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While Chartered by the Catholic Church. They are not owned by it. The church is offering their facilities, for the boy scouts, and most of the scout troop would probably be members of the church, mostly because it feels weird if you are not. But still the administration of the troop is dealt with the BSA and not the church.

I found some documentation on the role of the charted organisation, the catholic church has told us that our leaders must meet their standards in addition to the BSA standards.

ANNUAL CHARTER AGREEMENT Annually the local council enters into an agreement with the chartered organization granting them a charter. This charter enables the organization or group to use the Scouting program under adult leadership they approve of in order to accomplish its objectives and to serve the organization’s youth and families.

https://www.scouting.org/progr...

The unit is owned and run by a sponsoring group called a chartered organization. The chartered organization receives a national charter yearly to use the Scouting program as a part of its youth work. The local council helps the chartered organization understand the program, however it is the chartered organization's program and is part of the chartered organizations youth work. These groups, which have goals compatible with those of the Boy Scouts of America, include religious, educational, community groups, fraternal, business, labor, and professional associations.

Each chartered organization using the Scouting program provides a meeting place, selects a Scoutmaster, approves the unit adult leadership, appoints a unit committee of at least three adults, and chooses a chartered organization representative.

http://www.usscouts.org/aboutbsa/bsaorg.asp

This is just wrong on so many levels. BSA's ban on homosexuals was never about safety - that would just be stupid and ineffective because straight men and women have also been known to sexually abuse boys at roughly the same rate. BSA has an entirely different set of policies to deal with that. The ban on homosexuals was aimed at preventing boys from seeing homosexuality as a valid way to be. The ban, which ended for youth members in 2013 and leaders in 2015, specifically applied only to avowed homosexuals - closeted homosexuals were still perfectly welcome. The ban also applied equally to male and female leaders; a ban on homosexual female leaders would make no sense in the context you provided. And then there's the part about the ban on leaders continuing for two years after the ban on youth members ended. Bottom line, BSA didn't want Scouts to see homosexuals as role models and risk having them "turn gay" or other such nonsense. This was largely due to the influence of the Mormon church, which had an outsized presence in Scouting because they made it mandatory for all boys. They have since moved on and BSA has entered the 21st century.

The Boy Scouts of America is not a religious organization per se.

While technically true it does vary a lot by pack/troop with some being more religious than others. There still are religious requirements that need to be fulfilled but they aren't tied to any specific religion. For example the one I did with my oldest for his current cub scout rank was the "duty to god footsteps". We went to the large Buddhist temple nearby and he got to learn about their religion. He ended up telling the other scouts in his den about it and I was asked why I brought him there instead of to a christian church as this seemed completely foreign to most of the other parents (mostly Catholic and Presbyterian). My response, entirely truthful, was that I felt it was important that he learn about different religions that he otherwise would not be exposed to and learn to respect them. I do think that some of the other leaders and adults suspect that I may be one of those evil atheists/agnostics but as I don't advertise it or be a dick about it no one seems to care. I do run the NOVA and Super NOVA program in the pack, am one of the 2 range officers, and assistant den leader

I don't think it is a lack of mental capacity it is just so many people never learned what is the correct way to handle them and their knowledge of guns comes mostly from TV. Then again I grew up in a family with strong rural roots so learning how to properly handle, operate, and store firearms was something we just grew up with, as well as how to drive a tractor, split wood, use a chain saw, milk the goats, deal with an unruly rooster, all as a child. My middle school even had a lunchtime activity of firearm safety where you could go and get your firearm safety certificate. Even bringing up requiring the most basic level (and yes getting the firearm safety certificate is the most basic level) of training and people shit themselves. Personally I would prefer a more in depth training like that found in the BSA's Rifle or Shotgun shooting merit badges but even the simplistic firearms safety certificate would be welcomed. But people still bitch because it might prevent someone from owning a firearm, even though the above mentioned items are meant for children to have a good chance with some practice and a bit effort to pass.

I don't think it is a lack of mental capacity it is just so many people never learned what is the correct way to handle them and their knowledge of guns comes mostly from TV. Then again I grew up in a family with strong rural roots so learning how to properly handle, operate, and store firearms was something we just grew up with, as well as how to drive a tractor, split wood, use a chain saw, milk the goats, deal with an unruly rooster, all as a child. My middle school even had a lunchtime activity of firearm safety where you could go and get your firearm safety certificate. Even bringing up requiring the most basic level (and yes getting the firearm safety certificate is the most basic level) of training and people shit themselves. Personally I would prefer a more in depth training like that found in the BSA's Rifle or Shotgun shooting merit badges but even the simplistic firearms safety certificate would be welcomed. But people still bitch because it might prevent someone from owning a firearm, even though the above mentioned items are meant for children to have a good chance with some practice and a bit effort to pass.

I think you may be a bit wrong with your "many gun owners are against at least making sure that new gun owners are made to learn to shoot before being allowed to own guns" statement. I have found it to be the case with the people who I know to be the exact opposite. The people I hunt with and myself really wish more people had to have at least the most basic training in how to handle a firearm. Of all of the firearm training that I have done even something as simple and trivial as the basic firearm safety course offered by the MN DNR would be a vast improvement over nothing. When it comes to what I would actually want for training I always go to the most extensive training I had which was the BSA shotgun and rifle merit badges. Granted these aren't the be all end all of training but are very good starter courses for shooting.

I think you may be a bit wrong with your "many gun owners are against at least making sure that new gun owners are made to learn to shoot before being allowed to own guns" statement. I have found it to be the case with the people who I know to be the exact opposite. The people I hunt with and myself really wish more people had to have at least the most basic training in how to handle a firearm. Of all of the firearm training that I have done even something as simple and trivial as the basic firearm safety course offered by the MN DNR would be a vast improvement over nothing. When it comes to what I would actually want for training I always go to the most extensive training I had which was the BSA shotgun and rifle merit badges. Granted these aren't the be all end all of training but are very good starter courses for shooting.

Unfortunately you are correct. There are far too many negligent firearm owners. I would also like to see better training for firearm ownership, even if it does end up being like drivers ed in the US it would be better. Personally I would prefer training more akin to the BSA shotgun or rifle merit badges but even something like hunter firearm safety certificate, even if it is lacking compared to the BSA merit badges, is better than the current nothing that is the status quo. I say this as a firearm owner who owns a few long guns and a side arm and keeps them locked up in a very nice heavy fireproof safe that is bolted into the poured concrete floor and poured concrete wall in my basement.

Unfortunately you are correct. There are far too many negligent firearm owners. I would also like to see better training for firearm ownership, even if it does end up being like drivers ed in the US it would be better. Personally I would prefer training more akin to the BSA shotgun or rifle merit badges but even something like hunter firearm safety certificate, even if it is lacking compared to the BSA merit badges, is better than the current nothing that is the status quo. I say this as a firearm owner who owns a few long guns and a side arm and keeps them locked up in a very nice heavy fireproof safe that is bolted into the poured concrete floor and poured concrete wall in my basement.

I just want the same reasonable restrictions that as you say, government puts on driving cars, because guns are dangerous.

Careful with that reasoning it may not lead to where you think it will. For example as a private citizen I can legally own any type of vehicle I can afford or build myself while the types of firearms I could own are limited to a subset of those available or ones I could build similar to those available for sale. There is also the whole issue of licenses, registration, or training to own a firearm. Again here it may not work out how one would think. I can own any vehicle I want and neither I nor the vehicle needs to be licensed, registered, or have any proof that I am competent to operate it so long as it remains on private property or not used on public property. Now in my state if I want to use a firearm on public property I either need to have a CCW permit and be carrying only a hand gun or be out hunting with the appropriate hunting license and firearm acceptable for the game I am after. To get a hunting license in Minnesota if you were born on or after Jan 1, 1979 you need have gone through the basic hunter safety course which does have a meager shooting proficiency requirement that is sadly about as good as the standard driving proficiency test given to 16 year olds. The shooting proficiency for the CCW is fairly comparable and a rather sad joke as well. What we find is that firearms are already as or more regulated than vehicles.

Personally I would prefer that everyone who wants a firearm go through a real training course that offers a rather exhaustive training with stringent requirements. The best example I have experience with would be the BAS Shotgun or Rifle merit badges. Having also gone through hunter safety and the CCW classes they were a joke by comparison to those merit badges that were taught by a retired US Marine (picture R. Lee Ermey and you aren't far off). I would imagine that the US military also does an even more comprehensive training less the game hunting aspects so that would be acceptable to me as well. Problem no one wants to talk about that kind of regulation.

I just want the same reasonable restrictions that as you say, government puts on driving cars, because guns are dangerous.

Careful with that reasoning it may not lead to where you think it will. For example as a private citizen I can legally own any type of vehicle I can afford or build myself while the types of firearms I could own are limited to a subset of those available or ones I could build similar to those available for sale. There is also the whole issue of licenses, registration, or training to own a firearm. Again here it may not work out how one would think. I can own any vehicle I want and neither I nor the vehicle needs to be licensed, registered, or have any proof that I am competent to operate it so long as it remains on private property or not used on public property. Now in my state if I want to use a firearm on public property I either need to have a CCW permit and be carrying only a hand gun or be out hunting with the appropriate hunting license and firearm acceptable for the game I am after. To get a hunting license in Minnesota if you were born on or after Jan 1, 1979 you need have gone through the basic hunter safety course which does have a meager shooting proficiency requirement that is sadly about as good as the standard driving proficiency test given to 16 year olds. The shooting proficiency for the CCW is fairly comparable and a rather sad joke as well. What we find is that firearms are already as or more regulated than vehicles.

Personally I would prefer that everyone who wants a firearm go through a real training course that offers a rather exhaustive training with stringent requirements. The best example I have experience with would be the BAS Shotgun or Rifle merit badges. Having also gone through hunter safety and the CCW classes they were a joke by comparison to those merit badges that were taught by a retired US Marine (picture R. Lee Ermey and you aren't far off). I would imagine that the US military also does an even more comprehensive training less the game hunting aspects so that would be acceptable to me as well. Problem no one wants to talk about that kind of regulation.

This a thousand times. In the US we live in a society that has lots of firearms so the genie is out of the bottle on that one. What we need is compulsory education on them just like we do for vehicles. In my high school everyone had to take the drivers ed course where everyone learned the rules of the road and hopefully enough to get their learners permit. We need the same thing for firearms. Hopefully this would accomplish two thing, the first being fewer stupid people doing stupid things with firearms, and the other might be fewer people who are absolutely terrified by the mere existence of firearms.

As far as training goes the following models are all good with the first 3 being among the best:
The basic firearm safety
Hunter education course (same as above but also focuses on hunting)
The BSA shotgun or rifle merit badges.
A state carry permit course (not impressed with these compared to the other options)

This a thousand times. In the US we live in a society that has lots of firearms so the genie is out of the bottle on that one. What we need is compulsory education on them just like we do for vehicles. In my high school everyone had to take the drivers ed course where everyone learned the rules of the road and hopefully enough to get their learners permit. We need the same thing for firearms. Hopefully this would accomplish two thing, the first being fewer stupid people doing stupid things with firearms, and the other might be fewer people who are absolutely terrified by the mere existence of firearms.

As far as training goes the following models are all good with the first 3 being among the best:
The basic firearm safety
Hunter education course (same as above but also focuses on hunting)
The BSA shotgun or rifle merit badges.
A state carry permit course (not impressed with these compared to the other options)

Exactly.

I'm involved in a Venture program emphasizing STEM careers. A major focus of our program is "thinking like an engineer". We want the kids to realize that everything complicated is just a collection of simpler parts (until you get small enough), and those simpler parts are generally designed by humans, so there's no good reason why they can't be the ones designing in the future.

Females can join the BSA at 14 - Venturing is Co-Ed - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx
Scouting supports more than non-christian groups - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/awards/religiousawards/chart.aspx

Disagree with the politics, but don't distort the facts.

Females can join the BSA at 14 - Venturing is Co-Ed - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx
Scouting supports more than non-christian groups - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/awards/religiousawards/chart.aspx

Disagree with the politics, but don't distort the facts.

"I don't think that word means what you think it means".
Since when is protecting your trademarked name bullying?

Ever since they claimed "scouts" was their trademark when in fact it is not.

Here is a listing of all of their actual real trademarks that begin with the letters "SC":
â Scoutfitter®
â Scout Gearâ
â Scouting®
â Scouting USA®
â Scoutmaster®
â Scoutnet®
â Scout Shop®
â Scout Stuff®

Here is a listing of all their trademarks beginning with the letter "H" (as in hack/hacking):

(Yes this list is empty, because they do not have any trademarks beginning with the letter "H" what so ever)

It's simply business.

OK, in that case I am now informing you I have a trademark on the word "David_Hart"
Since you agree it's only business, you agree I must defend that mark or lose it, and you agree I don't actually need to have that trademark in the first place... I guess you have no choice but to license it from me!

The law forces organizations to do this or they lose their right to their own name. Like the Boy Scouts or not, the problem here is the law.

Darn. I was going to license you my trademark of "David_Hart" for $0.0001 per year, and not require payment until the total is equal to or greater than a penny.
The law says I can do that and not have to worry about you making my mark generic
The law also says the only danger is the mark becoming Generic, or causing confusion within your business category.

Also quite worrying, the BSA does list the trademark:
â Boy Scoutâ

But the USPTO shows "boyscout" being registered to a completely different group (In Russia no less)
Neither "boy scout" (with the space) nor either form of "boy scoutS" (with the S on the end) show as registered.

Looking up one of the other trademarks the BSA does have registered, shows their business scope to be:
IC 036. US 100 101 102. G & S: Charitable fundraising services, namely, the solicitation and management of donations to benefit an organization for youth.

So yea...

I'm sure it could possibly be argued that "hacker scouts" solicits donations, possibly even for charitable services, and as long as one person under the age of 18 has ever shown up, you can throw in the whole "organization for youth" on them as well.
But I don't think it's quite that black and white.

But since they have no marks on "hacker scouts", "hacker", or "scouts", it's pretty moot.

The BSA self-claimed marks are at:
http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Protecting%20the%20Brand/Boy%20Scouts%20of%20America%20Trademark%20Listing.aspx

USPTO lookup is session based so I can't give a permlink, but
http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/
Go to "trademark search" on the left, then "basic word search" (first option)
"boyscout" is an interesting lookup, belonging to a Russian company.
"boy scout" with the space will pull up the BSA company record, and you can work backwards from there.

What are you even TALKING about?

"Since the 1970s scouts have to pass both a one on one review of personal morality with an adult leader and a community board of review"
This is simply wrong or a lie. There is a requirement for a scoutmaster review, and an adults-group board of review at each rank level. These are opportunities to review the scout's role in the troop, how he's getting along with the other scouts, and if he's remembering/maintaining basic elements of the scout law/motto/oath in his daily life outside of scouts - like doing a good turn daily, etc. I would hardly call this a "review of personal morality" except insofar as the scouts HAVE a code of conduct and a core set of beliefs.... NOTHING has anything to do with Mormonism or funny underwear or polygamy or whatever the hell you think is the 'secret' bit. The board of review is some dads talking with the boy, spot-reviewing the skills and such that the boy had to learn to get the rank (to make sure he's at least somewhat internalized them), and just chatting with the boy to find out 'how it's going'.

"rejecting the Unitarian religious emblem badge on doctrinal grounds and barring Wiccans from membership entirely"
Duty to God medal: there is an optional medal a scout can pursue called "Duty to God" as Scouting takes very seriously that the scouts have SOME sort of 'higher belief'. Contrary to your screed, there is NO doctrinal affiliation encouraged or suggested; a scout says "I'd like to do the Duty to God medal" performs the requirements, and gets the specific medal for his faith. You'd have to be a complete nutter to look at the COMPREHENSIVE list of religious badges available http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-879_WB.pdf and conclude "aha, Mormon conspiracy!"...completely setting aside that there IS, in fact a religious award for "Unitarian Universalist" - would that be Unitarian? They have a website, if that helps, JUST for Unitarian Universalist scouts http://www.uuscouters.org/.

As far as "Wiccans not allowed" that's a complete lie. If you had done any research, you'd find that these religious emblem programs were STARTED in conjunction with the Church and the Scouts. The BSA doesn't design the programs. Without a formal Wiccan church, there's no such program. You'll also notice there's no Mithraic medal, Norse mythos medal, nor FSM medal. *HOWEVER* at the local troop level, if a scout has a faith that he would like to pursue the Medal on, I'd be willing to bet MOST thoughtful troop leaders would work with the scout to figure out a way to make such a program possible. The Wiccan scouts that were ejected from a scout program (to which I'm sure you're referring) were part of a local CHURCH troop, which was uncomfortable with the boys' affiliation. I certainly wouldn't have handled it that way, but our troop is sponsored by a Lions Club, not a church.

I know it's hard to believe, but Boy Scout organizations are neither homogenous nor perfect. They're made up of humans, with all the foibles and weaknesses inherent thereto. That troop leader was simply wrong in his whole approach. (shrug). I guess it's easy to paint a whole organization with the mistakes of a few, if that's really what you WANT to do.

The "Traditional Scouting" movement you refer to is a sort of internal movement that's common to many 100-year-old organizations - some people like the expansion into citizenship and such, some want to get back to the 'classic skill set' of building fires and camping. Pretty common tension in big organizations, in my view.

Um, you seem to be mixing a lot of different things together without really understanding how Scouting works. Separating out merit badges and service projects, there's nothing preventing the use of technology in service projects and there are already many merit badges relating to technology. The use of applicable technology to achieve an objective is very much a part of Scouting today. What isn't common is the use of technology for the sake of using technology. Scouting uses the outdoors to develop leadership, teamwork, and problem solving skills, so skills relating to the outdoors make sense as a foundation. Anything else is fair game for merit badges, guest speakers, field trips, workshops, etc., but you can't expect it to displace the core focus of the program. If you want to get involved, take a look at the current merit badge requirements and register as a counselor for the applicable badge(s). If you have a plan that covers multiple badges (like, say, computers, electronics, and electricity), you could probably get some interest from local troops to hold regular sessions to work through the requirements.

As an Eagle Scout myself, I know I learned many fundamentals of electronics, radio communication, metal working and even helped build a hero robot as a troop project. Really there is everything from wilderness survival (which is what pops into most peoples mind) and basket weaving, but in all if there is a topic, there is a badge where you can learn the basics as a child.

do I support the activities mentioned in the article? yes, but its amusing because its already there ...other than buy a 500 3d printer from us cause your kid needs to know something that will become a toaster in 20 years, but drafting and cad, which are useful skills are already a badge

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-DRAF.aspx

guess where I learned how to do it first?

However where I live they don't let asian immigrants (or humans of any race) in unless they're part of the judeo-christian tradition.
christian asian immigrant = OK, buddhist or free = No.

I don't believe you. Buddhists have been in Boy Scouts since 1920. I can't speak for the troops near you, but I knew Asian immigrants in scouts. If they really are blocking Asian immigrants, then it should be reported to the national organization, who will no doubt put an end to it.

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs/Buddhist.aspx
http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/02-209.pdf

However where I live they don't let asian immigrants (or humans of any race) in unless they're part of the judeo-christian tradition.
christian asian immigrant = OK, buddhist or free = No.

I don't believe you. Buddhists have been in Boy Scouts since 1920. I can't speak for the troops near you, but I knew Asian immigrants in scouts. If they really are blocking Asian immigrants, then it should be reported to the national organization, who will no doubt put an end to it.

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs/Buddhist.aspx
http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/02-209.pdf

Of course, you leave out Business, Animal Science, Aviation, Chemistry, Computer Science, Dentistry and Veterinary Med to name JUST a few...

And all the people involved with those fields...

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/~/link.aspx?_id=6D5B316F02B3436D81212CBAE95A3617&_z=z

Just for Aviation. One of the badge requirements states: "Find out about three career opportunities in aviation. Pick one and find out the education, training, and experience required for this profession. Discuss this with your counselor, and explain why this profession might interest you."

Yeah... JUST like counting beach sand... But if you want to just focus on Basketry and Fishing to prove your point, you're welcome to it... Your loss (and your child's).

The intersection of Boy Scouts and Harvard-bound gentlemen back in the day was probably reasonably high.

Perhaps in spirit. However, the BSA was founded February 8, 1910. Unless, of course, you meant something different by "back in the day" than the logical antecedent (ie. 1869).

But Wikipedia isn't strictly accurate either. Buddhism is an accepted "religion" within scouting but is also nontheistic.

...Yeah, if shotgun shooting and Rifle shooting are currently badges that you can earn, I'm not thinking they would have a problem with shooting games.

*SIGH*

Firstly, the quote in the summary about banning FPSs is from someone completely unaffiliated with BSA.

Secondly, the requirement in this pin tells the cub scout to play age appropriate games, as rated by the ESRB and determined by parents. Nothing prevents them from playing an age appropriate shooter, such as Deer Hunter, or Nerf N-Strike.

Thirdly, the shooting-sports merit badges emphasise safety and responsibility. There is no relation to the vast majority of FPSs.

Fourth, this is cub scouts, younger than boy scouts. They are only allowed to shoot BB guns at scouting events. As well, this is a cub scout pin, not a boy scout merit badge.

What they should have a problem with is (as merit badges for Boy Scouts) is video games in general. This new badge will go straight to the top of the list of badges I DON'T want my son to "earn" as a Boy Scout (along side Sculpture, Theater, Cinematography, Computers).

Why not? They still teach skills that are applicable outside the confines of the activity itself. I taught basket weaving at a summer camp, and the biggest benefit I think the scouts learned was patience. Without patience, your basket looks like crap.

You would be doing your son a disservice if you prohibited him from completing a merit badge simply because it was not an outdoor activity. Perhaps a better method would be to encourage as many outdoorsmanship skills as possible, but what practical purpose would preventing your son from earning Computers or Pottery serve? Wouldn't he be more likely to utilize Computers after completion than Indian Lore?

...Yeah, if shotgun shooting and Rifle shooting are currently badges that you can earn, I'm not thinking they would have a problem with shooting games.

*SIGH*

Firstly, the quote in the summary about banning FPSs is from someone completely unaffiliated with BSA.

Secondly, the requirement in this pin tells the cub scout to play age appropriate games, as rated by the ESRB and determined by parents. Nothing prevents them from playing an age appropriate shooter, such as Deer Hunter, or Nerf N-Strike.

Thirdly, the shooting-sports merit badges emphasise safety and responsibility. There is no relation to the vast majority of FPSs.

Fourth, this is cub scouts, younger than boy scouts. They are only allowed to shoot BB guns at scouting events. As well, this is a cub scout pin, not a boy scout merit badge.

What they should have a problem with is (as merit badges for Boy Scouts) is video games in general. This new badge will go straight to the top of the list of badges I DON'T want my son to "earn" as a Boy Scout (along side Sculpture, Theater, Cinematography, Computers).

Why not? They still teach skills that are applicable outside the confines of the activity itself. I taught basket weaving at a summer camp, and the biggest benefit I think the scouts learned was patience. Without patience, your basket looks like crap.

You would be doing your son a disservice if you prohibited him from completing a merit badge simply because it was not an outdoor activity. Perhaps a better method would be to encourage as many outdoorsmanship skills as possible, but what practical purpose would preventing your son from earning Computers or Pottery serve? Wouldn't he be more likely to utilize Computers after completion than Indian Lore?

...Yeah, if shotgun shooting and Rifle shooting are currently badges that you can earn, I'm not thinking they would have a problem with shooting games.

What they should have a problem with is (as merit badges for Boy Scouts) is video games in general. This new badge will go straight to the top of the list of badges I DON'T want my son to "earn" as a Boy Scout (along side Sculpture, Theater, Cinematography, Computers).

...Yeah, if shotgun shooting and Rifle shooting are currently badges that you can earn, I'm not thinking they would have a problem with shooting games.

What they should have a problem with is (as merit badges for Boy Scouts) is video games in general. This new badge will go straight to the top of the list of badges I DON'T want my son to "earn" as a Boy Scout (along side Sculpture, Theater, Cinematography, Computers).

Excuse me, it's exactly the same thing.

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/ScoutingFacts.aspx

Same organization, different age group.

I think we should merge boy and girl scouts to just have 'scouts'. Canada does that and it works fine, but in the US? Hell no, they might see each others parts in the group shower, and that would just be the end of the world.

You must not have heard about Venture. Not only is it a branch of the BSA that allows boys and girls, they do all the cool stuff. Long backpacking trips, high adventure, stuff like that. My sister did it and had a blast.

Cub scouts really is a crock, as is Girl scouts. My ex was a girl scout, and their merit badges were like sandwich making, how to keep a kitchen clean, knitting, needlepoint, parenting. Not even kidding.

Cub scouts is intended for kids younger than 12. How much do you really expect from them?

While I'd generally agree that girl scouts isn't as comprehensive or stringent as teh BSA, part of that is just because there's less distinction between the equivalents to cubs and scouts. Was your ex in the program very young, and completing the equivalent of cub awards? Most of their awards look similar to BSA merit badges. Seems reasonable to me.

I'm not advocating anything, but learning to properly operate weapons can be both a difficult endeavor and possibly useful out in the wilderness. It requires patience, an amount of full body control, and (if presented correctly) a respect for the dangerous force of machines.

Learning the basics of an FPS does none of this.


Also, we're talking about cub scouts here (approx. age 7-10). Cub scouts are limited to Archery and BB gun shooting with trained supervisors present. Only boy scouts (teenagers) are allowed to operate firearms.

No first person shooters? Are the scouts aware that they actually offer a merit badge in SHOOTING.

I'm the last person to depend Scouting (they've really gone off the deep end in recent years), but I should at least point out that the Rifle Shooting merit badge significantly emphasizes gun safety and appropriate use. I remember my own experiences from scout camp as a kid where they were hyper-vigilant about safety, only using guns for target practice, and so on. Again, I'm not defending Scouting in general or guns in particular, but there is a big difference between learning how to shoot targets with a rifle (with a high emphasis placed on safety and understanding of the dangers) and shooting up aliens in a first-person shooter.

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they're not playing first-person shooter games, violent games, games with a lot of sexual or drug content.

So in other words, as long as they aren't fun games

You need to learn the difference between Fox's "commentary" and the Real World. Out in the Real World, nothing in the requirements for the award says they can't play FPSs.

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/CubScouts/Awards/Boys/sanda/video_games.aspx

The scout master was livid, but I never returned.

Makes sense, especially if he didn't know you where you were. Losing children who have been entrusted to you in the woods is a Very Bad Thing.

Yeah, it's all speculation I suppose, but it does tend towards a similarity in the Catholic church events: an older man is alone with younger boys, and we all remember ancient Greece and Rome.

Of course, BSA recognizes this and has a program called Youth Protection to prevent just such abuses. The issue is the people at varying levels who skirt this policy, often for the same concerns as the Catholic church (bad PR and embarassment if it is revealed), or for failing to do enough to ensure safety for the boys.

Having participated in the BSA both as a scout and an adult, I can tell you this issue as at the forefront of nearly everyone's mind. I can see, though, where the BSA has room to improve the system and make it easier and simpler to report and prevent these abuses.

Here's the releavant parts:

Scout Oath (or Promise)
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country

Scout Law
REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

I think they just hate security.

If you browse to https://opensource.scouting.org/docs/ then Firefox 3 tells you they are using an invalid certificate.

Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

They call it Citizenship in the World.

Your local chapter might be different, but at the top of the organization, it's clear as day, they don't even bother trying to hide it.

http://www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/2002/resolution.aspx

The counterfeiters may not care, but it will deter businesses from patronizing them. By adding difficult-to-copy markings and telling the world about it, Microsoft lets businesses know those counterfeit "Microsoft" DVDs won't help a bit if they're audited by the BSA (not to be confused with the Boy Scouts of America ). Disgruntled (ex)employees will know about the counterfeit copies of Vista, and will gladly report license violations to even the score with their antagonists.

Definitely.

- Zippo. (+extra fuel and flints)
- Wax dipped wooden matches
- Camp stove (the little foldable ones that use the white pellet fuel - available at Canadian tire)
- Metal pot/dish to cook in and eat from
- Fork or Spoon.
- Swiss Army Knife/Leatherman
- Water purification filter/pellets if clean fresh water will not be available in the region, or if contamination is not biological (i.e. boiling won't fix it)
- A mini first aid kit.
- A good loud whistle
- air mattress / thermarest
- Wool socks + full change of clothes
- Dehydrated meals
- Pint of Whiskey / Vodka
- DEET / Cigarettes / Cigars to deter biting insects
- Bag to carry all garbage out in

- VHF radio in case med-evac required. (FRS/walkie-talkies for within the group)

That just about covers it.

iPod? MacBook? Stay home if that is what you are after.

And of course... Leave no Trace.

They're sending in the Boy Scouts of America? Now I really feel threatened. Oh, wait, I own more licenses for Windows(3.1/3.11/95/95OSR2/NT4 Server/98/98SE/XP Home/Vista Ultimate Beta2 & RC1) then I have in use? Man, I love Linux. Saves me from them scouts! Note: I do have two comps running XP Home, one running Vista RC1, three running 3.11, two running 98SE, and one running 95OSR2. And I really do have the Certificates of Authenticity listed above, more then I have in use.

because we all know what would happen if they started with the big ones.

Microsoft would use tanks and heavy artillery instead of just the BSA - Boy Scouts of America?

Actually, these councils and troops who do come out anti gay and making you be a Christian (NOT a national policy by any means) are not actually following the TRUE scouting principles. Making anti gay remarks or remarks against any person is not good scouting behavior. The only thing that the scout law asks of scouts is that they put their religion at a high level of importance....whatever it is. You CAN say they ask that you believe in god.....not the Christian God, the Jew God or Allah....GOD. The only people who may have an issue is atheists and your post advertises this well. Atheists, Gay Scouts and others should not be turned away. Also, as I am a leader now, there's NO WHERE on the form where it asks your sexual orientation. It does ask that you make a commitment to a religious faith and anything concerning religion in the scouts is non sectarian. Also, as the BSA is also a part of World Scouting, there's no rule in the BSA that states you MUST be a Christian. They just ask that you hold a religious belief. Don't believe me? Read the leadership application: http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-501D.pdf

BSA gets a bad rap because of some councils that have some ass hats running them.

This article is inaccurate. A Council (local office) of the BSA cannot create their own Merit Badge. This is some local program to educate the Scouts, but whatever award they earn is not "official", and would not help them earn a rank advancement or anything like that.

Here is a list of the current Merit Badges, along with the requirements to earn each one.

If you are so inclined, consider volunteering at your local Council as a "Merit Badge Counselor". If you have expertise in a particular area covered by a Merit Badge, you may be a counselor. A scout may not earn a badge unless a counselor verifies that the scout has completed all of the requirements. So if a scout cannot find a counselor for a particular badge, they have no way of earning it.

For more information, see this training page, this guide and the application form.

Also for the comment about a merit badge for 'learning how to think'. That is really the whole point of scouting - to give young men the skills they need for adulthood, including thinking.

The BSA (ironic acronym matching a possibly more wholesome organization, n'est-ce pas?)

The motorcyle people?

I'm 99.99% positive he's referring to this BSA.

(Insert snarky "what did you expect on an American website" comment here.)

The BSA (ironic acronym matching a possibly more wholesome organization, n'est-ce pas?) is a ....

http://www.scouting.org/

Check out the one with the pirate getup waving a cutlass on their homepage.