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I have a bias but Roma Victor has a crafting system a lot like, if not better than ATITD's and also has real-time pvp combat amongst other things. There's no subscription fee and it's been in testing since May.

...there is.

It would be interesting to see this in action in an MMORPG. Stats and levels are completely hidden, and the only knowledge of a characters ability is indirect. (I.E. - I can kill these rabbits twice as fast as last week, lets try something harder) The same would go for mobs and NPC's. You don't know how tough someone is until you take them on. Throw this into a PvP game, and it would be very interesting. No more "I'm lvl 60 and he's lvl 55. I'm gonna win" mentality.

heck, I'd play it in a heartbeat.

RV is an historically authentic PVP MMORPG with no player-visible numbers. See sig for disclaimer. :)

The reason the MMORPG is a nich genre is because nobody in their right mind is going to subscribe to more than possible two titles at a time, whereas most people wouldn't think twice about buying another FPS, even if they already own a few.

What we need is MMORPG's that don't require monthly subscription fees. There are plenty more out there if you go looking.

... has been an anathema to them and remains so to just about every other MMORPG company in the industry.

Umm, I can, think of several that are quite happy to associate in-game goods/wealth with real world money. I'm too lazy to post all the links - google it up Mr Jacobs - you're missing some important market research. ;-)

People already do stuff like that.

People like RV.

Two comments. First, there several other examples of "free" MMO games. Second, it's probably not really free, as in you will have to buy things in game to improve your user experience (like in Project Entropia).

For other examples, check out:
- Project Entropia http://www.project-entropia.com/
- Guild Wars http://www.guildwars.com/
- Roma Victor http://www.roma-victor.com/

When the MMORPG publishers realize that they can sell the virtual items with zero overhead. They can be a broker and have no acquasition costs. Some are doing this now - Second Life?

RV's entire revenue model is based around that principal.

I wish a game was open-ended where you could dabble in different areas as you went on, before deciding what to actually stick to. I want game rules like PvP that are determined by in-game repurcussions, not by hard-coded limits by the developers.

I feel (see sig) obliged to point you in the direction of this, which certainly fits that description.

The article is a bit thin on the features and details and also incorrectly indicates that Jolt is the publisher. It's an independent and largely community-driven project.

The article is a bit thin on the features and details and also incorrectly indicates that Jolt is the publisher. It's an independent and largely community-driven project.

The article is a bit thin on the features and details and also incorrectly indicates that Jolt is the publisher. It's an independent and largely community-driven project.

Saw you registered on the RV forums, Bruce. Are they gonna share their numbers when it launches?

Then check out MMORPG that has positive tester feedback and no subscriptions

What I want is an MMORPG with all the basic ingredients of an MMORG, I just want the damned experience/leveling/skill/treadmill systems and the combat systems stripped. Gut the damn MMORPG and fill its innards with a Half Life 2/FarCry/Thief style engine. Imagine if your thief character really had to sneak around like you were Garret from Thief. Imagine if swordplay was fast paced like Jedi Knight. Imagine if your archer snuck around firing and running like in FarCry. Then imagine after a hard day of fighting you could go kick it back in a bar or craft Puzzle Pirates style. Maybe for the economically inclined there could be an economic game like Rail Road Tycoon (or whatever) underneath. Perhaps there is also a A Tail in the Desert style player senate and politics. Maybe there is even a little Command and Conquer style tactical commanding

Sounds like you're looking for Roma Victor. It's historical, aimed at a more mature player, has twitch combat, politics, crafting like ATITD, no levels, and lots of resource management.

My bias is of course declared in my sig but it does sound like exactly the kind of thing you're looking for.

Roma Victor is apparently planning on avoiding subscriptions altogether. I'm really looking forward to a non-fantasy MMORPG that let's me truly pay as I go. It's not totally free, which makes sense - if it's free how long's it gonna last? What incentive to the devs have for not just wiping the database when their bills are too high? I'd much rather pick how much I pay according to how much I'm actually going to play.

For more about Prof. Bartle check his site. He knows what he's talking about and "Designing Virtual Worlds" was thoroughly informative.
It'll be interesting to see how Roma Victor turns out since he's apparently involved in that, among other things.

You ought to try RV. Best MMORPG I've tested to date.

In the area if MMORPG development, where so many projects seem to get canned after months or even years of development, I really don't think "announced" is newsworthy any more.
How about not publishing MMORPG stories until they're "finished" - at least finished enough to alpha test.
As a side benefit, we'll not have to read any of the "cancelled" stories the following year...

Well said! Roma Victor is in its later stages of development and testing, is being developed by an independent developer, relies largely on OSS (see their recent software patent protest), is community-driven and has shown no signs of going under at any point in the last few years.

Yet we're more likely to hear a story about a bunch of venture capitalists and corporate drones deciding that an already tired franchise would make a great MMORPG license, before they've even hired the development team!

Games like Warhammer Online and Dragon Empires get cancelled because of a lack of realism, expertise and experience on the behalf of the initial development team. Building a MMORPG is not the same as building an online computer game - and I expect these "Perpetual" suits will have to find that out the hard way too. But there's nothing to stop them from raising and burning millions of dollars in the process.

(I'll admit I'm an ancient history buff and therefore a fan of RV but I think my point still stands >D)

Nor will the historically authentic MMORPG, Roma Victor

The Roma Victor MMORPG project doesn't call it a beta. But they have started an equivalent.

The Roma Victor MMORPG project doesn't call it a beta. But they have started an equivalent.

Of course the growth is still to come.

The growth will come when there are MMO games that do not involve HOURS of doing nothing. Because the devs will finally realize that doing nothing is neither intresting nor excieting.

The growth will come when there are MMO games that have fun things to do that don't get repetative after 2 days, or after 2 months or after 2 years.

The growth will come when there are MMO games that have a strong community of players supporting each other.

The growth will come when there are meaningful interactions between the players. Not "I OWNZ JOO!", not "Lets group up and XP", something deeper.

The growth will come when there are MMO with massive worlds, meaningful means of transportation and player property. The growth will come when the PVP is meaningful and fun. Not something put in just so that highlevels could do "something".

There is currently no MMO that does this.

You got that right! I got all excited about SW:G but it turned out to be overhyped and unfinished. Even without the technical problems AO proved to be really limited. You could say exactly the same for WWII Online and a stack of other big names.

But I can think of a handful of real gems right on the horizon. A Tale in the Desert is a breath of fresh air (although no PvP which kinda sucks) and RV in particular addresses every single one of the thigns you mention. And you're starting to get real diversity instead of just the goblins'n'wands or aliens'n'lasers that we've had to put up with. I mean I'm still not even sure what There is supposed to be all about.

Basically I totally agree with the article. I think MMORPG's have gone through a teething period and are just about to experience big growth. The people that start something off always suffer from the fact that other people just keep coming along and improving on it.

I want my city to have indoor plumbing.

What about Roma Victor?

It's a non-subscription and non-fantasy MMORPG currently accepting testers.

But is spending 7 hours a day exploring the world of EverQuest really that productive or mind-expanding?

No, but playing something historically authentic and equally playable would certainly be more constructive than spending the time fragging terrorists or camping for the next uber-loot spawn.

According to this, which I assume is still current - he's working for RedBedlam on Roma Victor (formerly known as "Gladius Online") actually. :)

According to this, which I assume is still current - he's working for RedBedlam on Roma Victor (formerly known as "Gladius Online") actually. :)

Dr Bartle is currently working with RedBedlam on Roma Victor at the moment so I guess this means we won't be getting voice chat in RV. Just as well - RV is a historically authentic MMORPG (set in ancient Roman times) and you just know that with voice chat, the atmosphere would inevitably be ruined.

So even if some games want it, other games won't. Horses for courses.

I could see voice chat working in something like there.com but not Roma Victor

Dr Bartle is currently working with RedBedlam on Roma Victor at the moment so I guess this means we won't be getting voice chat in RV. Just as well - RV is a historically authentic MMORPG (set in ancient Roman times) and you just know that with voice chat, the atmosphere would inevitably be ruined.

So even if some games want it, other games won't. Horses for courses.

I could see voice chat working in something like there.com but not Roma Victor