Slashdot Mirror

Here is the message that I've sent to David Cameron this evening,. If anyone else feels strongly about this and wishes to use my text, please feel free. You can reach him here.

Dear Mr Cameron,

I have read reports in the international press this evening, citing Ecuador's Foreign Minister, that the UK is considering entering the London Embassy of Ecuador without Ecuador's permission in order to arrest Mr Julian Assange, who is seeking refuge there.

I strongly urge the UK not to take this action, which would be a violation of Article 22 of the Vienna Convention. It would set an ugly precedent that would not be lost on other countries. Historically, the UK has valued the rule of law. When the UK contravenes international law, it sends a very unfortunate message to other countries who do not value the rule of law. That message is: "you, too, can ride roughshod over international law".

If the UK enters the Embassy of Ecuador without permission I predict that other countries will use this chilling precedent to do likewise, perhaps against a UK embassy.

Please seek a peaceful agreement with Ecuador.

The UK petitions aren't really that bad, this is the list sorted by how many signatures they got:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/list/closed?sort=signers

The most popular is scrapping the vehicle tracking/road pricing scheme, which AFAIK has now been scrapped.

If 4chan is the "first, last, and best lines of defense for freedom" then we're already fucked. Thankfully there are other more conventional measures, like the elections here in May that got rid of ID cards, contact point database, gave us a review of anti-terror legislation & RIPA and the hope of a Great repeal\freedom bill. No 4chan involved, just voters.
And where the legislature has failed, the courts are currently taking a look New types of protest\action are good, but the old ways still work as well.

"Today. however, anyone can throw together a website with an email form that sends directly to a particular email address"
sure, but it takes more effort than to go and buy a stamp, doesn't it.

And then you have to find voters who are bothered enough to use the said website.

If voters are using the site it's because it represents them better than the MP does.

This MP is trying to ignore voters who already have had to go to great lengths to be heard - double fail to the MP!

I'm not sure that's true. If you make the barrier to participation low enough and the consequences sufficiently remote then people will happily support almost anything, despite having no knowledge or real interest - look at some of the petitions on Facebook for example, or the official petitions on http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ the petitions about the Red Arrows and Student Loans, for example, have been endorsed by hundreds of thousands of people despite the fact that they are based on misunderstandings and incorrect information. The people who signed those petitions were not interested enough to actually do any reading about the issue at stake, to research it or form their own opinion; they simply clicked, because it didn't cost them anything to do so.

The petitions website is a harmless example of what I would call "pointless participation" - participation that is meaningless because it doesn't reflect any actual interest or desire on the part of the voter. Sites that send emails are very different; the user types in his or her name, perhaps a brief message, and then the site sends it to the MP. Just like the petitions, many of these sites are trumpeting a cause that exists only in the mind of the creator, or that is of no real consequence to the vast majority of people; and yet people fill in their name and click send because it costs them nothing to do it. The MP, as a result, is inundated with messages that do not necessarily reflect any real commitment or interest; the number of emails is out of proportion to any real support that there might be, and the MP ends up missing real messages that reflect real interests.

The MP's action is, I think, overly extreme - a modified spam filter would probably allow him to whittle the tide of emails down to a manageable "petition" format. But I'm not sure that I disagree with his thinking. Writing a letter costs time and money - not very much of either, but a little bit: 15 minutes of your time and a total of about 50p for materials and a stamp. Are there really issues that are important enough that they should be the focus of our MPs' attention, but not worth a couple of pounds?

He has an obligation to read his e-mail, nuisance mails or not. What he needs is a techie to write a filter that adds up repeat e-mails and only sends him one that aggregates all those received in a day/week/year, etc. because it's the number of e-mails that counts. It's like petitioning, but 38 degrees aren't collecting the signatories but just passing them on straight away to the MP, well that is annoying for the MP, it's not his job. Besides, there's not much point in the 38 degrees site, if you want to lobby government, they have their own site for doing it http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/

Cool. Maybe it'll get as much attention from those at the top as this.

"we will introduce a Freedom Bill to restore the civil liberties that are so precious to the British character"

And, as always, grammar nazism has its place. In choosing "that" rather than "which", the writer has not meant:

• Restore civil liberties because civil liberties are so precious to the British people,

i.e. the classical liberty of freedom of expression (deployed as speech, assembly, photography etc., all coming under the same principle); instead quite specifically aiming to:

• Restore only those civil liberties which are somehow identified as "precious" to the British people.

This has further degenerated to:

• Consider those civil liberties which a small unrepresentative set of Internet lurkers with too much time on their hands (who may not even be eligible British voters) want to babble about.

And, if current LD coalition behaviour is a model for future LD behaviour, this will become:

• Selectively pick and reinterpret, proposing instead a compromise which no majority wants.

If a man with a history of duplicity offers you something which appears too good to be true, you do not say, "Where do I sign?" Instead you ask yourself, "How is he trying to trick me this time?"

(For a model of past effectiveness, see the Number 10 e-petitions scheme: to reinforce the government's will where in agreement, and to be ignored otherwise.)

Exactly. We don't believe for a minute they're going to repeal any laws worth repealing so let's just mock them.

For more examples see the petitions site: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/

In this context, "Proposed" means someone's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.

Seeing as there's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything, this doesn't really mean a great deal. Some petitions which have been submitted include:

Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head.

Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect

Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children

In this context, "Proposed" means someone's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.

Seeing as there's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything, this doesn't really mean a great deal. Some petitions which have been submitted include:

Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head.

Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect

Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children

In this context, "Proposed" means someone's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.

Seeing as there's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything, this doesn't really mean a great deal. Some petitions which have been submitted include:

Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head.

Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect

Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children

If you search the Number 10 website for 'Repair', it does not show up (prove me wrong, someone!)

I submitted:
http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page281
and
http://www.mi6.gov.uk/output/sis-home-welcome.html

http://search.petitions.number10.gov.uk/kbroker/number10/petitions/search.lsim?ha=1157&sr=0&sf=&qt=scanners&go=Go&nh=10&cs=&sc=number10&oq=scanner&sb=0&mt=0

I am amazed that so many people are willing to vote for X-Factor and who should be no1 in the Christmas charts but will not vote for who runs the UK!

That's like totally horrifying.

At least protest for a something worthwhile - e.g. against clause 11 of the "Digital Economy Bill"http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldbills/001/10001.13-19.html Essentially gives Lord Mandelson complete control of what is published on Internet and unrivalled power and "interpretation" of copyright law.

You can join petitions here: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/list/open?cat=758

Then again Simon Cowell wants to "X-Factor" politics http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236002/The-Politics-Factor-Simon-Cowell-unveils-plan-launch-election-debate-show.html This mentality scares the crap out of me!

Everyone who thinks this is a bad idea should sign this government petition, get everyone they know to sign the petition, and generally cause a ruckus
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/dontdisconnectus/

Then install Tor, because you have to look out for yourself when you don't live in a democracy any more.

Sign please!
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/dontdisconnectus/

If you're in the UK and you want to show politicians you're against this, feel free to sign a petition saying so. Thank you.

Hopefully this will motivate the courts and Parliament to do something about the problem of people coming to our country and using our courts to solve their petty grievances due to our ridiculous libel laws. The wikipedia article on libel tourism is particularly good in this regard. A lawyer on Newsnight (available on iplayer) last night listed the example of a Ukrainian business man who was suing a Ukrainian website for libel in the British courts under the justification that there happened to be some people in the UK who can read Ukrainian. This sort of stuff has simply got to stop. To help, sign the petition on the the no.10 website and the website 38 degrees is also running a campaign.

If any UK citizens wish to protest this, feel free to take a look at my petition to legalise filesharing. Thanks.

I'm well aware that the government pick and choose which petitions to respond to and I'm no New Labour supporter. One difference is that many other petitions would or could hurt the government's image and perhaps require more debate than a petition can provide (e.g. "impose sanctions on Isreal").
Read the comment I was replying to again. If some PR drone thought that, well then that's actually democracy at work.
Just becuase many of the things the government do aren't democratic, it doesn't mean that they can't do democratic things. Look at what happened - 1: the petition was raised, 2: many people signed it, 3: the government responded and in this case with compliance.

I don't for a minute think that the online petitions thing is much other than a chance to give people the 'impression' that we can get involved in desicion making. But the comment I was replying to was nothing other than pointless cynicism, when wouldn't something like this seem like point scoring to the op? I'm guessing never.

the number of times that considerably better-supported petitions have been ignored

Assuming "considerably better-supported" means twice as many votes. Only two closed petitions haven't had a response. Of all closed petitions with more votes, 7 haven't had a response - see the proof for yourself.

If you're concerned about copyright and live in the UK, please take a look at my petition. Thanks!

Yes, you're right, no one elected Gordon Brown to power... Oh wait, yes they did:

(Results for the 2005 Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath parliamentry elections)

I do believe those are the results for electing him to his constituency, not voting for him to be Prime Minister (which is what the GP was alluding to.)

Technically, no UK prime minister is elected by the electorate to be prime minister - it's other members of his party who do that, however the closest to the public voting for them tends to be a general election where the whole of the country votes, of which Mr Brown has yet to endure. He had a chance late 2007 when rumours were rife that one would be held but he/his advisors backed out of that one.

If his party retains a majority in the election in May(? latest it can be held is June 3rd), it could (tentatively) be said that he had been elected by the general populace, but not until then.

Another measure of 'popularity' could be certain No. 10 e-petitions.

One calling for him to resign:

• http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/
• Signatures: 70,458

An opposing one calling for him to stay:

• http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NOT-resign/
• Signatures: 60

Of course, these tend to be self-selecting, but they're just as valid (i.e. not very) than saying that Mr Brown has been elected by the whole of the UK, when the only reason he's there is because he was elected in his constituancy, and a group of his mates who were likewise elected 3-4 years put him there.

Yes, you're right, no one elected Gordon Brown to power... Oh wait, yes they did:

(Results for the 2005 Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath parliamentry elections)

I do believe those are the results for electing him to his constituency, not voting for him to be Prime Minister (which is what the GP was alluding to.)

Technically, no UK prime minister is elected by the electorate to be prime minister - it's other members of his party who do that, however the closest to the public voting for them tends to be a general election where the whole of the country votes, of which Mr Brown has yet to endure. He had a chance late 2007 when rumours were rife that one would be held but he/his advisors backed out of that one.

If his party retains a majority in the election in May(? latest it can be held is June 3rd), it could (tentatively) be said that he had been elected by the general populace, but not until then.

Another measure of 'popularity' could be certain No. 10 e-petitions.

One calling for him to resign:

• http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/
• Signatures: 70,458

An opposing one calling for him to stay:

• http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NOT-resign/
• Signatures: 60

Of course, these tend to be self-selecting, but they're just as valid (i.e. not very) than saying that Mr Brown has been elected by the whole of the UK, when the only reason he's there is because he was elected in his constituancy, and a group of his mates who were likewise elected 3-4 years put him there.

--- http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go --- the petition http://kalvis.com?PleaseGo.pdf --- the poster ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: 10 Downing Street Date: 2009/7/31 Subject: Your petition has been rejected To: petition@kalvis.com Hi, I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected. Your petition was classed as being in the following categories: * Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate channel Further information: We cannot accept petitions which involve individual legal cases. Individual legal cases are a matter for direct communication with the Home Office. If you wish to edit and resubmit your petition, please follow the following link: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ex-treaty/BOdqUVCfKXpvB6NOBuAUBWV You have four weeks in which to do this, after which your petition will appear in the list of rejected petitions. Your petition reads: We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to: 'end our extradition treaty with the USA.' After the abuse of the extradition treaty in the Gary McKinnon case, we petition the Prime Minister to end the extradition treaty with the USA. -- the ePetitions team

--- http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go --- the petition http://kalvis.com?PleaseGo.pdf --- the poster ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: 10 Downing Street Date: 2009/7/31 Subject: Your petition has been rejected To: petition@kalvis.com Hi, I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected. Your petition was classed as being in the following categories: * Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate channel Further information: We cannot accept petitions which involve individual legal cases. Individual legal cases are a matter for direct communication with the Home Office. If you wish to edit and resubmit your petition, please follow the following link: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ex-treaty/BOdqUVCfKXpvB6NOBuAUBWV You have four weeks in which to do this, after which your petition will appear in the list of rejected petitions. Your petition reads: We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to: 'end our extradition treaty with the USA.' After the abuse of the extradition treaty in the Gary McKinnon case, we petition the Prime Minister to end the extradition treaty with the USA. -- the ePetitions team

Actually, freedom of speech is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, 1689. However, keeping a freedom requires the populace to care about it. In Britain's case everyone's too busy hating Europeans (then going on holiday there), being paranoid about jails full of paedophiles and being scared of terrorists and KnifeCrime(tm) to worry about the finer points of freedom of speech. Obviously these two are a pair of scum bags, so no-one cares to defend them, for what it's worth I believe their freedom of speech should be guaranteed, but try telling that to the populace.

Here are a few ideas of w h o, and wh at, might be responsible for this situation. :)

The 1285 Statute of Westminster even gave the English people the right (actually it was a requirement) to bear arms, it was due to this -- and technologically 'advanced' longbows -- that we managed to trounce those ghaslty frogs at Agincourt, but that's another story.

Thankyou; that's exactly right. Your post is the least deserving of a Troll mod that I have ever seen.

The British economy is completely fucked because these cretins took our tax money and squandered it on their social engineering projects. This is another one of them. Here's an idea - instead of spending £250m of our money on broadband, why not lower some taxes? Then, we would be able to spend our own money on the things that are important to us, instead of it being spent for us. Maybe that would be broadband, maybe not.

Even the poorest working people in Britain have to pay income tax. The Government obsession with surveillance is only the most well known of the many things that are wrong here. Petition for Gordon Brown to resign.

The same organisation that campaigned for child porn to be illegal in the UK in the 70s (Mary Whitehouse's National Viewers' and Listeners' Association) today (in it's renamed form Mediawatch-UK, under John Beyer) lobbies the Government for possession of images of consenting adults to be criminalised. They supported the recent law criminalising possession of "extreme" porn, and wanted the law to cover a "much wider range", including any R18 material (which would criminalise a couple for privately filming themselves having sex). See their petition: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/obscenitylaw/

Sure, obviously there are legitimate reasons to oppose child porn but not adult porn - this is certainly true. But I think the OP had a point in that some oppose from a point of view of "all porn is bad" rather than protecting abuse, and there are lobbyists who use child porn to demonise porn in general (with the aforementioned "extreme" porn law, the Government and lobbyists repeatedly made comparisons to child porn, despite it being a law on adults).

How long till the "pentawater" people seize on this as "proof" of their unfounded claims about their bottled magic-water?

(Slightly related - UK slashdotters can sign a petition to protest OfQuack (aka CNHC) certifying unproven Supplementary, Complementary and Alternative Medicine procedures.)

There's a direct petition to the Prime Minister at the number 10 website: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/End-of-privacy/

For any Brits who want to voice an opinion I believe this is the relevant petition. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/End-of-privacy

Indeed is does.

http://www.number10.gov.uk/number-10-tv

Both Labour and the Conservatives also show video on their sites and, in the case of the conservatives, allow you to embed the videos elsewhere.

I think it would have been better if Obama stuck with YouTube but if they can't then it's unfortunate but not allowing anyone to view the video goes against the idea of the internet, imo, and it's makes it worse for those tax payers who live elsewhere.

I doubt there are that many foreigners watching the US president's weekly address. I doubt there are that many Americans watching it either.

As far as the BBC not showing all of its content, I can't see why Americans can get so upset over it. It's one site and considering how many US sites block outsiders, people within the borders of the US get to see more of the internet than others so there is no reason to whine like babies because one site has gone and done something you're doing as well.

UK citizens, get on this: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Anti-Big-Brother/

For all the good it might do:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoTermExtension/

Thanks for the info. (Works for anyone in the UK)

For all the good it might do:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoTermExtension/

Thanks for the info. (Works for anyone in the UK)

Decision?

You think this will affect any decisions then you're sadly misguided. If it's anything like the UK one - http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ - all that will happen is the government will use things that fit its agenda to claim it's doing what people want, whilst fobbing off the most popular questions/petitions with "we don't care, we're right on this regardless of what you think" put in only slightly more flowery words.

It's another exercise in government cynicism, so they can point out how much they're listening.

If you don't like this then sign the petition http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/no-to-1984/

If you oppose these plans, then do something about it. You could do worse than by visiting the No2ID cards website: http://www.no2id.net/ But, you can be even more productive and write to your MP to complain about this. Here's how you can contact your local MP: http://www.writetothem.com/ And don't forget to sign the petition opposing the governments plans to introduce an internet monitoring database: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy-matters/

I am posting a link to 2 petitions that people in Britain can sign opposing such action. Please sign it and pass it on to as many people as you can: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy-matters/ http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/edatabase/

I am posting a link to 2 petitions that people in Britain can sign opposing such action. Please sign it and pass it on to as many people as you can: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/privacy-matters/ http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/edatabase/

I'm not posting this as an Anonymous Coward - My name's Chris Kennedy. And I hope someone mods this up so that anyone who sees this news article will look at this link:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/no-to-1984/

This is a link to a petition against this proposed bill, and while it only started today, and is still small, I'm going to be progressively posting it on every single website which mentions this story. Please, if you're a UK Citizen, click through and sign this petition.

I for one am not going to settle for an erosion of my civil liberties.
"To give up any amount of Freedom, however small, in pursuit of security - Is to give up the very idea of Freedom itself." - Benjamin Franklin

There is a 10 Downing Street petition setup against this bill, if you're from the UK and feel strongly against the bill you can sign http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/no-to-1984/

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/no-to-1984/

Please sign if you're a UK citizen and are against this bill. Even if you know that it'll run millions of pounds over budget, will clog up instantly with unusable amounts of data, and cause thousands (if not millions) of false-positive terrorism hits.

'No, she doesn't drive, though she does have a license.'
That is a scary thought. You can't manage to get the licenses out of the hands of the elderly and dangerous where you are either?

Well, we had to push her really hard to get a provisional license, take lessons, and eventually pass her test in her late 40's, but it was almost impossible to get her to drive. Then when her diabetes was diagnosed she lept on it like a drowning man on a straw and turned her licence in to the authorities. For reasons that aren't too clear, once her diabetes was stabilised and well-controlled, the license was sent back (some mix up at the doctors - someone thought that she wanted her driving license back) so she's now legally permitted to drive, and I'd expect she's perfectly capable. But still she refuses to drive. Maybe we should use a cattle prod to force her?

There really should be a driven requirement every couple years for anyone over 65. Discrimination be damned, your reflexes and reaction times diminish with age.

Oh definitely - I've long supported the requirement for people in their declining years to lose their licenses and re-sit their driving tests every [debatable number] years. In fact ... yes, it's still on the government's website at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/driving-retests/#detail along with a lot of other petitions suggesting a 10-year duration for a driving license.

Oh - by the way, what age does this decline in reflexes, reaction times etc set in?
Looking at the ages of successful athletes, probably in the early 20s. So that would mean there simply isn't a question of discrimination - if you're old enough to drive a vehicle of any sort, then you're already at the peak or on the downward slope of your physical prowess, and so you must continually prove your competence.
Oh, you intended to say "everyone BUT ME is a dangerous driver, and needs to be re-tested regularly" ? I think you need to check the meaning of the word "hubris". Unless you're actually Lewis Hamilton's love child out of Michael Schumacher's sister (who herself is the unacknowledged offspring of Snr. Fangio).

That is $14.15. The average Joe here makes less than half that. That wage would be excellent for a book keeper or average for a computer technician.

Now that IS scary. It must be terrible living under the grinding boot of undiluted capitalism. Well, it must have been terrible ; with the nationalisation of the banking system etc, you're on a path to more socially acceptable living standards for the masses. You might even start to get medical treatment for the majority of your population some day.

It's probably a bad sign that to get into the top ten we only needed 10 thousand signatories.

For most of the time the petition has been live we've been equal standing in the public consciousness with Making Brucey A Sir.

Current number one is angrily demanding that an event occurs which was always going to occur anyway.

It got half a million signatures. Talk about national priorities...

It's probably a bad sign that to get into the top ten we only needed 10 thousand signatories.

For most of the time the petition has been live we've been equal standing in the public consciousness with Making Brucey A Sir.

Current number one is angrily demanding that an event occurs which was always going to occur anyway.

It got half a million signatures. Talk about national priorities...

> The British newspaper The Independent started a campaign to save Betchley Park on 20 August 2008.

On 29 May 2008 a friend started a petition on the Downing Street site to shame the Government into acting to save this element of World history. It is now the sixth largest petition on the site with over 14,000 signatures:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/

If you are a UK citizen please consider taking five minutes to sign the petition. Since it was started we have seen a lot of media interest in this topic and BP report that donations via their web site are increasing.

Credit to MK News which originally broke this story back in May.

UK citizens may want to sign this petition to the government for the standardisation of power adaptors. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/chargers/

Except that the UK patent office has been challenged over their newer policy of not granting software patents and people have had to petition to get it officially unenforceable. They even granted a patent that the government appealed.

The general angle seems to be that the Patent Office has said they won't issue them, people don't want them, and the government will contest them, yet there are still some flying around.