billboards for imaginary products related to the game's fiction. These could easily be replaced with advertisements for real products. The Half-Life single player game starts with a monologue from a government employee - surely a message not to do drugs, or to quit smoking, could be delivered in this speech (government departments advertise too remember). There are also rolling advertisement banners in the coridoors as you progress through the game.
Even Duke Nukem 3D had advertising for ficticious products - it wouldn't be hard to replace them with ads for real products in Duke Nukem Forever (the forever though seems to relate to how long we'll be waiting for it...).
In fact, I'm sure that any game which takes place within a semi-realistic environment could easily be non-intrusively advertised in.
My only question though is this: Would this makes games cheaper for the end-user, or would it simply mean that game developers would get more money for their efforts, with the gamer still paying "full price" for what is a advertising subsidised product.
Advertising in games will provide another revenue stream for game creators. This effect will be very bad. Now instead of working on making the game better, game publishers will be concerned about hyping the game so they can get more ad revenue. "The most awaited game of the year!" "Give your ad budget to us!" Small publishers (read: creative publishers) won't get any of this money.
Just think about all the ad revenue that daikatana could have pulled in. The hype was amazing... the newspaper articles, the fawning websites, the mention in Playboy... advertisers would have been falling all over themselves trying to get their product placement into daikatana... "I don't care if it sucks, I read about it in the New York Times!"
It is a good thing that Ion Storm lost a bundle on daikatana. They should have. The game sucked. Romero is an idiot. Losing millions on the game taught them this lesson, that they won't soon forget.
Advertising revenue would have reduced the power of the lesson. That would have been a BAD THING.
--
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth. Who wrote yours?
Presented by Wal-Mart & McDonalds:
Play through Wal-Mart..
See lots of signs saying "Low low prices!"
Shoot the Target salesmen..
The McDonalds holds the health packs, the Burger King has acid pool for floor..
Yeah companies'd love that.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Not.
...) or something similar. Next one game will advertise the other and it's only money being pushed around in circles and the game itself being more expensive than before, because they need people to move all that money around, all kinds of lawyers and whatnot.
If there can be made more money from a game by advertising, that money will only pay for a bigger industry, more managers, shareholder value, whatever, the same way it is with music. Then, after the MPAA and the RIAA we'll have the CGIAA (Computer Gaming Industry
Consumers should start to realize, that in the end they pay everything, all the advertising too. So even if it were true and Coca Cola payed half the game for you, you'd pay the Game little by little with each can of coke.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
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CitizenC
Eat Snacky Smores®
But honestly, I think he has a point. I play a bunch of EA games on the PS2. Mostly Madden 2001 and Knockout Kings 2001. As the PS2 is DVD based, there ARE load times associated with animations, unlike cartridge based systems.
It pissed me off when I have to wait through 8 seconds of loading to see the mandatory EA Sports animation so I can click start and sit through 8 more seconds of loading so I can click start again to skip their fucking intro movie. And then 8 more seconds to the actual main menu.
I mean that's 24 seconds gone. Sit here and count slowly to 24. Can you honestly tell me you didn't stop before you got there? It's a long freaking time...
Justin Dubs
sorry to do this to everybody, it's kinda related though. Check out the billboard's in
this screenshot of Acclaim's All-Star Baseball 2002. Oy Vey! This is truly a sign of the coming apocalypse!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Your example is a good one; there were only a few games that were based themselves on an ad campaign, and they were usually pretty horrible. "Noid" is the only one I can actually think of now. However, you do have disney games like "Adventures in the Magic Kingdom", which rely on familiarity with the Disney product line; these are often similar in both execution and quality.
:)
Crappy games with a movie/tv show license, such as "Terminator", "Jeopardy", and "The Simpsons", are probably the next level down in terms of shoddiness. They basically reinforce the campaign for the related product, without requiring a high level of quality. Though there are exceptions, I can't think of any right now.
Then you have games that were based on toys; "GI Joe" (as per below), "Micro Machines", and yes, "Barbie", all had their own games. Interestingly, these were usually a little better than the movie tie-ins, but not by much.
There were a few games that were heavily sponsored by one or two corporations; "TMNTurtles 2" was solely sponsored by Pizza Hut, and you would be hard pressed not to notice that if you have played it. Though the gameplay on these can actually be good, the heavy ad influence definitely takes its toll on the presentation.
And there are also the "spinoff" games, which market the characters themselves in sort of a self-propagating ad campaign. Pretty much every Mario Game after the original "Super Mario Bros." falls into this category; "Yoshi's Cookie" is a great example. Interestingly, these games can even be pretty good, or pretty horrible. This is a continuing trend today. Konami even had a series of games in Japan based on Konami man, a character that could become several of the other Konami mascots. It's not a bad game, but kind of boring.
And finally, you have the completely original games that presumably gain their influence solely from the designers, such as "River City Ransom" (one of the best), "Lifeforce/Gradius", and "Chubby Cherub (one of the worst). These are a control group, really.
So what's the bottom line? Advertising in games has it's place, much like product placement in movies. It seems reasonable to see Mountain Dew billboards in "Tony Hawk Pro Skater" for PSX, simply because of the company's existing marketing. If that helps the game pull in some extra development cash and makes Pepsico happy, so much the better. At the same time, in game ads must be unobtrusive and appropriate. I'm sure you can imagine the pain a "singing pepsi girl" ad would iflict if it looped every time you paused "Alien Cheese Factory" on your Nintendo Game Dodecahedron.
Erm, carry on.
I assert ownership of all trademarks and copyrights on this page.
That was that ST:TNG episode, right? Best episode ever.
I assert ownership of all trademarks and copyrights on this page.
The two and a half hour long FedEx commercial. The perfect instance of Corporate sponsorship ruining a movie, hopefully games don't get that bad.
treke
Fame is a vapor; popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion.
Dreamcast released a game caled Crazy Taxi, last year, I think. The game is basically one giant advertisment. Customers ask to goto places such as Original Levis Store, The Gap, Kentucky Fried Chicken, etc. The game is quite fun to play, but the blatent advertisemnt is quite pathetic.
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Actually.. I did know what was at the top of the page. A blank black box. Thats when I started wondering how /. could have a busted images server in rotation when they pull ads from several sources.
Rod Taylor
No, I don't block banners either. Sometimes I even click on 'em when I'm interested.
Rod Taylor
Hi.
Well - People pay for newspapers/magazines - they have lots of ads as well...
Thomas
The only ads I pay attention to are A) Funny or B) During the super bowl (e.g. funny).
We've become desensitized to pretty much all advertisements. Do you know what the ad at the top of this page is right now? You saw it, but you didn't notice. The first game to have ads might see success, but by the second game no one will notice the ads anymore.
In addition, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't really make product choices based on what I see in ads (Except of course, Pepsi because of Brittney Spears!!! She's hot.)
--
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Didn't this become the norm years ago when they released "Yo! Noid"?
--
The shareholder is always right.
Please moderators, follow the friggin' links before you mod them up. Go take a look at that and see what you get. It's goatse.cx.
You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>open mailbox
The mailbox is overflowing with all sorts of gaudy mail with pictures of various commodities and colourful logos.
You feel slightly uneasy...
>run away
You can't do that right now.
>west
You are standing in front of a McDonalds(tm) restaurant.
There is a can of Coke(tm) here.
>drink Coke
It's very refreshing...
>west
It is dark here. You might be eaten by a grue(tm).
No sig.
I would have no problems looking at in-game adds, if they weren't obtrusive. They of course also, to make me happy, would have to reduce the cost of the game if not give them away. I'd play more games if they cost $10 with ads instead of $50 without ads.
Or even more realistic is Grand Prix Legends (also from Sierra). The most difficult racing game ever due to its amazing realisim and the level of detail is stunning.
Never mind the cracks to defeat copy protection, I would imagine that people would be creating & downloading cracks just to disable the 2-minute long force-you-to-watch advertising sequence.
... but if you could switch to your Ericsson T-98 radiation phone and cause massive amounts of braincancer to the Nokia salesmen would that be cool?
I would have said Pole Position, but after reading the article, I wonder whether those Atari was licensing as opposed to real adverts...
Does anybody know of a video game before Pole Position that contained what looked like advertising? What about the first real (ie, $$ paid to the publisher) ad in a video game?
--mkb
But they were all disapointed when it didn't eject? (If they were disappointed that they couldn't downlaod kungfu with it, then they may need help)
I'm convinced that the Matrix is why Nokia put a sprung cover onto the 7110....
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
I pray to Miyamoto above that this will never happen. Zelda games have been goddamn near perfection for many years, I don't wanna see the inevitable downslide until after Miyamoto dies ;-)
- Also Sprach Doktor Merkwurdigliebe
Nice troll dude, but I'll bite (haven't got anything better to do):
;-). If there is one thing Zelda: OoT got right, it was the camera. You honestly cannot compare it to Tomb Raider in any way. It did not swing around, and you only had one control to adjust the camera, which was all that was needed. Zelda's Z-Lock mechanism was revolutionary, you'll be seeing it more often in 3D-games, like in Z.O.E.
You like running back and forth across the same areas because the game design is such that any two consecutive events are the maximum distance apart?
Zelda's overworld is such that there usually is a central area with dungeon-areas dotted around it. You call it "running back and forth", I call it exploration. You really don't have to travel that much, providing you don't rush things and act on hints when they appear.
Or maybe you like running around pulling up bushes for hours collecting enough coins to buy some necessary item?
I don't know what games you're comparing Zelda to, but The Quest For Mo'Money has always been a part of these types of game. And there are far better and quicker ways to collect money than wacking bushes. Just going through a dungeon will furnish you with plenty of cash.
Or, in Z64, perhaps you love the Tomb Raider-esque camera that swings around at inconvenient moments, rarely shows the things you need to see, and the hideous control system for manually moving the camera?
Here I knew you were trolling
Maybe it's the endless reflex-based puzzles in the middle of what's billed as an RPG or an adventure?
I for the life of me don't know what you're talking about. There are SOME mini-games that require some dexterity, but puzzles are never reflex-based as far as I know. Examples?
How about the complete lack of customized character development?
Zelda is not a CRPG! It's an action-RPG or action-adventure and it cannot be compared to traditional RPGs in that way, because nobody (apart from you) thinks they are the same category of game. I bet you thought Metal Gear Solid sucked too because you couldn't customize Snake's personality?
Zelda is a lousy game,
Now, I can understand some people not liking Zelda games, because they don't like that type of game (I think you belong in that category), but you cannot call it a lousy game because of that. Zelda's game design is excellent, it could serve as a template for a course on game-design. It is why these games receive such high notes, they are truely masterpieces of game-design.
loved only by people who haven't seen the depth that's possible in a PC game.
No way, I love my PC and I prefer it as a gaming machine, but there is nothing like Zelda or Mario on the PC. Nintendo is one of the best game-studios in the world, but they don't develop for PC. The quality of a game is not determined by its depth, but by the quality of gameplay or the funfactor and Nintendo games are very "deep" in that.
(Where a save-game can store the state of the world, not just the number of EXP and GOLD that you found.)
Again I wonder what game you've been playing, because Zelda does have a changing world-state as you progress, while it has nothing like EXP (experience points).
Seriously, in the adventure/rpg (well, almost anything except fighting or racing games) PCs blow away consoles
No they don't, they just have some different types of adventures/RPGs. You apparently prefer the PC style, which is fine, but don't knock the console versions. They provide as high a quality of games as PCs. I personally like PC RPGs very much, but they aren't the same type of game as Final Fantasy or Zelda games.
And you're wrong about racing games as well. Fighting games pretty much only exist on consoles, but PCs are far better racing game machines. Both are about par in arcade racers, but PCs excel in sim racers. There's nothing like Grand Prix Legends on consoles.
- Also Sprach Doktor Merkwurdigliebe
Movies have had product placemnet ever since I can remember. Games haven't just started this though. If I remember right, there was actually a game put together by ford in which you drove guess what....Fords. Also, do you really think that the auto manufacterures didn't lobby game companies to put their cars in the game? Personally, to me, this will add realism. Instead of billboards for fake products, you have billboards for real products. Makes a whole lot of sense to me! Also, not sure if it will, but if they start getting ad revenue, then maybe they won't charge 50-60 bucks for a game. Now, I DO have a problem with buying a utility from norton and having an add take up screen space. Those products are worth their price while some games just aren't. Anyone remember Daikatana???? :)
Gorkman
This isn't anything new. Wipeout (96?) had Red Bull ads in it, some of WildTangent's games have had banner ads in the loading screens, and online games like Trivial Pursuit Online and Flipside.com games have had mid-game full screen ads in them.
/., I always cringe, since it means either a whole bunch of misinformed posts are going to be created, or I'm going to have to read an article about something that happened ten years ago...
There have even been full-length console games for which the sole purpose of them was to advertise - I think mainly of the "Cool Spot" and "Fido Dido" games for 7-up.
Bleh, indeed. Whenever I see a game related topic on
I've lost track of how many times I've installed 95, 98, NT.. Probably over fifty times on my home computer. However, I don't watch the ads, I already know I'm living a happier and more productive life (except when I'm reinstalling, crashing or getting raped daily).
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
They also talk of adding it to games like Everquest. If you don't know that's a fantasy RPG set in a fictional world way back durring the sword, armour, and magic type time. I really doubt it would add anything to see a big "Drink Coke: billboard in the middle of an ogre infested battlefield.\ =\=\=\=\=\=\=\
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=
If it makes sence in teh context of the game then it's ok with me. Say there is an RTS set int eh current day United States, It minght make sence to see a Coke billboard by the road. Heck, it would be fun to blow it up in a huge ball of fire.= \=\=\=\
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
Of course, I should have known it would be that way. Some dumb asses think adverts should be put everywhere. Commercial free telivision? Sure, it's called cable, just pay us $40/month and... right!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Putting ads in football games/racing games/etc... would be fine with me, because now days, most stadiums are covered with ads, and race cars look like rolling road advertisements. However, if they start cramming ads into games like EQ, neverwinter nights, etc... I'm gonna be angry. I don't want to have to look at ads while I'm playing. I want to enjoy the game. And if they have banner ads in ANY game, I'm gonna be really pissed.
Perhaps you don't wear designer clothes, I know I don't. it would be interesting to have divined the reason why geeks tend not to wear designer. Is it because we're too tight? Do we view such purchases on a more intellectual level than the "peacocks" (i.e. by giving my money to designer labels, I am just increasing the designers ability to attrct mates)? Are we not so interested in attracting mates or perhaps we would rather divert the effort (money, energy) into other mate attracting strategies [And this may be more subtle than just thinking that Chicks dig Athlons].
Rich
Rich
Or. more interestingly why can't another manufacturer hijack the virtual Jordan to wear theirs? That could lead to a fantastically entertaining fight between the trainer companies.
I really hope this is the subtle-stlye advertisement used in movies. Recent movies (last few years) haven't got the right idea any more; like in Thomas Crown Affair when the Pepsi One gets chugged.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
Yep, I'd expect, unless they got really smart, that the advertising would be paid for before printing. Maybe I'm wrong, I didnt read the artice ;)
For me, the reverse seems to be the risk: If gamers care about the product placement, they won't like the game.
I'm more of an RPG/RTS kinda gamer myself (i.e. not the "extreme snowboarding" or Crazy Taxi type of games that seem to be the target here), but if Starcraft II comes out with Coke logos, I'm gonna be really put off by it.
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This isn't new even for EA. This quote from the article surprised me:
The quote is not true. I used to play FIFA 95, a soccer game released by EA in 94 or 95 (I don't remember now), and it had a lot of in-game advertising. It wasn't only the usual advertisements on the sides of the playing field. When you scored a goal, the game stopped for some seconds while logos of sponsors appeared in a box in the center of the screen. If I remember correctly, some of the sponsors were Panasonic and Adidas.
Since FIFA 95, EA Sports has released a soccer game every year (FIFA 96, 97, ..., 2001). I haven't played any of them, but I believe they do have some advertising. EA President doesn't seem very well informed, really.
Crazy Jamal's used rocket cycles... Conklin's burlesque...
They made the install interesting anyway...
Also, Fifa games have had adds on the stadium sidelines for a long time.
That said, it's embarassing that a sports game or a racing game requires ads to make it look real, because the sports world is so ad-saturated. However, in some genres, ads would look stupid. It's hard to imagine ads for real products in American McGee's Alice, Ultima Online, or a Star Wars game. So there's hope.
In Japan only, Final Fantasy 9 was sponsored by Coca-Cola, and they had a 15 and 30 second TV ad that showed the characters running through one of the major towns in the game chasing after a shining Coke bottle cap. TheGIA has the commercials, sorry, no direct links. (URL is www.thegia.com)
...of this bullshit. I play games to get away from reality. Yeah, sure I stock up on the cheetos, pizza hut, and coke for LAN parties, that doesnt mean I need these damn advertisements in my games to reinforce that I need to go buy some. Every aspect of my life is covered in ads, spam, junkmail, signs, telemarketers, etc ad nauseum. When I get home from work and want to relax, I dont want to be bombarded as if I'm walking the aisles of Walmart where every square inch of the store, up, down and on all sides there are stickers, flashing lights, intercoms going off etc telling me about this "great deal! (tm)" that I should take advantage of. As far as games go, the ONLY ones I can think of that ads would be actually beneficial to all parties are sports games. Nascar and football games alone would be really realistic to actually see ads in the game, but only as static banners or some such in the background as you would actually see at a sporting event (ok, maybe the Goodyear blimp too..). But when I start seeing ads for websites or other marketing bozo trash, it ruins it for me and actually pisses me off to the extreme. Case in point. Look at the starting spawn points for both the terrorist and the counterterrorists of the new CS 1.1 map de_dust2. A permanent "spraypaint" on the walls for I think www.gamecenter.com. CS is one of the more realistic FPS games out, (though not quite up to par with Rogue Spear, but realistic has to be balanced with fun gameplay and Rogue Spear, well, IMO sucks). Whatever game I'm playing I want to be apart of the story, to make it very immersive. As far as CS goes, I dont recall seeing any CNN terrorism stories where theres a large "Pepsi: Choice of a new generation" in the background.
You would think ad companies would realize this. Most sports and racing games have people who put ads where they belong in each stadium/track. Check out just about any game by EA sports, people create addons that give the game realistic shoes and such. It obvious that some portions of the gaming community would actually welcome such ads as long as they are realistically done
The problem seriously starts when the advertising outweighs the content, which has already happened in the print world. Anecdotal example - while waiting for an appointment somewhere, I picked up a magazine (GQ, as it were) and flipped through. Within seconds I began counting ads versus non-ad pages. In the first 120 pages of the magazine, there were only 17 pages that had content, and four of those were the table of contents and the staff listing, which still had margin ads. We're not just talking full-page ads here - some of them ran for six pages!
TV's well on its way to such ad bloat - time how many minutes the show is on-screen the next time you watch a half-hour sitcom. I'd hate to think of something similar happening to games.
Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
Could this happen to a game? hard to say. TV is very advertising-dependent, and game development seems more like movie-making. But check this out (from the story): Here's EA straight-up planning to use advertising as a prime source of game funding. Will this be reflected in better contracts with content producers? Yeah
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Was just wondering if anyone else remembers the old PC game 'Avoid the NOID'. It placed you as a pizza delivery guy that had to dodge the NOID (an advertising characater from Dominos' Pizza), as you ascended a into an apartment building..It was kinda' tough...I should see if I can find that somewhere....
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
In the next Zelda, we will be fighting a giant ogre brought to you by Microsoft. :-) Kinda symbollic....
I remember playing Wipeout on the Playstation when I didn't even know what Red Bull was.
It will make car racing games more realistic. Instead of driving under a big tyre on pit straight that says "Dunlopo", you get real brand names.
Who cares if advertising is on the walls of 3D games? It's on all the walls in Real Life (tm). But if I ever hit a puzzle in System Shock 2 where the only way to continue is to rewire the door lock to spell "Coke is It", I'll start fighting.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
no different than movies, etc. I could care less if it keeps good games coming.
I guess it's the same way marketers think product placement works in movies. I could just be weird, but I find that advertisements in movies detract from the experience. When the hero pauses to takes a drink of cool, refreshing Pepsi before running off to save the world, it serves as a jarring reminder that you are just watching a movie and that you just saw an advertisement. Advertisements are harder to notice when done well, but often it's just too obvious. Charlie's Angels and Austin Powers tried to shove a brand name in your face every few minutes. On the other hand, while you probably remember the Nokia phones from The Matrix, that placement was much more subtle and didn't detract from the "illusion." You've heard of bad acting? Bad product placement can be just as annoying.
I saw a comment from someone at Survivor saying that people don't even notice the product placement in that show. I can't be the only one who has wondered how much of that million dollars came from Mountain Dew, Adidas, Doritos, and Target.
Did you really not notice the way the phone Keanu drops off the building hung in mid-air for half a second so you could read the exact brand and model number?
Of course the nastiest thing about mobile phone use in The Matrix is the way the whole team use Nokias, except the backstabbing turncoat who has a Motorola!
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
yes, I'm serious about the Motorola thing - its a Motorola mr602, with the same spring-loaded customization job they did to the Nokias. Did you know that it was actually The Matrix that invented that springing thing? Nokia liked it so much they only afterwards launched the 7110 model that is based on the customised 6210 that Neo has.
And yes, I do have an unusual habit of noticing which mobile phones actors use. Call me sad, but there you go.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Doh! I mean Neo has a Nokia 6650, not 6210; that is an entirely different model.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
1. Game designers tend to be very protective of their
creative control. Allowing advertisers in on placement
and form of objects in the game also opens the door to
them being able to influence creative control. I could
also limit a popular aspect of games in which they parody
or mock real life products or services.
2. There is already a precendent set in console games
and Anime, where the creators replace the name of commonly
known products with a parody name or idea to create
filler or maintain the "commonness" of retail items.
So "Sony" TVs become "Soby" TVs or somesuch; and games
like the preview of "Sonic Adventure 2" are littered
with ads for other games from that design group, or plays
on popular characters and concepts from past games.
(Side note: I noticed the ads in Sonic2 because I was
watching my roomate playing thru the preview;
He didn't notice any of the ads because he was too
busy playing the game)
Some RPGs or games set in modern environments might
benefit a little by being able to create more realistic
settings by tying them to items familiar to the users.
But anything beyond simple background application would
prove to be a distraction from the main purpose of the
game, which is to take your mind somewhere away from the
completely mundane realism of everyday life.
And yes, movies have been doing this for years;
If you want to see a near perfect example of how to get
away with overactive product placement,
rent "The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle".
But I hope I won't have to *PAY* for that game on top of that.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
The reasoning behind this is simple: Branding serves to increased the percieved value of a product without increasing it's real value. Thus a strong brand allows a manufacturer to sell a product for more money than competing products of the same quality which have a weaker brand.
As a consumer, buying strongly branded products means paying more for the same level of quality.
As an example of this, consider the fact that Levi's jeans have increased it's price to about 10 times it's price in the beginning of this century (already corrected for inflation). This information was taken from an article in "The Economist" but i don't remember in which issue (the initial value was taken from a expenses form of a correspondent in the US)
Same reason you pay for newspapers/magazines/etc. The advertising subsidizes it. IOW, if the ads weren't there, it'd cost a lot more. For example, without advertising, your average newspaper would cost around $5 (rough estimate). But add in ads and you get a 90% discount.
You only really use a newspaper for one day, and it comes out daily. Nobody is going to pay $35 a week for the newspaper when they could use the Internet or TV to get their news.
Games are another story. You pay for them and have them basically till you no longer want them. I don't know how many ads they plan on squeezing in a game, but even if it results in a $10 price drop I doubt the consumers will see any difference in game prices. The companies already know people are paying for the games. Why change the price when people are already paying it?
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
Yes, they are, and I cringe every time I see them. Just because something is common doesn't make it "right".
This just proves that advertiser's are clueless about their audiences. It's the reason we have so many lousy commercials on TV.
Don't you know... they always stop using Roman numerals after 3 so that it doesn't confuse people.
--
Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
I mean, we're forced to have ads in the games, why should we have to pay to get ads??
Same reason you pay for newspapers/magazines/etc. The advertising subsidizes it. IOW, if the ads weren't there, it'd cost a lot more. For example, without advertising, your average newspaper would cost around $5 (rough estimate). But add in ads and you get a 90% discount.
---
The AOL-Time Warner-Microsoft-Intel-CBS-ABC-NBC-Fox corporation:
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
imho, the sponsor stuff in tony hawk helped add a lot to the atmosphere of the game. I would much rather ride around on a birdhouse or powell deck, than just get to choose between 'deck a or deck b'
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
I don't see a problem with having ads in games as long as they are part of the scenery. I.E., billboards in racing, coke machine on a corner, something that you would normally see in really life. By adding realism, it could improve the gameplay. I think the problems would occur when the ads are too there, such as a scenery composed entirely of billboard, or putting ads where they don't belong, such as a character wearing a coke tee-shirt in everquest.
There is also the possibility that this could bring down the price of games, if game companies use the extra profits from advertising to lower the cost of games, making them more accessible, thus gaining a bigger advertising base. Sounds like a impossible idea, but odder things have happened.
Sig!
Ok. Finally, the apropriate story in which to let out a little discovery of mine. Behold Morfit. Now before going off and checking this out, I really need to warn you , that these people shit me on many and varied levels. /win/system directory, that in fact is it's Ad-jects advertising dll. Notice the half-cunning attempt to hide it by renaming it to sound like a OS file. It also creates a key in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServices called mSYS32 which points to it's morfitwebentrance.exe file (presumably to nuke any attempt to reclaim your homepage). And *from memory* it installed a ket to point to the SYS32.EXE file.
Morfit make a verry half arsed 3D engine (which they seem to imply is up there with QuakeIII & Unreal... my ass), which the developer can download and drop into his or her app as a "free" 3D engine for use in games. The catch is, if one sells it:$20,000. *OR* One can give it away, and if the developer gives it away, it can contain morfits various advertisements, and morfit splits the advertising proceeds with the game dev. Morfit then goes and markets the game.
The game can be coded in Delphi,VB(ugh),C++ or some whacky little lang called euphoria. It all sounds too good to be true. Get your mates, grab a slab , design some levels, code up some simple code via the simple API and get rich, and it really is too good to be true.
Because if you allow morfit to continue what they are doing, evil WILL propogate (in my opinion). Allow me to explain this heavy accusation I make. If one downloads the first of their published games , the ingeniously named "Secret mission", you will discover a nasty little suprise. *IF* you install it, it will automatically change your homepage in IE (dunno about Netscape) to a rather ugly little advertising portal that I won't advertise the adress off. It's really not that good IMHO. Oh and it won't let you change it back. Gotchya.
But that's the obvious bit. It at least tells you it's doing that. It installs a little file called (from memory, I may be wrong) "SYS32.EXE" in your
I have noted that these files do seem to talk to the net, but in the absence of a decent packet sniffer for Win2000, I can not verify that these are spyware programs. But eitherway, you *must* be clear on the fact that these programs are installed by stealth, and run stealthily doing , I think, some sort of network activity. F*k knows what.
And this is what the budding game maker can do to his loyal future fans if he/she wan'ts. I don't buy it at all, and it pisses me off, but I can't seem to contact the dude who put together OptOut, for him to investigate em, so yeah, it's pretty unknown that this is happening. Anyway folks. Check it out if you want, and kick a fuss if you think it's uncool. But be carefull. Those morfit 'demo' games are trojaned. It's stealthy so it's uncool. Simple.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Mind you, the whole post-mod Cyberpunk thing lends it's self verry well to advertising. But it's got a nifty little irony to it.
One could not imagine a Neo-Tokyo distopia *Without* the incessant "MEGACORP-3000 WE OWN YOU" neon's everywhere , It's part of the whole future-capitalist gloom of it all. But stick in a "Microsoft Windows 2000 We owblahblah...." (for instance) and sudenly the advertised product is now symbolically associated with the verry reason why said Neo-Tokyo or whatever would be crap to live in.
It's a subtle irony, but I'd bet any well read SCI-FI geek would see it.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Frankly I think this stinks like day-old Kraft® Singles® -- which both taste great and are great for you! Now I can't even escape into a furious, fast-paced game of Final Fantasy XII© by visionary game developers Squaresoft® without being inundated by ads for cold, refreshing Coca-Cola® I'm putting my Dual Shock© controller away, packing up the Playstation2® and going outside to enjoy something that hasn't been commercialized. Hell, it'll do me good to get some Sun®
---
This kind of thing isn't even REAL whoring. Whole games have been built around, or turned over to particular brands or logos.
The pokemon game came before the other pokemon crap. (At least in Japan)
Anyhow, although I hate all aspects of Pokemon except some of the designs (particularly box art on some of the games, and the occasional poster...none of the ones you can buy at K-mart or whatnot, BTW, those all suck), and the games, I must admit, it is better than any other merchandising machine in that, if you're into that kind of thing, all aspects of it can stand on their own. The TV show (at least what I've seen of it) doesn't have the same "toy commercial" vibe that some other kids shows (Most notably two japanese shows currently running..."Zoids," and the Pokemon-inspired "Yu Gi Oh," ) have. The video games definitely don't. The cards are some of the best-designed, most attractive of all CCGs...WAY better than most incarnations of Magic. The toys are mostly not nearly so cheesy as those from franchises which were obviously and exclusively created specifically to sell toys (some might think that of the games, but there was enough of a delay that I'll give Nintendo the benefit of a doubt). The only merchandising monsters that even approach the quality of Pokemon are Disney, and all that Totoro crap. I think the quality of Disney animation in recent years, particularly anything to do with their perennially salable icons puts it below Pokemon, however.
However, if game companies start to put in game advertising in plaform games or the like, I'll barf, blow milk out of my nose, punch CowboyNeal, etc. The day I have to hit a Coco-Cola block in Super Mario 1024 is the day I lose respect for the gaming industry. True Gamers have honor. Game developers and publishers should have the same.
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
"While you load your saved game, why not load up on delicious Campbell's soup!"
"Great screen shot you just took. Speaking of screen shots, nothing takes shots like the new Kodak l33tz0r 3000 Camera!"
"Star Trek: Borg Invasion is loading, please wait. And now an advertisement from our sponsor, Microsoft..."
What about the Xbox version of the game? The "darkest evil in the universe" would be... the U.S. Government?!
I mean, we're forced to have ads in the games, why should we have to pay to get ads??
Look at cable (or satellite) TV. You pay (a lot) per month, and there's still advertisments (with the exceptions of the "premium" channels.
--
--
#nohup cat
This has been around in the movie industry for a while, now. I'm not at all suprized that game makers are picking up on it. For instance, remember E.T. and Resses Pieces? Blade Runner and Coca Cola? All paid for advertisements.
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Games will continue to be the same price for consumers, probably gonna suck even more.
Wanna know why? Well, before, if your game sucked, it was not bought, which meant you didn't make money. Now, with the infusion of other money, the "sucess" of a game isn't really dependent on how good it is.
I just can't wait...
Me and half of my dept just got "temporarily laid off" (i.e. we will hire you when the recession ends), so that might explain the hostility. Didn't get last weeks paycheck either... Naturally, management was immune to cuts, as a matter of fact, they added 3 company mercedes and a bmw, and the vp and pres, got a fucking $2 million bonus on top of that.
Word of advice to all employees - the end is near - steal shit like there is no tommorow!!!
Shoulda taken the laptop, Shoulda taken the laptop, Shoulda taken the laptop . . .
Oh well.
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Just putting 95 on a 486. . . They are kinda ammusing... Slashdot's a whole shitload more entertaining tho...
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Does anyone remember Johnson & Johnson's 'Tooth Protectors' for Atari 2600? How's that for some old school video game propaganda?
>>>
That is on it's way.... "Digital" satellite radio (by Sirus and XM) which is about to come out is subscription only...
Pay for radio? What the hell for? Who the hell actually listens to the radio except mindless pop loving teens? (I exclude here the one good radio station ever, but it is public radio anyway, they already ask for voulantary subscriptions). I assume that these subscription based satradio stations want to pull in as many people as possible which means marketing to the masses = pop, which you get on twelve other stations for free (plus those hilarious DJ's, Oh the jokes! Can they get any funnier?) Commercial radio has been dead for so long, the only place I hear it these days is when I go into a shopping center, and it reaffirms my hatred for it.
// It had been Fat's delusion for years that he could help people. --Philip K. Dick, Valis
I don't quite get why in Crazy Taxi it seemed "like a joke", you'd think there'd be Levi's and Pizza Hut's in a city, right?
I am a bad speler. Please ignore speling meestakes in me poast.
That's the GameBoy BIOS saying Nintendo. And the Sega BIOS saying "Produced by or under licesence of Sega Enterprises Ltd." Would you rather they not beautify the load screen and leave it as a nice black emptyness?
I am a bad speler. Please ignore speling meestakes in me poast.
If not, then you wouldn't know until you played it that a game pauses every 5 minutes to show you an ad for a fscking burger.
You miss the point. When this article was talking about product placement, they did not mean interruption based ads. They were talking about ads within the game itself - in a racing game, the car you're driving goes past a Coca-Cola billboard or the like. The article discussed the deal the game Cool Boarders made with companies like Motorola and Mountain Dew. I've played Cool Boarders many a time at my friends house. There were no interruptions to gameplay for an ad, and the only ones I remember, were a little Motorola logo on the start and finish banners, and maybe a billboard for Mountain Dew or something. This will not affect game play at all. I personally don't mind if the companies do this or not. I don't think they are effective or worth the companies money, however.
mmm...physics...
All these increasingly intrusive ads- 15 second "web commercials", in-game ads, those fscking half-page cnet ads- they're all part of our country's deeply held belief that one brand is better than another because it advertises more. The "cool" look is to wear clothes with enormous brand names on them. An excellent example is Nike. Nike shoes are made in a factory where workers get paid 14 cents per hour and cost at least twice as much as comparable "lesser brands." Yet people still pay hundreds of dollars to get to wear giant swooshes on their feet. This is our culture. There may be a bit of an uproar each time a brand gets closer to invading formerly private spaces, but it never stops them. These brands are celebrities in and of themselves. The product is secondary to the "image". Every bit of ground we give up to the brands is a bit of ground that we can never get back. The only way to fight the brands is (as usual, The Simpsons has an excellent episode about this) to stop paying attention to them. Shop at thrift stores and Payless. Don't buy things with enormous logos on them. True, this may be obvious to some of you geeks out there, but I'm sure at least one person reading slashdot now is wearing a Tommy Hilfiger shirt with a logo more than a foot tall. We must stop this now. Fight the brands!
Sleep: A completely inadequate substitute for caffeine.
i remember back in the day, we installed Star wars: xwing on a 486 back when 486's were cool, and what pops up? "Say hello to Neon." we looked at each other in confusion: wtf? turns out the .bat file which starts the game runs a .exe which shows the ad. after you exit that prog, the .bat file runs the actual .exe which starts the game. so,we edited the .bat file and took out the line that ran the ad's .exe.
they've been there, but not like that. that was the only time i've seen something like that. haven't seen it since. hope never to see it again.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
This has been in arcade games for years...
sulli
RTFJ.
What would you do if you could locate and modify the source images used to generate the ads? Make them a uniform color? Change them all to a camoflauge (sp?) pattern? Pr0n?
Seems to me with the collective knowledge and hacking skills out there, it probably wouldn't take too long for someone to circumvent these ads.
Any /.'ers know if this has already been done? Start sharing them around the 'net and who knows -- we might have new "skins" for games? Oh, right. DMCA -- would that apply here?
After reading though the article I had a sore neck from the marketing groups bashing me saying "This is the way it will be!". It seemed that the software developer's reaction to all of this was kept quite small. I would love to hear them talk about it as well to get their take.
I'm sure once they start getting told about how long it will take to program in the billboards and other such events and be able to keep them random. I can see the developers saying "Sure we can do this but it will push the time line back 'x' hours and the development cost will go up by 'y'." This might just have the company second guess their rates. I hope it might actually have companies stop trying to get in due to the additional costs that will be passed on for the advertising of "their" product.
It is times like this when I'm happy I play Blizzard games. Who ever heard of someone drinking Coke while on the battle field. Advertising like that would just be too obvious. I hope Blizz never bows down to this kind of crap.
Who knows what other places we'll see advertising pop up in the future
[This post brought to you by Taco Bell. Make a run to the border]
Keeping
Just curious, would the ads be say, on the walls of a map? or like on the startup screen? or something... any ideas? surely they wouldnt interrupt gameplay!
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
Yes, and as most people know it covers a big deal of the production costs...so that your fancy magazine only costs about 3$ instead of 6$.
So Yorrike was right stating that he wants the price down then.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Before long, things could get out of hand, with whole games and television series telling children that they have to 'catch 'em all!(tm)', and that if they don't purchase every last related toy they'll never be a 'Pokemon master'(tm)!
Then, once they've bought all 150, they'll bring out another 150! It would be terrible!
--
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
I hope it doesn't turn out like the Super Bowl and some of these events that sell *everything*..
"Hello, and welcome to the Tostito's half time report. Wow, did you see that e-trade half time show presented by MTV? Uh huh, Tampax was there.."
I wouldn't mind having ads in games...I wish that game companies would stop advertising the game and game systems themselves inside the game! I've alread bought the game and the system; I don't need to be reminded of those things every time I play. By that I mean not constantly telling me that I'm playing "NBA 2k" on SEGA brand SEGA genesis. I mean, remember the original game boy and how it said "nintendo" when you turned it on? It was annoying because you'd have to watch that every time!(And it took a while.) Then there was sega genesis...the EA sports games always had real long intro scenes. You'd see "SEGA Genesis" followed by "Licensed by SEGA", etc. as if I didn't know which system I was using or what game I was playing.
Got friends?
non-intrusive billboard-style advertising, what's the problem again?
we've had corporate logos and such in games for YEARS, the fact that it's now paid advertising merely means more funding to create better games, and I'll bet you it's a hell of a lot more effective than ad banners, and it doesn't eat up bandwidth, and again, it's non-intrusive, and infact could add another element to the game... I mean say you've got a bright red coke sign, if your opponent in black is standing right infront of it, you've got a perfect target, right? (actually this is a real example... there's a bright red sign in the Action Quake2 map urban, and people are constantly hooking on to it on the server I play on and giving me a perfect target)
I never got the point of invasive ads at all; I get very annoyed at being interrupted, and end up associating frustration and irritation with the product in question.
Done well, product placement can be pretty good though. For a nice example see Syndicate Wars - it had clips of 'Manga Video' movies playing on billboards, and the overall effect was excellent, very Blade Runner-esque. Made me want to buy the videos advertised too.
the income from ads will be used to reduce the price to the consumer...
yeah.
sure.
Your attitude might be justified if it were down to goodwill on the part of publishers, but it isn't; it's a question of market forces. The games industry isn't a monopoly or a cartel, you know. A publisher that didn't pass on the savings would be at a disadvantage to one that did.
Perhaps all the skins of the FPSs could be changed to well known commercial characters?
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
- Piracy is on the rise, or at least remaining very high. As internet connections become faster it is also becoming easier to download games off the internet.
- Game advertising does not have to subtract from the game and if used intelligently can add to the game!
- If your income depends solely on advertising, you no longer need a distributer or publisher... no more middle-men.
The big problem with the model of having advertising as part of game content from which you recieve your sole income is that your audience is LIMITED. At first glance it would seem that you'd actually reach a wider audience by giving away your game for free however what people fail to realize is that only the "hardcore" (I use that term loosely in this context) gamers would actually visit the website and download an entire game.
The other problem is that since there is no publisher any advertising for the game is the developer's responsibility.
Ultimately though, when I play a game and I see a billboard, I'd much rather see a Coke ad on it as opposed to a made up Cola.
''Bottom line,'' notes Sean Wargo, a senior analyst with NPD Intelect, ''gamers are a focused and dedicated consumer segment that is ripe for the picking.''
This attitude towards people is really annoying and insulting. We're not fruit, and we're not something to just be harvested. We'll end up really being that way sometime soon though if this continues.
How can you say:
"This is already the best racing game for its physics and realism"
when you can't even flip your car over? Where's the realism in that?
I also personally find if I run my car into a wall at 250kph I have a little bit of trouble continuing a race.
Realism. phhht.
--
gadgetophile.com
Sounds like a really good reason to patch your media. Don't like those commercials? Rip it to your hard drive, patch & off you go, no more commercials. Too bad it will come to this. It makes me upset to spend $8.50 on a movie only to be bombarded with commericials at the beginning and fifteen more minutes of previews. I can't wait for that feature to pop up in the games I love to play!
This would make for some irritating (but effective) advertising. Companies would pay big $$ for ads in the most popular games.
:-P)
I must say, though I dislike ads as much as most, this is a very good idea.
Now, while playing your favorite shoot-em-up multiplayer game, you'll be forced to look at a 10-second ad for some new snack at the local FoodMartStore (tm).
(In the process, get killed 3 times by the other players!
This brings to mind an old (and somewhat) related rant of mine that I've been carrying on since high school.
I've always made it a point never to buy anything with a logo (e.g. Nike swooshtika cap, GAP clothes with "GAP" splashed loudly all over them, etc.), because there has always been a double standard involved that has bothered me. Why pay (besides the obvious reason of being accepted into the "cool crowd") to advertise someone else's product? Don't those companies pay OUT big bucks to have their logos/propoganda splashed all over TV/billboard/media to get people to buy their products?
Now, granted, the Nike cap is a Nike product, but that's not where they're making their money! The $15 cap (made for 4 cents at a profit of $14.96 thanks to underprivilidged nations) PALES in comparison to the $120 pair of shoes (made at 25 cents at a profit of $119.75 thanks to underprivilidged nations), which someone might just be more likely to buy after seeing me looking all fly in my sporty Nike ballcap.
So before you purchase something with someone else's name splashed loudly all over it, think for a moment about who should be paying who? You'd be smarter to think up your own design (CS clan logo, phone number, etc) and have it embroidered on a product and advertise yourself. Heck! You could even mass produce them and maybe get some poor saps to pay to advertise your clan!
Bugma
-= Irony (n.) - Oddworld (def.- game about "consumerism gone bad") being ported *exclusively* to the Xbox
Try Diablo one. THAT's what Diablo II would have been, if it hadn't sucked.
;)
The Baldur's Gate games are an attempt at an RPG for the PC; a weak attempt, but like democracy, better than everything else that's been tried.
Diablo was an action adventure game, a fact which has escaped many people. It is in NO sense a role playing game. I've been playing Diablo 1 on battle.net for almost 3 years now, and I can assure you of this. Diablo characters are not roleplayed at all, they are treated like avatars of the players. I've met maybe 5 roleplayng Diablo players, ever.
Diablo 2 is an action game much like Diablo 1, except with all the fun and challenge removed. Whee. I don't feel like re writing it all here, and it's offtopic enough as it is. But if you're interested, here's my take on The real reasons D2 sucks
And of course, if we're talking about truly innovative and cool games, nothing more need be said than, "Black & White".
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
If that was product placement, it sure failed like hell. There was no glimpse of the logo or anything to let you know they were Nokias. The fact of the matter is, product placement is only effective when it's blatant; either blatantly in your face, or blatantly saturated so you subconsciously get used to seeing it everywhere. And either type is extremely annoying.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
I loved Baldur's Gate, it's a great game. It's the closest to being a computer role playing game that any game had gotten to that point. However, even saying that, it's not really a true roleplaying game. My paraphrase was from the old political saying, "Democracy is the worst system, unless you count all those other systems that have been tried from time to time." The quote is in favor of Democracy.
BG & BG2 are great games, but they, like Diablo, still have a long way to go before they are truly roleplaying games. The D&D license was cool (the fire dragon movie clip for TSR ruled), and the game engine was nice, but it still lacks what a true computer rpg will have to one day have - really, really, REALLY good AI. In fact, true AI would be required - you have to have a sentient DM to have a real roleplaying experience. =)
Cheers,
Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
You want to get away from real life? Read a book...
You want to have fun with your friends? Practice a sport...
You want to whine whine whine about the subject? Just keep your actual life style...
Well, THAT tells me about zero useful information.
There were once no ads online. Now there are. If more people read books, I can guarantee you there would be ads on book covers and ads halfway through the pages. And playing sports, one is subjected to an amazing number of nike and adidas logos.
Please, give me a break. No one lifestyle is better than any other. And I feel I have a right to complain, having paid for internet service and having nowhere agreed that that service in any way involved my having to look at ads, and now it's being forced upon me. Before long, there will be nowhere left to escape from them on the internet, which is why I recommend everyone use ad-blocking software (for as long as it remains legal, considering the way corporations currently have the reins of the government).
Yes, reading a book is fun. I've been reading for pleasure all my life. It's a great way to "escape". But the internet isn't an escape, you doofus - it's how I stay in touch. News, email, chat, discussions, research. Who needs Napster and other timewasters when there's so much to LEARN?
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Of course the nastiest thing about mobile phone use in The Matrix is the way the whole team use Nokias, except the backstabbing turncoat who has a Motorola!
Damn, I can't tell if you're joking, I need to rewatch the scene where Cypher ditches his cell in the trash to see for myself. That little Motorola rat bastard!! j/k
But actually, even though there were good shots of the phones (as I now realize on taking a careful rewatch), it still never registered on me, and I think I know why.
Some things are so homogenized that all examples of the art are the same, at least to the uninitiate. To most everyone, any facial tissue is a "kleenex". This is regardless of the fact that to some people, certain other facial tissues are far superior.
To me, all phones are alike. They all do the same thing, and in my experience, there's no real difference in how or how well they do it. To those who know and care about them, they might notice branding on cellphones. To me, it's just "a phone", a prop used in the movie. And to be honest, I think Nokias might be what a crowd of underground hacker-ish guerillas might use, but that's just in my uneducated opinion.
I think the only time product placement really hurts a movie is when it's done at the expense of plot or believability. If Neo had paused in Bullet Time, taking a break from grappling with the Agent so he could suck down a cold, refreshing Coca-Cola, then that would be stupid. But we don't see anyone screaming about product placement when we have that long scene showing all the military hardware Neo is carrying (the opening-the-trenchcoat-"whoah" scene).
Product placement, to rephrase, is only bad when it is done to the extent that it detracts from plot or believability. That is to say, it is only bad when it is used effectively (because if it just blends in to the background, no one will notice it). I think some people should get off their high horses and realize that some things need to be included for believability.
However, I will check up on that motorola cell for Cypher. If so, that IS kinda low. =P
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Adds Heather Berry, editor at Happypuppy.com, a gaming fan site, ''If gamers like the game, they don't care about the product placement.''
So I guess I'm in the minority there, too. Wow, do I ever have the market cornered on THAT one! But, seriously, what I'm wondering is, will Gamespy and the other mass information and preview "outlets" start warning us about ad-riddled games before we buy? If not, there will soon be a need for a game ad warning site, where they list the newer titles and how invasive the advertising is. With that on our side, it will be possible to boycott the companies doing this. If not, then you wouldn't know until you played it that a game pauses every 5 minutes to show you an ad for a fscking burger.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
The article mentions streaming ads off a Doubleclick server onto in-game billboards. If that server goes down, will we still be able to play the game? If it gets slow, will the game slow down or freeze waiting for the ad to load?
I can see lots of script kiddies not liking this idea and attacking the ad servers for their games.
Take for example NHL2001, the best hockey game ever. That game would be even cooler if, instead of having SOLO (should be KOHO) sticks and made up ads on the hockey walls, and other things like that, they had the real products. Many users even make graphic mods for that game and others like it to 'fix' the fake products/ads. So, for a game like NHL2001, I think ads would be great.
//FIXME: Bad
Me a Mario!! I shop at the GAP, and jump a super high in my Nikes. I have to save Princess Britney Spears from the clutches of the evil coke can, but need to collect all the Pepsi Products before I have enough energy to take on the darkest evil in the universe.
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
I mean, we're forced to have ads in the games, why should we have to pay to get ads??
AC comments get piped to
The problem with this music is that it is easy listening, not much content. I will not condemn this, everybody has the right to choose the music/video clip s/he likes. But since this kind of music sold in the past, it will be hyped again and again. Still i couldn't care, as long as i don't have to listen to it. I am a music lover, apart from some genres i like music, the only problem is that this music gets 90% of the time on mtv&co, since I prefer alternative music, i am left to 1 or 2 hours of music videos of my favorite music. After cutting the shitload of bad metal bands out this usually means only 2 or 3 good songs a week. I just would like to see a more evenly matched program, instead of britney spears 6 times a day.
Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I really don't see why radio stations NEED to spend so much money that they need 20 commercials in a row to support themselves. If I was setting up a worldwide radiostation, I'd do it the same way mp3.com has (ar at least similarly). I'd play only songs that I wouldn't have to pay anything for (there are plenty of big time artists that would do so just for the radioplay, not to mention the tons of up-and-comming artists).
It could potentially offset higher software prices. It could also give developers more money thus potentially leading to better design teams and better games.
;)
And with any luck, it will mean less Ads when I surf the web
RA7
-
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" - RWE
It was perfect product placement, after getting hit with the billboard, and dying, the next time you would watch the billboard to see it was going to fall. Plus a Pizza Ad in TMNT made sense because the ate pizza, a coke add in a medievil game makes no sense and is just retarted. Ads are just dandy if the dont subtract from the game. And Oh Yeh, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles rocked, now I just need a GBA version of TMNT
Can I pay to get rid of the ads? I don't mind ads being there for cheapskates, but I'm willing and able to pay the full price of game for it to be ad free.
Imagine playing a close game of UT, and just as you're about to make the winning shot, a Pizza Hut banner starts blocking your shots until you order stuffed-crust!
If that ad makes you lose the match, I'd hate to be the guy wearing a pizza suit trying to lure you into the store!
Dumb rambling idiot? I don't see you selling any records dude...
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evil adrian
That is what's important, actually. Musicians make a living off of selling records. And obviously, if they're selling records, they're making music that people like.
I'm glad you feel the need to lash out at the uber-culture and mock Britney Spears; do you even know what she sounds like, or do you just bash her because everyone else in the world likes her music?
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evil adrian
I think we just bash her because she's yet another tool of industry, and she sucks, just like all the clones before her and all the clones to come.
Are you going to back this up with any evidence or are you just spouting this because you think it's "cool" to bash her because she's a mainstream artist? WHO is she cloning? HOW is she a tool? Enough with the hot air, start convincing me.
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evil adrian
I'd be out of ammo most of the time... :)
As far as I'm concerned, I'll NEVER buy a game that has in-game advertisements that are of any sort of intrusive or interruptive nature (IE, anything more blatant than playing a baseball game that may have, say, a Coca-Cola logo on the outfield wall).
I do not believe that in-game ads will work, as people who pay money for a product do not expect to have to "sit through commercials" to play. And you know that it will go that way, even though they may be unobtrusive and uninterruptive at first... Marketers live for the scenario of locking you in a chair with your eyes forced open and locked on their ad. Internet banner advertising, which is relatively unobtrusive, in their minds has "failed" and even now they are implimenting MORE obtrusive, interruptive and annoying internet advertising.
Unless game publishers start giving games away, I don't believe the public will accept ANY KIND of interruptive advertising in the game. It's a catch 22... I dont' think the marketers will go for non-interruptive ads, and I don't think the public will long tolerate games (that cost upwards of $50-60 a pop, which is on average 2-3 times the cost of a VHS or DVD movie, which the public so far has not tolerated interruptive ads in) that feature interruptive ads.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
"As if gamers actually pay attention to surroundings in the game while playing. You couldn't even ask me the color of the sky in the last level of Quake I played, how the heck am I going to remember what product a billboard displayed?"
You are, of course correct. Which is why this scheme, as stated in the article, WILL NOT WORK! What will happen is that someone will try invasive, interruptive type ads that FORCE you to see it. That's the only scheme the marketers will ultimately go for.
And hopefully, it will cause the sales of wahtever game that incorporates such advertising to plunge. After all, wouldn't you be pissed off if you were playing Quake V only to have your game frozen just as you were about to frag your opponent to make you watch a Nike ad?
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
So what is the Nokia phone in The Matrix?
Advertising in games has been going on since the days of the Spectrum and C64.
Action Biker was basically a big advert for KP Skips
Mr Wimpy...One big advert for Wimpy restaurants (Like McDonalds but served on plates)
Adding advertisments to game worlds such as everquest? Ok ok, so Everquest isn't much of a fantasy world...in fact it's just a glorified monster whack, but non-the-less, I couldn't stand to be in a perpetual online FANTASY world with Coca-Cola banners. How idiotic are these people, and wouldn't it be that much more idiotic if the videogame publishers/developers actually put these in?
OK, so EQ is a game that is not suited well to advertising (especially since you pay a subscription rate for it). So maybe instead of in-game advertising they flash a banner at the bottom of hte logon screen.
Really though, the prime market for this kind of advertising is Electronic Arts and their EA Sports line of games. Just about every one has tons of prime advertising real estate reading for the taking. And IMHO, if they put up billboards and banners at ballparks and race tracks in-game, that just adds to the realism.
One of my favorite games a few years ago was a Formula 1 racing sim (can't remember who made it). But not only did they get the looks of the cars and GPS info for the tracks just right, they also made sure to get the same advertising in the same places on the track. It not only added a level of realism, it actually made the game a little easier for me because I was already fmailiar with the tracks from television. So I already knew to begin braking and turn left at the Foster's banner because of the hairpin coming up (or whatever).
Now you'll have doubleclick permanently installed on your computer routing you ads for the local mega chain pizza joint. Lovely! Anyone want to bet they won't be collecting your private information for that trick?
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
Is this evolutionary pressure to develop regional encoding on all games?
...Paranoid Pentapod
All I ask is a warm bed, a kind word, and UNLIMITED POWER
It is a good thing that this seems to be focused on consoles. I will get annoyed when my beloved PC Games become inundated with advertising...
The only PC Game I have ever seen with ads was this FREE multiplayer strategy game I played for a few weeks. This was years back, I don't remember the name... There were ads while the game was loading and the game was set in a stadium, with a few ads on the wall of the stadium. That wasn't too bad because the game was supported through those ads...
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Try Baldur's Gate II... It's what Diablo II would be if Diablo II didn't suck.
There is still some good work going on... The aforementioned BGII, a nice RTS called Sacrifice, very innovative, all the mods for Half-Life (a great game in its own right)...
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Or 'This plasma turret deployed in part by: Pepsi, generation next!'
But seriously, I've been known to use a website address as a name in online games. Nothing like sony.com, mostly slashdot.org, progress.org, or junkbusters.org. I figure if anyone visits and learns anything the name is more useful than something like "Sir Fragsalot {SC}" But I sometimes get screamed at for advertising a site. Players have used such inflamatory terms as "fucking gay." My guess is that when ads go into games, they'll do a very good job of telling people which products and companies to hate intensely.
This is pretty good idea. Instead of us paying for the software (ok i know, but we ARE supposed to pay for it ;) ) , the companies would pay for thir ads and software would be free. I wouldnt mind half-life for free, if there was a coke logo on some walls.
It's actually interesting that you these Interplay games as examples of games that are still worth playing, because they both had an unskippable advert after you installed it (for another Interplay game).
Graspee
"Smith And Wesson shotguns! As seen in Quake IV!"
-Henry
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
1) Most gamers are gamers on mid-budget macines because they don't have enough money to buy mr. UGM
2) Unless their really well designed, most gamers will filter them out like they do banner ads.
3) By the time one gets a game, many of the new products advertised will already be out of date.
4) If they advertise some steay product like coke, that person is not likely to stop what their doing, go to the store, and buy a coke
5) I don't want advertisements on my games unless I can get the game for a few dollars less and even then, its iffy.
6) How do the companies know if the advertising is working? Are they going to look at all your hidden in-house video cameras to see if their buying their product.
7) Advertising leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred is the path to the dark side.
8) The advertising companies already have enough influence in my life, why should they get more.
9) It will more likely benefit big companies then smaller ones.
A) Bill gates will find a way to monopolize the market.
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You stupid bastard, you don't have no arms left. It's just a flesh wound.
if you didnt have ads in newspapers they'd be $5 instead of 75c. 75c for a daily newspaper, what kind of drugs are you on and can I have some. The most I've ever seen for a newspaper is 50c. Where are you at, California, where prices are so inflated that you have lost touch of reality.
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You stupid bastard, you don't have no arms left. It's just a flesh wound.
And that at breaks that atmophere of the game at all (I have no problem with games looking more real, but FF with an ad for almost anything would ruin the atmosphere) I'd be tempted to repay you for breaking my atmosphere by not buying whatever your advertising and telling my friends "X comapany dosen't want you to have a good gaming exprience" and any ad in a MMPORPG would make me very mad (One of those people who insist or RP'ing inside the game)
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"-Unknowen
I remember one odd thing in the game. At one point you walk by a big Pizza Hut sign, then some enemies attack you by knocking it off the wall on to you.
Not exactly the best product placement...
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The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
Racing games with billboards which happen to advertise a product isn't a problem. Tony Hawk 2 has an unholy amount of branding in it, however it fits that skating feel.
However if they put ads into games like everquest or quake, that ruins the feel of the game. It's cool when maildaemon runs up to you in nethack, it's not cool when the Nokia salesmen runs up to you.
This isn't really a new concept, and I think that as long as any advertising is used tastefully and, most essentially, FITS IN with the gaming environment, there is no problem. Any game set in a realistic modern environment, for instance, could benefit from having realistic advertising in that environment (billboards, etc.). However, if these companies start including ads that disrupt the game environment, that's a different story entirely - but with the importance of having a game sell well and the abundance of Internet review sites to forewarn potential customers of irritating advertising in a game, I doubt we'll see many companies trying that...especially not after the first attempt or two fails spectacularly... ;)
DennyK
I'm not a big gamer, but a lot of the sport games that I play have had sponser adds in them for some time now. As long as they keep it to a realistic level then it shouldn't impede on the experience and as many have said it will only increase realism.
Also, some commented that they have already bought the game, why should they have to watch adds. Ever watch cable? I pay $40 a month for that crap and the adds there are very intrusive.
Don't go RIAA on this one, if you embrace things by providing positive feedback then you can help controll them in a good way. Don't just fight something you can't defeat, try to help steer it in a direction that is mutually benificial.
http://monkeyserver.com --- weeeeee
In my opinion if I'm paying $60 for a game and/or $15/month I don't want a single add in the game, but if the price drops for games with adds then I'm cool with it.
OTOH what if there was ONE price WITH ads and another WITHOUT ads... which one would more people choose?
Now THAT would be interesting.
SmileeTiger
Adding advertisments to game worlds such as everquest? Ok ok, so Everquest isn't much of a fantasy world...in fact it's just a glorified monster whack, but non-the-less, I couldn't stand to be in a perpetual online FANTASY world with Coca-Cola banners. How idiotic are these people, and wouldn't it be that much more idiotic if the videogame publishers/developers actually put these in? I'm thinking we're only a few steps away from having advertisments beamed into our dreams (ala futurama).
A different kind of animal
They make PERFECT sense, and I've been saying so for years.
;)], why don't they pay an insanely small amount (in comarison) of money to have their logo on the (virtual) Tiger Woods in a golf game? It only makes PERFECT sense. Hell, someone like Smith & Wesson could make sure that a game like Deer Hunter 7 (or whatever its up to now) only uses S&W guns, thus further promoting their product to the target audience (since we all know that people who would NEVER buy a S&W rifle would NEVER play a game like Deer Hunter).
Think about it. If you buy a baseball game, such as High Heat or Triple Play, who are you? Who is the target audience? Who would buy a baseball game at all? THE BASEBALL FANS. So, why don't advertisers notice that their ads will be displayed to the hardcore fans on almost every game they play?! Instead of seeing a "Chork Lite" sign above the Big Green Monster in fenway, why doesn't Citgo just pay a small fee so their target audience will see that sign in every game in (virtual) Boston.
Seriously, most of the people who are IN advertising, don't KNOW advertising. They complain about how web ads are not as effective as print or TV ads when web ads are the ONLY form of advertising that let them track EXACTLY how many people see the add, how many people clicked on the ad, and how many bought the product or service. You can't do that on TV. If Coke were to drop all Sprite ads from TV/Radio/Print/Web/Etc., Sprite would still sell due to nothing more than its omnipresence in any restaurant or store that sells Coke products (such as McDonalds). Consumers wouldn't suddenly switch to 7-Up if they've been drinking Sprite the entire time. Ads are overrated.
But back to the topic, putting ads in a game allow not only a better (and cheaper) way of these companies to reach their target audience, it also adds a GREAT deal of realism to the game. Think about it. Instead of seeing a simple cleat texture map on the player's feet, why don't Nike, Mizuno, and the rest pay for the ads and have their logos plastered on the feet of the virtual players. I mean, they'll pay a basketball star (such as Jordan) millions for wearing their sneakers, so why can't they pay a virtual Jordan to wear their sneakers, at no further cost to them?! Instead of just seeing a baseball player swinging a "bat", you could have the Louisville Slugger logo plastered on it, just like they are in life.
The whole point of the ads on the players is for a type of subliminal advertising. You see the logos on everything, the hats, bats, balls, sneakers, cars, field, helmets, etc., and the only purpose is so the fans, the people watching the game will see these "mini-ads" over and over during the course of the game or event. So if Nike is paying Tiger Woods millions of dollars to wear that black Nike cap with the white Swoosh [the Swoosh and all Nike trademarks are copyright the Nike Corporation.
They could almost make a "shopping" function in a game. Lets say you're playing NBA Live 2002 or something, and you see some new Nike sneaker that is (somewhat) "featured" in the game. Pause it, click on the shopping button, and then click on the player's sneaker. The game minimizes, and a webpage pops up with the Nike Online store, with full descriptions and information on the sneaker. Then you're only one click away from purchasing it.
It all makes PERFECT sense, but I always have to remind myself that corporations rarely do what makes sense.
I can set cl_noads "1" in whatever game, I don't care.
As long as the adds aren't shoved in front of your face, and they're used tastefully this prospect isn't that bad.
:(
Of course I wouldn't want to be playing a medieval rpg and see a 'coke' billboard on a castle wall or something similar, but I seriously doubt a top notch developer would let that type of thing happen anyway.
The only concern I have is with advertising to children. Children are very susceptible to TV advertising, and would probably be even more so to in-game advertising where the obvious barriers between content and advertising don't exist like they do with other mediums. Unfortunatly this would probably be the main demographic area advertisers would like to work with.
Also who wants to bet that the advertisers will have the programmers make whole game a spyware program so that they can target you more efficiently as well as get whatever personal information off your computer that they can sell to others?
Kevin Hodapp
Whoever wrote this comment either is joking (I hope) or is the biggest loser. Wesley Willis is a certifiable schizophrenic who lived on the streets for a lot of his adult life. He is on medication that makes him able to deal with life reasonably but gives him all sorts of other problems. This person on the other hand most likely will live out his entire life in troll obscurity with only his lame comments to boast about
This is not a Sig.
Anyone else noticed that?
In the japanese edition you could buy Coca Cola, sprite and fanta on those vending machines (or what they're called). In the english version they had changed it to some other, probably imaginary, brand. I wonder why?
Either, 3Cs said: Hey, you can't do that without paying us!
Or, Shenmue people said: Hey, you won't pay us for that? Ok, then we're taking it out.
For good or bad (perhaps mosly bad) they are a part of the eighties too, and someone creating such a realistic atmosphere as in Shenmue, they should consider such things...
And do you remember Zool on the Amiga? One of those mediocre platform games that was hyped to be the sonic/mario for the Amiga. It didn't become that of course, but it was sponsored by Chupa Chups. That wasn't nearly as natural.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
For this to be successful, it will need to directly benefit the consumer in one wayor another. This could be in the form of lower prices, or better products; however, if all this does is serve to give game developers more money, it will quickly and brutally fail. The reason ads are tolerated is because they provide the consumer a tangible benefit. Radio is free, because of advertising, cable TV is significantly lower in cost, because of advertising. If the consumer (us) doesn't see any real benefit from being bombarded by corporate logos and slogans, he'll be quick to dismiss the aforementioned in exchange for a product with no ads.
I hope.
The One,
The Only,
--The Kid
the liberator who destroyed my property has realigned my perception
www.quantumheresy.com
parallels can be drawn to tv and the free viewing in exchange for advertising...by the same idea, and since consumers will definitely be looking at the logo's, I think that cheaper, aye, even free games are not out of the question. From the article, however, the game producers don't seem to have considered that aspect...as they wouldn't have...
Who cares how much it costs? How much did Braben spend money when he made Elite? "at least ten thousand million billion bucks! OMG!"
Anyone can spend money, few can use it wisely.
Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
Well hey, if that means cheaper games for me, that's great. If it means more money for developers, hopefully more people will become interested in making games, and that's great, too. Worst comes to worst, the gaming industry will expand. A lot of crappy games might come with it, but increased availability industry-wide is a good thing for everyone!
The advertising in video games has changed, and will continue to change. Back in the old days of Atari 2600, there was a game called Kool-Aid Man. I happen to have the cart and on the cart, it says "(c) 1983 GENERAL FOODS CORP". So I guess this was the General Foods Corporation's way of advertising Kool-Aid to kids through video games. The next game that came to mind was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 for NES. Back then, I was just simply amazed that they were able to put the Pizza Hut logo in an 8 bit game.
But now fast foward to present day where video games are put on CD's and DVD's. These mediums are able to hold much more than a cart(even a N64 cart). So There is more space for advertising. What kind of advertising? The kind you see on TV. Yep, the regular 30 second commercials. I hope I never see the day that we are forced to watch 30 to 60 second ads for soft drinks, soap, cars, electronics, credit cards... in order to advance to the next level of a game.
I don't own a PS or PS2, but I do have a N64 and the only game I have that has any advertising is 1080 Snowboarding. It has the Tommy Hilfiger logo plastered everywhere in the game. I don't mind though. It's better than waiting a minute before each race.
"the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached to it." - Grandpa Simpson
Product placement? Fine.
Billboards? Fine.
But sports games already try to mimic the TV experience (probably because game players watch more than they play); they could argue that fully fledged commercial breaks "added to the realism"...
While today's game adverts may consist of a character having a Coke or walking past a sign on the street, we children of the 8-bit ages had the Yo! Noid, 7up Spot and McKids games from back in the day. Those were PURE ads disguised as games. Many of them had about the same amount of playability as those "Punch the Monkey" banner ads. This is nothing new, folks. Nothing to be alarmed about.
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"Five is right out."
I'm all up for it, as long as I get a copy of the game for free. Programmers bitch because their games get pirated, so they toss in ads to make up for losses, what about those that did buy the game and don't want to see cigarrette ads in the game. Frankly, I smoke enough, and the last thing I want to do when I'm playing a game is to see an ad and be jolted and run out, grab a pizza and a budlight and a new pack of cigs because the game I was playing had em' sloshed in everywhere.
I just saw your domain, and I was wondering about it: how you were going to expand on it, are the images allowed to be used elsewhere, etc., and couldn't find your email or anything on the site at all... This is completely off-topic of whatever is being discussed here, and my apologies; in fact, I have no clue what is being discussed here (a search for Nehelenia put your message on the results list), I'll most likely never come back (although I found the page's slogan amusing) I just wanted to get a message to you, and would REALLY appreciate an answer... please???
sailorpsychosis@itookmyprozac.com
P.S. This goes w/o saying, but... excellent work you've done on the site!